An experience of a Kundalini

Vancouver, Kitsilano Secondary School (Canada)

1981-10-09 An experience of a Kundalini, Vancouver, Canada, DP-RAW, 92' Chapters: Talk, Q&A, Self-Realization
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Public Program. Vancouver (Canada), 9 October 1981.

It’s very kind of you, all of you to have come today, to meet me. It was really a very short visit, the shortest that I have ever done, because somebody told Me that in Canada there is an ocean of seekers, there are many, many seekers here and very true seekers.

So I just wanted to see what was the situation, to have a look at it. I did not expect. I must say the vibrations in Vancouver, I can’t say about the whole country are really wonderful and the people have been so nice and so good, so understanding.

I hope we’ll be able to arrange some sort of a centre here, very soon, we’ll have to get some people from abroad, then you’ll have to go abroad.

This work is such, is so simple and so loving. One can’t believe that it could be that simple. But as an example, I would say, that if there is a television set with us, I would take it to an Indian village they will say “What sort of a box you are carrying? What sort of a thing it is?”, they won’t understand what it is, if they have not seen it anywhere. And you tell them that all over here there are lots of notes of music and plays going on and you can see all that in this one. They won’t believe it, they can’t believe there could be such a fantastic instrument. So when you plug in, they start seeing it and they are flabbergasted.

Now, you understand about television quite a lot, and you know how far you have gone with your science. But as far as human beings are concerned, the scientists have made no enquiry and there is no pursuit to find out what are we. Why are we here, why have we become human beings from amoeba stage, is there any sense in that evolution or just God was mad or Nature was mad to make us a human being? Nobody asked this question, the scientists never asked why.

We are going to the moon to find out – God knows what – to waste all the money. But we do not want to know what we are actually inside, and this is the trouble that scientists have decided to turn their back to all the scriptures and all the things that people, so far, told us.

They think it was all a myth, there is no God and is all falsehood. Despite all that, people feel “There must be something beyond” and the seeking is there, the seeking is there.

Now I would say to you people who are brought up in a western way that you must have the same attitude of a scientist, that means an open attitude, you should not put a barrier. People say “We are sceptical!”, all right, but what are you sceptical about? Or “We don’t believe in God” but how can you say you don’t believe. You can say, all right, “We have not seen God, we have not felt Him”, all right, “We have seen all the wrong things done in the name of God” that is also correct; but how can you say that there is no God?

You must keep yourself open to see whether what these people (like great prophets, like Christ) all these people whatever they have said about God is true or not. If you have not yet verified it then you have not been fair, you have not been fair at all, you have not been open at all to find out where these things whatever is said whether these things are true or untrue.

So one has to keep the mind open without a barrier, this I would request you, as a scientist faces a hypothesis and he faces it with an open mind and sees for himself if it works out, if the laws work out, then only he has to believe, not before that.

But the area of religion has been so much exploited, so much been ruined by so many agencies working it out, you see, taking the contract; like people think they have all the contracts: somebody has the contract of Christ, somebody has the contract of Shri Krishna, somebody has the contract of Islam. And all of them seem to be becoming very much fanatical about it, and everybody think that they are right and the others are wrong, without even paying attention what others have to say.

For example, if you want to hear about Christians go to Jews, if you want to hear about the Jews go to Muslims. I mean, we are seeing what’s happening with this fanaticism. Khomeni, you know? sort of a fellow, he is. He thinks he is the incarnation of God almighty himself, he is not afraid of God, he does what he likes and he thinks he is doing in the name of Allah. Imagine!

Then there is another one we saw recently, Sadam being killed, because of the fundamentalists or the people who believe in a particular ideology. It will happen to all of us, if we go on like this, madly from one to another.

So one has to understand that, if there is God, if there is somebody like that, then He cannot discriminate between anyone: human beings are human beings. How can He discriminate between people who say that we are Christians, we are this, we are that, this is all brands people are carrying with them.

Some people say “We are atheists”, whether you believe in God or not, if He exists, He will exist, despite the fact that you don’t believe in Him.

So we have to keep ourselves open, entirely open and see for ourselves if there is any truth or not.

Now we have reached such a state where the time has come to prove that all these scriptures are the Truth; that human beings are specially meant to be those higher self and that all those prophets and Incarnations who came on this Earth, they all reside within us and they exist. It can be proved absolutely.

How it can be proved, what we have to expect and what are we, these are the points I would like to touch today. Because you can understand that the time is very short and I am here only for a day, but I will try my level best to cover all these points.

Moreover, about Kundalini, I hope we have books which we can pass it over to you. You can see for yourself all these books, and read them and understand the mechanism behind it.

But it is as simple as you understand electricity. If you have to come to this room, just to make the whole room enlightened, you have just to press one button, that’s all. You do not have to do much. But for a person who has never known electricity it’s too much. For an Indian villager is not too much to feel that he becomes that great thing, the Spirit; he doesn’t feel it’s fantastic to have this, because he knows about it, he’s brought up that way.

But for a westernized Indian or, we say, the western people is something so fantastic, they can’t believe how can it happen. They think they have to go from happiness to unhappiness, unhappiness to happiness. They can’t think that there is any way of getting out of it and that’s how the people in the west still doubt when you say “You are fantastic and you have to become that and you can become”.

Now one has to understand that your evolution has come through a living process, a living process within us and whatever is living happens spontaneously. For example, if you have to sprout a seed, now you do not stand on your head for that or you do not do any hatha yoga and all these horrible things: it sprouts by itself!

In the same way, if it is going to be any evolution, it is going to be a living thing. That means it exists within you and it is going to manifest itself at the right moment.

Now we have to offer you a certain concept about these things, which is a concept for you today, but it will be the truth for you tomorrow.

We have within us this subtle being (yes, if you can pull it back). Within us, there is placed, in the triangular bone here called as sacrum. Just imagine the word sacrum, itself suggests it’s sacred, that means the Greeks knew about this. Is this Mother Kundalini.

Now you must have read, some of you must have read some books about it. And – you see – the people who are nowhere near the truth always first start writing books – I have seen them. I mean, when I started reading about Kundalini I was shocked, because they had no idea as to where the Kundalini was. Somebody said it is in the stomach, somebody said this in the head, somebody said is in the nose. They have no idea and they wrote such contradictory things that one can’t understand how did they take to write into it. And some of them wrote that they had an experience of a Kundalini, which is not an experience of a Kundalini, but it is some sort of a spirit or some sort of mesmerising power which worked it out.

Because this is your Mother, and she is your own Mother, she is your individual Mother. And she is the power that is the all-pervading power around us. She is the part of that, or the reflection of that; and she resides there waiting for the occasion when, somebody who is authorized – authorized by God, not by churches or by, say, by some organized things like a temple, or something like that or a mosque, but by God Himself, a person who is an enlightened person, an evolved person, such a person can only awaken this Kundalini and she is just waiting for that moment, because she knows: she is the one who knows, she is the one who organizes, she is the one who coordinates and she is the one who loves… and she is the one who is waiting for this moment when she can give you your second birth.

It is a living process, second birth is a living process, just like an egg becomes the bird, just like a caterpillar becomes a butterfly. It is a living thing of metamorphosis, we can say like that. It is a transformation and a transmutation.

But people do not understand, they think that by doing some sort of a dead thing, or some sort of a thing that you can manoeuvre. For example, you see, some people say that “I have started dancing”, now you can always dance, what is so great about it? Some people say that “We got a feeling of shivering or some sort of a thing or then we felt horrible heat coming out”. All these things are quite possible, maybe because there is some sort of a possession in you, it happens with a person who gets possessed and it is nothing new. Or anything that happens to you beyond your control cannot be self-realisation. One should understand this simple fact.

If it is self-realisation it has to be in your own control. That some people just start jumping on the seat (sometimes I have seen them) and they think their Kundalini’s are arisen. I said “How? How can it be?” They said, “Our guru has said that, our Kundalini has arisen and that we are realised souls and that we are jumping like frogs” I said “How can you jump like frogs now, are you going to become frogs after becoming human beings? or are you going to become [..]?”

We must keep our logic intact to see what should happened to us when, we want to think, when we get our realisation.

First thing that you have to be your own master. Say for example. I will give you all modern example which you will understand. You are going in a car and the car suddenly slips by itself into some sort of a gorge or something, you are coming down. Do you think you are progressing? It is positive? Do you think that this is done because you are a master of the car?

Whatever should happen to you, should be you.. known to you, you should be able to manoeuvre it, you should be able to master it. Otherwise is not self-realisation, it is some sort of a hypnosis, or some sort of a possession or fixation that is working out.

So, first thing is you have to be the master of the whole thing. We should not be sort of fixed into an idea.

For example, today there was some ladies who were very angry with Me and they said “You’d better get out of Vancouver”. I did not know why she was angry with Me. You see, to say that we are Christians is no sufficient. We are have been Christians, our forefathers have been Christians, so many years we have been Christians, what have we achieved? By going to church did we achieve anything?

We should face the facts, have you got your own powers? Now what should happen to you? When it happens to you what really happens to your awareness is the point. When you evolved, your awareness became higher than the awareness of the animals.

For example, now, if you bring an animal here, for him it does not matter what colour you have, what thing you have, whether it is dirty, it is clean, it makes no difference to it. But for a human being, it makes a tremendous difference.

So our awareness has improved, in our awareness we have achieved something. So we must know what we get in our own awareness. Now you have clearly said that “If you have to get realised, then you must become collectively conscious”. Now I am saying “You must become, it is an actualization”, which is the problem and people who are forming groups and things without that, think that I am against them, I am not against them, I am actually trying to give them the meaning of the word.

For example we say that “I am born again”, all right, it is self-certification! If you are born again, if you are a realised soul then what should happen to you, you should be collectively conscious, you should be. What is the use of wasting your energy believing in something that is not truth? You have to become collectively conscious, a simple thing is like that. You have to be, I should say, “selfish”, in the sense that you should know what you have got out of it.

Now, once you become collectively conscious, once you become collectively conscious, you should be able to feel another person within yourself. As he said, that you can feel, you can feel what is the centre that another gentleman is catching, what are the centres you are catching. That is self-realisation, to know about yourself and to know about others is part of it, because Self is the Universal Being within us.

We have to become the Spirit. Now to become the Spirit does not mean you start dancing, anybody can dance on the streets. I mean, you must have logic behind it. We become recluses, that somebody who has spent thousands and thousands of pounds just to fly, I mean, why do you want to fly now?

I can’t understand, I mean, birds were flying, now you settled down as human beings and get your realisation and become a super-human being.

All these ideas about realisation are first to be neutralized and to be understood logically that when you become the Spirit, you have the power yourself, you must manifest the power of that love of that all-pervading power.

First of all it is said that there is an all pervading power around us. It is said in every scripture, any scripture you read it is said that there is an all-pervading power. Now, do you feel it? Anyone of you? You do not feel it, all right. Something has to happen to your awareness that you should feel it.

Actually what happens that when this Kundalini rises through this, these centres are represented in our hands, in our fingers, like one, two, three, four, five, six, seven [Shri Mataji is touching the points on Her hand]. It is shown here [indicating the chakras], you can see and in the book that they will give you, you will also see these things written down.

Now this centres get enlightened [Shri Mataji is pointing to the centre of the hand], means there are deities in all these centres. These are the milestones of our evolution. And these deities, when they get enlightened, what happens is that also these fingers get enlightened.

Because they are enlightened, now in the new awareness, they start feeling the all-pervading power. Then you are surprised, as  you grow that that is the only truth, the rest is all falsehood.

And after this, only you start doing the living work. That means you can raise the Kundalini.

Now you can see the pulsation of the Kundalini, here, in some people [Shri Mataji is indicating the Sacred Bone and the chakras], if there is an obstruction here, or an obstruction there. Otherwise it shoots off, it shoots off. But if there is an obstruction, it takes time, it just stops here and it tries to pump, like a… sometimes I have seen like a big balloon, or like a heart itself, pulsating. It pulsates, even with a stethoscope you can see the pulsation going up.

Now it reaches the apex here, at this fontanel bone area, where you feel the pulsation also, not in everyone, because I have seen people getting it in a shot. Like today we had a television program with this Vancouver show and the lady who was doing it  just told me “Mother, how will I get it?” and in a second she got it, just she got it and she said “Yes, i can feel the cool breeze in my hands”. She felt it, she did feel it. Now she cannot deny that she did not. And she felt the cool breeze coming out of here [Shri Mataji is indicating over Her Sahasrara],

Now, this you cannot do, you can jump, you can do all these things, but can you do this? Make the cool breeze come out of your head and feel the cool breeze around.

That is not the only thing that happens to you. When it arises, then immediately you feel thoughtlessly aware, means you become absolutely silent.

When the Kundalini passes through that centre [Shri Mataji is indicating her Agnya], which is a very very important centre for all of us to know – I may not able to tell you about all these centres, but you can find out from the book. It is very simple to find out and to verify. But this centre is very important, where you see the red mark, but actually it is the marketing a point in optic chiasma, in the centre of it, is a very important subtle centre, called as Agnya chakra. Now this Agnya chakra is the centre which is adorned by Jesus Christ. “This is the door” He said, this is the gate through which He has passed. And this is a very important centre, because this centre – you see – leads you to the limbic area and the limbic area is the Kingdom of God.

So to cross this… I mean all kinds of nonsensical people, things people say that you should concentrate here… you should not, this is the window [Shri Mataji touches the forehead], the door is here [Shri Mataji touches the top of the head], so those who concentrate here also spoil their Agnya chakra.

You do not have to do any effort for it, the more you do effort the worse it is. If you have done any effort, it will be difficult for Kundalini to rise; because it is spontaneous, it is living, there is no effort needed. She just sprouts by herself.

Example is like this. Supposing, now, you have a seed and you want to sprout it. Now supposing you try to pull out the primule out of it, the sprouting part out of it, will it sprout? No, it won’t, it cannot do it artificially, it is a dead thing. You have to just put it into the Mother Earth and it will sprout by itself.

Or people have such ideas as to do all kind of fixations here, like they can say “Oh, we can fix the stomach thing, and we can fix this and fix that”, it would be like a car, which has not yet started and you are just trying to move the wheels and the steering wheel and everything and then you say “Oh, the car will have started”. Actually you have spoiled it completely.

If there is no connection, say, in the telephone and you try to telephone, you spoil the telephone. You have to have the connection with your Spirit. Without getting to the Spirit, you cannot have connection to the Divine. That’s the point where you have to reach. And the Spirit resides in your Heart and the Spirit is the one that is watching you, is the kṣetra-jña, as called as, means he’s the one who is the knower of the field, is the witness within us. He is witnessing us, looking at us, how we are, noticing what we are doing.

The seat of the Spirit is on top of your head, here, the seat. So when the Kundalini rises, first she informs the seat and when the seat is informed, immediately the first manifestation of knowledge comes to you, that you start knowing there is all-pervading power, you start knowing what chakras you are catching, you start knowing what others are catching, you start knowing how to raise the Kundalini and how to give realisation.

The first thing that should happen to you is that physically you should feel all right.

Now she asked me, “How do you cure cancer and how do you cure all these things?” I said “I do not cure, it’s a by-product”. Because when the Kundalini rises, she passes through these centres. Now these centres are placed on this parasympathetic nervous system; and the sympathetic nervous system left and right – the left for our emotional side, and this one for our physical and this one for our mental, this one on one side [the right side] – are acting all the time and in emergency they try to drag the energy from these centres.

When the energy from these centres is taken out, then the centres become constricted, like – I would say – these are the centres here [Shri Mataji join in a circle the left and right thumbs and forefingers] and left and right. But when the centres are pulled out like this [Shri Mataji moves the hands aside], they are made to work too much on the sides and they get exhausted, they get constricted and the deities also sleep off absolutely.

Now the disease starts like that. Diseases are, specially cancer, cancer is started because, when you make them completely constricted, this part or this part [Shri Mataji is indicating the left and right side of the Nabhi chakra], specially this part [Shri Mataji is indicating the left part] becomes absolutely independent and start working on its own. There is no relationship with the whole and the thing becomes on its own, a cell becomes on its own; and when it becomes on its own, it goes on increasing and sort of dominating other cells, that is how malignant is setting.

Now when the Kundalini rises, what she does is to awaken this [Shri Mataji is indicating the Nabhi chakra centre]. By the awakening of this, it gets again its vitality, it becomes normal, it opens up and it gives energy that side and it becomes a normal being.

But the main thing that happens with Kundalini is that, she connects you to the whole, she connects you to the whole, the all-pervading power and by that, all the time, the energy flows within you and you cannot get any disease; because there is no exhaustion.

Also diseases are caused because of imbalances. For example, today I met two people who had liver problem. The liver problem, you’ll be surprised, is caused by over-thinking. It is not caused by anything else but over-thinking. Those people who think all the time – I mean, here people are too organized, I mean, before going to any place, sit down for one hour and organize it. How can you organize anything, if you have to go to an unknown place, what is the use of organizing?

Supposing you have to go from here to some place and you do not know the road, do you fix your (steering) wheel accordingly? I mean supposing you have to turn to the left and you have fixed to the right, will you go to the right?

The way we plan out everything to details and use our brains really we have exhausted the energy of our brains. And people have made it such a crazy thing it does not know what, it is confused.

But the main thing that happens that this centre that is such as an important centre, which looks after our attention and it goes around the whole [Shri Mataji is indicating the Swadishthan and then around the Void], is the centre of creativity; and supplies the energy to all: the liver, then to your pancreas, then to your spleen, and then to your kidneys and uterus. This poor liver has to also convert the fat for the use of the brain, because brain and nerves are made of fat.

And nowadays there is another thing started, that we should not have any fats, because they say that we develop diabetes, or something, is it? But you do not develop diabetes with fat or sugars: what you develop diabetes because of over-thinking.

Again, a man in a village never knows about diabetes, because he doesn’t think.

Now what happens that this chakra which has to do this important work, of converting your fat for your brain, becomes exhausted, it doesn’t look after these major organs within you and you have all these problems. Because if the pancreas goes out of order, then you develop a disease called diabetes.

Then your spleen – is very very important, which people do not know how important it is. Like it comes into play in emergencies; supposing you are eating your food and then you just run off, then it does not know what to do, it starts now pumping more blood cells, first it is working out your digestion, then it has to work out your running about and then you are thinking: so three things you are doing at the same time. That poor, that spleen becomes a crazy spleen. And such people develop a very serious disease, can develop: first become very speedy, extremely speedy, they do not know, they are telescopically moving and they actually move so fast that sometimes they miss everything. But the worst thing that happens to them is the blood cancer, they develop blood cancer, because of this bad… or we should say this crazy spleen.

All such diseases can be easily cured through the awakening of the Kundalini. Cancer can only be cured by Sahaja Yoga, by awakening of the Kundalini. There is no way out. I mean, they can remove your nose, eyes, everything, but they cannot cure your cancer.

Recently I went to Houston. We had about three and fifty people over there, because I cured a multiple sclerosis fellow. Now you will be amazed, most of these left side diseases – as I call them – like cancer, multiple sclerosis, madness and – you can say – this schizophrenic and all these people. This is caused mostly by the people who go to false gurus, who read such books like, about the dead, about the past… all such people get these diseases. Psychologist, who go to psychologists, because psychology is also an unauthorized thing to be done. Psychologist, psychosis and – what are they called as? – analyst, those who analyze you and go into your mind, they have no authority to do it.

Now recently I saw a very nice film about cancer and now the doctors have admitted, that they have seen some sort of protein which attack or trigger, or trigger – this is the word they used – trigger cancer. And these proteins they call as protein-58, protein-59, they have given some names to them… they have even photographed them. And they said, now, that it comes from an area which is there, but it is an unknown area, but built within us since our creation.

Now beyond this point [Shri Mataji is indicating the left side] is our subconscious and beyond that is collective subconscious.

Now if you try to do anything extreme as far as your emotional side is concerned – most of these gurus used this, because they mesmerize you, once they mesmerize you they start throwing you into collective subconscious, then you get possessed. Like mad you are moving, you are recluses… I have seen some people who are even afraid of a garlic, can you imagine?

There is one guru who has created such disciples, they are mostly epileptic and they are afraid of a garlic, if you show them the garlic they start shaking. They are even afraid of a vegetable. I mean, to make a human being into that state is the limit, I should think, one can harm others. So they push you so much into your left hand side, that you become a recluse, you are always crying, you think you must suffer, you must do all the penance and all these things.

Why should you do any penance and why should you suffer?

Christ has already suffered for you. Did He keep anything for you to be suffering. Even Christians believe that they should suffer, it’s most surprising. If Jews believe, I can understand, because they did not accept Christ, so they suffer; in Germany, they did suffer! They said “We’ll suffer, we’ll suffer” for eleven years, they just were suffering and then they had it.

So to believe in such nonsensical thing that we have to suffer is to deny Christ. We should not deny Christ. If we deny Christ means we accept suffering. We have to… They denied because he was a Jew. Now we have many young Jews who have come to us in Sahaja Yoga, who can find it, they can see for themselves that these artificial methods of suffering does not help, it gives you problems, you get sick, you get depressed, you go into problems. And now they are the people, they said “If we are real Jews, we must save Jews from this idea.

Same with Christians, same with Hindus, same with all kinds of people that are getting in this absurd ideas that they must suffer or they must feel guilty or they should be this. This is the left sided problem and then, once you get into the left side, you can go to such a limit that ultimately you end up into epilepsy or into a lunatic asylum. This is the only thing that can happen to you.

Like people would say come and confess. What is there to confess? To whom are confessing? Who has asked you to confess? Where is written in the bible that you have to confess something to a man. It is not written anything. All these things are done because they have organized themselves and they do not know what to do with themselves.

So one has to know that Christ has already suffered for us and that He resides in our Agnya chakra. What was the thing was to awaken Him within us. That is what He said. You have to awaken Christ within us and that can only happen through Kundalini rising. And when He is awakened, He sucks these two institutions there, one is the ego created by this activity of action, and by activity of desire the superego is created. Both these are sucked in and once these are sucked in, then there is an opening and you feel extremely relaxed and the Kundalini opens the all-pervading power or sort of touches it.

Then the all-pervading power starts coming down as he has explained to you, a shower starts coming in.

When it comes down on a sympathetic nervous system here, the chakras also get relaxed. Then again more of the Kundalini threads rise and give you a greater and a greater opening into the all-pervading power.

Now this is what is Self Realisation. It is not just a certificate, that you are realised. You cannot give a certificate and I cannot do it to people who are not true seekers, who are not seeking, who are just still having some fixations about themselves. It cannot work out.

It can only work out in people who are true seekers, who are wanting their Spirit, who have self esteem, who want to have it. It is as simple as that. If you are already fixed with an idea, say, “I am born a Christian”, now I have a fixed idea about Christ or if I am a Jew I have a fixed idea about Judah, if I am a fixed Islam or anything like that… then it does not work out.

You have to see for yourself what is, where and how it works out.

Now if I say there is Christ here [in the Agnya chakra]. Now supposing I say, it could be wrong, yes possibly, I mean I may be telling you lies, possibly. Possibly. There is no reason for Me to tell you lies, but supposing for some reason, maybe I might be telling you lies. Now, how will you make it out? When you, yourself get your realisation, when you raise you Kundalini, supposing it gets stuck here [Agnya chakra], you can feel it. When you raise your Kundalini, you hand will stop there, you will know is not going further. Then you have to say Lord’s Prayer, you have to take Jesus name, otherwise it won’t rise.

For example, if you are against Jews, the Jehovah’s place is here [Shri Mataji is indicating just above the bindi in Her forehead], if the Kundalini stops here because you do not believe in Jehovah, or maybe you do not believe in Moses, then the Kundalini will stop here.

They all have places, all these ten prophets are here: Moses, Abraham, Mohammad, and all these people are here. And you can see for yourself, it is so clear-cut.

Supposing you have been to a wrong guru who has given you diffidence, then you have to say that “Mother, I am my own guru”, it works out. Supposing you have been to a guru who has given you ego. This is, some gurus are like that, they pamper your ego or superego. And you think no end of yourself, you are a great person, you are this and that; then you have to say on the right hand side, “Mother, make me my own guru”. It works out. You will be amazed, the Kundalini will go and pulsate there, you can see with your naked eyes. It is a reality that you should ask for. If you are a real person, how can you be satisfied with something unreal? Because your father and mother were this, all right they were, but do you want to be the same?

You are seekers, born in these modern times to become something great, to become that higher Self. Even if you do not try today, you will try again. You will never be satisfied unless and until you have found out the reality.

So Kundalini awakening is the only way which is the Holy Ghost within us. It rises… they had objection because they said this is a serpent power; now it said serpent because when it moves, it goes like this, it moves like this. Because the movement of any energy shown like that.

But I was amazed at these Greek people, they have got this Athena, which is the Primordial Kundalini they have shown, Athena. “Ata” in Sanskrit mean primordial. Most of their words are Sanskrit. Like for the centre they used the word [..], and [..] is absolutely a Sanskrit word. They told Me this Athena has this power which is like a snake and actually there is a snake in Her hand and she makes with this snakes lots of these chakras. I mean, snake represents nothing but the energy that moves in a wavy pattern.

Now that of course, sometimes it happens in a way – one gentleman told Me that he suddenly got a feeling that Kundalini has been awakened: it never happens like that. This is all done by subconscious, here, the collective subconscious. All these people are trying to mesmerize all the seekers; if they know somebody is a seeker, even in a dream they can come and just make you feel that.

But what you have to expect is collective consciousness, you have to become that. If you have not become that, then you should not be satisfied with these experiences or sensations. Sensations is not the way. You have to be the master, is the point. Now you get a sensation, for example you get a sensation of any kind, what is the use? You do not know anything about it, it is just a sensation, like an electrical shock. You see a villager comes to a city and he puts his hand into a plug and he says “Oh God, electricity is horrible!” You get this sensation from there.

Because these people are not holy people, they are un-holy people, they are no right to touch the Kundalini. The deity who is sitting here which is the embodiment of innocence, this deity, it tricks in a way that the sympathetic goes into action. Such people even get blister, complete blister from the body, they get burn in them, heat in them, all sort of things. Because those people who have no authority to touch… even, I mean they, do dirty things like touching your private parts, I mean, how can you do like that?

That is a Holy Mother, how can you do such dirty things? There are gurus who are teaching that sex can take you to God, how can it be? Animals will go there first, before us. If you believe in such absurd things, it is absolutely insulting to your own being.

We are not sex points Are you sex points? We should ask ourselves “We are illused by these gurus to a sex-point level”. We must have our self esteem and understand that we are not sex points. We are not sex points.

Neither the Kundalini awakening can take place because this is the centre which is below it looks after the pelvic plexus, which looks after the excretion and the sex. Sex is to be used in a sacred way, in a married life and all that; but the idea of exploiting sex is going to make us mad. Really it will make us mad. No wonder people are suffering from impotency, all kinds of diseases and madness and confusion. They have gone off their head!

How long are you going to live like this? You must understand the proper purpose of everything, because once you start using your sex through your brain, you see people think about sex more than they can do it. Because the position has removed from here [Mooladhara], it goes from here [Swadishthan], and then it goes to the brain. And that is why the people are so confused.

We have got Christ before us, who said that “Ten commandments are there that ‘Thou shalt not do adultery’, I say ‘Thou shall not have adulterous eyes’”. Because He is born there, near the eyes. Why He said that? Because He knew this will happen, that people will start using their eyes for sex.

But what is this joyless sex? It has no meaning. You go on moving your eyes all the time, your attention is finished, and without the attention, how are you going to reach to your Spirit? Your attention has to become the Spirit. Or I would say, the Spirit must enlighten your attention. That means in your central nervous system. Whatever you have achieved in your evolution is in your central nervous system, in the same way Spirit starts manifesting, you start feeling that.

Now the physical side I have told you, also the emotional side, the other side. If you get your realisation, your emotional side also gets all right. When you get your enlightened, the darkness goes away, all these possessions go away and you feel all right. We have, I mean I do not know how many people we have cured who are really lunatic, who were really lunatic.

The other day in Norwich, there were three people sitting before Me and they were doing like this and like that [Shri Mataji imitates shaking] and so I said “What of sort of people you are? What’s the matter? Who has been your guru?”. They said “We went to one guru” they told Me the name. “But the advantage of those gurus was that we landed to a lunatic asylum and we are certified mad people”. I said “Really? Then why did you come here, to Me?”. He said “You have cured one of our friends who was in lunatic asylum, who was suffering from lunacy”. And he belongs to a guru who takes three thousand pounds for putting one spirit into you”. And these three people, poor things, they got all right and I hope, next I go, they will bring more certified lunatic people to get all right.

Because we are fantastic within ourselves, our Spirit is a fantastic thing. When it starts manifesting, we really become such a balanced personality, such a great personality, that what we are. But we have to know that we have to become that. We should not accept a position where we do not know where we are going. It is not darkness, it is light!

You should know each and everything, you should be able to monitor everything and you should be able to do it for others.

Now the time has come, some people might say that “How is it? Self realisation was meant for one or two people”. It is true. At the time of Rama, his father in law, Janaka, gave realisation to one fellow called as Nachiteka; but this was 8000 years back.

Today the time has come, the blossom time has come and everybody has to get realisation. It is a Mahayoga. Sahaja Yoga has become a Mahayoga, is a great yoga. It is true that he saw those 6000 people getting realisation, it’s a fact, no doubt. I mean, if we had more people, we had would have given to them, but intellectuals take time to come to Sahaja Yoga.

In London, it was – I mean, I must say Vancouver is much better than London – it took Me four years to crack seven English brains; of course I managed somehow. After that… now we have thousands, but in the beginning I had given up hope, because so much thinking, so much.

This is beyond thinking, it is beyond thought. Because you think to your rationality which is a limited vehicle; you have to be triggered into the unlimited. You cannot think it out and go there; it has to work out beyond thinking. But then logically you can understand everything, logically you can feel everything and the greatest thing that you have the discrimination power.

Now if supposing Christ appears before you, how will you recognize? is there a way? Supposing God appears before you, how will you recognize? Is there a way? Only way would be when you get this vibratory awareness, you can feel it, people can feel it.

One day, I had gone to Kashmir and I was with My husband, we were going in a jungle, absolutely there was no one, complete wilderness. And suddenly I felt tremendous vibrations around, so I asked the driver I said, “Is there is any temple here, is there any place like that of worshipping?” They said “No no, it is just wilderness and there is nothing here”. I said “Just find out, let’s go this way!” and I asked him to turn the car and we went round and round. “And there?” “Oh yes, there is some Muslims staying here” and we asked the Muslims “Is there any temple here?”. They said “No but there is one big Mosque” I said “Which Mosque is this?” He said “Asraghbhal” means there is one hair of Mohammad, in that place.

Now, I was the only person who knew what it was, the rest of them were just fighting for it, that’s all. They had no idea of what it was, what sort of vibrations they were, whether it was true or not, did it belong to Mohammad sahib or not.

So you get the discrimination by understanding anything that you want to know: you can find out by this new awareness that you develop. And then you do not depend on anything, you just depend on this new awareness. It is so remarkable, you can’t imagine, is so remarkable.

Two days before, Mr Hugo – who is now picturing Me – was in Houston, they were facing one gentleman who has been to own guru; and he and another Sahaja yogi, both of them started this finger [right forefinger], all the time shaking like this. So they came and they said, “Mother, now, this is too much, this fellow was so bad and we should have not caught up anything from him and we caught up from him and now is all shaking and we are having a bad time”.

I said “All right, doesn’t matter, we’ll work it out”. So we asked the name of the guru and all that and we gave them a bandhan and we… (somebody asks Shri Mataji to get closer to the microphone) and we just worked it and it stopped and the fellow felt all right. And it worked out, it worked out with him and they also felt better with their fingers.

It is so remarkable, you can’t imagine. It is very remarkable, you all can become that.

Dr Warren, has he told you, he came from India with his friend that, you see, of course I do not have any ashram there or anything so far. I go to villages and villages are very difficult to move about, because sometimes you have to go by bullock-carts and things like that and he wanted to come with Me. And I told him that “It is not going to be easy for you, but it it’s all right”. But he managed to come with Me and then he saw that simple people get realisation much faster, he saw for himself. He came just to judge and find out things and he saw for himself.

As far for a person who is a holy person is concerned… he does not understand money much, cannot understand much money and, I mean, you can’t pay for it. It is something so absurd if we think “We can pay for God, we can pay for everything”. It is ego, I think that we think we can pay for it. How can you pay for Love? How can you pay? It is insulting. All right, this hall you can take, you can pay for this hall at the most, but you pay for the hall, but not for vibrations, for your realisation. You can’t pay for it.

These people cannot understand, you see they think everything is to be paid for.

I mean, how much did you pay for Christ?

Is there anywhere, anywhere in all these scriptures, whether Hindu, English, Muslim, any sort of thing, did you hear that these great people have lived as parasites or other people selling their religion? Did you find anybody saying that?

Nobody can say that they took money and they organized themselves and lived on the money of others. They are parasites, those who take money from you.

Now there are Lamas, these are coming now. I do not know if they have come to Canada. But they have come up to London and they have told people that “You must make a floor of marble otherwise they cannot come”. I mean, imagine, holy people are not like that.

Now this life I am born in a very rich family and my husband is well to do, I mean we live with style and everything. But to Me does not matter, I can sleep anywhere, I mean, to Me does not matter, comfort does not come in My mind at all, I do not know what it is.

But if these people want this thing and that thing, so particular material thing, then you must know that they cannot be holy people. Such people cannot be holy. You see, such a person is a king by itself. As we say the Bhacchha, he’s the emperor. He’s above all these material things, is above all these material comforts and.. this greed and things… if I have to buy something I just buy because I have to give to others. Only I think matter has one value that you can express your love through it, that’s all, there is no other value it has got. If we cannot express your love through matter, it is useless. It is a useless thing, that’s all it is.

And that is how one must to know that the life style of these people, the way they live, the way they behave is so absurd, it’s so absurd. But still people are stuck with them.

(A person adjusts the position of the microphone)

Can you hear me now? It’s alright, what can I do? You see I don’t understand electricity. I understand Kundalini but I do not understand electricity.

Somebody told Me “Mother, why you of all the persons have to do it?”. I said “Please, do it! I would be very happy if you can do it!” I would like to retire. But, I mean, I do not know about electricity, but I know about Kundalini. What is there to feel bad? If you know something and I do not know anything, it is all right. If I know something, why should you feel bad about it?

If Christ said he was the Son of God, why should they feel bad about it? He was, what can He do?

Supposing He was, what should we have done? I am tactful, I am not going to say anything like that, you’d better discover about Me. But whatever I am, I will be, what can I do about it? I mean, why should you feel bad that, if I can raise your Kundalini, what should be to feel bad about it? You can also raise the Kundalini of another person.

For example, people might feel jealous of a person who gets realisation: there is nothing to be jealous, all of you can get realisation and become the Spirit! Because you are that beautiful thing, you are that, you are the Spirit; you have to just be connected, it is very simple, it will work out and sure it will work out with you people.

Now because the time is so short and I came, we may have some little questioning and then we should have the session, because that takes little time on the first day. And the third thing I have to tell you that expansion of Sahaja yoga is easier, but consolidation is difficult. You will get your realisation, all right, we will start, but it’s like a seed. Then you will have to little bit consolidate it. At least for about 7/8 days you have to consolidate it.

Now we have no centre here, we have no way of contacting you, just now. But we are trying to get somebody within a weeks time we’ll have somebody here placed permanently forming a centre for you, who look after you. You have to give your address to us, so that the growth and the consolidation can be worked out and that you can, yourself, become empowered with it and that you can yourself manage it by yourself, and you all become your own guru. This can be done very easily, it is not a difficult thing and it can be managed and that is why I have decided to get somebody here from, maybe Australia, we might get somebody here and that person can start this for you.

After that you can yourself manage the whole thing.

If there is any question, if there is please ask Me.

(May I have some water?)

I am sorry for this [the microphone], but this is not my mistake, the one who was organizing should have done it. (laughs) Again organize it! Now it is too close. All right? (Now give Me some water)

Question: Collective unconscious, he is wondering where you got the phrase from.

Shri Mataji: Oh, I have learned it from one of you. Actually in Sanskrit, it is another word which is called as Viashti, in Sanskrit. You see, I never knew English language, in this time life I have only picked up this and I read some Jung and I read some things to find out, because Jung was a realised soul. And I got it from him that he calls as collective unconscious, but in Sanskrit language it is called as Supta-achitar. There’s a word for it. I mean it is already there, but I do not know where he got it translated, that we should ask Jung about it. But that is the collective unconscious becomes conscious. I am saying collective consciousness, the unconscious becomes the conscious. You see, because he found out these symbols which were universal, so it is he who said that… I mean, by science, we can say by psychology he has proved that there is a collective unconscious, which we have to find out. He prepared the stage, quite all right. But I do not know how many Jungians are going to jump onto the stage. You see, you have to jump onto it, if you just stick on to those ideas, you see he talked of the unconscious, I am talking of the conscious. All right? Jung was great, I must say he was great, but he is not so much respected anywhere as he should be.

Question: he said those who came tonight came because they are seekers, will they be able to have the experience tonight.

Shri Mataji: they should, they should. I am going to work it out. They should.

Now it is all right.

Yes, my child.

Question: is this experience getting stronger and stronger as you practise?

Shri Mataji: you see before realisation you do not have to do anything, just nothing has to be done, it just works spontaneously, only if you have to place your hands towards Me, it works out. But after that you must know that the Kundalini though, the first thing it just rushes out and opens it; but then it comes back and supplies the other centres which require attention and you must know what centres are requiring. You should know about all these things, you should know how you should give attention to these things. And all is very simple, you can do it. You just feel the all thing, you feel just that this centre is catching, that centre is catching; and when you know how to clear it out, you just clear it out. And it improves gradually very much, no doubt.

So we are going to establish a centre for you, here, I hope to do it within a weeks time, I hope so.

Yogi: To specifically answer your question, Mother is going to give the experience tonight.

Shri Mataji: very true, very true.

Yogi: She just wants to get questions out of the way, so that mental activity can be reduced.

Question: how often each day do you practise it and what is involved?

Shri Mataji: no, no, no. There is nothing like rules and regulations about it, you see there are no rules and regulations. It is as it is. What happens is that, you see, to cleanse yourself, every evening we have to do little footsoaking, we do it. You see, just to cleanse yourself in the water, because water element is a very good thing, which you will know; it is very simple how you do it. And then in the morning time we, just before going out, you have to give a sort of protection like this [Shri Mataji shows the bandhan] to your own aura; because it is flowing from your hands.   So it does not involve you much, you live a very normal life, actually become really normal. And it is not necessary do it that way, but if you want to do it, I mean any time you are there, you don’t have to meditate, you are in meditation, all the time, because you become a witness, everywhere you are in meditation, it’s fine.

There is no involvement of that kind at all. It is such an experience that you do not have to get involved into it, but you start enjoying it, that’s all!

Question: Does the day of Pentecost and the tongues of flames and so on that were referred to in the Bible, have anything to do with it?

Shri Mataji: Absolutely. I will appear before you like tongues of flames, you see the tongues of flames are there. Absolutely, you see, it is all explained. You see, my father – who was a very learned man – told Me “Without realisation you can’t understand Christ at all; neither, nor Bible”. So I said “Why especially?”. “Because” he said “Bible is written in a very mystic way. The reason was, at that time, the people were not at all prepared and they had to say things in a mystic manner and they shortened the whole thing”. Because, I mean, whatever Christ did, was only a three and half years work, you see; in that time, He had to fight with these disciples, because they could not believe Him, they were fishermen, how could He tell them about these things? They could not believe Him till He got resurrected, can you imagine? And then they believed, they still fought quite a lot. I mean, they are quarrelling as to the Immaculate Conception… very difficult people, very very difficult. John was the simplest of all, I tell you, very difficult, his revelation has a lot of sense in what he says. These people have just said what they saw, but part of it and part of it they have missed… I do not know how far they have understood, whatever it is, but it is true, this is what they said of the Tree of Life, is this Tree of Life.

Lots of things are there, but in a very mystic manner, but all that thing opens out, because once you get the key you know that. So many things. Best was, I must say, a very great poet, William Blake, was a real prophet, because he has talked of Sahaja Yoga; He said that England will be Jerusalem – now really in England; now I have been together for about 12 years; that the first light will be lit in [..] Hills where I stayed first, then our ashram is in Lambeth way and it is in ruins, absolutely in ruins so. It is written that foundation will be made in the ruins in Lambeth way. Then he said that in those days, “Men of God will become prophets and the prophets will have powers to make others prophets.” This will be the speciality of those days. So beautiful in the book Milton, called Milton it is written this.

I must say that such a modern poet like him has seen these things through and has prophesized most surprising,

One of your.. I think she was an American lady who was prophesizing, she prophesized about My birth and all that… most surprising, Jean Dixon “Mother will be born in India” she said in 1924, I am born in 1923.

I mean, so many things like that have happened. But despite all that what is the best is not to believe anyone, but to believe yourself, that is the best way, it is. And no use having blind faith, no use, better have it.

Question: what is the way of telling what is true and what is false, in terms of all the literature and all philosophies and all the writings. What is the in which you can tell the truth from falsehood?

Shri Mataji: First of all, you see, you cannot judge so rationally, but logically you can find out who is a true master, like, we can say, Khalil Gibran. Khalil Gibran is, no doubt, because he talks of the meeting, not of the suffering, but of the meeting, of the joy and everything. Like that you can judge it logically, a little bit.

A person who is realised will just feel the vibrations of the book, immediately. I mean, they will just not look at it and run away, you just feel the heat. Sometimes you get blisters from some books, you will be amazed, some books give you blisters. The other day we went to a library, because they had a library in that church, united church and I ran away from there, I said “There are no good books in this, only one or two are there” [..]. You can get blisters also from them.

So you will yourself know, once you get your realisation, you yourself can judge it.

Question: he has read about Kundalini, but he also had an experience in which he felt energy above his head and in the literature, it refers to certain chakras above his head, he is wondering if it is Kundalini which he experienced in this energy above his head.

Shri Mataji: you will see, when you see your Kundalini, all right? Whatever it is you will see that, what happens. Kundalini is actually in that state, but on your head is Grace, is the Crown; from the Crown it comes down. The Grace around us, you see, the all-pervading power comes down as grace. But Kundalini has to rise and you have to be collectively conscious and we can feel that, we will find out.

But whatever it is, you should get your realisation and fix it up for yourself and you will know everything, all right? That is very important. There is nothing unknown in Kundalini yoga, which is the real Kundalini yoga, where you become the Spirit, then nothing is unknown, you know everything. You have no doubts left about it, you can find out everything. That is what should happen to you. In any case, whatever it is will see. I mean, I know all the permutations and combinations somehow. All right, now should we?

I would request all of you to you to come a little further, it would be a good idea.

Yogi: Come right up to the front if you would because Mother can see you clearly…

Shri Mataji: Now, we are all wearing shoes, but if you could take out for a little short time would be help us, because this Mother Earth is very helpful some times, for a little short time, maybe it might work out better. Is it very cold down below? Is it?  You can put your feet on the shoes, you can take out, because it grips on your feet a little bit. Just put on the shoes. I mean what I am saying… yes, just, yes. Also the shoes you know, there are some times the belts are very tight. If they are very tight, you can loose them a little, it helps. Of course there is nothing physical, but…

Now, all of you have to do it, because it is not proper some people you see just think they can do what they like, it is not proper, is not being just or fair to us and to all others. Because even if there is one person of that kind of a thing that he drags because it is a collective happening, is a collective happening.

So if you are not interested you can go away, but if you are interested there is nothing but just you have to put your hands opened and close your eyes. That is all you have to do, But if you are not interested it is better that you go, before you disturb others, in a simple way.

Put your hands towards Me like this, all of you and close your eyes, just close your eyes. Be comfortable, be very comfortable, sit comfortably. With hands just like this, like this.

Close your eyes, please close your eyes.

Now you have to put your right hand – keep your eyes closed – right hand on your heart, right hand on your heart. Right hand on your heart on the left hand side, yes, just in your heart, because in your Heart reside the Spirit.

Now you ask the question Mother, am I the Spirit?” You ask within your heart but sincerely. “Mother, am I the Spirit?” sincerely you must ask. Thrice you must ask “Mother, am I the Spirit?”. Ask in your heart “Mother, am I the Spirit?”. Ask this question, it is a very fundamental question (put down [Shri Mataji is referring to the yogi close to Her]). Some of you might get a little bit cool breeze flowing with that, some, not all.

Now you put your right hand, remove it from the heart, put it on your stomach, on the left side, only again on the left side. Left side is peace, in this guru, the left side is peace. Now you have to say, you have to ask Me “Mother, am I my own guru?” Now this you have to ask ten times. “Mother, am I my own master? Am I my own guru?”. Keep your eyes shut, do not open your eyes; it is very important because Kundalini won’t rise above Agnya, if your eyes are open. Little lower you have to put your hand, little lower and say “Mother, am I my own guru?”

Now, without feeling guilty, without feeling guilty, again I say without feeling guilty, you put again your hand on your heart and say “Mother please forgive Me if we have done any mistakes in our seeking, please forgive us” say three times. And do not feel guilty! Feeling guilty is absurd, because I am talking to you about the Ocean of Love, He is the Ocean of Compassion, He is the Ocean of Forgiveness; and whatever little mistakes you have committed should not give you any guilt.

Mmh, better.

Now you have to forgive others, Best thing would be to say Lord’s Prayer, if you know, three times.

Now put both the hands towards Me and say, close your eyes and say “Mother please give Me self realisation”. This you have to ask because this is your freedom, I cannot challenge. Put both your hands, say like this. Like this, as I am showing you. Just put both the hands and say “Please, Mother, give Me my self realisation”. Because you are free. If you do not ask, I cannot force it all. You have to ask for it, I have to respect your freedom. Say three times. [Shri Mataji put Her Sahasrara close to the microphone]

You start feeling the cool breeze in your hands. If you are not feeling that, please put your right hand on the head and see if there is a cool breeze coming or hot, maybe heat. Higher, higher than your head. And just move your hand and see if there is a cool draft coming in. If you have been smoking or something… on top of your head, on top, raise your hand higher. Maybe some heat is coming out.

Keep your fingers straight! Do not bend them or make them stick. Straight. And your neck also straight. Sit very comfortably in a straight manner.

Now put your hands again towards Me, it will work out, it will work out in everyone. You got it!

[Shri Mataji blows in the microphone]


You can see each other also, if you are feeling it you can see others. You can see each other head.

One hand towards Me.

[Shri Mataji works on people]