Public Program, The Ocean of Love

Hampstead Friends Meeting House, Hampstead (England)

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1981-06-25, The Ocean of Love (PP)

I told you about the three powers we have within ourselves: one is the power of desire that is on the left-hand side; and the another power of action which is on the right-hand side; and the central power which is the power of our [divinity OR evolution]. Also I told you about the centers that we have. The lowest center is below the Kundalini which is responsible for our innocence. When this center gets disturbed then our innocence is also disturbed. This is a very, very important center for Sahaja Yoga. It plays a very vital role in your evolution. Whatever you have done before or you have done now to spoil the awakening of the Kundalini or you can say to spoil the Sushumna, the central part, is all recorded in that Kundalini Itself. But the recording takes place because this center which is at the end, which is innocence, receives all the information from this conditioning line, the left side. It receives all the information and it records, just like a tape recorder. So the Kundalini is aware of the mistakes that are committed by you personally, by the society, by the conditioning of the, your seeking, by all sorts of things that you have done so far, by which you have tried to hamper the path of your Realization. So this is the path, the central path which is very important for your [ascent]. But that should not give you a guilt. One thing I must tell you, when I speak you should not take Me that seriously. Because that’s the worst thing that happens to you, that you start developing a guilt, and then the Realization becomes very difficult. So please do not develop any guilt when I say something, or just start pondering, “Oh, I have done this mistake and that mistake.” Because I’m talking of first and last time as I said it and today is the first time I would say again to begin with that I’m talking of Ocean of Love. If you were so perfect there was no need to have Sahaja Yoga. There was no need to do anything. Should have been the simplest job, you see. Anybody could have done it. Because there are complications and problems that somebody has to work it out. So there is nothing to feel guilty about it. First thing I have to request today is not to feel guilty about anything.

So the second center is the second center, is of your activity, as I told you. So through your activity also you create problems on the central line. Now how do you create that? It’s like this. You can see the left and the right and the central. Central part is the Sushumna. Now these two start working. When they work very hard or they pull each other on the sides, then sometimes this may be dislocation completely by which you lose your complete connection with the whole. Or could be that it may narrow down, the path may narrow down, and sometimes it can be very much injured or sick. These centers could be very sick.

Before we discuss about the deities on these centers I would like to say that all these powers, these three powers get enlightened after your Realization. Before your Realization there is no enlightenment. For example, the left-hand side power is the power of desire. First of all, your priorities start changing. Say, a person wants to buy a very comfortable car, a car like Rolls Royce, for example. He dreams, “I must have a Rolls Royce. I must have a nice Rolls Royce to go out.” But after Realization he doesn’t like much these things. The reason is he starts feeling the comfort of Rolls Royce within himself. He forgets about all these things. His attention does not go to these things which look apparently very comfortable. They are not. If you see through the scrutinizing, say for example take the question of Rolls Royce. It’s a headache to have such a so-called comfortable car. Because somebody [might, will] steal, and you have to have insurance. Insurance people might have loophole somewhere. You may lose the money. If something happens to the car you are so much worried. While you are driving you are so much worried somebody bumps into your car if you go in such a nice car. I mean, it’s a headache to possess a Rolls Royce. It’s better that somebody has it and you, you enjoy it. But if you own it and if you possess it, then you go to this registration office to register it there and this and that, and it’s a big headache. And the worst of all is that people are jealous of you. They don’t like you. They don’t like you because you have got a, I mean, what is the advantage of having a Rolls Royce car? But then that it is so many disadvantages. Plus, I mean, on the one side only you can say, I don’t know which one, what should I say, what is the advantage? Maybe that I mean it’s a good car, reliable car and all that could be there, a quality-wise all that there. But for that how much you have to sacrifice and how much you have to work so to possess something.

The idea of possession becomes different. Then you want to possess these cool vibrations, you see. You want to possess that, because you get really fed up of other possessions and you start seeing that this is what gives you the greatest comfort and [joy]. You start just changing your desires of all the things. The second desire is about, say, some people want to have a, say, a good family life and for that just try, even there are Romeos and Juliets and this and that, all kinds of things crying and weeping there. All thing goes on and the husband doesn’t carry on with the wife and the wife doesn’t carry on with the husband and then they feel very hurt and all those things happen, that they fail. That you feel that you can get happiness from your wife is absolutely wrong, I tell you. You can never get happiness from anybody else but from your Spirit. The joy comes from your Spirit, not from anybody else. Now supposing a Sahaja Yogi has married a person who is not a Sahaja Yogi. It’s a wonderful [circumstance]. You can study a person so close who is not a Sahaja Yogi, how he is prankish, how he goes into tantrums and how he’ll behave. You get a regular elegy, means sort of a role being played by someone. You start seeing the whole drama much better. Supposing he is a Sahaja Yogi, may be little insecure but they can’t because there won’t be any problem or a quarrel but you see then, you see the person how he behaves and how he is. Then you understand. You understand that why he‘ll behave like this and what we have to do, what are the, what are the problems and how to make the arrangements by which these people stop going into these holes and getting stuck-up into them.

You see, you start studying it. When you start studying like that, not getting angry and impatient with the person who is your partner, then you will start enjoying. But if you start getting impatient, in the beginning when the Sahaja Yogis do feel impatient with their partners because they are not Sahaja Yogis. They think that people are lost now, what will they do, then when are they going to get their Realization and all that. Instead of that, if you really develop properly, if you go properly you start seeing it in a different angle. “Oh, that’s the way they are.” You see, when you start generalizing all [these things], then you do not say, “This is my wife. She should have been like this. This is my wife.” You know, some people think because somebody is your wife, she should be a perfect personality. And because she’s your wife and what are you? Are you perfect? I mean, why do you expect your wife to be that perfect? If she has kept one thing you here or there or he, I mean, it can be any way, I mean he or she, does not matter. Whosoever has done so-called mistake you say actually it comes because you think you are absolutely perfect, on the top of the world, you see. And that’s why you try to find faults with another person. But you see when you are Sahaja Yogi you realize that you have to grow; you have to mature. And how can you find faults with people like that? Only thing you can do is to study the whole thing because the whole thing becomes a drama. OK, you become. You start seeing the whole thing as a drama and it doesn’t behave the way you want. He used to behave as if that these circumstances sometimes are engulfing, and you can become fanatical. I see here people, you see because the husband came late. So wife hits the husband and kills him or something like that. But see how funny it is. She, she was angry with him. He came late or whatever he did was because he did not love her. She felt that it was due that he should love. And to love should you kill the husband? Then who is going to love you? See this kind of thing, you see, you start thinking very, I should say, paradoxical behavior of people. They’re so paradoxical, and the whole thing becomes so apparent and so vivid when you start seeing it through your Spirit because you are not within it. You are yourself. You are not now the husband or wife or anything, but you see yourself as a husband and another person as a wife, or you see yourself as a wife and another person as a husband. And it’s a very different thing and then the whole thing becomes such a drama and such a beautiful poetry that you start seeing, you [see/can] feel that, oh, the old Shakespeare is coming before you or whatsoever. Most dramatic thing it’s happening to you.

So this is another thing, that our desire has changed, that you see, “I want a peaceful life.” You see, but the peace is within; peace is not outside. If you are not peaceful within [you / the] inside, you cannot be peaceful outside. Anybody who will see you will know that you are not at all peaceful within. You have to find your own peace, your own bliss and if you want, you want to have that it is you who has to receive. This is the thing, and it is you who have to enjoy it. So no use blaming anybody else by saying that, “Oh, I’m so unhappy and this was, she was not making much, much noise,” or, “I get very disturbed.” Then you don’t feel this. Actually, after Realization you’ll be surprised all this over-sensitivity used to harm you and to, noises and all that, that disappear. Because you enter into your silence within. Let the people shout, scream, you are in your silence [moment], start singing and sometimes you also think that they are shouting at somebody who just can’t hear them.

The whole priorities of your desires start changing because you start enjoying something. For example, to a child who has never eaten ice-cream and has just taken, say, only milk all his life, if you give him ice-cream, then he shifts his attention to ice-cream much more than to milk. In the same way, once you taste or you get the nectar of your spiritual bliss pouring into you, these ideas that are built up about your desires all start collapsing and what you find a new sort of a personality comes in you and you start desiring something else. For example, a, an egg may be desiring something which a bird does not. Bird has different desires and an egg has different desires. In the same way it happens to us when we change our state, when we are in a different situation as far as our Spirit is concerned. Then all our desires take a different turn and we become differently made. Like our many habits that we have because of our conditionings and things and people have so many habits that sometimes I’m really surprised how people boast of their habits. Like a lady came to Me, she boasted with, by telling Me, “Oh, You know I can’t take milk with any cream on it. If I see cream, I’ll vomit.” I said, “This is too much for Me and now. How far I will go? Mad.” Then she came out with something else, “You know I’m so particular about [sleep] and in my bed if there’s even one light I can’t sleep.” Then how does she exist [even]? Mad woman. Like that she just can’t bear this; she just can’t bear that. She’s so very [queer and so funny. I said, “How people must be living with her?” Must be another problem, the way she lives on. And she really bored Me stiff and I didn’t know what to tell her. But then I just said, “What about your husband? He is so normal. What’s the matter with you?” So said, “He is different. I’m different.” I said “You better become like him because is too much. I don’t know how he bears you up, but it’s too much.” I think that the thing was her husband was a realized soul and she was not. And he just saw her, saw her like that she was. He must be laughing at her the way she was fussy about the wanting. “I can’t bear this. I won’t have this. I won’t have this. I’m such and such. I’m such and such.”

All these ideas about yourselves also come to you from your conditionings. For example, an Englishman thinks he’s an Englishman, you see – something upper lip. Then, then if you take an American he thinks he’s very rich and he may be very fast and he boasts of his fastness, you see. Sometimes they boast so much that it’s amazing the way they go about their speediness, you see, the way they are speedy. Then a German will boast of his over-meticulous efficiency or something like that. An Indian will boast of his ritualism and all nonsense that they do around. All sorts of things like that you find people being proud of, you see, to belong to a certain nation. It’s all right. It’s very good. You should be proud of your nation, but of good things and not of bad things. Now all such a conditioning that, “I am an Englishman. I am an Indian. I am this and that,” all fail, because these are demarcations created by human beings. I mean, God just created a beautiful [man/matter]. He had to put some rivers after all, you see. He had to put some mountains somewhere. He had to do all these things. He never asked you to get yourself divided. “I’m this. I’m that. I’m that.” We ourselves have done all this nonsense. I mean, think from God’s point of view. He must have wondering, “What’s the matter with these people?” We have to have immigrations, we have to have things to go to some country, we have to get a pass, we have to have a visa, we have to have this. Why? Because we are ourselves like that. We are ourselves, are so greedy, so selfish, everything is together. And that’s how all human beings are against God if you see, that He must be wondering, “What’s the matter with these people? I’ve given them such a beautiful world to enjoy themselves. Why don’t they enjoy?” Instead of that, every time they work on the energy of hatred, how to create hatred and all these different things [are/on] human conditionings are based.

We can say about art and everything, also about conditionings are based up according to what we have been seeing. If somebody has been seeing the white color more or a grey color more they will always like it. If they have, say, if they have seen red all the time they’ll like red. It’s the only question of conditioning. It’s not question of your innate some sort of a spiritual feeling. Do not confuse Spirit with these material aspirations you have, or the material ideas you have; it’s wrong. Spirit is beyond; it’s that. It has nothing to do with what race, creed you are born into. It is not bothered about what things you think beautiful, what things you don’t. Because it is absolute. There is not [nothing relative]. It’s absolute. When you seek through your vibrations, you will be amazed that certain things, whether they are Indian, English or anything, you will not like [to see/say]. Certain things – they may be anything – you are going to enjoy. This absolute is a coefficient worked out by God’s mathematics, not by any human mathematics. And if that works out, then only you are going to like it because you like these vibrations. Ultimately you like the vibrations. The things that do not give you good vibrations, you are not going to have.

I’ll give you an example. Supposing there’s a chair. It is being sat on by some negative personality. Any Sahaja Yogi will come there. If he just touched the chair, get up and walk out, may sit on the other one, because he’ll feel, immediately he’ll feel the vibrations, and he is not going to sit there. Just now [unclear name] she told Me about her daughter that, “A one magician came, and my daughter who is a realized soul, she said that, ‘He is a very funny man and I don’t like him.’ She started screaming.” Even a child can feel. It’s absolute. Everything becomes absolute, not because somebody has a blond hair or somebody has blue eyes or red lips or anything, but it is the whole, the whole of it. It is the coefficient of that personality that gives good vibrations which people are going to enjoy and are going to feel, and that is what that is going to appeal it, to appeal to them.

So the whole idea of our color skins, of our art, our esthetics, fails. Only God’s esthetics are working out in us. We don’t like anything that is not divine, that’s not emitting vibrations. Even food, everybody will give vibrations to food, everything that they desire. For example, now I have people who are bad-livered, for example. Say in London it’s a common disease of bad liver. It’s absolutely liverish, surprisingly, and the worst is Europe. And Europe is the liver of the universe and where the liver is so bad. And the first questions they asked Me, “Mother, what is to be done about awareness and about liver?” I said, “Why? Why are you concerned?” “Because Europe, Europe is the liver of the universe and we are Europeans and we drink all through and what are we to do now?” I said, “Now you have a sick liver for the whole universe. You have a sick liver. So be careful about it. You have to work it out.” And then they wrote it down what is to be done, these things. They got it. They got through it. They said it is important because they felt not that they should keep their livers all right but they should get the liver of all the Europeans all right, because if the Europeans have bad livers God Himself is going to have a bad liver problem.

See the whole idea changes because you start translating your ideas in relation to the whole. And when you start thinking of the whole that, “Oh, God, by me this is going to be caused and by this everybody is going to suffer,” then naturally, not mentally so much as through vibrations, you start doing it. You start improving. I’ve seen people that when I told them that, “You should not eat this,” then immediately they took it. I tell you, no doctor would have had such obedience as I have. But I don’t even tell that religiously, and I don’t tell them that frantically or in any way, but they just start doing it because they don’t want to lose their vibrations. If you have a bad liver you get very hot vibrations. Are you getting now? Vibrations. So this is what happens. This is the liver that gives you heat, and this liver must be cured because if liver is bad you can get cirrhosis, you can get this, you can get that; lots of problems can come in and you will be in trouble. And you start understanding your own value, the value of your health, more than material things. Doesn’t matter if you have one dress less or one house less; doesn’t matter. First of all, this body should be all right. And that is how the desire that you have a healthy body [works] in a proper way that you should have a proper body that should be the temple of God. [You should get that.]

Same thing about your thoughts. You start cleaning them, you start seeing them and you start understanding why these thoughts are coming to me. From where are they coming? These thoughts are not good; they do not give you any nourishment. They are very exasperating and they tire you out. So you start working on that, you start making your mind, bringing down your mind and making your mind still and going into thoughtless awareness so that you have a tranquil feeling, which is so good, which is so nice. Everybody wants to have that [thoughtless/peace]. I mean, if you can achieve it through your spiritual growth, why not? Then the best part of it that you start seeing your ego and superego; that’s the best part. When you start seeing your ego like a big balloon, you see, getting out like that, oh God! And then you’ll say, “Mother, this is too much. I’ve never thought I have such a bad ego.” “It’s all right. Doesn’t matter. Calm down.” So they work on their ego and they start seeing it. And they say, “Oh Mother, this was my ego.” Once you start seeing it, it goes down. You cannot enjoy life if you have ego. Ego is the thing that [fills/kills] you completely; it will make you a spoilsport. It’s a spoil-sporting stuff, you see. It always gives you joy if it is pampered, and the pampering of it comes by spoiling the sport, the sport of the Divine. Such a person is an aggressor out and out and is a problem to everyone, and people do not know what to do with him. Everybody will know that he is too much aggressive but they’ll ignore. But the aggressor, he is the same as the person who takes aggression, I feel. The one who takes aggression hurts himself. Why should you hurt yourself? God has made this body so beautiful, with such care, with such love. He’s raised it from amoeba to this stage and have you decided to destroy it? This beautiful body, why do you want to destroy it? Why do you want to hurt it? So the superego also starts getting reduced. You start saying, “No, I don’t want to do it. I don’t want to play into the hands of negativity by which I become a useless temple.”

Superego people sometimes, you see, have an idea, “Oh, that if we are very frightened of everyone, we are very good,” because Christ has said, “Bless the downtrodden”. That’s something different, very different to be seen in a very different light which I’ll explain to you later on. But the way people have interpreted is that if you become very mild and non-aggressive then you are a very nice person. I mean, I don’t say that you should be aggressive; I mean, again the other side should be clean. I talked of ego first so that you don’t become aggressive, but the thing is to be even non-aggressive is all right but we can say that to take aggression upon you is also wrong, very wrong. One should never take any aggression. I would say Hitler would never have been successful if at that time from the very beginning you would have resisted. But they allowed, they allowed them to take advantage gradually; gradually it grew up. Anywhere there is an operation like that coming out, everybody must stand against it. This is a very dangerous; it’s poison. Few people take aggression, then more people take aggression, you see, and those who go on backing up, “Oh, it’s all right. It’s all right”. This is another [world/one]. It grows and grows and grows, and this poison then comes up like such a controlling force that the whole world could not control this Germany to save these people who were killed, so helplessly. But they first showed their helplessness in the very beginning, at the very [point, moment] when somebody tells that you should stand up and say, “No, it’s not right.” So both the things are responsible for this kind of a derail.

I would blame Jews the same way as I would blame Hitler and Germans because why should the Jews suffer so much to begin with? Now when they are free, they have got a land, they are behaving in a different manner. That time if they all would have stood up and said, “Nothing doing. We are not going to stand all this nonsense,” they could have taken help from other countries and could have saved those people. That’s what it is. You see, “We are sufferers.” Go ahead with suffering then. “We all suffer.” Why do you suffer? Christ has suffered for you, already suffered for you. You don’t have to suffer at all. You are not here to suffer. You are all here to enjoy, to be happy, to be drenched in His love; not to suffer. Why do you want to suffer? I mean, this is crucifixion for nothing at all. You are not needed for any more for crucifixions. But these things can create a big problem, I must tell you. This kind of witnessing of [cruel] people, negative people, these aggressive people, this silent witnessing is very wrong. One should not allow this kind of a filth to come out. Hatred that is developing anywhere in any country, any place, is wrong. Like in our country, India, we think Indians are not like that. They are also quite horrible. In our country also we have a untouchables and touchables. But Mahatma Gandhi came and he just flouted them. He said, “What do you mean by touchables and untouchables?” And he saw to it that it was removed. He himself was not from the same community as untouchables but there was a fellow from untouchables also. He was a very great doctor, American, who fought it. He said, “Nothing doing. We don’t believe in nonsense.” In the same way we have to know whether we belong to the oppressed or to the oppressor group, so-called. We should stand by people who are oppressed and we should really flout all such ideas because it’s very dangerous.

So it happens that you stand up against all kind of injuries, unfair play. You get the courage [unclear]. Like Christ. What has He got to do with Maria Magdalena? She was a prostitute. Prostitutes have nothing to do with the saints as such. But when He saw that she was stoned by these people, out of proportion she was punished for what? He was the One who maintained this truth before you. That courage comes to you, through your spiritual growth, and you stand by the right. You stand by the people who are oppressed. You just don’t take anything in, like those ideas of bearing up and all that nonsense is gone. As it is, Christ has said that if somebody slaps you on one face you turn the other one. It was at the time of Romans. One had to say it. For egoistical people it is better practice, all those ego-oriented people. Most of the Christian nations, you can say, are that. For them is a good practice that if somebody slaps on one face, you turn the other one. But the people who are suppressed are, those say, we can say people who are living in the most [MISSING PART] They are great because they were realized souls, that greatness [you / should] get spontaneously because it is within you, to grow to that. You suddenly grow when the seed of your Spirit grows inward. And you are amazed at your great ideas and you will transcend all these [things], transcending attention and awareness. So this is what will happen to you.

Because you don’t desire nonsense. That’s what I said and we desire [ascent] and we get it. You just desire to have whatever you want. Just ask for it; you’ll have it. But first we have to enlist ourselves into the kingdom of God. You have to become the kingdom. If I’m not the citizen of England I cannot get the benefit of English laws. If you are not the citizen of God’s kingdom you do not get the benefit. He has got His own telecommunication; He has got everything you won’t believe. And the way He works it out, it’s so tremendous. It is so magnificent. It’s so miraculous that then you start saying that, “All that we have known so far, it’s falsehood and it’s different.” This is the truth which we should achieve. We should establish, mature ourselves and enjoy it. It’s just for your enjoyment Sahaja Yoga has come on this earth and for nothing else.

Today I’ve talked to you on one side. Tomorrow and next time when I come I’ll tell you on the other side.

I hope in this center Sahaja Yoga will work out and you should go into the [depth of this] living organization. This is a living organization which does not have any membership, no payments, nothing. It’s a living thing, and the people will be attracted because of the love that they feel for each other and because of the love they feel for themselves. That’s all. Vibrations, these pure vibrations of Divine love, once you get them you don’t want to part with them. You just don’t want to part with them. They are so beautiful. May God bless you.

Now have you any questions today? Are you better now, Brian?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.

Shri Mataji: I’m working. Let’s have some questions; will be good idea. All right, it will be good. Some questions, please. Rather difficult. Better ask Me questions. You can’t ask. Trouble is, the Kundalini has risen about this, you see. Then you are in thoughtless awareness and don’t want to then go into thoughts, think over. Just you can’t think of a problem or a question. What happened? Yeah, people are coming. (Hindi)

Now today we have in our presence Mr. Pradhan, who is now seventy-six, and he came to Me about twelve years back or eleven years back. He belongs to the first batch of Sahaja Yogis. And I’ve worked on them, about twenty-five of them for two years and after two years only twelve of them got Realization. After two years, can you believe it? He is one of them. And he is now going to America because I’ll be going to America so he wants to go and pave way for Me. He has come all the way from India. He is a lawyer, he’s an advocate and he has [had/that], a very great understanding of Sahaja Yoga. He’s helped Me a lot. Last time when I went to America also he came round. And he is our trustee. And we had to have a trust in India. You cannot even get a hall without a trust. Then we had a trust, and today there’s a good news that somebody has given us donation of one acre of land in Powa Lake area which is a very beautiful area in addition to what that they had given us. So I don’t know, maybe that people who want to now have places there, they could come and meditate and sit down. So it’s little far away from Bombay, about, say, I think about eight miles or so. It’s a very, very quiet area, very quiet area and there’s, there are two lakes there. It’s a very nice place. And today only I received [a / the] message saying that somebody has donated that. I was very happy that they have donated us because we could not buy any, any land, because I said that we’ll not give any black money nor any bribery or anything, and the land has to be proper price. We’ll not give extra money, [would be] public money but somehow or other now we got some land there. Now I would request one of the Sahaja Yogis to say few words about Mr. Pradhan, and then Mr. Pradhan will speak to you how Indian Sahaja Yogis have been to these people when they went to India and how they treated them and how they were kind and then Mr. Pradhan [unclear]. And Gavin will you, would you like to say few words or anyone who has been to India? Anyone.

Sahaja Yogi: Mr. Gavin.

Shri Mataji: About to see some places and Pradhan will say about his, because now he’ll be able to tell you what experiences he had. He’s an advocate and he’ll tell you some miraculous experiences he had had after Sahaja Yoga. Let’s see now. So what I said you, you’ll be little bit certified.

Sahaja yogi: Mister Pradhan it’s a, it’s a great pleasure for us to receive you here and to be able to welcome you here.

Shri Mataji: And Mrs. Pradhan is also with him.

Sahaja yogi: Mrs. Pradhan is also here and, and we owe a great deal to Bombay Sahaja Yogis and especially to the senior ones who had looked after us on many visits now. Personally, I’ve been with my wife twice to India and both times we’ve been most generously and hospitably looked after. It’s quite a different style from the kind of hospitality we offer here. It’s a good deal more giving and more complete. Really, everything was seen to.

Mr. Pradhan is such a quiet, I must [GW: a most?] unassuming personality. One doesn’t realize what a tremendous work he has done on the administrating side in establishing Sahaja Yoga in Bombay. I know he’s had a number of really remarkable experiences in Sahaja Yoga and I hope he will speak about those afterwards.

We would just like to thank him for coming to our country and wish him every success [back / in] his trip to America which I’m sure it’s going to be a very important stage in the spreading of Sahaja Yoga. And I know Mr. Pradhan will quietly and efficiently set the scene for Mataji going in September. And we have something to present on behalf of Sahaja Yogis.

Shri Mataji: [unclear] But let him speak first of all, then.

Sahaja Yogi: Maybe after.

Shri Mataji: He is My eldest [son now]. When he died he was ninety eight years old his [Hindi]. And this gentleman is no more now, this ninety years old gentleman but now he’s the eldest one.

Mr. Pradhan: I am going, I have so many thanks for Gavin for speaking very good words about me. In the first place I had pleasure to meet our London Sahaja Yogis here because I’ve been to the Lotus Feet of Mataji for the last twelve years… And I would get practicing or I got a number of instances about experience, about my experience about the, how the Divine Mother’s powers say we can achieve a great deal by [the] Self-realization at the feet of our Divine Mother.

You see, our Divine Mother Mataji had discovered this Sahaja Yoga to be the unique Sahaja Yoga, by which you have seen that thousands of people get Self-realization, irrespective of cast, creed or religion. As explained by Mataji I think already, Sahaja means born with you, pure and spontaneous. Now about my experience I tell you many people, Self-realized, they become pianists, they get songs [written] that is my experience and whatever work you do, you do it with great confidence and meditate a good manner. You see the power our Mataji, the Divine Mother, powers I have to tell you, are really tremendous… I, I must firstly say, I‘m a lawyer practicing in Bombay High Court. You see, you’ll be surprised to find the miracle about one matter in my business company. [Hindi] You see, I had an appeal in Bombay High Court. It was the second appeal from appellant. And the letter came up before his lordship Dashera’s night. As usual my [matter] of appeal was on fifteen of August. That was Friday. I remember that, that was Friday. I thought generally only four or five matters are taken up by his lordship every day. And Saturday and Sunday being holidays I was quite sure that my appeal won’t reach here at least before Tuesday. So I was on that particular day, I was very busy because I’m a trustee upon Mataji Life Eternal Trust.

Shri Mataji: He was with us, I remember.

Mr. Pradhan: And [that is/at this] reason I was doing some [work/program]. So I was quite sure that the matter won’t be, and about the whole day I was at Mataji’s residence. On that day, the Saturday and Sunday being holidays, I have called my client to see him in Bombay trying to attend the Court. But my client came very late. He came to my residence on Sunday and inquired as to what happened about my appeal. Then I told him, “Please wait. I’ll let you know.” I phoned the advocate for the other side that if he’s gone to the Magistrate and enquired as to what has happened about the matter, that they got it on the list or he should explain me. He said, “What? Are you befooling me?” I said, “What happened?” He said, “Pradhan, the matter was argued by you. The matter was disposed of on Friday.” I was surprised. I couldn’t believe the whole thing. [unclear] at my table, at my agency something has happened. Then I kept quiet. I said, “Very well. I had some misunderstanding about the whole matter.” Then I told my client, “Better see me on Monday in the High Court.” Then on Monday I went to High Court. I enquired for the judicial clerk there as to what happened about this matter which you [were/are] [fitting on the board]. He said, “Mr. Pradhan, you were here. The matter was argued on that day.” “On that day? What happened?” “Some four or five matters were adjourned. Two, three matters were compromised. So your matter [unclear] at about 4.30. And it is all sort out.” Still I was not sure. Generally the judges, they, the stenograph write the judgments. They write the judgments and send it to be signed after two, three days. So when the judgment was issued by the office I went to the office in the High Court and I saw this judgment is signed [unclear] by lordship. And it that particularly their name, my name was mentioned thrice. Mr. Pradhan and [Hindi name] [unclear], Mr. Pradhan and [unclear] and Mr. Pradhan thrice has entered, and also it was given, my name thrice. So you, you have seen from Mataji, this is what it is. This is Mataji’s power. I was on holiday, I was not present there and You went there and argued the appeal. So in the evening, so I went to Mataji’s residence and I told Mataji, “Mataji, this miracle has happened”. [She was amazed?] Shri Mataji laughed to [unclear]. “Now Mr. Pradhan, you are dealing with our President. The Adi Shakti came there, argued the matter what was in your brain and it was arranged.” I said, “These are the last powers used [unclear].”

Shri Mataji: [Hindi]

Mr. Pradhan: She, there is one fellow, one Sahaja Yogi, journalist [unclear]. He has also a wife from Baghora, is basically Indian. He had taken Self-realization at ninety-eight, and then Mataji has come to Baghora from Bombay as they had some centers there. This gentleman, ninety-eight years, he climbs two, two floors to visit Her. There was no lift. And he came there and Mataji was surprised to find [unclear]. You see, you’ll be surprised to find…

Shri Mataji: He came on a stretcher, actually. He came on a stretcher. And just to come out, he couldn’t walk up. It was nice and they were all surprised [unclear] when he got up and started walking.

Mr. Pradhan: And there was, some fragrance was coming, by coming you could see some fragrance it would go.

Shri Mataji: He said, “I got some fragrance. I got up and started walking.”

Mr. Pradhan: He got up and started walking. You see, all of you should get Realization. Because I think that we have in Bombay near about thousand of Self-realized [unclear]. You are doing a good thing in Bombay. You have got a lot of centers. And our London Sahaja Yogis also they are coming to Bombay and they help us a lot. You see, according to me I had a little to assure you of the power of Mataji in Sahaja Yoga. Whatever I must have done, I must have done by the power of Mataji. One thing is certain: She made me guru and Self-realized, your [elder] guru. See, look at my age, but look at me. You’ll be surprised to find that I am [running] seventy-seven. But still Mataji says, “Look at Mr. Pradhan. He’s working [as a young] man.” It’s Mataji’s grace. So I don’t do anything.

Shri Mataji: And he is going to America – that’s the best part of it – to help the Americans with the Sahaja Yoga. Let’s see how many Indian young Sahaja Yogis are going to come out.

Mr. Pradhan: You see, whatever work I’ll take, Mataji is going to [help me] so easily. Spontaneously it happens, spontaneously. Two, three years. I am one of the [so many at Mataji’s feet] and a trustee also.

Shri Mataji: [Hindi]

Mr. Pradhan: We have several centers in Bombay.

Shri Mataji: [Hindi]

Mr. Pradhan: We have, we have completed a [unclear] and we have very great donations. We got very big donations for [we had to build our ashrams] at Bombay, Pune, Delhi. So in Pune also [I was] appealing people to help us and what is the good cause. And we have the Mataji’s mission to [assert/extend]. You see, [the mercy/we meet] God gives us the same love and [unclear] of Mataji to help all the Sahaja Yogis to give them the Self-realization. To [unclear] we’ll help, we’ll all continue to give the Self-realization by [these]…

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] I’m just telling, he should…

Mr. Pradhan: Our Mataji [is so humble]. I’ve seen it that when we go to the seaside and when we are on the seashore I’ve seen it. See, among the ladies on the sea shore [You sleep] under the tree on sands. I’ve seen that. She is not particular about any place, whether you have [unclear] bungalow or some [unclear] instead. [unclear]. She just [receives]. Mataji never cares to look at the account. She doesn’t care [unclear].

Shri Mataji: I don’t know that.

Mr. Pradhan: She doesn’t care what money you have received, what money you have spend which is in human nature. And you’ll be surprised to find a lot of issues also in Her work. But I’ve seen how that She’s not taken lunch even till three, three thirty in the afternoon. She will [meet somebody] [unclear], Mataji, go for Her bath and change later and have Her lunch. And [shows up anything].

Shri Mataji: [Hindi]

Mr. Pradhan: Do you eat something?

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] I’m telling him to tell about the experiences of Sahaja Yoga, how he grew up. You see, this is the point, is that how one should grow. I think he has grown himself, you see, through vibrations.

Mr. Pradhan: You see, one thing is certain. Many become Self-realized. You must [do minimum a] meditation everyday. You must stick up to this Sahaja Yoga. You should not give it up. You must stick it and carry on.

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] You see how, you see negativity affects, how affected him and how you see, you should be, you should understand how to continue with Sahaja Yoga, despite all negativity, how to overcome it. [Hindi] You see, small, small things, you see, and when I tell people that don’t do this they feel very hurt. But he has found out from his experience that whatever I say it comes out of a danger that I [could know].

Mr. Pradhan: You see, I’ll tell you one experience, particular experience. You see, Mataji has beyond this power, healing power. By Self-realization you can cure any people. So what happened, in Kolhapur city, there’s a big city, Kolhapur, Kolhapur, in Bombay province. So we had a very good program there. About one hundred people had assembled among the villages. At that time, you see, the hall was full, and it was our duty to see and go around and see that the all new people are doing well, they are just seated. So what happened there was only one door, entrance door and because at the entrance door there was [a/some] small crowd, an old lady was crying. Mataji was quite busy with the work, giving vibrations to hundreds of people. So that lady was crying. I said, “What is it?” “It is about my son, [unclear] so then he became unconscious. As soon as he entered the hall he became unconscious.” Then I gave him [unclear]. I cured him, by doing the [unclear], by giving vibrations. Then he got up. That young man then got up. I’ve told his mother that, “Please now go and bow at the Feet of Mataji, that strong Lady here and go.” That lady has listened to me. And then the meditation goes on a lower only when you are not at the Feet of Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Here is just the other way round. In India if you tell somebody you are not to touch My Feet, then they are very angry. Here if you tell somebody you have to touch My Feet that person will never jump here again. Is just the other way round. Because, you see, the power was most of the Feet, you see. So that’s why those who know will jump there, but those who do not if you tell them then you had it. Better not tell. It’s a very different thing. And if you tell in India that, “You, nobody has to touch My Feet today,” because sometimes are thousands of people at My Feet; sometimes I get swollen of the way they go on touching My Feet. But if you tell them, then that’s the worst thing. The one who tells then it’s finished. They don’t like such a mention. It’s a very different situation.

Mr. Pradhan: But, Mataji, I get very good vibrations from You when I touch Your Feet. I get very cool vibrations. You see, I’ve, I think the best [of everything is to love] Mataji. They can take vibrations as if pumping the petrol in Her body you can [get/have the car]. So [unclear] that they were a bit proud. That lady went with her son at Mataji’s Feet. As soon as he touched Mataji’s Feet that fellow became unconscious again. So [I wondered the, and then I said] “Mataji, I’ve only seen this fellow became unconscious and I cured him.” Then Mataji looked at me and said, “You are a man of advanced age. You have cured him? Oh, really? So strong is everything in your body. You are now affected.” Then Mataji took fifteen minutes to cure me. I told Her my liver became very hot.

Shri Mataji: He was about to faint himself.

Mr. Pradhan: Then She has warned me, “Mr. Pradhan you are a man of advanced age. Don’t cure anybody. Because that negativity it, it [affects/attacks] you and you can catch it in your body.”

Shri Mataji: There should be no sympathy, no sympathy. You should take it easy. You see, sympathy [to form] when you are very strong enough. Otherwise no need to have sympathies with these people. It can attack you so badly, you all will get affected. With one negative person coming in the hall now, supposing somebody comes like that, all will get attacked. You see, because dirt and filth can get always attached to you. But to cleanse it, it’s difficult. To get attached, supposing somebody pours say some sort of a color, everybody will get the color. But to remove it it’s difficult. That’s what it is. So, one has to be very careful about this negativity. No doubt.

Mr. Pradhan: And these people, these persons with negativity, they always [distemper /disturb/ just trouble the guests] and first instance they should be removed from the crowd.

Shri Mataji: Now people have started understanding. Before they used to think it’s not good. We should have everyone there. But you can’t just bear. When they come out you don’t know what happens to you people. But I find there are [thousands that are attacking you people].

Mr. Pradhan: So many people I advised [unclear] of Mataji. We hope of continuing to raise their Kundalini by Sahaja Yoga and transform this world full of crimes [unclear] into the kingdom of God. I thank you very much for this invitation and…

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] Mrs. Pradhan also has been very kind to Sahaja Yoga. Though she’s not a, she’s not a trustee but she’s made lots of nice poems and she sings very well. Now she’s an old lady. And she has looked after people very well. And first of all Mr. Gaan [took really good] care. This is Mrs. Pradhan. This is the typical Maharashtrian sari that they wear in India, you see. [Hindi] [To a child: Aha, Lucia.] The photograph. You see today because of his trusteeship here.

Mr. Pradhan: Thank you.

Shri Mataji: Photograph nahi hai? [Hindi] Where is he? Then he has gone to get him. [Hindi] I feel very proud of Mr. Pradhan. I wish you people all try to follow his example.

Mr. Pradhan: According to me I’ve done nothing on the ascending part for Sahaja Yoga. It was Mataji [who has done it]. It’s a unique discovery. All of you without Realization [unclear].

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] Those people, now those people who are in charge of America Tour and all that can talk to Pradhan and discuss with him and take his addresses, suppose his address and all those people that are there and also get information as to other people’s addresses, whatever you need and then about [the program]. Give him the address of also Tim’s so that he can contact. Just tell him what is done so that he can contact. [Hindi] And Dr. Ladhu was also there No, that is additionally help. I think this is the address so you got it. [unclear]

Mr. Pradhan: Again I thank you, Mother, for Your [help].

Shri Mataji: When he came to Me first, Pradhan, he said, “Mother, I am of a very average intelligence, average income. I am nothing oustanding. And what can I help you? I mean, I’m of no good. Only think I’ll be getting help out of You. And how will I be of an instrument to You, of any, any kind of a vehicle for Your powers, I think.” But he has shown with his assiduity and understanding that he himself and whatever he could do he has done tremendously. And he really worked very hard and he seen to it that things are done properly. He is a very efficient, extremely efficient. He used to arrange all our programs and halls and things and, I mean, lots of things, at his age, very efficient, always first to arrive, last to leave, organizing everything and looking after everything and [extremely humble]. Still, it’s remarkable to have such people. It is nice to have somebody with average intelligence than have too much intelligence which would be headache, [because they never listen]. And they have a method of avoiding things and say, and something you see, and sometimes if it was not possible to forget something, do something, he would say, “Mother, please forgive me.” But he would never argue out. He’ll just say, “Please forgive me. I must have forgotten, or something might have happened,” and all that. And it was such an easy thing to be with him because I’m so bad at organizing matters, I tell you. Even I am so bad at money, you know that, and I never know how to keep accounts, and these people have been organizing money, and I have nothing to do with their money. And it’s true that I’m very bad at all that. And it is these people who are so sincere and honest that they have looked after this money and they have looked after everything. And that now they have been able to produce that land and that is very remarkable. But I would say this is Sahaja Yoga that has given them all these powers to [manage] all these things, and it has created really tremendous people out of Sahaja Yoga, no doubt. May God bless you all and I hope you all people will also see the blessings of Sahaja Yoga and will rise very much in estimation of God.

Mr. Pradhan: You see, one thing that I used to do is total surrender to the Divine Mother, total surrender. Not selfishness of mind, nothing. Then you will get a very cooling effect.

Shri Mataji: This is all right to say in India, not here. Here if you say total surrendered they’ll think they have to surrender house or car or anything. It is your ego. And ego must be surrendered. What else? You see, to surrender, the ego it’s not you. You have to surrender your ego so that you get rid of. That’s what it means. But that is understood more in India than here. Because if you say “surrender” people start thinking [unclear]. This is something, you see, an Indian mind is different from a developed mind, and this is how things work out differently. But I must say there are great saints who are born here. You are all great saints to be born like this. And they are amazed sometimes, these people are amazed the way you are dedicated to Sahaja Yoga. I mean, you have taken to it; shows that you are spiritually very tremendous, no doubt about it. I mean, if we are so that from childhood we are told we must have control on our attention because if you have to attend to God, we must get to God. From childhood we are told this. We have to get to God and we have to achieve our Self-realization. I mean, My grandchild was born and the message that I got from an astrologer because we always have an astrologer as soon as a child is born. And he sent a telegram saying that it’s the greatest thing that her guru is in the house, that her master, the teacher is in the house. And it was the biggest thing for whole family. “Oh, the teacher is in the house. That’s great. Child doesn’t have to go out to seek this.” Of course, I mean, this is our traditional way life in India. But now, of course, we are getting also Westernized. That’s different. But normally it is so. From childhood it is told that you have to take your attention to God. The attention has to go to God. But here to say something that [Divine asks for] total surrender, what is the gain? The gain is God. The gain is your Self, is your Spirit. But that is, once it is, is still in your mind, you think that is the simplest you can do because the highest you are going to get. So the difference is of understanding, but in any way quality-wise I [must/would] say you are much better than many Indians put together, no doubt, very high. Specially Indians here, I don’t know what they are doing here. I don’t know about them. So no more questions, that [he] can answer you, because he’s going now for, it won’t be any other time.

It ought to be simple. If it is complicated then it’s difficult. This truth should be simple. All right. It’s working. Please close your eyes. Now first what you will feel is that there is no thought within you and then you will start feeling the cool breeze in the hands. Close your eyes. Especially close your eyes. But this is just the beginning. This is just the germination. You have to go further with it and you have to grow into it. Better. All those who are getting cool breeze raise your hands. Now, all of you. Those who are getting cool breeze raise your hands, higher. All the Sahaja Yogis also raise your hands, those who are getting cool breeze. All the Sahaja Yogis also. [Hindi]. Now those who have come for the first time and are not getting cool breeze, raise your hands. [Hindi] It’s good. He’s got it. You felt a cool breeze? [You can see it on the hands]. [Hindi] All right? [Hindi] He is a realized soul. This is not getting? What’s the matter?

Sahaja Yogini: [He enjoys it by concentrating].

Shri Mataji: Forget now. Come. Here. Feeling the cool breeze in the hands? Are you feeling cool breeze in the hands?

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi