Public Program 6, Vishuddhi Chakra

East West Center, New York City (United States)


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Public Program Day 6, during America Tour, “East West Center, 141, 5th avenue”, New York (USA), 29 September 1981.

[First Warren introduced Sahaja Yoga]

Doctor Warren has clearly told you about these subtle bodies within us. And we should think why this subtle body was created? What was the need to create this body within and how it was created?
These, all these centers are the milestones of our evolution. And as we started growing, higher and higher, developing higher and higher awareness, we developed all these centers one by one. And at the human level it’s this center where the man raised his head up. Still why? What was the need to create a human being?
Supposing I’m trying to get some nuts, bolts and things, and try to fix them up, make it into a good instrument. One would ask what are you doing? Why are you assembling all this, what are you making out of it? After all, it cannot be a waste, why such a special thing has been made, for what purpose?
And that is what we have not yet discovered, what is our purpose.
But if you go to any of the Scriptures, you’ll find out that they have said, all of them has said, that you have to become your Self.
That there is All Pervading Power around us. Now this All Pervading Power we cannot see. It exists. As they say, if you have to believe it, or not. But you should find out if there is such a Power or not. For example if I say that there are lots of beautiful pictures and beautiful music in his area, you won’t believe it. But if I get you a television set and if I plug it to the main, ou starts seeing that it is receiving something.
In the same way, when you become connected with the whole, then what should happen to you is that you start feeling that All Pervading Power. This is Self knowledge.
And it’s written at length, very clearly, by many people in the Indian Scriptures. The reason was, the people who came in the other parts of the world had such a tought time, they were not given any chance to say anything much about it. Hardly they could utter anything and they were crucified, poisoned, beaten up, tortured, all kinds of problems they were given.
So this has to happen within us that you we should feel this All Pervading Power. “

The other day we had 2 persons from a guru and they said how can it be only this cool breeze that is coming in us, is something?
For a human being, to conceive something about God, is to go to scriptures which have lasted for all these ages, to find out one of the authorities you can have. Now, it is said that there is All Pervading power in all the scriptures.
Now supposing, by going to somebody, he says I give you power called, so called shaktipat, and he just starts jumping like a mad horse or a like a mad monkey, and you say it is shaktipat! And your are vigorous; movements and all kind of acrobats you fall into and you believe that this is shakti. And then, by the time it is over, you are exhausted and finished. How can that be a shaktipat? The idea of energy within us is not horse energy by which a horse can run very fast, that’s physical energy, we should understand. That’s just a tiny part of this part [Shri Mataji shows the right channel] It’s just a physical energy. Now human beings don’t need a horse power, do they? You have already got big cars here which have tremendous horse powers. You don’t have to become horses now, or bulls or some sort of an animal, [Shri Mataji laughs]. Our idea of a Superman is that he will have such power that he can lift the whole building and throw away somewhere. All such absurd ideas should be given up and [you] should understand that’s physical wellbeing so that you can feel the blessings – the blessings of your Spirit. Blessing work, an animal doesn’t understand; but a human being must understand that when he gets spiritually endowed and spiritually blessed, then, first thing he should have is a physical wellbeing. That doesn’t mean that he becomes a wrestler, That doesn’t mean that his body will be so built that if he slaps somebody, then the other person will die. On the contrary, you become such a powerful personality that if somebody slaps him, for him it’s nothing, it is all nonsense.
So the concept of human beings can be from the kind of life they lead, the kind of media they face, the kind of identification the society has, all kinds of things could be there. For example, for Japanese children, I was amazed, for them the idea of a Superman is that he should look like a ghost, he should at least ten times bigger than a normal human being. And that’s what they think they should achieve. Because I studied their media, specially their cinema and most of them are producing these phantom ideas. We don’t become phantoms that is one thing one should know. Neither we become agitated – how can we become agitated? We are in bliss and peace. If you start just gesticulating and sort of shouting and screaming like mad, then how can that be a shaktipat? It’s madness, you are possessed, it’s possession on you. Anywhere you go anybody’s possessed, you go and see lunatics, they do the same. You pay these people to become lunatics, to believe that they have given you a power, it’s absurd.
Now the power that has come, is going to come to us, has to give you a wellbeing. [Inaudible] these people if you should look at them, they are sickly people, they are reclusive, they are actually frightened, some of them are even frightened of a garlic as I told you.
So the Realization if it comes to you, the chakras which are placed on your fingers, should be enlightened, minimum of minimum and that you should be able to feel this All Pervading power that is there.

This is Self knowledge, this is “atma bodha”. Bodha means to know; to know, to feel that power. Even, after Realization, when you grow a little bit more, you will start seeing comma like powers, it’s just like, you can say a – in English I don’t know- small sparklers of commas, you can see it clearly. You can also see the Kundalinis of the people. You can also see a good soul and a bad soul like dots, you can clearly start seeing, once you get your Realization then you are in that level, then you can see.
But if you get possessed, say you are on the left hand side, then what will you see? You’ll see ghosts walking into your house. You’ll say your room is lifted up. Suddenly you’ll find your body is taken away and you are somewhere hanging. All these are very, very dangerous things about which people are not aware. Never go near these things and these people.

Recently there’s a big disease that has started, which is a very dangerous disease I don’t know if you people, are aware of it or not. That when small children are sleeping in the day time, say they are in Switzerland. And say their mother may be in America. The timings are different. That time, it may be the night and here it may be the day time. And the mother goes to a clairvoyant and says that: “I would like to speak to my child”. “Alright”. So the child is sleeping and this clairvoyant gets a soul around, and asks the soul to get the soul of the child and the mother can hear the voice of the child, sitting down here. “Oh, I’m speaking without any telecommunication I’m talking to my child”. And it’s very common that the child dies in sleep and the mother doesn’t know. Because the soul has to return, and if it does not return properly, if something goes wrong in his return, the child is away. And also, the soul suffers in any case when it leaves the body [inaudible] and it is very dangerous to human life. And we go headlong into it and we destroy ourselves. They are very, very cunning people I tell you.
Yesterday, those two people who were discussing me, arguing with me, they told me that their guru thinks very highly of me. And there also, people have heard they told me that our guru said that you don’t go to Her, because She will only accept you if you are absolutely purified and we have to purify. All this is nonsense. These people are just playing tricks on your mind. The purification takes when the Kundalini rises. She purifies you. Because you come to know about yourself when the Kundalini rises, face the problem. And once you know the problem you correct yourselves. Kundalini awakening gives you the judgement of your own Self as if you are going in the car and you get out of the car to see what’s wrong with the car.

It is very simple when the Kundalini rises to correct you. For example, supposing there’s a person who smokes too much. I may tell him don’t smoke, don’t smoke, all that. He gets tired of me, run away, won’t see me again. There is no need to tell you don’t smoke. Once you get your Self Realization, you won’t smoke at all. Little willpower will work it out, in the first instance. But even if it doesn’t act, the first instance, gradually you will just drop it out because of transmutation that takes place.
So we have to see that when we say that we have got some sort of a shakti or a power within us, we should become master of ourselves, of our greed, of our desires and of our aggressive nature. We should become the master of that. Unless and until that happens to us, how should we believe that it is innate power and that we should feel this All Pervading, blissful power around us. Unless and until you’re awakened to that, how can you see? Unless and until you eyes are open, how will you see that? And that awakening is enlightenment.

Now you are so beautifully made inside see, already you are made like that. [Shri Mataji shows the subtle system chart] Already you are made like that. Except that if you are not ruining it by breaking it completely. You are there, it’s made for which you have not paid anything. You are putting no effort, no jumping, nothing. You have become a human being from a monkey, without cutting your tails. Automatically, spontaneously you’ve become. And if you have to become anything higher, you will become, spontaneously. The only difference is that at this stage of evolution, you have been given your freedom to choose. Because at a high level when you will move, you have to be free people. And that freedom is to be respected. This is one point. And the second point is that your Realization has to take place in your human awareness, you should know! When you became a human being from a monkey stage, you never knew how you became. But now you must know. Because you must know that there is God and you must know that his power is flowing to you.

That’s why one should understand what we should expect when we get our Realization? Of course, as we said, that when you start getting the power within you, once it starts working, then you can learn about it, how you manifest it, how you use it.
First, when electricity was discovered, nobody knew that it will have so many uses. But then we discovered how many uses it has! But here, you don’t even have to discover it. If it is told that this has this use, you just try and see for yourself, it has or not. It’s like, you get, say, a car, you purchase a car and they give you everything in writing: now try this one. If you should press this button, that will happen. If you should press that button, that will happen.
In the same way, the whole thing is decorated, completely decorated for you to use this power within you, to manoeuvre it, to handle it and to manifest it.
We have no self-esteem. If we have self-esteem we should understand that God has created you with such difficulties, whatever it is. Thousands of times, thousands of years He has taken for you to become a human being. And that you must be something special, much higher than animals no doubt about it and that it should happen to you. It is He who loves you. It is He who is the father. His compassion, love and the greatest father that you could think of is, the One who shares the One who gives you His kingdom. Must have that self-esteem that you are a human being.

I think somehow, perhaps, because of these conditionings you have had, you think how can we get Realization so easily? You don’t believe, you don’t want to believe. You think how can we be Realized so easily? Because everything you do in life, you think you have to struggle. But there are so many things you don’t do with struggle; like, you get a fruit without any struggle. Even if you breath, all our autonomous nervous system works without any struggle. You eat and the food is digested automatically. You don’t have to struggle for it, you don’t have to jump or do jogging or anything like that. It just works out. We should understand it is the blessing, it’s the blessing. People have become so much science oriented that they have forgotten that science also is a blessing. Science is a blessing. Now for example, see this photograph of mine here. I had gone to a village and the village, which had no electricity, nothing, and a very old building of a school, I was sitting outside. 18:26

And the photograph caught on these falling rains, the photograph! Your camera has caught it

I went to Hong Kong on the Television, and they asked Me, because the person who was owning the television, she got invited and she said: “Mother, can we ask the people to put their hands towards you like this?” I said: “Alright, let’s start.” And they got Realization, so many of them, they wrote letters that “we‘ve got Realization.” On the television! Even on the telephone, you can give Realization, on the telephone you can save people. All this science has created is for Sahaja Yogis and for Sahaja Yoga. It is a blessing to communicate the message. But, people are so blind, so blind that they think all this has been given to us to make more money and to create more plastics. [Laughter]
They cannot believe that this is to communicate about God’s love, His compassion and that security that is from the most loving father you could think of. It is beyond human conception to understand His compassion, I accept. But still you see compassion in life and if he is the source of compassion then what must be His level of compassion?

Now as it is he [Warren] has told you all about this quite a lot [the subtle system] and I have also yesterday told you and he said that I have only one more lecture to cover the whole subject, I don’t know what’s going to happen, how far I can go with people in New York.
I think we may have one more lecture when I come back, one more lecture might be. But today I think I should talk to you about the Self, first of all, then about all these things, it will be a better idea.

Now what is the Self?

Self is the reflection of God Almighty.

First, let us see how the creation came into being.
In the beginning or in end – because there is no beginning and there is no end – like you cannot say hen came first, this came first or the egg, it’s something like that. It started at a point, you see, when it was just all quiet. And the whole creation becomes – entropy or we can say it is sleeping. Everything is sleeping, like we sleep so the whole world sleeps for instance. That is a state that’s called as Parabhrama in Sanskrit language. It’s the first. Now, in the Bible, whatever is written is very telescopic and very fast. And to understand it I am just trying to enlarge it that where ever are the missing points, you can put them up.
Now the first state is of Parabhrama is a state where everything is not manifesting, everything is sleeping. Then this Parabhrama becomes aware of Itself that It awakens as we awaken. Then It starts manifesting. All the awareness, the consciousness of that starts accumulating on the periphery and the centre remains as the Subject.
The periphery now is the Power of that Subject.

So we have the subject, the God Almighty, is called as Sadashiva and His Power that is the Primordial Power, in Sanskrit is called as Adi Shakti, and we call it as Holy Ghost in the Bible.
So, they separate, I mean it’s a – some drawings have to be made now but doesn’t matter- I just tell you in short.
And this spectator, this Sadashiva, this God Almighty starts watching His own Power. Now we cannot understand the complete concord and complete understanding, complete oneness and integration between these two entities, God Almighty and His Power. It’s like the Sun and his rays or sunshine, Moon and moonlight, but even more than that. Nothing can come in between them. They are absolutely in unison with each other and every thing works simultaneously.

In human relationship, no husband and wife can be like that, it’s impossible.
Then the Spectator, Sadashiva, forces His Power, which forms an entity, to create. First, She refuses. And then He gives Her- I mean in a very poetic way- it’s called as a Lasya, means a launch and that gives the first sound, Omkara. That’s the first, logos, the first sound, the Verb. That’s the word She says, She creates.
Then She starts creating. She creates, She divides Herself first of all, She is nothing but the Power of desire. Because, first it is to be desired! It’s the God’s desire! She exists as a desire. Unless and until there is desire, nothing can work out. So She is the Power of desire. Like we have also the Power of desire within us. Then from this desire, comes the other Power which makes it an act. So the other Power of action comes in. These two Powers bring forth a system in between themselves like left and right, which starts giving sustenance to things that have been created. As I told you that carbon has four valences, it’s a tetravalent, I don’t know if you people have studied chemistry or not, there’s a chemical periodic table if you see, it’s all divided so beautifully and it is so well arranged, that one has to believe that there is a great juggler or a great planner who has done it, otherwise it’s not possible. It’s so well arranged! The whole valences system and everything is so well arranged. All this is done by the central path which gives them the sustenance, the quality that they have.
Then the sustenance starts growing till you become a human being as shown here. In this void, here as carbon then you move into the void and here you go through all the evolution starting from a fish up to the human level where you become a small man. Once you become the small man, Vamana, is called that. First the man who came on this earth was a small statured man. Then a man came who was Parashurama, a very, very – Poseidon, a very large man, huge. Two extremes. And then, came the man who was in the centre. And the leadership of all this evolution was done by the Incarnation of the aspect which is the evolutionary aspect. So the first aspect She creates is the desire aspect. When the desire dies, the whole thing is destroyed. And the Spectator is watching. Spectator has a desire. As long as the Spectator is happy, the play goes on. As soon as He doesn’t like the spectacle, He disappears.
As soon as He disappears, then the whole show is over. It’s for that only Spectator the whole show is done.
So this Power of desire has to be till the end. Once the Power of desire is finished, then there is no more show; there’s no more Spectator, there’s no more His Power, they’re all much together and again become the Parabrahma [inaudible].

Now the other Power as I said which is the aspect of creation so the Creator aspect is there. One is the one which is the existence and the other side of the existence is the Destroyer. And then another aspect is of the Creator and the central one is the Sustainer, is the Protector. Out of these, this one incarnates, only one aspect because it has to give a quality and the leadership. For example, when there was a great flood, then He [Vishnu] incarnated. He incarnated as a fish and the dolphin-fish. Dolphin. I don’t know if you know about dolphins or not. But dolphin is a mammal and is a friend of human beings. So He incarnated as a dolphin-fish and saved the boat [Noah’s Ark]. As you know, there was a boat in which people were saved. He saved the boat. He is the dolphin who incarnated on this Earth.
One by one, He incarnates. Then He incarnates as a turtle, four legged which comes out of the water to show the fishes that you can come out. Then, gradually He incarnates as a quadruped. Like that, the Incarnations — He comes as a leader. Somebody has to give that confidence. One fish comes and takes them out and others come, they follow them up. As they go on improving, every time there is an Incarnation. And between one Incarnation and another Incarnation, there is a very great time and that is called as Yuga. Like that the Incarnations come on this Earth.

Last incarnation of the Primordial Being comes in this area [Void] – where we can say this is the Ocean of Illusions – and try to save the people from getting too much to that side [right] or to this side [left] as I told you yesterday. And that time, when they become human beings, then the seekers are born, which you are, which are the epitome, epitome of human evolution.

Now these seekers are engulfed by forces of ignorance and these ignorance forces also form anti-Christ. They can be devilish because they think: “why are we not there?” like a competition setting. And they try to retard the progress of the saints. That’s why a seeker, when he’s born, is attacked, from very childhood, immediately he is attacked. Even the parents will attack the seeker. They may act through the parents. If not the parents, then the society, the schools. They’re all the time attacked. The people who are attacking may not be aware of it but they are used as mediums and these people are attacked.

And with that attack, when they are absolutely in a mess, and they don’t know how to save themselves, then, another Incarnation is specially made. It’s the One that manifest here [Shri Mataji points at the fourth chakra on chart], who is the desire Power of God, but is the Destroyer part, who is born to destroy these evil forces, to kill them. This is fourteen thousand years back, the first incarnation of this great Lady. She’s called as Jagadamba, the Mother of this world. She comes in here [centre heart]. She saves us. Today is the first day, we celebrated the first day of an Incarnation and that is a very, very important day for Indians, because they believe in Shakti and She is the Shakti, that she came on this earth to kill the horrible devilish incarnations who are called as rakshasas. So this part is represented within us at the heart level in the center in the sternum and it manifests in the children till the age of twelve in the sternum and creates antibody. She creates Her army as the antibodies. Till the age of twelve years the children develop those antibodies within themselves and whenever there is a danger, whether it is physical, emotional or spiritual danger, these antibodies fight. That’s why, when you are frightened, the sternum starts breathing fast and informs that all the antibodies should join hands to protect the subject.
These antibodies are created here [centre heart]. And the left hand side, left had side of this [left heart] is the essence of Motherhood. If in your childhood, your Mother had played a role which has given you fears or kind of frightening experience, then this center goes out, is said the left heart is catching. Sometimes, if you are a bad mother also it might catch.

The right heart is the one, is that of the father. And the fatherhood is expressed by the leader who came on this earth about 8 thousand years back, who is called as Shri Rama. If you see here, He’s in the center [Shri Mataji shows the right heart]. To make him a complete human being, He must push on to the right hand side. He is shri Rama. Shri Rama came on this earth to establish the institution of benevolent king. The political development and the political evolution started from this side [right side]. He is the one who gave leadership as a benevolent king, the one who represents God and who is a king. The idea of a king related to God came from Shri Rama. But the modern Kings are not like that, they have no relation with God. On the contrary, they are horrid people. Some of them are nothing but satanic people, absolutely Satan is there and you can see from the way they lead their lives, and they have led their life before. So the benevolence of Shri Rama is here [Shri Mataji shows the right heart] to be followed by all the political leaders and all the people who are at the helm of affairs. He is the ideal that was created for human beings, to run their authority as the head, or the loving compassionate benevolent leader of the people, who has to govern them by making them respectful, by respect. And if human beings create such things who are not respectable, those who have no human values, those who have no moral courage, those who are selfish, those who are self centred, then they have nothing to do to be there.
So this is the position of Rama who is the father. So the head of every state has to be the father of his subjects, that’s what He has tried to show by his life. So much so that He had to sacrifice His beloved Wife, whom He loved so much.

But these days, you know, how people do for their own children, they’ll sell the whole country. In our India, they do it. Here it’s just the other way round, nobody cares for children at all and nobody knows whose children they are. But in India it’s the other way round, that they will even sell their country for their children. All these two extremes go against the character of Shri Rama. Now this is the character that was created 8 thousand years back.

So I’m explaining to you all these things. Now this is the heart. In the heart resides the Spirit.
The Spirit is watching the game of this creation, and is watching what is happening to this person, this person, to this person, to this person. Everybody has got in their heart the Spirit which is watching; it’s called as the chetana [consciousness], means the one, the knower of the field. He’s watching every minute; he knows what to do, where you go, what mistakes you create, he’s watching, he doesn’t interfere. He’s only- the interference comes from here (Swadhishthana?), from that thing, he tries to give you conscience, he tries to improve you from here sometimes [Mooladhara chakra], the wisdom part. He tries to tell you are not in the center by punishing you and showing it is wrong. But he’s just watching the game: “let’s see how far it goes.” He is the knower of your field. He is the Universal Being within you. He is the reflection of that God Almighty who’s the Spectator within you. And His Power is this All Pervading Power which has created all this [the subtle system]. So to feel this is this All Pervading Power, we have to become the Spirit. All this creation has no meaning if you do not become the Spirit. In a way, that’s the first, the very first time I say that by reading Vedas, if you do not become Vedis [a vedi is a wise man] –VediniesVeda word comes from vidya, vidya means to know; if you don’t become the knowledge, then it has no meaning.

But knowledge doesn’t lie in dancing and shouting and all the monkey tricks that people do; it’s no monkey tricks there. Knowledge is that you become the Self, you feel the All Pervading Power and by which you know everything else. That is Self knowledge and that is what we have to achieve.

If you do not want to become your Spirit, I’m sorry, I’ve nothing to offer. If you have some other things in your mind, you can go away from here, but no use arguing it, there should be no argument about it. If you don’t want to become, I have nothing to say, I’ve nothing else to offer or to request you. I would request you that you become your Spirit, then we’ll talk about it. And when you become your Spirit – there’s a very good book written by Adi Shankaracharya in the 6 century, the one who was the first Adi Shankaracharya. Nowadays all of them are horrible ones. One of them is now making a big umbrella of gold, set in with diamonds, imagine! He’s a short fellow, I said this umbrella will fall upon him one day. He’s trying to compete with Pope.
And this Adi Shankaracharya has said that nothing can work it out, no Yoge, no shankye, [Sankhya, Yoga] all these philosophies are useless. It only works out- no discipline, nothing- by the Grace of the Mother; by the Grace of the Mother who is the Kundalini herself, She’s the Primordial Kundalini. Only by the awakening of the Kundalini it works out. It’s clearly given but you people do not read those books.

Today is the day of the Goddess, ten of them are nothing but the different chakras, where She resides in the Mooladhara, She resides in the Swadhishthana, She resides in the Manipura, She resides in the -what you call- the Hridaya (heart) chakra, She resides in the Vishuddhi, then into Agnya, then into Sahastrara. All these names are given here. Of course, it was not as clearly said as it is said today because the time was not there to say. But all these things are there: how she rises, how she breaks all these “granthis” with are between these two chakras, and the “granthi” means the knots. It’s so clearly given. It’s never given that you start jumping like a monkey, or you take out your clothes, all this nonsense is not there, on the contrary, it is said that this is all possession. You get “bhootagrasta”, means you get possessed by the dead. It’s so clearly given! But people don’t feel these bhoots: they jump onto people who have come here to show some sort of a mesmerism and accept it. But you are seekers.
I would request you, you are seekers, first of all know that you are seekers and don’t be deluded by these false things. Do not waste your energy on these false things, you’ll become your Self. Of course, it goes without saying that the change, the transformation, comes in, in your awareness first of all, in your awareness. Not in jumping and not with all those nonsensical things. I mean people think that if you become a stupid fellow, then your awareness has improved, is transformed, after all, after all your are transformed, you see, your are a sane person you’ve become stupid: you are transformed in any case. If you become mad, then is it a greater transformation? Mother says: “Alright transformation, we have become mad. We were sane people, we are landing in a lunatic asylum, we are transformed. And also transmutation has taken place. Because now we wear dresses like lunatic people, we behave like lunatic people, transformation has taken place.”

It’s an ascent of the mind, you have to ascend. Your awareness has to ascend and not to descend. It’s very easy to descend. To move on to the left or to the right is not the way, but to move here (Shi Mataji puts her hand above Her Sahastrara) into Super Consciousness. And that’s one thing one should know, should happen: that is the Self knowledge. That is the thing one has to get, is to awaken these centres within you which are represented on your fingers here, seven of these are shown here and then to feel the All Pervading Power to begin with. Once it has happened, then to know how to discern how to decode, how to find out, how to improve, how to go further. First of all, get the connection. If your car has not yet started, what are you doing about it? It’s so simple and such a common sense, but I don’t know how these people are taken over.
The only problem, as I told you before, is this, that God has given you freedom and that freedom is to be respected.
But if you go to these people you don’t ask any questions, you do as others do just like monkeys, you don’t even think why they are doing it. I mean you see that it is so filthy.
Like a gentleman who came to me, who went to a guru, and he was absolutely ruined. I said: “How could you do? You are an Indian, don’t you know that this is not to be done?” He said: “I just tried to see. Just out of curiosity I went there. And I also started jumping and I got into it. ” And for five years he was in it, he could not know that he was in it. I said for Indians they have some wisdom because they have read all these things, they know all about it. “How could you do it?” They know that unholiness is not the way to God. Now, some of them can give you also an explanation that all your- you are to be cleansed. And you pay for it as if you go to some a laundry here, you pay for it, you put yourself into it, it goes into some turnings and you become clean. You are to be cleansed. You must see their life pattern, you see, you must see how they live.
The person who cannot even smell a flower how can he cleanse you?” He himself needs a lot of treatment. Flower he cannot smell, can you imagine a man like that who cannot smell a flower? I mean he’s a dumb personality I would say, the most beautiful thing that is produced is the flower, how is he going to feel the human flowers? How is he going to enjoy? A person who cannot take out his goggles from his eyes and can’t face people, how can you believe that such a man could be something holy? Any holy person doesn’t have this kind of eyes. One has to know that if the person doesn’t lead a holy life and parasites, greedy people, asking for money and Roll Royce and things like that how such people, you think they can be a guru? You have no self esteem I should say. They are absolutely devils.

But the problem in this, for me, the problem is very, very different. Krishna has said: “Yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata, Paritranaya sadhunang vinashay cha dushkritam, sambhabami yuge” [Bhagavad Gita Chapter 4, Verse 7-8]
He said that: “whenever there is the degradation of sustenance, then, to save the Saints and to kill the Satanics, I come on this earth and take the form.” Now the problem is, all the Saints have got these Satanics in their heads. My problem is very complicated. I know they are Saints, I know there are the ones who are seekers and have been for ages, but they are impressed by the Satanics and the Satanics are ruling.
So if any- if the question of killing some maraka [destroying] of Krishna comes in, you see, even if they are killed they are in your brain, then how can you kill? They have to go out of your brain. The complicated structure today of the seekers is this, that in their brains they have got all the Satanics centred, they cannot get rid of it. They are so impressed!
Yesterday the fellow said that: “But Mother, every thing is good, there is nothing like evil.”
I said: “Really?” [Inaudible] To believe in such a thing that there is no evil itself, is such a dangerous situation. Then why do you need discrimination? Go ahead. Whether you go to hell or to heaven what does it matter? If there is no evil, enjoy your hell! Have a holiday [laughter]

Christ has so many times said about the Satan. Not only but He said that the Satan tried to tempt Him. He has talked of Satan and still, how do you believe that there is no evil, I just can’t understand.
There is not only evil but the darkness is so great that we are standing at a point so precariously placed, very precarious placed that people are more impressed by evil than by good. See how many people we are. Just see for yourself.
Here we are for reality, you cannot pay for anything, you get your Realization, fifty per cent people have got Realization here, but how many people there are? And they have no patience even to sit down but I’ve known people: “I’ve been with a guru for 8 years. He is in my heart”. The heart is all catching and you’re fainting all the time with the guru being there.
The very big problem which you should realize these are all saints. My only concern is to save them.
There are very subtle methods of sabotaging of destroying the work of God. And you should know, when you get your Realization, that you have to become strong pillars of God’s work and not indulging into frivolous, useless, cheep things. But get to it, learn it, master it. You’ll become your own master. These gurus who have no power, nothing, they have become gurus and have minted so much money out of you and you are the people who are Realized souls and you are so quiet.
You should shout at the top of houses and say that these are false people, these are fake people. Christ himself has said that there will be false and fake gurus.
And then people said that: “why are you talking against them?” He said: “The Satanics are not going to talk against themselves, in his house”. He said it clearly.
And when people tell me: “Mother, don’t talk about them” I always tell them: “I’ll talk, not only talk, but whenever it is possible I tell them definitely and verily say that these are Satan whom I know now for ages, for thousand of years, I’ve known them, each one of them, all their tricks I know. I know what they do to you. And don’t listen to them that they are cleansing you. Let them cleanse themselves and repent so that they don’t go back into hell permanently.

So here, at this stage of the Mother, She’s terrific, She protects you. She has many antibodies. Actually, these antibodies were created at a particular time when it was said that there was a Satan who could not be killed by the quadruped and the people who have two legs like human beings. So She created a special type of a – gnat, you call that gnat? A black thing, with six legs, and She killed him. And these antibodies are those with the six legs and they worked it out. There are there. She’s the one who protects us.

Now, coming to the gross level, when a lady is worried about her security, which is very common in America, because husbands, if they have flirts, if they have no time for their wives, and if all the time, they tell the wife you may have to leave the house, they develop the fear in this area [heart centre]. And the disease which is caused by that is breast cancer, which is very common in America, breast cancer. Breast cancer is caused to women who have a sense of insecurity. In Sahaja Yoga you can cure breast cancer, it’s very easy to cure breast cancer in Sahaja Yoga.

Now the combination of this and this gives you asthma. Among men who have asthma, they must look after their fatherhood. Their own father- supposing somebody’s father is dead without the knowledge of the man or the father can possess also. In that case, you get this kind of a thing.
Surprisingly, recently in London, one doctor, I don’t know how, experimented with a lady that was suffering from anorexia. Her father had died and she would not eat her food. And many of them are like that whose father has died, they suffer from anorexia. And he said: “All right, let us see about your father. Let us do some sort of a ceremony for him.” And she started eating alright, it’s most surprising. It came in the paper that he did that. That is how you can cure such women who suffer from a deficiency of a fatherhood; or may be we can say, if the father possessed you, if the child is thinking of the father all the time, all these things can be cured in Sahaja Yoga, which, I’m sure, when you will go further in the studies of Sahaja Yoga, you will learn one by one, how to cure such people who have these diseases.
Now, I’ll leave these three centers for tomorrow and I’ll try to cover it up, but this is the Spirit that is still watching.
When the Kundalini –this is the seat of it [Shri Mataji places Her hand above Sahastrara] – when the Kundalini rises and she touches that seat, immediately you get connected to the Spirit. And the Spirit, which is this All Pervading power starts flowing through your hands as well as you start feeling it outside. The Spectator, the Witness, who was outside our central nervous system, now comes into our central nervous system and we know every thing about, as we start using this power of Spirit.
If you remember, Christ was touched by some woman who was sick, and He felt the power flew to her and this is the same thing. But Christ was different, He was All Pervading power, He was Omkara, that’s why He could walk on the water.
But about Christ and about Shri Krishna, I’ll tell you later on, tomorrow, if you don’t mind.

I hope I’ve been able to explain many things to you, but if you have any questions you can ask me now and then we’ll start the workshop of Realization. In any case, tomorrow morning again, I will be available in the hotel. I don’t go out anywhere except for today I had this special occasion. And I would like to attend to you personally.
May God bless you.
If you want to ask any questions, please ask.

Shri Mataji to someone: You are a real questioner every time.
Seeker: [Inaudible]; very nice.
Shri Mataji: Have you found the lady or not for yourself?
Seeker: Yes….[Inaudible] I start to see negativity in myself.
Shri Mataji: You’re seeing all that. That ‘s what happens. You start seeing your ego you start seeing your negativity, you start facing it. Now you are out of it…

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi