Talk to new Sahaja Yogis

Burwood Ashram, Sydney (Australia)


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Transcript - Version Date: 2017-0725
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Talk to new Sahaja Yogis

Mr. Modi : This Nirvichar Samadhi comes to you because of the Adishakti.  This we found. This aspect of Adishkati we found in Mataji.  And therefore there was no question.  When the state of thoughtless awareness came…

Shri Mataji :  (speaking in Marathi)

Mr. Modi: ok.

Shri Mataji: …else they will not understand. You see he is so clear cut.  But he knows the difference between the mesmerism and the nirvichara Samadhi. So It’s better to tell the other way around I said.  Because you see, he is there clear cut, you see.  But you do not know that part that’s why.  [UNCLEAR TEXT] You don’t know.  They confuse nivichar Samadhi with mesmerism.

Woman: Ah..yeah

Shri Mataji: Also you see…

Mr. Modi : Well if you are mesmerized and got the nirvichar samadhi the greatest difference will be…kundalini will be frozen as it should be.  And therefore

(Shri Mataji and Mr. Modi speaking in Marathi)

Shri Mataji: Yes.

(Laughter)

Shri Mataji : You see because this is not there explained in any of your…any books.  So how will you know.  You see, that mesmerism what happens? You see and what is a kundalini awakening and with Kundalini awakening you get nivichar Samadhi.  You see means crossing of the agya.  Is not possible without the Primordial Mother being there.  She is the only one who can do it.  It’s precisely said.  In am-mass basis though it is out of question for anybody else.  It’s very clearly…I mean books after books are written like this.

Mr. Modi: And Indian scriptures are full of these things.  But when the kundalini rises…I mean by collective consciousness one can feel that well in a particular person if I can see which state of kundalini… whether it has risen or not?  Whether thoughtless awareness is felt or not?  This has to happen by the grace of Adishakti.  And we have found out ourselves that it is because of Mataji this has happened.  If Mataji was not there this would have never happened.  And therefore we feel that kundalini awakening is a must.  After kundalini is awakened by the Grace of Shri Mataji you should get a thoughtless awareness state in your own total freedom.  There cannot be a bias to it.  If there is a bias kundalini will not again rise.  And all these expressions which we have felt…this can be seen by another sahaja yogi.  That is why Mataji in my first lecture I told them that first of all rather than questioning you go into the meditation.  And feel where is your kundalini.  Can you feel your kundalini?  If you can’t feel your kundalini something is wrong with you.  Find out…(Shri Mataji gestures laughingly and is followed by crowd laughing)

Shri Mataji : He is at that level you know. (Shri Mataji’s hand held high) Actually he is…Modi is at a very high level also.

Mr. Modi : Mother but many of them have felt it.

Shri Mataji : No no..

Mr. Modi : They have found out their chakras.  They have found out their defect.  Of course this fifty percent of this group was not here.  First meditation program was there. Fifty percent of the group had probably gone to Wurunda and they were not over there.  So this more or less a repetition for them.

Shri Mataji : You see, what he is saying is true. But you see, the thing is they do not have ego problems there. This is the main thing he doesn’t know.  What happens when you are mesmerized or you are ego pampered, you see, you cannot differentiate because basically they know that the kundalini has to rise.  Now how do you know there is kundalini rising.  That they should…must feel cool breeze on their back.  You see so they know it is…kundalini has risen.  You see, anybody whose kundalini is risen they know that it is risen.  Whether I am there or not to tell them is not the point.  But they know it is the cool breeze that shows.  You see here the people can even doubt that.  You see.  Because basic knowledge  you don’t have, right?  This is the basic problem, you see.  They are at that level…they know most…you see they know what is what.  Supposing you know what is Australia.  Alright then you know this is the place you have landed.  This is the place.  But if you don’t know about it and you never heard about it.  People have not even heard of the name kundalini, what it is supposed to be.  You see so many people thought kundalini was the horoscope.  (Laughter by crowd)  Yeah.  With such people when you are talking then they have doubts. Isn’t it?  This is the problem.  But in the…. India you see, people know that I awaken kundalini, that they know that I am the Adishakti and they know everything but they do not have the desires as you have to be awakened.  This is the problem.  That’s why he is meaning they are very deep.  They are.  They are seekers.  And there we don’t have seekers.  You see as if when you have teeth you don’t have food and when you have food you don’t have teeth.  This is the thing.  So when he is saying that, he is saying from that level where the understanding is complete for Indians.  Anybody who is brought up in Indian culture, who knows something about Indian philosophy and Indian things, who knows, who’s a Hindu, in the sense that he has studied Adi Shankaracharya, who was the founder of Hinduism at that time.  If he has read it then he knows for definite that this is this. You see they know all the background of bible.  For them it is not difficult to accept Christ at all.  Just like that they are understood.  Because He is described in their bibles…in their books.  He is described clearly that He is like this, He will be like this..He will be that…So they can put two-two together.  His name is Maha Vishnu – doesn’t matter.  So for them it is easier because they already have read it…about it.  But are they not… they don’t want it….they don’t want realization yet because they are still developing countries, you see.  While you want it but your ego is so developed that you are just questioning Me.  Why so?  That’s what he cannot understand because they don’t question Me.  [UNCLEAR TEXT] are seekers and they just want it.  That’s all.  Finished.  Thousands you know six thousand people coming just …from all village they come by bullock carts this that…they get realization.  Six thousand people you can see very clearly.

Man : They all use simple bullock carts.

Shri Mataji : Very simple people.  And here this is the problem.  Is that you question all the time, question.  You don’t know…you want realization still you question.

Lady:  This is… is it about education?

Shri Mataji : I don’t know.  Whatever it is.  I don’t want to blame anything.  But it is true.  I mean because you have had no education about it also.   I mean you don’t know what it is.  That’s what I said bible you understand so narrowly.  It’s so deep.  To say only that it’s alpha and omega.  Now what do you mean by that? There is a big mantra on that.

(Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi)

Shri Mataji: He’ll say the whole thing.  What describes Christ….now you listen to him.

(Shri Mataji Speaks in Marathi- ha suna,  atharva shirsha mandha)

Shri Mataji: Complete…this is the description.  See now.

Mr. Modi : That is the description of Lord Jesus. 

Om twameva pratyaksham tatvamasi,

Twameva kevalam kartasi,

Twameva kevalam dhartasi,

Twameva savadam kalvidam bhrahmasi,

Twam sakshat atma si nityam,

Ritam vachmi, satyam vachmi,

Ava twamam, ava vaktaram,

Ava shrotaram, Ava dhataram,

Avanu chananam, ava paschatat,

Shri Mataji:  These are the aspects of his powers.

Mr. Modi : Ava purastat.

Ava chodhvaratat, Ava dharatat,

Sarvato mam pahi pahi samantat,

Twam vangmayas twam chin mayas,

Twam anandamays twam bhrahma mayas,

Twam sachidanada dwitiyosi, Twam pratyaksham bhrahmasi,

Twam gyanamyo vigyana mayosi, Saravam jagadidam twato jayate,

Sarvam Jagadidam twatishtasthiti, Sarvam jagadidam twayi pratyeti,

Twam bhoomi rapo nalo nilo nabhaha, Twam chatwari vakpadani,

Twam guna taraya teetaha, Twam deha traya teetaha,

Twam kala traya teetaha, Twam mooladhara sthitosi nityam,

Twam shaktit trayatmakaha, Twam yogino dhyayanti nityam,

(UNCLEAR TEXT/Mr. Modi says something in Marathi)

Shri Mataji : No no, keep saying…

Mr. Modi :  Twam yogino dhayanti nityam…

Shri Mataji:  All the yogis worship…take a…meditate on you.  Yes..I mean so many. The whole description is there.  What is alpa omega?  Alpha and omega?  What does that mean?  It’s such a vague terminology.  It’s like saying how do you go to Australia?  London and Australia finished.  What does that mean?

Mr. Modi : Twam Bhramha, Twam Vishnus, Twam Rudras, Twam Indras, Twam Agnis, Twam Vayus, Twam Sooryas, Twam Chandramas, Twam Bhrama bhoor bhuwaswarom,

Ganadhim poorvam ucharya, Varandhim tadanantaram,

Anuswara para tarah, Aradhendu lasitam, Tarenu rudham,

Etatwa manuswa roopam, Gakaro surya roopam, Akaro poorva roopam,

Anuswara chanta ritya roopam, Bindu rutatra roopam, Nadha sandhana sandhi saisha,

Ganesha vidya, Ganaka rishihi, Nichrid gayatri chandaha, Ganapatir devata,

Om Gam Ganapataye namaha.

Eka dantay vidmahe, vakratundaya demahi,

Tanno danti prachodaya, Ekadantashcha, Chaturhastam, Pasham ankusha dharinam,

Radam cha varadam hastairhi bhibhranam, Mooshaka dhwajm,

Raktam Lambodaram, Shoorpakarnakam, Rakta vasasam,

Rakta gandhanu liptangam, Rakta pushpai supoojitam,

Bhaktanu kampinam devam jagat karanam achyutam,

Aavir bhootam cha shrishtiyadau, prakritaye puroshat param,

Evam dhayayati yo nityam sa yogi yoginam varaha.

Namo Vratapatayae, Namo Prathama patayae,

Namaste Ganapataye….Namaste Ganapataye

Asthu Lambodaraya, eka dantaya vighna nashine,

Shri Shiva sutaya, Shri Varada moortaye Namo Namaha.

Sakshat Shri Mataji Shri Nirmal devi namo namaha.

This is the description of….

Shri Mataji :  This is one of the.  One of the.  There are thousands name, thousand names.  From alpha to omega.  And omega to alpha.

Mr. Modi : Now the translation if you want to know it will take at least two hours to tell you the translation.  Rather than getting the translation I wish you to take the experience.  And that is why in my earlier talk I requested that let the attention, your individual attention which is outward be inward towards yourself, towards your kundalini, towards your chakras and try to feel them.  Try to find out where you feel your chakras.  I requested you earlier in the gross side whether you feel the chakras outside?  Whether you can feel them in your spinal chord?  Which are the locations?  Can you can you feel them in your hand?  Can you feel them in your head?  Can you feel them in your feet?  Try and feel.  This is what I have requested earlier and requested most of you to go into the meditation. 

And I have found that some of you were so deep in meditation that I had a desire to request them, “Can you say what has happened to you?”  I am sure nobody would have been able to describe what sort of depth they have achieved.  So in order to know that one has to go deep into meditation again and again and find out for themselves what they have.  What they have achieved?  What they have got?  How do they feel it?  Where are the problems?  How do they feel their problems?  And how would they like to sort them up?  So in order to give them a little opportunity to talk to other sahaja yogis we had a break.  Instead of half an hour it went through more than one hour.  And may be some of them would have got their doubts to a certain extent sorted out.  We thought that after that we can again go into the meditation.  And feel for yourself what you feel.  For all the sahaja yogis who have been staying in this house they know through and through how the divinity has been working through them and how they are decently, extraordinarily blessed by Mataji.

Shri Mataji :  (speaking in Marathi)……………..

Mr. Modi : We have also found out that…as I had explained in my earlier talk Mother that we have also, like you lots and lots of questions but when we got it there was no point in asking questions to the Mother.  So may be in the last ten years I might have asked probably only a few questions, only a few questions just by the way.  I don’t think I have asked….because all my questions …..if I put the same question to myself I would get the answer by the grace of Mother.  Because it is Her power.  It is Mataji’s power that works out the opening of chakras.  It is Matajis power which has helped us to feel the deities on each chakras.  It is Mataji’s power with which we learn to feel the Kundalini.  It is Mataji’s power with which we learn how to give an awakening to ……

Shri Mataji: (in Marathi)

Mr. Modi : And since for us it is an origination as Mataji.  And for Mataji She has developed this science by Herself.  If She has developed it, She knows everything.  And lucky enough She can answer any question also.  But it is wise that I don’t express myself so openly that, “What am I?”  And let me not be open to all the sahaja yogis because they know me.  They know what are the chakras I am catching.  They know what are the things I am catching.  So let me not be so open, I would say that.  So let us….

Shri Mataji : I’ll give you an example now. Please. I think just now you can tell what happened about the flowers.  Just tell them. Simple example, yesterday it happened.  You see how the attention works.  You just see. It’s very simple.

Man :  Well yesterday we had puja for Mataji. And as many of you will know…

Shri Mataji : New year’s day. New year’s day it was a Ganesha’s puja.

Man : New year’s day….I think in Indian calendar.

Shri Mataji : And Ganesha’s puja.

Man : And we were worshipping Mataji as Shri Ganesh…

Because we in Austalia have been blessed to be named the mooladhara chakra.  But in that worship many of the things that we do…in worship include such things as mantras, shlokas and various other things. But inclusive of flowers of course.  Very important.  And each one of us decided to put flowers at the Feet of Mataji making a beautiful array at Her Feet.  And I asked Mataji on the way here, as driving along in the car, “What are the flowers Mother that would be most acceptable, that befit on this special day of the beginning of the year, and for Shri Ganesh?”  So She said, “Well, red flowers.  Pink or red flowers would be best”  And then She looked out of the window as we were driving along and there were the hibiscus flowers everywhere.  She said, “They are the ones.”

Shri Mataji : Javakusum as they are called.

Man: They’ve got another name in Sanskrit…. 

Shri Mataji : In Sanskrit they are called javakusum. Is very much…Ganesha is always worshipped with javakusum.

Man: And the hibiscus were there by the road.

Shri Mataji : And the Gauri also.  And another was the Virgin.  We worship Virgin and Ganesha. So they both like javausum.  It’s a very famous thing in all the Indian scriptures.  So I said, “This one javakusum.  This hibiscus…”

Man: So when we got here, we said nothing.

Shri Mataji : No, he said we will tell them by phone, isn’t it?

Man : We said nothing.

Shri Mataji: No no, but he did not tell. You see what I am saying is that I told him better to inform them to get javakusum.

Man: And when we got here nothing was said but later on in puja a very big basket of hibiscus flowers just arrived.  Everybody had been out picking the hibiscus flowers.  This is what is happening in collective consciousness.

Shri Mataji : And the garland was made of…..Garland also was of…

Man : The garland was also made. Yes, this was absolutely spontaneous.  So this is collective consciousness.  As one person thinks we all share and we all get the same thoughts. 

And if so, this behooves us to be together in a positive atmosphere.  And this means we are all sharing and working it out.  It’s really beautiful.

Shri Mataji: It is the same attention you see. Your attention is enlightened now and it looks after. Like he asked me what are the flowers which are auspicious?  I said that way many are.  You don’t have all these flowers.  And petunia is one of them I was telling.  But today being Ganesha’s and Gauri’s day its javakusum, is the red flower I saw. I said this is the one.  This one is the one.  It’s very good.  He said, “Really, then I must tell them to get it.” I said, “You better telephone to them.”  But there was no chance.  When we came here there was a garland of that, the whole thing of that and they had only collected those flowers.  I don’t know what happened.  And they said they just got it.

Like this place you are occupying itself, you see. They had sold their house. They wanted to buy a big place…and to sleep there. All of them wanted to live you see.  And they told about 200 people here, the property dealers to get them a house, purchase or something like that.  There were only two houses available at a very high price, see, for sale.  But they did not know how to manage that you see.  And then Meera one of them telephoned to Me and saying that they have no house, nothing, they are very upset this that.  She was so upset on the phone.  So she said what to do.  So I said, “Alright we will get it tomorrow.”  She was surprised I am not that precise and that I said, “Now you will get it tomorrow.  Don’t you worry.” Then really they got this tomorrow.  That’s what happened.  Really the very next day they got it.  And they were surprised.  How it happened?  Suddenly they got it.  And it’s such a big place, you just see. Don’t get it on rent and things… just they got it. So it’s only the attention you see it works out.

But one should not ask out for material things.  It’s better to ask for spiritual things.  You see, material things are looked after just like that.  No problem. But you must ask for…really for the spiritual and that is the best way.  And as far as doubting is concerned is a problem of ego, you see. And you doubt everything.  But what do you doubt for?  This is the point you see.  Because, why? Why should be there doubt about Me?  Now let’s think the other way round.  I am not a person who is floating any business.  There’s no possibility.  My husband earns very…lot of money and I come from a rich family.  So money doesn’t matter.  My husband holds a very big high position in life.  So I don’t want any position either.  Alright, thirdly it could be that I am running political stunt or something like that or working some political leader.  So have no identification with any political parties.  So now why…why am I doing this?  Clear and simple.  What remains last is love.  It’s purely love.  I mean I do not take any advantage of it or credit of it or nothing.  It’s just love.  Simple thing like that.

Now what are you questioning.  Do you go and question the sun?  Why do you give us light?  I mean the way some of them ask Me question, “Why do you come to Australia? What is the need for you to do this?”  I mean imagine as if by coming to Austraia am taking away their lives or what am I doing to them?  Very rude you see some of them.  I was surprised.  Somebody comes to give you love and to emancipate you and give you the divine love and that is how you treat. But it’s better than crucifixion.  So I don’t mind because I am used to all kinds of things.  But you better not miss the point by your ego because you start doubting, thinking.  It’s nonsense.

See what he said, nirvichar Samadhi is very different from mesmerism.  Mesmerism  – what happens, that you just get lost.  You have no powers in you.  You see apart from the cool breeze what happens when you get mesmerized. What happens?  You feel for the person.  You want to do anything with them.  You give all the money. You give this. You want to this and do that.  You feel happy also.  Because there’s somebody else who is working it out.  Some extent you feel happy, to some extent.  It’s like getting drunk.  But you lose all your powers.  You have no powers.  You are not empowered with anything.  You do not know what you are doing why you are doing it.  You cannot explain.  There is no logic behind it.  There is no knowledge behind it. Nothing.  You just do it because you are just driven into it.  You are mad.  That’s what it is.  You cannot explain.  You cannot understand the chakras.  You cannot say where it is catching.  Nothing of the kind.  There’s no logic behind it.  It’s just a sort of an infatuation that you are just drawn into it without even controlling yourself.  Here the control is complete.  And the transformation starts.  You just start seeing the transformation coming into you.  Absolutely it transforms.  This is what it is.  So firstly you have to know that I have nothing to earn from you.  You have to learn from Me.  You have to get something from Me.  But most of your questions are barriers for your progress.  Most of them are.  So do not… Why do you want to be your own enemy?  As it is we have built up so many things by which we are destroying ourselves.  And I have told you that the destruction is going to come from within not without.  So why do you want to do such a thing?  You have to be kind to yourself and reconstruct yourself.  And you will be surprised at your own transformation.  You become a different person altogether.  But still because of ego and superego you stick on to the past.  You just think, ”Oh I was an egg.  Why should I become a chick?”  The question is just like this now, “I am an egg. Why should I become a chick? And when I become the chick also I…” You go on saying, “Still the shells are there so we are struggling with the shells, breaking them.”  Better to break them out and come. Come out of it. Come out of that shell.  This is what it is.  And these shells are…can be very dangerous for your progress, very dangerous. 

So when I go away I know this happens many a times.  Should not happen but suddenly there will be a big attack from the negativity.  Big attack will come.  Remember the day of your realization, the feeling of your realization.  They are all standing around to attack.  When the big attack comes and one person starts murmuring.  Christ has said about the murmuring souls.  Half-baked people just jump into it.  You see just have now perched on the edge. So you are bending this side and that side equally.  When I am there you are bending that side.  When I go away you may just drop down.  So first of all stabilize yourself.  That what Modi said, stabilize, stabilize, stabilize.  You must stabilize yourself.  If you stabilize yourself in full awareness…Not that I like it and I like it.  You should know what the chakras is catching.  Face it.  I like it, I am in seventh heaven, all these fool’s paradise are of no use to Me.  You have to face it as reality.  See for yourself.  Where is your chakra catching?  What chakra is catching?  How to cure it?  How to put it right?  And then you’ll see…you will be on top of the world.  Really, it’s very interesting.  You’ll be free of these worries. Free of all these problems.

Just now your sahastrara is catching. Just imagine.  Now this is the worst thing that should catch.  Not everybody’s but of some people.  By that others are also catching. That’s why people who are doubting type, who are negative type we ask them to get out because we start sharing with them.  That’s why there’s a problem.  Now as Modi has said that for them it is very easy to know what I am. If they see the kundalini rising they know it’s Me because it’s written down, very clearly. Not in one book but at least any book that has anything to do with kundalini or anything to do with God.  So they know.  This is a very big handicap the western people have.  And there are more [UNCLEAR TEXT/ cries] as they like.  Because you see there’s a way of believing.  It’s an organized way of moving.  You see like Seventh Day Adventist or Born Again Adventist.  All sort of things.  Because the books that are written are not by realized souls.  Now even bible was not written by Christ, for your information.  Even bible was not written by Christ.  Somebody can say Geeta is the last one.  It was not written by Shri Krishna. None of them have written any books so far.  Thank God for that.  Because they would have changed those book and said this Krishna said and this Christ said.  So what is the authority of the bible if you say it is Christ?  Christ has never written it, finished.  Now what is the authority of Christ you will only know when you are realized?  Just put your hands towards Me and ask the question was he the Son of God?  And you’ll feel the vibration.

Because for Indians it is very difficult to accept Christ as Shri Ganesh, who is so powerful but yet nobody can reach Him and He was crucified. They cannot believe it.  It is impossible for them to have such a miserable picture of Ganesha.  They can’t believe it.  Moreover the way we put Christ which is skeletons, see, it’s impossible for these people to believe that such a powerful personality is put like this.  This is all our own imagination about Christ.  He was never miserable.  He was a very healthy hefty man.  I always said he could be always compared with any Australian.  Only he has been properly, let Me say, painted by Michelangelo who was a realized soul in Sistine chapel.  He has shown a powerful man standing with a big stomach like that throwing people here and there.  And this is what one has to understand that our conditioning has really narrowed us very low.  And that narrowing has to be expanded. But thank God there is no organized religion in India. So they have made a mess out of it.  But that doesn’t matter.  They make fun of all the priest who come to their house.  Do any worship and all that. They treat them just like useless people.  Because they know mantras that’s why they say… They have no respect as they have respect for our priest you know.  These priests who come to us are also not realized souls.  If they are not realized then how can they talk about God.  They cannot. What is their understanding?  You see whatever they have read in the theological college from other unrealized people blind leading the blind into blind.  Isn’t it?  So we have to see.  We have to see that there is knowledge much beyond our narrow vision.  That’s why I have told you already.  And getting into your realization you jump into it in no time.  As Modi has said he does not have to ask me questions.  It’s true.  The whole knowledge is within you.  You just start putting your attention to that knowledge.  Then you get the answer.

Somebody asked me in Australia, “All your disciples are the scholars?” I said, “What makes you think?” “They are so knowledgeable.” I said, “They have become knowledge, that’s why.” They are so knowledgeable. Even a little girl Amanda, who is hardly I think… what is here age…is about..?

Yogini: Thirty

Shri Mataji: About thirty.  She speaks like a learned master.  Really! Here she is.  If you read her poem you will be surprised how beautifully she knows about things. So this is what should happen. But when you are mesmerized you just go…gaga…That’s my guru. That’s my this thing. Go on sitting like, moving like this all the time.  Like a madcap.  And if somebody talks to you they just think that you are off your head.  You are all saying Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama like a madcap. 

Or somebody who is jumping in the thing.  I said, “What did you do?”  “I did flying sidhis, you see.”  He can’t keep his seat alright.  And what flying is he going to do?  Jumping in the air.  Mad! really I tell you, one boy…he came to us. We don’t know if he had had experience or no experience.  They just took My name and he jumped so far as that.  He just can’t look at Me.  He started rolling and ‘hoohoohoo’ he was on.  They said, “What’s the matter?”  He said, “I can’t look at Mother.”  You see, She is just…I am so frightened of Her.  What are you frightened about? There’s a bhoot in him who is just frightened.  All sort of things we have had.  Horrible!  And they would come and scream in the ashram and this.  So you see people from these things coming and we get the bad name for nothing at all. (Laughter)

Very true.  I wish this should not happen with this ashram, I beg of you.  If you are screaming type you finish all that exhausted at home and then come back.  You see we don’t want to have a bad name for nothing at all here.  People jumping…you see all kinds of people coming to here because it’s an open thing.  But they come here and start jumping and screaming and shouting and growling.  The neighbors see us…and they’ll put a notice against us.  That’s exactly what happened you know in London.  We had to change our place. And they…they themselves live like recluses in their little ashrams and this and that.  Then they took out their clothes and jump and do all kinds of thing.  And we are decent normal people, we live decently.  And it is so surprising the way they behave so abnormal and obnoxious and horribly smelling.  Their body is smelling and it’s too much.  And we did not know what to do with them.  So we thought we should start another ashram for these people and from there they are cleansed then they should come in.  Because it was too much and then the public really opposed us.  And we had a bad name so we had to change the ashram.

We went to another one. And there I took  My foot down. I said anybody starts screaming ask them to get out, or shouting.  And they do not take baths for days together…and filthy people, dirty people.  They call themselves yogis. They have no sense of cleanliness, anything.  And no…they sleep.  All the time 24 hours they were sleeping you see. And we were just feeding them like children.  Like a bottle being put in a little one.  Again they wanted to sleep and sleep and sleep.  And they paid thousands of pounds you see and they have taken to nothing but sleeping.  Twenty four hours you won’t believe for weeks together.  Just sleeping, getting up little bit in the morning again taking some food, nibbling something and again sleeping.  They go on sleeping and they are mad people. They are mad, I tell you. Really mad.  So I would say you must have been to all these people doesn’t matter.  You have spend money, whatever you have done, forget it.  But please do not come here to sleep, another to scream and third to jump and fourth to take out your clothes, you see.  That’s another thing we have faced.  I have to request you for that.

In a program in India some people came.  They started taking out their clothes.  They first said, “Hwoo hwoo hwwoo”.  And we looked at them.  What are they up to?  And suddenly they started taking out their cloths.  And I, “Throw them out.”  And then they went on the street and they took out their clothes and they were arrested.  And everybody will say this happened in the Mataji’s program.  Really I tell you, we have faced such horrible things that I must tell you. 

In England also it has happened.  In England it has happened.  All kinds of things, all sorts of funny people.  You know when you go around you don’t know how many types of things you catch.  There’s no end to it.  One fellow just always used to come and go into tantrums like becoming a yogi.  He used to breath in, breath out and make big sounds and all that.  So now from where this mad man has come.  But he would not go.  We told him “Baba you go. whatever.”  I said, “Baba, whatever you want I will tell you at home. You go home.”  Then he told me that he…once he was in a war.  Somewhere he was caught and then he escaped the jail or whatever it is, from prison somewhere. And he came out and he hide himself in one of the….shamashana, what do you call it? Yeah, cemeteries, one of the cemeteries somewhere.  And in the cemetery I think some hath yogi must have caught hold of him.  And he said I have never done Hath yoga.  And his wife says once he starts he does it for three hours, four hours. He is just going rumbling into it, tumbling into it.  The whole[UNCLEAR TEXT] he is doing like that.  Now after three years he is alright.  Poor fellow, he used to vomit blood, do every sort of thing but he could not get out of that kind of a thing.  Now he is alright. Imagine three years but he used to do like that.  You see so all these bhoots and all kind of tricks they do.  They just stand up start shouting. Become so abnormal.

In Sahaja yoga you become very normal, extremely normal person.  All these abnormal thing you have to give up. Please understand.  Or if you believe in abnormality sahaja yoga is not the place.  You can go to any circus you want but not here.  There is no circus on.  You have to be normal.  You have to dress up normally.  There is no need to wear any particular dress, or any brand or any band.  It’s in the heart. It’s in the heart. It’s in your kundalini. You are not to show off.  They look exactly like you but immediately today I was coming in the car. Looked around…I knew there was something and there was a sahaja yogi.  He got his realization only two weeks back and I saw him coming. I knew.  You see if there is a sahaja yogi is there you don’t have to ask.  You just reach there.  You just reach there.

Like when the people came from England, I told these people were coming. They did not know the names or anything.  They just walked into them and they just walked into them, direct.  Vibrations!  (And) they know each other. Absolutely they know this is the sahaja yogi.  There’s a…no need to ……This knowledge that what is vibrative and what is not vibrative comes to you because it is built within you. But just it is to be released. That’s all.  Of course all these details that this centre is felt in this…and this and this and this…and all this details that I have told you is not known till before. The reason is it was never told to them.  As he said that I have done the job so I know what it is.  But even Bhramha himself, the creater Bhramha the one who was…who talked to some great seers and He said I know upto a point…beyond that I don’t know.  The only… the One, the Primodial Mother will come.  She will tell. But upto a point I can tell you.  That’s a fact.  But I am with you.  I am your own.  I am just like you, absolutely normal.  And you can talk to Me.  And you can understand.  Is this intelligible?  I speak your language.  I mean what more can we do?  I mean there cannot be anything more than that.  But now that I am born in India, I have to be born somewhere.  I am born a Christian.  I have to be born in something.  Everybody is branded, what to do.  You may be born anywhere you are branded as this and that and that.  But this branding goes to such a limit that in India people feel that Christ was born in England.  It’s such a funny thing I tell you.  So it doesn’t make a difference to Me where I was born and what I was [UNCLEAR TEXT].  Everything was done deliberately.  But I was born a Christian for a particular…reasons also.  But that doesn’t mean I am a Christian in the real sense of the world.  That…what was Christ’s religion?  In the same way you have no religion.  You are beyond religion.  Gunateet, Dharmateet. That’s just now…they described Christ.  He is beyond Dharma.  He is beyond religion.  He is beyond Gunas.  The roots, he is beyond it.  So all these things to be done…understood.  Because you are not here to profess something but you are here to be something.  Professing is a profession.  But to be is your right.  It’s what it should be.  So if you have any questions I have no objection.  Sensible question should be nice because that’s how I know your problems.

Man: I’m just gonna tell you an experience of innocence in children. On Friday my own nephew who has never seen You before, You kissed him three times on the head.  We are not gonna [UNCLEAR TEXT] him.  He asked me, “Could he have some water to drink?” and my little niece who has not seen you.  And I gave him to drink the water you energized.  And he started to laugh. And I said, “What’s funny?” and he said, “There’s a stick in my stomach.”

Next day I put on a tape of You on the radio so that my sister could hear it. He was watching TV in the lounge room. He came straight into the kitchen room where it is being played and said right way, “I think you should put on a candle.”

Shri Mataji: Children know Me too well.  You see these are realized soul like first time we had a boy from….Of course in India I can understand but in England we had a boy called Kevin and he had a very miserable childhood.  And he came with his father.  He was hardly about five-six years of age, you see.  And he came you see like a roman he stood before Me like this and just came and stood, said, “Mother, I bow to you.”  And like that he went on and people couldn’t understand and said, “What are you doing standing like this, sit down, sit down. Bow bow bow. Everybody!”  He started hitting everybody on the head and then there was a….I have a staircase. I have a staircase to go up. He said there is no red carpet or anything.  Let us spread it.  He brought one small carpet and threw it on that and he said, “Mother now you come.”  And the way he was humble and everything you know, the whole thing worked.  You see it was remarkable.  They were surprised.  Same he used to say, “What are you doing ?  Where are you looking?  Come, come, come along, see, see.”  I mean the way he was seeing the whole thing he is a great sahaja yogi we have got in London.  There were many like that.  There were some muslim little boys who are very good.  And so many of them. 

Like My own grandchildren are realized souls that in childhood when they were very small early in the morning they would be like puppies near My feet, you see.  So, husband would say that, “What is this?  In the morning time they are hugging on to your feet and..?”  And so they would say, “We are sucking vibrations.  We are sucking the cool breeze you see.”  He couldn’t understand sucking the cool breeze and all that.  But they are so sensitive. One day My maid put My saree on the ground.  Immediately the younger one came and lifted it up.  She put it there.  Can’t you see whose saree is this?  My Grandma’s, who knows you!  Do you know who She is?  What you’re doing by putting it on the ground?  All Gods will be angry with you.  She picked it up and put it to her eyes.  She said, “Now don’t do it again. I am telling you.”  She was hardly three years. Hardly three years.

Woman: You recognized the child the other day who You said was born realized.  What is the role of a parent of such a child who can also be very naughty and very difficult on occasions?

Shri Mataji: Yes they can be because, you see, you don’t understand them so they play pranks and tricks on you, you see.  So best thing is to get realized, bring them to the ashram here.

Woman: Yes.

Shri Mataji: And then they will start. You see they cannot manifest their realization so then they get naughty with the parents, you see.  They really get naughty with the parents.  They don’t know what to do with them.

Like My own granddaughter eldest one she told me one day very seriously that you are after all the Goddess I know, Mother, Grandmother, but one thing is there.  Can You do some mistakes in life?  I said, “Why?”  She said, “There is one thing I don’t understand.  Why didn’t You give realization to my mother when she was born?  Now she is very difficult for me.”  I said, “Really?” “Yes”, she said, “Now she has become hard.  It’s difficult.  But at childhood…in childhood You should have given realization.  But I said, “You must ask.”  “Not for children. It’s alright for a…older people that they should ask but for children You could have given her realization.  It would have been much better for me.  Now she is very hard.”  So on their side they cannot understand.

Now your infatuation with Indira Gandhi is over or not?  You better go to India.  I tell you.  No no no no.  I will tell you for Indira Gandhi you better go to India.  Take a house there and stay with her. It’s a good idea.  What are you going to gain from Me?  I have nothing to do with them.

Questioner: I just…I’ve asked You a number of question.  And You’ve answered them very very well. But I have got two or three remaining ones.  If I can ask You….

Shri Mataji : But the….

Questioner: Well if I can just read the question out?  It’s not an easy one.

Shri Mataji: Are you My examiner?

Questioner: No, No….

Shri Mataji: Then what?

Question: I am not a journalist. I am, I am just a

Shri Mataji: No no no.  But what am I saying…why are you asking Me questions?  In what relationship?

Question: I…I really would be happy to know the answer.

Shri Mataji: But why?  But what right have you got to know the answers from Me?  First of all let’s see this point.

Man: Sure sure.

Shri Mataji: Alright?

Man: Yes I understand so.

Shri Mataji: See this it that the way you are taking the time.  Then if it is something to do with sahaja yog I don’t mind answering.

Man: Fine.

Shri Mataji: But you ask Me questions like Indira Gandhi.  Like the other day we were taking a TV thing from… with Me.  And one man who has taken the photograph of Jawaharlal Nehru about twenty five years back.  I don’t know how he was carrying lots of photograph with him.  I don’t know what he is.  Suddenly he saw Me and came rushing to Me, stop stop, stop, stop.  And I was busy with the TV person.  I though he must be something to do with the TV.  I thought – see the one who’s calling. So I stopped.  He came he opened his bag.  You see they are all preoccupied with their own things.  Whatever it is.  Why involve Me poor thing?  See, and he opened it.  And he said, “Now You must wait, You must wait.”  I thought he has something to do with this lady.  See I didn’t know he has done nothing.  He said, “Just wait, just wait, I have to tell you very important, very important.  I said, “Why Me?”  He said, “No, no You only because You are an Indian.”  He took out a very old photograph of Jawahar Lal ji.  And he said, “See this is the photograph, one of the photographs I have.”  So I asked this lady, “Is it your program?  TV?”  She said, “I have nothing to do with it.”  So I said, “Why is he asking Me?”  And he took half an hour for that only.  And this lady thought that I know him.  So this is it.  So you see what I am saying, you are here for realization.  If you want to take realization you take it.  But why do you want to ask Me questions which are irrelevant to this program?  Alright?  With relevance….If there is something relevant with it I don’t mind.  But there is no relevance.  Is there anything relevant?

Man: There is one question. Just one.

Shri Mataji: Oh alright, Thanks.  So we reduced out of three to one.  I hope it is relevant.

Question: Fine, fine. You speak out against public display of embrace or kisses between the sexes.  Yet I’d seen you spontaneously embrace females in Your own audience.  Can you explain that as well. (gasping by people followed by laughter).

Shri Mataji : You see.  That I must tell. No No. Embrace is very good. But you must embrace your own sex…is your women…  You see in India if you tell anyone ‘homosexuals’ they don’t understand.  You see even Modi or anyone they are educated but we don’t understand.  You see this is your brains…have gone this far.  For us we have no idea as to what is this between women and men, we don’t understand, you see.  Women…we always sleep with women, live together.  We have no such problem.  You see our brains are not so developed. (Laugher by crowd)

So we really don’t understand.  We are too…too stupid to understand that.  You see and… I was surprised….we, we…not only that but supposing our Raul Bai has come in.  She won’t sleep with…in My bed because I am the Goddess or something but any woman sleeps with any woman and hundreds of them sleep together.  We have no problem.  But we will never take bath in the presence of each other.

You see embracing a child is a very important and loving a child is even more important.  Alright but not an elder man than Me embracing just embracing.  That’s not done.  Not done.

Man : Cuddling? Cuddling on the street?

Shri Mataji: Cuddling on the street is embarrassing you know.  Cuddling on the streets and going to the divorce case later on.

Man: Yeah.  Thank you very much.

Shri Mataji: Alright?

Man: Thank you.

Shri Mataji: So this is all absurd ideas.  You will also get rid of them.  This is some sort of wave that has come that you become homosexual and this and that.  I mean still I do not understand, I am telling…I cannot understand it.  You see, doesn’t go into My brain.  But even Modi said he doesn’t understand.

And I asked [UNCLEAR TEXT] and he was quite shocked. He said, “What?”

Moreover they are shocked when you take baths together.  They just can’t understand how men can take baths together.  They just can’t understand.  I mean you see we are so simple that I’ll tell you that when My husband was First Secretary General there, I mean he used to embrace all of them and all of them do embrace even the Arabs and all the Eastern people embrace each other.  But I told him, “Do you know this?”  After three years.  He said, “God, really! I didn’t know.”  (Shri Mataji laughs) He said, “They used to be suddenly shocked.  I didn’t know why.”

It’s surprising I tell you, really how we are.  Hey, do you brand everybody as homosexual?  You mean every woman is homosexual or what?

Questioner: No no

Shri Mataji: No no no no no. But what do you do I mean when you say that?  I mean I am just saying that if a woman holds anybody’s hand do you condemn both of them as homosexuals or what?  Is it?  I mean I am just wanting to know?

(Multiple people reply in the background)

Shri Mataji: Huh? According to you every women is homosexual?

Woman: No no no no. Not according to me.

Shri Mataji: No No. According to the…..

Woman: According to public people.

Shri Mataji: Yes? Is it?

Woman: Yeah.

Shri Mataji: Every women is?

Woman: I think they do.

Shri Mataji: Really? Every women is according to you?

Crowd: No no no….

Woman: No no no. Not according to us.

Shri Mataji: No no.  But according to public of Australia.

Crowd: No no…[Unclear]

Women: To a lot of extent.  To a great extent.  If I walk on the street and I hold a girls hand because I love her.  Because she is my friend and I love her.  Then people look at us and say, “Why are these women holding hand? They must have some relationship that is bad.”

Shri Mataji: Naturally you are not going to hold your [UNCRLEAR TEXT/dogs] hand.

Man: Depends where you [UNCRLEAR TEXT]

Women: No it doesn’t..no,no.  Because I really like holding my girl friend’s hands.  I really like walking down…

Shri Mataji: I mean its natural.

Woman: Yeah, its natural.

Shri Mataji: And you feel better with a girl than a man. You know.  (laughter by crowd)

Shri Mataji: Isnt it?  A girl would like to hold a girl’s hand and man should like to hold a man’s hand. It’s natural, absolutely.

Man : Not common here…

Shri Mataji: You see and we don’t touch any man in India.

Woman: But in India everybody walks…..the men walk hand in hand.  And the women walk hand in hand. And it’s good.

Shri Mataji: Ah Huh? Yes. But you see there is something…a total understanding in their upbringing.  I think it may be in our good conditioning that you see if a younger person…say for example you are much younger to Me or somebody much younger to Me…is like My brother-in-law or something.  He can touch Me and I can touch him because he is like My brother.  You see he is younger to Me.  But a person who is older than Me I am not supposed to touch.  Neither he will touch, never.  Even as a Goddess he will not.  He will touch My feet.  That’s all.  They need not touch My body.  It’s done like that.  It’s accepted.  We don’t understand these things you know.

First thing I discovered in London, this thing, when we had a visitor, just came to correct the gas.  Now imagine a person like Me so ignorant and my two servants.  The elder one was 75 and another was about 31.  Poor things they were busy with the man who came, the young man.  And they were talking to him just like they would talk to any young man.  That he is English.  Let’s go to London, we will go together and there will enjoy very much.  And the older….the old man was as they tease in India.  They… was teasing him like this…like that.  See we do like this to younger people.  And they are….they were very natural you see.  And this man went and reported to the fellow.  And they did they telephoned to Me, “You better tell Your servants to behave themselves.  They are little funny type.  They can’t…. (Crowd laughs)

So I said, “What? [UNCLEAR TEXT] why will they do it?”  I just couldn’t understand, you see.  So I asked the servents what happened.  Nothing we were just joking with him and enjoying him and all that.  So I did not understand and we had a sahaja yogi there.  You see, that was Gregorie. (laughingly) Swiss fellow you see.

And I told him, “What is he saying I don’t follow.  What is his complaint?  I don’t understand.  So his face went red you see.

He said, “Shut up, you.  Don’t give ideas.  They don’t understand these things.

I said, “What happened?”

Mother I can’t tell You.  I am sorry can’t tell You.

I said, “What happened?  What did these people do I must correct them.”

“They did not do anything.  It was the head of that fellow…was wrong”.  But I said what happened you tell Me.  So he called my neighbor who was an English lady.  And he told her what had happened.  So she came, gave Me one hour lecture on this.  She said, “You know in this country there are homosexuals.”  I said, “What is this?  What did they do?”  I mean I did not know and poor thing I broke her completely.  You know as you are asking Me questions I asked her questions.  So she told Me all this story about it.  And she said told that, “You better tell Your servant that they should not touch any man who comes here.”  So I called both the servants and I tell them, “You should not touch any man who comes to see you.  Because I was half based Myself.  So they said, “Why are they women that we should not touch them?”  Only women are not to be touched in India.  But they are men. “Are they women?” I said, “They are in the dress of men, but they are women. So don’t touch them.” (Laughter by people) They did not know how to understand.  They said, “Are they women that we should not touch them?” They couldn’t understand this thing when I said they should not touch them.  Are they women?  They…Now just to explain, they are men to look at but they are women so don’t touch them.  They said, “How can we believe?”  I said, “Alright don’t believe it.  But I am telling you not to touch them.  That’s all.  So I cannot tell you anymore.” They started wondering, “What’s the matter with the lady?”

Women: Is there no homosexuality in India?

Shri Mataji: No I mean nobody is conscious of it. You see, may be some madcaps might be doing it.  You see we have mad people also, we have lunatic asylums we have everything.  But not to this extent.  I mean I have never heard of these things before.  I did not know…..

Man: Very rare, very rare…

Shri Mataji:  Very rare, I mean, they don’t understand these things you see.  It’s a very different upbringing altogether.  Women will sit together.  Men will sit together.  There’s nothing like that.  We do not understand these things at all.

Man: I can’t understand anything wrong with a man and woman holding hands or…

Shri Mataji: Yeah…

Man: …walking down the street…Is this just perhaps a cultural difference?

Because I am sure there is.

Shri Mataji: You see… because… you see…you are being conditioned like that. You see that’s why.  It is conditioning.  What is wrong?  I mean you hold somebody’s hand.  Do you thing…hands are….Where is hand…..what will go wrong with you.  I mean I just can’t understand such a…I mean by touching somebody what is going to happen?  See he is a man. You are a man.  I mean I think…

Man: No he is asking, if a man and a women hold hands. What’s wrong with that?

Shri Mataji: No. Of course a man and a women is not….because if man is the…You see then there is no morality. What is it?  If you hold any man’s hand…See, Why should you hold?  Only you should hold the hands of younger people where there is no question of sex or anything.  Then anybody can hold anybody’s hand.  See there should be certain limits about things.  You see, we do not hold anybody’s hand in India, woman.  Only with woman or with smaller people.  You see we never hold hands like that but the girl…you see, if there’s a woman walking, we will hold hands always.  We’ll never go separate.  We will always walk with holding hands because it’s easier if are crossing or something you know each other, you can tell, you can communicate.  But you do not only communicate sex you know. This is the trouble.  How can you communicate sex to a woman I still don’t understand very… to be very frank with you. Now that’s how some of our conditioning is…little conditioning.

Man: We’ve destroyed the quality of innocence because we are so scared about what people are going to say.  You know if we touch somebody or something.  We are so scared.

Shri Mataji: That’s it. You see My child. This is the thing.  Nothing wrong. I mean.

Man : We have such….Our culture is so down at the moment.

Shri Mataji:  I mean…haa…that’s the…that’s it.  You have said it.   Really that is it.  Even I mean if sometimes a man touches us we do not feel so startled.  But normally we don’t touch men who are older than us.  And the men who do not touch girls who are younger than them.  But very young girls they will.  You see we’ll be amazed how My husband, you have seen him, I mean, My daughter sleep with him in the same bed.  And I sleep with My son-in-laws if they are there…we all.  We never get sex ideas at all into our heads.  It never goes.  You see it never comes.  I don’t know from where this idea comes.  When you are with your father you don’t get ideas of sex.

Man: I think there are couple of good reasons for holding on to the…even if the… precisely…there are some rough people around.

Shri Mataji: Hmm…Then this is better.

Man : If you’ll go to [UNCLEAR TEXT] two paces to that side in the wrong street you’ll get something like that coming along and you know, whispering you know making a bastard.  If you hold on to it, You are saying…

Shri Mataji: Yes that is there. Then there is no harm at all.  You see that’s why I am saying it’s the protection.  It is the protection.  I mean that is the only idea that comes to to [UNCLEAR TEXT].  But then unnecessarily if you are holding onto My hand it doesn’t look nice.  It is indecent.  But what I am saying is if for women when they are walking they always hold hands because it’s a…they need all the time protection.  They should know….in a group they go mostly.  You see it’s a very different attitude, I mean.  I don’t know.  We’ll take at least a hundred years to develop somewhere near but I don’t know.  It’s something that is over developed.  I think that’s what is true.  Is innocence is lost.  That’s why in innocence you see you don’t feel all these things.  I mean never comes to our head.  Never.  You see all time people are flirting.  This man is flirting with that women.  All the time it’s madness I tell you.  Actually, don’t you go mad with this?  On the street you are flirting.  You go out you are flirting.  You are seeing something you are flirting.  In group you are…Aree Baba, you will go mad I tell you, really.  Seeing you I feel funny.

It’s exhausting, I tell you.  And why do you flirt?  What is the joy?  Because there is no joy in flirting at all.  What is it? Just think about it. What is the joy? When you will be seeing somebody like this and seeing another one like a poster hanging in the air…walls you see.  You must see very poster and go on like that.  Just can’t understand this madness.

She felt I am really exhausted.  She brought something.  No but it is true.  Just… It’s not logical.  Isn’t it?

Man: But there is joy. What is that called? Is it a burpiness?  Is it weakness

Shri Mataji:  I think it is…

Man: Because I do enjoy looking at all of them, yeah.  This is the bonus, its lack of control…

Shri Mataji: I…You see what I found that when My western sahaja yogis, some of them they say it’s a bhoot.  I said, “How do you know?” They said, “We experimented with it.”  I said, “How?”  One of them said, “You see…”  One of them said that I was just standing and suddenly I felt I must look back.  And then I looked back and there was a woman standing.”  So I said, “Really?”  Then I said that, “It was that she had a bhoot in her and I had a bhoot and they had a nice talk to each other. So they enjoyed each other and like a fool we turned around both of us, looked at each other blank.  And while they were enjoying.  That’s what they were saying.  That we have experimented why this happens, you see.  And the only way to get out of it is to put your eyes on the Mother Earth.  Just Mother Earth.  She takes away all these bhoots into Her.  It’s really horrible and that’s why you get troubles.  So many troubles you get.  Of your attention see if…..imagine…..I mean it is unimaginable also.  About say hundred years back if somebody had told Me that you have to all the time see like this…I mean its mad thing isn’t it?  I mean Your attention wobbling all the time.  Just think of it, so logical.  But the basics are missing.  Like I was telling him that in India from childhood the parents will say, “Where is your attention?  Chitta kutte?  Where is your attention?”  See that is never said here, “Where is our attention?”  So you have to keep your mind on the attention.  Where is it going?  See so chitta nirodha is the basis of Indian life.  And because you are brought up like that even if we do wrong we know it is wrong.  It’s bad.  You see that attention is to be controlled is not here.  Because of your ego orientation.  What’s wrong?  Then wherever attention goes it gathers all the rubbishness.  Like English came to all over the places.  They tried loot them, they carried all the stuff with them.  Now they are worried about their migration…immigration.  Why did you go?  Who asked you to go to other countries?  It is like that.  When you put your attention to something you get back all the rest.  So the attention should be first of all stabilized.  Now attention has to be respected.  See our attention to be very very respected.  Why should we put our (attention) to anyone…. I mean, it’s not dignified.  It looks so funny you know.  Everybody looking at you like this, you know.  Very embarrassing …Feel very self conscious I mean.  We don’t understand what’s wrong with you the way people are looking at you like that. (Shri Mataji laughs)

It seems…it is I tell you…It is funny.  For people like us who are not used to this kind of thing.  All Indian ladies said, “They…what are they doing?”  I said, “They are flirting?”  So they said, “What is that?”  “That’s the system.” I said. What system is that?  Said they are trying to enjoy, you see.  But she said, “How can you enjoy?  Whatever is your own you should enjoy.  You enjoy your wife.  What’s the use of enjoying such people.  You never enjoy.”  I said, “It is true.   [In Hindi/ Whatever is yours thing]… Whatever is your thing you should enjoy, your thing.  How can you enjoy somebody else’s thing?  I said, “They enjoy with their mental…mentally.  And that’s how our mind has become nothing but sex point.  Just see where are we reduced to.  Just think of it. 

You are saints.  That’s why Christ has pointed out.  And imagine Christian nations are doing most of all.  We never knew of adulterous eyes.  He is the one who said that thou shall not have adulterous eyes.  So the Christians said, “Alright we will have them.”  They fixed them up properly.  Whatever is said they do just the opposite.  They [UNCLEAR TEXT/ordered] for it.  To get adulterous eyes, isn’t it?  Same…just like in India…It is said that everybody has got the spirit.  Now how can you have caste system in India?  But they made caste.  You see what they actually said is the aptitude of a person.  If you are a person who is seeker is a Brahmin.  If you are a warrior or you are seeking power then you are kshatriya.  Like that they made aptitude…as a…your aptitude…you see born with aptitude.  Here they made it according to your birth.  How can that be?  And they said it is written in the Gita.  They have changed it.  They have changed the Gita completely.  Because the one who has written the Gita was himself, was an illegitimate child of a fisher woman.  How can he say?  The proof is that this. How can you say you are born a Brahmin?  They have changed it?  They said you are born.  And if these are the Brahmins God save us.  These are the devils.  Calling themselves Brahmin.  Most of the Brahmins in India are devils.  Absolutely devils.  Most of them.  Don’t say this to Indira Gandhi otherwise she is also a Brahmin you know.  I mean all of……

Man: [UNCLEAR TEXT/ English] people love her.

Shri Mataji: No no no no I am not saying they love her but I am saying that…I don’t say all the Brahmins but so many Brahmins are…

Man: Sure…yeah.

Shri Mataji: I do not want to have anything to do with the politics alright.  So keep me out.

Man: I understand.

Another man: Can we learn to clear our own chakras?

Shri Mataji: Huh?

Another Man: Can we learn to clear our own chakras?

Shri Mataji: Of course.  That’s the power you have.  That is self-realization.  You start realizing what is in you.  You do…all of them are clearing out.  That’s a very good question.  And you do.  You can.  That is what you are empowered to cure, your own chakras and chakras of others.

One Woman: How?

Second woman: Yeah. How?

Shri Mataji: Alright I will tell you…Modi tell how it is done.  Sit sit …Modi will tell you because I have never cleared my chakras, you know.  Let us hear from him how he has done.  You see some of these problems I have never had you see.  So even to tell this is not easy.

(Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi)

Gradually you can learn. Slowly slowly you can pick up.

Mr. Modi: We covered some subject on this in the first lecture when I spoke to them first.

Shri Mataji: Is it so?

Mr. Modi: yes some of it was covered.

Shri Mataji:  But…they were not…All of them were not…

You were not there, all of you.

Mr. Modi: Now how to clear the chakras…are the very important questions. And …..

Shri Mataji: (in Marathi)

Mr. Modi: I expressed it. I’ll just narrate what I said earlier to those who were not present.  So that we can catch up to that very well.  When you meditate it is the inwardness of your attention.  When you go into meditation I mean to say this is from the sahaja yoga point of view I have no controversy as far as I am concerned.  So I imagine that you also have no controversy.  Now when you meditate or we meditate in sahaja yoga our attention is inwards.  Towards ourselves in kundalaini.

Shri Mataji: It is automatically there.

Mr. Modi: It is automatically thing.  Nothing has to be done.  It automatically happens everywhere.

Shri Mataji: Because the happening is there inside.  Because the kundalini is working it out.  That’s why your attention is attracted.  After realization you can go inside.  You can see somewhere heaviness somewhere…you can even now feel it.

Mr. Modi: Second point I suggested earlier was to feel the kundalini.  I said you put down your both the hands towards the photograph because Mataji was not there that time.  Now Mataji is also here.  All of you can put down your hands like that. You will feel that the cool breeze is coming.  Now when the cool breeze is coming to you…even if your eyes are open by looking at your hands you will come to know that the cool breeze is coming in my hands, ok.  But there are how many centers? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven and this one eight.  As many centre are there.  Now you identify on which chakras are you getting cool vibrations.

Shri Mataji: Put your hand straight, like this.

Mr. Modi: If you put your hands you will come know on which hands….

(Shri Mataji speaks in marathi)

Mr. Modi: You have to put both the hands.  You have to see whether on left hand you are getting vibrations or on the right hand you are getting vibrations.

Shri Mataji: Or both the hands?

Mr. Modi: Or both the hands are getting cool vibrations?

Shri Mataji: Or which is more which is less?  You see for yourself.

Mr. Modi: Alright

Mr. Modi: In which hand you are getting more vibrations?  In which…I mean…hand you are getting less vibrations?

Woman: Does vibrations mean the same as..?

Shri Mataji: Cool breeze. Yes of course.

Mr. Modi: Cool breeze. I mean to say…

Shri Mataji: Not tingling or anything. No..

Mr. Modi: Now if somebody is getting any hot sensations then that means….

Shri Mataji: After sometime it will improve…

Mr. Modi: It will improve but that I will explain to you subsequently.  Because that is another side to be explained little later on.  So once you start feeling…now supposing on this chakra, that is on this finger if some of you are not getting vibrations as much as you are getting over here then there is something wrong with this particular chakra.

(Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi)

Mr. Modi: Ok. In order that you should have a balance in both the hands, what we do is a little exercise. It’s a just….

(Shri Mataji speaks to Mr. Modi in Marathi)

Mr. Modi: Now supposing in one of the hands you are not getting cool vibrations I mean as much as in the another hand, the hand in which you are not getting enough vibrations should be drawn out of the window, towards the window.

(Shri Mataji speaks to Mr. Modi in Marathi)

Shri Mataji: He is confused.

Mr. Modi: No, no, I am not.

Shri Mataji: No, no you understand it, right?  In Marathi it is different and in English it is different. So

Mr. Modi: You see in one hand, supposing in the left hand you are not getting vibrations

Shri Mataji: So you put towards the photograph.

Mr. Modi: That hand should be

Shri Mataji: You have to get more vibration.

Mr. Modi: Like that.  Supposing the left hand you are getting….you are not getting enough vibrations, so you put left hand towards your Mother.  Ok?  If you are not getting the right hand enough vibrations…

Shri Mataji: Just now I am sitting so you put towards Me.

Mr. Modi: ..then you put the right hand. Which one….whichever hand you are not getting enough vibrations out of the two.  The one which is carrying less vibrations you should put it towards the Mother.

Shri Mataji: Alright…This is correct.

Mr. Modi: Then…

Shri Mataji: Another one should be..

Mr. Modi: The another hand, you just either put it…since you are in the room you can either put it like that, up.

Shri Mataji: Straight…another one.  Another one.  At that like this not …

Mr. Modi: So that it cannot be towards Mother.  No no no.  Not like that.  It should be like that.  That’s it.  So this way..

Shri Mataji: The one which is getting less should be towards the photograph.  And the one which is getting more should be at the back.

(Women talking in the background)

Woman 1:[UNCLEAR TEXT] vibrations coming in.

Woman 2:[UNCLEAR TEXT] cool vibrations coming in.

Woman 3: ….there’s wind coming in..

Mr. Modi: This is where …This is exactly where you have got to develop your sensitivity.

Shri Mataji: Ah hmmm.

Woman: Yeah, yeah.

Mr. Modi: This is where you have to develop your…..No not that way, this way.

Man: You feel it…you feel the wind massaging your [UNCLEAR TEXT].  Then you can differentiate between external wind…

Mr. Modi: and what is coming from the vibrations….both you can differentiate.

Shri Mataji: Afterwards even if you are in the wind you will know, what is which you see. You just develop a little bit of sensitivity.

Mr. Modi: So this exercise for a while

Shri Mataji: Now there is no wind…much coming actually.  Just close the door, let’s see.  It’s better.  So we used to put off all the air conditioners you see in the hall for the same reason.  Just put ……close it I think. 

Woman: Very difficult Mother with people sitting [UNCLEAR TEXT]

Shri Mataji: Just, just close it.

Mr. Modi: [UNCLEAR TEXT] You come in.

Shri Mataji: It’s alright you can wait outside for a while.  Doesn’t matter.

Mr.Modi: Some people who are, Mataji,..coming…

Shri Mataji: No [UNCLEAR TEXT] Come from this side. Come along from this side.  They are all sahaja yogis.  Aren’t they?  Yes, they can come from this side.  Alright, they are all sahaja yogis.  They have been with us.  Poor sahaja yogis are thrown out and you are inside.  They are very sensible. They understand. Yeah.

Mr. Modi: Now with this…

Shri Mataji: Now…now, are you feeling it?

Mr. Modi: You again put both the hands towards Mother.

Shri Mataji: Now see

Mr. Modi: Whether you are getting equal vibrations in both the hands.  If you get equal vibrations then that is an ideal situation.  Now you can see in which particular finger there is a either heaviness, tingling sensation or burning sensation or itching…

Shri Mataji: Or numbness.

Mr. Modi: Or numbness.

Shri Mataji: You have to develop the sensitivity.  You see, just now because you are realized most of the time you will be feeling vibrations also.  But then gradually the kundalini goes then and points it out you see.  Then you start feeling…Now see.  Where do you feel the heaviness?  Yes that’s it.  If you are feeling there on these fingers that means the left side is weak.

Mr. Modi: Now supposing…now I will have to give you an…

Shri Mataji: It will clear out.

Mr. Modi: ….some examples at random you see.  I will give you some examples at random.

Shri Mataji: If the whole of the hand is catching it’s better to put another hand up like that.  It clears out much more…faster.  You put right up there.  Yes.  The left will clear out.  Just like this.  You see it’s like a chimney going out.  Now it’s better?

Women: Yeah.

Shri Mataji: Put your hand like this.  Like this…Like this…You see so the outlet is there. If both hands are towards Me then there’s no outlet.  So you put one hand towards Me and this is the outlet. See some people…now when one hand clears out much faster.

Man: The hand that catches we put towards You?

Shri Mataji: Yeah, the hand that catches and has less vibrations all that. Catches more put it towards Me.

Man : I always get numbness and tingling on the little finger.

Shri Mataji: And then….Have you been to some…He’s been to some?

Man: Yes…This is Aneek’s friend.

Shri Mataji: Huh?

Man: This is Aneek’s friend.  Aneek from Paris.

Shri Mataji: Ahhh….I know, I know.  It’s alright.  That’s an indication….Watch it [UNCLEAR TEXT]…Now once it is cleared out now you see your…

Man : Cool breeze..

Shri Mataji: Now there…

Man: Its gone.

Shri Mataji: Its gone…Now this one is?  Where is it?

Man : That one?

Shri Mataji: Its alright.

Man: yes…

Shri Mataji: Now see…the…only in sahastrara, this is the point where two are. Its very important too…that the right side goes to the left and left goes to the right.  You see, mostly right hand catching means your ego is catching and the left side catching

Mr. Modi: May I explain?

Shri Mataji: Yes tell everything (To Mr. Modi). (To audience) is the superego catching.  Alright?  So he will explain to Me? [UNCLEAR TEXT] Now I think you sit more relaxed.  I’ll go inside.  And he will tell you everything into details what is to be done.  Alright?  For a while.  Why don’t you come up from there… [UNCLEAR TEXT] I will look after the sahaja yogis.  Now feel relaxed.  You sit down. Relax.  Move out a little.  He will explain to you and you can discuss.

Mr. Modi: Put bandans over there and the heaviness can be removed.  How the bandhans are to be put how the things can be removed.  The heaviness can be removed?  How the burning sensation can be removed?  This you can learn practically after about another two minutes of my explanations to you.  Like this all the seven chakras could be identified.  And all the seven chakras can be cleared.  Now I have to tell you only one thing which is about ego and super ego.  How they cross?  That is the only thing I will tell you.  And then I would request the sahaja yogis who are staying over here to again stand by so that you can mix with the group.  One sahaja yogi can answer two or three people over here.

Man: Mother would like to have the sahaja yogis.

Mr. Modi: All of them there?

Man: I think..

Another man: You can try[UNCLEAR TEXT/Phil]?

Mr. Modi: I think one or two of them.

Man: [UNCLEAR TEXT/Phil] just taped me on the shoulder and said sahaja..Mother would like sahaj…sahaja yogi..

Mr. Modi: OK