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Public Program. Cambridge (UK), 3 July 1981.
All the seekers of truth, I am very much thankful to you for giving Me this opportunity to meet you all over here .You are here because you are seeking and the seeking is so innately expressing itself that you cannot get over this feeling of seeking even if you want to. But perhaps I do not know if you know what you are seeking; why you are not happy; what is the expectation you have about your seeking. All of you must have had some background of seeking. Because seekers are a special category; every person on the street is not a seeker. Every person we come across is not a seeker. It’s a special category. I have seen there are seekers who are real seekers and there are also fake as we have in everything, because it’s a fashion to seek, because nice to talk of seeking.
In everything I can understand the fakeness but in seeking I cannot, because you are the gainer, you are the one who has to gain. So you should not fake it. Better try to awaken your sincerity and to get that which is real because human beings have reached such a stage of evolution that they cannot exist any more now, unless and until they find out the truth about themselves, unless and until they face the reality, unless and until they know why are they here for; they cannot go on like this, is an impossibility. All the shocks and all the horrible ideas people are giving you about the destruction of human race is because of this void that they feel, this distance they feel from reality. They feel that, “We haven’t yet seen anything that is real. Everything we venture into, any enterprise, any movement towards progress, ends up into a nonsense.” And the whole absurdity of this kind of a progress, when it comes face to face, you start feeling, “Now where are we? Are we on the right lines? Where are we moving?”
This seeking that has come to you is of course the outcome of this confusion, no doubt, that you can see intelligently, this confusion around you. One of the things is that with your rationality or with your logic I should say – rationality’s rather… can be very funny. With your logic you must have reached a point where you see this confusion, and you must be wanting to find out after all what is the solution? You work very hard, create an atom bomb, then it becomes like a devil on your head, you cannot go further with it.
Any such movement of human beings towards understanding the meaning of their existence leads into a chaos. Then it is definite that we are in a cocoon and whatever we do it comes back to us. There must be way out, there must be a method by which we get out of it and see for ourselves, “What are we here for?” You cannot solve this problem through your intelligence or through your rationality, because human mind is limited and the limited mind cannot go to something that is unlimited. Like when I came to this hall, I had to leave my car behind. But it’s very difficult to understand that with rationality you cannot reach some place and you reach that place spontaneously.
But we can derive at that conclusion, by seeing that we evolved spontaneously, we evolved automatically .We did not think about it. Say, from animal stage to this stage we have come; from amoeba stage to this stage we have come, without doing anything about it. Spontaneously it has happened. People, perhaps do not understand the word “spontaneous.” Spontaneous means it’s a happening through some living force and the living force acts on its own. It drives you up to a point, like a flower becomes a fruit. Now the flower cannot do anything about becoming a fruit. In the same way we cannot do anything about our evolution we should accept most humbly, because we have done nothing so far to become human beings. We have taken for granted our human life. But how we got it, we do not know. We did not pay any money for it. That way anything very vital to life you get it spontaneously. Like our breathing, nobody taught us breathing. We did not have to join Cambridge University to learn our breathing, did we? It comes so spontaneously as soon as we are born we start breathing. All that is vital for the progress of life comes to us spontaneously.
So if evolution is the most vital climax of our existence then it has to come to us spontaneously, we cannot do anything about it. So first of all let us relax. It’s going to work spontaneously, so why put our self up into a tension? Now, we have to see like a scientist with a very open mind, that we are not yet aware of ourselves. We do not know what are we. We know we are human beings, but are we really human beings alone? Or are we something more than that? And if we are, are we aware of that. Now we are moving only logically at this stage. Once we accept that still we are not that reality by which we can know every dimension of ourselves. If there is light we should be able to see everything in this room, isn’t it? If we have light within ourselves we should be able to see ourselves within and without .The confusion is there because this light is not yet enlightened.
But now think that, you are made a human being, but why? Why? What was the need? Why so much trouble was taken by nature to make a human being? No scientist goes into the “whys,” you see. They’ll say, “It is so.” It’s a scientific way of looking at things. Now they say, “It’s [UNCLEAR]parketted? All right, it is [UNCLEAR] parketted. They write down “This is [UNCLEAR] parketted.” Finished. Whatever they see and know they write it down, “This is so.” But they cannot say why? Why there is gravity in the Mother Earth? They cannot say that. But let us ask this question, “why.” Why are we human beings? This is the beginning of your seeking.
Now when I put forward some sort of a hypothesis for you, some sort of a idea or a theory before you, you need not get disturbed by it. Keep yourself open and see for yourself if it works or not. But for this we really need people who are ardent seekers. Like we come into any university, I would say we keep ourselves open we just don’t go and challenge every knowledge to begin with. But we try to find out for ourselves whether, whatever is said is true or not. In the same way we should keep ourselves very open about this method of the nature, which is spontaneous, and the Power that is placed within us, which is called as Kundalini – this is the name given by human beings; God has not given names to anything – that resides within us in the triangular bone.
Now it is too fantastic to believe those, “We have never heard about it.” But even in the Bible it’s said that, “I will appear before you like tongues of flames.” Can they explain what are these “tongues of flames” are? As it is, they gave no chance for Christ to speak much and there were not any university students to understand about Kundalini, about this beautiful instrument that God has placed within us; they were ordinary fisherman. So whatever they saw, according to their own understanding they have put it down.
If they could have understood Christ, they would never have crucified Him. But they never understood Him and didn’t want to understand Him. In the same way it should not happen today. We should try to understand. It’s very important, imminent and crucial .If this point is missed, big danger I can see, for a complete disaster .We are already seeing the signs of that destruction taking place within ourselves.
I’m sure somebody must have told you about this chart, the Kundalini and the way it rises. Before doubting about its existence, I would request you to know that nature has taken all beautiful care to create you. And all these centers are placed within you, they exist. When the Kundalini rises, in so many people who have obstructions, you can see the pulsation in your triangular bone. In some people we have seen very violent movement. You can seen the rising of the Kundalini also, you can see the breaking of the Kundalini here, the real baptism that John Baptist talked about .You can feel the “Cool Breeze of the Holy Ghost” emitting of your head, which is not possible. All kinds of things are floating now in the market. Of course Sahaj Yoga is not in the market. This you must have known, because you cannot pay for Sahaj Yoga. It’s an insult even to think of money. This is your own right, you are made for it. Just like this instrument is made, you are made, specially, and you are to be put to the mains.
Now for an intellectual mind, the question comes in, the first, “Why You? Why Me?” Is very common. I said “Please have it My seat sir. A good idea.” ‘Cause I have to work twenty-four hours. I mean I am very happily married and quite all right. I have no problems of My own. But if you could do My work, I’ll be very happy to retire. You are a professor, for example, that you are, one has to accept. In the same way if I am doing something then one should not feel so hurt about it. Gradually you will know that you can also do the same thing. As I am enlightened you will get enlightenment and you can do the same thing yourself. If one candle is enlightened first, do other candles object to that? Will they object to that sort of a thing?
In the same way we should not have reservations in our mind. People have been very intelligent and have been asking Me such stupid questions, that I didn’t know how their intelligence is going so blunt in My presence. Like, they will say that, “…then why You are an Indian?” Or say, “Why are You wearing a white sari?” It has nothing to do with all these outside things. It is something innate, inside you. It is eternal, it is not destructive. It resides in your heart, which is just to be brought into your conscious mind. You have to be just conscious of it, that’s all. I can see that in you and you will start seeing too. It’s your own. Only thing is that there has to be actualization, not a lecture or a brainwashing or some sort of a circus, but an actual thing that should happen within you, is the awakening of the Kundalini. This is very important, if you understand a simple thing, that if you are paying attention to Me, something falls down, something happens, your attention goes there. But if I say take your attention inside, you cannot. How can you push your attention inside, you cannot. So some happening has to take place, and this Kundalini rises.
Now what is this Kundalini? Again I say it’s an hypothesis for you so far. Kundalini is the power of desire within us, which is not yet manifested, which is not yet awakened. That’s why It creates the whole aura of a man, It creates the complete human form, complete human personality and still it has not yet manifested itself. It is still lying in a dormant state because It is still residual, It has not expressed Itself. When It is awakened, that desire is completed, then only this power of desire has manifested. Now within us there is a power of desire on the left hand side, as shown here. [I’m sorry I’m standing before this, but they must have told you. Can you put it there. Let us please show them now.] The left side, power of desire, is this one which we know as psyche, which Freud has described as psyche. But I must say Freud knew half the truth, not the full. He only knew about psyche. He didn’t know about the other power that existed within us, is the second power, is the power of action. Perhaps Sartre knew about it, but he didn’t know about psyche.
So when you say that “What’s wrong?” When you say, “There should be no conditioning. We should not accept any conditioning.” What you are doing is you are developing the other side. The first side of conditioning gives you a super ego and the other side, on the right hand side, gives you the ego. Both grow and form a calcified closure here in the head, in the fontanel bone area and that’s how you develop your own personality: This gentleman is different; you are different; you are different. And this “I-ness” develops because you are cut off. Just like an egg we can say. Now the egg starts developing itself. Till it reaches a certain maturity and just a piercing of the top of the head, knocking off the ready egg, you get the bird coming out. The bird has nothing to do, I mean it is nowhere near the egg it’s a very different thing and that is your second birth, that is how you are born again; this has to happen to you.
This happens only by Kundalini awakening, by nothing other- suggestions people give: by… say… they say you can stand on your head, Kundalini doesn’t rise. Some people will say, “You pay so much money, come for a course.” It won’t rise. It’s like a primule in a seed that has to sprout. Now what do you do to sprout a seed, do you stand on your heads? Just you have to put to the Mother earth; with Her warmth it comes out by itself. In the same way this Kundalini rises. We have to understand that you cannot pay for it. If you pay some money will the seed sprout? Or to the egg, will it become, will it become the bird? Nature’s principles are so simple, so logical, so sensible that you don’t have to read much to understand it. Actually with reading too much also we got complicated. Everybody else is in our head, we are nowhere, we are lost.
And the complexities of life become even worse when we start sorting out through this. The nature takes its own course and this Kundalini happening has to be today en masse. Thousands of people have to get Realization. That’s why you are so many born on this earth as seekers because you know the time has come that you should get your Realization because you were seekers in many lives. And this life is to be bestowed with that blessing which you have been asking for.
This has to happen. If you do not accept, makes no difference to your Spirit. Because it is satisfied by itself; it is not bothered as to how you want to have it. But it is you who should be bothered about it. You have to get it into your attention. Just like a light is there, it is not bothered whether you put it off or put on. It has nothing to do with your liking it or not liking it, it is there.
But if you desire, if you really want it, there is a mechanism within us placed in this way that we have all together seven centers, the main seven centers which demarcate our evolutionary stages. For example the lowest one, which is called as Mooladhara Chakra is the center of Mooladhara. It manifests in the – this is the subtle center – manifests in the gross our pelvic plexus. This is the center of our innocence. This innocence was created first of all, before the universe was created and this exists with in us – of course we might have lost it, that’s a different point, but that is the first thing that was created within us also, is our innocence. Now if you have to talk to a doctor he won’t understand that “What is this innocence.” But you know there is something like innocence in you.
This first center is a very important center in Sahaj Yoga. Because, the deity of innocence expresses itself, manifests itself later on, at this point where you see the red mark in the center of the brain, where the optic chiasma is, where the pituitary and pineal are placed on both the sides, a very subtle center is there called as Agnya. You can see it crossing there. And this one, the deity incarnated on this earth as Jesus Christ, our Lord, Jesus Christ. Now, no one knows about His incarnations, I think. They only understand what He said about Himself that “I have a Father,” and that “I am the only Son.” Beyond that, people do not know what was the purpose of Christ’ coming, what was the meaning of crucifixion? I think. We say that He came on this earth to forgive us our sins, you see, He takes up our sins. But how does it happen? How does it happen within us that He forgives our sins? It’s only possible when He is awakened. He’s still asleep within us. Then how can He forgive our sins? He is to be awakened first of all. If somebody can awaken Jesus within you, all these theories of karmas and all those things will be nothing but useless, old fashioned, old-dated things which has no meaning. But nobody understood this great importance of Christ’ life. I mean people came to India. There was no proper rapport between the people of England; say for example they came down to India, as far as Christ was concerned. I wish they could tell them about Christ that He was the one who has come on this earth to take all our sins and to take all our karmas. Instead of that, the kind of Christianity they spread in India could not create any rapport between the people who were seers, who were sages, to get this great message of Christ’ coming. Of course they respect Him very much, but still they do not know, they do not know. That’s all right, but the people who are supposed to be following Him, also do not know that He is to be awakened within us.
Now, we know through Sahaj Yoga that He’s the one who was called as Mahavishnu in the old ancient books of India. He’s described so well how He will come, how He will be born; what will be His position; what is His relation with other deities like Shri Krishna and all that. It’s so clear-cut. And why His name was Jesus. And why His name was Christ and everything can be clearly understood if there were some sages from this country had gone or from any country who knew Christ and had given the message to the sages in India; only the sages can talk to each other and not these people, like one pundit from India and one pastor from here; both of them are ignorant. They do not know. Christ has said that, “You do not know; you are blind. I am talking to blind people.” Now what does that mean? That means you are not yet awakened, that you have to be born again, that there has to be a happening – in every religion. Moses has said that. Mohammed Sahib has said that. He said “You have to become a pir, without becoming a pir you’ll not understand Me.” All His namaz is nothing but Kundalini awakening. But will the Muslims accept this?
If you want to understand fanaticism, if there is fanaticism within us or not. I was talking to a Muslim and I said, “You better go to Jews and ask them what they have to say about Muslims.” That’s the best way one can understand. I mean, fanatically they will prove that the other person is wrong. So is better to go and see them and know that what they think about us. Fanaticism is such a blind stuff that it can never give you any idea as to what is reality. Because whatever you believe into, you build up your own ideas and everything onto it and it’s like a fake palace built on a fake idea.And then you go on fighting.
If God is one, if His love is one, then how can people who believe in God fight? I mean I- to My reasoning it does not. You cannot fight. If He is the primordial being, if you are the part and parcel of that, will this hand fight with this hand? Who is the other? But this should happen to us. When it happens then you jump into collective consciousness. You become, again I say it’s actualization, it is not just telling, “We are all brothers and sisters, let us form a UN system.” And it’s only used for filling up some posts, that’s all.
Actually it happens, that you start feeling others on your fingers, their centers on your fingers, it happens; your awareness gets that. It’s not that one has to say, “Oh, I think I’m very happy, he is a nice man.” What is the meaning, it’s very vague. Maybe his eyes are like your mother’s eyes, maybe, that’s why you like him. Can be very superficial reason for which you like a person. But innately, what is his nature is to be found out and how will you find out? There’s no way, but to make your awareness, your instrument of awareness much sharper, much deeper, much subtler, and it just happens. When it happens you jump into another dimension of collective consciousness. Again I’ll say you jump into it. It is an actualization. It is not a mental process by which you decide. You judge people on what? On their clothes? On their races? On their nationalities? On their education? On their labor? That’s all superficial. You have to judge them on their centers, how the centers are.
When the Kundalini rises, actually She’s such a blissful thing, She is your mother. Everyone has an individual mother, every one of you. And when she rises, She blesses you so much that you get your physical being corrected. We have, we have cured cancer with this. Cancer cannot be cured by anything else but Sahaj Yog. I’ve been saying this for 10 years, but the doctors come to Me, get cured, they tell others, they say, “Oh, we can’t believe it.” People don’t want to believe into it. But cancer can only be cured through Sahaj Yog, there’s no other way out. And if you can come to some other lectures of Mine, you will know that cancer is caused by over activity of these two powers which manifest your sympathetic nervous system. The sympathetic nervous system, the over activity of the sympathetic nervous system due to any emergency whatsoever. You put a metal in the body, you’ll get it. Any emergency that arises because of the over activity of the sympathetic nervous system, which… which actually attacks the emergency, you develop cancer. And it can only be cured really by Sahaj Yog. There are so many diseases like diabetes, heart, innumerable innumerable, they can be cured by Sahaj Yog, physically. Paralysis- I mean I don’t know, so many varieties, except for where, I mean some dead things have been put inside or then you cannot.
Because your physical being achieves that stage in which it is bathed all the time in the vital forces. This Kundalini opens you to the divine love of God, which is all pervading and this divine love is the energy of God which has all the energies of the world: Electromagnetic energies, all the energies that have created the elements, the emotional energy, the mental energies, of all the things is the spiritual energy. So mentally also you get all right. Now we have had people who were addicts, absolutely gone cases. They just got rid of their addiction, because if you somehow or other discover yourself, your reality, you just become a different person. You become so relaxed; you are not bored anymore; you enjoy yourself so much, because you are beautiful, the beauty resides within you. And that beauty when you discover, you find, “Oh God, I’ve been so superficial in my life. This beauty is there hidden within me.” And you just give up automatically. I never tell people, “Don’t do this, don’t do that.” No don’ts in Sahaj Yoga.
You just come, get your Realization you may become mentally so, so relaxed that all these problems drop out. There’s nothing fantastic for Me, but maybe for you it is too much to believe. But it is better to see for yourself how it works, how it has worked out and how it can work out with you. You yourself can work it out, it will become your own knowledge, your own property, your own maneuvering, and you will be able to handle it. In this short time, it’s not difficult to say broad lines of Sahaj Yoga, but to talk in details is going to be very difficult. Now I don’t know how many lectures I must have given; only in Caxton hall must be at least three hundred or four hundred lectures and otherwise I don’t know how many. So, this is just a broad line idea about Sahaj Yoga.
This must give you assurance in life first of all, that if somebody is saying so, lets try, worth trying. But it’s very amazing, last time we had about hundred-and-fifty people in Cambridge and I think only one person stuck on to Sahaj Yoga. Everybody felt the vibrations no doubt, everybody felt the cool breeze. But what happened with them is that when they went out they started thinking about it, they lost it. It is like sprouting of the seed as I said, that the small gentle seeds, seedlings are to be looked after. When it sprouts, if you just throw them, they can be destroyed. So, one has to be careful for at least a month to preserve this sprouting. Once you have managed this one month then I am sure it will settle down. You don’t require anything much to be done; few methods of cleansing yourself, sustaining yourself and keeping yourself afloat. If you could dedicate only a month to yourself you will definitely come up, no doubt and people have done it I mean in places like Brighton now I would say in France it has worked out, but Cambridge has been little disappointing. I hope this time you people will take it up little seriously. Because it’s the most important thing that you have to have and this is the most vital thing.
If you do not get it and if you are not there, only thing I have to tell you that the last judgment has started and you are going to be judged by your Kundalini. You yourself you are going to judge your Kundalini and you are going to judge your own chakras; there’s a big rope given and you yourself will know that “This is my defect and this is my defect,” and you will also know the defects of others in the words of Sahaj Yoga.
For example, while coming here only, one gentleman said, “I have got an Agnya.” This means ego. But he said it to Me; for him it does not matter because it’s paining a little bit there. Apart from that, that the ego is paining, that he is away from ego, he can see his ego he doesn’t want to have it. So he said, “Mother, my ego- my Agnya is catching,” not ego, he says Agnya. But that’s how you cleanse yourself. If you have to even repair your car, you have to get out of it. In the same way you get out of this shell and then you correct yourself.
I don’t know what to say further but I would request you to ask me some questions, that would be a better idea to explain certain things to you and then we’ll have our Realization. But please note that question answering is not going to give you Realization, it’s a happening. The other day I had a lady from a newspaper, she’s a very well known writer this that, and I found her to be a very difficult person to give Realization and she said, “Am I a hopeless case?”
I asked her, “What’s the matter with you?”
She says, “I don’t know, I, I am… I, I, I am a gone case.” And she writes so well she’s a very well known successful woman. Of course she got her Realization, but it took so much time for her to get her Realization. While some of you might get it just like that and lose it also just like that, so one has to understand the value of it. I do not know at what pace it is retained, but once you have achieved it, you have to pay attention to it. It is your own, it’s your own property, that’s the only thing you really possess. The other possessions are just myths. That’s the only thing you carry with you; that’s the only thing that is going to adore you an to give you that joy of belonging and happiness – belonging to the whole, to the primordial being, not to a small self, selfish, self centered mind, but to the Self, which is the part and parcel of the whole. That you are already, but you are not aware of it. What Sahaj Yoga does is that it brings into your consciousness the manifestation of the spirit which you can do consciously, means through your central nervous system you can feel it. When the Kundalini pierces through, you can feel the Cool Breeze flowing from your hand, “The Cool Breeze of the Holy Ghost,” as they say.
I wish you could ask me some questions and that’s how I can explain certain things which might be hovering in your mind .May God bless you all. Thank you.
Seeker: What is the meaning of nirvana, which is the essential point of Buddhist thought. Is it a kind of more a Buddhist mortal- I mean Indian [MORTALITY/MODALITY], as a Mohammed Iqbal, one of the Muslims…
Shri Mataji: Just come here, I just can’t follow you. Come here, please. Yes. Again.
Seeker: … ask you about a meaning of nirvana, which is the essential point in the Buddhist thought and because we could not find it in books in the Iraq saints and you know, as you know the, Mohammad Iqbal, one of the Muslims…a philosopher –
Shri Mataji: Of course! Mohammad plays a big part in Sahaj Yoga I mean, for us He’s absolutely the primordial master. For us He’s so great. I mean, for us He’s not just a Muslim or anything, He- for us He is a universal being. For us He’s very great, you see? So Mohammad is – where is Mohammad in you, just tell Me? Where is He? Where does He exist? You do not know. Where is Christ? No, that’s the problem. You must know where is Mohammad, which part of ours that Mohammad has enshrined, which part of ours He has enlightened. Is very necessary for you young people to know it. Now see what’s happening. Look at these Jews, look at these Christians, look at these Muslims and look at these Hindus. What are they doing about God? They are butchering Him every moment don’t you think so? We have to understand all these great people in their right sense through Sahaj Yoga. How? Because once you get these vibrations in your hand now, see here like this, then you can ask a question about Mohammad Sahib. Ask a question, “Was Mohammad Sahib was born on this earth as the primordial master?” Ask the question and immediately you’ll start getting Cool Breeze, tremendous Cool Breeze. Yes He was. A person, you will be surprised, a person who worships, say, Guru Nanak and denounces Mohammad sahib, if he gets a cancer, he will definitely get, if you denounce anybody you will get cancer. Then I have to ask that person that “You have to worship Mohammad Sahib in the same way. If you do not I cannot cure your cancer.”
Christ has said very clearly, “Those who are not against Me, are with Me.” Mohammed Sahib has clearly said that He was any, He-
END OF SIDEA
[missing audio in changeover between sides.]
SIDE B Begins
Any other questions please. Please ask Me questions because when I go away they will just come out and bother you.
(Can you come forward please,
[FV side 2 starts here:]
[unclear remark from a man.]
Shri Mataji: Yes please.
Man: You mentioned the path Mohammed and Christ and Buddha and so forth, is the lineage of prophets [UNCLEAR: write in stone], but most of these religions are expecting
Shri Mataji: Just… just come here. You see, English is not My mother tongue so, you see, any-
Man: Well you’ve mentioned lineage of religions, of Buddha and Mohammed, ’cause Janak was not in the other [lineage?] …and quite rightly so involved as a very strong competition to [myth?]. But in the case of Christianity, which of course obviously You speak with great fervor, there is the second coming, a spiritual second coming of course, involved. How do You think what you’re teaching will fit into that ultimate conception, when that absolute reality-
Shri Mataji: Not immaculate conce- Absolutely. Absolute reality, no doubt, absolute.
Man: I mean what contribution have You got to make-
Shri Mataji: -For that…
Man: …to that when it comes along. How does what You teach fit in?
Shri Mataji: I will tell you, please be seated.
Now say, one simple thing that when Christ come before you how will you recognize? Will you recognize Him? You cannot. Any second coming comes. Actually when He comes He’s not going to talk to anyone. He’s just coming with the lashing thing in His hand. He’s just going to sort out, all right? How will you recognize Him? The first contribution will be that you will recognize Him through vibrations. Second contribution, about Me also there is already mentioned: I have to give you the counsel. And other things also there; I do not want to say something that will really make you unhappy or maybe some of you may be shocked, but lots of things are written about Me also in the Bible. But the people were so gross, so very gross, that Christ could not say many things which He could have said openly, but He did say in a way. The whole Bible is like that, especially Christ’s life. There’s a book about Me, “Advent.” Please go through that. in that there is a mention. But unless and until you are realized you can’t get the book, see it’s a secret. I do not want to get crucified this time again, all right? But He is going to come, no doubt, no doubt. But before He comes, better get to the Kingdom of God. Only Mother can do this work, isn’t it? That’s important, to know that Christ is there. How will you know?
Man: Am I right in thinking, if I may just finalize what I have in mind, that Mohammed of course, looked upon Christ as the major Prophet and Islamic religion looks forward to the time when Christ returns to spread Islam throughout the world as the universal religion. But the definition of Islam is the total dedication, devotion to God, surren- total surrender to God. And do You still look upon Christianity as the – even though it’s malpracticed, obviously – do You still look upon Christ as being the major prophet of the lineage, indeed the final prophet.
Shri Mataji: No it is not so.
Man: He’s not a final prophet?
Shri Mataji: If it was, why is He, why is the second coming needed?
Man: Well yes, You’re a quite- Yes, no, no You missed my point-
Shri Mataji: You see this is how they do it, you see. Supposing I say, with disgust I’ll say, “I am the last time coming to Cambridge.” But maybe I may again feel like coming.
Another man: But does what You mean in fact imply, does, does it imply that He’s coming back to fulfill all the prophets, to finish the-
Shri Mataji: You see, we see some- we see Christ as a separate entity, that’s why you think like that. For example when you enter in the room you enter the whole body, with your eyes, with nose, with ears, with all the aspects that you are. Supposing you are a professor or a lawyer, whatever is, all that is within you isn’t it? All the aspects you enter in, so whatever you do you do the whole, that moment, that part.
Now I don’t know how can you say that Christ- I cannot put Him as separate. Supposing this hand is eating the food all right and this is wiping the thing, now which is the ultimate? Like the whole evolution has to come up to this stage where you become human beings; you have to enter into the kingdom of God and those who deny it are to be destroyed by Christ. Will you call Him the last, the- you see it’s… it’s the whole play is like that. Nobody is more important or less important in this body. Even a pin pricks you, you feel the hurt, the whole body, it’s the question of the whole, it’s not the question of one person, you see. [ASIDE: You understand what’s this? Thank you very much.] So, whether it is Mohammad or whether it is Christ, all of them are important to us, very important, you will be surprised how much important they are to us. We cannot neglect any one of them.
Any one of these centers if they are neglected we are in trouble. All the centers are to be corrected, are to be perfect and they also help. Like, will you say that this roof is more important or the foundation is more important? You see, the whole is important and every part of the whole is important and I cannot conceive of anything like a separate [thing?]. When Christ came He came with all His powers, when Mohammad Sahib came He came with all His powers, but that was the time when they had to come a particular type of work. For example today I have come, if I have come like them, I have come to give you awakening, that’s My job. And that’s what I’m doing. I am not going to tell “Don’t,” like Moses came out with Ten Commandments; of course I will establish that within you later on. But I am not going to tell you that. That’s why some people don’t understand why Christ didn’t talk against alcoholism, because He came at this point, at the ego point, Mohammad sahib came at that point. All the primordial masters have denounced alcoholism because it goes against your awareness, which is sustained by your liver and the liver gets spoilt and that’s why they were against it.
You see, at what place, at what position they arrive, what is there job: that’s what they do. For example, see a train is moving, all right? Then it stops at a point. And whatever is the problem at that point is done by the person in charge. If the train doesn’t move from there, how will it reach the station? Now will you say that the reaching the station is the last [word?]. Every step is important [ED DEL: for the station,] for the train to move. So everybody has played a very important role, equally important, there is nothing like one person being important, that… we don’t think like that. Or why human beings think like that? There’s a reason for that, you see because by thinking like that they can form a cult, they can form a “ism,” as you said, some sort of thing and then they can become important. But to be very frank none of them who have formed such cults have any idea as to what God is, even those who talk of Kundalini, you’ll be amazed.
I am Myself amazed, people have written such big books; such big books they have written without knowing where the Kundalini is. Can you imagine such ignorance and such audacity? Hitler used to talk about God. I mean, anybody can talk about God, this is what it is. So we have to see the whole thing in entirety, not to prove anything higher, lower or anything, first of all let us get to our Self, let us get to our Spirit through which you are going to know all the truth about them. And then you will see their glory one after another.
What a beauty it is to see them in one unity, in one unison, in complete concord. We cannot understand how they are united, because human beings, even husband wife are not united among human beings, I mean, the nearest relationship they say, even there they are not united, so human beings can’t understand how they are completely united, absolutely in unison. There’s no discord at all, even not this much. They are perfect beings, they are ideals. We are imperfect that’s why we see it that way. They are absolutely coordinated. They are not human beings.
But the beauty of human beings is that they can become divine. You see for a divine personality it’s impossible to change, you cannot just change, you are changed forever a permanently fixed position. But they can change. You are human beings not divine people and that’s your beauty. So understand them in such a way that they are all one. There’s nothing like higher, lower – this is not existing. This is all right for academic career or sort of a, we can have a theology or something like that. But it is not theology, it is no philosophy or anything, it is absolutely the reality, which exists; you can see for yourself. Why not get Realization and see for yourself it is true or not? Why not see for yourself, that’s the best isn’t it, to become that and see for yourself if they are all one or not, because you can feel it.
What’s[unclear, sounds like “Arr”] doing?.
Lady: When You say that all the religions say that you have to die, we can’t even do that.
Shri Mataji: Nobody says that, who says that?
Lady: Well you have to die before you die to be born again.
Shri Mataji: Yes, very true. But that, that I agree. But that death doesn’t mean that you die the way you are supposed to die, no. You see every flower has to die before it becomes a fruit, every egg has to die before it becomes the bird, isn’t it? In the same way what dies within us is our Mr. Ego and superego; they are sucked in. So nothing to be frightened of.
Man: You die to live.
Shri Mataji: Die to live, that’s the point is. Die to live, live a higher life.
Yes. Is there any…?
Man: Mother, we read about [UNCLEAR: You with an ???] Have You made [INDISTINGUISHABLE.] Is there any relationship between the ability to transform the easy yoga with which You are [fittex?] and our diet?
Shri Mataji: The?
Man: Our diet, what we eat.
Shri Mataji: No it has nothing to do, much. Is not so important. Is not very important. You see diet and all that we have paid too much importance to it, there’s no need to bother about. It is even, I tell you, you’ll be surprised, that I have seen people, Sahaja Yoga is such a grace these days, it’s such a gracious thing, that a person came to Me, he got his Realization. Now he was the man who was really a very bad man from every angle, you see? He got Realization. I was amazed at the grace; it’s so forgiving. Diet and all these things you just forget just now, because there’s nothing important, it’s nothing important. We pay too much attention to these things, you see. Now for example, vegetarianism, what’s the use of such extreme vegetarianism, I just can’t understand; are we going to give Realization to chickens, or to bugs. We are more worried about animals then about human beings, isn’t it?
Man: But isn’t human being an animal too.
Shri Mataji: Ah?
Man: Is an human being an animal, as well though?
Shri Mataji: What is it he said?
Man2: Is not a human being also an animal?
Shri Mataji: That’s what you have to become divine now. The animal stage will be over very soon. Human being is at that stage where he is going to become divine, you see he’s the most important thing. I cannot give Realization to any other animal, but if you call human beings them, that’s all, they only the ones who are going to get Realization. But is nothing important, these things are not important, we should not divert attention from the main thing, like some people believe that if they do this thing they will achieve God. No it’s not that. But later on, all your priorities change, all your ideas about these things change and you start understanding what is, what is the thing needed to sustain yourself. [ASIDE: all right]. Nobody has achieved anything by doing all these things so far, this we must accept; that we have not achieved anything by doing these things, so far. Have we felt the Cool Breeze which is described in all the scriptures? Of course I must say that Adi Shankracharya described it in a very big book “Chaitanya Lahari.” Have we felt that? No, we have not. So accept it. So what’s the use of doing the same things again, better get it in within yourself.
Among Hindus also, I would say that they denounced Krishna at the time when Jainism came in because they thought that He killed many demons and killing according to them was Samhara, was a violent thing. Well what do you do to the demons, you don’t kill them? Are you to garland the demons? And the Goddess destroyed so many demons, what does She do? She has to worship them? This kind of kindness doesn’t exist with the wrathful God.
In the car you have got an accelerator and also a brake. You have to have that, otherwise how are you going to control these horrible people? Passivity is to be denounced absolutely; neither aggression is to be accepted. Both things are just the same. Hitler started his work very slowly, that time the Jews if they were not so passive, this poison would not have accumulated and this horrible shame that came on humanity would not have occurred.
And the whole basis of Krishna’s teachings are this; in the Geeta He says that, “What’s the use, a weak man having non-violence? Is a cowardice.” He’s telling Arjuna that, “Raise your weapons against these horrible people.”
And he got into kaivalya, he said, “I don’t want to do it. I don’t want to kill my own relations.”
He said, “Who dies. You have to punish them.”
So all these ideas also are very much with in us, specially now I find, in the West that, “We feel very guilty, we should not do this we should not do that.” Of course one should not aggress. Aggression comes also through inferiority I think, through insecurities also, can be cruel, can be very much egoistical. Both things are just the same. As you see here the ego and the superego; the ego is in yellow color and the deep blue color is the super ego. Both of them are to be given up. It’s not only one side that is to be given, both the sides. When a person is Realized, he doesn’t aggress nor does he take aggression. Like Christ we can say, now look at Christ, who took a hunter in his hand and started beating all the people who were making money near the church. We still have fetes and all that in the churches you see that goes on. He stood by a prostitute; what a prostitute had to do with Christ? He stood by her and He said, “Come along now, who wants to put the stone has to say that he has not committed any sin,” Such valor and such glory. There’s no place for cowardice. Mostly the aggression is due to cowardice. It’s a very balanced personality you develop in which you are love, but love can punish, it punishes. It gives a very long rope and a very long rope and a very long rope, but it punishes.
Lady: Mother, would You please, would… that is, this yoga is an actual revolution and it typically says, I think, that’s that one has to, to actually jump. I think You said something like that
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Lady: You have to make that jump. Do You say that? [Unclear]…
Shri Mataji: It is a breakthrough. You see, there’s no word, proper word to express it, but I would say it’s a breakthrough; your attention becomes that. In simple analogy you can understand: this room, if you put the lights it gets enlightened. In a simple way to understand it, it happens to you, you don’t have to jump in a way that you don’t have to push your awareness, nothing, it just happens to you. It just happens to you, you just get it. All right? You don’t have to do anything.
Lady: I’m probably going to [UNCLEAR]
[Another lady makes an inaudible comment.]
Shri Mataji: What is it, in particular?
Lady: …try the meditation.
Other lady: [inaudible] so you’ll first get it from Her…
Shri Mataji: Now, you see you have to be in meditation, you cannot do meditation.
Shri Mataji: All right?
Lady: …do meditation…
Shri Mataji: You have to be in meditation and that’s a stage you arrive at.
Lady: Yes. Yes…
Shri Mataji: Another analogy if I tell you: supposing you are standing in the water and you are afraid of the waves that are coming, this thought is coming then another thought is coming. But supposing by any chance you get into a boat. Then a state comes in, in which you see this, you become a witness. It’s a state, it’s a state of your awareness where you just become a witness; the whole becomes a drama, you are no more involved into it. But you become dynamic because you can see it, because dynamic powers start flowing through you. You are dynamic power. Only thing, you have to allow it to flow and the dynamic power of love. It is rather inconceivable with intelligence, you have to achieve it. Then you will start saying, “Oh God, what is this?”
Lady: During that, one has to make an effort.
Shri Mataji: No effort at all. [Mother laughs]
Lady: I’m good at it…
Shri Mataji: No effort of any kind.
American lady with southern drawl: Can You explain the fasting, prayer chanting, mind expanding drugs being used to activate the Kundalini, the state of awareness You talking about?
Shri Mataji: I didn’t follow her at all. Just come.
American: Can such things as prayer, fasting, chanting…
Shri Mataji: Nothing.
American: Can they be used?
Shri Mataji: No nothing, nothing.
American: Just like that?
Shri Mataji: Nothing that’s all. Nothing.
I’ll tell you about each one of them, is very interesting. Now say prayer, prayer is like telephoning without the connection being made. Chanting is really pestering. Because say, we have to now meet the queen of England, for example, and we go there and start shouting, “Elizabeth, Elizabeth.” I shouldn’t say that also, because you’ll be arrested. There should be some protocol, some arrangement by which you are connected, and then only you can go to her. Even the queen of England, while I am talking of the queens of queens of queens, you see? So this is second: chanting. And which is the third thing you said, prayer, chanting…
Shri Mataji: Fasting. Now for heaven’s sake don’t fast. In Sahaj Yoga it’s sinful to fast. I mean you should eat something, because God has made this beautiful earth, beautiful everything for you to fast… is it? I’ll give you an example we had one gentleman who was a great worshiper of this deity of innocence, Ganesha, and he got a prostate gland trouble. He came to Me and he said, “Mother, how is it because this is the one which protects prostate gland and I have got prostate gland trouble and I worship this Ganesha and I’m a Sahaj yogi, I’m a realized soul and I understand its significance. How is it still it happens, this problem?”
So, this is the thing we give as My, what you call, prasad, to people, called as channa. And in fasting, Indian fasting they don’t take any carbohydrates – you see these are all things they have devised. So I said, “All right, you have My prasad,” I told him, “You’ll be all right.”
So he looked at it, he said, “Today I am fasting.”
I said, “Fasting for what?”
He said, “Today is the birthday of Ganesha, that’s why I’m fasting.”
I said, “Supposing a child is born in your house, do you fast that day? If somebody dies you may fast? Why should you fast? What is there to feel so miserable that He’s born in your family, born in this world and you are celebrating his birthday with a fast?”
You will be amazed. With that giving up fast he got all right. You have to please the deities isn’t it? No fasting is allowed in Sahaj Yoga. Of course, if you want, for your health’s sake is all right, but not for God; for God’s sake do not fast. You can fast for yourself, if you want to, that nobody has any objection to. But for God, I mean why bring bad name to Him? And to a mother, the best way to punish mother is to fast. You see supposing the child is angry with mother he will not eat the food, finished, the mother is finished then, that’s the last weapon. So you want to punish your mother then you can fast. It is all a way of regulating your diet and all that, is different. But it has nothing to do with God or divinity or anything.
And why suffer? Another thing is suffering, “We must suffer.” Why? Christ has suffered for you, isn’t it? Now you don’t have to suffer any more. Again, for Gods sake, do not suffer. The way they show Christ sometimes I’m amazed, you see, just bones and hanging like that, how can he be like that? Because they are miserable they want to make Christ look like that. How can He be a miserable, just a bone skeleton? Any one of you cannot carry the cross that He had carried; with those bones like that, will He be able to carry? In the Sistine Chapel, if you see the frescoes made by… who’s done that? Who’s the one?
Shri Mataji: Michelangelo, Michelangelo has done it. He has shown Christ just like a hefty person. And that’s the right style, because he was a realized soul. While down below, you see they have placed a bony structure there… This is Christ. I mean if you see the difference between the two you’ll be amazed. How can these people be miserable first of all. But we want to believe we are miserable, like French: les miserables, they are. I’ve made lot of fun out of their les miserables condition.
Do not delve in all this nonsensical ideas. If you have read Lord Byron, then you don’t get Realization for the same reason; all these miserable creatures trying to make others miserable. If you have read Blake, that’s the person. Blake has talked of Sahaj Yoga, if you read Blake, “Milton” is the book, He has talked of Sahaj Yoga completely entirely about it, He’s just also said where the ashram will be: Lambeth’s Vale, there is the ashram we have got. You must read William Blake. What a poetry. What a prophet you’ve got and here you are reading this horrible, nonsensical man, this Lord Byron. He had no character and no morality, hopeless fellow, making everybody cry. I don’t know how you call him a poet, by what chance. And there’s a statue of his put there. Nobody has seen the statue of Blake, they don’t like him I think. Oh you have lots of things you have inherited, Stonehenge, so many things you have got, you’ll know about them, how great you are.
England is the heart of the universe. Do you know that? It is the heart of the universe and it is lethargic. It can be proved. You can ask the question, “Is London, is England heart of the universe?” You will get vibrations on this point. You’ll start getting the cool breeze.
Any other question?
There are some very good people today, I can feel it.
Man at first inaudibly, then: How does Sahaj Yoga influence a man’s, or a woman’s, personal destiny, how would man or a woman who’s got a question in his mind, sort-of, as he goes through life, you know, this was going to be in the bar, but who’s going to… when you beating a headache. [UNCLEAR] He’s [disconnected?]-
Shri Mataji: You see the thoughts-
Man: …[unclear] next life and if so, so where I’m going to be, what am I going to do for…?
Shri Mataji: What am I going to do? Yes, these questions. These questions come to you either from the future or from the past. You think of the past or of the future, but not of the present. One thought comes and goes into the past. Another thought comes, goes into the past. Sometimes you get your thoughts even from your past and in between these thoughts there’s a little space. Your attention cannot stay there, but after the Realization your attention is there in the present. When the Kundalini rises above this point, you become thoughtlessly aware, nirvichar samadhi, thoughtlessly aware. Aware but thoughtlessly, which is called as nirvichar, means thoughtless samadhi, “dhi” means awareness, samadhi: when it is balanced. And when it pierces through your fontanel bone area, then you become completely relaxed; the drama is over, and we start feeling the cool breeze. Just now many of you are in thoughtless awareness, try to see if you are thinking, watch My thing here and see if you are thinking.
Many would have liked to ask Me questions but because of that they are not asking, because no thought is coming. You are listening to Me, you are very aware, but no thought is coming. It’s a very difficult state normally it’s not possible, but your Kundalini does that.
Lady: Is it not possible to arouse the Kundalini prematurely. I’ve understood about the Kundalini all my life and have been taught that if the person is not spiritually advanced sufficiently, then the power when it is aroused prematurely, can burn up, sort of, the other chakras and insanity can even happen –
Shri Mataji: Yes
Lady: – if the person’s not spiritually advanced enough when it is aroused.
Shri Mataji: All right, I’ll tell you all about it.
Shri Mataji: Please be seated. You see most of these people who talk of Kundalini, have no authority to raise Kundalini.
Lady: I’m talking about Madam Blavatsky Have You heard about –
Shri Mataji: Do you think she had authority?
Lady: Yes, I do.
Shri Mataji: I don’t think so, I’m sorry. Because none of these things will happen to you if you’re authorized by God. On the contrary, on the contrary, it is such a blissful experience. She wrote it many have written, I have already told you, but what they have done is unauthorized behavior. Like a villager supposing comes to city, who has never seen the lights, all right? And puts his fingers direct into the plugs and says, “Oh! I got a fright.” Its like that only; they have no knowledge of Kundalini, nothing and no authority, you cannot put the authority upon yourself, it’s something that is with you, you are born with it. They just say… you believe it, I don’t know why you believe it, if she has –
Lady: Was something dangerous.
Shri Mataji: But what has she done? Has she given to anybody Realization?
Lady: I think so, yes.
Shri Mataji: Whom?
Lady: Quite a few people.
Shri Mataji: Whom?
Lady: I wouldn’t like to name [unclear]-
Shri Mataji: Nobody! Not one person not a single soul. Realization is a very different thing: then you talk like Kabir, you talk like an authority. Not a single soul has been given Realization. I don’t want to bring in people because no use having controversies. For Me she’s also another seeker. But those who appropriate these properties within themselves, but show if they have given Realization to anyone. What do you expect out of Realization is collective consciousness, Jung has said it.
None of her disciples… I’ve yet to come across any disciple who has got collective consciousness. For example a gentleman came to me he said, “My Kundalini’s awakened.”
I said, “How do you know?”
He said, “I know I have got it.”
So, “But how?” I said, “Can you tell me about this gentleman if he has got his Realization or not? What is the center catching in him, can you tell me?”
He said, “No how can I tell?” Then you haven’t got Realization. As soon as you get your Realization immediately you can start feeling your centers and others’ centers; even children can tell you. That’s the sign of a realized soul; it’s not self certification. All right? It should happen within you by which you can feel it. You can say by feeling that, “Yes, this gentleman is catching on this…”
One gentleman came and asked Me, “Mother, why everybody is asking about my father? Anybody who comes to me who are Sahaja Yogis, they come and ask me, ‘What about your father?’ What’s the matter?”
I said, “Because there’s a center for a father, which is catching.”
You put ten children, if they are realized, and bind them and ask them to put hands towards one person. Ask them, “What’s wrong with him?” He’ll say this. That means the person feels guilty for nothing at all -this finger, means this left Vishuddhi, this. Every one will say the same, because truth is same. If you have reached the absolute, there should be no difference of opinion whatsoever, how can there be? Relativity comes only when there is no absolute.
I don’t want to criticize anyone nor to bring any controversies, all right? You are all dear to Me, but I am just telling you that don’t believe into things. Today I am before you. Forget all that. Have it. After Realization you will know who was realized and who was not realized, before that no use talking. I praise here William Blake and there I denounced Lord Byron: there must be some reason for it. But you can see in the language into everything, what an authority William Blake had. And this crying baby, crying for God, shows that they are in separation.
It is as simple as that. A lady who has met her husband, who is in love with him, you can see from her face. And the one whose husband is away, who is pining for him, you can see on her face. Very apparent. But for a realized soul it is very easy to know. I’ll tell you Lord Mount Batten was a realized soul .You won’t believe that.
Man: I would.
Shri Mataji: But his Lady Plevesky was not. Lord Mountbatten was a realized soul, I told some people about it, just by-the-way. And one day we were watching the TV and some of the Sahaj Yogis were sitting. Suddenly they got vibrations they said, “What?”
I said, “This is it.”
I mean they may look to be very simple, ordinary people, mundane type, they might be realized souls. How will you know? That’s what I’m saying. The gentleman who asked Me question has disappeared now, he must have come from some church, he doesn’t want to give that up.
I said, “How will you know Christ? How will you know?” Forget about all that, makes no difference.
Mr. Phillip who’s sitting here, when I asked him, “How many Gurus you have been and what books you have read,” he gave me such a big, you see, papers, bundle of papers, which I didn’t know how am I to read that, no! Thank God he read so many, so he was not identified with any one, thank God. So it can be anything, but so far we have not found it, so why accept anyone whatsoever. You have to just accept yourself that’s all; Sahaj Yoga is as simple as that. You ask a simple question before Me, “Mother, am I the Spirit? Or am I [the – DEL] my own teacher?” You are your own teacher, but you have to get Realization for that. Before that the Mother is your teacher, but once you get your Realization you are your own teacher.
Now let’s see. Put your hands towards Me please. Just like this. Both the feet are to be on the ground. Just like this. And close also. Because when Kundalini rises above this Christ [UNCLEAR], this dilation of the pupils takes place and if the eyes are not closed…[microphone is bumped.] Don’t push your attention anywhere, do not force yourself into anything, just keep your attention loose, don’t think about anything, it will just work out, the Kundalini has to rise. Firstly you’ll find you are thoughtlessly aware and then you will find a cool breeze flowing in your hand. It’s very simple as that. Now what I do is to conceive you in My heart, and give you immaculate birth through your Sahastrara, through your fontanel bone area.
Do not feel guilty; one thing please do not do is to feel guilty. Actually all of you should say, “I am not guilty.” Is a very common disease of the West. What are you guilty about? I mean what sins can you commit compared to the Ocean of Love of God. I am talking of the Ocean of Love. So be kind to yourself. If the light has to come in you, be kind to yourself. You are the shrine of the Spirit. Now please do not blame yourself for anything.
[Shri Mataji rubs Her hands together and blows on them while giving Realization.].
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi