Conversation

Ruth’s Apartment, Rome (Italy)

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[The William Blake song, “Jerusalem”, is sung.]

[unclear] prediction. Specially it’s a prediction about the house. I don’t know if you have read all that, this house that we are going to be building is says that at the back of Kensington Garden, then there’s a brook there who was called as so Twyburn which flows just under our house. Somewhere there, used to flow. A house will be decorated and the earth like humility will give the base as sort of very good [unclear] the whole thing is. And hearts will be thanks-giving. All this will be built. And [there] the golden gilders. You see, they are painted with gold. The golden gilders will build a monument. It’s beautiful. Every word of it, it’s so many things in that. As well as they are still searching it intuitively because when the things happen then they find out. Like the foundations will be made in Lambert way, and [a/her] sinuses will vibrate round. [Aside: So you tell him?]

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, Mother. [Italian translation]

Shri Mataji: And first because He[‘ll be lived] in Southern Hills. I lived in Southern Hills first, you see. So the first because he’ll be lived in Southern Hills. And another one, another prediction we had in India, means it’s another great thing, two thousand years back. [So/See] there was a great guru, who, very well-known for his astrological predictions, you see. He has written two books, you see. One of them is called as Nadi Gruhanath and in that thing he has written about Sahaja Yoga, that it will start in 1970. I started in 1970 exactly. And he called Me a Maha Yogi. See, that’s the, the Maha Yogi will be the embodiment of the Parabrahma, and that this Parabrahma will have the power of whatever He wants to do it will do, whatever He doesn’t want to do it will not do. It’s [Hindi] Shakti. In 1970 it is done. And that a very big Yogi will die in 1922 and this Maha Yogi will be born after that. I was born in ’23. And a new method will start by which the sleeping Kundalini Shakti will be awakened and people will get their Realization. Such a lot he has written that I know, really it’s most surprising, and I have asked Gavin to write down the whole thing, whatever is rest said. Yes, and then people will be cured of their diseases. You don’t need any institutions like hospital. And then if there are sufficient number of Sahaja Yogis, then you don’t need a third world war. Otherwise, there could be a third world war. And after that third world war, people will gather together. Even if you have that, then only the Sahaja Yogis will be respected and will be called to have a conference instead of these horrible politicians. It’s quite a lot, but Gavin is going to prepare that and is going to send to all of you. Are you getting Nirmala Yoga here?

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, Mother, we are.

Shri Mataji: Now, in that [context] he is going to publish Nirmala Yoga about this. All are noted. Then there are other predictions also he is going to [give you] there, of others’ predictions also. Like what Sir John, John, you see, John [spread, gospelled that]. What then Christ has said, what John has said, and other gurus. And Quran, Quran also. That would be good then, I think will be one we have to establish it. Of the guru. Then?

Sahaja Yogini: There was a [unclear], he’s not here. Our, our purpose was humorous, he didn’t know. And he was saying also, “Oh, but now we have reached the end of the whole thing. There must be somebody or someone above us who is directing the [whole thing]. We couldn’t have before is changed but who knows? Maybe we have come too far and now we’ll be rescued, that is He will first destroy a disciple like that because He will have to do so.” And he was finishing with this interrogation [part] and we’ve send him an invitation to come.

Shri Mataji: Is it? That [guru is over]. Very good idea. What about this [popularity]? What has happened? You are less bothered.

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, according to the newspapers now they have [revived] there, in front of each other and they are waiting for the United States to move and to take ananya shakti. Nothing has happened as for the newspaper this evening. We can listen to the music, Mother.

Shri Mataji: How are you feeling? She’s looking much younger suddenly.

Sahaja Yogini: She says that she feels so wonderfully well that she wonders if she really deserves it.

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. I’m always here for you. These are much more. Italians are sweetheart people, isn’t it? Have [indoors] life but not so much complicated. How are you feeling now?

Sahaja Yogini: Oh, Mother, she feels great.

Shri Mataji: How are you, [unclear]?

Sahaja Yogini: [Fine].

Shri Mataji: How are you, sir? He’s sleepy now. You give him something to eat, I think. He plays so well; I didn’t know. You must come to London.

Sahaja Yogi: Oh, Mother, I, I used to [come].

Shri Mataji: You learned this in Sicily or?

Sahaja Yogini: He’s from Rome.

Sahaja Yogi: I’m from Sicily but I, I remember only I were in Rome.

Shri Mataji: But since childhood you were here? In your childhood you were here in Rome?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes.

Sahaja Yogini: He will have a kind of public audition on piano the day of Sahastrara Day.

Sahaja Yogi: No, the day before.

Sahaja Yogini: Or the day after. He says so. The day, the day before the purusha of Sahastrara Day you will have a public audition on piano.

Shri Mataji: Exact here?

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, here around.

Shri Mataji: Oh, it’s, it’s great. For his age is such a good thing. It’s great. Single? Solo is? Solo piano?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: You say it’s only you are going to play or somebody else is.

Sahaja Yogini: He will be a pure [daemon] playing that evening and he will play without orchestra.

Shri Mataji: Good, good. [unclear] You’ll write about [unclear].

Sahaja Yogini: Whenever you might phone [Smith’s], Mother, [your food] is ready.

Shri Mataji: No, I’m going to cook. What’s the time [I have to cook]? Twelve o’clock? It’s all right. Doesn’t matter. So you must learn how to wear a sari now.

Sahaja Yogini: Can we [quarrel]?

Shri Mataji: And this is very traditional style sari in India [you can get].

Sahaja Yogini: We must [unclear] want to know it.

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, I think you forgot to change Your watch. It’s a quarter to two now.

Shri Mataji: Is it? Oh, I see. This is one hour less, [unclear]. I’m still having English watch within Myself.

Sahaja Yogini: Do You want to eat here, Mother, or in the other room, like yesterday noon?

Shri Mataji: Yes, that it is better, to sit down there, very much.

Sahaja Yogini: They have done the basic things. [Are you down there, Sylvie?]

Shri Mataji: Italian painters are also very well-known, like musicians are. But I am surprised that there have been many, many even scientists, Italian scientists. There have been lots of scientists, Italian scientists, you see. And of course painters and all, but they’ve got scientists later.

Sahaja Yogini: They have lots genius people, I mean.

Shri Mataji: Mmm?

Sahaja Yogini: They have lots of genius.

Shri Mataji: Genius?

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, they have.

Shri Mataji: Really. As Michelangelo was an Italian one.

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, Mother.

Shri Mataji: And [Da Vinci]?

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, Mother, he was. And Dante.

Shri Mataji: Even Dante? I don’t like these Dutch painters so much, you see. Went out of proportional too much. Italians are good. But now they are busy with [other things] and their attention is not on creativity so much.

Sahaja Yogini: And the ones who create, many go away, as here they are not appreciated and even those scientists…

Shri Mataji: They go away.

Sahaja Yogini: They will go away, yes. Then, yeah, they want to go away because here they are not appreciated.

Shri Mataji: All right. So where do they go mostly? Whether…

Sahaja Yogini: In Belgium….

Shri Mataji: America.

Sahaja Yogini: No, Europe.

Shri Mataji: Oh, Europe.

Sahaja Yogi: United States.

Sahaja Yogis: Yes, United States a lot.

Shri Mataji: They are not appreciated so much.

Sahaja Yogini: No, not really.

Sahaja Yogini: Mother, do You think this is Virginia Lake?

Shri Mataji: Yes, this is in Virginia.

Sahaja Yogini: It’s among the, among the nature and they are putting flowers right on the floor.

Shri Mataji: Really?

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, this is in many places. Then is one [unclear] of Virginia Lake.

Shri Mataji: Really? You see, the paints were brought. They start painting again.

Sahaja Yogini: Yeah.

Shri Mataji: Yeah. [Very good]. Approximate age. Good.

Sahaja Yogini: She’s OK? [And he] looks like her Mother?

Shri Mataji: Isn’t it? They suit very much.

Sahaja Yogis: [unclear] away.

Shri Mataji: Very much, they resemble.

Sahaja Yogini: So subtle.

Shri Mataji: God, beautiful. God, and height.

Sahaja Yoginis: Yes, yes, yes. Yes.

Shri Mataji: That’s it.

Sahaja Yogini: Mother, Victor, he wants You to [come].

Shri Mataji: They are used to get it rather unconscious.
“ ` Sahaja Yogi: It’s all right.

Shri Mataji: Are you all right? You gave him Realization or not?

Sahaja Yogi: I think it crossed it, Mother, yes.

Shri Mataji: Crossed it? This is another liver patient [also]. Then we’ve done Sahaja Yoga so. Today we brought Sahaja Yoga books.

Sahaja Yogi: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: [Study]. You did not know? It was a [unclear]. Facing that side. Facing that side.

Sahaja Yogini: She really wants people want to see that. His only wish is [unclear].

Shri Mataji: The [moon]. What work he gets?

Sahaja Yogini: [unclear].

Shri Mataji: When? You get government?

Sahaja Yogi: Nothing [unclear].

Sahaja Yogini: [unclear].

Sahaja Yogi: Why? Somebody wants? International of the Hong Kong.

Sahaja Yogini: He was a, for a International [unclear].

Shri Mataji: Oh, I see. That’s why we should also go down to see the [unclear]. Telephones are going to be improved and [unclear]…

Sahaja Yogi: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: I don’t know, the human goes on seeking. [Aside to a child: Can you tell? Are you [Sylvie’s]?] It’s inherited. [unclear]

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, Mother.

Shri Mataji: Unfortunately.

Sahaja Yogini: I’ll bring Your food, Mother.

Shri Mataji: Hain. Please bring the food. Hain. Great. Are you feeling cool breeze in the hands?

Sahaja Yogini: I am feeling, but very less, Mother, [unclear] vibrations in this moment. And it can be [on the each and everything].

Shri Mataji: This is the Romania, first visit. Yeah, close your hand. Good. [Panch have you made it, Christine? To Kolhapur, Panch Ganga.] Close your hands. [Long pause] Wife is all right? You see the [unclear]. [All right?]

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, Mother.

Shri Mataji: She’s is a Sahaja Yogini?

[unclear talk]

Sahaja Yogini: She believes but she doesn’t want to practice.

Shri Mataji: She’s not granted with Realization. She’s not granted [with Self-realization].

Sahaja Yogini: No, no, no, there was nothing at all.

Shri Mataji: She, but she is all right, [everything] all right?

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, [unclear].

Sahaja Yogi: How we can feel Your [unclear]? [unclear].

Sahaja Yogini: She brought up a child from [home central board], which is in Italy.

Shri Mataji: What? What is?

Sahaja Yogi: She go to the child’s [unclear].

Shri Mataji: What?

Sahaja Yogini: No, she go to the child [unclear].

Shri Mataji: Want a child?

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, but [though/now] she’s an Italian [unclear].

Shri Mataji: Oh, good for the child. How many, how many days?

Sahaja Yogini: Four months ago.

Shri Mataji: Four months.

Sahaja Yogini: Four months ago.

Shri Mataji: All right. It has that [unclear] because the children are in home centers. What’s her name?

Sahaja Yogini: Sarah.

Shri Mataji: Can you yourself repeat, Sarah, please?

Sahaja Yogini: No, but is Sarah. Sarah.

Shri Mataji: Sarah. Sarah. [unclear] they are having an organization called Sarah? [This much nonsense]. He sent here [unclear].

Sahaja Yogini: Yeah, you can say it English Sahaja Yoga. Today on the Times there was an advertisement, “Buy your Realization from TORA”, T O R A. [unclear]. [Then my mother thought] that we might be trying and something that he remembered how to surrender. Then it talks about the second coming of Christ in two months’ time.

Sahaja Yogini: In two months’ time?

Sahaja Yogini: And it asked the question to the public, “Are you ready for it?” And ready for all [they said it’s a crossed road, a [unclear] you see, all sort of things. And they appeared on the TV. Then also I don’t know how they found out but he also started saying that he’s a Christian, and spent [unclear] thousand pounds for advertising. [unclear] and all Rolls Royce is finished. And Times has written that [unclear] newspapers don’t need. So we have other some examples here troubling round, isn’t it?

Shri Mataji: These are [unclear] they took for the car and publicity.

Sahaja Yogini: And I think I can say Mother’s answer to that [unclear]?

Sahaja Yogi (after the translation in Italian): In English you speak more.

Sahaja Yogis: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: See, only thing is that [in Italy/initially] we should also know that there’s something in the atmosphere. There is one thing because they all know is something in the atmosphere. Work it here [unclear] is like a market place. This is a market for them. So they must be marketing people, you see. They know there is something in the atmosphere. All the Sahaja Yogis must have [realized] that we are all realized souls and got the vibrations and everything. [unclear]. They say also that the Comforter has already come to give us Realization, and we are always denigrating. Why? Are you, you saying everything for money? Are you not afraid of God? Are you ready up to the [epitome] so that one talk on the [unclear]? [unclear talk]. Ha. You also work very hard [really]?

Sahaja Yogini: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: Very hard? That’s it. You are all busy people. No? Very busy.

Sahaja Yogi: [unclear].

Shri Mataji: Better? [Angel is not in the hall]. You see, instead or so they will go to church or some kind of wrong gurus. You can, you may go to a guru or anything who gives you Realization. But always we [unclear] bhoots. So we [unclear] just seekers.

Sahaja Yogi: [unclear].

Shri Mataji: You don’t tell about others?

Sahaja Yogi: No, no, not magia, only spiritism.

Sahaja Yogis: Spiritism.

Shri Mataji: Spiritism.

Sahaja Yogini: He says of a patrol [level] only he left on curiosity. As is curious, more as curiosity than as a [unclear].

Shri Mataji: How many did they come? Was she start showing the [deep part]? Then marketing will be for that, of course…

Sahaja Yogini: You couldn’t easily recognize [unclear].

Shri Mataji: [unclear] what? Expect what? Don’t worry.

Sahaja Yogini: He says that [unclear].

Shri Mataji: What he is saying?

Sahaja Yogini: He says that, that he would definitely [unclear] because You [brought] just in few minutes. Instead of curiosity.

Shri Mataji: [unclear]. Just out of curiosity. Better?

Sahaja Yogini: Right side is the heavier.

Shri Mataji: Right side is. Right to Me, only right hand.

Sahaja Yogi: [unclear] because only I’ll find.

Shri Mataji: What’s he saying? [Long pause] Ha, better? Better, na?

Sahaja Yogini: He looks like is less heavy?

Shri Mataji: How is he?

Sahaja Yogini: Less heavy.

Shri Mataji: Less heavy.

Sahaja Yogini: Spiritually.

Shri Mataji (to a child): You stand up.

Sahaja Yogini: … Realization done before. The Realization they have been given?

Shri Mataji: None of them was realized. You see, the olden gurus, they sit wherever is Nabhi but all these have [unclear]. You call Him Dhanvantari… [Missing part]

Sahaja Yogini: When You cured him it is a main thing.

Shri Mataji: And in this stage of, I mean, this stage when they are plants there is no awareness about a competition. But when you are a human being there is an awareness of competition, but when you get realized you, you don’t have that fear, competition, but you enjoy growing, becoming one to another. It’s nice to see how Sahaja Yogis grow, where I meet them after sometime, again what they have, again that they are not having. It’s nice to see for Me also when I go to some place after some time how they are grown up to Me. Because Kundalini [unclear] grossness. It’s nice to see you. But if you don’t cooperate with your Kundalini and try to do something, you see, only experimentation, this, that, you see, or harm it and doing wrong things which should not be there, after some time Kundalini also don’t rise. You see, it’s such as bad. Means the Realization [fail]. You see, there is no other force within you but your own desire to be the Spirit as they have told. But to have that force properly [also] you must have reached there. But most surprising thing is that Kundalini also gives you wisdom. She is the one who gives you wisdom. That is, they say that She gives you the oil, She gives you the, what you call, this the container, the oil, then the candle, then the wick and also the light. That She gives you. Then, then enjoy it. It’s so kind and compassionate. And the only thing She wants that you should enjoy your life. Only we should try to understand Her problems and try to cooperate with Her, because we have created problems for Her. By our rationalities or by any other things we have created problems for Her. So we should try to cooperate with Her. Also by conditionings. Better? He is better? How are your vibrations? How are you?

Sahaja Yogini: Better.

Shri Mataji: Other lectures [unclear] speech [must have helped you already]. How is your Nabhi? And don’t think. Just don’t think. Just leave it on Me. Hmm, better. Here is the [unclear].

Sahaja Yogi: It doesn’t satisfy this body.

Shri Mataji: Now, you never felt before?

Sahaja Yogi: No, Mother.

Shri Mataji: It’s around this [unclear].

Sahaja Yogi: Now are You happy? Mother? OK? Must be [pulsating].

Shri Mataji: Good vibrations. You should work on Vishuddhi more. [unclear] Better?

Sahaja Yogi: [Hope I do not catch again]

Shri Mataji: We’ll give bandhan. All right. [Long pause] Anya, come. Ganesh, come. [unclear]. Come, come, come, come, come. Very good child. [Playing and singing to a child] Better now? First I’ve cleaned [unclear].

Sahaja Yogini: But they are listening to the bhoots right now Mother.

[Long pause]

Shri Mataji (about a child who is crying): Got hurt? Oh, God, where did you get hurt? What, what happened? [Long pause] Better now? When they are using candle [don’t/you] put right hand on towards the candle on. Put like that. And this one. And there should be something where are the [unclear].

Sahaja Yogini: A different one?

Shri Mataji: Yes.

Sahaja Yogi: Mother.

Shri Mataji: Now, you just turn the right. Right hand, towards the right hand. Put this hand [to Me]. Just left hand towards Me. Is that so? And you could you sit on the ground. No, no, that side, you see. Put your hand towards Me. Right hand towards Me. Put it in the center of the Nabhi. Little hard on the Nabhi. You’ll [do] your hand first. Very bad. Good [unclear] except of what I tell you. Heat coming out. Ha, is better. Pain is taken?

Sahaja Yogini: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: I beg your pardon?

Sahaja Yogini: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: What’s [unclear]? You are a very hard-working man. And you think too much. No, no, nothing is bad in you. [Hindi] Is your hand shaking? Is there any shaking in the hand?

Sahaja Yogi: No, Mother.

Shri Mataji: Better now? [unclear] married everywhere, no?

Sahaja Yogi: [unclear] all together in this process [unclear].

Shri Mataji: No, one towards the light, one towards the light. You can put it on your lap, of the [unclear]. This one. And this one towards the light.

Sahaja Yogi: This one. Somebody will put your hands.

Shri Mataji: Little higher. It’s cleared out. It’s feeling hot. [Long pause] I am feeling the cool breeze in the left hand now. Ethan, now, let it be, [unclear]. Close them in, left in hand. Then clear that. Yes, Vishuddhi. That shows how dangerous [in even good sight]. Even if you are not interested in any way, don’t do anything, but even is building that [unclear]. I mean, somebody was working in a selecting this junk, you know, selecting these bhoots and garbage are here. Such a bad left side. Even for about four months also. What’s it?

Sahaja Yogini: Situation is quite dramatic. The British had gone on the Island of Georgia which is thousand kilometre from Cortland and so they have just disembarked…

Shri Mataji: Yes, this is it.

Sahaja Yogini: And no resistance, and only the last week a few English had on a secret prepared this operation and also few days ago two British helicopters attacked an Argentinean submarine. And they are two killed; people would be in a very bad state, not bad but I mean very bad. And they say now…

Shri Mataji: What are they, British or Argentines?

Sahaja Yogini: No, no, Argentineans. And they said now every moment this could turn in a real war. Argentina has not yet released any declaration.

Shri Mataji: And not withdraw even?

Sahaja Yogini: Not withdraw and not released. The Argentinean Foreign Minister has just arrived in Washington. And in Washington this crisis started, and Reagan is following everything, but no decision.

Shri Mataji: What is the decision?

Sahaja Yogini: Reagan is following everything, listening to everything, but no decision has been taken. And Mrs. Thatcher went to the Queen and told her what have been done [mainly] and that they are ready for war and now they would say is very serious and war might begin any moment.

Shri Mataji: So, this Army ship, this boat has reached Georgia?

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, and they have this [boat]. I think about a thousand or more British soldiers have gone on the island now.

Shri Mataji: On the island there are no Argentineans?

Sahaja Yogini: Oh, I think there are. They are a few inhabitants, not many, but now the British are on the island.

Shri Mataji: But I’m saying there were no Argentineans there?

Sahaja Yogini: They did not speak of any clash between the Argentinean troops.

Shri Mataji: Will not be. If they speak of any wind or anything they have to watch that it was there which I’d like to give a bandhan.

Sahaja Yogini: Wind to be? There was lots of; there was tempest but they said that despite the tempest and the bad weather the British worked out faster than they had planned to do and that everything went fine for the British.

Shri Mataji: As will be the Argentineans will be killed for nothing at all. Worthless. They should withdraw their troops from there. What’s your [nationality]? Is that [Swiss]? Did the USA has done [unclear]?

Sahaja Yogi: Perhaps is not.

Shri Mataji: Really convinced? It’s a democratic country? It stands for democracy, lives with democracy, [greatly] supports the democracy. These are fascists, you see.

Sahaja Yogini: They were saying that they had established a crisis department at the Foreign Ministry which were studying twenty-four round the clock all possible developments of the situation.

Shri Mataji: Aaaa? How is it?

Sahaja Yogini: They were studying twenty-four hours round the clock all possible developments of the situation, how the situation could change and degenerate from the yet better. And that is what they were doing so seriously, just parley. And then, Mother, it seems it just had propagated. But in Italy, in the north of Italy, in the [unclear] there has been a big fire in a big public palace, public palace, where there was an exhibition. And it seems that many people died and many people are [injured]. And this is the biggest catastrophe Italy has had now for since You came last time at least.

Shri Mataji: Really? What was it? What time?

Sahaja Yogini: Just this afternoon and this is [average], this afternoon Mother. I told again.

Shri Mataji: How are the people in north Italy? What sort of people they are?

Sahaja Yogini: They are doing no magic like in the south of Italy but they are more busy people, more working people.

Another Sahaja Yogini: They are more on the right.

Shri Mataji: Mmm?

Sahaja Yogini: More on the right.

Shri Mataji: Right side. That fact is connected to what it’s [unclear].

Sahaja Yogini: It’s still Italy. It’s the center of Italy.

Shri Mataji: It is center of Italy?

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, Mother. It’s, maybe, it’s three hundred kilometre north from here.

Shri Mataji: There are no seekers first. [This is the point.]

Sahaja Yogini: It’s, it’s the same part of this saint, Saint Francisco of Assisi comes from. This saint who was talking to the birds.

Shri Mataji: Mmm?

Sahaja Yogini: Saying of Francis of Assisi.

Shri Mataji: Oh, I see.

Sahaja Yogini: It’s more or less the same region.

Shri Mataji: He used to talk to the birds?

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, he used to talk to the birds and to talk to the fire and to talk to the moon.

Sahaja Yogis: And to talk to the sun.

Sahaja Yogini: But also not far away from there they have established the centre of these yellow nun, yellow people, these…

Shri Mataji: Rajneesh’s.

Sahaja Yogini: Yes.

Shri Mataji: That’s it. That’s it.

Sahaja Yogini: Quite recently.

Shri Mataji: Rajneesh’s are all, you see, Rajneesh’s is more to place for burnt to fire. Who knows? That’s it.

Sahaja Yogini: They have also established a center, Rajneesh’s people in Sicily, Mother.

Shri Mataji: Really?

Sahaja Yogini: Yes. Eight months ago. Last summer, I think.

Shri Mataji: Only prospering. That’s why Rajneesh’s people, that’s why. That’s why we shouldn’t worship.

Sahaja Yogini: He says that there are many people there and because now there’s a center where people can go. But if these people [are] less convinced, then he go on just curious about novelty and so on.

Shri Mataji: Ha, that’s all.

Sahaja Yogini: But, yes, yes, and I think and also mass media had just total [attracted] and this attracts people.

Shri Mataji: And the fellow who had a paralyses attack for the [way] [unclear] about these things [unclear] paralyses attack. And that all his ashram was burnt away. He, they are all running away from all the places now. In America he ran away, just ran away. He’s not now. He couldn’t have. In one night they all went away, and there was a big fire in the ashram. All his ashrams were burnt away, and his places were burnt away. Secretly they ran, secretly.

Sahaja Yogini: Oh, he says, it was written this in the newspaper.

Shri Mataji: Was that? Despite that, these people are not listening to anyone. They should not go. Also this is very inauspicious [thing]. They must try to do something [wrong]. That’s the reason they set fire. You see, it is Ravana. You know Ravana? And his Lanka was also burnt, Ravana’s country. And wherever he will go there, there he will get this fire.

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, first thing I saw when I’ve got the train in Rome were about ten or twelve Rajneesh’s people, on the station, near the side of the station.

Shri Mataji: Here?

Sahaja Yogi: In Rome, yes.

Shri Mataji: Just imagine.

Sahaja Yogini: The disciples also get cancer.

Shri Mataji: Yeah, they get cancer, they get mad, get all kinds of things but the worst is wherever they stay there’s fire caused. Just imagine. People want to become mad; what can you do? In London it is now much less.

Sahaja Yogi: Bristol’s very bad [though], Mother.

Shri Mataji: Even now?

Sahaja Yogi: Oh, yes. I don’t know…

Sahaja Yogini: In Italy, they speak quite often in the newspapers. Just last month they had big reports about this center in the north of Italy especially.

Shri Mataji: Is it?

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, there have been big reports.

Shri Mataji: When was it? In, in, in the papers?

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, about, well three months ago, two or three months ago, maybe some six months ago but regularly they have [written].

Shri Mataji: About what? About what, what are they saying?

Sahaja Yogini: Oh, they are describing the life, who is coming, describing the people who direct this center that they restored an old building.

Shri Mataji: In a general newspaper or in their own newspaper?

Sahaja Yogini: No, no, no, general newspaper, in the daily newspapers or weekly newspapers. It’s a kind of fashion there was those days in Italy to speak of those things.

Shri Mataji: Then how long are living here? Yesterday so much [unclear]…

Sahaja Yogini: He says that he has begun it more or less at the beginning of ’70s but really seriously as from ’74 or ’75. Especially a journalist who was very lefty began doing that, and so he was right away lots of talking about that. But now people they are more, they felt betrayed because of his going away and they are going secretly and taking women with him and so on but they keep on [unclear] last spirit on the internal going. But they are more trying to do things concrete. But they don’t feel like wearing the clothes anymore. It gets kind of strange.

Shri Mataji: Did he settle in Sicily? This is in Sicily?

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, Mother.

Shri Mataji: Good, you can get hold of them. Is that very difficult?

Sahaja Yogini: On the concrete level they are very well-organized and they are getting help from the authorities, and getting land.

Shri Mataji: From where?

Sahaja Yogini: Land. Help from the authorities, getting land and also land has been given, donated to them and they are getting churches and all concrete [terrain].

Shri Mataji: They don’t belong to Rajneesh as such? They are on their own. They are starting on their own.

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, they are Rajneesh’s.

Shri Mataji: As far as [unclear].

Sahaja Yogini: So he says that as Rajneesh turns the people over it can happen everywhere. Also local people began being impressed and going into that, and there were mostly or many women and lots and lots of money, and it’s not very clear where from the money comes. And this is true saying. I heard that many rich people were going there and just running all money with that, and he says that’s why local people got involved in [these theories/this].

Shri Mataji: But the theories they are following are of Rajneesh’s, isn’t it?

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, Mother. Because he’s saying he is the last …

Shri Mataji: Mmmm?

Sahaja Yogini: He’s saying that it’s because he is very last [unclear] helping now. I mean, they have no guide.

Shri Mataji: That there is nobody else.

Sahaja Yogini: No, nobody else. Now, they have started putting this over, the dress on, and one in a next day they [were rained all the] way.

Shri Mataji: That’s true. Now what to do? How to hand that [signition/ignition]. Actually, there are lots of seekers, I know. But how to do it? Yesterday I came from this place, but you can have a public meeting. Just talk about it openly to begin with. You know, from Me you [may get]. Is that [unclear], you know? Worse than him you should say. He became the guru of people [unclear]. As if you are there, like that. I’m here in such a [unclear] man whether is [unclear] relationship between the Mother of Christ and Her son. Then he said about Mohammed Sahab same. He said the same about, you see, Rama and Sita and Lakshmana.

Sahaja Yogini: He also pretends to be higher than Christ.

Shri Mataji: And that I don’t know that people takes or not that he wants to bring down everyone saying that they are homosexually infected people. And he said that Maria Magdalena was a keep of Christ. Just imagine. Last filth.

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi