Public Program, Heart, Vishuddhi, Agnya, Sahastrara

New Delhi (India)


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Public Program, New Delhi (India) 9 February 1981.

I talked to you about the Void in our body, which is called as Bhavasagara [Hindi], Bhavasagara in our Sahaja Yoga language.

Today we have to understand the other chakras, which are above the Bhavasagara.

Last time I told you how by following wrong gurus and spoiling your Guru principle you get problems in your stomach.

Also your extreme behavior towards religion, your fanaticism, creates problems which may go up to something like cancer.

Also, the another extreme behavior of people who become very dry by their over-activity on the right side and have no feelings for the family and neglect the family, have no relationship with their wives of a normal nature, also may develop problems of the stomach.

This chakra I didn’t talk to you before, about the speedometer within us, which is the Nabhi.

I think I did mention something about it. This is one of the most important chakras within us and I think, before going over to other chakras, I must say that how our spleen gets spoilt and how we get into problems like blood cancer, which is a very common disease today in the West and is also invading our country, with such a speed [Hindi].

This is a – I didn’t talk to you about it but I have talked about this to other people.

Now this spleen is the one which creates blood cells for our emergencies. Any emergency comes in, it has to produce new blood cells to fight the emergency or to face the emergency or to solve the problems of the emergency.

In the modern times, we have lost the idea of controlling our speed. We talk telescopically, we walk telescopically, we arrive at a point so telescopically that the point is left behind before we arrive.

Now this spleen is the one, when you are eating your food, is also producing blood corpuscles to fight or, you can say, to digest the food. At the same time if you are listening to some horrid news and horrible emergencies that suddenly come up, or if you are reading newspapers, or if you are running away to your office, this is a very common thing with government servants that they have no time for their breakfast. They will take one hour in the bathroom and in five minutes, they want to finish their breakfast. All such persons face the problem of getting into some sort of a complication of the spleen because when you eat your food, and suddenly try to run, the poor spleen has to go with a double speed to cope up with your additional activities.

It used to be a style in olden days that all the people would sit for food very comfortably and the food was served with great care and everybody was given sufficient time to eat the food. And there would be a lady to fan the gentleman who would keep the pace of the man’s eating process at a proper level, and the food would be eaten with little leisure.

But nowadays I find that people have no sense that we are human beings and we are not machines.

In Delhi, I feel the schools are really very cruel people. I find even in this winter season the children have to go to school at 6.30 or 6 o’clock in the morning. And somebody must bring some legal procedure against these schools. Is absolutely essential, your children are going to be in great difficulties if you do not pay attention to this fact.

To get up early in the morning at that time, then walk in the cold season, take your bath, many people take their bath, also with hot water, and then suddenly go out in that cold, take your breakfast just in a standing manner, in a very rushing manner, the mother is running with a bottle in the hand, and pouring the milk for the child, and the child is somehow or other trying to gulp it down and taking a bread in the hand and rushing about. This is even worse than military, I can tell you.

For such small children who are growing, it is essential that they must have their breakfast when they are quite in tune with the atmosphere, not at the early in the morning at 6:30 to get up and rush them with their breakfast is something extremely cruel that we are doing to our children.

This will not only spoil their Vishuddhi – according to, I think modern people, Vishuddhi trouble is to be accepted all the time, means all cold, coughs, and all that is a part of life, you can’t complain about it, somehow it has to go hand in hand with you. They do not want to find solutions for that.

People might say in olden days, people used to get up at 4 o’clock, all right, they would. But they never used to get out of their houses so fast. And the style of life was very different in those days. People had very good food to eat, they had things full of vitamins, and the pressures on their lives were much -, much less.

As it is we have no time to pay any attention to our children. On top of that, the way we hurry them up is so dangerous, that I don’t know, I have never known that children go so early in Delhi, which is so freezingly cold, so early and come back home at about 2:30 in the afternoon.

To come back at 2:30 in the afternoon, after eating that hurried meal at home, or whatever you may call a breakfast or whatever you may call it, so called, and then come back at 2:30 and what are they going to eat? There is timing for everything.

The food digestion takes about three hours and children feel hungry. As it is there is no food and this is how about five and a half hours, you keep them away in the schools without any food for what? What knowledge are you giving to your children? What is the special knowledge you are giving to your children?

What is such a great thing that the world has achieved by having these institutions of education, so called? First of all you are creating children who will be very sick. It is not going to give them longevity.

Secondly, the way the people rush about for their work. In the morning time, there is no need to rush about. If you can get up early in the morning, sleep early and get up in the morning, take your time and eat your breakfast properly and go to office, have something in the afternoon, and then in the evening, you’ll be amazed, you will get over fifty percent of your sicknesses. Because at the right time, if you give a proper practice to your stomach, you get your juices oozing out at the right time. You don’t make your stomach crazy by that.

But, by this kind of emergency all the time arising, listening to horrible things at the time when you are eating your food or doing something important, your spleen goes crazy.

It does not know. It loses its power to produce proper blood cells. It does not know how to produce it, it really becomes crazy and in that craziness, it starts producing blood cells at odd hours, wrong hours, it does not know when to produce, it is always in emergency, it is never stationed in its normal state.

At this stage, if there is an attack from your collective subconscious area, about which now doctors are now talking in England, that there is an attack of some proteins unknown to them, they call them as protein 58 and all that, you are very much prone to get blood cancer.

Moreover, if your attention is too much on the left or the right to the extreme, you are even more prone. For example, you are a planner, you plan morning till evening, so your attention is more on the future. That means your attention is on the right-hand side. It’s like a cloth you can say, the attention in the stomach, is protruding to the right or to the left.

Now, if your attention is too much on the right, means you are planning all the time, as I told you, doctors may not accept it, but is a fact that when you think too much and plan too much, your Nabhi or your Swadisthana Chakra is converting the fat cells for the use of the brain.

At that time, if you put more pressure into it, by over-activity of the right-hand side, which is your kriya shakti, it happens that you may enter into it to such an extent that at that time, if you have any such problem, you are easy to get some problem with your liver because it is on the right-hand side; and the poor liver suffers, you get cyrrosis of the liver or just like cancer of the liver.

Now, in Sahaja Yoga, what happens really is this, your attention is spread like a cloth, and when the Kundalini rises, She pushes your attention upward and the attention is a sheath around the Kundalini. When She pierces the Brahmarandhra, then your attention starts oozing out into the Supreme or what we call the Super Consciousness, which is here spread, into the sukshma, into the subtle consciousness.

Your whole attention is pulled up there and that is how you cure your blood cancer, your liver cancer, and all the cancer that is connected with this kind of attention.

Not only cancer but many other diseases, like kidney trouble, liver trouble and all other – we can say diabetes, intestinal troubles, and even you might get relief to your diaphragm, sometimes which is very much in tension with people who are agitated all the time.

Those people who think they are important, I think are really not aware of what importance they have to themselves.

We must understand our own esteem, and we must know that we are human beings, and that we are very important to God if not to anybody else.

As human beings, we have to also realize that we have come on this earth from amoeba stage to this stage, and God has worked so hard for us that we have no business to go on slashing ourselves into absolutely ridiculous sick people who are no good for God and no good for anyone whatsoever.

Now, this attention is, how it is diverted from this to that, can be seen that when people are very much right-handed or ego-oriented, as we call it, they try to take their attention away from their ego.

Actually those people who are very ego-oriented always take to some kind of intoxication because they just can’t sleep in the night. Their attention so much is in the future that they cannot sleep. By sleep, they might go into the left side. So they have to drink a lot. They will have more alcohols than normal people do. They’ll have drugs or they’ll have some sort of a thing, ultimately they have to take sleeping pills, without sleeping pills they cannot sleep.

The reason is, the attention in the man is so disturbed, and he does not know how to give it a proper chance to lead a normal existence that this attention is always thinking, thinking, thinking like mad and he does not know how to stop that thinking.

In Sahaja Yoga, it happens automatically because your attention goes beyond thinking. You develop your thoughtless awareness without any difficulties, but you do not establish it. You have to establish your thoughtless awareness and for that, you have to work it out. And that working out takes little time.

If people can really work it out properly, they can never get into these troubles. On the contrary, even if they may not be doctors, or may not be physicians, they may be able to cure other people who have this problem.

But in Sahaja Yoga, you must know that it’s a new knowledge for you. It was a secret knowledge before this, very much a secret.

Of course, I must say Kabirdas and Guru Nanak and Adi Shankaracharya and all these people talked of Kundalini.

Gyaneshwara talked of Kundalini and he said that this is this and this is that. But they did not give a full detailed idea about Sahaj Yog because it was useless to tell them all about it when they were not realized.

But they did inform because they knew that this time was going to come when they will be told about it and if they had not said about this, they would have come up and said that, “From where are you getting word Kundalini? It is not written anywhere.”

Because as I told yesterday in My lecture that people have more faith in My photograph that than in Myself.

Human beings are so funny that they believe into something that is printed than what is said.

Just now, I’m saying something to you. I’m standing before you. But when I’m in the present, you do not want to accept Me.

But if I have said something, and is printed, you’ll say, “Yes.”

I’ve seen also people who have My tapes, they believe into My tapes than into My speeches when I’m speaking to them.

It’s most surprising how a human mind rushes off to the past or to the future. This is a human nature which is always going out, and it is the attention which is going out because of a particular problem within human beings.

Now that problem I just cannot discuss because I need little drawings for that which we don’t have. But I have got in some of My speeches I’ve explained, why the attention of man goes out – because of his prismatic nature of his brain.

But that prismatic nature and the, I should say, the dual density of his brain creates a problem, by which the attention of man goes out.

Now the attention [of] the man has to be sucked in.

If I tell you, you pay attention to Me, you can. If I tell these children, “Pay attention to Me”, they may for a while, but again they’ll start playing. So, if I tell them that “pay attention to Me”, they will see Me and they’ll start paying attention to Me.

But if I say, “Pay attention to yourself”, you cannot pay. You may say that, “All right, we are praying inside, we are doing antar yoga, this that” – is all a myth, it’s not there. When the attention is inside, you are in the present, you don’t think, you are in the present.

When the attention is outside, then either you are on the left side or the right side, by which you are paying attention to your past or to the future.

All your thoughts are coming from the past and from the future. At this present moment, there is no thought. But this, to stop this, is very difficult. To say now, you cannot do that.

There’s a space in between, which is called Vilamba, which is achieved through Kundalini awakening, it passes through the left and right side of ego and superego, and in the center you achieve your thoughtless awareness.

Now, this process of Kundalini rising upward can be hampered at a [level] – another chakra which is at the heart level, in the center in the spinal cord. It is expressed outside in the sternum and we can say that till the boy or the girl is about twelve years of age, from the sternum the anti-bodies are created, they go in the whole body and spread there and fight the diseases.

Now, these anti-bodies, in Sahaja Yoga language, are the armies of the Jagadamba, of Durga, of the Mother of this world. She resides in this center according to Sahaja Yoga language.

But it may be that people will not believe into it, “How can that be that Durga resides there?”

Somebody told Me it’s not written in the book.

I said, “Thank God, it is not written.”

Otherwise you would have never understood it and you would have a mess of everything, as you have done it of whatever was written has been made into a rigmarole.

So now, this Goddess is in this center.

When this center is out of gear, first of all your anti-bodies are reduced. There are so many medicines which reduce your anti-bodies. But people take it because it gives them a little relief for the time being.

But they become then prone to other diseases because if the anti-bodies are reduced, then you cannot find [may Shri Mataji mean “fight”?] the other, other diseases and the strength is reduced. Now, in all our medicines, we forget that we are a complete being, we are not just a physical being, but emotional being, and also a mental being, and above all, a spiritual being.

Now when we forget this, we are only worried about the physical side of it. And when our physical side is in trouble, we want to do everything under the sun; but we do not know by doing that we are spoiling our emotional side. By spoiling our emotional side, it can be very dangerous, that medicines, which reduce the anti-bodies in the body, can lead you to madness, ultimately.

First they give you giddiness, must you sleep a lot, and after that too much sleeping, too much of these medicines, can cause madness. Because you are thrown into the left side and you can be attacked and you can become a mad person.

So these medicines are so dangerous that people without understanding the complete nature of man just try to treat part of it.

In Sahaja Yoga we, as he said, I do not take any medicines, My …. as Kabira has said, “I do not take any medicines, for me Parabrahma is the one who is my Vaidya, He treats me”.

And is a fact, now the time has come to prove what Kabira has said, what Nanaka has said, what Adi Shankaracharya has said, what Christ has said. There is no need to take medicine to cure this centre.

We spoil this centre by other means also. For example, if you… there can be very simple reasons for spoiling it. You take your bath with hot water.

Normally to take a hot bath – a hot bath is all right, but that should be done in the night when you don’t go out at all. Then you sleep off, you are in the room and there cannot be a problem. But I’ve seen in England most of the Indians who come and see Me have got trouble with their lungs. They have a problem with their lungs and sometimes they get lung cancer very easily. And what I found out that they take a very hot bath like English people. Actually English people take seldom their baths. So [She laughs, general laughter] and it is very common to see in English homes sixty bedrooms with a bath, you see. Because they don’t require it much.

But even if they have to take, they take it in the night. [Laughter] They don’t take it early in the morning like Indians do. You see, you have to live in England the way English are – and not that, you cannot live like that, is a bit too much [laughter] – but still you can sometimes understand that if you have to take the bath early in the morning, and then go to office, you are definite to catch this centre or a centre next to that which is called as right heart in our Sahaja Yoga language.

Now this center heart is caught, or the right heart is caught, because you suddenly expose yourself to cold weather. In the same way in Delhi you may catch it, that you just have your hot bath and get out into the cold. Now best thing is that you take your hot bath always, and then allow the water to be mixed with cold water, make the tap run and then you take your bath, end up with cool water.

You’ll be amazed you will never catch cold.

Is a very simple thing to do.

Once you practice this, you will never catch cold.

I have seen people living very near Himalayas where it’s absolutely very, very cold twelve months. They always take their baths early in the morning sitting outside with cold water. They never take bath with hot water.

They never have hot water to take their bath. And I’ve not seen any person suffering from this cold in the hills. They keep very good health as far as the cold is concerned despite the fact it is very cold. It’s a matter of little habit, if the sahaj yogis who are realized souls, if they practice this, I tell you all your Vishuddhis which are so horribly caught up will be all right and I will have less trouble [laughter, She laughs].

Because today I was clearing everybody’s Vishuddhi there.

Now this right-side heart is caught up, is most surprising that it is caught up, because it is the, it is bestowed upon by the deity of Shri Rama. Shri Rama is the Father deity. He is the Father, he is the Father king and he is the Father of this world, is the Father head. Supposing you are a bad father, you will catch this. Ultimately, with this center you always get asthma, always.

All asthma patients who have come to Me have been cured – so far. I have cured most of the ailments of right heart.

There is another cause of this is, supposing somebody’s father is dead in early years, very early years when the child was not yet properly settled down, or he died at a time with an accident or may be with a worry about the child. Then he haunts the child. This is true.

At that time, if you just tell your father that “I’m all right, don’t worry, you take your birth, I’ll be all right”, you’ll be amazed, this asthma can go.

There was a governor of Kashmir, who was a very, very respectable man and we had gone to him as state guests. One morning he came walking barefeet in Kashmir to our guesthouse, I was amazed why he was walking down. So went down to see him.

He said, “Today I’ve come to see You as a Mother and not as Mrs. Shrivastava. And I have come to ask You for one boon that I’ve had this asthma for twenty-five years and can You cure me?”. And it was cured in five minutes flat.

It’s that simple. If you take the name of Shri Rama, if Nanaka says is all right or if Kabira does is all right, but if you unauthorized way if you go on pestering Shri Ram for everything, then also this chakra can be caught.

Those people who believe in Hanumana, also if they go on too much with it, it can be caught.

Hanumana is the deity for your air, for your breathing, and when you try to suffocate Hanumana within you, you get the trouble of His disappearing from that center, or you can say He sleeps and you get these two troubles of – one is asthma and also sometimes you might get choking. Suddenly, people, some people when they are talking, suddenly they choke up.

Now this, this is very easy to cure, very, very easy to cure asthma can be cured very easily.

But the center heart when it is in problem it can be with anything. We have here a patient who was doing this Santoshi Mata’s vrat and she got this trouble.

Now Santoshi Mata, there’s nothing like that. It’s absurd! Any Santoshi Mata is created by some cinema fellow and all the women are doing this and they are fasting on Friday.

If you fast on Friday in the name of the Goddess, you can fast if you want to, but not in the name of Goddess – you are definite to catch this thing because that is the day when She was born. Friday is the day as regarded as the day of the Goddess. And that day one has to celebrate it instead of fasting.

Apart from that, when you start taking Her name morning till evening every time, She gets fed up of you and She disappears from there. She just doesn’t like you and you might develop a big problem.

She is the One who gives you sense of security. She is the One She gives you sense of security. When your sense of security is disturbed, then you get the catch on this one.

For example, the women who suffer from, say, breast cancer are only doing so because of this, because She is the Great Mother and as a mother, you suffer. Supposing a husband is a bad man and a flirt, and the woman thinks he is not all right.

It is important for man to console his wife and see that she has complete faith in her security.

But specially in India we try to make our women extremely insecure by the way we talk to them, the way we treat them.

I mean, we are extremely cruel people as far as our wives are concerned. Because I have seen people here, we have such a big dowry system and all sorts of systems in all our horrible customs and castes.

If a daughter is there, then there’s all weakness for her, but the wife is also a daughter of somebody else, nobody thinks.

They will say if the wife asks for anything, “Go and ask your father. Why didn’t he give it in the marriage?” There is no fondness for the wife. There’s no understanding that she is the one who is to be loved. She is to be given all the security. And we put all kinds of insecurities into her, we shout at her, some… so many people also beat their wives. In England, invariably men beat their wives, surprisingly supposed to be very educated, sophisticated people. The more sophisticated they are, the worse they are.

Not only they beat their wives, but they kill their children. Every week two children are killed in England. And we are going the same way. I tell you I had never known people who used to beat their wives when I was a child or when I was grown up.

I have seen My father that he always respected My mother very much. But nowadays I find that husbands have no respect for the wife at all. They think they are very great people even if they are clerks or anything they think the wife is a peon. If the husband is a peon he thinks the wife is a jamadar [laughter]. If he is the jamadar I don’t know what he must be thinking his wife to be.

And this kind of mythical complexes that human beings have developed, women develop this kind of a trouble, specially when men are flirts.

You see, when men start looking out for other women it upsets women; it upsets their sense of security. She is the mother of your children. She feels that any day she is challenged and any days she’ll be insulted, she is a mother and as your children’s mother, she must be respected.

If she is not respected, she is absolutely prone to this kind of a sense of insecurity in which she might develop this breast cancer. And this breast cancer is a very serious disease, as you know.

We have cured many people from breast cancer. Many people have been cured of breast cancer and the relationship between husband and wife has improved after that. But while she gets breast cancer, then you should see the husband.

He gets absolutely upset, he does not know what to do because Indian husbands do not know how to cook even, they do not know even how to buy a vegetable, they don’t know what are different dhals are.

They don’t know any work whatsoever in the house. They are not like English husbands or any Western husbands, and some of the Western people told me that Indian men are cowards. They cannot take a divorce because they don’t know how to cook [laughter]. So, this is the condition of our Indian men, they are entirely dependant on their wives for everything, still they try to dominate their women so much; and I’m speaking in English, I’m sorry I have to say this but it is the case.

And when, you see, the women, when they find men behaving like this, they become tigresses. Some of them become such horrible tigresses that they can ruin not only the family but families after families and nations after nations.

You are creating a woman who is challenging you and then once she starts challenging – and the result of that I have seen that in England or in any other such country, France, Germany, Germany specially. In Germany women are hitlerish, absolutely hitlerish, men shake before them [laughter]. Absolutely, they are just like ghatis, you see, in the hamals, working in the house. The woman stands with her both hand on her hips and she says, “You haven’t cleaned this. You haven’t done this, what have you been doing? This is not clean.”

They have to clean all the utensils in the house, everything, they have to keep the kitchen absolutely sparklingly clean, otherwise the men would be scolded on, “You don’t know how to keep it clean? Better go and learn from your neighbor.” And poor neighbors consult each other and do their homework [laughter].

Moreover the laws are such, they have passed such laws that when the wife divorces a husband, she gets half of the property, half of the income of the husband, as long as she does not marry.

For example, a man is living in a huge big place. Suddenly his wife decides to divorce – decides, there’s no reason needed for that. If she decides to divorce, then they get a divorce, and the house is to be sold, and the money is to be given half, half. [Laughter]

Then if such a wife marries twice or thrice, she is a rich lady while this man is a pauper [laughter]. This is a very common sight.

I have seen this very common in America specially, that she says that he was my husband, he looks like a chauffeur, and this lady is going in such big Cadillacs and all that, with a [laughter] – I wouldn’t say cigarette, it’s more than that [laughter] – and with a stick in the hand, you see, very smart. And while the husband is all tattered and torn, and working as a chauffeur somewhere.

So, that another extreme is also horrid.

A woman is not to be like that, she has to be a decent gracious personality and she is not to take up this challenge, it’s not wise to take these challenges from men. At least, Indian women know that, most of them know, I hope so, they will keep it up.

But the men must understand now that they have to respect women. If they do not respect their women, then the daughters that they have, will be coming out like that and they’ll show such results that you’ll be shocked.

One day they may even slap their father on the face. It is quite possible, all such things can happen in this country also.

So one has to be careful.

Now I’ve said it because these two centers are very important, Shri Rama, who is the deity of Maryadas, of boundaries, how a human being must live.

All His life, He never showed any special interest in giving realization to people.

But – of course, He destroyed Ravana and He destroyed many rakshasas. But main message of His life is a life of a dedicated husband, who loved His wife very much and a man who sacrificed His beloved for the sake of His being a good king. But just the other way round you find, in this country where we think love is great – here, I’ve known of many Ministers whose wives rule the family. Take, sacrifice is not there, on the contrary, the wives are so important that they can make the husbands just sit in the corner and nobody says anything about it.

But I have also known even worse cases where the whole country is sold in the name of their children. It is such a serious thing. We do not understand that these children are not something that are going to carry your name, but what is going to carry your name is your own worth, is your own style, is in your own character, and your own leadership. Nobody is going to be bothered who is the one who is your son or who is your daughter or who is who.

So those people who try such things, to think that their children and their children or – children are so important, then they should realize that it was Shri Rama who sacrificed His beloved, when She was pregnant and He led a life of an ascetic remembering His wife.

This sacrifice was too much for Shri Ram because He really loved Her, really, could not exist without Her, it was too much. And then at a time when it comes to, Sita also left Him.

And She left Him in Her own grace and in Her own grandeur. She didn’t allow Him to touch His body and She just disappeared, like a woman has to do. While in the modern times, it is not so. If the husband has harmed you, then the women will go to the courts, she’ll put him in the jail and she will see that he is punished nicely. Why? Because he was busy with other women. Now, what I’m saying, if you think that you love your husband and that’s why you are angry that he should have nothing to do with other women, why should you put him in the jail? Why should you trouble him and torture him?

So we have to realize that husband and wife relationship is extremely important for sahaja yogis. You are the complements of each other. If the relationship is not all right, Sahaja Yoga does not work out. It is not that a woman becomes so dominant, but it is the complement, the love between the two, the beauty of love, and the understanding.

You need not even smile at your husband, you need not even, when he is going – you see, in England I have seen or anywhere else I have seen, people will be all the time kissing each other and doing all kinds of gestures to show that they love. And if you ask them, “Where are you going?” – Even on an escalator you’ll find them like that. And if you ask them where are they going they will say that, “Just now we are going for a divorce case.” [Laughter]

The show is not needed, but from the heart, you must feel that oneness with your husband and that love for him and the husband must feel that love; and it’s the only relationship, it’s the only, believe Me, which is the most beautiful.

The relationship with your children, you will understand when they will earn, with your daughter she will understand when they are married. With your parents also, when they are grown up, you are grown up you have your wife, you’ll find there will be a – you’ll find their conceit coming up.

But the relationship with your wife is the most private and the most treasured relationship and that’s why people have sung so many poems about it and so many things. In Indian language, the – we have a certain law about even writing. Whatever is not hitakari is not accepted because it is called as Sahitya. Sahitya means Saha Hita, the one which gives you Hita to your Atma is the only Sahitya. The literature is Sahitya, whichever is not is not literature, is trash.

And in Sanskrit language Shringara which is not with your wife, is not a Shringar, is ashleela.

It has to be with your wife or to whom you are engaged to. And it is such a pure thing, is such a pure thing. And if people can understand how to enjoy that purity, they will become themselves pure and they will have the best essence of it.

You see, when it comes to buying something, we want pure silk, we want pure diamond, we want pure gold. But when it comes to our love, we want to have all kinds of mixed-up impurities, perversions. And then we say, “Oh, I got tired. I cannot enjoy”. Because it’s not pure! The purity of that relationship must be enjoyed.

In Sahaja Yoga we don’t believe in sannyasa, as I told you and there should be no sannyasa now, because there are many great souls who want to be born on this earth and we have to make arrangements for them.

We have to have people who are happily married, who respect each other, love each other, so that the great saints can be born here.

In this relation, I would say a very interesting talk that I had with a BBC fellow who came to interview Me.

And he was, as usual, they are very sarcastic and they think they are very smart. They did not know they were meeting a smarter person [laughter].

First he said to Me that, “How is it You are here and doing so much for us, but why don’t You go and help Indians who are so poor?”

I said, “I’m sorry Sir, I’m in England and I’m on your soil, I shouldn’t say this, it’s not gracious for Me to say, but you have asked such a question, I must answer it. With full apologies, I must say: who is responsible for the poverty of India?” [Laughter]

And he kept quiet. Then he came out with second question, you see, very smart fellow.

He said that “But, what do You think of the population problem of India? We are so much worried about it. Why don’t You look after the population problem of Your India?”

“Of course I’m in England, I would have never been there, I’m only there because My husband is there.” But I said, “Really, I’m sorry that this is in India, but what to do? There’s no solution for it.”

He said, “Are we also responsible for that?”

I said, “I’m sorry to say, very much so.” [Laughter]

He said, “How are we responsible for your population problem?”

I said, “The trouble is, you see, the people who are taking birth have to decide, who will take birth in this England? [Laughter and applause] There two children every week are killed by the parents for nothing at all, where the children are legal, everything – who, which foolish man will take birth here [laughter] except for people who are of a very high grade – spirituality, you don’t bother about these things [She laughs]; or only the rakshasas who will come and hit their parents and that’s what they are doing today. They are treating you well, the way you are parents, and you don’t know what to do with them”.

And this is what it is I have to tell you that unless and until we really respect our wives and give them proper attention and proper help, the discipline of this country is not going to improve.

It is she who disciplines the children, is important to give her a complete sense of security. And the conceit of man has to go away, that he thinks he’s very important, he’s not. It is both, if they are together, then the whole unit is important, you can’t live with one eye, you have to have both the eyes. If one eye thinks he is more important, that means one eye should disappear to see what happens without [laughter].

After these, we come to another center, which is extremely important in Sahaja Yoga called as Vishuddhi chakra, which is placed behind this part. Now it is not an exact position in every human being. It’s little lower, higher, so one should not say that this is at this point. Because we have to understand, this I’m talking about the living process.

You can put dead things at the exact position, at the exact date. But can you say that the tree will grow in this form, can you say before the tree is grown? It will take its own form. Can you say the roots will grow like that? Can you say so many, exactly so many flowers will be there? Or exactly so many flowers will become fruits?

You cannot say. Can you say at this time, at this hour, at this moment, the flower is going to become the fruit? So, in the same way, you cannot say exactly about Sahaja Yoga that where is this particular center is placed. Is above that. You have to feel it, the vibrations, and you can make it out that in some person it’s slightly higher, in some person it is lower.

But why it is so important is this center is that this denotes our real evolution into a human being. When the man raised his head up like that, this center developed into us by which we developed this ego and superego within us.

How this has happened is another big lecture [She laughs] for which I would request you to read something on “Advent” or something like that where it is little bit explained, how the awareness of man when he raised his head like this that his ego started developing, and when he raised it like that it started dominating its superego or its mana.

This development within human beings is so important because at this time, here, resides Shri Krishna. Shri Krishna is sampurna. It’s called as sixteen-petalled, sampurna, complete incarnation. And sixteen petals are expressed as sixteen sub-plexuses in cervical plexus.

The cervical plexus looks after the gross side of the face and the nose and the eyes and the ears and the throat. And – but the subtler side of this center is very important, which is the left side, is the sub-conscious side. And in the left side is the person who feels very guilty or a person who has not proper understanding of pure relationships of other women or other men. Such a person develops this, in his left side.

Now one may say that what’s wrong in all these perverted relationships with others, and what goes wrong with us.

You see, in the West specially, people believe that you can have any kind of relationship with anyone, no age, nothing, and they quite boast of it. I mean, it’s such a funny thing sometimes, when I first went there, I had no idea that they were that extent they were mad.

Because the first thing, in those days, when I reached there was, the first thing on the page was love letter by an eighty-year-old lady to an eighteen-year-old boy [laughter]. And it was written, every his love letter was there.

And this love letter became such a headache to Me, I could not understand how could these people think of such horrible things and write such letters and publish them in the papers.

And this kind of madness, if you have, if you do not have the sense of purity about the relationship with others, you develop this left Vishuddhi. With the left Vishuddhi, you develop lots of problems.

With your tobacco and smoking also you develop sometimes left Vishuddhi and also right Vishuddhi. When left Vishuddhi is developed too much, then you will find a man when he speaks, he stammers, his face is always going into contortions, his body is doing like this, noses, you will find all the Americans do like that. Like this they will be moving [laughter], there will be nervousness on the face and they would not be normal people. The thing is their left Vishuddhi is in a problem. As we say the pishani, this forehead is absolutely wrinkled up and they have big, big furrows at a very young age. Because I was amazed that some woman who was only thirty years of age, half of My age, had such furrows and I thought she was an old lady, I was very respectful to her, I got up, gave her My seat and all that and I was standing up. [Laughter]

And after some time, she said, “Thank You very much, very kind of You” and all that and she asked Me – somehow I asked her, “What are you doing?”

She said, “I’m still studying, doing PhD.”

I said ,”What? [Laughter] Still studying? What’s your age?”

She said, “Thirty.”

I said, “Really? Will you please get up? I have to sit down.” [Laughter and applause, She laughs]

I mean, there the criteria of health is to be just like mosquitoes, you see, the trouble is they have to be like mosquitoes.

And as it is, they must remain very thin just like as we call in Hindi, haddimarka.

And on top of that they wear high heels, you see, and walk just like, what you call, like spiders [laughter] you see, from here to there, and you don’t know where they’ll put their foot onto you [laughter]. And that is regarded as a beauty there. And so surprising that at a very young age they start looking so very old that this mistake can be done by many of us.

Moreover, the another problem comes of left Vishuddhi, when people do not have proper sense of womanhood and manhood.

Is very common in England and other countries, Western countries, like America is much worse, you cannot make out a man from a woman.

You see, the women dress up just like horses, they walk like horses [laughter], I mean, the whole thing is so funny that, you see, this is big problem for us how to address! And sometimes it happens like this, that in a meeting, I forget all the time that this is a man, I always go on saying “She.” Then he: “He”. Then they say, “No, this is a man.” I remember then this is a man, it’s such a problem!

One day, we were going by car, My husband and Myself we asked ourselves, “Do you think the person who is going in the other car is a man or a woman?” I said, “Now”… Then our car went ahead, still we looked back, he said, “I can’t say.”

I said, “I can’t say.” [She laughs]

So, I asked our driver, who is an Englishman, he looked back he said, “Madam, we are sorry, I’m also sorry, I’m a foreigner, I don’t know.” [Laughter]

So this kind of perverted attitude, to behave like this – you see, you are a man, behave like a man, if you are a woman, behave like a woman.

If you start behaving like a man, or a woman behaving like a man and a man behaving like a woman, you see, you must understand your muscles are made the way you are.

For example, a man can do lot of work which women cannot do.

There is no need to be like Russian women who are doing the, what you call, road-rollers, they are driving or whatever it is.

You see, they say that Russian women can do this, but I tell you Russians, I do not want to say much, but only thing I know that when they shake hands, you know all your hand goes out. [Laughter, She laughs] Fall out [unclear].

That’s all I know, I know from the shake hands, you see, we have sometimes to shake hands with many people. I mean, Australians also are quite capable [laughter]. When Australians shake your hands, you can be sure that, at least, if not much, but at least some ounces are lost. [Laughter]

Now, this is the thing is that men have to be men and women have to be women.

When the women become very arrogant and become very aggressive, then men also to overpower them become even more, and a sort of a competition starts, and then they become, first become like donkeys, then become like horses, then they will become like mares, then become like lions, then tigers and you get lost among them, you don’t know what’s the matter.

You see any film, anything you find nothing but fighting going on between husband and wife, as if they are married just to fight, they had no place to fight, so they are married.

All the time this kind of a struggle, and this kind of a competition that goes about, gives you a very bad Vishuddhi.

And that if men are smoking, “What’s wrong if we smoke?” “What’s wrong?” This is a very common thing.

And now, another madness is the liberation of women has started. God knows what is going to happen to these women, what sort of left Vishuddhi they’ll be having. They’ll be having a head just like this, they might have a cancer in this part, maybe, and they might have a trouble because they are doing something so unnatural, which is not suitable to them.

Is possible also in our Indian life, we can get cancer of our left Vishuddhi.

How do you get cancer of the left Vishuddhi in Indian life is by taking the mantras, by taking the name of God for hours together.

For example, if you start singing the song is all right. But if you go on saying Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, morning till evening, you might develop a cancer.

I had a patient who came to see Me who had a cancer of the left side.

I asked him, “What do you do? How did you get this?”. He told me that he is working for a firm, which supplies people to chant God’s name.

I said, “What?”

He said, “Yes, there is a firm which has people trained how to chant God’s name and they are supplied to all the Marwadis. Whenever they have a program, they put up these people there who go on chanting these names for hours together.” [Hindi]

They go on chanting this name all the time and this chanting has created a problem for that man, because he had a job just “Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram”, I don’t know, whatever it is, and they sit down there and they go on chanting these, the money is paid for them.

And also, you see, in this country we have all funny types of institutions. It’s nice to laugh at the Western people, but if we see ourselves, you’ll be amazed that we have people here in this country who go for crying also.

If somebody’s dead and there are few people to cry, they have people on hire, to cry [laughter]. And they cry so loudly, I mean, they have given a special – I did not know but then we had a friend who was our neighbour and he said the best crying people are in this particular agency [laughter]. And if you call them, they’ll be very good.

Then also we have people who are all the time shouting slogans, you see, this country is known for slogans, you won’t find better sloganish people than Indians are. And the slogans they have is such a, such a business, they make business out of, that’s typically Indian is to make business out of everything.

So the slogan now, all right, “We’ll supply slogan people. You want these slogans, all right, we’ll give you.”

Now in Delhi, perhaps, you do not know, I know this because I was with Lal Bahadur Shastri, with My husband and [She laughs] I’ve seen this, that one day people came to shout for something with the slogans, you see, near his place there was a roundabout, and where people came and started shouting slogans. And when they started shouting slogans, they were supposed to represent a particular party. And they had other banners in their hands, they had other caps and they were shouting something else, while they were supposed to represent something.

So, people asked them, “Are you shouting for them? We have paid you for this [laughter, She laughs], why are you shouting for our opposite party?”.

So they said that, “No, no, we were – must be a mistake, you see, they just informed us this, and we have sets of caps and sets of slogans and sets of banners. So, they gave us this, we came here, what to do now? Whatever they have given us, you go and change it and we’ll start shouting for another one.” [Laughter]

So all this kind of shouting, too much talking or keeping quiet unnecessarily – that is very common in India to talk. We talk a bit too much and when we talk too much also we can catch on the right Vishuddhi very badly.

While in England they won’t talk much, they just don’t talk, you see, they just stare at you with your eyes, you see [laughter], and you can be quite frightened the way they look at you. They don’t believe in talking much, but they believe in drinking much more [laughter]. And I have seen that the people do not realize what a strain it is for your throat to talk.

Actually I’ve seen it Myself, I have to talk such a lot every day, I mean if there is one center which really gives Me trouble is My throat, because I have to speak, unless and until I speak, people are not very happy.

For example, today was one day, I never wanted to speak, you know what’s the matter with Me that I’m so full of vibrations I didn’t want to speak. But without speech, Indians won’t be happy, I thought, “I’d better speak.” And same with the other people. They would love to hear Me talk, talk, talk.

And when we do that, we catch on our Vishuddhi, we have problems on our Vishuddhi and it’s rather difficult, difficult to cure a throat where this strain is there of talking.

All our leaders have to do the same and we have so many leaders that I think we can patent some sort of a medicine for their over–talking [laughter].

Now, after that we have a very, very important center here, of which you all know, is Agnya Chakra. And this center is very important because this center is placed between the pituitary and the pineal body, is a very subtle center. And this center controls both your ego and superego, so that it controls your thought.

A person whose this center is out of gear, loses power over his thoughts. A person who is possessed, will be all the time talking, he cannot stop. I have seen in Paris, when you get into a bus, you see, some old people will come up and they’ll be talking all the time, they are all the time talking.

I asked, “What are they talking?”

So My disciple told Me there, Marie, she said: “Mother, they are talking about the last war.”

I said, “What?”. “Yes”. And I said: ”People don’t say anything?”

At least in Indian buses I have not seen, every bus stop there are three or four people coming and talking loudly and they are regarded as mad people, they get down, again they start talking. This kind of a disease can come in a person who is hit by a possession on the right or on the left hand side, but is more with the Agnya. If you are hit at the back, it’s a possession from outside, but if you are hit in the front, it is a possession from inside, is auto-hypnosis.

For a man who is egoistical, you might get a very bad Agnya here. And such a bad Agnya, just like a balloon it grows, and you feel you should be away from that person as soon as possible.

There are people who develop their ego with all kinds of misidentifications. For example, if somebody gets a promotion, or if he gets little more money than others, or has a little better life than the others, he develops this special type of a ego.

Ego-oriented people are normally grow taller and superego people become dwarfs.

But ego-oriented people also have a special type of a nose, you see, very straight nose if they are born with the ego. Now for such people it is important to see their ego and watch it and laugh at it, make a fun out of it and then only they can get rid of it.

After realization, ego starts troubling you, you can feel the pain of ego here. Then you come to Me, “Mother, I’m catching on my right Agnya. Please take it away, please take it away.”

Ego is more a cultural problem also. In a culture where it is competition and is very struggling, and all the suggestions come to you that you have to stand first, you have to be a unique personality, you start developing your ego, because your action line moves very fast; by that, by that Kriya Shakti, you create ego within you.

People pamper you, that by this your ego will be all right, but you do not know, they say, “Oh you’ll look very nice.” It’s pampering. It’s the pampering of your ego from your childhood, the whole society works it out, by which you think, “Oh, I must be unique person, I should be something special. I should be something great.”

Any uniqueness is against God’s laws, it’s malignancy. If such a cell can become malignant, he may start eating up all. What happened to Hitler was nothing but he became malignant. He could not see through how he was destroying others. The thing is, when you have ego, you destroy others, you are not harmed and you cannot see it.

The people who have superego or a mana or which we call the possessions of the left side, such people, do not destroy others but they are destroyed themselves.

So the ego in front and ego at the back is only felt after realization and can only be corrected after realization.

The back ego you might feel as madness, or lunacy, or some sort of a pain in the body, the whole body gets pain, it moves here, it comes here, goes there, is definitely it’s a possession.

But the right ego, very people, very few people are aware of it because it doesn’t give trouble to you, it troubles others.

Now this is also a curse of, I would say, so-called advancement and development and sophistication, is a curse of that. So, if you go to the right too much, you develop your ego, you go too much to the left, you develop your superego.

The best thing is for you to be in dharma, to be in the center, to be moderate; to be moderate with yourself, don’t try to show off.

Do not think you have to be unique. You need not, who is bothered about you? It is you who should respect yourself. It’s not the others.

If supposing, you have a big car or anything, nobody respects you, on the contrary they must be saying, “This must be a black marketeer who has got a big car.”

But ego can develop in a very subtle way when people talk of their comforts. When we talk [of] our comforts, we always say that we must have our comforts, we must be comfortable. This is a very, very subtle way, and a secret way we develop our ego.

Bernard Shaw was saying that “After all, what is the difference between me and an ordinary coolie, an ordinary laborer? It’s just the same. Why should I have more comfort and he should have less comfort?”

Of course, one can understand also that a man who is doing work as a laborer does not have to use his brain too much so he thinks he can put up with little exertion. While the man who is sitting on the chair is not used to the exertions, or you can say the hard way of life, so he finds it difficult.

But it is such a vicious circle that when you do this brain activity you develop your ego, then you want more comfort, and then you want to do more mental activity, then you want more comfort and it’s a very vicious circle.

When you try to break through with that, I mean, I must say the Western young people are doing it because they have accepted hippyism. Now hippyism is a reaction of that ego. They say, “No, we live in a very spartan way. We want to have uncomfortable. We must rough it out.”

This is a very good idea, but when they are doing it, they have taken to another thing, horrible thing like drugs to go to superego.

When you get your realization, you start seeing this ego so clearly – ego, superego both so clearly and you know how to take them out.

You know how to balance yourself, how to reduce the pressure of ego or superego and you know how to establish your attention in the limbic area.

Now the last of all is the limbic area.

I must tell you that this really subtle center is governed by Lord Jesus Christ. Beyond is the limbic area, is the area which is the Kingdom of God within us. Here when you enter, you have no thoughts, you are without thoughts. But still the Kundalini has to pierce, you are to be born again.

In the limbic area, all the seven centers are there. I mean, there are so many centers we have got that all the brain cells can be called as centers, but specially these seven centers can be easily located in your limbic area.

Now you have seen that when you are realized, even if you put your fingers into your ears, you can hear the minutest of notes and music, because you start hearing through this. Limbic area is a very important thing, but I think the medical science doesn’t know much about it.

After realization you know the Sahastrara, what it is, how it works out and how the deity at Sahastrara gives you realization, how it works it out. It’s a important thing that you must get realization before I talk to you about Sahastrar.

In all the ancient books, nothing has been written about Sahastrar. Nobody has written anything much about [it], except that it has this color, there are many petals, but not much has been described about Sahastrar because it is left to My lot to explain to you what Sahastrara is.

These are all the centers we have tried to cover in a very short time, whatever it is, in a very fast way I should say, but to digest it, you must get the book, we have got “Advent”, and other books, go through it, read it, understand it. It’s a regular knowledge; it’s the absolute knowledge which you should have.

Now, tomorrow [hindi] – tomorrow we have a program here, and that’s very important because this I told you what we have got, what are the centers are, how the Kundalini is. Tomorrow we – I will tell you what is to be done after realization. It’s very important, you must all come here and get your realization established, we are going to work more on realization than on all this knowledge.

You see, you become all –being all intellectuals, you always want to know the engineering of it. But the engineering is not so important as the happening.

You see, I may tell you the whole engineering about electricity and all that, but if there is no light here, it has no meaning. So one has to realize that the engineering is a headache without the light. It’s better to know that you are the Spirit.

Tomorrow, for a short time, I’ll tell you what is the Spirit. And then I will tell you what is to be done after Realization.

May God bless you all.

Thank you for waiting for Me.

[Applause. Yogis: “Jai Mataji Nirmala Devi ki! Jai!”]

You may help Me more by using your right hand to give yourself a balance, put your left hand towards …

[End of audio]

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi