Informal Talk Following Easter Puja, Comments on the Devi Bhagavatam

Nirmala Palace - Nightingale Lane Ashram, London (England)

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Informal Talk Following Easter Puja, Comments on the Devi Bhagavatam. Nightingale Lane Ashram, London (UK), 11 April 1982.

Shri Mataji [1]: Now, can you read it? Now is it started? [FV: The yogis are waiting for a radio broadcast.]

Yogis: somebody has to set the frequency… The right frequency for ¬

[PAUSE IN RECORDING. It resumes as a yogi reads psalm 133 aloud]:

Gavin: “(1) Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! (2) It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron’s beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments; (3) As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the Lord commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.”

Shri Mataji: See? It’s very beautifully found out, I must say.

[PAUSE IN RECORDING, IT RESUMES WITH GAVIN HAVING STARTED READING FROM THE “SRIMAD DEVI BHAGAVATAM,” BOOK 9, CHAPTER 3]

Gavin: “Narayana said:– ‘O Devarsi! The egg (born of Mula Prakriti) that was floating in the waters for a period equal to the life period of Brahma, now in the fullness of time separated into two parts. Within that egg there was a powerful child, lustrous like one thousand millions of suns.'”

Shri Mataji: Suns. See.

Gavin: “‘This child could not suck mother’s milk as it was forsaken by Her. So, being tired of hunger, the child, for a moment, cried repeatedly.'”

Shri Mataji: Forsaken because he had to grow.

Gavin: “‘The child that will become the lord of countless Brahmandas (universes) -‘”

Shri Mataji: Countless Brahmandas. Brahmandas are universes.

Gavin: “‘…now an orphan having no father nor mother began to look upwards from the waters. This boy came to be denominated afterwards by the name of Maha Virat when he became gross and grosser. As there is nothing finer than radium, so there is nothing grosser than Maha Virat. The power of this Maha Virat (is) one-sixteenth of that of Shri Krishna, the Highest Self. But this boy-‘”

Shri Mataji: That is Yehova.

Gavin: “‘…But this boy, (born of the Prakruti Radha) is the Sole Stay of all this Universe – ‘”

Shri Mataji: Sole Stay.

Gavin: “‘…he is denominated by the name “Maha Vishnu”. In his every pore countless universes are existing. So much so that even Shri Krishna could not count them. If it were possible to count the number of dust particles, it is impossible to count the number of the universes. So there are endless Brahmas, Vishnus, and Maheshvaras. In every Brahmanda, there is Brahma, Vishnu, and Mahesha. Each Brahmanda extends from Patala to the Brahmaloka. The abode of Vaikuntha is higher than that (i.e. it is situated outside of Brahmanda), again the abode of Goloka is fifty koti yojanas (50 x 10 x 4 x 2 million miles) higher than Vaikuntha. This Goloka Dhama is eternal and real as Shri Krishna is eternal and real. This world composed of the seven islands is surrounded by the seven oceans. Forty-nine Upa Dvipas (smaller islands adjacent to them) exist here. Besides there are countless mountains and forests. Higher than this earth is the Brahmaloka with seven heavens and below this are the seven Patalas. This is the bounding limit of Brahmanda. Just above this earth there is the Bhoorloka, above is Bhuvaloka, then Swarloka, then Janarloka, then Taparloka, then Satyaloka, and above that …'”

Shri Mataji: Mahaloka. Mahaloka not there? Maha, –

Gavin: Brahmaloka.

Shri Mataji: -Bhoor, Buhva, Swaha? They call it Brahma.

Gavin: Bhoor, Bhuva, Swaha-

Shri Mataji: -Swaha, Tapah.

Gavin: Janar-

Shri Mataji: -Janar. Tapah.

Gavin: -Satya and Brahmaloka. “‘The splendor of Brahmaloka is like that of molten gold. But all the substances whether outside or inside this Brahmaloka, are transient. When this Brahmanda dissolves, everything dissolves and is destroyed. All are temporary like bubbles of water. Only Goloka and Vaikuntha are eternal. In every pore of this Maha Virat is existing one Brahmanda …'”

Shri Mataji: Hmm. Pore means any – every – what you call this, pore of the skin. One Brahmanda exists in Christ.

Gavin: “‘What to speak of others when even Krishna cannot count the number of these Brahmandas. In every Brahmanda there is Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesha. O Child Narada! In every Brahmanda, the number of the gods is three kotis or 30 millions. Some of them are the Dikpatis (the Regents of the quarters); some are the Dikpalas (the Rulers of the quarters), some are asterisms, and some are planets. In the Bhurloka, there are four Varnas (Brahmins, etc.,) and in the Patalas there are Nagas. Thus the Universe exists composed of moveable and non-moveable things (This is Brahmanda Vivriti). O Nârada! Now the Virat Purusha began to look up to the skies again and again but He could not see anything within that egg except the void. Then distressed with hunger He cried out repeatedly and became merged in anxiety. Next moment getting back His consciousness, He began to think of Krishna, the Highest Person and saw there at once the eternal light of Brahma. He saw there His form as deep blue like new rain-cloud; with two bands [FV: Original text reads “hands”], garment of a yellow color, sweet smile on His face, flute in His hand and He seemed to be very anxious to show His Grace to Devotees. Looking at the Lord, His Father, the boy became glad and smiled. The Lord, the bestower of boon, granted him boons appropriate for that moment. Oh child let you possess knowledge like me, let your hunger and thirst vanish: let you . . .'”

Shri Mataji: See. Hunger and thirst vanish. He fasted for forty days. See, all the indications are there.

Gavin: “‘…let you be the holder of innumerable Brahmandas till the time of Pralaya (the universal dissolution). Be without any selfishness, be fearless and the bestower of boons to all. Let not old age, death, disease, sorrow or any other ailings afflict thee. ‘”

Shri Mataji: This is the sign of a Brahma Shakti. He Himself has said before that the Brahma Shakti, or the Spirit does not die, does not get old and all that, and He’s telling him all that.

Gavin: “‘Thus saying, He repeated thrice on his ear the six-lettered great Mantra “Om Krishnaya Swaha” worshipped by the Vedas with their Amgas, the Giver of desires and the destroyer of all troubles and calamities. O Brahma’s Son! Thus giving the mantra, Shri Krishna arranged for His feeding thus. In every universe whatever offerings will be given to Shri Krishna, one sixteenth of that will go to Narayana, the Lord of Vaikuntha, and fifteen sixteenth is to go to this boy the Virat. ‘”

Shri Mataji: He is Narayana also, Shri Krishna is Narayana you see. So one sixteenth will go to Narayana and fifteen sixteenth to His son.

Gavin: “‘Shri Krishna did not allot any share for Himself. Himself transcending all the Gunas, and Full, He is always satisfied with Himself. What necessity is there for any further offerings? Whatever the people offer with devotion, the Lord of Lakshmi, the Virat eats all these. Bhagavan Shri Krishna giving thus to the Virat the boon and the mantra said, “Oh child, say what more you desire. I will give you that instantly.” The Virat boy hearing thus the words of Shri Krishna spoke. “O, Thou Omnipresent, I have got no desires whatsoever, save this that as long as I live, whether for a short time or for a long time, let me have pure bhakti towards Thy Lotus Feet. ‘”

Shri Mataji: That’s why, always Christ has these fingers like this, one denoting towards Shri Krishna and another towards Vishnu. He’s talked of His Father throughout. For a short time or for a long time, He lived for a short time and for a long time.

Gavin: “‘In this world he is Jivanmukta (liberated whilst living) who is your Bhakta; and that bewildered fool is dead while living who is devoid of any Bhakti to Thee. What needs he to perform Japam, asceticism, sacrifice, worship, holding fasts and observances, going to sacred places of pilgrimages and other virtuous acts if he be without any bhakti to Shri Krishna? Vain is his life who is devoid of any devotion to Shri Krishna, under Whose Grace he has obtained his life and Whom he does not now pay homage and worship. He is endowed with Shakti as long as Atma resides in his body; no sooner the Atma departs from his body all the Shaktis accompany him. O Great One! And thou art the Universal Atman (soul) who transcends Prakriti, Who is All will, the Primeval Person -‘”

Shri Mataji: See?

Gavin: “‘-and of the nature of the Highest Light. O Child! Thus saying, the Virat boy remained silent. Shri Krishna then spoke in sweet words, “Oh child, let you remain as fresh as ever like Me. You will not have any fall even if innumerable Brahmas pass away.

“Let you divide yourself in parts and turn into smaller Virats in every universe. ‘”

Shri Mataji: That’s what He did.

Gavin: “‘Brahma will spring from Your navel and will create the cosmos. From the forehead of that Brahma will spring eleven rudras for the destruction of the creation. ‘”

Shri Mataji: See.

Gavin: “‘But they will all be parts of Shiva. ‘”

Shri Mataji: That is given by Shiva to Him. See, the eleven parts are given to this child by Shiva.

Gavin: The Rudra named Kalagni, of these eleven Rudras, will be the destroyer of all this Vishvas (the cosmos). Besides, from each of your sub-divisions, the Vishnu will originate and that Bhagavan Vishnu will be the Preserver of this Vishvu world. I say that under my favor you will always be full of Bhakti towards Me and no sooner you meditate on Me, you will be able to see My lovely form. There is no doubt in this; and your Mother, Who resides in My breast, will not be difficult for you to see. ‘”

Shri Mataji [PROBABLY AN ASIDE]: Better to save it [UNCLEAR]

Gavin: “‘Let you remain here in ease and comfort. I now go to Goloka. Saying thus Shri Krishna, the Lord of the world disappeared. ‘”

Shri Mataji: See, it’s so clear cut. Better send it to this Archbishop of Canterbury. What does he understand about Christ? That every pore of His skin is one Brahmanda. So He became very gross, you see, in the sense that He came down on this earth, you see, and then He became the Spirit. That’s why it is said, His “only Son.” . . .

[END OF COMMENTARY. TAPE CONTINUES WITH A POEM & SOME Q. & A.]

Man: Mother?

It’s called “Resurrection Sunday.”

We wandered lost in this confused age
You came to us like rain to a scorched plain.
We made so many foolish mistakes
But You laughed and loved us even more.
We walked always seeking Messiah’s return
And then You came with open arms.
We closed our hearts and ran our love dry
And You refreshed us with cooling Grace.
Mother, O Mother, River of Love
You wash our troubles away.
Mother, O Mother, Ocean of Joy
You are opening our flowers.

We struggled hard inside our shells
You took the eggs and made the doves.
We cried for love and forgot how to be
You wiped our tears and let us see.
We needed the fulfillment of Christ’s words
And then Mother Mary, You gave us true second birth.
We languished in our man-made tombs
Divine Redeemer, You rolled away the stone.
Mother, O Mother, River of Love
You wash all troubles away.
Mother, O Mother, Ocean of Joy
You are open all the flowers.

Shri Mataji: Beautiful. It’s like a mantra working on My vibrations.

So our programs are fixed for different days and now I’ve received a letter from –

[RECORDING PAUSED]

…Even tell somebody “You have to get married, suddenly they … [silence] … as if somebody has stuck a pistol! That’s the first reaction I have seen many a times.

Pat has not come today?

Lady: No, [Kershan?] is not very well, Mother.

Shri Mataji: Hmm?

Lady: [Kershan’s?] still not very well; in fact he’s very sick.

Shri Mataji: I know, poor thing.

Lady: We’d like to come and see You next week, [INDISTINCT: “if we can be here for the …?].

Shri Mataji: I have told … her problem is basically something different, and I have told the solution and I’ve asked Gavin, Gavin to find out? Did you ask Sara?

Gavin: I didn’t get the chance just yet.

Shri Mataji: But Sara is here, you can talk to her. You see we have a, we had a doctor in India called Dr Sh-

[RECORDING PAUSED]

…done, what? So why should we worry? Everything is done for you, I mean lucky people I must say. Like guests, you see? That others have to do everything for you, and you have the fruits of it. Isn’t it a good situation? But still you look so worried. As we say. There’s a dog walking under a cart. He looks very worried because he thinks he’s carrying the cart, you see? And the poor – the one, one, the bullocks which are pulling the cart are quite happy.

Is it true that in Islam they hate dogs?

Man: No.

Shri Mataji: No? No. They don’t hate dogs. In Iran they – I don’t know why they hate dogs so much. Somebody was telling Me that they ill-treat dogs, absolutely. I said “Surprisingly?”

Men: Same with Asia. [INDISTINCT…] animals in general are not well treated. They’re very badly treated You know?

Shri Mataji: Badly treated. Because, you see they have become little insensitive to animals, I think so. Like here people treat the dogs very kindly, but their children very unkindly. Is other way round. I mean it’s… you just don’t understand, it’s a mystery as I said.

[PAUSE IN RECORDING]

…who want to see Me, can come. Tomorrow evening I’ll be at home. All right? About say, six o’clock. Then Sahastrara Puja must be fixed in the evening so that everybody can make it. Say about seven o’clock, that would be good. Many people can come there – evening because it’s a Wednesday or something. It’s a Wednesday? So Tuesday-Wednesday-Thursday- Friday, perhaps? It’s a Wednesday? Are you sure? Because if second is Tuesday…

Man softly: Second is Sunday.

Shri Mataji: Hm? Second is Tuesday.

Man: No it’s Sunday, Mother.

Shri Mataji: Is a Sunday. Then it’s all right, Wednesday. So one should try to have it about seven o’clock, so that other’s can come in for the puja.

Now, is it over?

Man: [UNCLEAR: Both/Pope?] John Glower is here, he’s supposed to have been …

Shri Mataji: Where is he?

Man: [INDISTINCT: Sorbiton.]

SIDE B 06’28” – 14’08” [THE LAST 8 MINUTES OF A RADIO INTERVIEW WITH A SAHAJ YOGI ABOUT SAHAJA YOGA IS BROADCAST, AT THE END OF WHICH THE ANNOUNCER SAYS:] “And should you be interested, She’s holding a meeting at Caxton Hall on Wednesday the fourteenth of April at 7pm, everyone is welcome.”

[THE YOGIS CHEER AND APPLAUD THE BROADCAST.]

Shri Mataji: Become empowered by your own powers. You yourself know, you can feel it, the other person, you can feel yourself and you know how to maneuver, you see, this Kundalini of others; you can give realizations to others; you can cure others; your power is released. Your power of your Spirit is released on your central nervous system. That would be really convincing; that is not My power, it’s your own power you can feel.

Lady: [INDISTINCT AT FIRST] … within, the people from other groups, they do all say, very much, the same as we do… [INDISTINCT]

Shri Mataji: That’s it. Just talking is very easy. You see if you read some books, then talk. See if they read a Sahaj Yoga book, they can say, “I have a Kundalini awakening. I can see the chakras. I can [INDISTINCT: I don’t know what to say.]

Ask them, “Can you feel our chakras?” that’s all. Then what do they agree? Then what do they say; are they going to come?

Lady: …

Shri Mataji: I think you should go and meet them, again and again. You see, [UNCLEAR NAME: Amar Samati] asked – he went to Santa Cruz, absolutely a new place – and he met people and talked to them and told them, “See, you are not feeling anything, why are you adhering to any group, for what; for paying money, for what? Because you have been doing it, but you are not feeling any vibrations, nothing; you are not feeling anything, you have no powers.” And he convinced them.

And I said, “There will be at least five to six hundred people,” and there were – more than that for that program.

That’s what you have to go and tell them, “What have you got? You haven’t got any powers. We have, we can feel you. We know this is what, this your chakra is here, that is there.” That’s the thing.

Lady: [INDISTINCT] …and I asked one of them [INDISTINCT: actually?] what enlightenment was. And he gave me a very [UNCLEAR: scary?] answer. And I put it to him, “Do you think you’ll get it in this lifetime?

And he says: “Oh I don’t know, I think it might be possible.”

And I said, “Well, how will you know it when you get it?”

He said, “Oh, I suppose it will dawn on me one day.” And when he said that he completely [INDISTINCT: changed?]

Shri Mataji: It will what, it will what?

Lady: He said, “I suppose it will dawn on me one day.” And I …[INDISTINCT.]

Shri Mataji: Good, good.

I’m also sending – you see these… Somehow, in my husband’s job, I meet people who are seekers and who are placed at the helm of affairs. I’m sending them books, you see? And I want to send one of the, one of our book, to Indonesia. There’s an ambassador from Indonesia who’s very anxious, so he’s been writing to my husband that, “You haven’t sent the book as yet.” So we have to send it there.

Lady: Mother, Warren had set this cassette up, it’s the first VHS copy of the Big match this Saturday. He set it up –

[PAUSE IN RECORDING]

Shri Mataji: [INDISTINCT: Shines from, looks like….

[PAUSE IN RECORDING]

It will become a cult once he starts tolerating everything. Just write to him that, “You become a cult then, you don’t become a living church. The living things know how to discard, what to accept.”

[TWO SNIPPET RECORDINGS OF A FEW SECONDS EACH, THEN:]

Shri Mataji: What’s in there? Gavin? That’s [INDISTINCT WORD]. That’s too much. I don’t know how you should think of all these things, really it’s too much.

Lady: Mother, this is a real egg.

Shri Mataji: It’s a real egg.

Lady: Yes, Mother.

Shri Mataji: I know I can see the [FEW SECONDS INTERFERENCE ON MICROPHONE] … must be ducks egg.

[PAUSE IN RECORDING THEN AN OUTDOOR RECORDING, POSSIBLY A HAVAN:]

Shri Mataji: “Many people should come to Sahaj Yoga and that Sahaj Yoga should be accepted by people and that it should spread like wildfire in the West.” Ask the Agni itself, one hand towards that, one hand towards Me.

== Transcript begins here ==
NOTE: Shri Mataji states in the preceding Easter talk that the text to be read is from the Devi Mahatmyam. It is actually the Devi Bhagavatam.

Transcription starts here:

Shri Mataji: Now, can you read it? Now is it started? [FV: The yogis are waiting for a radio broadcast.]

Yogis: somebody has to set the frequency… The right frequency for ¬

[PAUSE IN RECORDING. It resumes as a yogi reads psalm 133 aloud]:

Gavin: “(1) Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! (2) It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron’s beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments; (3) As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the Lord commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.”

Shri Mataji: See? It’s very beautifully found out, I must say.

[PAUSE IN RECORDING, IT RESUMES WITH GAVIN HAVING STARTED READING FROM THE “SRIMAD DEVI BHAGAVATAM,” BOOK 9, CHAPTER 3]

Gavin: “Narayana said:– ‘O Devarsi! The egg (born of Mula Prakriti) that was floating in the waters for a period equal to the life period of Brahma, now in the fullness of time separated into two parts. Within that egg there was a powerful child, lustrous like one thousand millions of suns.'”

Shri Mataji: Suns. See.

Gavin: “‘This child could not suck mother’s milk as it was forsaken by Her. So, being tired of hunger, the child, for a moment, cried repeatedly.'”

Shri Mataji: Forsaken because he had to grow.

Gavin: “‘The child that will become the lord of countless Brahmandas (universes) -‘”

Shri Mataji: Countless Brahmandas. Brahmandas are universes.

Gavin: “‘…now an orphan having no father nor mother began to look upwards from the waters. This boy came to be denominated afterwards by the name of Maha Virat when he became gross and grosser. As there is nothing finer than radium, so there is nothing grosser than Maha Virat. The power of this Maha Virat (is) one-sixteenth of that of Shri Krishna, the Highest Self. But this boy-‘”

Shri Mataji: That is Yehova.

Gavin: “‘…But this boy, (born of the Prakruti Radha) is the Sole Stay of all this Universe – ‘”

Shri Mataji: Sole Stay.

Gavin: “‘…he is denominated by the name “Maha Vishnu”. In his every pore countless universes are existing. So much so that even Shri Krishna could not count them. If it were possible to count the number of dust particles, it is impossible to count the number of the universes. So there are endless Brahmas, Vishnus, and Maheshvaras. In every Brahmanda, there is Brahma, Vishnu, and Mahesha. Each Brahmanda extends from Patala to the Brahmaloka. The abode of Vaikuntha is higher than that (i.e. it is situated outside of Brahmanda), again the abode of Goloka is fifty koti yojanas (50 x 10 x 4 x 2 million miles) higher than Vaikuntha. This Goloka Dhama is eternal and real as Shri Krishna is eternal and real. This world composed of the seven islands is surrounded by the seven oceans. Forty-nine Upa Dvipas (smaller islands adjacent to them) exist here. Besides there are countless mountains and forests. Higher than this earth is the Brahmaloka with seven heavens and below this are the seven Patalas. This is the bounding limit of Brahmanda. Just above this earth there is the Bhoorloka, above is Bhuvaloka, then Swarloka, then Janarloka, then Taparloka, then Satyaloka, and above that …'”

Shri Mataji: Mahaloka. Mahaloka not there? Maha, –

Gavin: Brahmaloka.

Shri Mataji: -Bhoor, Buhva, Swaha? They call it Brahma.

Gavin: Bhoor, Bhuva, Swaha-

Shri Mataji: -Swaha, Tapah.

Gavin: Janar-

Shri Mataji: -Janar. Tapah.

Gavin: -Satya and Brahmaloka. “‘The splendor of Brahmaloka is like that of molten gold. But all the substances whether outside or inside this Brahmaloka, are transient. When this Brahmanda dissolves, everything dissolves and is destroyed. All are temporary like bubbles of water. Only Goloka and Vaikuntha are eternal. In every pore of this Maha Virat is existing one Brahmanda …'”

Shri Mataji: Hmm. Pore means any – every – what you call this, pore of the skin. One Brahmanda exists in Christ.

Gavin: “‘What to speak of others when even Krishna cannot count the number of these Brahmandas. In every Brahmanda there is Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesha. O Child Narada! In every Brahmanda, the number of the gods is three kotis or 30 millions. Some of them are the Dikpatis (the Regents of the quarters); some are the Dikpalas (the Rulers of the quarters), some are asterisms, and some are planets. In the Bhurloka, there are four Varnas (Brahmins, etc.,) and in the Patalas there are Nagas. Thus the Universe exists composed of moveable and non-moveable things (This is Brahmanda Vivriti). O Nârada! Now the Virat Purusha began to look up to the skies again and again but He could not see anything within that egg except the void. Then distressed with hunger He cried out repeatedly and became merged in anxiety. Next moment getting back His consciousness, He began to think of Krishna, the Highest Person and saw there at once the eternal light of Brahma. He saw there His form as deep blue like new rain-cloud; with two bands [FV: Original text reads “hands”], garment of a yellow color, sweet smile on His face, flute in His hand and He seemed to be very anxious to show His Grace to Devotees. Looking at the Lord, His Father, the boy became glad and smiled. The Lord, the bestower of boon, granted him boons appropriate for that moment. Oh child let you possess knowledge like me, let your hunger and thirst vanish: let you . . .'”

Shri Mataji: See. Hunger and thirst vanish. He fasted for forty days. See, all the indications are there.

Gavin: “‘…let you be the holder of innumerable Brahmandas till the time of Pralaya (the universal dissolution). Be without any selfishness, be fearless and the bestower of boons to all. Let not old age, death, disease, sorrow or any other ailings afflict thee. ‘”

Shri Mataji: This is the sign of a Brahma Shakti. He Himself has said before that the Brahma Shakti, or the Spirit does not die, does not get old and all that, and He’s telling him all that.

Gavin: “‘Thus saying, He repeated thrice on his ear the six-lettered great Mantra “Om Krishnaya Swaha” worshipped by the Vedas with their Amgas, the Giver of desires and the destroyer of all troubles and calamities. O Brahma’s Son! Thus giving the mantra, Shri Krishna arranged for His feeding thus. In every universe whatever offerings will be given to Shri Krishna, one sixteenth of that will go to Narayana, the Lord of Vaikuntha, and fifteen sixteenth is to go to this boy the Virat. ‘”

Shri Mataji: He is Narayana also, Shri Krishna is Narayana you see. So one sixteenth will go to Narayana and fifteen sixteenth to His son.

Gavin: “‘Shri Krishna did not allot any share for Himself. Himself transcending all the Gunas, and Full, He is always satisfied with Himself. What necessity is there for any further offerings? Whatever the people offer with devotion, the Lord of Lakshmi, the Virat eats all these. Bhagavan Shri Krishna giving thus to the Virat the boon and the mantra said, “Oh child, say what more you desire. I will give you that instantly.” The Virat boy hearing thus the words of Shri Krishna spoke. “O, Thou Omnipresent, I have got no desires whatsoever, save this that as long as I live, whether for a short time or for a long time, let me have pure bhakti towards Thy Lotus Feet. ‘”

Shri Mataji: That’s why, always Christ has these fingers like this, one denoting towards Shri Krishna and another towards Vishnu. He’s talked of His Father throughout. For a short time or for a long time, He lived for a short time and for a long time.

Gavin: “‘In this world he is Jivanmukta (liberated whilst living) who is your Bhakta; and that bewildered fool is dead while living who is devoid of any Bhakti to Thee. What needs he to perform Japam, asceticism, sacrifice, worship, holding fasts and observances, going to sacred places of pilgrimages and other virtuous acts if he be without any bhakti to Shri Krishna? Vain is his life who is devoid of any devotion to Shri Krishna, under Whose Grace he has obtained his life and Whom he does not now pay homage and worship. He is endowed with Shakti as long as Atma resides in his body; no sooner the Atma departs from his body all the Shaktis accompany him. O Great One! And thou art the Universal Atman (soul) who transcends Prakriti, Who is All will, the Primeval Person -‘”

Shri Mataji: See?

Gavin: “‘-and of the nature of the Highest Light. O Child! Thus saying, the Virat boy remained silent. Shri Krishna then spoke in sweet words, “Oh child, let you remain as fresh as ever like Me. You will not have any fall even if innumerable Brahmas pass away.

“Let you divide yourself in parts and turn into smaller Virats in every universe. ‘”

Shri Mataji: That’s what He did.

Gavin: “‘Brahma will spring from Your navel and will create the cosmos. From the forehead of that Brahma will spring eleven rudras for the destruction of the creation. ‘”

Shri Mataji: See.

Gavin: “‘But they will all be parts of Shiva. ‘”

Shri Mataji: That is given by Shiva to Him. See, the eleven parts are given to this child by Shiva.

Gavin: The Rudra named Kalagni, of these eleven Rudras, will be the destroyer of all this Vishvas (the cosmos). Besides, from each of your sub-divisions, the Vishnu will originate and that Bhagavan Vishnu will be the Preserver of this Vishvu world. I say that under my favor you will always be full of Bhakti towards Me and no sooner you meditate on Me, you will be able to see My lovely form. There is no doubt in this; and your Mother, Who resides in My breast, will not be difficult for you to see. ‘”

Shri Mataji [PROBABLY AN ASIDE]: Better to save it [UNCLEAR]

Gavin: “‘Let you remain here in ease and comfort. I now go to Goloka. Saying thus Shri Krishna, the Lord of the world disappeared. ‘”

Shri Mataji: See, it’s so clear cut. Better send it to this Archbishop of Canterbury. What does he understand about Christ? That every pore of His skin is one Brahmanda. So He became very gross, you see, in the sense that He came down on this earth, you see, and then He became the Spirit. That’s why it is said, His “only Son.” . . .

[END OF COMMENTARY. TAPE CONTINUES WITH A POEM & SOME Q. & A.]

Man: Mother?

It’s called “Resurrection Sunday.”

We wandered lost in this confused age
You came to us like rain to a scorched plain.
We made so many foolish mistakes
But You laughed and loved us even more.
We walked always seeking Messiah’s return
And then You came with open arms.
We closed our hearts and ran our love dry
And You refreshed us with cooling Grace.
Mother, O Mother, River of Love
You wash our troubles away.
Mother, O Mother, Ocean of Joy
You are opening our flowers.

We struggled hard inside our shells
You took the eggs and made the doves.
We cried for love and forgot how to be
You wiped our tears and let us see.
We needed the fulfillment of Christ’s words
And then Mother Mary, You gave us true second birth.
We languished in our man-made tombs
Divine Redeemer, You rolled away the stone.
Mother, O Mother, River of Love
You wash all troubles away.
Mother, O Mother, Ocean of Joy
You are open all the flowers.

Shri Mataji: Beautiful. It’s like a mantra working on My vibrations.

So our programs are fixed for different days and now I’ve received a letter from –

[RECORDING PAUSED]

…Even tell somebody “You have to get married, suddenly they … [silence] … as if somebody has stuck a pistol! That’s the first reaction I have seen many a times.

Pat has not come today?

Lady: No, [Kershan?] is not very well, Mother.

Shri Mataji: Hmm?

Lady: [Kershan’s?] still not very well; in fact he’s very sick.

Shri Mataji: I know, poor thing.

Lady: We’d like to come and see You next week, [INDISTINCT: “if we can be here for the …?].

Shri Mataji: I have told … her problem is basically something different, and I have told the solution and I’ve asked Gavin, Gavin to find out? Did you ask Sara?

Gavin: I didn’t get the chance just yet.

Shri Mataji: But Sara is here, you can talk to her. You see we have a, we had a doctor in India called Dr Sh-

[RECORDING PAUSED]

…done, what? So why should we worry? Everything is done for you, I mean lucky people I must say. Like guests, you see? That others have to do everything for you, and you have the fruits of it. Isn’t it a good situation? But still you look so worried. As we say. There’s a dog walking under a cart. He looks very worried because he thinks he’s carrying the cart, you see? And the poor – the one, one, the bullocks which are pulling the cart are quite happy.

Is it true that in Islam they hate dogs?

Man: No.

Shri Mataji: No? No. They don’t hate dogs. In Iran they – I don’t know why they hate dogs so much. Somebody was telling Me that they ill-treat dogs, absolutely. I said “Surprisingly?”

Men: Same with Asia. [INDISTINCT…] animals in general are not well treated. They’re very badly treated You know?

Shri Mataji: Badly treated. Because, you see they have become little insensitive to animals, I think so. Like here people treat the dogs very kindly, but their children very unkindly. Is other way round. I mean it’s… you just don’t understand, it’s a mystery as I said.

[PAUSE IN RECORDING]

…who want to see Me, can come. Tomorrow evening I’ll be at home. All right? About say, six o’clock. Then Sahastrara Puja must be fixed in the evening so that everybody can make it. Say about seven o’clock, that would be good. Many people can come there – evening because it’s a Wednesday or something. It’s a Wednesday? So Tuesday-Wednesday-Thursday- Friday, perhaps? It’s a Wednesday? Are you sure? Because if second is Tuesday…

Man softly: Second is Sunday.

Shri Mataji: Hm? Second is Tuesday.

Man: No it’s Sunday, Mother.

Shri Mataji: Is a Sunday. Then it’s all right, Wednesday. So one should try to have it about seven o’clock, so that other’s can come in for the puja.

Now, is it over?

Man: [UNCLEAR: Both/Pope?] John Glower is here, he’s supposed to have been …

Shri Mataji: Where is he?

Man: [INDISTINCT: Sorbiton.]

SIDE B 06’28” – 14’08” [THE LAST 8 MINUTES OF A RADIO INTERVIEW WITH A SAHAJ YOGI ABOUT SAHAJA YOGA IS BROADCAST, AT THE END OF WHICH THE ANNOUNCER SAYS:] “And should you be interested, She’s holding a meeting at Caxton Hall on Wednesday the fourteenth of April at 7pm, everyone is welcome.”

[THE YOGIS CHEER AND APPLAUD THE BROADCAST.]

Shri Mataji: Become empowered by your own powers. You yourself know, you can feel it, the other person, you can feel yourself and you know how to maneuver, you see, this Kundalini of others; you can give realizations to others; you can cure others; your power is released. Your power of your Spirit is released on your central nervous system. That would be really convincing; that is not My power, it’s your own power you can feel.

Lady: [INDISTINCT AT FIRST] … within, the people from other groups, they do all say, very much, the same as we do… [INDISTINCT]

Shri Mataji: That’s it. Just talking is very easy. You see if you read some books, then talk. See if they read a Sahaj Yoga book, they can say, “I have a Kundalini awakening. I can see the chakras. I can [INDISTINCT: I don’t know what to say.]

Ask them, “Can you feel our chakras?” that’s all. Then what do they agree? Then what do they say; are they going to come?

Lady: …

Shri Mataji: I think you should go and meet them, again and again. You see, [UNCLEAR NAME: Amar Samati] asked – he went to Santa Cruz, absolutely a new place – and he met people and talked to them and told them, “See, you are not feeling anything, why are you adhering to any group, for what; for paying money, for what? Because you have been doing it, but you are not feeling any vibrations, nothing; you are not feeling anything, you have no powers.” And he convinced them.

And I said, “There will be at least five to six hundred people,” and there were – more than that for that program.

That’s what you have to go and tell them, “What have you got? You haven’t got any powers. We have, we can feel you. We know this is what, this your chakra is here, that is there.” That’s the thing.

Lady: [INDISTINCT] …and I asked one of them [INDISTINCT: actually?] what enlightenment was. And he gave me a very [UNCLEAR: scary?] answer. And I put it to him, “Do you think you’ll get it in this lifetime?

And he says: “Oh I don’t know, I think it might be possible.”

And I said, “Well, how will you know it when you get it?”

He said, “Oh, I suppose it will dawn on me one day.” And when he said that he completely [INDISTINCT: changed?]

Shri Mataji: It will what, it will what?

Lady: He said, “I suppose it will dawn on me one day.” And I …[INDISTINCT.]

Shri Mataji: Good, good.

I’m also sending – you see these… Somehow, in my husband’s job, I meet people who are seekers and who are placed at the helm of affairs. I’m sending them books, you see? And I want to send one of the, one of our book, to Indonesia. There’s an ambassador from Indonesia who’s very anxious, so he’s been writing to my husband that, “You haven’t sent the book as yet.” So we have to send it there.

Lady: Mother, Warren had set this cassette up, it’s the first VHS copy of the Big match this Saturday. He set it up –

[PAUSE IN RECORDING]

Shri Mataji: [INDISTINCT: Shines from, looks like….

[PAUSE IN RECORDING]

It will become a cult once he starts tolerating everything. Just write to him that, “You become a cult then, you don’t become a living church. The living things know how to discard, what to accept.”

[TWO SNIPPET RECORDINGS OF A FEW SECONDS EACH, THEN:]

Shri Mataji: What’s in there? Gavin? That’s [INDISTINCT WORD]. That’s too much. I don’t know how you should think of all these things, really it’s too much.

Lady: Mother, this is a real egg.

Shri Mataji: It’s a real egg.

Lady: Yes, Mother.

Shri Mataji: I know I can see the [FEW SECONDS INTERFERENCE ON MICROPHONE] … must be ducks egg.

[PAUSE IN RECORDING THEN AN OUTDOOR RECORDING, POSSIBLY A HAVAN:]

Shri Mataji: “Many people should come to Sahaj Yoga and that Sahaj Yoga should be accepted by people and that it should spread like wildfire in the West.” Ask the Agni itself, one hand towards that, one hand towards Me.

[1] Shri Mataji states that the text to be read is from the Devi Mahatmyam. It is actually the Devi Bhagavatam. The text of the Devi Bhagavatam is included only where Shri Mataji’s comments directly relate to it.

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi