Adivce, Marriage and Collectivity

Chelsham Road Ashram, London (England)



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“Marriage and Collectivity”, advice at Chelsham Rd. London (UK), 5 December 1980.

….Marriage where you marry and next day you are running away with another man. It should be genuinely done. That means you must respect but genuineness should be there, there should be no deception nothing. You are partners for life.
Now one more point I want to tell you, that always I have seen in Sahaja Yoga marriages fail on one point, which is very important, is the point where collectivity clashes. When there is a clash of collectivity, Sahaja Yoga marriages fail. Now you are marrying under Sahaja Yoga you are not marrying in a way that others marry. And that’s why one must understand that collectivity comes first. But you must love each other, you must understand each other, be sweet to each other, be kind, considerate, be conscious and aware that you have a wife or a husband. But first thing is collectivity.

Now I have specially given presents to Jane and to Linda because they have produced two Sahaja Yogis of a very high value. In the same way I am going to give you presents when you do that. But, but this is a beginning from the child that you develop you must learn (?)…it’s not that my child, my husband, my house what should I do about this house, my house, my children, my house, my children. You have got a child to expand, the love that you get for your child or feel for your child you should feel for all others. You have to be mothers of all the children not of your own child. For both of them, especially, I have to say they have to be collective very much more than they are today. That’s the first thing; they should expand themselves. Nobody can have respect for any woman who is not like that. You have to be just like a mother to everyone.

The second point is that there are certain systems, which are built in, in a society where marriages become conditioning. And one of them is a very handy and a good system. The system is like this that the wife becomes the mother and even the brothers of the husband are mostly with the wife, with the bhabi, who’s the sister in law. So they go and tell all their problems because they can’t face their elder brother directly. So they go and tell the sister in law. Then sister-in-law, in her own clever way, tells the husband and gets the permission. And this relationship has to be established when you are married. When you are married say there’s a sister-in-law who is younger who is not married she doesn’t understand about love and things. If she has a problem say she’s going to get married or anything she will not consult her mother she’ll not come and consult me but she’ll consult her sister-in-law. It is a very sweet relationship that exists between the brother-in-law and the sister-in-law is a very, very sweet relationship and all the time they joke and laugh and they are one. With the mother you have certain limitations; it’s a little formal with the mother. But with the sister-in-law it is such a blessing to have somebody slightly older than you with whom you can say, and that person goes and tells. I would say Chaya has been doing that very well and I am very happy with her. Give her a hand. (Applause)

But she has to keep her husband also pleased. If she does not get her husband pleased, if he is not easily pleased, still he should be made to be pleased. May be the most difficult man. It is the art of the woman, is the beauty of the woman, how she manages her husband. Because she is there for that kind of a job. And if she cannot do that, then she is failing in that part. So she has to do both the things; you have to strike a balance between the two. Sometimes the husband wants that he should have the company; all right, give him the company as much as possible. But you should also know that unless and until your husband gives you the authority, you are no one with others because it is he who has given you the authority to talk to others. If he says no you have to be with me all the time, then you cannot say no. He has a right to have your company. So one must understand and strike a balance. Do not do anything to the extremes. We have to be very normal people. This is the second point I wanted to tell you.

The third point, very important for all the parents who have children, Sahaja Yoga children have to be extremely well disciplined. If you do not know how to discipline your children, you are sadly mistaken. Your children must know how to behave themselves; they must know how to answer, how much they must talk. Do not spoil them with presents; give them presents at the right time. And tell them how they should behave. You have to discipline your children. This is your duty to discipline them; it is the time they should be disciplined. The condition here is that people don’t say anything to their children. They don’t even scold them; they don’t even teach them anything. And by the time they are sixteen, seventeen the children are absolutely like vagabonds. And they have no sense; they have no sense of despair. They answer you back. No child should be allowed to answer the parents back. If they answer back, give them two slaps. That’s allowed. Teach them to be respectful. If you do not teach them, they’ll be disrespectful to other people, and other people will smack them. Then you won’t like it. But they have every right to smack if a child misbehaves, because children must know how to behave themselves. If they do not know behavior, you have to teach them; that is your duty.

But here everybody wants to shirk the responsibility. Want to shirk it. It’s really easy to love your children and not say anything. Let them go up to sixteen and then throw them into the winds. No, you have to be extremely strict with your children when they are growing up. The grand parents can spoil them not you. You are not their grandparents; you are parents. You have to discipline them; you have to tell them how to behave, how to. And sit down with them for one hour and talk to them, not in the presence of others. Tell them that you are like queens and kings. Put self esteem in them so they behave themselves and they learn how to go above. If they do not do that, means you have unnecessarily produced a problem for yourself and others. It is necessary, if necessary. I’ve never beaten my children, and I don’t like to. But if you don’t know how to teach them and how to control them, you may use sometimes a slap, doesn’t matter for boys especially once in a while doesn’t matter. If they don’t understand, what to do? So you have to discipline.

You see, discipline is one thing lacking in western countries. Children don’t know how to behave, how to be respectful. And they misbehave and they will start tomorrow answering you back and ill treating you. And now the whole society is (aware?) It is very important. No use spoiling your children. Here they will see something on the TV you get it back for them. No. You must tell, no, what you want is not what the TV tells you but what you need is this and keep it. If they break the toys and all that, tell them that if you are breaking toys you are not going to get any. Keep them, properly arrange them; let them organize. This is how you train. I’ve seen My grand children. They have got things that I bought for them when they were little babies, still just the same, kept very carefully. Who has given them what, what is where; they know everything not like a mess of toys, plastic toys that you give them. Give them few toys but know where they are. Where are they? Give them the list. Ask them to keep a list to understand.

Respect, respect is the thing; we do not respect our possessions we just indulge in them. Do we respect? We throw our cloths here and there. That’s why the children are born when they grow up they have no discipline; they throw all their cloths here untidiness then you shout at them. Another habit the children must form is to get up early in the morning. The parents must get up in the morning; give them bath; get them ready; give them tea. If the children do not do that, it is because of the parents do not discipline them. And also the parents must be ideal about it. If the parents do not have that, then the children are not going to. So the whole responsibility of spoiling the children resides with the parents and no one else. Even Sahaja Yogis should not spoil the children. I can spoil because I am the Grandma. You must take your responsibility. I did not spoil My children. You have to tell your children ’til they are sixteen years of age. Everything that is good, righteous, how to behave and how to live you have to tell. Otherwise they become vagabonds and they, you see, they take the whole thing upon themselves. They think, oh we can do what ever they want, “What’s wrong”, “What’s wrong”. If they say, “What’s wrong” don’t give them money. Don’t spoil them. Make them starve one night; they will be all right next day

Let them do the work. Of course you should never pay for children’s work. If they work then they are working for themselves It is a very bad habit to pay them for doing some work. They are not laborers. All this training must be given. That’s a very good training because our social side is very weak. You do not know how to discipline. Too much interest in children is also not allowed. That all the time run after your children, do this for your children. It’s all right. Because once they know they are dominating you they will sit on your heads. They should know where they stand with you. Gradually they will learn and behave. See children are still not human beings. Either you make them human beings or you make them devils. It is in your hands; they are raw. You should not be unkind by any chance. But you should not be in any way dominated by them. It is not the parents who should take instructions from their children. In Sahaja Yoga it is necessary to understand parenting.

So up to the as you said that you must have children and don’t hurry up. That’s very true. Think it over properly and then have children. When you have a proper place to live in, and all that, then have children. Will be a good idea. Now as far as the ashram is concerned, I would suggest that as the present position is, keep it up till I come back. Do not change anything. As it is Linda is managing her affairs as far as the money is concerned. What ever is her charges she paid that. Let Chaya handle the money and everything and puja because she knows that. You also all learn from her; she can teach you something about Hindi and all that.

The most important thing is that Sahaja Yoga is not a cult. You have to be absolutely normal people. Don’t have to behave, like in the ears you put in five pounds of cotton and walk about. You should look very normal people. Do not behave in a manner that you look absurd. You see, maybe, some people told me they do it because they want to show off they are different. This is not punk rocks here. We are not punk rock. You have to be very normal, balanced, good people, respecting our elders, very normal people. Nothing abnormal should be done. And that is the person who is the most normal is the person who is the real Sahaja Yogi. Because you normalize by Sahaja Yoga all abnormal things. (Child crying) She is feeling cold and stomach pain…is there a fire? Just put some fire. This is what it is to be done about Sahaj Yoga. That in Ashram you have to have ideal way of life.

You have Linda here she is very good and also Peter Pierce is a very good man no doubt. But he goes off because of certain problems he has had before. See? So you can beat him with shoes, not directly, indirectly, and also Linda and also Chaya, if you want. Or like this anybody who is doing anything in the ashram is all right. But as far as possible elders should not be beaten with shoes. You can ask somebody older then them to beat them with shoes. But I am sure gradually they will all become responsible, sensible, and respectable. If they do not if they are not respectable how can people respect you? And lastly I have to tell you that Linda was telling me that she is feeling very different. Now the reason is (child crying: can you take her out. She is very hot I think or cold whatever) the problem is this way. Now I am going away physically and that’s why you are depressed. You think Mummy, Mother is going away. (Child crying: What happened? Why? Come along. What is there to cry? Yes you are going to break it for everyone like that. I don’t know, how do you break it? Show me. Show me.)

Now I would suggest that the whole thing comes up because you think, physically, I am going to India. And that’s why you are disturbed. And you are thinking that Mother is going so what will happen? If something happens to me who will cure me? Or something goes wrong what will happen? Now you are grown up children, you are not that small. And I am not gone; I am much more here when I am not here. You will see. So now you should decide one thing that Mother is gone doesn’t matter. We are going to show Her something special. By the time She comes back, She is going to see what we can do. What we have done in Sahaja Yoga, how we have become normal good people, and how we are getting other people to Sahaja Yoga. By Gods grace now so many things have happened that about Sahaja Yoga now it might be published in seven hundred papers already. It is all done through Gods grace only. But you have to desire and it will work out.

So first of all improve yourself; improve your collectivity. Try to be nice to each other. We are human beings. We are not donkeys or dogs. But we are not only human beings; we are Sahaja Yogis, we are saints. So develop that dignity, and that love, and that understanding, that etiquette, etiquette of a divine person, that sweetness, that gentleness of a divine person. Of course that does not mean that men should walk like women. You see I’ve told it correctly. If I said gentlemen, then gents would start behaving like women. Or if I say you have to be come manly, the women become manly and the rest (?). It always goes the other way round. Ladies should try to be more ladylike. They have to be more ladylike and men have to be manly. Like just now I said that you have to follow the man that has to be. It looks decent, you see, for a man to be ahead of you, and the woman to be behind; she is the shakti. She is the shakti behind the husband. And she need not walk in front and show off and argue with him and put him down and put his hand like that and all that. She should not do. Doesn’t, its not graceful. It is disgraceful to behave like that. And then only with understanding and love we have good children.

And that my wife says so, this is a very wrong idea. I mean, some people are that if the wife says go to the north, they’ll go to the north. They say go to the south, they’ll go to the south. I mean that should not be so. It doesn’t look nice. One should behave in a way that a man is. And let him, let them be men, and you have to be women. To be a woman is a very big thing. Your mother is a woman. You know how great it is to be a woman. It’s very great to be a woman because women have such powers. We have really by competing with men, we have finished ourselves completely. So the two roles of men and woman is like the, I would say, the flower and the fragrance. Which is higher flower or the fragrance? If there is no flower, there is no fragrance. But without fragrance what is a flower? Or a beauty? It is so much inseparable fragrance and beauty and flower. In the same way the flower shows, but who is the beauty, and who is the fragrance is the wife. That is how it should be. And then only people will respect you and your husband. And it is going to be much more easy. That’s the way it works out very easy. If it is other way round it will never work so let it be worked out this way.

And there is nothing like domination who can dominate your spirit? Nobody can dominate your spirit. But it is an adjustment because in the society the man has to do all the outside work. And he is the kinetic person and you are the potential energy. So the woman has to listen to man, because she preserves her energy much more by that. And there is nothing like domination. Nobody can dominate you. On the contrary there is such domination on the man that he just can’t exist without you. He comes back home straight from the work, that’s how you should control your husband. Control of love, as I control you with love, you should control with love. It is a question of how much you love, how gracious you are, how beautiful you are. Next time I come I’m sure I’m going to meet great ladies and gentlemen, which I expected in England. And we are going to be on that level, very nice dignified, sweet, very serene and not frivolous. Frivolousness is a very big curse, you see, should not be frivolous. Neither you should be so serious that everybody gets bored of you. But you should be in the centre. You must talk little more those who do not talk. Those who talk too much should talk little less. So normalize yourself. Now any questions please ask me because today is the last day and I am going tomorrow morning at 8 o’clock from my house and I don’t want to trouble you.

All those who are coming to India; there are some things I am taking for the Sahaja Yogis. So Malcolm you come along with me. I’ll show you all the things I brought and I’ll mark them. And Christine my cloths are there also in one of the boxes, two boxes, one small, one big. Are you taking too many things with you? Very few things? So then it’s all right you can take them and you can bring them back if you like later on the same boxes if you have to carry things. So this is what it is. Don’t carry too many things to India. Because I know you will be overloaded there things are so much cheaper and better. But whatever things you carry you must know they should be elegant, because in India if you do not have elegant dresses, they are never impressed by you. For example hippie dress they don’t like. They should be elegant but it should not be dandy either like a bow tie and a red coat. That is also not good. In the centre, wear decent dresses and they prefer suits or combination or something as an English man dresses. They are shocked, you see, to see hippies walking with a small little loin cloth or something, it is too much. So you should not also shock them or come with translucent dresses. You see? They can’t bear all that. You see, you should be decently dressed. And if you want you can take your saris from here or you can buy some nice saris there. What ever you want they will be very helpful.

Those who are coming last time you know how much they spent money on you. On everything they paid for your taxis, for your food, and lots of things. I mean they did such a lot of expense. About 50 thousand they spent last time. You can imagine, they are poor people there, you are affluent. And before that nobody paid not a single pie was paid by any Sahaja Yogi who went to India. They just had everything free. Nobody paid for anything before. It was all right. Why? Because they wanted they have a gesture of great generosity and they don’t mind it. But I think it’s not proper. Even today you see they telephoned to Me the other day they said “let them come, what is there? We will look after them. Why should they pay.” It’s not proper because they are not rich people.

So we have calculated and we have come to the conclusion that, those who are going there, should pay 151 pounds as soon as they come there. And they have to pay it to me and then I’ll pay it to them wherever they want. And if there is more money needed they will provide it. So 151 pounds directly you have to pay the day you come. Nobody who does not have that money should not come because it is very embarrassing. Only my bank balance is going down. I don’t mind, but it’s not good. We have done that before. The people who have gone before can say that, that all the expense and everything was borne by them. It’s not good and you know. You must spend your money you must that’s not proper that’s not good. Even one person came from South Africa and he paid for his food and everything, even one person. We did not pay for him. While so many people went there and they paid for food, stay everything they did. It’s not good that has happened so we have to be very generous.

I think we have got sufficient things for them not more than that will not be required,
photographs, I was saying, and tapes and all those things. Have you made the list of things? (man speaking “yes, we made the list we will distribute to everyone who goes there. We have a few names. Who is taking the photograph album being prepared by?”) Only one photograph album you will take? You have to at least give two of them, one more. Why should one person give it? All of you put together should give it. There should be not such a thing. All of you should provide for it. Have two photographs, at least two minimum you should have. So that one can leave in Maharashtra and one can leave in anywhere someplace…(?)There should be two. And tapes should be also two. (Man speaking I don’t know yet how many there are) We can afford to pay that, there’s no problem, as it is God has saved your money for the gifts. Peter was telling that he got it much cheaper for this. It’s very surprising you see and I am really surprised how you’ve done it in such a short time. It’s very nice. It’s really we would not have done it in our house. It’s remarkable. Only the one who knows what it is can understand. It’s a tremendous work. Give a hand. (applause)

Now any more questions? I am going now. You must take, all of you must take, addresses of Bombay and Delhi people. Two, three, four numbers you must take. (Man talking inaudible) I mean I’ll see the situation as it is. But in any case I have purchased it. So you put on glass and everything. I’ve packed it very well. Tape recorders we have got and we have got also watches. There are five watches.

Ah children thank you very much. What is that? Ah good, good, beautiful, beautiful. From you? What? I’m very happy. You just sent me a card that’s all.
(lady says It’s the Merchant of Venice to read on the train)
(Shri Mataji talking to attendants about luggage and food)

Lady speaking : Mother would you please send all our love to the Indian Sahaja Yogis that I so wish I was going again.

I will. I will tell them, all your best wishes everything, all your love

Lady: I wish I was with them

(Shri Mataji talks in Hindi)

All of them come along. I should just tell them we are going to look after them, tour lots of places, this Ganeshwar they can stay. Then poor Modi wrote to me: Mother you have to live with the nature there, there’s no bathroom nothing.

Man speaking, “Warren also wrote specially to say that he has prepared all the Australians and they won’t have problems with the Indian living conditions.”

No it’s not going to be that bad like that. See we’ve got all these gurus also the idea of ashrams has been spoilt. When you go there you’ve got an air-conditioned room with a big bathroom attached where you can sleep the whole day. But it is not like that. You have to learn to be detached and little self sufficient. Not to depend on other things to give you comfort but your own spirit should give you comfort. Now I can tell you neither my spirit nor my body (?).
So what is it? Flowers. How are you? (Lady: I am very well thank you) The children are so much all right now. (Lady: Yes very much) Not you, you are perfectly all right. She’s a very normal person. You have to be normal. Very good

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi