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Public Program Day 4. New York (USA), 27 September 1981.
Yesterday as I told you that we are going to have a series, one after another, and yesterday I explained to you the introductory part of Sahaja Yoga. As I said, ‘Saha’ means ‘with’, ‘ja’ means ‘born’. Is born with you. It is inborn. Is spontaneous. Is living. Whatever is born with you is living. For, your fingers, hands, everything is living. And this system is born with you.
Yoga means the union with your Spirit. Simple, it’s very simple meaning.
Yoga means to join. To join you with your Spirit, with the Divine. This is born with you, this right to be one with the Divine is born with you. Is your birthright.
But is Sahaja Yoga. Now, to say that it is My method, or it is today’s method, would not be correct. Because this is the method of anything that is spontaneous.
Like you see a seed sprouting, a flower becoming a fruit, an egg becoming a bird, or you see a caterpillar becoming a butterfly. All this is Sahaja.
Is in-born within us. And this is existing within us, of which people were aware thousands and thousands of years back. Not only in India, you’ll be surprised.
They were aware in England, they were definitely aware in Egypt, they were aware in Greece.
Recently I went to Greece, to Athens, and I was surprised. Athens was, comes from the word Athena. Athena is their Goddess.
Actually they don’t know much about Her. But Atha in Sanskrit means primordial. She is the primordial Kundalini. Athena – is the primordial Kundalini, the Mother of the pri… expressed as the primordial Kundalini, or the primordial Mother. And She has in Her hand a snake, which goes round into circles creating chakras.
It’s so clearly shown, but they are not aware of it. And they even have – you’ll be amazed – the daughter of that Athena which is placed in among all of us, and they called this bone as sacrum, means a sacred bone. The word sacrum has come from Greek language – is the sacrum, means the sacred bone, that they were aware that in this bone lies something that is very sacred.
And I asked them “How did you get this idea, was that Alexander the Great who brought these ideas to you?”.
They said “No, this is, this is thousands of years back we had a rapport with people who were Indians, Indo-Aryan groups, and that’s how we know about it”.
Is most amazing. And so many other things I discovered which was so surprising, and so enlightening, that these people were very much aware of it.
Now, in England there is a place called Stonehenge. I went to see that place, Stonehenge: has tremendous vibrations. Tremendous vibrations – the whole working of it is nothing but the three and a half coils it is placed, and it has come out of the Mother Earth.
But people did not understand, they started covering it up and all they made into some sort of a pattern. But actually the main thing must have just come out of the Mother Earth; and it has tremendous vibrations and people don’t understand what it was.
That means people did practice this Kundalini business there.
I went to Colombia, I was surprised in Colombia: they told Me that the emblem of the Navy is a… what you call that? Condor, condor. Condor is called as a Garuda in Indian language, I don’t know if you know. It’s a very big eagle-like thing, condor. And they said condor is the emblem; I said: “Why condor? I mean, what has condor to do with the navy, I can’t understand”.
So they said: “It is because our old people tell us that from India – that is Bharat – from India a God called Vishnu came on a condor”. Thousands of years back these people said about Vishnu who came on a condor.
I mean, I was amazed at their description and how did they know, I said: “How do you know?” They said “It is said, and that’s why we put it as condor”.
We said it’s all right, we’ll have condor, because condor is very much respected. There is no condor available there, nobody sees them there, nobody knows much about it, but why they talk about condor is because their Indians say that Vishnu came on a condor to their country; now, where is Colombia, where is India.
If you see the patterns of their ornaments is absolutely what we do in India, is to use the wire on top of the gold.
I don’t know if you have seen their gold, gold ornaments, they had taken an exhibition round. But all of that, all Indian patterns, they said “the Indians came down to teach us”.
Oh, I don’t know how Indians went in those days to teach them. It’s most surprising how they had a rapport in those days. And they lost the links.
Like in, say, from Iceland I met a lady. And I just asked her, “What do you say for sugar in your language?”.
And she said that it’s called as sharkara. Now, sharkara is the pure Sanskrit word for sugar. Pure Sanskrit word. Now then we discovered that the Sanskrit must have started somewhere near Norway, because it is said that it started at the place where that Rohini Nakshatra – is one of the constellations – is at right angle.
Now that’s the place where it is at right angle, is Norway’s the place where it is at right angle. So maybe that the pre-Latin language got purified into Sanskrit – there was a big rapport in this time – and one became the Latin and another became the Sanskrit. And there are so many common words and common concepts that it’s remarkable how we have lost contacts and how we are separated now, even as nations.
I went to Australia and I was surprised the language that they use has mostly Sanskrit words. Like the river on which we were, on the bank of which we were living, was called as Parramatta, means the Primordial Mother. I was surprised how this name was given to that river, Parramatta.
Ask any Indian, he will know about it. And it’s something that we had an all-pervading knowledge of this, even in England, and must be in America also, I should find out some places where I’ll be able to locate these things.
Especially the old Indians who lived in America, I saw them in Chile and Argentina, and in Colombia. And they knew so many Sanskrit words in their ritualism and all that, I was amazed how this Sanskrit was with them, from where did it spread and how did they have this knowledge of Kundalini.
But this knowledge was a secret knowledge for many years. Thousands of years.
There, there was a poet called as Markandeya, who lived I think they say about ten thousand years back. He has described about the Kundalini. But he has just described that She resides here, and She is awakened, and She passes those chakras and all that; but not in details and not very clearly: in a very mystic language.
Now what happened in the beginning when people started their civilization, say in India, they first were faced with the nature.
Though in India nature is very kind, you can live under a tree or you can live under any shade that you can get, even in a cave; and you can be quite happy, and you can eat some fruits, and the climate is so good, it’s not so cold and so hot and all that; so one can live very happily.
And they had solved their problems like this, some people; and they were living in the forest and they started thinking about their own existence, why are we here. And when they started thinking about it, they meditated. And in meditation they discovered lots of things.
And the thing they discovered that we have within ourselves a residual power called as Kundalini. And this residual power is the power which is not manifested, which is sleeping, which has created the whole of the universe that we are and yet not manifested, because it has to manifest giving you your Self-realization. This is the power of desire within us, the desire to become one with the Spirit. And that’s how they believed that there is this power that existed in all human beings and that it should be awakened.
Today I’m trying to give you the little history of this, because one by one we’ll be going to the whole thing.
Now there is another group of people, who just felt that “first of all we must try to master the elements”. And from these seers, they got information “to do that, you must use the fire element, worship the fire element”. And they started worshipping the fire element and started doing the homa and havanas, and the Vedas were written, for exciting the fire element and other elements, all the five elements.
So all the Vedas were written how to master these elements by pleasing the Deities that rule us.
Even in Greece they believed that everything has a deity, like they called the Varun, we call it as the Neptune, the one who is the Lord of the sea. He is called as Poseidon, they call it Poseidon to that special Deity like that. And they believed in it that that is so.
The trouble is that that time they did not start rationalizing or sort of deducting it on this: they believed in their seers, and whatever their seers told them they believed it and they started working on that; and they wanted to excite these elements.
The result of that is today’s modern science. The modern science that we have got is because we have been able to master these five elements.
Now these five elements also that we have mastered, in our own freedom we might have created lots of problems for ourselves, for example we have created an atom bomb.
One can say that by mastering this, what we have done is to create an atom bomb, and a neutron bomb and this bomb and that bomb. But also for your good: because once you have created it, it’s sitting like a devil there.
Now you are all frightened of it, and “no more wars”. Because if any more wars start, you are all going to be finished like that.
So even this devil that you have created is frightening you from there, and grinning at you: “Alright, you have created me, now you’d better behave yourself”.
All such enterprises move in one linear direction, and they recoil back.
Anything you try. Now you try to create plastic, now plastic is sitting on your head.
You don’t know what to do with your plastics. You do anything like that, it comes back on you and it challenges you.
For example now we can say that when we have got everything around, I mean, in New York, you see, you have got cars, you’ve got… you can move about, you have got food, you have got affluence, as it is you are affluent people.
But people are running away from affluence, they have taken to counter-cultures, they’re fed up with this, all these plastics, nylons, finished with it, and now they are seeking something else, they are taking drugs and running away, they don’t want to carry the junks of their parents.
They’re different type of people that are born. The same thing for which they were striving so much has now bothered them so much that they are trying to run away from it. So the reaction is built in on all these endeavours that we do with the elements, because elements cannot give you joy.
No matter can give us joy.
We think it can. For example if you want to build a house, “Alright, I must build a house, I must have mortgage, I must have this, that”, and you build the house. Still you are sitting miserable as if there is mourning on. What’s the matter?
“Now I must have a car!”. Alright, you have a car. You have a car, you have a house and everything, and then you want to wear torn clothes. Why?
“Because now I belong to counter-culture”.
Why did you strive so much to have a house and a car and all that pomp and show and style, and now you are going for a counter-culture? Because you are not satisfied with it.
And basically economics says this very clearly, that one want is satiable, and in general – in general – it is not satiable.
The wants are not satiable in general: you want to have one thing, then you want to have another thing, want to have another thing. And then you get so fed up with these monkey tricks that you want to give up.
You don’t want to be monkeys anymore, had enough of it.
Like in England when I went, most of the people who came to Me, I asked them: “What are you doing?”. “Mother, I’m successfully unemployed” (Shri Mataji laughs, laughter)
There’s a big cry against unemployment, Mrs. Thatcher is so much worried, that you see people are unemployed, but they are successfully unemployed! (Laughter)
They want to be unemployed!
That perhaps she does not know, that they don’t want to work, had enough of it, this madness, we don’t want anything.
So they started running across, finding out, and the time has come now for many seekers to be born, now seekers who are beyond the seeking of material life, they are fed up, they want to seek something.
At this juncture, the market started sending the news to people that “ah, this is the place where you can make money”.
So the thing got flooded, specially your America, with all the great thugs of the world to come down here and settle down nicely exploiting you. That’s what it is.
So the history of these people works out this way that now they are here, and we do not know what to do with ourselves and with them. But one should know that the nature has made us a human being. He has created us from amoeba to this stage for some purpose.
And if God has created this creation with such care and asked with [? Unclear] some creation, there must be some purpose.
He’s not going to allow His creation to be destroyed. These days in France if you find anybody sitting on the street they are discussing that there is going to be a catastrophe; in ’82, they say. And then if everything is going to be destroyed, so why worry? Better drink before that as much as you can. So they’re sitting on the streets with the bottles in their hands till they get absolutely drunk; they said “After all we are going to be destroyed in any case, so waiting for that”. And they are discus…- (She corrects Herself) – they are just worried about that.
So they told Me that in New York they are discussing only two things. I said: “What, which two things are discussing?” “One is the dollar” – in American way “dallar” you can say – “and the another is the miseries and the sufferings”. I said: “Really?”. That’s the only things are these, talking about, is one is the dollar and the subsequent suffering one has to go through (laughs). It’s most surprising how we reach a point of the proper conclusion of everything but still we do not hit the right point. We reach a right conclusion, understanding that matter is not the thing that is going to give us joy, we have to go beyond, there’s something beyond we have to achieve.
Whether you are a communist, or whether you are a capitalist, or anything, everybody knows that this is not satisfying. I’ve been to Russia Myself and the Russians I met they said: “But there must be something beyond this, isn’t it, is not everything”. Everyone of them said so, everyone of them. So, same here; and that, when it comes to that point, then only a mass evolution has to take place. And many people have to get realization, no doubt about it.
So on the right hand side they tried to discover all the elements and all that, and they put that.
First the desire came into people that “we should do something about it”.
And when they found that this one (right side, ndt) is, feels little funny to work it out all the time running after matter, so they took to another style of emotional, that is devotion.
Is to surrender yourself. Surrender anything to anything, like anybody comes in and says: “Now this is what I am,” alright: surrender.
Surrender your brain, surrender your understanding, surrender your logic, surrender your wisdom, everything to that and just you’ll be alright.
And that’s how then we found that all these incarnations who came on this Earth – a great incarnation like Christ, great incarnation like Mohammed, great incarnation like so many other people who came in India like Rama, Krishna, and all these, they made a nice pickle out of them. They started big, huge organizations, then big huge places, and… Though they were every time challenged, like I would say that papal authority was challenged by Martin Luther, who was a realized soul, all the people who followed Martin Luther went into another extreme of licentiousness and permissiveness.
So from this end to that end, and from that end to this end.
When they came on this side they became very, very, sort of ascetic, and they said “Oh, we all should become nuns and we should lead a life of absolute celibacy”.
I don’t know where Christ has said that, I don’t think He could have said it that you become nuns, it is nonsensical. It is unnatural to be nuns and all that. And I mean, they look so horrid and so hot-tempered, I mean, they have no sweetness about them I mean, I don’t know if you have been to convents, look at the children: they just shake when they see a nun, supposed to be a sister! (Laughter)
And they just shake, and they just don’t want to look at them! And these are the people in charge of God? And “going to marry Christ”, of all the things that’s the worst thing that you can do, is to say that you are going to marry Christ. It’s something I don’t know from where it came into their heads that they are marrying Christ. What right have they got to marry Christ? How are they connected with Him; I just don’t understand. But all sorts of nonsense, this is the greatest nonsense that they established on this Earth. And they started huge big nunneries and huge big what you call these churches and all that.
The worst thing they did was to in the church to put all the dead bodies. I don’t know from where did they get this idea also, I just don’t understand.
In the Bible, where is it written that you build all your churches on the dead people, walk on top of them, bring all your children to those cemeteries? But all sorts of nonsense they did, in Christianity, worse and worst in Hunduism. I need not tell you about Hindus, the amount of nonsense they have done.
The person like Adi Shankaracharya who came in the sixth century, in the sixth century, he’s talked of nothing else but what I’m telling you.
If you read his book – any book, I don’t know if they are translated; if they are translated – nothing else but what I’m telling you, that you have to become the Spirit; that you have to get realization.
Once you get realization you get over all your jati. Jati means your aptitudes.
All this caste system were based on the aptitudes of a person, not on the pre-natal system that you are born to a Brahmin you are a Brahmin; you could be a shudra born to a Brahmin.
Is an aptitude, a one who is a seeker is a Brahmin. The one who know… wants to know about the Brahma, wants to know about God is a Brahmin. Is an aptitude. It’s really an aptitude, because if it was not so…
Gita was written by Vyasa.
Vyasa he was a great sage and he wrote Gita. And do you know his… I must tell you about his birth. He was born to a lady, illegitimate child, who was just a fisherwoman. And who married another man later on. This was Vyasa who wrote Gita, and how can you say – in Gita it is written, can you imagine, that your caste, your aptitude, is determined by your birth?
Can you believe it? The one who is a illegitimate child, will he write like this?
Luckily he was illegitimate, so today we can say that it is nonsense you have put in there. And this is all such things have been done to all the scriptures. All the scriptures they have tried to spoil, for their own purpose.
Now, like Mohammed: Mohammed, you can’t imagine how He lived. His life was misery. And people tortured Him, these mad people there, I don’t know why did He take His birth there. It would have been better if He had taken birth in India, people would have respected Him. He did later on. But the way they tortured Him these nomadic people, they had no idea of God, nothing, He wanted them to know about God. He went there, they poisoned Him, they tortured Him, they never listened to Him. And ultimately when He died, then they said that He said that “I’m the last Prophet”.
He might have said it also, might have said, doesn’t matter; but He saw the way they were behaving and He again He incarnated. He has to, any sensible man would be…
You see, a Mother may say “This is the last time I’m coming to you”. Last time I did say to Americans, “This is the last time I’m coming to you”. But I had to come back, what to do? They had no sense at that time, I said, “Alright, this is the last time, I’m not coming to you”.
But after nine years I just couldn’t help it, I said: “Alright, I must go back”.
Now you would say, “You are the other Mother, this cannot be the same She had said that She will not come back”. Really, I did say. But that doesn’t mean that I will not come back. In compassion and love I have to come back. Because all My children are here, lost, what am I to do? I have to come back. And that’s exactly what happened about Mohammed.
And now Mr. Khomeini thinks that he is the topmost man in the kingdom of God, I mean, he’s just next to God.
God knows why he doesn’t say he’s also Bhagavan. He could say that he is Bhagavan.
I mean, the way he is behaving you can see now clearly how fanaticism can be dangerous.
And this is what has happened in the human awareness also that people accepted whatever was told to them.
All these great incarnations are fruits or the flowers of the same living tree. But you take out the flowers from the tree and say “This is mine, this is mine”, fight [a warry (maybe from “war”?)], they become ugly and die and then you say that: “Oh, this is the religion I follow, I believe”. Now, what is that “I” in you that believes? We should challenge ourselves.
Now, which one is this I, Mister I, within me that believes? Everybody says, even politicians, “I believe”. Now, who is this I? This I is Mister E-G-O, is not your Spirit. You are not your Spirit. When you say “I believe” it is your Spirit, then it is an absolute, is the truth.
All those who are realized souls, believe in one thing. Because they become, all of them, collectively conscious and they feel one truth.
For example if you have ten children, and they are realized souls, you ask them to put hands towards one person, and say: “Now, where is wrong with this person?”. They will all show the same finger [She raises finger of left Vishuddhi].
Same finger they will show, “It is here”. Even the child, may be a six-month old, he’ll put his finger in the mouth.
So Mr. Freud said this is sex, now what to do with this half-baked fellow who doesn’t know anything, this Freud? Who has taken you over completely, I don’t know how you got into his mess!
In all kinds of messes you have been into, and all sorts of cobwebs there have been.
So now the best is first get over your ego, that’s the main part one has to play, and you have to become your Spirit.
Now, to become your Spirit, you are beautifully made.
There is the Kundalini, there is the Spirit in your heart. Though the seat of the Spirit is here (touches top of the head, ndt), but it resides in human beings in the heart.
Now, when the Kundalini rises, She passes through these centers, and opens the Sahasrara.
When this was going on, and the other side – the one where we were trying to sort of master the elements and on the other side we were having these devotions and surrenderings and all that – the third side, which is very important, which is the evolutionary side, was also worked out. The third side is the evolutionary side. And the third side was working out where people were working on this Kundalini, and were using it for giving realization to others.
Now as it is you know, people are doing Hatha yoga very much in America. That’s also another jumble. Because Hatha yoga was practiced thousands of years back in India by Patanjali. Patanjali wrote about Hatha yoga. When we had four type of ashramas, or four periods of our lives, in which the beginning of our lives was a brahmacharya, when you had to lead a celibate life, live with a realized guru, there was a university which you had to join, and this university was called as gotra. Now for example my gotra is Shandiliya. Now this was thousands of years back, My fore-fore-fore-forefathers must have studied with Shandilya Muni and even today I am Go…Shandiliya.
Now, I cannot marry anybody in Shandiliya Gotra. Even today. So can you imagine what was the celibacy.
You were not only brothers and sisters, but the descendants of that even today cannot marry.
This was the condition of the university, that in a university, when the boys went after five years of age, and the girls, they lived there till the age of twenty-five years, and they led a life of brothers and sisters like a family, in complete celibacy.
At that time Patanjali shastra was useful (not completely audible – ed). Are these the circumstances today? It is meant for people who are not at all exposed to sex, to begin with.
Secondly, it has got ashtangas, there are eight parts. Not one, eight parts. Out of that is Yama Niyama, is one of them.
Out of Yama, one third is the exercise, one third. So I don’t know, you calculate how much part it is. And that -enth part of this thing has become now Hatha yoga.
Now you start doing that exercise because for you Marylin Monroe is your heroine, or maybe Mrs Kennedy, I don’t know who she is, some sort of a person; so you must develop your legs like this, and hands like this, and all the men are trying to reduce their waistline and doing all kinds of nonsensical things. I mean, this physical body should not be that important; on the contrary one should try to keep it clean.
Cleansing of the body is much more important; cleansing in the way that you don’t do anything wrong, with your hands. You mother people and here you are trying to reduce: what’s the use? There is no hole to enter into the God’s kingdom where you have to have certain amount of these caricatures which can pass through.
What you have to have is a holy hand, holy feet, holy eyes, holy appearances.
It has to be holiness.
Nobody pays attention to holiness.
They all pay attention to this physical appearances. By this they have lost a lot.
And that’s how what happens you move too much on the right hand side, looking after your physical being which is only up to this part (right side, ndt), and what you neglect is your Spirit.
So, all such people get heart attacks. Before getting heart attacks, they get emotionally drained out.
They mostly have divorces, they see somebody, you see, they are like, we can say like fireballs; you don’t touch them. Don’t go near them, even if you talk to them they may come on you like dogs, and just start howling at you, you’ll not know how to do it, they’ll bark at you, you don’t know why, why they did it; just because they are like that. They are so hot-tempered, so ego-oriented, and they think no end of themselves.
And such people exist here (right side, ndt), and so-called Hatha Yoga. There is no Yoga at all, on the contrary you run away from your Spirit. You run away from your Spirit, only you develop your ego there.
Now, here as you see clearly, there are two lines shown. One is the left side, and the right side. Now this left line climbs and creates that blue thing there.
Now what is this left line is the power of desire within us.
This power of desire manifests outside the left sympathetic nervous system on the gross, but we are showing here the subtler side of our gross.
Now on the right side you have this another power which shows yellow of the bile color, is the power of action.
So we act by our physical being and our mental being. So is the physical and the mental, but you see English language is little funny, because when you say a mental patient, it means that something wrong on the left side.
So what I mean is that the people who work out with planning, and with rationality, and all that, they use this part. And the people who use this part are the people who are doing physical labor, or physical attention, or Hatha yogi, and all those people who have thinned down, be on redumption [may that mean “on reduction?”] – all such people are on this side.
On the other side, on the left hand side, is the power of desire. Here the people who are emotional, like who go on singing praises of Shri Rama and Shri Krishna on the street, up our Oxford Street, you see, with a thing hanging down, and singing songs and shouting and spoiling their Vishuddhi chakra and getting cancer in the throat. They are on the left hand side.
Or the women who are extremely romantic, are emotional and always crying and weeping and troubling others, and this type of people are on the left hand side.
Now this side, the left hand side – this side- is the subconscious, and beyond this is the collective subconscious. And this side, is the right hand side, is our supra-conscious and beyond it is collective supraconscious. Now this is in Sanskrit is called Adi Dhaiwik (right side, ndt) and this is called as Adi Bhautik (left side, ndt). All these things are there but nobody has told you. Now, when you go to these fake gurus, what they do is to push you on the left or to the right. Simple thing they do is to push you to the left or to the right. They can only do that, they cannot bring you up there, because here is the super-consciousness.
They cannot awaken your Kundalini, they cannot raise it, so they either push you on to the left or to the right.
Now beyond a certain area, the whole of the collective consciousness …[Shri Mataji corrects Herself]… collective subconsciousness – the whole, means from the creation. Now I was surprised that doctors have found out – thank God – that the cancer is caused by some proteins, called 58 Protein, 58 and 56 – they have even photographed it – who come into the system and trigger the cancer and they come from the area which was built within us since the time of our creation, but they don’t know what it is.
I mean, I have told about this ten years back that the cancer is caused by the left side movement. Now if these gurus put you onto the left hand side, what happens? You get possessed by those proteins, we call them bhoots, are the dead spirits.
You just get possessed, that’s all. You just get possessed, you see, that’s why you see if a false guru is there, there are fifty thousand people just mad, going like this, foolish, stupid people, don’t understand anything what they are doing, or what they have to achieve, if they know, or there is nothing like finding out anything, no discrimination, like silly useless lunatics they move.
And they think: “Oh, we’ve got the knowledge”. Now, what knowledge have you got? If you ask them, “What’s the knowledge? Can you say what’s wrong with this gentleman? Can you say what’s wrong with you? You know where are you, where is your Kundalini?”.
“Oh, we don’t believe in anything, we just believe in our guru”. Now what do you believe in guru, he’s going to go to hell direct, and you are going to follow him, that’s what it is. They are becoming mad, absolutely mad people, recluses.
There is one group of people who paid three thousand pound for flying in the air. Alright? Three thousand pound, to fly in the air, I mean, I, yesterday I said that put your guru on the Leaning Tower of Pisa, it was built for that only; and throw him down, and see if he can fly (Shri Mataji laughs). If he can fly then alright, you can pay three thousand pounds to him.
And then ultimately they end up as recluses. So much so that if you show them a garlic, a little bagged up garlic, they are frightened. Can you imagine, you get frightened of the vegetables? (Laughter)
I mean, not even of animals but of vegetables, and you think you are achieving a flying trick! Such stupidity exists, that they go on falling into it and falling into it.
And you are saints! You are chosen ones! You are great people, you have to achieve your Self. You don’t understand, you have no self-esteem, that you give away to these horrible people who are nothing but devils!
You can see it so clearly writ large on their faces. They are not going to talk against them. Many people tell Me, “Mother, why do You criticize them?”. I said: “I will hundred times criticize them”. Let them come and face Me. None of them have put, filed a suit against Me, I’ve talked about them with names, nobody has filed a suit against Me, they dare not. Because I’ll expose them very nicely. And these people have not only ruined your Kundalini, all chances of your realization, but they have made you mad! So many people are epileptic. So many people are going to lunatic asylum. They are getting mad. And these people are supposed to be in charge of your spiritual evolution?!
One must understand that when you become something higher, you’ll have a higher level-headedness.
You have to be master of yourself. Like if somebody starts jumping on the seat that means he’s not in his own control, I mean, somebody is making him jump.
You should be able to guide the whole thing, like I would say in a car we have a brake and an accelerator. Two powers. So this is the brake and this is the accelerator, you are trying to use it, you are balancing it. You are balancing it, you are trying to learn.
Now you go to the left and right and you do all kinds of mistakes, alright. Then you learn it, you become a driver.
Once you become the driver, the master who is sitting behind you, gives you the seat of a master. You become the master.
And that’s what one should do, is to become the master. But supposing you are sitting in the car and your car takes you wherever it feels like; then are you the master of the car, or the car is master of you?
These people are so authoritarian, they put authority on you, they make you feel that you are nothing. Now you ask them: “What is your authority?”. But how can you ask, because they have taken away your authority.
In Sahaja Yoga you become your authority. You become your absolute, you become your Spirit. And then you judge others. And this is what it is, that you have to become masters yourself.
I mean, these people are not equal to the dust of your feet. This is what it is. In the eyes of God. They take money from you and live on that – parasites, of the worst type, are these Lamas! They were parasites of these Tibetan people, poor people; they used to get money from them and live in Lhasa very nicely. Very “great” people, and having now in what, Gobi desert that Skambhala or Shambhala nonsense of that; let them all go to Gobi! (Laughter) Let them live there, that is the place meant for such people.
They have taken money from the poor people, exploited them, and here like parasites living on them. What work are they doing? They are doing no work, and they are the people who can show you how parasites are.
Now supposing if I tell you that you come and live with Me free of cost: will you accept? Anyone of you?
They take money from you – there’s another fellow who has got fifty-eight Rolls Royces, one who has fifty-nine Rolls Royces. And you don’t understand! That you cannot give metal and get the Spirit. You have to achieve your own Spirit. It has to happen to you. You have to become the Spirit. And the third force [central channel, ndt] is your evolutionary force. Is the evolutionary force within us which is the sustaining force, by which we are sustained.
Like carbon has four valences. Carbon is here [She shows Mooladhara on chart, ndt]. At this time the carbon was created with four valences, you see here. It’s a tetravalent. But in the gross it is carbon, but in the subtle it is innocence.
In the subtle it is the innocence. Matter is innocent; if you hit it, it will hit you back. If you don’t hit it, it will not hit you.
So the innocence, the embodiment of innocence, is here.
And this chakra is the embodiment of innocence, and the Deity of that is called as Shri Ganesh, who incarnated later on as the Embodiment of innocence, was Christ our Lord, at that center where is the Agya chakra.
Now imagine, the One who is the embodiment of innocence, these horrible nuns are trying to marry Him! Will an innocent man marry? He doesn’t know marriage, He doesn’t know sex, He’s beyond these things! He’s not a human being, He is Omkara! He’s Pranava! He is the Divine power. How can He marry these women? These women, with their baser things, they want to sublimate it and say that “We want to marry Him”.
If they want to marry they should marry human beings, they cannot marry God! And that is what He is, Christ. And the Christ’s Advent is very important in the history of our evolution.
If I talk about Christ to Indians they say “You are trying to make us Christians”. If I talk to you about Shri Krishna you will say I am trying to make you Hindus. It’s a very funny world, I must say.
Christ has said: “Those who are not against Me, are with Me”. Who are those? You didn’t allow Him to speak!
Hardly you allowed Him to live for three years and you crucified Him! He rode the donkeys and I think all these donkeys have become now Christians. That was the symbol – that they crucified Him; and today again they are crucifying Him by not accepting that they must have their Spirit. They are to be born again.
Now, they are to be born again means what? You certify “I am born again”?
I mean, how can you certify yourself “I’m born again”? Is artificial! Like this, we have made a mess of all of these great Incarnations.
Still Christ has said: “Everything can be forgiven”. And it’s true. Everything can be forgiven, all your sins can be forgiven, everything can be forgiven, but become the Spirit.
If you don’t become the Spirit, then the dead will go to dead. Spirit is the only living thing, and Spirit is the only thing you should achieve, and that you should become, the rest of it is all mithya, is all falsehood, is all fake.
Spirit emits the Brahma, the power, the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost as they call it. That is the Spirit within you that emits, and that’s what you should achieve – which organizes, which thinks, which acts, which works out everything that has to be done, and also with love. The whole thing put together is nothing but love. But love that only emits, which doesn’t receive anything. It doesn’t receive anything, I mean, if you want to hit Me also I’ll not receive it. I will not receive anything whatsoever you want to do to Me, that’s what it is.
And that should happen to all of you, that you should not become anymore recipient of all these nonsensical things, but just manifesting your love to others.
That should happen to every seeker.
And once that happens, you reach that state which I described yesterday as Nirvikalpa Samadhi. That Samadhi must come, that awareness, enlightened awareness you must have, you must achieve that.
In Sahaja Yoga one has to understand that it is your own progress which is important, and the progress of the whole that is important. It’s not only your own progress, but the whole, the collectivity – specially, as he has said, that at Vishuddhi chakra, here is the point of our evolution where we raised our head.
Yesterday I told you that when we raised our head from animal kingdom we took up the responsibility upon ourselves, and that chakra is nothing else but your great country, America.
You have been talking big, no doubt, you think you are going to solve the problem of the whole world, everywhere you go and meddle with. Like Vietnam, here, there, and that. And then you receive the bad things, you’ve done a mistake. If you had achieved your Spirit, then you don’t have to go anywhere, sitting here you can solve the problems. The All-pervading power with which you are connected – you’ll be amazed – works out instantaneously. Sitting down here you can work it out. Only one thing it cannot do: there it is helpless. And that’s a point I come before you with a folded hands.
That is you have got your freedom to choose. If you are egoistical, if you are superego means you are possessed, you will not choose it. So with your own freedom, with your free will, you have to choose it. And if you have chosen it with your free will, it can happen to you, otherwise it will not. Because your freedom has to be respected, you have to enter into the kingdom of God, you have to become absolutely free citizens of that great freedom [May Shri Mataji mean “kingdom”?]. And if your freedom is not respected you cannot enter in.
So first thing your freedom has to be respected, if you don’t want it you cannot get it.
I cannot force on you, nobody can force it on you, nobody would like to do it. It is you you have to ask for it.
That’s why He said: “Seek”. Christ has said: “You have to seek”. If you seek, if you ask for it, you’ll get it. You have to knock. If you do not knock, the door won’t open. Door should open for us, everybody thinks “While sitting down here we should get it” – no. You have to ask for it. Then only you can enter into the kingdom of God.
Imagine a person who is a slave: will you make him the king? We have to free from our ego and from our superego, that’s why Christ is sitting down there at that point, where you enter into the kingdom of God which is the limbic area, on top there.
When you awaken Christ, He sucks your ego and superego, all your karmas and your ego, all your conditionings and all your ambitions.
Everything sucked in – by sucking that only you get this portion opened out which is called as the fontanel bone area and you get the cool breeze coming out, and many people have felt it yesterday.
This is what it was said, that Christ should be awakened within us, He should be born within us, by which He sucks in.
I wish Christians had carried this message properly to Indians. They did not.
They gave such a funny idea about Christ that they put a loaf, imagine, loaf in the well and said, “This is the meat of a cow”. And they can’t eat the cow’s meat, so you all have become Christians.
Like that villages after villages became Christians, imagine what a message of Christ they gave to people.
If they had told about this, then people would have known that the One who is promised as Mahavishnu, who is going to come on this earth to take away all our karmas and all that, people would have taken to another course. But it never came. So still they are, poor things, are plodding with their karmas, and here the gurus are coming and telling you that you have to get over your karmas. Imagine.
Now what are these gurus paid for, then? If you have to do… Anything happens, they say: “It is your karmas!”.
Then why are you paid for? You are taking all our money, everything from here, and having big huge places for yourself, and where we are suffering here under pressures and all kinds of things. And you are telling us that this is because of “your karmas”. If it is so, what is the need you to be there?
So this is what one has to understand, the general history of these three things I told you: one is the power of desire, we call it as the Mahakali power. Maha-Kali power.
This is the another power, is the power of action which is Kriya shakti – actually this is called as Iccha Shakti and Kriya Shakti – but in our language, in Sahaja Yoga language, called as Mahakali – this is called as Mahasaraswati.
And this as Mahalakshmi.
Mahalakshmi is the power of evolution. And Christ’s Mother was the Incarnation of Mahalakshmi power.
And how, and why, that I will tell you later on, when I’ll come to this by chakras and chakras.
I hope they have been able to follow My lecture and I’ve been able to explain, but if there is no explanation, and if you want to know about something, you can ask Me.
May God bless you.
[A lady asks an inaudible question and mentions about Freud]
Shri Mataji: I know. Where’s this Freud, you see, your great Mr. Freud. Must be another devil, I must say, to put this idea. He didn’t know anything, he had no business to talk about it, he was most unauthorized person. What did he know? He didn’t know anything, you read his book and… Find Jung thousand time better. Jung something knew about it, you see, he got his realization also.
This fellow, Freud, he died of cancer.
When you see his dying of cancer at least don’t follow him. But you all have become Freudians. In London there are only 12 Jungians. You see? And all of them are Jews, so they don’t believe in Christ. So how can you talk to them? Jews don’t believe in Christ. Why? And that’s why they wanted to suffer. Alright, so you had suffering, had it. Now will you believe in Christ or not? They want to suffer, alright, have it. They asked for it. For eleven years this thing was growing up, this racialism in Germany, if you read the history of Germany, it’s most surprising.
And these Germans used to kill the Jews, do this – “Oh, we have to suffer”, among themselves they used to say. If somebody’s killed they would never protest, for eleven years. Then, then Hitler came into power, afterwards. And then he started doing all these things, for eleven years they were trying to suffer. Now they had a real, right, “royal” suffering. That’s what they had. Still if you meet a Jew he’ll still say “I don’t believe in Christ”. Who are you not to believe in him?
Warren: Many children suck their thumbs now…
Shri Mataji: Ah, that, this thumb (left thumb, ndt) they suck because you are catching on the left Swadhisthana. If you go to some horrible guru, they will start – poor things – sucking this thumb.
Means left Swadhisthana. You are going to some unauthorized person, the child may be a realized soul, and he’ll start sucking his thumb.
We give so much trouble to our children, we have no idea. And now so many realized souls are going to be born. There are, so many, and to our sahaja yogis… now Gavin has a daughter, her name is… [yogi: “Olympia”]… Olympia, because I went to Olympics before that, you see. And so when I came back I gave her the name Olympia. And if you see her, she’s a tremendous child. Tremendous child. If she was here, she would not allow Me to speak, I have to take her in My lap and speak to you. Have you got a photograph? The green? Eh? Alright. My purse is not there…
So many children are born. There’s another one – when I went to Greece there was another child was born, Athena. And so many; there’s another one who is called as Dattatreya. We have so many now in England, born realized. And they know. They get after people, you see, they work. We have lots of people, about ten or twelve children sitting down and lots of people, and they help Me, they are around Me and they tell Me: “Here it is”. They go on hitting, and they start improving the chakras and giving bandhans, and all that, and they work it out so well, they know so much.
My own grandchildren, four of them, are first class realized souls. First class. Absolutely top class people. Some very great souls. Very great souls, and they are so simple, and they understand things so well.
Like the younger one, she’s the youngest was about three years of age, and she was going to some nursery school, and she brought a paper – imagine, in a little children’s school, they sent a paper – saying that there’s a course on for youth, for your transformation. So she brought the thing and she said: “What is written in this thing?”. I said: “You can change if you join this course for hundred rupees, you have to go to a hotel”. So this little one says: “How can that be possible? By paying hundred rupees you cannot just do it! The Kundalini must be awakened, otherwise how can you? Kundalini doesn’t understand money!”.
The little one says, three-year-old. The elder one says: “But by doing a course, if you can do it, my father has done fourteen courses, his Kundalini’s not yet risen”.
Just see, how simple it is for them to see. But you cannot see. Is your ego, you have over-developed ego, you think you can study. You mean to say people who are not educated are not going to get realization?
Is a living, living thing. Do we study for our breathing? Imagine we have to go to library to understand how to breathe: what will happen to all of us?
We’ll never reach the library! (Laughter, She laughs) Yes?
Seeker: Mother, I think, you know, yesterday something very – I can’t understand, but was very nice, very good happened, and I would like to do it – what to do? I didn’t come today to the workshop, but how can I find out?
Shri Mataji (Laughs) I mean, if you don’t come to the workshop [Seeker: I will come], what should I do?
Seeker: Can I try again? I’m coming here…
Shri Mataji (laughs): Now, I would say. Put your willpower. What I’m saying, put your willpower. I’m here only for five days, not more than that; now only four days.
Now, make best use of Me, what else can I say? Alright? I am staying in that hotel because of you, alright, that you could come and see Me in the morning time.
Those who came, ask Herman (?): how much he was helped, how much he learnt. How will you learn unless and until you come to Me? Alright? You must come; put little willpower. You see, supposing I had taken hundred dollars from you: you would have come. Definitely, I know American temperament. (Laughter). You see, I asked them why they do it. You see they said it’s like this: you buy a ticket for a picture, or say for a play, alright? And the play is horrible, but you say ‘we paid, so let us sit down’.
You paid for it, you see, everything is paid for, is paid for: that’s why. But you cannot pay Me and you cannot buy Me.
But you must tell yourself, that “If I am a realized soul, I should know all about it”. Alright? Put in your willpower. Put in your willpower. Because I cannot mesmerize you and I cannot force you.
Here all those who came to Me this morning were very much helped, and you are much better now. Ask anyone of them, how much happier they are.
Some people who had a very bad back and all that, I cured them, and somebody had a pain here (touches neck, ndt), I cured him; everybody was helped, no doubt. Everybody was helped very much.
Those who didn’t come would be lagging in their progress, definitely, no doubt about it.
A seeker says something.
Warren: Yes. We’ll make an announcement at the end of the program precisely where you should come.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes of course. I’m sticking onto that place. I’m not getting out at all. Actually they lock Me in. (Laughter)
And they keep somebody to watch Me, I may disappear you see, in the thin air, so I’m just there for you, waiting for you. I’ve come all the way for you only, isn’t it. What have I got to do in this New York the great? Yes?
Seeker asks question.
Warren repeats it to Shri Mataji: “He’s saying that “I said I had problems with my chakras, other people who have trouble with can you help them?”
Shri Mataji: Of course; you can also help yourself, and I can help you also, and you will know everything about it; everything you will know.
You see, if I know what’s there? If I have all the powers what’s there? Why should you believe in Me? You should have your own powers. This is simple. Alright? Any other questions? They are very positive people, I must say.
[Seeker asks a question about people doing pranayama to raise Kundalini]
Shri Mataji: You cannot do it by effort.
It’s not, is not correct. On the contrary pranayama gives you sinus problems.
And so many other problems. Then this Hamsa Chakra gets caught with the pranayama. This is a very bad chakra which once caught it’s very difficult to correct.
Seeker asks question about meditation; “How about meditation? Do you feel it’s good to meditate?”
Shri Mataji: You cannot “do” meditation, you have to be in meditation.
Once it happens, you are there, you are in thoughtless awareness, you are watching everything like a witness. The whole thing looks like a drama.
Seeker continues: It seems to come and go, sometimes meditation comes and then it’s not there, and it varies (unclear)…
Shri Mataji: It cannot be; if you know everything about Kundalini and if your Kundalini is really done, then it does its workout – in the beginning you have to be carefully for a month only. For a month you have to give little intensive care; and then it’s all right. It’s like a patient coming out of intensive care. But you have to treat yourself first of all like a patient. Look after yourself, put full effort to understand everything, cure yourself, and you are all right. But put some willpower, you see.
You should have come. I asked them, what about the boy who wanted to get married? I could have got you a bride today (Laughs loud, general laughter)
Alright, but now you might miss the point! (Laughs loud).
Yes My child?
Lady seeker says that she felt very angry about the comment about the Jews.
Shri Mataji: About whom?
Lady seeker: About the Jews.
Shri Mataji: You should not be angry with Me.
Lady Seeker: No, I want to tell you what happened. I am not angry with You…
Shri Mataji: Alright.
Then lady seeker tells about her ancestors who were poor, had no money and didn’t know what was going on…)
Shri Mataji: I know, I know.
(Seeker continues with her story – “Anyway and I believed in the Christ’s Spirit, that I must believe in Jesus Christ”)
How can you treat that? Alright we’ll see, alright we’ll see.
(Seeker continues with her story – inaudible)
No, not, it’s not… it’s true, I was also a Jew once upon a time, for your information.
I was also a Jew in one of My lives. Alright? And I was sympathies with them, but they are foolish to say that they should suffer: why should they suffer?
(Lady seeker: Suffering is ridiculous)
Alright, alright. Then they say that “We don’t believe in Christ”: what right have they got to say so? They have to believe, because Christ was a Jew Himself. You know, I was born in an Indian Christian family in India. No Indian Christian believes in Me. You’ll be surprised, not a single Indian Christian. All are Muslims, Hindus, Jains, Parsis, everybody. You will believe Me or Americans, but Indian Christians don’t believe in Me. That’s what.
(Seeker: Indian Christians don’t believe in You)
(Warren: That’s what She’s talking about)
Shri Mataji: I couldn’t believe it! They are the only people who don’t believe in Me.
Male seeker: They are too close. Too close.
Shri Mataji: Eh?
Seeker: Too close.
Shri Mataji: It’s jealousy, I think. I don’t know what it is. It’s funny. But if I was, say, if I was the President of India, they would have been all very close to Me. My nearest relations would have been there. You see, because then they think materially they can have advantage.
But believing in Me for them is very difficult. Except for My own brothers and sisters, because they know Me from My childhood. And My father himself and My mother. I don’t think any Indian Christian really believes in Me. There are people who have cast My horoscope and he said: “You are tremendous I mean, just can’t believe it that this is Your horoscope” and all that, but he cannot believe in Me.
See, there’s still a barrier, because he’s an Indian Christian. Perhaps they think to be Indian Christian is very low, and how can I be something so great?
Maybe that, or they don’t believe in themselves, I don’t know what it is.
But it’s a fact. And that’s why Jews did not believe in Christ.
And even today they are trying very funny things, like there was a questionnaire, I will tell you, in London; the Jews are trying you see – they have money – so they told the Times people to put some sort of an article against Christ.
And what they said was that in the Bible it was said that a girl is going to give birth to Christ according to the Hebrew language, but not a Virgin. Now, in those days, girl meant a virgin; even today in India “kanya” means a virgin and also means a girl.
Means they didn’t have eighty-year-old girls as we have in America (laughter) in those days, you see.
And it means that. And now another logical thing one can see that if the girl was not going to give birth, then is a man going to give birth? Why did they say “girl”, if it was just a woman, why did they say particularly girl?
Such absurd things about this shroud of Christ also, they created another controversy for nothing at all, that the shroud of Christ. It is His shroud, no doubt, but when He died, He was tied with it, means from both the sides it was pulled out, so very longish face and all that, He was not that longish type of a person.
And because you see after all the color is smearing, is part of the body, it cannot be three-dimensional, so it looks very thin and sickly and pulled out stuff.
It is His shroud, no doubt, but this was the shroud that was, that covered Him when He was just taken out and was covered and put in the grave.
Now they are saying this was the shroud they used – is a proof that He was taken and smuggled into another country and He never resurrected.
This is the speciality of these Jews they are establishing now. I said, “Now, anybody who has common sense if they have to smuggle a body from one country to another, will they cover it with a shroud which has got all the bloodstains on it?”. Think of these people how they are after Christ.
They talk of Yehowa, who is an abstract God, and they are the grossest people, I can tell you, they think of money, money, money, money, five times.
They talk of the abstract – now we have many, many sahaja yogis who are Jews.
(Seeker asks to repeat) Sahaja yogis who are Jews. And they feel it. And they feel so worried, so worried – two of them had come here, now they have gone away – about their parents, and about other people, what’s going to happen to these people.
They see, because Christ exists there (She points at Her Agya, ndt), I can prove it to you on Kundalini. I’ll prove it to you on Kundalini – Kundalini won’t rise unless and until you accept Jesus Christ Himself – nobody else but Jesus Christ – I’ll prove it to you.
(Seeker says something like I accept this theory…).
Shri Mataji: No, no, this you are accepting at this level. Is not the point.
At that level you’ll accept. At that level when you’ll become the Spirit. At this level, whatever you are accepting is your own concept, because you are born as a Jew.
If you were born as a Christian, you would have been: “I’m Jesus Christ”. There are many like that, who are saying like that. There’s one gentleman who is saying “I’m Jesus Christ” now. I said, “Put him on the water”. (Laughter) Can he walk? Just let him walk, one foot up and one foot down! (Laughter).
It’s very simple, you know, to believe into anything.
Khomeini believes he is God himself.
I mean, how can you say that? There is nothing absolute about it, you have to find the absolute.
Alright? When you find your absolute, then you should say: “This is the truth”, not believe. Alright? Many Jews now have become sahaja yogis, they have become the Spirit.
(Lady seeker: I haven’t yet (?)
No, no, I’m just telling you that many Jews have become, and they are following it up and understanding.
You are nothing, you are the Spirit, I know that, I see you are the Spirit, but you have to become that.
Spirit has to come in your awareness, it has to come in your central nervous system, it exists, I see that, clearly.
(Lady seeker asks another question.)
Warren repeats to Shri Mataji: “She is asking for You to comment on child abuse, and all the dreadful things that happen and she is wondering why, if there are so many of these young children who are realized souls, why do they suffer so much”)
Shri Mataji: You see, in these countries, only the extremely highly developed people will be born, or the absolutely the most negative, the anti-Christ will be born. The mediocres are not going to take birth in this country, where the children are treated like this. They’ll be born in India. That’s why we are having population problem!
(Seeker says something – probably abuse -that happened to her when she was ten years old)
That’s why you see why we have a population problem in India: because you ill-treat your children! And the children don’t want to be born here. In England a radio fellow came and asked Me – as usual sinister, as usual – he asked me that: “What about your population problem?”.
I said, “You are responsible, I’m sorry for that”. He said, “How are we responsible?”. I said: “In England two children are killed every week, statistically; which sane child would be born in that horrible country, except for somebody who is of a very [“dervish”?] temperament, dynamic, who’ll come and put them right?”.
And these children are born to take over, let them grow. They’ll teach them all of them a lesson.
(To the lady seeker) Don’t you worry. You’ll pass through all that. You’ll overcome that.
(Seeker says something)
I know they are satanic. I know they are satanic. They are satanic people. But they’ll be put right. Don’t you worry.
These children will surpass them. They are great. They are dynamic. They are special people. Don’t you worry about them. They’ll be all looked after. They’ll get over it.
Warren: Any other questions or shall we have it now? The thing is to get it. And then the questions get answered.
Shri Mataji (talks to somebody): Now what about your “bhagavan”? Better take out from your dresses. Better take it out. This is no, no…
Warren: Take it off. It’s going to absorb vibrations and stop your Kundalini from rising.
Shri Mataji: Absolutely you’ll feel so hot in the beginning only. You’ll feel terribly hot.
Seeker: Bhagavan once was my guru, but then I left.
Shri Mataji: But you better leave him!
Seeker: … wear the beads, what about it?
Shri Mataji: Why? No, no no! Beads also, no no, nothing, nothing, anything that you might from him, throw it away in the sea! Horrible fellow he’s already finished.
Seeker: Yes? Tell me something about Bhagavan, who is he?(Laughter, Shri Mataji laughs)
Shri Mataji: Tomorrow (laughter) I’ll tell him who he is.
Seeker says something about America.
Shri Mataji: You Americans are very, very liberal people, you have asked all the anti-Christ to come and settle down here. And their vibrations are going to explode, and all earthquakes are going to come in this country if you don’t throw them away. Your media is not going to listen to Me, they don’t want to come to Me, and listen to this. This country will be destroyed, you take it from Me. You give them ranches and all that.
(Seeker says it was bought)
Shri Mataji: He bought it?
(Seeker asks about the beads)
Shri Mataji: Nothing, nothing, you give up this dirty cloth! Horrible, everything is horrible, very bad vibrations. I’ll tell you tomorrow who he is. Alright? All of them were devils, very well known to Me, long time back.
About fourteen thousand years back I knew them. One better than the other.
Seeker: He’s a devil?
He is a devil. Can’t you see? What is holiness in him? His whole ashram is gutted and all that, finished. Indians never liked him.
Lady seeker asks a question.
Shri Mataji: You can see the pulsation of the Kundalini, you can see the rising of the Kundalini, you can feel the pulsation on your fontanel bone here (She touches fontanel bone). Then when the pulsation stops, then you see the cool breeze coming out, you can feel it. You see, you should feel.
Lady seeker continues and asks if one can feel the devil or the spirit in another person.
Shri Mataji: Yes, you can also feel it. Everyone will feel it. There is no devil in you, none of you: you are all saints.
But the trouble is these devils have put some spirits in you, you are possessed. Which you have to cleanse.
That you will yourself feel.
Male seeker: My whole body here I felt very hot, my whole body was very hot.
Shri Mataji: I know.
(Seeker: And it was cool out)
That’s it, that’s it. Coming to Me you’ll feel hot even, I told you, that you better change this dress of yours next time.
Seeker: This color…
Shri Mataji: Horrible color this one is, why to announce it?
Why to announce that you are a sannyasi? If you are you are, you don’t announce it, do you?
Seeker: You don’t need to wear this colour? You should not wear this color…
Shri Mataji: Throw it away! Throw away all his books, throw away his photographs, throw away everything!
Seeker: But the color is not Bhagavan, the color is God. Isn’t it?
Shri Mataji: No, no. This color symbolizes something, na? It symbolizes someone. It’s a symbol. And that gives you, gives you bad vibrations. It does, it does.
Moreover, I am deadly against this color from the very beginning, which I’ll tell you tomorrow. Red is first class.
(Seeker: Red, not orange?)
Red one, not orange.
(Seeker: I see.)
Warren: You’ll know that the orange people, all over the world, buy that dress.
Shri Mataji: You don’t know. The other day somebody came to Me, he said: “Mother, I have to make one prayer to You”: I said, What? He said: “Please save all the orange people” I said: “Who are these orange ones?”. Then he said: “These Bhagavans”.
Bhagavan! Bhagavan can’t even smell a flower! Imagine the Bhagavan!
In the books of the Vishnu is written He is the one who is fond of flowers. The Goddess is the fond of flowers, She’s the one who is fond of lotus. She sits in the lotus, She can’t live without the flowers – I can’t exist without flowers! And this fellow is, have you ever heard any saintly person to take flowers for that person? Can’t you see that? What he wants is gutters, he can’t bear the perfumes, he must have gutters.
Dirty fellow he is. Send him to some bathroom and dump him down there. He’s already gone to his doom, don’t you worry. Horrible dirty, filthy man. Useless.
(To Warren) You must show them this film: have you got it? Oh, you must see.
(Warren: It shows all the nonsense and horrible stuff going on in the ashram)
You must see.
(Warren: The film was called: “The God who has fled”).
Shri Mataji: “The God who has fled”. (Warren: He ran away from India, and now he’s hiding somewhere near the desert…”).
Shri Mataji: And your media has even got time to come and see that! You see, what to do with these horrible media that you have here? But the best part of it they published the advertisement, somebody told Me, in the Time magazine of London, and you know Time magazine is closed permanently. Is closed. They are inauspicious people. These clothes are inauspicious. I hope I’ll be able to give realization but with these clothes I don’t know. I don’t know.
Lady seeker asks a question.
Warren repeats: “What about praying for somebody who is false?”.
Shri Mataji: You see, when you are praying, to whom are you praying? To God, alright? You should be first connected or not?
We are praying without our connection, like we are telephoning without the connection established, we spoil that telephone also.
Better first when you are connected, then even if you say it once it works out.
But you should be connected. You must enter into the kingdom of God. For example I am not an American citizen, I have no right as an American citizen, isn’t it?
You have to become the citizen of God’s kingdom, then you have every right to ask for anything, otherwise you have no right.
Unless and until you become a Spirit, you don’t have any right, whatever you may say. And if you say: “I’m that, I’m that”, people will put you in the jail. That’s what it is. You have to become. Then the prayer has meaning.
Krishna has said clearly that should be Ananya Bhakti. Ananya means when there is not the other, when you are connected; that should be the time when you can worship.
But I see the Hare Rama people, till they get their throat cancer, they are busy with that: what am I to do?
They are not called orange: they are called what? Skinheads (laughter). (Shri Mataji laughs)
And they are selling in the market that stuff, you know, which they wear here (She mimes a sort of ponytail behind the head, ndt). And they put that down, like a little hair coming out here you see.
Warren: Like a wig.
Shri Mataji: Wig. Is a special wig, Hare Rama wig. And they dance in that Oxford Circus and it’s shameful to see their, they wear those saris and dhotis and everything falls down, and they are dancing like mad, “We are mad in the love of Shri Krishna”. Imagine. What a caricature. And their guru used to look like one of our jockeys called Leslie Piggott: have you seen his face? Imagine worshipping Shri Krishna looking like that.
Actually Vishuddhi gives you a face, a special face, Vishuddhi should. But the face he had was all kinds of wrinkles all over, all over the places, just like Leslie Piggott.
He could be a good jockey but he’s died now. Is the person calling himself as “God’s devotee”. Imagine, a shame for God also to have such devotees who are TB patients.
Seeker: Are other gurus today negative like Sai Baba?
Shri Mataji: Which one, this with the hair? He is horrible, he is a big devil. (Seeker pronounces another name – sounds like Meher Baba.).
Ah, horrible. There are real gurus also, I wouldn’t say that they are all horrible.
They are in the market. The real ones are there, many are there, but they are not in the market.
One of them I asked him to come here, he stayed in New York only for two days and ran away. He wouldn’t stay here.
But they are very hard taskmasters. There are. And you will become: why are you worried about anybody else? You are going to become even better gurus than they are.
(A lady seeker asks a question).
Shri Mataji to Warren: “About what?” Warren: “Ramana Maharshi”.
Shri Mataji (smiling): He was a realized soul.
Warren: He was a realized soul.
Shri Mataji: No doubt. That’s true, but not his disciples, are horrid. No, he was a realized soul, like Christ Himself was an incarnation Himself, but His disciples, the Christians, God save us from them.
Lady seeker: What about Ramakrishna?
Shri Mataji: Not at all, he was not a realized soul. He was a seeker like you. But he, how he did everything it was too much.
I mean, what was the need to cry like this all the time like a madman, he was dancing and all that? There was no need to do all this drama, I think he was a very dramatic.
Seeker: His was more like a devotional style. Too much left.
Shri Mataji: Too much left. Nonsense. You know, God must have [been] fed up with such people.
Like My granddaughter: we had a, in the neighborhood there was a temple. And they were dancing and singing like that. So she told Me: “Grandma, you see, God must have already run away from that temple no doubt, now I’m going to run away, I’m fed up of these people”. You know, you should not pester God also like this. This is too much. And what right have you got? One thing is that, supposing if I want to meet your President, supposing, I even want to meet your President I must have a proper protocol. I just cannot go and start shouting: “Oh President, oh President”, as if he is in My pocket. In the same way this is nonsense, absolute nonsense.
You can see yourself.
Ramakrishna ashram people mostly dying of cancer, I must say. Cancer.
Cancer has taken over, I must say, I’m sorry, but at least I must have seen at least hundred cases, at least hundred cases from that, who are coming with cancer.
I mean, he’s left-sided.
And this Satya Sai Baba, this devil – the real one was there, Shirdi Sai Nath was real. But the second one, the one who is, he gives you heart attacks.
Lady seeker: May I ask You about Sri Aurobindo?
Shri Mataji: What do you think?
(Lady seeker says she was a visitor of his ashram but she got very bad vibrations).
(Shri Mataji laughs)
Warren: That’s your answer.
That French woman of his, was a drunkard. The French woman he had was a drunkard. And she used to collect nothing but diamonds. And she had such big huge diamonds. And she was going to become young after some time. God knows what happened to her now, she’s finished.
And they used to say, if you have to come to their ashram, then you must give all your assets to these “Johnnies”, Aurobindo and his mother or whatever relationship they had, all nonsense.
(Lady seeker continues by saying she felt terrible)
Shri Mataji: That’s what it is!
Warren: This means you are a seeker and you are becoming aware of the negativity.
Shri Mataji: Horrible they are. Absolutely horrible people. They make you mad.
[A seeker says that Bhagavan will make you crazy – Shri Mataji laughs aloud, laughter – he says every part of his body became in flames and he almost died. He had the pain for three years.]
Shri Mataji: I mean, this is nothing.
He has given blisters to people all over. Ask your people, (…unclear), all of you should really write to your newspapers and things and ask them, “What are you doing about this man?”. How can he buy anything? You should prohibit.
In India why doesn’t he buy anything? He can’t. He can’t. The government just put down their foot.
Lady seeker: The more realized that you become, do you become like doctors?
Shri Mataji: Of course, of course, the doctors have no place there, you save all your money from the doctors and all that. You become the doctor! You should become more healthy, you should become more wise, you should become more alert, you should become more dynamic, you should become control over everyone else. See? No more you are greedy. I mean, it’s a different thing, your priorities change completely. That’s what you deserve.
That’s what you are. That’s what you should have. You have earned it! This is your bank balance I’m telling you about. I’m here just to sign your checks. (Laughter) If you have the bank balance. That’s what you are.
Male seeker asks a question: “What is Your role in helping one realize himself?”
Shri Mataji: What is My…?
Warren repeats: “What is your role in all this, in helping one realize oneself?”.
Shri Mataji: I don’t know what is My role is. I don’t know.
Seeker continues: What do you do to make it rise, the Kundalini?
Shri Mataji: I don’t do anything either. (Warren: You’ll find out yourself after…)
No no no, I’ll tell you what. Is simple: now, will you ask the sun “what is your role”? It is the sun, it has to do it, just do it.
You better do it. What can you do, it’s your nature! It’s My nature, I mean, there’s no role as such, it’s nature. What can I do: it just happens! (Laughter, Shri Mataji smiles)
I enjoy, I enjoy. I want to share My enjoyment. You are My children, I have to give it to you. Is My love, I enjoy My love: that’s all. It’s rather difficult to understand a person like that, isn’t it? (She smiles).
But there is One: can be One like that. In all this mess there can be One like that, who just does it out of love. That’s, that’s – it’s just love and compassion. Is ocean of compassion. I can’t get over it, I’m sorry. (Laughter)
I have a very good husband, very good family, I’m a very happily married woman, everything is there, but without you I cannot enjoy life: cannot.
You all have to get it, it’s My job, it’s My mission, it’s, that’s how I’m here, that’s how I’m created. I’m just made for this.
I’m fixed for it, in American language (laughter).
Or we can say: all set for it. Alright?
There’s no role, nothing: it’s just I’m set, I have to do it.
Male seeker asks if there is a method to make the Kundalini rise.
Shri Mataji: No method, no thing.
As far as… there’s a Divine method, you see, which cannot be explained, in ordinary words – like you cannot explain how a flower becomes a fruit. Alright?
But I raise your Kundalini by My own raising.
Seeker: Beg Your pardon?
Shri Mataji: By raising My own Kundalini. I put your Kundalini on top of My Kundalini (inaudible word – looks like “raise both”). This is an immaculate, you can say, immaculate rebirth.
I put you in My heart and give you realization from My Sahasrara. Alright?
But how I do it, that I can’t tell you. But you will also do it. Once you get it, your vibrations will do it automatically.
Male seeker continues, Warren repeats: “How long does it take”?
Shri Mataji: Oh, split of a second! Just split of a second, but if you are alright. Otherwise I have to cleanse you little bit. (Seeker: You have to do what?)
Shri Mataji: I have to cleanse you a little bit. Alright?
Male seeker says: I felt very hot when I asked You that silly question… So I’m willing… here You’ll be showing… I do not know what to do…, but we’ll find out!
Shri Mataji: Ah, that’s it.
Warren: Here in America She’s going to establish a group, all of you could get together…)
Shri Mataji: No, Herman has offered his place for this thing, very sweet of him, to have offered it. No, Herman has offered his place and I’m going to sanctify it, I’m going to see the place and all that, and we’ll start our centre there.
Christine is here, she’s a very old sahaja yogini in the sense that she came to Me one of the first seven I had, for four years, she’s one of them. And she knows a lot about Sahaj Yog.
Then in Boston we’ve got Steve and you all are going to grow very fast – and we’ve got here another one Christine who is in Boston, then I don’t know about Tracy if she’s going to come down and settle down here. And also, who else? Is Marsha, but Marsha has now gone to Philadelphia and she is going back to England, then she is going to come back with her husband and settle down in Philadelphia. So you are going to have these people here to help you and give whatever guidance you need. And you yourself will start understanding it very well. Very soon. Four-five days are sufficient to equip you. So the reaction comes to you as heat, you see, if you try to be … (She laughs) Alright, I didn’t do anything, I’m just sitting here, am I doing anything? Alright, now let’s have it.
(Warren asks people to take off their shoes) Shri Mataji: Yes, please, that’s what is the simplest thing to understand. Now, can I remove this part of the thing that is hanging onto My neck? What, has it improved anything? I don’t know: did it?
(Warren: It’s for the television).
Shri Mataji: Aah! That’s the one! I don’t understand all these things. Whatever you say I will do: only thing be satisfied. Right? Good, is there, still is there, not lost.
Lady seeker says something: “I think I have it most of the time at home now”
Warren repeats: “She thinks she has it all the time”.
Shri Mataji: Good, good, keep it up. Keep it up. And then I’ll tell you everything about your theology later on, alright?
(Lady seeker apologizes that she could not come, maybe to the hotel to meet Shri Mataji, but she is going to come tomorrow).
Shri Mataji: Alright. I’ll tell you all about it. All about it. Slowly, slowly you will know everything. You see, there are many things which are true and many things which are false. And with vibrations you can verify it.
(Lady seeker says something)
Shri Mataji: Ah. Nobody (?) could be more aware of it than Me.
(Lady seeker: And some terrible things are going on in Christianity, they are destroying people.)
Shri Mataji: You don’t know how much concern I have. You have no idea.
(Lady seeker says that things that happening in Christianity are worse than… inaudible)
Shri Mataji: I mean, you can’t say that, is both ways, everywhere just the same, I’m very aware of it, I’m very aware of it.
Jesus Christ came in that fashion, and it brings such disgrace.
I’m very much concerned, very much concerned on My own level and work things out in My own way.
Lady seeker: And I was a nun for ten years, I mean, I have seen horrible things.
Warren: She was a nun for ten years, contemplative nun.
Lady: I mean, I got in such spiritual pain… I suffered, and I saw no reason that I had for that suffering, but I saw and I mean, it was awful, it was terrible.
Shri Mataji: I know, I know that. You know this Pope of yours, I went to Cracow, I went with My husband to Cracow, just before, before he became the Pope. And you see, he’s a big man, so they took Me, they said: “What are you interested in?”.
I said: “I’m interested in churches”, so they took Me to Cracow. And they had a mass, you see, this fellow came and shook My hand and I raised his Kundalini alright, and it pierced through also.
But it again went back, because he’s a Christian like that.
And I worked on him quite a lot, but you know what happened? Recently there was a photograph of Pope. And his hand came out like this (She rises right arm, ndt) and the hand is missing, this hand is missing.
(Lady seeker: “I know, I know what you are saying, I know about this”).
Shri Mataji: And that photograph was published, they don’t know how it was published. Then they have seen these points. And Rome, in Rome people are very much against him. Very much against all institutions, it’s nonsense, they know.
(Lady seeker: Horrible)
Shri Mataji: We have somebody here, whom you should talk to, then he’ll tell you about it, and the one who wrote this book “Advent”. He was, he was also wanting to become a priest and all that, and he is very much against it.
Actually against Catholicism I spoke about three, two years back, isn’t it? (To some yogi) In your wedding I spoke. Very much.
Lady seeker asks Shri Mataji that, as She said She had a Christian background, whether it was a Protestant or a Catholic approach.
Shri Mataji: Lutheran.
Lady seeker: Pardon?
Shri Mataji: Lutheran. I was baptized by Lutherans (She laughs) And then – then My father was a member of the Church of Scotland, Presbyterian. I have no background, neither My father had. My father was a very learned man, and a very evolved soul, you see. He knew 14 languages, then he had mastered Sanskrit language and all that.
Lady seeker says something about Shri Mataji being from Madhra Pradesh and She is probably…
Warren repeats: “She thinks You are from Madhya Pradesh, You are not from Madhra Pradesh”.
Shri Mataji: No, actually that time that Madhya Pradesh was in Maharashtra. Now it’s on its own. You see, that part is Maharashtra.
[Lady seeker says that she thought She was a Catholic, then she saw Her place of origin so she was trying to figure out.]
Shri Mataji: That is the center of India. That hill station is the center of India. That’s where I was born. In the Tropic of Cancer.
(Lady seeker: “I know India very well. That particular area is about 50 miles from Nagpur…”)
Shri Mataji: That’s the place is placed on the Tropic of Cancer, Mecca is also Tropic of Cancer.
[End of video recording]
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi