Limitations of Divine Power

Caxton Hall, London (England)

1982-04-05 Limitations of Divine Power, transcribed, 69' Download subtitles: EN (1)View subtitles:
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Limitations of the Divine Power, Public Programme,  Caxton Hall, London, UK – 5 April 1982

…Divine to work out its working. Because Divine can go up to a point, that’s the trouble. It has no interest in your money, nor in your position or anything. It has only one interest: that you should take to Divine love. And if you go on accepting something that is stupid how can Divine help you?

I have been thinking on these lines all through and I have talked to some of those who came to us that, “How is it [that] you never discovered that they were false gurus?” They said, “We could see. There was something in us that was saying that, ‘There’s something false about this gentleman.’” And still, why did you continue? They said, “Because we were walking in a dark alley and didn’t know whether we were walking forwards or backwards and they said, ‘Go on and on and on,’ promising us about the future.” And that’s the point: because you are futuristic, you are people who are futuristic, you do not want to believe that you can get your Realisation today. You just don’t want to believe it. You don’t want to listen to that person who says, “You can get your Realisation today.” You want to keep it for the future. Everything postponed for the future. And that’s why you go on living with it, till you are completely finished and wrecked, when Kundalini cannot rise, when you cannot get your Realisation.

I think the worst thing this futuristic society has done to us is that we always postpone even our Self-realisation. Can you imagine? It’s a very sad thing. This kind of postponement is going to lead us into great troubles.

The Divine Power today is so active, so activated. It was never so activated, I can tell you. Those who are Realised-souls can see that. At the time of Vedas the Divine Power which looked like small sparks of light, which you can see, the Realised-souls can see, was called as ‘bhargo’, ‘bharga’. And in the main mantra of Vedas it was written that, “Make me such that I should be able to see that bharga, that Divine sparkle, in the sky,” which Sahaja Yogis can see. And for that people were willing to sacrifice anything to get to that state where they could at least see that. But today, because of futuristic society, we’ll also say that, “All right, we’ll see it tomorrow, not today. Leave it for tomorrow.”

Now this power, today, is so very active it was never that active, it was never that sensitive. Today that Divine Power is extremely sensitive and those people who are simple people, who are not futuristic by temperament, can feel it. They are so sensitive to it [that] in a split of a second you can give Realisation to thousands of these people.

So, I personally think that one should try to feel this Divine Power, those who are Realised-souls, in its all aspects. And the greatest aspect of it is that, today it is very active. It is very active because so many people are Realised-souls on this Earth. Because of you. It is working out things in such a dimension. I mean, you can see the result of this yourself. For example, when the Sahaja Yogis got this ashram they were amazed. But it’s the blessing of the Divine Power. You know how knowledgeable it is. A tree which is a mango tree will have to give mango fruits. This power first sprouts the tree, chooses all of them in such a way that a mango tree gives a mango. Any other tree will [also] give the fruit that it has. The child is born to a mother. People have not heard that dogs are born to human beings. A human child is born to a human being.

So many forces have been active before but today the spiritual force is so magnetic and so great. And the greatest of work it has done [is to] bring forth so many seekers in this world. It’s the Divine force which has brought all of you on this Earth. And now the only problem is of guiding them to the right lines.

Now, the Divine Power [which] can be called as the ‘Universal Unconscious’ for people who are not Realised-souls, can give you dreams and you can understand through dreams the symbols, if you could, or even clearly see things by which you can come to Sahaja Yoga. And you can find your Self-realisation. But when a person sleeps, in a deep sleep, he goes to a state called ‘shushupti’. There he does see many things. But when he’s returning to consciousness, that time, there are other layers which cover you up, your memory. Here also the futuristic temperament is responsible. The people who are futuristic have got a very bad memory. Their past is cut out and even when they go into their depth, their memory itself is inactive. Apart from that the mind of a modern man is so full of thoughts and ideas. There’s so much of pressure and load on his head, that by the time he comes to his consciousness, all that he has seen in the dreams becomes to zero and the superficial dreams of this present day life cover it up. So that even the glimpse of that is not convincing or maybe it cannot guide. The telecommunication system of the Divine is through dreams, to human beings, but only the dreams we see in the state of shushupti. For a Realised-soul it is easy to be in that state, to remember it, and to forget about all useless things because he is no more identified with the mundane things of life, with the useless things of life. But the guidance of these dreams, I have seen some people had these dreams. In Rome, I was surprised. In Rome, so many people came to my programme because they saw me in a dream. There was an actress who saw me in her dreams and she came to see me and then she came to talk to me later on and she told me that, “Mother I saw you in my dreams.” And clearly she saw me as something that was important to her.

The activity of this Divine force is also marred when we are taking our spiritual life to some sort of an organised religious form. Now, any religious form, say Indian religious form or say an English or say a Christian religious form, has deviated from reality. One must accept it. It’s a fact, whatever you may say. That churches or temples or all these religions, which were really meant for Sahaja Yoga today – there it is. I have to go and work. But where are they? They are going to deny me completely. Why will they accept me? If I am the redeemer I have to look after them isn’t it? But they are not going to accept me at all. On the contrary they’ll be against me because their activities are either money activities or you can say the other organisational activities and all these nonsensical activities, which has no meaning as far as the Spirit is concerned.

So all such people who are extremely overpowered by these ideas…now just look at the dogmas that people are fighting for. Like, I can’t understand that Catholics and the Protestants are saying that there are lots of differences. How can you have when the essence is Christ. Essence is Christ. How can you have differences if you believe in Christ. At least on that point you cannot have difference. And once you have all these dogmas covering you and these differences in you, you are identified all the time with something that is really dead, is done by your mental projection, so whatever this power may try, how far can you take it?

And from this deadening thing, when you start to get out of it, you will land up into another problems like these fake gurus. And they are on and on and on because for them it does not matter if somebody is ruined, somebody is suffering from any diseases, doesn’t matter at all, it is what they earn out of you. So they cheat you today. If you get out they have another lot which is willing to be cheated. They go on and on and on. They mesmerise you. They keep you completely under their control. They brainwash you. And there is nothing in between: one side is this darkness of organised ways of looking at things and another is this kind of mesmeric imprisonment from where you cannot get out. Where is the freedom?

And whatever one may try to work out it is impossible to convince a person who is enslave with his own will. Mesmerism is nothing but imprisonment with your own will. You have accepted to be mesmerised, you are accepting it, you are going on and on and when there is a pull still going on all the time that there’s something wrong with this person. There’s something wrong with this kind of Christianity and this kind of Hinduism and this kind of Islam and all those things. But still you go on with it because you have accepted that enslavement with your own desire. It sustains your ego. You think you have been with it throughout so you should [continue to] be. But what about your Spirit? What about getting your second birth? That is in future – next life! This life it’s not possible. It should not be an impossible task but the situation is such today that the whole world is in a trauma, in a shock and the people who know about the future don’t want to look at it, in a way, those who really can see it because it shows horrible things which can happen to us, the way we are moving. Those who know about it know it. And human beings are intelligent enough to understand that there is something definitely wrong with our whole system and we have not been able to correct it. Also they have reached this state. They are not ignorant people today. They are knowledgeable, they understand this. Whether they are with the science or not, whether they are with the Churches or not, in their heart of hearts I am sure there is a kind of an understanding which makes them understand [that] this is not the answer. Definitely they have this idea, I am sure of every one of them who are still a little bit left free. Maybe a priest would not think like that, but I can’t even think of a priest who would not think like that, “There’s something wrong with this system. I’m [going] on and on with this. I have been doing it every day, day in and day out, I’m preaching every day but that’s not the end.” I mean, if they are dishonest, if they could be dishonest to themselves to that extent I can’t say, but they must be thinking [that] there is a way out. But that doubting is killed every moment by giving a new supply of explanations. In the science also there are many people who understand that science is not the end of everything. It doesn’t give you answers to everything. In politics also people realise that it’s a confusion, you can’t say what is right, what is wrong.

The other day I was seeing a very peculiar type of an argument which was really very foreign to me as an Indian, that they were discussing whether to keep the children with the parents or not, how to remove the children, when to remove, how to delimit. I mean, I can’t think of an Indian ever proposing such a thing. Such a government will go to the dust in India if you say such a thing that, “We’ll remove your children from you.” But that’s a different society, this is a different society. But such a confusion between them that [they] didn’t know whether they should remove the children from the parents, they didn’t know whether, if you remove the children, then are you really going to help the children or not, if the parents are cruel what’s going to happen? I mean, I can’t think of parents being that cruel. I cannot think [like that] myself, because we had no wars. You had wars, maybe, people have become warmongers. Still, parents being that cruel that you have to remove children from them is something unnatural, absolutely unnatural, because nature has given you children and nature has given you that love and how is it that in between these two natural things some sort of an unnatural happening is taking place? But it is happening and these confusions only make it possible for me to say that, in this confusion only, man is doubting today, “Is this the meaning of our lives? Is it what we are seeking?” We have to be honest about it. If this doubt is there then maybe the Divine Power can work it out I am sure. But they don’t want to listen about it, they don’t want to know about it, they are not bothered about it. They are going the way they have been going, they are very happy. They say, “We are not seekers.” What does that mean that they are not seekers? Are they satisfied with themselves? Do we like the way we live?

But this freedom is not available, is not available. If you like the way you live, you may have cancer, who knows. You may have any disease. You may get mental problems. If not, your wife may divorce you, your children may leave you. I mean there are immediate problems which you may face, you do not know what’s happening today and what’s going to happen tomorrow. For example, I know somebody who is a very nice man and who is not a seeker and he openly told me, very nicely. No seeker, all right. We don’t discuss religion, all right. And his wife ran away. So he comes back on God, “Why God is doing such things?” I mean, “What have I done that God should punish me like this?” On what level are you just now? You are just thinking of leading a very mundane, ordinary life, but you cannot. This freedom is not available under the circumstances. It’s a time when there is an emergency, tremendous emergency, in the atmosphere, which we must understand. When we talk of the society, the decadent society, “this is happening,” what is it? It means that you are placed in a way, as if there is [a] plague, and you have to be careful about it, to find out ways and methods, the escape of it; where to get it. You cannot carry on with your mundane type of life even if you want to because the problems that are around you, in front of you, at the back of you, are so many that they will definitely take charge of you if you do not become your Spirit. It is like that.

If they don’t want to hear, all right, but they must know that there is God’s grace on this Earth. My Grandson who was only at that time four years of age – I don’t know how he knows so many Sanskrit words – he came to me [and said] that, “It’s most surprising that people don’t know that there is God’s grace working out everything.” He has told me. In Sanskrit it is ‘anukampa’. That, “God’s anukampa is there, they don’t know. What do you say to this? They don’t know.” He’s a Realised-soul, he’s a born Realised-soul, no doubt. But still [he’s] a little child, you know. He said, “They don’t know.” And he had that compassion, “Because they don’t know they are punished.” He had that sort of a feeling that, “They are blind and that’s why they are punished. They don’t know.” But he doesn’t know that they don’t want to know also. And why they don’t want to know is the second enquiry we should come up to.

The other day we had dinner with some very big leaders of your country, Labour leaders and Conservative leaders and all that, and I was surprised that they were amazed when I told them that I am a happy person. They said, “We are not. How can you be happy?” I said, “I am not only happy but I live in joy.” They said, “How can that be? We don’t know what joy is.” So I said, “Would you like to know?” They said, “No!” (laughter) They also told me, “In this country we don’t discuss religion.” I said, “It’s no question of religion. I am just talking about joy.” “No!” And what they were discussing among themselves, I must say, was something, I mean I don’t know how to and intelligent man this gossip business and this and that…All sorts of things they were discussing which had no relationship to their status or to their position in life or to anything whatsoever. I was wondering, “How are these great people?” When you reach near them you find they are so small, so mundane. There’s no subtlety in them. They don’t want to know about it perhaps because they are frightened. They are frightened to know that there is something higher than that. And this fear comes from ignorance, complete ignorance. Because that is the area of full joy, complete bliss and peace. All the nations have to rise to that so that there’s no fear, there’s no war. The war is because we are not integrated people. Individually we are not integrated. Like we’ll eat the food which doesn’t suit our body, we’ll desire for something which doesn’t suit our mind. We are so disintegrated. We live in seven personalities, fight with each other. And when these seven personalities get together we have collective fighting going on.

So, the confusion comes from within and from without and in this confusion only, I think human beings must seek. Now the stage has come where I have to tell people, “Please seek! For heaven’s sake seek God!” Christ has said that, but people don’t understand. They’ll stand on the pulpit and read out that Christ has said you must seek and you have to have your second birth. After that a big lecture follows – finished! These things are of very vital importance today. If they are neglected, nations after nations will be destroyed — nations after nations. It’s definite. The time is so short that’s why Realisation has to be quick. We cannot postpone it [until] tomorrow. I can do the same trick. Christina wrote to me, “Mother, we should never give realisation on the first [day]. If you give on the first day they’ll never turn up second day. You tell them, ‘Today is very difficult.’ Then next day you just raise Kundalini up to one chakra and keep it hanging there. Keep them hanging, never give them Realisation. Then reach the last stage when you are sure that they are the seekers. Otherwise it is like throwing pearls before the swines.” This exactly she has written to me. Of course I can’t do it because I see the emergency, I see what’s going to happen.

So many will be thrown away from the grace of God. So we have to work it out. Because those today who are refusing will come to me I know at a very later stage when it will not work out. The clicking of the mass Realisation will only work out if the seeking on your part is also of that magnitude. Otherwise, if there is a light and [it’s] kept under the table, how can it spread? You have to be prepared to get the masses. But how? Is the problem. The people in charge of all communications on this worldly life, I don’t know what they are seeking. They discuss all other nonsensical things but they don’t want to talk about Sahaj Yog. And the whole problem with me is [that] I can’t understand human beings on that level. I just can’t understand. How can they postpone it when they know it is evident, it is coming? It’s going to work out on them and they are going to face the greatest difficulties, very soon. It’s going to work out through their children, through their families, through societies, through nations. And this universal understanding has to become a collective understanding, then only, what the Divine Power is doing on its part will work out. Otherwise it is useless. You cannot blame God for that. It’s nice to blame God for everything. What about thinking about yourselves [and] what you are up to?

It’s true Kundalini awakening is a very difficult thing. It’s not easy to awaken the Kundalini, no doubt. One had to work for days together, for years together, they said even lives together. They had to go on cleansing themselves and then clearing out themselves for years and years and years and then the guru would raise your Kundalini. It’s a fact. But today the emergency has come and the Divine Power understands that this emergency is there. People have to get Realisation. That is how you are placed, in a very precarious way.

I do not know when people in charge of human beings will realise. They are supposed to be in charge, but up to what point? Up to what point? They have to realise that, if they do not accept their evolution, all those who are following them up and thinking them to be their leaders and ideals are blocked by their nonsensical lives that they are leading. But it’s hard because, as it is, to be leaders means that you must have big egos. And they don’t think that there is anything like God also. Just they use God because by that they can impress people. But there is no real understanding about God’s ways.

As it is Sahaja Yoga is doing a lot of work in this country. I can see that. And the people I have got are really beautiful people. They have become dynamic now. They are wonderful. But I must say we are very few compared to the population of this place and compared to the importance of England, which is the heart of the universe. We have to have many more and not only that but we have to have much deeper Sahaja Yogis who will go deep into themselves and would spread out and get more people to Sahaja Yoga.

I don’t want to talk about Kundalini again. Every time I have been repeating about it. You’ve got the books, you can see the new people who have come. Today I think there are very few new people but those who are there should come in front, without any fears or reservation. One should not feel bad if we say, “You come forward.” There is no show going on here. If you have come here for your Realisation you must come forward and get your Realisation. It’s not another kind of a lecture that is going on. We do not ask you to pay any money or anything, because you are deserving cases, because you want your Realisation. Like sensible people you must get your Realisation. Now you may say that, “We have come just to see and we have gone away.” This is an ego-trip I personally think. There’s no spying going on here. Have you come to spy here? Or why have you come? Are you from the newspaper? We have nothing to do with newspapers either. If you have come for your Realisation you should come and get it. It’s a simple thing. If you just want to sit here you disturb the vibrations of other people; you do not know that. A person who doesn’t want Realisation is no good for us and is troublesome and it irritates the good vibrations that are here. The Deities don’t like that. So I would request you not to feel afraid of it. There’s nothing to be afraid. There’s nothing to be angry. And don’t get into any ego-trips. Just get your Realisation. That is very important: for which you cannot pay. But that doesn’t give you a right to assert yourself the way you want to be. You have to little bit understand that this is a place, not Caxton Hall, but is a temple, where you have to get the blessings. If you don’t want to have it it’s an insult, so you better go. If you are here for not having it, it’s better not to come. It’s better not to insult. At least you should be so kind as not to insult. There is a way, of course, of telling people, because you must know that people don’t like it if you tell them like that. But you have come here for your Realisation and for nothing else.

It is my ardent desire, has been that the whole of this country should become Realised. Because I think it is one of the leading countries. It can change lots of things. But it is too much to expect, I believe, now. I have spent eight years. And from my experience I feel that this country has lost it’s moorings. It has lost it’s depth. It runs after things which are very superficial. They were known for their scholarship, for going into the details of the things, for finding out about rights and wrongs. And today I find the whole thing has become nothing but a matter of discussion and talking and showing off. There is no heart in it. This is the heart and if the heart fails the whole universe is going to suffer. To work it out we have tried everything. Whatever people have said I have accepted. If they have said, “Mother, you have to advertise.” I said, “Advertise. Do what you like, the way you want to do it you can do it.” We have tried everything but also, as I said, it can go to an extent; it has its own maryadas, its own boundaries, then it recedes.

If you have any questions please ask me.

Today I’m in a preparation mood because if you know there’s a big event coming and that was such a big event on this Earth. I don’t know how people have forgotten everything and just, the crucifixion has become a symbol of showing off. It’s very sad. It’s a very sad thing. If you have any questions please ask me.

Ask some questions.

Seeker: (inaudible)

Shri Mataji: Did you hear him? Come here, please, come forward.

Seeker: (inaudible)

Shri Mataji: No, no. You see, I know the question. You sit down, I’ll tell you. This question has been asked many a times, that: “Once you feel the cool breeze are you a Realised-soul?” Once you are born as a human being you are human being, isn’t it? Then you don’t become an animal. But you can, if you again go on living with other animals, you can. Supposing a human being becomes friendly with monkeys, he’ll start behaving like monkeys. But if he lives with human beings and develops himself and matures himself then he becomes a good, matured human being. For a human being to be all right he has to learn the ways and methods of the sustenance of his human qualities. Every human being who walks about is not a human being according to me. Some of them are monkeys, some of the are donkeys. Yes, to me they look like that, without their outer appearances, the way they talk, the way they behave, the way they are. And some of them are like jackals and things like that. Some are so aggressive and some are so secretive just like scorpions and like other animals which just crawl up; from some hole they’ll appear. You see, all these things are so dominantly there that, though they have got the human form, that [their] past is so dominantly there that you see nothing but a snake coming out from somewhere and just hissing at you.

So when you touch it, what do you touch? You touch this Divine Power which is surrounding you. That is the cool breeze you are feeling. Just you have touched it now. But your past is so great and you are identified with so many other things. And there are so many other problems with you that you have to come out of it completely. Like, as I have said, the egg has to become the bird. Now once the egg is broken, it must be a bird inside otherwise it won’t break, but the bird has to come out of the egg fully, otherwise it’s stuck with all the things that are in the egg. So some of the Sahaja Yogis have been who just came out and flew, spread their wings beautifully. I have seen that. But some are still sticking on because some of them think that Sahaja Yoga is here to solve their physical problems or their family problems or their somebody’s problems. You see, they are stuck up! I have seen people will bring all the family people who are suffering from cancer if I cure one cancer patient; I mean, [if] a cancer is cured automatically, supposing, of somebody. Then he goes and brings…there was in Poona, I gave Realisation to one fellow and his angina was cured and the doctor said, “You are completely cured!” So he got at least twelve people who were suffering from all kinds of diseases. Imagine, he had only twelve patients around. Otherwise he would have taken me to the hospital. And then, naturally, he loses his vibrations because that’s not the way [to progress]. You are just coming up, you have just touched outside, you are just out of the water, just breathed once, but that is what is Self-realisation. It’s not self-recognition as yet, it’s only Self-realisation. But recognition starts when you start understanding what this power is, how far you can go with it, what you can do it, how many people you can give Realisation to. [Only] then you become a Sahaja Yogi, you are not a Sahaja Yogi [before that]. I have known some people who are born Self-realised, good for nothing, absolutely useless people. They feel my vibrations, just as soon as they enter the room they’ll feel my vibrations – so what? They are thoroughly useless people. Now we have decided not to tell anyone that they are born-realised because their heads go off. Can you imagine? Even Self-realised people have this problem of ego. You have to outgrow. It’s just the connection [that] is established with the Self. But still the connection is so weak. All right?

That is what it is. You have to grow. But even touching that connection, itself, was a very difficult thing. But because it was difficult, people used to stick onto it. Because it is easy today they just take it for granted. But one has to do it fast, that’s all – I can’t help it. I know it has a reaction. But I have known people who got Realisation, they just said, “That’s it!” – Finished!

It’s like you are standing in the water and there are waves and you are frightened of the waves but somebody is dragging you onto a boat, you are not in the boat yet, you have touched the boat, you are just coming up. But you want to live with the crocodile as well. So the thing is going on. One foot in the crocodile’s mouth and one hand on the boat. But some just jump into it and then they see the waves, and they are not bothered, “These are waves, after all we are in the boat!” All right?

So it depends on the quality of a seeker, very much. Because the quality is now to be improved, after Self-realisation. It doesn’t matter: whatever is the quality you shouldn’t mind. Whatever is the quality can be improved. No problem! All right?

May God bless you.

Are you all right now or not? So you give up all your personal problems. Forget about them. You are so much shocked because you have come from and Indian family, but these problems will never shock English people. Because it’s very common and mundane. You come home and you find your wife is disappeared. It’s very common, nothing wrong in it (according to them). You see you are free to do what you like. So you should not be so much shocked about it and worried about anything like that. All right? If you have come to this country you must know [that] you have to pay for it! (laughing) Isn’t it? I mean, you may gain something in money but you may lose your wife or someone, can’t say. Yes, that’s very true. You see you have to. It’s very difficult. It’s very difficult. You can’t trust anyone in this respect here. Suddenly you will find you neighbour walking into your room and settling down there as the husband of your wife. It’s quite possible. So this is what it is and one should not be shocked about it now. I have reached that conclusion now. I tell all the Indians from abroad not to have any cultural shocks. They should be quite prepared for it or they should not stay here – finished. We have other shocks and they have other types of shocks, you see. So, to get out of all these things, one has to know that, by coming to England, you have gained your Realisation, and get to it — that’s the main thing. Is that the most important thing for you? Is it? If it is the most important thing then you have got it. But you should make it the most important also. All right? That’s how it is going to work out: make it as the most important thing, then you will be in joy. And you must spend it. If you have got your Self-realisation you have to give Realisation to others, isn’t it? And it’s so nice that Indians get it so fast, that’s also a great thing. You should be thankful that you get it so fast compared to others. All right? May God bless you.

Now what else is the question?

You see it’s a very complicated life here, one must understand, and in this complication there are problems no doubt. That’s why the Realisation works like that. You see, it moves with a snails pace, where it’s a jet age.

Shri Mataji: Yes please?

Seeker: (inaudible)

Shri Mataji: Great. What a nice question! He wants to know the relationship between the Self and the Divine Power of God. It’s such a nice question but requires at least half an hour. Self is the reflection of God within us, which is the Spirit, which resides in our heart, normally. And the Divine Power is the power of God which is his love, which desires, activates, creates and evolves. It evolves human beings after creating them, to such a point that they can feel this power through the connection of the Spirit. When you get connected to the Spirit then only you can feel this power around you, before that you do not feel anything. Because the one that can feel this power is your Spirit but the Spirit in the human consciousness is not conscious [this] means you cannot feel it on your central nervous system. But once you are Realised it starts acting in your central nervous system and that’s why you can feel it all around you. All right? I made it (the answer) rather short but in one of my lectures of Creation you might be able to understand it better. May God bless.

You see they say that there is All-pervading Power, everybody says that, isn’t it, in every scripture. But how do you know? In Vedas they have said about Bharga, they have talked about Bhargo. So you can imagine, even that time they knew there is Divine Power around us. But how can you see it? How can you feel it? That means human level is not sufficient. You have to rise up to a certain higher level and that level is where you become the Spirit and Spirit is the Collective Being within you. That’s the collective, that’s the connecting line. I cannot give any example because it’s such an absolute thing. It cannot be relative. But something that exists within you which is collectively connected, part of the collective, which is conscious of it’s collectivity. And once you get connected you get collectively conscious, not only that but your central nervous system gets activated [this] means it has a greater dimension in itself and you start feeling the All-pervading Power. You can start feeling the vibrations of another person. You can see in that person where is the problem and you can see in yourself where is the problem by feeling it on your fingers.

This should happen to you. If this does not happen to you all other things are useless. This is what it is, what Christ has said, what everybody has said, and if it is not happening [there’s] no use going to church on every Sunday. No use, it’s just a waste of time. No use ringing the bells or singing the praise of God or anything – it’s all useless. If you cannot get to that, that means the ladders are wrong, you are climbing the wrong ladders. All right?

So any other question from Sahaja Yogis will be a good idea.

(Break in audio. Yogi probably asks question about family and giving Realisation to them but it’s not on the audio.)

Shri Mataji: Now you see, you have to decide like this: if he’s not interested, give him up. Because he’s your family: so it’s an accident [that he got Realisation]. Just forget it! Don’t waste your energies with these people. Christ has said clearly, “Don’t throw pearls before some people.” All right? So that’s what it is. If he is a seeker then it’s a different point. No use breaking your head against a wall. But if he is a seeker, all right, then you can work it out in your own ways, if you know about Sahaja Yoga, how to work it out. A seeker may be all right.

We have had such experiences of family people, very absurd, you know. You just don’t know. There was a gentleman who came to see me who was the father of one of the Sahaja Yogis. I gave him Realisation. And he is a drunkard, and he gave up his drinking for some time, but his wife said, “What is this? This is not our culture! We have to have drinking otherwise how are we to entertain people?” or whatever it is. He was again drawn into that society. So, just imagine, to say, “This is our culture!” (laughing). Again [he was] drawn into the same society. And she’s a big Catholic! And she said, “You must confess your sins!” And one of the sins he must have confessed [is] that he got his Realisation, I am sure! And then, so much so that he lost everything, and he’s a drunkard now. He sleeps and gone. Now the son and the daughter who are great Sahaja Yogis today, have given them up, finished! How far can you go with them? Do you see the point?

So, under the circumstances, one should find out if he is a seeker. If he is not a seeker, no use talking to him about anything whatsoever. It’s a waste. I tell you it’s a waste. But I have seen [that] non-seekers are very much attracted towards people who have superficial things and they have a pompous show and things. They are very much attracted. And they will ruin their lives like that. And how far can you go with them? I mean, you should try but what can you do? Like, another Sahaja Yogini, she had a son who became like a criminal personality. Then she said, “Mother, how to give him Realisation?” I said, “No forget it! Now if the police is arresting him, what can you do? Give up!” That I said, that, you can go up to a point, up to an extent, but beyond that you cannot force people to be Realised, you cannot. They have to get it themselves, they have to ask for it. There’s a protocol of the Divine Power. You cannot fall at their feet. After all, for what? It is for their gain, not for our gain. We don’t take any money, nothing of the kind. We are doing it for their gain. They should ask for it, isn’t it. Or should we fall at their feet, “Take your Realisation! Take your Realisation!” Is it expected? That’s going too far!

So forget about such people who do not care for Realisation. Forget it! If you think you can bring them round, well and good, otherwise don’t go too far otherwise you will lose your vibrations I can tell you.

You will lose your Realisation. That happens. But I must say, Sahaja Yogis are very sensible.

Any other question?

Are you still involved in your family so much? Are you still very much involved?

Yogini: (inaudible)

Shri Mataji: Your husband? If it comes from a wife they’ll not have it — that’s another point about men. You better try it through some other Sahaja Yogis. You see, men are such that, if it comes from the wife they may not have it. Yes, it’s true. So better try some other Sahaja Yogis to talk to him. If he is a seeker you should try, otherwise forget it. When you were married you were not a Realised-soul, so it’s all right. If you believe in many lives, how many times you must have been married before also? (laughing)

Yes, any other question please?

Gavin: Is there anything we can do to increase the vibrations?

Shri Mataji: Actually Gavin, I feel here everybody is not a Sahaja Yogi, and this we should discuss separately because this will be another secret working we’ll have to do. So I think we’ll do it next time when I meet you in the ashram. Will that be all right Gavin? Because what we can do, we can do a lot. I think you people can do a lot, no doubt, and that’s how I had exactly in my mind to tell you but I just wanted to see. I feel today, it would be not very good because the people who are here may be new and you know how they get shocked if you tell them anything like that. Of course, nothing that you are going to do that is anyway wrong or anything, but they won’t understand, I mean to say. Our terminology is different from theirs and they are absolutely new so they won’t understand our terminology when we say about bandhans and this and that, so it’s better to discuss it amongst Sahaja Yogis only where one can understand all the terminology, otherwise they’ll be quite shocked thinking that this is another language we are speaking.

About the new people who have got Realisation and have been here for more than three times should come to our programme on the seventh, will be a good idea. Those new people who have got Realisation, and who have been to the programme three times, should come to the new ashram on the seventh of April. I hope you know the address of the new ashram. Who are like that? People who are new and who have got Realisation.

You touched your Realisation the other day. No? You did. And you have been coming to our programmes, so you please come. All right? Who else? Yes, please come, if you don’t mind.

This gentleman has come today? Is he feeling the cool breeze? Are you feeling the cool breeze.

Seeker: Not yet.

Shri Mataji: All right. It will work out. And have you come for the first time today? All right. Just put your hands towards me. Just like this. Let’s see. Just like this.

You all have to feel the cool breeze. If you don’t feel the cool breeze then we cannot talk about it. You have to feel the cool breeze, the All-pervading Power. Unless and until that has happened we cannot say we have touched it. But so many will not feel on the hand in the beginning. So we should see that it comes out of your head, from the brahmarandhra, is the fontanelle bone area. If there is a cool breeze coming out of your head from here then you should know that you have touched it.

Now please put both the hands towards me and close your eyes.

Just close your eyes.

Put both the hands towards me and both the feet on the ground, touching the ground.

Just put your, both, the hands.

Just close your eyes.

Come here, come, come here. There’s a place here. Come along!

Him also, if he could come here, will be a good idea. This gentleman at the end Gavin, he’s come for the first time. It’s better.

Just put your hands like this and please close your eyes. Please close your eyes.

Yes, please come forward, come forward. Will be a good idea. See? As we have to see that you get it. It is the becoming which is important, it’s not just giving a lecture, you have to become. If you do not become then it has no meaning. It’s the becoming that is important. Please. Please come. It’s good.

We have to see that you get it. That’s our main interest and concern, nothing else!

Do come all of you please. Please come forward. Very sweet. Come along, make yourself comfortable. Come along.

Please come, there’s a seat here. Just join, here there’s a seat, come along. Sit down.

Put your both the hands.

Close your eyes, close your eyes. Don’t keep your eyes open.

(End of recording)