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Conversation with Yogis, India tour, Niphad, (India), 6 February 1982.
(Shri Mataji has involved the audience in the talk so the whole talk is very informative & interactive):
Shri Mataji: You are better off now?
Shri Mataji: Do you get this Jaggery, the one you ate in London?
Audience: Yes Mother
Shri Mataji: You get in England? I never saw this Jaggery.
Audience: Yes Mother in Indian shops not in English shops
Shri Mataji: In Indian but shops not in English shops.
Audience: Yes Mother.
Shri Mataji: Ha but not in English shops as such.
This jaggery is a very good thing when you come out from somewhere like dusty places or something with sore throat and you take a little bit of jaggery and drink some water. It’s a very good idea. See one should take to simple medicines because if you take to antibiotics and this that nonsense then you become very weak and you have to, it has a reaction and then you have to take something else for the reaction, funny thing, it is antibiotic, it is, bio means life and it is anti life.
People chatting/ Laughing. Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi.
[Cut in the audio]
Sahaja Yogini: ….If there is a relationship between tomorrow’s puja and full moon and so on.
Shri Mataji: Should I have to boast about Myself?
Sahaja Yogis: Yes Mother.
[Laughting ; applause]
Shri Mataji: As you know it is Parabrahma, that is the complete divine Power and the Holy Ghost is the complete divine Power, is the complete desire of God, which has taken a form. Now, imagine God is just a spectator. He is not one who is going to create anything. He is just going to destroy actually. Because if He doesn’t like the spectacle, He can destroy and the desire disappears like any desire you have within yourself. The complete desiring power within you. Without which what are you? You are just watching your desire working it out.
So this desire power is the left-sided thing, as you say, and then first it has to come to desire. The desire becomes then the action power. And action and desire put together start evolving things. So everything is inclusive in that whether you say Sun, Moon, stars everything is in them. But the Moon is the desire. Ultimately when it also collapses back, first of all it works out, it evolves, and then again when it is reversed, you see, then it goes back to desire, desire disappears into the Spectator and the whole thing becomes the Parabrahma again.
So the identification with one or the other cannot be said, it’s everywhere. If It is everything how can you identify with any thing else? Moon is one of the symbols, Moon is one of the symbols. Why? Because according to Sahaja yoga we reach the state where you touch the Sadashiva in the symbolic form, you see. Or if you can say that after getting Realization if you see the abstract forme of God then we say after reaching your Brahmarandhra you cross over your limbic area and then you go to Ardhabindu.
Ardhabindu is the Moon. Moon is the Spirit. Because, Shiva also wears the Moon on his head. Sada Shiva also wears the Moon on His head. So Moon is the spectator. Isn’t it?
Sun is the working part. He works and it reflects on the Moon. So you become the spectator yourself and start going into that. So every symbol is the same and now why we use the Moon more than the Sun, about the timings ? Because it is the Moon which is more effective in creating desire within ourselves.
Like the Moon affects even the sea, not the Sun. Sun is a constant-stuck practically, except for it changes its axis sometimes, that’s all. And the distances between Sun has not much significance with the Earth, except that if the Earth loses its axis a little bit more or becomes a little bit flatter, then maybe that the speed of the Earth may be reduced. So we can only control the speed.
But the Moon is a subtler thing which acts on subtle, subtler ways. Because you have seen the Moon acts on the tides, it acts on the temperaments, it is a much subtler thing. Desire is much more subtler than the action itself. It’s a deeper thing. So the action comes out of the desire. So it is better to affect the desire than to affect the action. And that is why, in India, people accept Moon as the indicator for dates and all that. But in the west people are so much time-bound that for them they would not like to have these variations, because they are not prepared for any such variations. For them, 12 o’clock is 12 o’clock. And they are very, very rigid people. Such rigid people are no good they are not living being, you see.
So it is not one way or the other. Even Surya – the Sun – is very important. But why the Moon is important because it makes you subtler. And that is why one should achieve the Moon as they say. Right-sided people must achieve the Moon. At least they should be little bit changing their programs, little flexibility otherwise there is no gap in-between.
You see, they are running like mad, absolutely! It’s a rat race. The whole ego is created by the Sun. Complete horrible nonsense. It is doesn’t give them any idea to see where are they. Its such a barrier, you see. We don’t try to see ourselves where are we.
Now you have seen the simple villagers who live so spontaneously. Just take yourself out completely and think: Compared to them and yourself and what are we? As a human being, as a quality of a person, quality intrinsic. I mean one may think any thing of oneself but as a quality.
Like Christ Himself has said, that if you want gold I will give you gold. Gold represents right-sidedness. If you want gold I will give you gold but you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven and you will not eat on the same table as I do. Only those who love Me, love Me, again the quality of love, will sit with Me to eat. So, the people who think no end of themselves should value themselves at some point you see. They should see what do we think of ourselves, you see. What is so great about ourselves, what are we in the eyes of God. All these things are going to be finished. They are nashwar. They are perishable. You are admiring perishable things and thinking that you are great, all right so go ahead with yourself. But one has to go with some thing not perishable. And actually I would say that the western people start taking to Moon calendar they will be better off. They will have some more time and they will think of auspiciousness, you see. In India it is very important to know what is the auspicious time. But what we think of is “oh 10 o’clock is 10 o’clock” like a teacher who is here now principal sahib. He is a Brahmin, suppose to be. Englishmen, I think, must have put the hand on him, on his head. He said if the program is at 6 or no. Now there are children there who can’t just do it at 6 it has to be done at 7. He doesn’t know any of the children don’t get the blessing or any thing but as long as it is at the time of 6 o’clock. And the time is short. What have you achieved by worshipping the time to that extent. You have neglected the one who is sitting on the Sun is Jesus Christ Himself. He is at the [Unclear word] crossing point the [Unclear word]. You have neglected all that is subtle. Whatever you can see in the Sunshine is the fact for you people. Nothing beyond. In the west I mean. Isn’t it? It’s not true.
Moon has such an influence. I read a book called as Super Nature. You might have read it also. The fellow is been dealing with some scientific experimentation. He said there were some oysters. The oysters were placed in Los Angeles, you see. So they remove them and put them to some Ohio or some place in the center of America. Now there is no sea there for those oysters but they used to close and open according to the tidals at Los Angeles for a month. From them you could make out what is the tide in there. Then gradually they started changing and then they took to the timing of opening and closing if the Moon at that time was pulling the tides of a sea which doesn’t exist there in Ohio. As if there was a sea and the Moon would come in and would attract this sea, accordingly these were opening and closing. Because when there is high tide they close and when there is low tide they open. So with that timing they were working. So, the living things have such an effect of the Moon.
So, I think Indians should become more sort of active, though they are, I think, quiet active now and they should not do any more activity. Otherwise they will become rajo- gunnies not satva-gunis. Only rajo guna is no good and only tamo-guna is not good. And if you become too much rajo gunnies also what happens you get to the bad effects of Moon, then you become lunatics and what paranoid and otherwise all these things come to you and you go up to that because you take to drugs all extreme left-sided stuff is from the Moon.
Auspiciousness comes from not only from the Sun but also from the Moon. Mainly from the Moon and also from the stars. Auspiciousness is a very subtle quality. Isn’t it? Which you cannot see. You cannot understand. How many people in the west also accept astrology has any basis, not much. Even William Blake is regarded as a mad man. Ninety-nine percent English think like that. They are all very wise. You tell them who William Blake is, “Oh he is a mad man”. For them that horrible fellow Lord who….?
Shri Mataji: ….Byron! … was the most sensible person. Now how could, imagine hundred years back how could William Blake say so many things so precisely.
Shri Mataji: You haven’t brought that ha? No body has brought that!
Audience: some body might have
Shri Mataji: Have you got? William Blake, Milton. (Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi). Can you go? Do you know where it is written Kensington garden thing?
Audience: Marcus has got it
Shri Mataji: Hai? Marcus knows. Into such details you see. And then think of this man 2000 years back writing about Me that Para Brahma Itself will be arriving, awakening (Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi). Exact! 2000 years back. A new method of yoga will come up, everything being there, just imagine.
So, the people who believe in the Sun and the timing with the Sun, you see live in the bounds of the Sun only and also the bound of the what you call the time, which is so superficial. They never think of inauspiciousness of something deeper. Their full attitude is so superficial. Whatever they see in the Sun they see nothing beyond. Normally, people who come say from abroad not Sahaja yogis because now you have become subtler, what will they see in a country and a place, “Oh God, there are no proper bathrooms”. I mean they are so bathroom addicted also. I don’t know but this bathroom culture is so much just get fed up and now for so many nonsensical thing so much time is wasted you see, we know that they should be house proud but to the extent people waste their time cleaning their little brass what ever they have, even a rat doesn’t enter the house. Sometimes I think what a waste of energy. But when they think that way they become so untidy that they baba it’s a pigsty, from one to another. It is something in-between one has to understand. Even to have culture you have to be in-between. Like, you must know the Sun and you must know the Moon. You must have both the things otherwise there will be no culture in it.
Culture cannot develop in an extreme state. Some sort of an extreme thing might develop you see, but not the culture and the culture is the thing which supports and sustains the dharma, sustains a human quality. That is the culture. Not the culture which does not sustain, that like, somebody told Me that it is in western culture that the women must expose themselves more than the man can, man can. I mean that’s absurd. Why should they? Just think of it. Are they prostitutes or what? But who is going to talk if I say any thing, as it is they are criticizing Me. Then they will oh, brand me something Victorian lady coming down here or something. You see the way they are giving you the idea also through this over activity of the right side are absurd ideas. They will not give you a quality that a human being should have, you see, there is no value for your life no value and no self-respect. They don’t teach you self-respect.
It’s a tremendous task you don’t know the whole thing has to change a world. When has to come to change this. You understand Ruth?
Ruth: Yes Mother
Shri Mataji: It’s a very trem.., great work one has to do in that country, I don’t know. As it is, you see, people when they come to India or anything, they come to see here the poverty of India. I mean that’s not your look out. That’s the government’s job. But they come here for that and they they get upset with it and they just go. What are you doing about it even if you are upset? It’s because of you only people are poor. If you go and live with somebody for three days, the person will become poor. Three hundred years you stick on to any country what are you going to have? Three hundred years! The aggressiveness. Look at the aggressiveness. In your country somebody comes for more than six months he will be taken to task and put in the jail (unclear talking/laughter) Three hundred years you lived there. I mean, just look at yourself, what sort of temperament is this? Your aggressiveness. How can you be? Is it a self-respecting thing to go to somebody’s country? Even now they are doing the same thing you don’t know. Still so much aggression is there, that unless and until you Sahaja yogis understand that this is too much of an aggression in all the developing countries. What have you done to [unclear].
All the western people have. [unclear] Think about it. West Africa, you see, East Africa because they have got copper in West Africa all have them have gone sitting on nicely. I mean this is not your copper. Why do you want to have their copper? Zambia, every place you go all the white skin people are there otherwise the Negroes are the worst because the copper is there. South Africa, why are you there? I mean you have nothing to do with South Africa, you better get out. Because gold is there they think they have a right to be there. I mean imagine, thing of this, imagine if there are two neighbors, think of it, two neighbors are living because another person has bought some gold so you go to his house and settle down take all his gold. It is as simple as that. You have no right to snatch any thing form any one.
This is because of the worship of the Sun the aggression. They don’t see. In Sun you can’t see any thing actually. Your eyes are too lucent? [unclear]. It’s a serious thing. One has to think. Now Sahaja Yoga is all right you are built up and you are coming up but you have to understand and ultimately you will destroy yourself, which you are up to. If the third world breaks out, thanks to your intelligence. India is not going to be affected. All the developing countries are not going to get affected. I mean what is the culture behind. There are some limits to the things also.
The movement of Sahaja Yoga in the West is so slow I mean, as if it is a train moving here, there an ant walk – crawling. Really it’s a fact. Only Australia is the one which I have real hopes. I must say. And now the Australians will have the to send all the criminals from Australia to England to [unclear].
This is the situation. At least poor things Australians are still thinking in not those lines. At least Australians have never invaded any country. They have never invaded any country. Never in the history, I have not heard of them invading any country or occupying some country or going to some place for gold. They are racialist, some of them are but they are not so aggressive as to go and settle down in a country for three hundred years, can you believe it? And they would not go, would not go at any cost, very difficult. Think of it some guests coming in your house and settling down for three hundred hours.
Will you read that Kensington garden thing. Who is there? Is it here? Read it out, that part of Kensington garden the part “..will be purchased” that one. It is an Englishmen who wrote this but for them he is mad, really I tell you. I have talk to some English people who are in the high [unclear], who are supposed to be very well educated and top class people and they say he was a mad man whom are you quoting.
[Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi]
Golden Builders! They have to work with the gold paint. They are in My house. So they are called as Golden Builders. So clearly he has given, so clearly.
Audience: Sweden born 16th century scientists who become a linguist [Unclear] he said that, the other day I heard that there were many Indians and Muslims, Black and Chinese in Heaven but there would be very few western European
Shri Mataji: There would be or?
Audience: That include American. In the heaven there would be very few westerners So does India leads the way [unclear], does leads the way or you just making gesture?
Shri Mataji: You see, you must learn one thing, that those who have got the qualities of the heart, think definitely will be accepted by God. Isn’t it? Have you got the qualities of heart? Not at all. Then what will God do? That’s the problem is.
Audience: Will we be eliminated?
Shri Mataji: (Laughs). Not as long as I can think of it. I can’t think of elimination of any one. But, you see, if you don’t take to Sahaja Yoga at all, what should we do? You decide. Should we carry all these Yankees to heaven?
Shri Mataji: There won’t be a heaven left. That’s the point. Just think about it. You see they accent in life is on war. Where is our ascent is the main point. You see our westernized Indian are also doomed. Very sad thing but they are also doomed. They think no end of themselves. No doubt westernized. But now I would say Dr Sanghvi who has been to Canada for years he has stayed there. He has kept his Indian style of life as well, chastity his own senses of understanding of things, everything is just the same. Can you make out he is such a learned man inside. He has got a special honor. He was honored on all India bases for creating a new type-variety of wheat. That wheat is after his name. So humble can you believe it. Such a man is sitting before you. Even a garbage cleaner in England is more proud. Yes, I tell you, even a garbage cleaner is a horrible stuff. You can’t deal with it. Did I tell you the story of a garbage cleaner who came to our house. We were staying in Oxted. There was a garbage cleaner who used to come and carry the garbage, you see. So one day we had a big party or something and we had lots of garbage in the house so I told him “you please take away this” so he said “how much will you give me”? I mean not suppose to take any money. You see, but he said “how much will you give me”? How much? I said I will give you about ten pounds. He said “ten, I wouldn’t touch it [unclear] Give me twenty pound”. I said “twenty pounds is too much”. This I am telling you long time back about six years back or so. So, Dr Nagendra Singh, who is now the Chairman, chairman of the what you call Royal Court Judges. He is the Royal Court Judge first of all and he is the chairman of it, he was in the house imaging Royal Court Judge. So he saw this man talking to Me very rudely so he just couldn’t help it and he came out. He is a Sahaja Yogi also. Came, you see, came out and he said “why are you talking so rudely”. He said “I wont touch this garbage for ten pounds”. He said that. He said that “you are not supposed to take any money”. He said the laws in England are not like India. You must understand some law. You don’t understand any law. And he gave a big lecture on law. To whom? To the World Judge court, who is the chairman. Without any sense of, and I was amazed. You know first I was amazed then I started laughing aloud; I said “to whom is he talking”? Brainless fellow! I just [unclear]
Just think of it, I mean, I leave it to you to decide now. You better decide about the western people. I don’t decide. That garbage cleaner, I mean, must be, I don’t know. And the quality of life there is so poor they have, very poor, they have no self-respect, the way they are. The other day the lady, that Philipa [Pullar], has written this book.* In which she says I have been having affairs with bus conductors this that I mean, how can, how can you publish a book on such a woman, just tell Me, and she is openly saying all these things. I wouldn’t care for Sahaja Yoga I was doing all my things very nicely. Oh very good, has no self-respect, at all, no value for chastity, nothing I mean I just don’t know there is no quality in them. It’s very depressive. Isn’t it some times? I think you better take to Moon. Ruth are you all right? Isn’t it a very sad thing? Don’t you think so? Gregoire has been asking Me since long: Mother have you ruled out all the western people?
Audience: Mother, is there somebody in there who could ? apart, because I can’t seem to find a place
Shri Mataji: Marcus! He might be able to see, Marcus just see yours
Audience: Mother, I am speaking on behalf of parents from Australia, for children place [unclear sentence]. We would like to have a school Sahaja school and we are not sure how to go about setting this school up and what is needed as curriculum and the needs of the children.
Shri Mataji: Yes. I mean, this is what you have been tell Me now. Do you think they will accept Me in a school there? You tell Me, this is not possible, they will have to make a school here. Isn’t it?
Audience: You can have a private school. Have a private school in Australia
Shri Mataji: In Australia?
Audience: You can have any ideology alike
Shri Mataji: Really? Better start
Shri Mataji: Just think of (tape sounds edited)
Shri Mataji: What nonsense they are teaching to our small children there you see. They are attacking innocence in every way you see the whole culture is to attack the innocence, have you noticed it? Horrifying I tell you, I feel horrified. Because you see I cannot think like Eastern – western nonsense but what I feel are you are my children. That’s the place, which is created by God. (Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi)
They are thinking of starting a school in Bombay in any case. I have already asked somebody to give Me the curriculum and all that and they said we can have an English medium school here. English medium that’s all. You can have for children and I am already finding out about the thing. We have already got the land surprisingly and government may give us grant next year or something like that and build up some thing nice here. So to begin with, we can have some children from there and some young people to come and teach so they learn how to teach Sahaja Yoga plus other things you see. You can have something to begin with and then you can go back and start your own schools there. It would be much cheaper to educate them in India but the children will have to be away from parents but what the parents and children can come together here and do something about it. What ever you think now. It is for you decide. In any case I am going to start the school. London is impossible for children. Absolutely impossible for children. I can tell you. There is no possibility of keeping them in any where pure, the television, the, every road is filled with dirty advertisement it’s all fully immoral you know. Every day if you lift the newspaper you will see such horrible things that you will think you are in hell and children see everything every day how will you, it’s an attack on their innocence, all the time, horrible thing are going. Horrible things.
One boy was killed in Maharshtra. (Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi) last four five months back. I don’t know when he died, about one little boy, can you imagine one little boy and what happened actually was the man was looking after his farm and they use a kind of a called as go fund tunra (unclear marathi word) like that they have some sort of a stone put in a one rope like thing, you see, when you move it, it has its own centripetal force- centrifugal force and with that they hit, so the birds run away, and a little boy was playing there, was something he entered into the field and he didn’t see him and he got this thing and when he got hurt, he saw the child was running. He ran after the child and he found that the child had really died by that time. He got so frightened that he hid the body of the child, in a sort of, he dug it out and put it there but the body swell up, and the body came up, the police found it out after two three days of search and the all over the places you see such a big news about this little boy being lost, this that, big such that the whole of Maharashtra, can you imagine one little boy, millions and millions of people. How many children disappear and then this fellow has to confess and he told the police, you see. For one little boy the whole country got together and started working it out. The police force came and all the police was working out for the little boy. Because the little boy is more important than an old man or a young person. How is it the child is, the insecurity is there, what happened. I mean, in America, I don’t think you can sit outside like this, in America. You will be robbed. I mean, they all told us, don’t go in any of these parks after six o clock. Even in front of our house in London, Marcus told Me only a lady was mugged in the daytime. You remember Marcus? You came up one day and told Me that a lady was mugged in front of Westminster. Just imagine. In the daytime, in the daytime. And you all find drunker sitting here and there, everywhere. Here do you find anywhere?
Audience: Mother what about making a film of India, because in our countries, what they show of India is, of people dying in the street and poverty and people can’t realize the beauty of this country. So what about…
Shri Mataji: They will never believe. Try, I mean, try everything. That’s the trouble with them. You are happier people, definitely. And people don’t die like that. You see, if there is a famine or something, they take this ancient picture and show. I have seen. I have censored one picture India 1972 or 1973 it a no it’s a 1965. I have censored that thing here you see, which one Englishman produced or so, in combination with a Frenchman or so, or some group, and they took out from somewhere, we have never seen such scenes they show, and when the government objected to that, they smuggled this thing out. I don’t know from where, they must be paying money to people to take such pictures. I have never seen such a scene. To begin with the scenes is like this, a lady is sitting somewhere and cooking her food and a child is just lying in the waste there, which is never done in India, and a snake comes out, imagine! A snake comes out and the lady is sitting there she takes a stick from the heart hits the snake and start what you call stirring the food, stir, stir food with that stick. I mean, impossible! We never do like that. This is something like that, you see, they have ideas. They are trying to deprive India, they are frightened. I think they are frightened, that people may take to something better and give them up all of them, those who are sitting on the chairs there. Must be that, otherwise I don’t know. They never see the beauty of India. You see, if Indians are generous they think that they are being sort of made a I mean, sort of, they been forced into that I mean great lords, they think they are. They never understand generosity. Actually, the time has come for them to finish off with this kind of arrogant thing, that they have within themselves, and they think no end of themselves.
Shri Mataji: You better tell Me. It’s a very difficult situation isn’t it. You all are thinking people you better think on these lines and desire for it. I can only give fulfill your desires but I don’t know what desires you can ask for. That’s why take to Moon so the Moon will work it out.
Audience: Mother, could we come back to the subject of the school in Australia.
Shri Mataji: Hai? What is it?
Audience: The subject of the school in Australia. It’s related to our own development isn’t it really! Because as it now stands with we are spending 2 months in India and hopefully we are going to go home a lot stronger. When we go home, we gonna be exposed to all the negativity. Parents should be having their children in school where they have been fed a lot of garbage and a lot of time is devoted to clearing, in trying to maintain situation I am speaking grossly you know rather than developing ourselves. What Ray has said is really a very urgent need for it.
Shri Mataji: Try to do some thing about it. I mean I would love to have something like that. Try to work it out. I will be very happy; I will bless it with my heart. Try to work it out. You see, on my own I can start it here. I told these people in India in England also there is a plot of land, which is available, somebody is willing to give Me there also. But the English people are not happy about it, they said, “Mother don’t have any school, because children will be exposed”, isn’t it? They don’t want, they want all these children to come home. I mean, they are born with that ego atmosphere you see, teething that ego atmosphere. Terrific people. Even children are terrible. Like Linda’s son. Baba, Horrible, you just can’t control them there. I will be very happy if you start the school like that, please, I mean, I will be very happy. When our ashram is done. I mean, when we have proper arrangements for you, people can come down and can work it out, but you see, you should be made so strong that not only that, you should be able to face that nonsense but also create something new, like, you see, you have to become like lotuses in the mud and fight the worms in the mud who think no end of themselves you see, this is difficult. But still, I mean, you just understands the importance.
Sahaja Yogini: Could the Australians bring an Indian teacher down to Australia? To teach the children.
Shri Mataji: You can try but I cannot. Whatever you say, you can try that. It’s worth try I must say! For trying everything. I mean you think of it, put your mind onto that, that would be a much better idea. The whole society, the whole, I mean it’s half of the world. Thanks God, most of the population is in India and in China.
It’s a good idea.
[Shri Mataji speaks in Hindi]
End of tape 1
Sahaja Yogini: If we could come to India to live Mother, bu then it would be crowded here.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Sahaja Yogini: The Indians don’t probably want us too. So we have to do something at home to change it.
[Shri Mataji Laughs]
No, they won’t mind.
You don’t know Indians are hiding even Rajneesh’s disciples in their house. The government is having a bad time and people are angry with the government, why should we treat the guest like this? What do you mean by that. You should tell them they are like this. They say they can’t be like that? They can’t believe human beings could be that stupid.
That man was telling Me all these stories, and the gentleman, who was there, the officer, he told Me, its very true you see, all these Rajneesh’s people who have disappeared from there are in the villages and the villagers are hiding them and they are saying: “Don’t say like that to the guest. You see they will be all right very soon they will be all right.” I mean they are been told that they are immoral people even then they don’t want to believe it. They said: “How can they be? They are wearing this dress. How can they be immoral?”
It’s a big struggle going on. Government won’t be unkind to you if you want to come down here, I am sure.
Whatever we talk. The ideas work out. So we should talk about this.
Ruth? Who is that?
Sahaja Yogini: Mother, I wanted to ask you if you could speak to us more about auspiciousness and the difference with superstitions?
Shri Mataji: Ya.
You see, auspiciousness is only known after you have got Realisation. Before that you don’t know auspiciousness, you see? When the vibrations are the maximum that is the most auspicious time to do anything. Through only vibrations you can know what is the auspiciousness is, isn’t it? In this country of ours, you see, we have so many Realized souls as you know that, that whatever they said people obeyed them and agreed to them, whatever they said they agreed to. Even all that astrology and all that is written by people who are Realized souls in this country. So, naturally it has an effect of that, isn’t it? So the truth is auspiciousness.
Like we saw a small little stone, a stone is coming out of the Mother Earth, you saw that, and the cool breeze was coming out of it, you saw that yourself. That’s a miracle. But only when you are Realized you can see it. Now people never believed. There was an English engineer who could not believe it. But whatever was happening was too much for him to understand also. So one of the saints only told that: “It’s a stone which is a swayam siddha” means it’s a [Shri Mataji talks in Marathi] Swayambhu?
Sahaja Yogi: Swayambhu.
Shri Mataj: Created by itself. It’s a thing which is created by the Mother Earth and you don’t disturb it, you leave it alone. So they have to make a curve around that because they could not put any wall around it, you see, straight forward. So, they had to go round and they had to accept the situation, but very reluctantly. He was so adamant! They were saying that he would not give up. For one year, still he was struggling with it.
The adamance is another point that come with this, what you call “ego”. And he was filling that portion again and again, it would fall down for one year. But then when he saw he could not build it up, he gave up. And he had to go round the place.
But only a saint could tell and the people believed the saint in those days and they knew who was a saint. So the auspiciousness also is understood more by people who live in a country of atmosphere, which is filled with vibrations. I mean India has the maximum vibrations I must say. And specially Maharashtra has the most. It’s a fact. I tell you. It’s a fact. What can you do about it? But it is not that God has favored this place or anything like that. It is the Kundalini. But England is the heart! And what are you doing there? Imaging England is the heart and Europe is the liver. And Greece is the Nabhi. They say so, it is the Nabhi. They already have said it. So it is sort of certifies us. It is said long time back that there’s a navel in that oracle of Delphi.
And it’s very funny thing, you see, how people can live with that kind of thing, in India, rather difficult you know, because the vibrations are so strong that you are punished immediately. People won’t do some things. One of Dhumal’s relations knows for definite that in one place there is lot of gold and silver is hiding there. But this gold according to them, their forefathers had looted from some people before in the war and they won’t open it. They said: “Baba, we don’t want to have, our children will be killed we don’t want to open. We don’t want to take that gold or silver or anything, there will be a curse upon our family. We don’t want to touch that gold because we believe that if you take somebody’s things like that there will be a curse upon us.”
This is auspiciousness, “na”? And superstitions come by people who are not Realized but only want to frighten people. That is superstition. But through a Realized soul whatever comes is real auspiciousness. All right Sharon?
Sahaja Yogini: Mataji, is intuitions a part of wisdom?
Shri Mataji: Of course it is! But intuition for ego-oriented is a very difficult thing. They will say: “I somehow don’t like it.” But what, why? It’s more ego, always mostly ego. It is not easy for people without Realization to get intuition, very difficult. The intuition, that they get, is mostly is ego. You know, it’s too much of identification with ego. Now, the whole of the society is that you are pasted to your ego just like you are stamped off, you see? Like that, absolutely. So, intuition can be quite a confused thing. If they had proper intuitions they would not have gone to such horrible places.
Dr Rustom Banjorjee: Can you explain the phases of the Moon, its significance?
Sahaja Yogini: The significane.
Shri Mataji: All right.
You see, there are fifteen phases as you know and the fifteen phases, and the sixteenth is complete, when it is the sixteen phase it’s a complete phase. So fifteen phases are the fifteen steps of consciousness on which human being is living and the sixteenth is the complete, where you really become just a witness. So you cross the fourteenth then you get your Realization.
So the Moon is never complete till it reaches sixteenth. Then at the sixteenth point [Kalika] it is a complete phase and that’s why it is called that Shri Krishna is complete because he has got sixteen phases, sodaza kala.
Now the first phase as we call it is first and second two phases.
Now all the seven chakras have two phases: left and right. So seven into four- no two (7×2=14) is fourteen phases. Fifteenth is the Spirit and sixteenth is God, which is only absolute state, where it never changes. It remains the same. He’s unsurmountable. He’s above, which is a phase which is not achievable by human beings.
So by coming to Sahaja Yoga, you are moving between twelve and fourteen. How fast the growth has come! Just think of it.
Now, the first phase and the second phase is the time when the matter is created. It’s the first installation of the matter is Ganesha’s phase. And so all the obstructions at that time are covered through Ganesha’s power: Innocence.
Like that, you can see in every chakras how all the obstructions are cleared out.
As the left-side is the Moon, these phases also give you the blessings of the Moon. Now the blessings of the Moon are left-sided as you know. And these left-sided blessings are through auspiciousness, it’s the positive side. One is the positive side is that you get auspiciousness. Auspiciousness is not in your hands; it’s not in your hands. It is beyond.
So you get auspiciousness as a blessing in all the phases. And there are fourteen types of joys which you get out of this, which I just now I need not tell you the names, it is too much. But you can say that ultimately you get a joy which is called niranand- NIRA- ANANDA. Now Nira is My name, you know. My short-form is Nira.
[Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi]
So Nirananda. The joy, is so much that it is completely joy and nothing else, just joy. Purest form of joy. that is what you get at Sahastrara. And then this joy expands it doesn’t improve. Till that, joy improves. And after that it expands.
And that’s why whatever one does according to the lunar system, one does it from the spiritual point of view. I mean, you don’t get any consumer surplus like you get through the Sunshine- Sunlight. That supposing you buy something at this time and sell at another time you might get a big profit.
Sahaja Yogi: Material gains.
Shri Mataji: Material gains. That’s right side.
But you get spiritual gains. That’s why all the spiritual things are to be done according to the Moon. You follow now, Rustom? It’s a very big question One day I will give you a big lecture on that. But I think you have understood.
Rustom: Shri Mataji, why do they have a light phase and a dark phase of the Moon? Shukla Paksha and Krishna Paksha?
Shri Mataji: No, Shukla paksha is the time when the moon is increasing and shukla- Krishna Paksha is when decreasing, so at the decreasing time, it’s not auspicious.
There is no “why” for auspiciousness. It does not happen. Why there is light coming out of the gas, can you explain? Because it is light, but why?
It is so. When the Moon increases then there is auspiciousness because that represents the Spirit, “na”? The more reflection of the Spirit comes in, it is on the increasing side. When it is decreasing, we can say, it is on the decline. Then it is not auspicious. So there is Shukla Paksha et Krishna Paksha.
Sahaja Yogini: Is it because of that, that puja is taking place at noon?
Shri Mataji: What is taking place?
Sahaja Yogis: Puja.
Shri Mataji: You see, I have My own “panchanga” [calendar] I didn’t fix it up. But it just works out that way, what can I do?
Sahaja Yogis: Bolo Jagan Mata Shri Nirmala Devi ke Jay!
Shri Mataji: Even the Indians are so stupid sometimes! I fixed a puja in Pune, on the first day of this Navratri – Magi Navratri. But stupid people in Pune were so obstinate, that they didn’t want to have it at that time, so they said: “No, we’ll have program at such and such.” And I said: “Let it be.” So they had it in Lonavala. And then they realized and they were out like this.
You remember once I came at the Puja at about 11:45 and the Puja was to be at 9. And you all were very unhappy about it. But then I said you all consult the panchanga.
Sahaja Yogi: Panchanga. Last year, the same thing happened Mataji.
Shri Mataji: You remember?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes. You came a bit late, so we were all worried and we were stranded at Nasik itself.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes. But You said something You had to do some Puja at Nasik so You purposely came late.
Shri Mataji: See, Nasik is one of the very big centre of auspiciousness here. And there are horrible Rakshasas who are settled down there. So I had to work it out in Nasik itself.
I told them: “Never start a program before seven” in England. Always I said it, even here. But they fixed up a program at six. I said: “It’s not auspicious. I’ll not be there.” And in the morning time, not before 11 o’clock. Now the daytime I need to go to the other world to look after that side, you see. I can’t give you twenty-four hours, can I?
Sahaja Yogi: Ratha septami.
Shri Mataji: Ha! That was the day, Ratha Septami was the day. Then the second day puja we had on Ratha Septami? On the seventh day? Of the thing, was?
[Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi]
Sahaja Yogi: Vishwa ashtami.
Shri Mataji: And the second was vishwa ashtami two days were there. And you cannot have a havana on a septami. So the septami started very early in the morning and the I saw the Sun because the Sun is the ratha septami. So I saw the Sun and I don’t disturb it. And then ashtami we had. I don’t consult any panchaga you know.
Sahaja Yogi: Because You are the creator of panchanga.
[Laughter ; applause]
Shri Mataji: [Speaks in Marathi].
And then you know mister, I said: “Why did you fix-up like that?”
But, it’s a great thing to know about the panchanga also because there is one Sahaja Yogi called Mr Pharke he is Brahmin, of the real type of Brahmin, you seee, coconust ‘s Brahmin. And he has a sharda of his father, that they celebrate these rites after the father’s death. Very good really, they do that so the anorexia and all these things do not happen. You are supposed to feed the Brahmins. But these days, Brahmins are the only people who are unrealized, it’s a wrong thing. But still you the mother said you must feed the Brahmin, you see, because your father had died.
So he asked a Brahmin: “When will you come?” He said: “I will come on Thursday.” He said: “According to panchanga, that’s auspicious.” He said: “Are you sure?” He said: “Yes!” So, he went and consulted the panchanga himself and it was written it was not at all auspicious and shrada should not be done on Thursday.
This fellow, the Brahmin is booked in India, you see, they are also booked for eating. Yes.
They booked this Brahmin for eating from sharadhas, you see. So he was booked otherwise.
So, he wanted to do this at his own convenience. So he said: “Thursday.” When he went to Pharke’s place, he is Sahaja Yogi. He said: “Now, what has the panchanga said?” He said: “Today is auspicious.” “Which panchanga?” He says: “This panchanga, that they use for the dates. Which one?
Sahaja Yogi: Datte
Shri Mataji: Dattes panchanga which they use. He said: “Datte’s panchanga, are you sure?” He said: “Yes yes, I’m sure.” He said: “I will not even give you a cup of tea because this day is inauspicious.” He showed him the panchanga and said: “You get out from here.” And the mother was so angry with him. He said: “Nothing doing, you get out of here, I won’t even give you a cup of tea you get out of here.” Then he called some Sahaja Yogis on an auspicious day and fed them. So that’s how he’s taking another form now.
How are you? Better? How are you? Put your right hand towards Me.
Sahaja Yogini: Mother, how can we increase the power of love more and more without worring about cleaning our chakras and not worrying about catch or something like that. Because we are very concentrated on ourselves. And I would like to know how we can develop the power of love? Others, I mean without worrying about ourselves because every moment we are thinking of us.
Shri Mataji: But in loving what is there to worry? I just don’t understand. It’s only your ego, that keeps you out of it. What is wrong in loving someone?
Sahaja Yogini: I mean increase the power of loving.
Shri Mataji: Increase?
Another Sahaja Yogini: I think what she’s trying to say Mother, is that she would like to know what we could do to increase this power of love that you are talking about, how to love each others more rather than be concerned about of our own catches all the time and to worry about that. I think that’s what she means.
Sahaja Yogini: Yes, it is.
Shri Mataji: Don’t do it artificially, you know. There is no pump.
Rather a difficult thing, “na”? You have to just love, you see, what are you worried about? I don’t understand. You are egoistical that’s why you can’t love, you see, what will you catch? You don’t catch by loving, never. You never, because you see, you are identified with something that’s why you catch.
Like, now supposing I told her to keep away from her [?]. In Lyn’s love they should do it. If they love each other they should keep away, separate, because they are destroying each other.
Better they keep away from each other and have another type of a company. Really because they are same type and if two wheels are going in the same direction, God knows where they will land. There is no time for them to think.
So, you just love people, no harm, there is nothing can come. But this is not love you see when they combine together they can’t even see their own destruction, then there is no love. Actually, it is sort of a convenience, they feel secure with each other. She has a right heart, she has a right heart. Where is security? Both of them are sharing all the miseries of the world, like two drunkards, you see, sitting here.
If the trouble increases that means something’s wrong. Nobody catches; I mean we enjoy love, isn’t it? Really enjoy love. You don’t catch from people whom you love them. That’s one of the signs of love: you never catch.
A mother, I don’t know about, Baba, Western mothers, but Indian mother even if child has got a disease, which is very contagious, the mother is allowed to look after the child but she will never catch from the child.
[Mother talks in Marathi] Is absolute truth. You ask, the doctor is sitting here, you ask her.
Sahaja Yogini: What about sympathetic vibrations? You spoke about sympathy with some body you can catch from each other.
Shri Mataji: Then you sympathy: “symp” means “share”, “pathy” is pathos. So you share pathos, is all right. What is there to be sympathetic? You see, when you love you just enjoy the love.
What is the sympathy? That’s Western nonsense I tell you, sympathy- absolutely. You see, it is so artificial that I just can’t grasp it. I cannot sympathize in Me because I have no pathos in Me, how can I share pathos?
Even if somebody is too much of a – sort of a – you know, double face sort of a person and going about, then I shout at that person, in love. I shout at people, in love. Patricia will say yes.
In love I do. Even to kill rakshasas, you have to have love for them.
[A Sahaja Yogi speaks in Marathi with Shri Mataji.]
Shri Mataji: [Speaks in marathi]
RAGA ra manje energy and ga manje gayete manje gana. So raga cha artha. And he’s asking a very nice and a deep question.
There is a subject called weet raga a person who has gone beyond attachement, beyond “mama” [my], beyond attachement. This he explained that how you achieve that kind of thing, “mamaka, me” [mine; me]. “Ra”, “ra” is energy, “ga gayete”, “ga” means –
Sanchara la kaiye sanchar? Braman? Movement?
Sahaja Yogi: Movement.
Shri Mataji: Movement of energy. So the movement of energy is “raga”. “Ra” is energy and “ga” is- this is sympathy you can call it, because when the movement of energy gets locked up. You see like a tree has got the energy with in itself in the sap, the sap is moving and it gets, suppose it likes one flower, it gets locked up there. Then it has gone into the state where it is locked up. Now, never it happens in the nature, no tree likes one flower, never, its only human beings. They will like one child, they won’t like another child. “This is my child, this is yours”.
This is only human style. At animal state also, they say: “This is mine child”. But we even get attached to our things, to our, you can say, possessions, to material things also we get attached.
Or we get attached too much sometimes to so many nonsensical things, which has no meaning, you know. These identification takes place because the energy gets locked up to it. Energy is there to nourish, to look after, to encourage and to get out of it. Because if it is locked up, then the energy is dead, the thing is dead too. If the energy of a tree is locked up in a flower. the flower will die and the tree will die also.
That’s why they said you should become a weetaraga, and you should be able to detach yourself from that weeta. Weet manje kaiye mada? (marathi)
Is above its above that means you do not get attached you see. Now this is my daughter and this is my son this is my house this is my my my my then I I I I. Today only I was telling about Kabira. Kabira has said these goat all the time goes on saying mai mai mai mai means I I I I when she is living then when this goat dies and they take out the intestines of the goat and make it into strings and the people who use a kind of an instrument in India, which is used for cleaning the cotton dhunki they call it. When it is tied to that, it says tu hi tu hi tu hi- its you its you its you. It requires that kind of happening it’s a, in Sahaja yoga you become the Spirit. Spirit can be attached to anyone. So you become the weet raga.
[A Sahaja Yogi speaks in Marathi with Shri Mataji.]
Shri Mataji:[Speaks in Marathi]
Unsurmountable: it’s Nirmala. It’s nirmal, it cannot get attached, it cannot be blemished, it cannot catch anything, it is not attached, you become your Spirit. That’s how you become weetaraga (Shri Mataji talks in Marathi)
They told that how to keep yourself cleansed, keep your attention away, these things divert your attention, all these things were told but it didn’t work out very well. Specially the Jainis were told so many things and they made a mess of every thing, you know that. Same about Christians and whatever. So, I thought it’s better to give them Realization first.
Sahaja Yogis: Bolo Nirmala Mataji Jay!
Shri Mataji: Better start their bath, then they will themselves see where the defect is and they’ll try to improve it. Make them into the Spirit, all right? Once you become the Spirit you will enjoy the light of the Spirit and the light of the spirit is love. All right so don’t be paranoid about catching.
Sahaja Yogini: No, I wasn’t talking about catching but just how to open the heart more and more
Shri Mataji: Not to have any fears about it.
Sahaja Yogi: It opens.
Shri Mataji: Just open, be nice to everyone and kind to it. You see, this is Freud, he has put fears into your minds. All sorts of nonsensical people, such perversions and nonsensical things that exists, doesn’t exist here in India, we never think like that!
You have seen how people are clean. They don’t even know these things are happening or exist.
I mean, I was shocked when in England when I heard that such things happen, I didn’t eat my food for days together! I got such a cramp in the stomach. Couldn’t understand how could people be so stupid as that?
Just let go, all right?
Italians are good at it. Actually, Italians, really, I must say are real connoisseurs. They just saw my photograph and they came they saw the serenity on my face. It is some thing great isn’t it? Just seeing my photograph. Nowhere I think in the West. I don’t know about Australians, but nowhere in the West people are impressed with my photograph so much as the Italians were. They could see the serenity.
So many told Me that: We saw your photo and we knew that You were the One Mother, we knew You were the One. It’s something remarkable, isn’t it? About Italians, that they understand the divine beauty.
Ha what’s that? Who is that?
Sahaja Yogi: Could you tell us something about the importance of collectivity and collective evolution in Sahaja Yoga?
Shri Mataji: You see, we build up our barriers with the ego, superego, fears, pride, the things we have conditioned ourselves, we have read about things, you see, we are so frightened about other, and all those things are there.
But after Realization you become collectively conscious, actually become. Now, the first thing that happens to people who get Realization is that they are aware that they are collectively conscious and they know that somebody is catching.
Now, those who are not Realized souls, you will catch from them much more, naturally, because they are not even Realized. So the company of such people starts changing. But one should not be very much anxious or there should be no anguish or say paranoid about it. Because in appearance, you see, if you start showing like that, others will run away. But you must understand how far to go with people.
Now the collectivity is to be understood that you become part and parcel of the whole. All right? Now, this nose has to know about the eyes, the eyes have to know about the ears, the ears have to know about the throat.
So now say, supposing liver is in France, Sahaja Yogis in France will form a group separately, still, they will sit together. English- the heart will sit together. Others will sit together, which is not a very healthy sign. Because you should know about each other, it’s a complete growth of the body. The nose must know about the ears. The ears must know about the heart. Otherwise nose will start going like this, ears will start going like that, out of proportion.
So collective growth has to be so. It’s so commonsense you see.
It’s common sense.
Now what happens with the collectivity is the, there are many barriers, which work out. One of them, as I said, is ego; it’s the worst of all. I have seen people; if somebody comes and stays will Me say, people get jealous of that person. It’s most surprising! You see, that person is in a very big danger zone, coming nearer Me is not an easy thing, you know.
Its quiet dangerous you see. That person is tested much more than a person who is away from Me. So thank God you are not so near! Because there are one tiger and one lion sitting and the one who comes near Me also,
Sahaja Yogis: Jai Mataji!
Shri Mataji: Gets this feeling that he is something great, it works both.
All such nonsensical things there are. Nobody is nearer, there’s a circulation is on. Those who think are very close to Me can be dropped down just like nails you cut them. Any outgrown people will be dropped down just like that. You know that, from Sahaja Yoga. So what is there to be jealous?
If you are jealous be healthy about it that you try to be like a person who understands Sahaja Yoga better, be like that person more. You should treat that person as an ideal who understands Sahaja Yoga better than you, who has better vibrations, who is more surrendered and who talks less than you and understands more and appreciates. Instead of that if you are jealous, what are you going to gain?
This is the ego side. Ego can be anything, many people I have seen they talk big: “You see, Sahaja yoga,” Brain trust we are going to have now.
Then in the brain trust some people are answering the questions and some are asking the questions.
It’s all right, I see the play, is all right, but nobody should think that by doing all these things you are closer to God. You are only closer to God if you are closer to God. It is so simple as that. If you are closer to God you are closer to God otherwise you are not. How far is the distance between you and Me makes no difference.
So one has to know how far you are closer to God, how far you are understanding God, how far you are surrendered because when you are surrendered only collectivity will work out, na?
If, say, your mouth is not surrendered to your brain, you will become like mad people.
I have seen some people, in France I saw, they were just talking all the time, they got into the bus they were talking, they got down they were talking, they had no control of the brain on them. So you become like that.
So to become closer to God, you have to be closer to God that’s as simple as it. I mean somebody will say: “How will I know? How I know that I can drive a car?” I mean you know. “How do I know I can drive a bike?” For example, how can I know I can use a bike? I mean when you are that you are that. I mean is there any other way out? How will I say I have got eyes? When you can see, finished. I mean it is so simple as that. So how can you say you are nearer to God?
You yourself will know that you are nearer to God because the joy of being that, you’ll feel. You need not be close to Me. You need not be touching my feet. You could be anywhere in the forest you could be very close to Me and those who thing that they are very close to Me because they can make a little face and behave in a very artificial way or some dramatic styles are very far away.
And those who cannot understand the commands of the brain are useless things. Now supposing one nail starts growing big and piercing inside the skin, we will take it out isn’t it? Its not listening to the brain, we will have to throw it out.
Any malignant growth is that growth which goes beyond the control of the brain, of the central nervous system. If the parasympathetic cannot control a growth of a particular cell that is the malignant cell. So if you become malignant in Sahaja yoga you may think you are a very great person: “Now, very something.” You may think you will be thrown out because you are a disease. You are a diseased person, you will be thrown out. So to be relevant is to be relevant. There is no alternative for that. [Hindi] Paryay nahi?
Sahaja Yogi: No compromising.
Shri Mataji: No compromise.
If you are in the body you are moving with the same pace, same coordination, same understanding with all the other moves of the cells, isn’t it? Any thing that becomes big or small is useless. Some people think that if they show they are very afraid and this and that, now what’s the need? Nothing.
It’s the other side of it. So both the things are no good for your growth in collectivity. And as the whole body has to grow, it is a collective growth.
We have a collective growth otherwise also, a tree grows, then it grows collectively or not? When it grows outward it has to grow inward also or not? Otherwise it won’t stand the weight of the outside. That what is has happened, now, to people who are over developed. They can’t bear it anymore, they have to find out their roots.
But the whole thing grows. Even a tree, a dog and everyhting grows in proportion to its grotwh. Now, for example, if you have a mango tree it won’t grow like say, a coconut tree, will it? It keeps to its own swahabavya [identity; nature]. In the same way, human beings must grow like human beings and not like animals.
So you grow according to your style. Human beings cannot be tall like coconut trees and cannot be dwarf like say, what you call, bushes. If they become like that they are diseased, they are abnormal.
So you have to grow as human beings and you have to grow collectively all of you together and you all have to be very normal, there is nothing abnormal which is needed in you, there is nothing to show off, just like normal people you have to be.
Actually, those who try to show off, actually have an inferiority complex in them. So they try to show off that they are very great seekers or something. I know everyone.
So what is there to show off for whom? It is for you, do you show off yourself? It is for your own growth, for your own understanding, for your own joy, for your own power, for your own property that is your Spirit. It is some point which is yours. And to be one with the whole you grow better, you get more nourishment. Otherwise you are cut out and after some time you die, you are finished. If the nail grow beyond a certain limit you cut it off. It’s not needed, it’s not needed by the body, it’s just cut off.
All right? This is what is the problem of the collectivity that we don’t understand that we are all one body. Still, we are individualistic and we have this problems.
All those things which create malignancy must be given up, like smoking. I mean, how horrible it is to smoke in a society to be very frank. But on the growth level, when they want to establish a rapport between two persons, they offer a cigarette. That’s the bhoot collectivity I call it.
That you appeal to the bhoot of another person. This bhoot gives cigarette to the bhoot in you and they share the bhootishness. All bhootiness they show you.
Sahaja Yogi: This is a collective realization of –
Shri Mataji: Of bhoots!
Sahaja Yogi: Of bhoots.
Shri Mataji: Collectivity of the bhoots!
All right? This is what happens. But this is in the society, you know, regarded as a very good way of having collectivity.
But in Sahaja Yoga the collectivity comes- [cut in the audio]
[End of tape2]
Just come in
Sit on it
Sit on that facing Me. That’s perfect.
You all put yourself left to the right.
Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi. Morning time they had made a very special lunch for Me. Very special lunch for you. Very good lunch, na?
Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible.]
I think you better export all your eggs to India. Egg powder, eggs quite a lot is jammed there. Specially the egg powder.
Sahaja Yogi: Can we eat cheese and other?
Shri Mataji: Cheese, and other. I was about to tell you that get the cheese from there for you.
Shri Mataji is laughting.
Sahaja Yogi: I don’t know what to do Mother.
Shri Mataji: Same thing happened last time, you remember? You brought the cheese: nobody would eat it. Because they all had liver so the cheese was kept there whom to give the cheese? So it was taken to Delhi.
Anybody who has good liver can eat cheese. Who has good liver?
Sahaja Yogini: Mother has an excellent one I think.
Now, all right?
Now think of the Moon. I can see. Moon is your uncle Mama he tumche (your maternal uncle) My brother. So think of the Moon now.
Twameva shakshat Shri Chandrama!
Audience: Om twameva Shakshat shri chandrama shakshat Shri Nirmala Devi Namo Namah
Shri Mataji: Again
Audience: Om twameva Shakshat shri chandrama shakshat Shri Nirmala Devi Namo Namah
Shri Mataji: Again
Audience: On twameva Shakshat shri chandrama shakshat Shri Nirmala Devi Namo Namah
Shri Mataji: See the vibrations. All right? Much cooler. That’s your uncle in the very sutra?? (Unclear word) You can always ask for help from him. He is sitting on top of his brother-in-law’s head, that is Shiva. Always the brother-in-law see like, Moon is the brother-in-law for Shiva sits on the head of the sister’s husband always ready.
Shri Mataji speak in Marathi
Jiska bhai ho andar Jiske bahen ho andar uska bhai ho sikandar (Hindi)
You say whose sister; the wife He married is a great person Alexander. Sikandar is Alexander’s name. Because you see Alexander was a brother-in-law for Indians. You know the story of Alexander? You don’t know? You are not reading My… listening to my.. (Ha.)
This Alexander the Great. He is from Greece. He invaded India and when he came up to Punjab and where he was you see attacking and also capturing many peoples and many kingdoms. And then once when he was defeated by a king called as Puru and this king arrested him and put him in the jail and that was the day when auspicious day when it is a full Moon day and that day a sister ties a thread in the hand of the brother and anybody who wants to have a help from anybody can tie in the hands of a brother. See the auspiciousness of this. See how delicate this is. So the wife of Alexander was an Indian, he had married an Indian lady. After coming to India he had married an Indian lady and so this Indian lady was very cleaver because that was the day when a she could call somebody as a brother. So she sent that thread called the rakhi in a plate covered with a nice cloth to this king when he was on his throne in the court. When it was offered to him. He saw it and he said “who is this sister of mine who has sent me today this?” So they said “she is the wife of Alexander!” “Oh God!” He said “I didn’t know, I locked up my brother-in-law inside”. Immediately he went to the prison. He brought him outside and said “I am sorry, Sir. I am very sorry. You come along”. he brought him and put him on the throne. And he said “I am sorry you take everything what you like, you can arrest me, do what ever you like. You have married my sister I cannot arrest you”. Alexander was quite shocked at his behaviour. He couldn’t understand this mad chap. He said “he is offering me this thing I will give out all his country. Luckily he caught me”. He couldn’t understand this. Then he gave him lots of money everything and sent him home you see. And this lady was smiling at home. She said “what did he do?” She said “I just sent him a plate”. She showed him this is this kind. This thread! What do you mean? She told him “today is such an such day and if somebody sends like that then you are bound you see to save your sister”. You see then you become a sister. And that’s your duty.
He said “Oh God I better go back! I can’t look after these people they are so subtle and so on.
It is just beyond me how can they leave an enemy like me? Only on a thread!” And he went back. That’s why we call him great because he realized that there is auspiciousness. Can you imagine? This would be stupidity according to many.
Audience: Mother.. [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: Jeremy I think I better not do it now. All right? Because then the attention will be there more. Just now you try to build up your ardah bindu. Then I will tell you about this. You see you might run away half of you. I don’t want to tell you, because you see, truth is also quite startling you know. If I tell you, you have to carry the weight of an elephant on your back. You will all run away you see. But if I prepare your back you may agree. That’s why I am not telling you. Let me prepare you to face that. Then I will tell you about purna bindu. All right ?
Audience: I am not sure what is ardh bindu?
Shri Mataji: Nutshell you where outside. I have told them in a big shell. He wants to
know in a nut shell what is ardha bindu. [Laughter]
It is Chandrama on top of the head of Shiva is the ardha bindu. On top of the omkara is ardhabindu. All right Jeremy? I will let you know.
Is too much of a perfection and you’ll say I am going home. No sorry. Like an American went to England and he saw the spellings of things are so different like Wostershire and this and that and he got really upset, you see. When he saw an advertisement for some picture for gas like or whatever gas like and pronounced success. He said pronounced for success gas like, he said “I won’t go, that is too much”. That’s how I don’t want to tell you that’s how I don’t want you to go home.
How are you Rustam? “Kya haal hai tumahara”. How are you now better?
You sleep in two dormitories separatly. Don’t see each other and don’t talk.
I think you better share with Barbara [Unsure]. It will help both of you.
Shri Mataji: Who is the lady who has come from Vancouver?
How are you Lorrie? Are you all right?
Because you see we have just started a work in Vancouver. You see I want you people to really feel the responsibility. It’s a very big responsibility; out of the way post I should say I am quite worried about Canada. All right? And we can start Vancouver site, because French is difficult. As it is French is difficult and then French in Canada is even more difficult.
Only trouble with French is that they want to do everything in a different way. Everything! Some how or the other they want to do. They will have hats they will have some sort of a tail. If they will wear pants then they will have some thing different. I mean every way. They do not want to have any thing in common with any one else. It’s a great problem with them.
After saying this to French are you better? How are you?
Sahaja Yogi: I’m better, much better
Shri Mataji: You have been sending some French?
Shri Mataji: Who is that?
Sahaja Yogi: I don’t know… Some French…
Shri Mataji: Now you’re trying to talk French!
Shri Mataji: I never meant that kind of things. No, no, no, no.
Sahaja Yogi (Indian): [Inaudible]
Non, no, it’s true, absolutely, I mean I can’t speak French.
Ha that’s how you got your Vishuddhi now I know.
Shri Mataji: There is no word for awareness in that language, imagine! They have a dictionary of all dirty things but no word for awareness. Chatenat shabd he nahi hai. French madhe (Shri Mataji speaks Marathi) can you believe it?
See what are you trying to learn French?
Shri Mataji: Now you’re trying to know French.
Sahaja Yogi: I am not trying to know.
[Big laughter] I wish I were [Inaudible] They don’t speak English, that’s why.
Shri Mataji: French should learn English, please for heaven’s sake. All the French must learn English, minimum. French language how can I speak. Moreover now the God’s understand English language now as they are with in Me. But they don’t understand French and French doesn’t have even the word awareness. What are you going to do about it? Just think of it. The supremacy of French has been, in stupidifying every man, it’s something nonsensical. I can tell you.
I don’t think there is anything special about them except for few great writers who came as a blessing or them, Emile Zola, I would say, was great. There were some writers of course, very good, but most people are very materialistic and very immoral, very immoral, isn’t it? Very immoral. There is nothing to learn from immorality.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, why is Vancouver is the place? [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: You tell Me.
You see it is a country which is affluent all right. But it has not finished the epic of affluence you see. Like English have now. I mean they are the fed up with themselves. Still they Canadian people think that they are great. They are trying to copy the English. So they are still to copy the English. But English are now fed up with themselves. That maturity is not there. As I was saying the other day like other developing countries or communistic countries like we can say Poland or, I am sorry to say but I don’t mean anybody here but I am saying Polish people are like that Christians, Polish, Canadian all of them lack. The thing is all these countries are not yet developed enough, to realise that this is no good for them, see. Same with Canadian. I see they are trying to copy the British still in a way. To them I mean the British Canadians still think that we should become like British. But where the British are lying in the mud, they don’t see. But these are the ones who have hit their head back. They don’t want to be there. Little difference little bit they have gone down or may be they have to come up that’s why I think, you can mature off course. They attack Me a lot, when I went there. On the television, on the radio they attack Me. They said all kinds of things. Nowhere they did that. They attack me very much. And with all the expense and all that we put in we spend so much money that. They want to make homes like English home and like that. What Australia was doing now say fifty years back, Canadians are doing that now. That is the way.
Shri Mataji: See your vibrations. Through your vibrations, vibrations are the cooling things and through your vibrations. That’s the only way, it’s very simple. Through your vibratory awareness. Must use your vibratory awareness more and more. But not for small things you know. This is for bigger things, our bigger vision of life. Use your vibrations for solving the bigger problems like people who live here have lost their something; they give a bandhan, that’s not proper. For small small things not but for bigger things use your vibrations. You can now give some thing to the nature. Now you can give to the consciousness of the people. Now, where some Sahaja Yogis are sitting its all vibrate. You being there is all going to change the history. Already it is changing. Since I am there banking laws and everything is changing. So much is coming (Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi). Take the children there. They will feel sleepy; let them have their food. Go! All right take them. Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi on side.
I hope you have rested well and it’s a very nice place and a pleasant place. You will like this place very much. Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi.
Shri Mataji: He is singing a song for God. Let her also go, you also go. All of you have your food. Children should have their food also
Audience: what about Sahaja yoga in America
Shri Mataji: We have one already here. One and two. One is Roger, where is she, she was sitting here, Other.
Audience: she has gone out.
Shri Mataji: gone out! For?
Audience: gone out for a walk
Shri Mataji: She has gone out for a walk; American Sahaja Yoga is gone out for a walk.
Shri Mataji: Other one is here, 50% is here! Thankyou! They believe in walking, jogging and what else. According to Roger, America does not a Mataji, requires a sinner. It’s horrible!
What about America? They are asking? American Sahaja yoga? Aai?
What did she say?
Audience: they believe in principle of mother is God, sibblies
Shri Mataji: Sibblies, they believe in America, is that so? Houston was very good.
Audience: In the country they believe in blessed Virgin.
Shri Mataji: They believed in Blessed virgin! Houston was very good, I must say, Houston was very good. Houston I really liked. It was so sweet. Very sweet and I told them about Christianity because I spoke in the Churches. Houston in that Unity Church, where they have unity of all the bhoots of the world. All the horrible people whom I did not even know, I found them also in the Unity Church.
Shri Mataji: Bhoot unity Church. But I told them off. And now I am told in their regular service they are soaking the feet, without My photograph, doesn’t matter.
Shri Mataji: What an apology! Sahaja Yoga is a big joker. Isn’t it? Next year we hope to have some thing better. If you did not destroy it before that. Already I am told Los Angeles is having a pang of My visitation there. Los Angeles had a bad time. First time when I went to Rome they really misbehaved there and they had a big earth quake there. Now its better. It’s all right. This visit was good, isn’t it Pablo? People are better off now. I mean, they are good people. I think French, they are much better than French. They are very sensible, still.
Audience: In Rome.
Shri Mataji: Italians are more sensible people as far as God is concerned. First of all they are fed with the Pope.
Audience: we have too much church heat
Shri Mataji: no, no most of them don’t have faith in him. With the Pope. No no. Most have don’t have. They have understand it. I think you are very sensible. You see those who are away from the pope think no end of himself, those who are near them can see the donkey hat. That hat only a donkey can wear
Shri Mataji: because what’s the need to have it like this? There are ears coming out
Isn’t it? I mean I don’t understand why this shape? Specially, this way. This is what? It must be the donkey. I mean this must be the donkey Christ must have rode on. They can’t explain why to have a donkey hat like that? It is going like this and like that. I mean you can have a hat like this but every way is possible. This kind I have never seen. Have you seen this kind before? Out of proportion it is. Must be for the ears to be hidden. No no that way I must say people know him much better in Rome than they know in say Argentina or any place. They know him much better. They know what wealth they have got and how they lead their life and how they are sucking the money of the people. Everything they know very well. Rome is a very positive place like that. But if you go to Switzerland the Swiss, Catholics are the worst of all, I think, in the whole world. They cannot be. You see they have got money and they are capitalist. If they were poor they can see things. But they have money and they are Catholics. God save them! They are the worst I think. They may be the worst one of the worst, because Jews I don’t know. Jews I can’t say. Equal share. Jews have money and they are stupid. Same with the Swiss people. They are very stupid Catholics, extremely stupid Catholics in Switzerland I tell you, very stupid. Ask him, he will tell you how stupid they are. She can’t believe it. They have no brains, brainless people. They have money but no brains. Now they are doing charismatic movement, charismatic movement in the church. (Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi) manje bhoot vidya karte hai church me, ha, parach hoi, bhoot vidya Asuri vidya, Absolutely asuriya. I mean we Indian know, they don’t know poor things they don’t know. That is Varjit: that is to be given up, that is not to be accepted. That is Virjit, in our Shastras. It is varjit, we know so much about these things which you do not know, what can you do also? I mean in spirituality I would say you are at least thousand years back may be more. This we knew long long back. Kaide maiyte asuri vidya ? Chauda hazar varshe purvi mayte. Since 14000 years back we are talking about this horrible. I mean we knew about it long time back. So how much backward you are.
Audience: Mother, what should we be reading?
Shri Mataji: What should we read?
Audience: Inaudible. We have all grown up from Catholic education or Protestant education so apart from the bible what else should we be reading?
Shri Mataji: Must you read? Must you read? Better give up reading. As it is your eyesight is very weak. Better not read. What is the need to read? You read your sum, you read in Sahaja Yoga. What is the need to read? If you have to read, read Khalil Gibran, you read so many things of the Goddess. These things you must read if you have to read. But try to read less. I think you people are read, over read. First it should be emptied then you should read some thing sensible. Because they read read read read read. They read too much in the west. Any thing sells, which ever is printed. You should reduce reading. It is too much. I never read. I have no time to read any thing. What is there to read? You can read within ourselves, there is a library within ourselves.
Audience: Mother, you talk about diary, I try to start it but I found difficult to, not to ….( Inaudible) your ego or your miseries
Shri Mataji: Its all right to keep a record of your ego because when it will be lost then you will know you had it. It’s all right. Whatever it is you face yourself.
Shri Mataji: Dili is enjoying this. Because he has lost more or most of it now.
Its one good thing- backward page – to see what we were, its very nice so you feel happy with yourself not others, which is very good. Now, what I would suggest that we should do little work. See because these people have been working very little to fold this thing which you are sitting and sit on all these things that are there. You better have it then you know what they have done mistakes.
Audience: Its not really necessary to go to India if they can do it here [unclear]
Shri Mataji: If of course I mean, Americans and Russian don’t interfere with that. You see if they come and interfere with us and tell us how to develop. Then we may go astray, possibly. That is what it is, they are all trying to teach us how to develop. Its true, I mean, it’s a big interference, isn’t it?
Audience: But is there a power to resist that?
Shri Mataji: See, that what I am thinking that, unless and until our people are at the helm of affairs understand, it will stop. That mean you have to develop on your own lines. Our cultural background is so strong. We are very stuck into them [Unclear]
Audience: I mean if there a proper plan to resist that?
Shri Mataji: All right (Unclear) Sit down
Audience: what about New Zealand? New Zealand, Mother? The country New Zealand. Is there much chance… Would you come to New Zealand
Shri Mataji: New Zealand was part of India as Australia was also. All right? (Shri Mataji speaks on side) I would like to discuss with you people, that is the first time I am really talking to you about the marriage. First one should know that I would love you to be married because there are great Sahaja Yogis to be born. And they will be born to the people who are married only. What happened
Audience: Some thing jumped on him
Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi speaks on side
Shri Mataji: those who want to get married, I have asked Warren to find out. On the very outset I must tell you that some people are very ego oriented and they don’t understand that marriage is an auspicious thing and about marriage their attitude is very funny. They don’t want to interfere with that, at all, because they know how to make a mess out of it. They don’t know how to make a good out of it but how to make a mess out of it. Which is a fact. So you see the interference is not there from My side, neither I am going to take a decision for it, of any kind but I would say there are girls who want to say some English girl want to marry, some Australian boys want to marry and some Australian girls want to marry but some.
So we should make a list of people who want to get married, all right? Now those who want to get married should give Me the message and we should circulate and you should have a selection of your own, without My interference, to Me everybody is all right. But one should not do any thing drastic. You see if it is not feasible it is there is no need to get into drastic state. Some thing in a very Sahaja way, simple way is the marriage that’s place is all right. All right? So there should not be too much of a (Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi)
So I think best thing would be to circulate- there is going to be a marriage in Delhi. In that marriage if other marriage can take place then in sense it is much easy and those who want to get married can get married. And there is no force of any kind. There is no need to be shy those who want to get married should really give me your names. Problem with them is they get little worried, with the vibrations now also how long you have been in Sahaja Yoga, that’s the problem with them. If they have not been with them for a long time then they get a little worried about them. It is for you to decide. Patrick, I will speak to you a little later.
[break]place and we will have our picnic with you and then you proceed further, so that you will have very light food tomorrow night there, when we go there some fruits or some thing light. So you come back home, sleep and next morning you get up early and go to that place. Shri Mataji speaks in side. You sleep very early about 10 o’clock
(Some Sanskrit sholakas in the end, with translation)
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi
* Philippa Pullar, The Shortest Journey (London: H.Hamilton, 1981)