Mooladhara and Swadhishthan

Maccabean Hall, Sydney (Australia)

1981-03-25 Mooladhara and Swadishthan, Sydney, Australia, 83' Chapters: Talk, Q & ADownload subtitles: CS,EN,IT,PL,PT,TR,ZH-HANS,ZH-HANT (8)View subtitles:
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1981-03-25 Mooladhara and Swadhishthana, Sydney, Australia

I bow to all the seekers of Truth.

The other day, I told you a little bit about the first centre, called as Mooladhara Chakra, and Kundalini, which is the residual consciousness in the triangular bone called as sacrum. As I told you that this is the pure desire power which has not yet been awakened and is not yet manifested within you, which resides here waiting for a moment to arise and to give you your second birth, your baptism. It makes you at peace. It gives you your Self-realization. This pure desire is to be one with your Spirit. Unless and until it is fulfilled, those who are seeking will never be satisfied whatever they may do. 

Now, this first centre is very important because this was the first centre that was created when the Primordial Being started doing the job. This is the centre of innocence that is holiness. First thing that was created was holiness on this Earth. This centre is very important in all the human beings because animals have innocence, they have not lost it, while we have a right, or we can say, we have a freedom to abandon it. We can do it, we can somehow or other destroy it by our so-called ideas of freedom.

This centre has a power to give us wisdom. Wisdom is such a word that cannot be explained. Wisdom is the balance between your understanding of what is good and what is bad. Where you really understand what is good for you, for your Spirit, is wisdom, and when this centre is alive and is not destroyed, then you really know what wisdom is. 

For example, the person who has got this centre very well developed can tell you whether it is the North or the South, because the magnetism that is in the Mother Earth. This centre is made by the element of Mother Earth. The magnetism that is in the Mother Earth is present in this centre. When the birds fly all the way from Siberia to Australia, they do it with the help of this centre, because they know whether they are moving northward or southward. They have an innate wisdom to know which way to move and that’s why one should know that this centre is also within us, but we have lost our sense of judgement because we have lost that magnetism within us.

An innocent person is really like a magnet and it attracts; he attracts the people towards himself, just like a flower attracts a bee towards itself. There are some fishes in which they have found an actual magnetic field and in some of them, they have even found a regular magnet placed in certain fishes by which they know whether they are going North, South, East or West. 

This centre in us can be destroyed by various ways, as I told you last time. If you see from the top, there is a blue line coming down; this is the power of our desire, by which we desire and is the emotional side of a human being. When a person neglects his emotional side or does not respect his emotional side, then this centre gets lost, it gets very much destroyed. The emotional side in these modern times is not well understood by human beings. I’m sorry to say, but it is very true that when you destroy this centre, the first thing that sets in is impotency or over activity, like the rapist and all that are created because this centre is neglected. Both things are just the same in the eyes of God; any extreme is wrong. 

Those people who say that you can be enlightened through sex are really – I don’t know what to call them, because She is your Mother sitting down there; She is only your Mother, She has no other child and She is holiest of holy. She is the Holy Ghost within you and if you want to sex on your Mother, I don’t know if people understand that here. In India it’s impossible; we cannot understand this nonsense. So it’s the same insult to your Mother. 

Like some people try to insult Mother Mary by putting Christ in a very awkward situation with Her. It’s something like that we can say happens when you start talking like this. It’s a very great sin to do such a thing to your own Mother, which is the Kundalini and that’s why, the other day I told you, I have seen some people have Kundalini which is all the time tossing Her head and breaking Her whole body and just feeling so helpless because She’s made so weak because the holiness from a person is vanished. Our idea of holiness has become so perverted and to add up to that we have now gurus to tell us that it’s a very good thing to do, you’ll go to heaven. Actually they are very honest they say you’ll go to bottomless pit and bottomless pit means hell.

Why do you need a guru for this? Actually you have mastered this art. I mean, in England when I went, I was amazed that they have sex about… I mean they talk of sex and sex and sex, morning till evening. I don’t understand. Like all impotent people talk. That’s how they go on talking about sex, all the time; it’s nothing but sex; it’s so filthy, so filthy. They talk sex with the animals, sex with the children, sex with… I don’t know what’s happening to human beings, how can they be that filthy? I wouldn’t be surprised after some time we will have our bathrooms inside our drawing rooms. You see there’s something like our privacy, something like our drawing room where we meet people. How can you talk of these things, and how can you discuss these things which are so private, and so sacred, and that’s how you lose them or you lose balance over them.

This is one of the things that’s happening to us because God has given us freedom within, we can do what we like. But we have lost our wisdom. We have lost. I don’t know why this industrial revolution, or I don’t know whom to blame, but we have lost our wisdom to understand that these things are injurious. If it is not, we logically can say, why do we develop diseases? With free sex, all the sailors, you know under law, have to have in every port arrangements for getting injections for all kinds of complications that they have from sex life. Why is it you do not feel healthy every minute? You’ll lose all your health, all your charm is gone from your face, you’re sunken and you look so horrid. It’s a very good sign, just now, to see how nature reacts with it. So one has to be wise to understand that God has given us this thing to us, not to be insulted but for us to lead a good, normal married life, and not to waste our energies in this kind of thing.

But when people start thinking about it, then it’s even worse. Then what happens, that this shifts from there the attention onto the other side and it goes to the yellow side, goes to the brain. When you start thinking about it, definite it is that you’ll become impotent. Definite, no doubt at a very early stage. Because it is a spontaneous thing. And when you start thinking about it, when your eyes starts roving here and there, be sure your attention is gone to something which is so localized, which is so different and which takes place only at a time when you are at a certain emotional spontaneity. 

It’s very out of date to talk of these things to people but if you are not careful about it, you have to find out the statistics of American young people and you will be amazed how many of them are suffering from horrible diseases. When I went to America, I found that nine out of ten young people who came to me were suffering from these horrible diseases and most of them were impotent. It’s a shocking truth. One has to face it as it is and not to say, “Oh. I’m alright, I’m alright.” This is not the way to look at things. We have to see the statistics that are being placed before us, and to know that there is something wrong about it and with your wisdom you have to reach certain conclusions about it.

The second centre, which I call as a Swadhishthana centre, is also a very important centre within us. 

The first centre looks after all of our excretion; it has got four petals. In the same way, the pelvic plexus, which is manifested by that, which is a gross plexus within us, has also got four sub-plexuses. 

Another one that we have is the Swadhishthan centre which is the second centre. The second centre has got six petals and it supplies, or it manifests in the gross, the aortic plexus which has got six sub-plexuses. Now this centre is very important for us in the modern times; it is extremely important and I think neglect of this centre can create lots of problems.

Now this centre if you see is connected with the brain and this centre is responsible for our action, is the centre of our creativity. When we think of the future, when we do any physical work, we use this centre for that purpose and one has to understand that these days we are developing lots of diseases because we have not understood what the function of this centre is.

The foremost function of this centre is to convert the fat cells for the use of the gray matter in the head. When we think too much all the time about the future, we plan, we go on planning into all details. What happens is that this poor centre has to work very hard to produce new cells, one after another, for the use of your brain.

Apart from that it has to do many other functions. It has to look after your liver, it has to look after your spleen, it has to look after your pancreas, your kidneys and also the uterus among women. If you start thinking too much, if you cannot stop your thinking, all the time your brain goes on thinking, a sort of a thinking process starts without your control, then this poor centre has to work all that, your liver goes out.

When your liver goes out you must know that the liver is one of the most important things within us because it nourishes our attention (chitta). This attention, whenever it is spoiled, is spoiled because there are certain poisons within us; it can be physical poisons, it can be mental poisons, it can be emotional poisons. Any kind of poisons there are, especially the physical and the emotional ones, they go to this liver which sorts it out. The function of this liver is to sort it out.

But when you are not giving it sufficient energy, you are using for thinking, then this poor centre is left behind; it has no nourishment, nobody looks after it and it becomes sluggish. When it becomes sluggish, all the heat accumulates in the liver, and such a person doesn’t get any temperature till he gets cirrhosis and he dies. When thinking goes on too much, people get tired of thinking, thinking too much. So they think, “Let’s have something that will take us away from thinking, which will give us a kick outside.” So they take some sort of a drug, or a drink, or alcohol and all that.

All the saints in the world have said that alcohol is very dangerous for life. The reason is that it goes against our awareness. This is a fact; you know that after taking a drink our awareness becomes blurred or excited. It’s not normal. That is the reason they said no. 

In Sahaja Yoga I do not say don’t do this and don’t do that. I only want you to come to Sahaja Yoga, get your realization and then you’ll not ask for it. That’s a much better way to do it. But why they asked you – For example, if you read Moses, Moses has clearly said that these are strong drinks, very clearly. I don’t know if people read and they should be avoided. I don’t know if the Jews do that. They should not be taken, He has very clearly said it. Abraham said the same thing that drinks are not good.

Why all these prophets talk about it? Because they are all born in that green patch of ours; they are all placed in this green patch where we get our sustenance, which is ten. We have got ten sustenances within us, like gold has a sustenance that it does not tarnish. In the same way, human beings have got ten sustenances.

These ten sustenances are represented by great prophets. The principle is called as Adi Guru, in Sanskrit language, the Primordial Master. He has incarnated on this earth as Abraham, Moses, as Lao Tse, as Confucius, as Socrates, recently he has been as Sai Nath of Shirdi (not the other fellow), and other great people have been, like Nanaka, Janaka. All these great saints came on this Earth to tell us how to keep in the centre, how to keep our sustenance, how to be human beings. As carbon has got four valances, we too have got ten valances. We have to maintain those ten valances within us; that’s what they came to tell us.

But if anybody says you don’t drink, half of the hall will be empty. If you say you cannot have free sex, five people will walk out. That’s the problem. Here nobody likes it, to know anything about it, but it’s a dangerous thing to do. Whatever it is, you have to keep in the centre. You have to be in the centre, and how to keep in the centre is not to go to extremes, be moderate, and a moderate life is the best way. But even if you have not been, it doesn’t matter.

Kundalini is at this point in such a force that whatever you might have done, you get your realization quite alright. So is a different point, but what I am trying to tell you is this, that’s why these people said so.

Mohammed Saheb is another who said don’t drink. He’s one of them, He’s just the same; there’s no difference, there’s no difference between Moses and Mohammed Saheb; I can prove it to you on vibrations. You can yourself know through vibrations that they were the same people, said the same thing. There’s no difference of any kind. It’s only people that are fighting. I don’t know why, I just can’t understand what is there to fight between these two. They were just the same, preached the same thing, and when Moses crossed the river and the bridge was made, that bridge is the bridge which is symbolic of the Kundalini that creates for you, to cross this Void within us.

It’s very symbolic. They have worked so hard to tell you what is sustenance, where we have to be in the centre, because if you are in the sustenance, as He said, that only a thread of this Kundalini rises. It is not one thread that should rise. Actually I’ve seen in people the whole of it goes up like that and it stays there in many people, but the trouble is it rises because there’s no space to rise. We are finished off with the Swadhishthan and with another chakra which is in the centre, which is called as Nabhi Chakra means the navel centre.

When you have an obstruction in the centre, naturally the Kundalini, though it rises with full force, all the things, all the threads fall down and only one somehow or other goes up and opens up the Sahasrara, thinking that at least if I open up there then the others, the grace will fall and maybe it will open out more. 

So this is the problem. That’s why they said that you lead a life which is moderate and temperate and this is what they preached, too. Now let us see what happens when we go to extremes. 

In the centre, as we have seen, is the sustenance within us. Now if you try to go beyond this side or that side, what happens, let us see. Beyond this side is the subconscious; if you go, you enter into the collective subconscious. On the other side, if you move, that is the supra-conscious, you enter into collective supra-conscious. 

Into this side are all the people on the left-side, are the people who are still dissatisfied, very sly, sinister, horrible people who are dead, who do not want to take birth and who still want to torture people absolutely. These are busy bodies, they can possess you, they do possess you.

On the right hand side there are people like Hitler who are very ambitious, who have died out of their ambitions and things like that. They still exist there. Either you enter into this side or you enter into that side when you go to extremes and you just get possessed. It’s a very dangerous area you are entering into.

Recently I was seeing a BBC program and some doctors had discovered a very interesting thing. They said that cancer is triggered by some proteins they call it protein 58, protein 56 or something like that. When these proteins attack us from some unknown areas within us which are built within us since our creation. What are these areas? This I’ve been telling for so many years is the left side and the right side, the two extremes.

What we do when we go to the right side – the right side is the area where you think too much, where you project yourself into the future. Like that you go on, then you start becoming a person who is more interested in the future than the present. The centre is the present. Now you start projecting your mind into that [future], When you start projecting your mind too much into that, you start moving into that side. With that, anybody who is an austere person, they think that if you are a very austere person, you lead the life of celibacy and all this is nonsensical thing. If you lead a life of celibacy, it’s not going to help you at all. On the contrary, such a person becomes an extremely dry personality and ultimately dies of heart attack and such a person is so hard-headed, so hot-tempered that you must take a barge pole before you meet such a person. 

They are so cursing type, so unaware of other people’s health or anything that they can curse anyone and this is their job is to curse this one and curse that one and curse that one. They are extremely dry people. They might take to social work in the name of God or they’ll work like hell for the poor; they’re thinking they’re saving the poor and doing this and that and while, if you see them any other time, you’ll be sure that such a person is absolutely burning with fire.

They have a horrible liver, very hot temper; there is no sweetness about them, there is no magnetism about them. All the people run away from them and they are like boiled sprouts, sitting on everybody’s head. Do this, do that, you haven’t done this, what are you doing? They will not sleep themselves and not allow anybody to sleep. They think that everybody is supposed to work under their thumb and these are the people who are very ego-oriented as shown there, are the people who move onto the right-hand side.

Any austere ideas about religion can take you to this side and this austerity is very dangerous for human beings because it cuts you off from the whole. Such a person may be entrapped or possessed by some sort of a personality on the right-hand side. 

I know of a lady who is very well known in India and whose got a big prize and this and that for her social work. I happened to see her first time on an aeroplane when she had no prizes and all that. She came with some sort of an odd stuff with her and she wanted to sit in the front seat. So the air hostess said, “I’m sorry, this is reserved for some children who are sick and they have to go by this plane and we can’t give you this,” and the mother is there. 

She started fighting the mother, how many times she told them, and what do you think of yourself and this and that and she was just jumping from here to there and there to there and she wouldn’t allow the plane to leave. For half an hour she was fighting to sit down there and the amount of abuses she used for the air hostess, I was amazed.

And she’s supposed to be a woman who should be given a peace prize or something like that? I don’t know, there was no peace on her face, neither around her and everybody was so disturbed with the way she was on about it. It was really shocking to see this personality who was so hot-tempered and so meticulous about things and she was arguing with her, “This was my seat and this was this and this was that.” Thank God, then they got her out and the plane left the place. But I’m telling you, such people can be frantically hot-tempered and can be so unaware of your presence there that you have to be very, very careful with them.

Such people may look to be very, very successful in life and when they walk they have an upper lip and all sorts of things, but it takes no time for them to realize that it’s all tom-foolery going on. This kind of ego orientation can lead you to nothing but stupidity. A person can be extremely stupid and he doesn’t know how stupid he has been, because this is what’s wrong. 

A gentleman came to see us and he had a wife who was a mere sixteen years of age and the fellow was eighty years of age. Naturally, I thought he must be the grandfather, so I said, “Is she your granddaughter?” 

So my husband pinched me and said, “That’s his wife.” 

I said, “Really?” I said, “I’m sorry, I didn’t know she was your wife.”

“What’s wrong, I can have a wife who is two-year-old. What’s wrong in it?”

 I said, “Nothing wrong, only thing is people will laugh at you, that’s all.”

All sorts of stupid things people do in this world, and they think “What’s wrong?” This is the best way to get along with your stupidity, till they discover that you are the greatest stupid person ever. Now this stupidity comes from this ego going up and surrounding your brain completely. You cannot see anything else, you just see yourself, my room, my house, my, my, my. You cannot see that there are others, that you owe some sort of relationship to others, that you have to be kind to them, that you have to share things with them. You all the time think about yourself and such people get possessed by the supra-conscious style. 

What happens in spirituality in such people, they start feeling their body is lying here and they go up and sit in a tree; they think it is realization or enlightenment – just imagine. This is nothing but a supra-conscious spirit has entered and taken the body away and put it there.

I had, I told you, three Americans coming from America and they were known to be very big scientists. They came to see me, and they said, “Mother, you have to teach us one thing.” 

I said, “What?” 

“We want to fly.” 

I said, “Flying? You’re already flying. What do you want to flying?

 They said, “No, but we want to fly with ESP.” 

I said, “You should not do that because if you do that then you are enslaved by these spirits and you do want to be enslaved by these spirits.” 

“Yes, whatever it is, enslavement or anything, we want to have this and we want to get this by which you fly.” 

I said, “Why?” 

They said, “Because Russia is doing it, and Russians are doing experiments with ESP so we should also do it.” 

I said, “If they are going to hell, are you also going to hell?” 

They said, “Yes. What’s wrong?” 

I said, “Nothing is wrong. Go with two running jumps, you can go very fast there. But as far as I am concerned I am not for it. I am not going to doom your life forever.” So I asked, “Who has sent you to me?”

They said, “One Patanjali.” There is a fellow called Patanjali who is a journalist. 

I said, “This Patanjali has sent you?” 

“Yes, he has sent us to you. He was the man who used to leave his body, and run all over the places. He was a journalist, so he used to get the news before anybody knows, and he used to run out of his house and the wife was so surprised that one day he brought some sand and he said, “Yesterday, do you know where I was? I was on the [UNCLEAR] beach. From there I brought the sand for you.” She got such a fright, and he used to shake before any photograph of God or Christ or anyone, he used to shake like that, so she brought to me. She said, “This fellow is shaking. I don’t know what is happening. He is rattling, this Parkinson’s thing. I don’t know what is happening, and here, in the night, he disappears, I lock up everything and still he disappears, I don’t know what to do, it’s very shocking.” 

He said, “Sometimes I go and sit on a tree.” 

I said, “Really?” So I told him that, “You are possessed.” 

He said, “Mother, please take it away. I don’t want this nonsense. You don’t know where I will land up tomorrow. I could be anywhere, hanging in the air. I don’t want to do that and maybe my body won’t come back.”

This is what people are doing now is to take out the Spirits. When they take out the Spirit from a person they keep it with them. Like the children, small children die in their sleep. If a mother is here and she has a child in America, and she says, “I want to talk to my child through a medium,” it’s a very dangerous thing. Never play with these mediums, very dangerous. And such a mother I know in Switzerland, she did that to a child and the child died in America, in the sleep. Because the distance is such that where there is day there is night; she was doing this in the daytime and the child was sleeping. She talked to the child, she heard his voice, everything she did … and the child died.

Never go near these people who deal with spirits; it’s said by all the great people of the world, but we are not bothered. They say, “What’s wrong? We go to spirits, to ESP, to our elders who are dead, to our brothers and sisters.” Why bother them now they are dead. Let them be free. As it is you tortured their lives when they lived on this Earth. Why don’t you leave them be? Let them go and take their births. But we are not satisfied. We say, “No, we must talk to them. We have seances, we hold hands, call spirits and do this.”

But do you know what happens with them? First of all no realization. Very difficult for such people. Even if you get realization and all that, you have lots of problems. I’ve seen people go mad, because these spirits are dirty things. 

Supposing you have called me. I am an Indian, so now you are exposed to India. You must know you are exposed to India and you have no control over the people who are coming down from these areas and you are just being possessed. They possess you, your family, everything and is a fact that these horrible things that act or that call or that try to show that they are helping you, are the people who are just taking money from you.

But they are going to be condemned much worse than you. The people who are mediums, who are clairvoyants, have used these things and all this, we’ll call these Guru’s from Tibet. There’s nothing like that.

Anybody who’s a realized soul will never come into anybody. No Guru can come into anybody, take it from me, because they know the value of freedom. They will never do it. It’s a very mean thing to do. To them who are dead and to yourself who is living and is such a beautiful thing created by God. You get possessed by all these nonsensical things and black magic Talisman and I don’t know how you educated people can take to it. I would say that you are naîve. Because in India we know this, we know all this, we know all this materialization and all business, we know very well.

Of course, all the young people do not know now. Because I am an ancient person, we all knew about it; we called it Bhanumati (Name of a sorceress queen), we called it Preta Vidya, Shamshana Vidya, Bhoota Vidya; there are books and books about it, what these things are done. They’re black magic, voodoo, and all sorts of things that you call them, but you have no knowledge about it. 

For example, we put all our dead bodies in the church. I don’t know who told, where is it written in the Bible? I don’t understand, why should you put your dead bodies in the church? Alright, if you want to have a church for the dead bodies, let them be along with the dead bodies. You are living people. Why do you sit on top of dead bodies there and have all the bhoots and these devils coming on you and sitting on your heads?

Only a realized soul is a person who should be buried in a church; only a realized soul. In India, it is a custom that all people are burned except for a realized soul, because they never try to possess anyone, they never try to disturb. On the contrary, they help us in so many ways. They are not the people who will just come to disturb your life or to give you some encouragement. 

Sometimes you feel very happy also with that because you feel that your responsibility is taken over, they have taken your responsibility and you feel quite relieved. In the beginning you feel quite nice; it’s a good sensation, “Oh, I feel peace,” you think, because somebody else has come into your house and he is going to use all your house and you’ll be left behind. And then you become ridiculous. Such people you’ll find put the cloth in the mouth like this, look like that, and they are very much frightened and afraid. Of course, before me they shake like this, all sorts of things happen. 

Now there is another trend about it. If you say that these are possessed people and this and that, the left side ones are even worse. Left side ones are the ones who go into the spirit business, very much, but there are two types of spirit businesses. One can give supra-concious, and one can give even subconscious. And the subconscious is very easily available because they are busy bodies, all these spirits, and in the subconscious area they are busy bodies and very mean and sly and dirty people.

For example, a woman dies young without marriage. She would like to trouble a married woman, she’s jealous. And that’s why there are certain rules and regulations in our life, one should understand, by which you should avoid all these things. Take your psychologists as their psychologists do not know what they’re facing. They treat mad people. I told you about Freud, he was half-baked because he only knew about this power of desire which he called conditioning and all that. But he did not know there was another one which is our ego. He said you take out all your conditioning; you don’t have any conditioning whatsoever. So where do you go? You land up in “What’s wrong?” Ego orientated. Then you form another cult by saying we must destroy our cult. You go on saying that to yourself, “Oh, you are good for nothing, you are useless, all the time kill your ego.” So you become a recluse. These two things happen with the extremes of this movement of this centre. Through this centre you either go to the left or the right.

Now what is the real thing? This is the center of creativity. Creativity and the knowledge of the Divine. Knowledge of the Divine is when you get your realization, you get the cool vibrations of the Holy Ghost and you have to know how to raise the Kundalini of others, and you have to know how to correct yourself. You have to know how to know all of these centers and also you have to find out all the absolute questions you have got within your mind.

This has to happen to you. This realization has to happen because this is in your own right you are having. Now you are a human being and you have to become a super human being. I’m not doing anything about it. As I said, I’m just cashing your bank accounts. But if bank accounts are so much on the left or right it’s rather difficult. You have to give lots of grace marks and sort of overdrafts are there. 

So one has to understand that better be in the centre. Not to go to these things. Why, why, for what? What are you going to gain out of these things? Are you going to go to your Spirit? Are you going to become your Self? Why, for just a little game here, a little game there? Why are you going to these horrid people? They will take you to such a horrible extreme that maybe you may not be able to return. 

In London I was surprised there was a doctor whom I knew by relationship and he came to see me and he said, “I’ve lost all my jobs, everything because I’m very depressed. I can’t work. I don’t know what happens to me. I’m extremely depressed. I’ve lost the zest to work. I do not feel anything, I’m just gone. I’m very depressed. And every time I try to work I get again depressed. I’m very tired.” I asked him did he go to anyone of these tantrikas and this type of person and he said, “Never. But my grandfather was a tantrika.” He used to do this black magic business and now see the grandson is suffering because of it. Later on he was cured.

We have one Australian here who was a Russian doctor, his grandmother had a habit of taking the child to the cemetery in the early ages of his life. He remembers that very well and after some time he became so depressed he lost his job, he couldn’t work. He used to get a headache and all sorts of things used to happen. Cramps use to come in his hands. When he came to me he got cured but it took some time because in childhood all the impressions of these spirits were there.

So one has to understand how to keep dead away from you. You have to be in the present and not in the dead. Whosoever is dead is finished. Have you ever noticed a monkey, if a child of a monkey dies, before the death the monkey will be shouting and screaming and doing all kinds of things. As soon as the thing dies it leaves. It’s not bothered. You can see with dogs and so many things, it’s not bothered about it, it knows it’s gone. That’s why it is said that if somebody is dead, think of God and you sing songs and things like that and do not indulge into it too much. But we have forgotten all those things and the way we do about dead things sometimes, it is so far. That actually most of us live, then when doing all this, we live in the past with it. We live in the past and such people also see some ghosts and things and some of them who were like this have seen my past and have been shaking before me, they all shake before me like this. They go on shaking, they cannot sit straight they go on shaking like this, they go on shaking like that, all the time their bodies shaking, they have no control over their body.

So one has to understand that these things are absolutely dangerous for human beings. We are human beings, we are not dead bodies, we are not that. But the worst thing is that those who indulge into these things are caught up by the proteins which doctors have said are nothing but these dead spirits. They are saying proteins because they don’t understand. These are the dead spirits, cancer is caused only by the attack of the dead spirits. I have not come across a single case whom I have treated, and I have treated many, who have not got the affectation of the spirit. 

Now in realization, when you get your realization, you catch up on this or this, these are the two Swadhishthan which were marked. I hope you put your hands like this. You will get your realization as well when I am talking to you. Just like this, please, and put both the feet straight on the ground, just like this.

Now I was telling you that when you put your hands like this, first the cool breeze starts flowing in. But when you have got your realization you put your hand on somebody to test it, you catch on this one. That means it is unauthorised. Unauthorised working of the Divine can be subconscious area, can be supra-conscious, can be psychologist or anyone, can catch on this. When you work on your mind. Your mind is the superego there, the blue one is the mind. When you have, somehow or other, gone to some person or had something to do with black magic yourself, then you catch on this finger, this left Swadhishthan, as we call it. When you catch on this you have to say that you believe in the Divine working, in the pure working of the Divine and that’s called as Nirmala Vidya. Nirmala means pure, the pure knowledge of the technique of how to raise your Kundalini. When you say that, this gets alright and the spirits leave you. There are many people who have come to me who have been mad, and they say, “How by Kundalini do you cure mad people? What do you do about it?” Nothing, I just give them Kundalini awakening. Then when the Kundalini awakens, when She goes to this center, which is the second centre within us, the enlightenment takes place. The deity there of creativity gets awakened and with the light, this darkness within you just disappears, just goes away.

Epilepsy can be cured. If somebody is suffering from Epilepsy there’s a very simple method of curing that person. Extremely simple. When you come next I’ll tell you how to get such a person cured. It’s very simple.

Sahaja Yoga is a spontaneous living method by which you can cure people as a by-product of Kundalini awakening. It’s not that I’m here as a healer and I going about and, “Give me ten dollars for healing.” It’s not that. It’s just when Kundalini gets awakened you get cured. You get a good health because the Kundalini passes through this centre which is responsible for the physical side. If your physical side is alright then your health is alright. But there are other things within you. There is your emotional side and also there is your mental side and also you have got above all is the spiritual. All these things are to be enlightened through Kundalini awakening. 

The first thing that happens to you is that your health improves, no doubt. All kinds of things like paralysis, cancer, diabetes – diabetes is curable by Sahaja Yoga. This I must explain to you how diabetes is cured.

Diabetes is caused by people who think too much, again. So this centre has to work very hard and it cannot give sufficient attention to the pancreas which is on the left-hand side. Because of that the left-hand side becomes frozen and the right-hand side is working very hard. Now how do you cure your diabetes. The only way is, if you are a realized soul, you give vibrations to the pancreas and give a balance to a person. There’s a way of balancing it. If you can balance the thing, people get rid of their diabetes permanently. 

Arthritis also can be cured, but now I must tell you about the spleen which is a very important thing within us and I think everyone one of you must understand it in a full way. Spleen, we do not know how important it is within us. It is the speedometer. It looks after the speed we have. The way we are speedy these days we are really telescoping it. We talk telescopically. We walk telescopically. We are very speedy people. And this speediness comes to us when our spleen has gone crazy. 

How does the spleen go crazy? It’s very simple. Now the spleen is there to create new RBCs, red corpuscles to meet all the emergencies you go through. For example, you are eating your food and it’s an emergency. You need more of the red blood corpuscles. So this spleen starts emitting more red blood corpuscles. But at the same time you have the 9 o’clock news and you hear something horrid. Another emergency is created. Then suddenly you eat your food and run. Third emergency is created.

This poor spleen gets absolutely crazy. It does not know when to produce what blood cells. It doesn’t know what to do with you because suddenly you have three or four things together. You’ll be having your breakfast, putting one foot in the car, talking to somebody. That side you hear somebody saying, “Get in, get in.” And all this is going on simultaneously. This poor spleen doesn’t know which way to move. So it becomes crazy. And then the attack comes somehow and blood cancer is set in. Blood cancer is the result of speediness. So one has to be very careful that our spleen must be alright. I am warning you as a Mother. I know these problems. We have cured blood cancer but it’s a horrible disease and once it gets over, within one week they say it finishes off. We have cured many cases of blood cancer which were declared to dead after eight days. That’s how they give a certificate – after eight days or after one month, that’s the certificate you get in the hospital, you will die.

But in Sahaja Yoga one can try to cure them. They have been cured and when they went to the doctors, “Oh,” they said, “I know, it was really remarkable but we can’t believe it was Sahaja Yoga.” Even if a doctor is cured they’ll say, “Oh, this doctor has gone mad now. He’s talking like this. How can that be?” Here they have certified the person is going to die in eight days and there he’s cured and going strong after two years or so. They’ll say there must be something. They do not want to accept because this challenges their knowledge. 

But I am not here to take away their profession. They can have lots of patients. I am not here to cure people. It’s just the seekers who come to me for realization are blessed by divine grace and they get very good health. They get cured because they are seekers. They are the men of God, they have to become the prophets. When they become the prophets in this era, they have to convert others in the same way, and they will make them prophets.

It was said by William Blake* about a hundred years back. He has described all these things in his book Milton. You will be surprised. He has gone to such a limit of prophecy, that he was such a seer that he has even described where I lived, in Surrey Hills. “The first beacons will be lit in “…Surrey Hills, and also he has said where our ashram is going to be in the ruins because we had no money so they purchased a ruined place”… in the ruins, the foundations will be laid in Lambeth Way”. And there it is. Our ashram it has come to Lambeth Way and here is her loom vibrates the sinew of love. This is going to become the Jerusalem. Just imagine, a person a hundred years back could see. He was such a seer and he has written all about it. 

But human beings are not sensitive to things. I went to see his exhibition. He was a great artist. I was amazed. They were just seeing how he has shown nude women in the hell, just imagine. You went there to see this? This is like we went to see a flower show and there you are picking up all the filth and dirt. Is this the way to look at beautiful things? See for beauty and think of beauty and then you are beauty. Why should you desire these ugly things in life? Why should you not desire something that is so beautiful and that is your Spirit.

This the second centre I have told you. This is the one which limits our religion in the sense of our sustenance. Not the religion in the way you understand, because all these religions are just like flowers on one living tree, have been plucked by people and they say, “This is mine.” “This is mine.” “This is mine.” And they have made these flowers very ugly and such flowers are decayed.

The whole attention should be on becoming the Spirit. If it is not so, the rest of it is not God’s work. God’s work is just to awaken your Kundalini. It’s the living work because if He is the living God, He has to do the living work. His work is to transform a little flower into a fruit, which you cannot do. In the same way you cannot pulsate the Kundalini, but it will pulsate when you come to Sahaja Yoga. You will see with your naked eyes the pulsation rising over here and you can see your baptism taking place. It is written by so many people and they have said, like Kalidas has said. We had a great poet Kalidasa who has described Sahaja Yoga about three,  four hundred years back.

And we had Adi Shankaracharya who has very clearly said all these things I am telling you. But this was a knowledge limited to few people. Even Krishna talked to one, Arjuna. Christ talked to some multitudes and they crucified Him because they couldn’t understand Him, what He was talking. What was there to crucify Him. They did not recognize Him. Moses – how many people recognized him? Abraham – how many people recognized him? They were never recognized, never understood, that was the problem, and this is what one has to understand. 

The time has come now to recognize, to understand. Recognize yourself that you are the Spirit – not this body, not this mind, not this ego – but you are the Spirit. And not the gurus, so called. The one who does not give you your spiritual realization is not a Guru, is not a Guru. You must understand. You must understand this is the thing of Guru. The Primordial Master who tells you to be in the centre, who tells you all things that are to be done in the name of religion. In the name of religion everyone has said the same thing. Now I don’t say anything like that because I know how to handle the situation. 

We had a doctor in London who was an alcoholic who came to me. He got his realization and the next day he gave it up. He just didn’t want to have it. He said, “Now I am enjoying myself. I’m not bored. I don’t even remember it.” But he went to Germany and after two to three months, he said, “I used to like one wine. Let me try, how it is.” So he went and had that wine. When he had it he felt like vomiting, absolutely. He said it was smelling.

Then I don’t have to tell you don’t steal, don’t talk filthy, don’t do this – nothing. I have a granddaughter, who is a realized soul. Two children, two granddaughters are realized souls and one of them came. Later on she said, “Grandmother, did you have to read this stupid thing called as moral science?” 

I said, “No, why?” 

“This is foolish isn’t it? They tell us not to tell lies, don’t steal. Are we servants? Why should we tell lies? Why should they tell us all these things? I don’t like it.” 

So the little one says, “Oh, they are stupid people. How can they say like this? Why should we do it?” 

There is no temptation there. We don’t have to tell you there’s not a temptation. You are awakened. Your dharma is there, your sustenance is awakened.

We are human beings. if we have to pass through a dirty lane then we cannot do it. We feel horrible, we close our noses, we feel the smell of the dirt and the filth. But you take a horse, [UNCLEAR], he walks very nicely, he’s not bothered, he doesn’t get the smell. In the same way your awareness gets enlightened. Then whatever is sinful, you do not like. You just don’t like it. Whatever takes you away from Spirit you don’t like it because you lose your vibrations.

Now another center is also very important. It is for our wellbeing, called as Nabhi Chakra, about which I’ll tell you next time because already I’ve told you quite elaborately. Moreover I would like to have questions from you today, also. But, like last time, don’t go on asking questions and the same person asking. One person should ask only one question and a sensible question because you are seekers. Don’t waste your time and don’t waste time of others, alright?

Thank you very much.

Seeker: Is reincarnation is necessary until the body gains true realization?

Shri Mataji: That is again you are thinking about the past. Why to worry? You have incarnated many of times, no doubt about it. Now, at this is point where are you? There is no need to have reincarnations.  Who is going to count? From ameba to this stage, how many times you have incarnated I don’t know. Forget it. At this time you have to have your Spirit enlightened. Forget about the past. They’ll ask me, especially in India, “Was I a king? Was I this? Was I that?” I said, “I am not bothered about the history.”

There was a boy, very scholarly, who came and asked me, “Was I Napoleon in my past life?”

I said, “Why?”

He said, “Even if I was don’t tell me, otherwise I’ll jump in the sea.” 

I said, “No. Why? What makes you think that way?”

He said, “Because I’m very ego oriented. My ego is collossal and another point is that I am very good at drawing. So I think these two combinations are only possible in Napoleon.”

I said, “No, no, you were not Napoleon, don’t you worry.” 

He said, “Otherwise I would jump in the sea and take another incarnation.”

So don’t worry about these things. It can be quite diviating. There is a big show going on everywhere: “What was my last lives? Somebody said you were in Egypt.” What does it matter? Whether you were in Egypt or Timbuktu, what does it matter? This is a big story going on. People save money. Now tell me about this and they are telling also very nicely about these things. You must ask the person, “What were you last time?” Must have been a donkey. Otherwise why is he taking money for this?

Seeker: Have you read Sir Arthur’s Apocalypse.

Shri Mataji: Haan. I’ve read it, baba. I don’t know what to say. I don’t know how he wrote. There’s no honesty about it. There’re so many books. I’ve seen such big books written. I was surprised how he could write such big books without knowing anything about it. He is so confused, contradictory. I’ve always had a great admiration for Western people that they were honest, whether they did wrong or were thieves, they were honest about it. But this one, I don’t know from where did he get such courage to write about Kundalini without knowing a word about it. Horrid, absolutely. All these books, so many. This one book I read was like a person coming from a village and putting his hand into the plug and saying that I got a shock. He doesn’t know anything, they are so naîve, not only naîve but, in his case, I think, he’s not entitled, he is not suitable. You have to be a very holy person. To do that you have to become compassion, you have to be love, you have to be pure.

It’s all money-making propositions. Write about Kundalini because it is unknown. Everything is a money-making proposition these days, in the name of God, in the name of religion, in the name of Kundalini, in the name of all categories because there is no authority that can catch you, and who are you? People who are seekers, who are true seekers, who are innocent, who are simple, uncomplicated [UNCLEAR]. If you’ve read too many books, I’ll have a problem with you. 

First of all, you have to throw all these books in the sea. You have all the books in your head and you are lost. Your Self is lost. I really tell you, it’s very true. This one is standing here, with the face. He gave me such a bad time for some time. And the shaking and he had all sorts of things happen to him when he first came to me. He had read all the books from A to Z, from this side to this side. There is no book which he left. I said, “Now, at least leave one book for me to read.”

Seeker: Is there a difference between being awakened and realization?

Shri Mataji: Very good question. There is a difference between awakening and realization, it’s true. It awakens, it passes. You can see with your naked eyes in many people. If there is an obstruction, you can see it. It passes through various chakras; you can see it. In some people it is so slow-moving, otherwise it takes just a split of a second. But if there’s an obstruction you can see it and the awakening has taken place. But the breaking of the Sahasrara is the realization where you get a cool breeze in the hands. If you don’t get cool breeze in the hands at least you get cool breeze here, minimum. Sometimes this centre is very bad in many people. Then you don’t feel it in the hands but you must feel it here. But still it’s just the beginning, just the germination. Like Christ has said, “Some people fell on here and some there.” It happens like that.

So awakening is not the end of it, it’s just the beginning. It has started and then realization is established. First when the Kundalini goes over this chakra you get a state called thoughtless awareness, where there is no thought in your mind. It’s very easy to get. This is the centre of Christ. It goes above that. When it passes through all these centers of Moses and Abraham and all that, it passes through the centre of Christ, it passes through this Brahmarandra fontanel bone when you get your baptism, then you feel the cool breeze in the hands.

But it may be sucked back into a places where there is a problem. Because with me I’ve seen people get it just like that, it flows like a great river in flood. It happens, but then sometimes it comes back. But once it is awakened it is awakened. You have to learn how to establish it.

It’s a very good question my child.

Seeker: there’s one school of thought describes enlightenment as a static process. What you’ve described is a dynamic process.

Shri Mataji: Yes, it’s not static; how can that be? It’s a living process. You become collectively conscious. You become that. You become really dynamic because your awareness has a new dimension. You become collectively conscious, you start feeling another personality, you start feeling your Self, you start getting the power how to raise the Kundalini; you don’t know how many powers you get. 

It’s like this: say, you get a big, huge a television. If I say there is music here, song here, drama here – it’s a myth. We can’t see anything. You bring a television and put it to the mains, you see the miracle. That’s what you are; you are really dynamic, immediately. Dynamic is not the word; there is no word to describe how you are made. It’s so beautifully done. Once you are put to the mains all your powers start flowing. There’s no end to it. It’s so miraculous, so wonderful. 

I wish you could see one of my photographs that they have taken which you would not be able to explain; I think next time I will bring it along. You become so dynamic. If you have seen in my book, Advent, is a person, a very ordinary person. He was a gardener, got his realization and he had never handled a camera or he did not know how to handle a camera. He once took a camera and took my photograph and that is such a wonderful photograph he has taken. Since then he has discovered he can take photographs very well, he can paint very well, he can sing very well. And you become really so dynamic and inexhausting, go on producing art. Still, human beings, as they are, they get caught up in ego, get caught up in superego. But, I must say, Mohammed Saheb is the one who has told us lots of things, lots of secrets, how to get rid of all these things. They all have added to the knowledge of Sahaja Yoga to such an extent that we should have gratitude for all of them.

Seeker: What is the difference between mind or consciousness and spirit and spirit or consciousness which isn’t mind?

Shri Mataji: This is a subject I’ll be discussing later on at length. But the Spirit is the one that resides in the heart which is the reflection of God Almighty. By knowing the Spirit only you become collectively conscious and that’s why you know the universal being is God. This is a simple answer and another is maya, is that black thing you see there. She’s a maya which is the conditioned stuff called as superego. And the intellect is the one that is on this side, is the ego, Mr. Ego. So it’s all limited stuff within ourself. So this stuff is very different and this one is in the centre of it. That’s a very different thing. So all these things I’ll be explaining later on when I’ll be discussing all these points.

Seeker: Could you just repeat what you were saying before about the thumbs?

Shri Mataji: Yes, these fingers, as you see there, are suggestive of the centres that are within us. This finger, if you see the thumb, has got the same color as that. So when you find a burning on the fingers or you find numbness; numbness is bad because numbness is a suggestive of death, or towards death or thinking of death. I’ve seen people from Sweden, those people all have numb fingers. They are a cult and I said, “What are doing?” They said, “We are planning how to commit suicide.” This is a result of their affluence. Young people, from 17 to 21 are just learning how to commit suicide and there is a competition between the Swiss and the Swedish and these days Swiss are higher.

This finger, this thumb is responsible for this centre. If you have a problem in your liver you’ll feel this pulsing. Nabhi is the centre. You can see that. You have got the book. Please buy the book from these people, which is, of course, at a very nominal price whatever they have taken for printing and go through it and see for yourself what it is.

Seeker: After so many prophets have been writing so much, why is it that it’s been so hidden and the truth has been very difficult to see?

Shri Mataji: It is very difficult. Human beings, really, I don’t know what to call them because they never understand what Christ – They didn’t allow Him to live for four years. What to do? Abraham, Moses, you know what they did to them. All the prophets, what you did to them. There are so many good gurus in India. In Jammu I know a very good one, and also in England I know one but they are hiding. They don’t want to fix it. I told them, I asked one of them to go to America, with big coaxing. I paid them money. I said, “Please, go and work with them. I can’t go to America.”   

Within three days he ran away from New York and he said, “Mother, I can’t do these people. They do not want their Spirit. They want other things, they want money, they want this, they want that.” They do not understand before, they would never recognize before. That’s why Christ had said one thing that, “I’ll forgive you anything you have done against Me. But against the Holy Ghost nothing would be forgiven.” Because you will know what the Holy Ghost is.

Recognition is the most difficult thing for the ego. There was a lady today who said, “Why should you do it?” 

I said, “I’d be very happy if you can do it. Imagine, I am a happily married woman. I’ve got my children and grandchildren. If somebody could do it, I’d be very happy. Why you should do it? Why do you feel your ego challenged? You had better do it. I don’t know anything. Many things I don’t know, like I can’t drive, I can’t type, I cannot do many things. But I don’t feel bad about it. Now I know this job. If I am doing it free, what is the harm? Now, if you can do it, then I would be very happy to retire.”

She said, “I don’t know.”

I said, “Let me do it.” They feel hurt you know, that I have to do it. But you can do it yourself. But first of all, get yourself enlightened. If the mother knows how to cook, let her cook. It’s a terrible job. Every night you sleep at 1 o’clock, 2 o’clock, get up at about 4 o’clock. Work like a… I don’t know what. And in the end you find people challenge you, “Why should you do it?” There are all kinds of people in England. Somebody asked me, “Why don’t you remove the poverty of India?” Just imagine.

I said, “Now, I’m not here to remove poverty or anything. I’m here to give Self realization.” I said, “But I’m sorry it why you should ask such a question to me? Because who is responsible for our poverty in India? Who is? I shouldn’t say that. I’m sitting here in England on your soil. Who is responsible for the poverty of India? Such a question you are asking me. You please answer. Three hundred years they ruled us and now who is teaching me that I should go and remove the poverty of India. They still come. The second question that comes up. The great learned man, he said, “What about your population problem? Why don’t you solve it?”

I said. “I’m sorry, you are also responsible for that.”

He said, “How? How do we increase your population?”

I said, “You do.”

He said, “How?”

I said, “Very simple. In this  country of yours, this great country of yours, every day, two children are killed by the parents. [UNCLEAR] children are killed by the parents. Now which fool would like to take birth in this country of yours? We have to bear the load. Because you don’t have good parents, good mothers, mothers are becoming liberated, husbands are becoming abandoned. Who would like to take birth and you are having minus growth. Who should bear the growth because last judgement has started and people are taking their births and we have to bear the load in India and we are doing this for overpopulation. What should we do?

It’s a curse, ultimately. It’s a fact. If you don’t have good families, if you don’t have love, if you don’t have good homes, why are children being born to you? Would you be born to parents where the father is a drunkard and the mother is liberated? Why should that people produce children I don’t understand. They don’t. In Germany they pay so much for a woman to produce a child but they don’t want to produce. They have funny ideas. In India if a woman doesn’t get a child, she will go to all those holy places, to all the saints and she’ll do everything to get the child. See the difference? So who is responsible for our overpopulation? You please tell me.

So, prophets are not responsible, it’s the human beings. They don’t want to listen to a… To me, I don’t know how many of you are really going to settle down. But I’ll see to it; I’m quite tricky. I learnt lots of things in my last lives. I’m quite an expert.

Seeker: A child who is brought up in what she describes as a good home with all the balance, dharma and so on, why does that child of two years die of cancer?
Shri Mataji: If I could see the child, I would be able to tell you because it is a very hypothetical case you are giving me. I would like to see the child. Not I’m saying you get cancer because you lead a bad life – not at all. Sometimes very good people get it. They get affected by it.
Say, there is a mother who is very strict. “Don’t do this.” “Don’t do that.” “Why don’t you get up early in the morning?” This, that, all the time speeds up the child. The child doesn’t know what to do. This disciplining. And then somebody comes in the house, “Why did you say like that? Why did you split the thing? Why? This carpet is more important than the child? This sofa is more important than the child. Then the child gets upset. It’s very common.

The child is not given proper attention, neither proper dignity. He’s still led that like somebody who is a nuisance. Such a child can get blood cancer if the mother is extremely strict. Some children are slow; so let them be slow. Some people get up early in the morning, some  get up a little late. Why make them such good citizens from their childhood. I’ve seen a few who are really great citizens.  Let the children play. Let them enjoy themselves and you enjoy them. Let them live like flowers. They don’t. We try to discipline them and this disciplining is responsible for the teenage problem in all these countries.

Seeker: It was detected at a very early age, a Ganesha problem.
Shri Mataji: Oh, no. You see, my child, I know you are upset about it. But if I’d seen the case then I would have asked other questions. It’s very hypothetical, I’m saying. It could be something like that. People can detect, they cannot cure and there are many cases like that, many cases. There are some great souls who are born on this Earth; they take the load of others and die. Also, it’s possible. There can be anything. If I had seen the child, I would have told you. But just now, the patient is not before me, so it’s so hypothetical. You understand that, you see.

But if I had seen the child as I told you- you’d be amazed, recently somebody showed me a photograph of a child who was born realized. It’s such a mature child. And his mother is taking a divorce and the father is an alcoholic. What would this poor child do? Just think of it. He is a born Realized child. He may take the load off his parents and may something happen to him, he may. It happens to many children after they take the load off their parents, especially the parents are quarrelling all the time. The children take the load. That’s why they go mad, it may happen. You see, anything can happen to them.
There are violence’s things and violence is another kind of a possession only. There are many things. You cannot blame God for that. I know your worries are all right, but you don’t know who was in the house, how it happened, you cannot say, you see. It can be some sort of a thing, all right? If you tell me the whole case, privately, I will tell you what was the reason, all right?

Seeker: How does the Kundalini become awakened?

Shri Mataji: Ah, that’s it, That’s what I am going to do. That’s the million dollar question.

I never say that because of your wrong doings or anything that these things happen, not that. It can be any reason. But some of the reasons are these. A person can die of starvation, because of the social problem, somebody can die of something. If you put the child in the sun he could get sun stroke; if you put him in the cold he could die or anything could happen. Not that you all have to die, that’s also definite. But the disease is… Another way of logic is the why you get certain diseases. It’s not entirely, there are other reasons also, but most of these are the reasons. This is the logical way of looking at this.  It’s not that you are bad people, not at all. You are people who got lost very much. But you must know that if you make a mistake, say, if you put hot water on your hand it will burn, it has the capacity to burn. In the same way if you make some mistakes unknowingly because of your mind’s understanding of a subject it will happen, it happens like that many a time.

Seeker: What if one of the chakras damaged by accident, if you have a severe accident of some sort and a spinal injury takes place…

Shri Mataji: It has a problem if it is damaged but still I have seen it in Sahaja Yoga. We have people who are spastic and who have suffered back bones, who have broken back bones. They became straight and they started… Yesterday we had a case like that. There was a gentleman who used to use a stick when he walked, from childhood he was limping; he could not walk without a support. Now he walks without a support; he doesn’t drag his legs; he can stand on his legs. So, it can happen still. So even if it is damaged you shouldn’t worry. We have to work it out. Krishna has said,  “Karmanye vadhikaraste Ma Phaleshu Kadachana,“means you have to do the job, you have to work it out, don’t worry about the fruits. That’s what my attitude is: if I do not do it, you are not going to hit me hard are you? If I cannot do it, I just cannot do it. I’m not yet selling anything nor have I taken anything from you. I’ll try and try and try. That’s all I can say. All right? Quite fair?

Seeker: Do you use different healing processes for different illnesses or is it the same process?

Shri Mataji: No, Kundalini is the basic thing. But it passes through various chakras and how to awaken the various chakras and deities we have to tell you how to do it. That’s what you have to learn and certain things like vibrated water and vibrated certain things are given to you to eat. For example liver people should eat sugar, which is cane sugar and that is vibrated. Then the diabetes people have to eat salt which is vibrated. Some things like that also help to expedite. So, there some few things like that are very simple and very cheap.

Once I asked a lady that, “You bring one kilo of sugar.” And she was surprised. She thought I was going to take from her the sugar and open up a market of sugar. So you have to vibrate the sugar and when take the sugar home, you can eat it. It’s very simple; all very simple methods. I would request you to keep the Sunday free. I will definitely make myself available for you and I will tell you how to raise the Kundalini and how to give realization and how to read people. But we are not healers yet, we are Realized souls.

Seeker: Can you tell me what [UNCLEAR]

Shri Mataji: What are you wearing in your neck?

Warren: She is just wearing some beads. She wants to know what wrong did she do to cause her to…

Shri Mataji: No, she may not have done anything wrong. I would tell her what is the method entirely. But I will tell you what happens how accidents take place. Accidents take place because there are some spirits who are trying to disturb. They are there. Negative people who are there, not necessarily that you have done any wrong. There is a big fight going on between the Divine and the negative and they will always try to harm a seeker. From the very childhood a seeker is attacked, the better he is attacked more. It’s very common, I have seen. But I am here to cure it. I know it happens. It’s very bad but they are doing it and they do it all the time. They [UNCLEAR  just waiting] even when you get your realization. When you go out they will capture you and they put ideas into your head. They do all kinds of things. 

So this is one idea to take out from your mind that there is any pain or any trouble it is because of your wrong or any mistakes. It can be the negative forces that can act upon you which are working it out. Even on the road you will find one spot you will always find an accident. But if you are a realized soul, if you get in an accident then you do not get into trouble and nobody gets: if you are in the car, in the bus or even in the train. It is the experience of many people; your are always saved. This is the difference because all the angels look after you.

Seeker: Why do negative forces want to harm people?

Shri Mataji: You’d better go and ask them. They are sadists; they enjoy hurting others; they like to destroy, they are destroying forces which are at play. They are all trying to destroy us in many ways. We have to be conscious of them and understand they are very deceptive and they are very attractive. You do not know why the destruction is not going to come from outside, it’s going to come from within you. One has to understand all these things. Through Sahaja Yoga when you have the light you start seeing them and how they work it out.

Seeker: How should we protect ourselves?

Shri Mataji: Yes, that is very important and that’s why I am saying you must come where he is saying. We will teach u everything. So many things are to be taught, isn’t it?. How to protect, that’s very important. Its important. You are to be protected, no doubt.

Now, is it over? I think they have had enough of it. Let’s have the Kundalini awakening, alright? 

You have to take out your shoes because the Mother Earth also helps us a lot. 

That’s the star, eh? The juniper. This chakra.

Warren: The Star of David.

Shri Mataji: This one is the star of David. This chakra is the fifth. This one is. But how many understand? That’s the problem.

*(about William Blake)