Public Program

Rome (Italy)

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Public Program. Rome (Italy), 29 April 1982.

All the seekers of truth, I bow.
I have told you before during last two days, about the different energies that run within us and also the subtle centers who manifest with those centers outside, except for two. Today I will tell you about the remaining two centers and about what to do after realization. As you know, today is the last day and tomorrow I have to leave and next time I’m sure I’ll come for a week to meet you all again.

Now the centre that is placed is the center of the heart is called as the heart center, or in Sanskrit language is called as anahat chakra, anahat chakra. This is the center, very important, because till the age of twelve years the sternum bone which is placed in front of it, produces a kind of sense which are called as antibodies, and then these antibodies travel all around the body and protect us from any invasion from outside. This is the center that informs the antibodies about the invasion and how to fight it. This center is bestowed upon the deity Allti; Mother of the World. She’s the Mother of all the seekers and of all the saints and prophets and She protects all the seekers who are mislaid or carried away by fake gurus and false gurus. She also protects the seekers when they are trying to achieve their realization and some negative forces try to pull them down.

This center is the center of security, so the first thing any one of these organizations – whether they are religious or of fake gurus – they try to put insecurity into a person: ‘If you don’t do like this, this will happen, if you don’t do like that, that will happen,’ so the person is insecure to begin with. Or it can also be that they might say, ‘This is due to your karmas, you’ve been a sinner, you have been this, and you must confess, something wrong with you…all these things build up the insecurity within you.

Now if this insecurity is developed in a person the diseases are caused like palpitations, fear, nervousness, frustration, can be very cranky, hysteria, could be epileptic…can go to any extent. When a person sees a sign of danger, this center starts pulsating, by its pulsation the heart starts beating more and the antibodies are alerted to see what is the danger coming in.

But a seeker should never forget that he has a very powerful Mother, the most powerful Mother and She is capable of handling any kind of situation, whatever it may be, for Her children’s sake. If this security is built in a person, he is not afraid of any kind of endurances or any kind of attacks.

In the very gross level also this centre is very active. Say a woman loves her husband and she has her security with her husband and if she finds that husband is a flirt or a man carrying on with another woman, if her security is disturbed, she may develop a disease called breast cancer because it is a mother’s center; it is very, very powerful in a woman, but when women forget their potential powers they can develop a very weak center.

The potential power of the woman is a motherhood, not the way women flitter away their energies in doing all childish, cheapish things. They should not give away their chastity, sense of chastity so easily because then they will have no strength in their center heart, and they can easily get to problems.

Today only somebody asked Me, ‘Mother, what do you think if the women want to work as the men, and what is the need to work like that?’ Actually, in the affluent country there is no need for women to work, I mean to earn money. Whether you work or not you get your money, but building up of children is the most important thing. Even the men must realize that if a woman is not respected as a housewife and as a mother, they are going to have the backlashes of this kind of system. It is the most important thing to give sense of security to your children.

In the West, people will give lots of presents and lots of things to the children to play and make them mad with it. I have seen seekers who come to Me from such mothers who are very demanding or who are very cruel or who are working outside, not paying attention to children, are difficult to get realization. Even the heart organ which contains the Spirit also gets into problem if the mother sense or mother security is not established in a person. Of course the children must not be spoiled, but they must know that their mother loves them. This work can not be paid for. It is the most vital thing today to look after your children.

I have seen in America which is such an affluent country, the boys, young boys and young girls are just like vagabonds, hooligans, absolutely they have no discipline of any kind. They are just wasters, they are good for nothing, they can never get realization, they’ve ruined themselves. If home is the blissful place of love, nobody will leave the home. After Sahaja Yoga, after realization, I have seen people settle down very nicely in their married lives, and have very nice children who are disciplined.

There are so many things now happening in this world, I mean we are so precariously placed that God knows what day it could be that the atom bomb can be released from somewhere, that can we could be quite harmed in such a way that all security and everything will be finished once for all.

So whatever is happening outside is also happening inside the human beings. Outside is the reflection of the inside and that inside is being destroyed at a very early stage.

In Sahaja Yoga, when the Kundalini rises and goes through this center, She establishes a kind of sense of security by which a person neither aggresses nor recedes. On the right side of the center is the centre we call as ‘right heart.’ This is the center of the father and Shri Rama resides on this center.

Now He was a benefactor and a benevolent king. A person who is not a good father or a son who is not a good son gets a problem of this centre and the result is asthma.

If your father is worried about the son or a daughter, he can get asthma. If a father dies very early also a person might get asthma. We have cured asthma of thousands of people and this is a simple thing that there is something lacking in the sense of the father; in the Spirit of the father.

Now the, because there’s short time, I have to cover a lot so I don’t tell you about the other centers, this is not one of the seven centres, but is a sub-center between the Agnya and the Vishuddhi; this one, and this one is called as ‘Hamsa.’ Means it is the center that balances; She’s the balance that is within you. If the left and right side energies are working in a balance, then this center keeps alright. If it is too much on the right-hand side, then this center becomes dried out and if it is too much on the left-hand side it becomes full of mucus and people have problems with their face, pains in the face, both ways.

Now the Agnya chakra which is placed between the optic chasma in the, where the two optic nerves cross, that point, a very subtle center which controls pituitary and pineal body which I have told you already.

Pituitary is the king of all the glands within us because it is for activation, ductless glands, of the ductless glands, ductless glands and this pituitary also controls our ego. So this one can control ego and superego through pineal body.

So when Christ who is bestowed upon this center is awakened then it sucks both these balloon-like structures, thus it removes all our conditioning and all our karmas, all our actions.

So Christ is the one, one has to cross come to, otherwise you can not get your realization, no doubt about it, because if He does not suck the ego and superego, the door that is this Brahmaranda that is the frontanel bone area won’t open, and to do that we have to take Kundalini up to the Agnya chakra.

The Lord’s Prayer is the mantra to open the Agnya chakra. Everything that is said in Lord’s Prayer is required to please Christ there to be awakened, but this prayer should not be said by a person who is not a realized soul; who is not connected with God, otherwise it has no meaning because there is no connection. Supposing there’s no connection between the telephone and you telephone: what’s the use of telephoning?

In the same way, all these prayers they do so loudly and everybody can put up such a show and all that, has little meaning to God. The idea we have about God is rather funny because we think that we are already connected with God and whatever we say to Him He just listens to us, but actually the way we believe into things is so mythical that if somebody tells you that it is not so, one feels hurt, but I hope you won’t feel hurt if I tell you the truth.

For example, I am not an Italian and if I apply for, say, a loan from your government they won’t listen to Me. I have to enter in the kingdom of Italy. In the same way, you have to enter into the Kingdom of God and be enlisted there, but when people start telling lies it becomes like truth to them. If you go on saying same thing, same thing all the time, you start thinking that you are telling the truth and if some coincidence takes place, then you just start believing, ‘Oh, God was very kind to me especially.’ On the contrary, we have to, we have to think that, ‘What have we done to receive the grace of God? What have we been doing to be in the book of His Knowledge?’ That is the way, if our approach is, I’m sure one day it happens that you get your self-realization.

As I told you before, these are the days of resurrection. These are the days of Last Judgement and lots of seekers are born. That’s why the population is so big. How are we going to be judged? You won’t be put in some sort of a measuring cup or in a balance to see how you are, but you have a system within you, built-in, where this Kundalini – the residual power within you – rises and shows what are your problems. So this is the time of redemption and counselling and comforting so that you realize what is the Spirit.

For example, when Buddha got His realization He didn’t even want to talk of God. He just talked of the Self or the Spirit, because He thought if He talked of God again people will think they have become gods. So He went further than we can say Christ and Mohammed to delimit the search.

For example, first people talked of the Deities and people got lost with the Deities, like talking about the flowers. Then they started talking about the honey and they got lost with the honey, means with the formless God. So Buddha just said that better only have the taste of that, just a little taste of the honey, but every religion is going against its own teachings. Buddha told them not to worship anything because He knew the problems that would come out of it so Buddhists worshipped everything; all sorts of things they worship.

Christ said, ‘Don’t have anything to do with the dead because they are Spirits’. He took out the Spirits and put them in the pigs but in every church you find a churchyard. All dead bodies are put there in the church. And Moses has told that one should not take hard drinks. If you go and see Jews, the first thing they will do is to offer you a champagne. You see the Muslims have been told not to smoke and to drink, not to drink, yes, because at that time there was no smoking and Guru Nanak told that one should not smoke and drink because at that time this was a problem but now I have seen in England the Sikhs, His followers, drink more than even Scotch people. It is such a situation with which one has to deal.

Now the main problem with us is how to become one with the Spirit. That is not a difficult problem because Kundalini, I know how to handle it and you will also know how to handle it and now the Divine has decided to get you to His Kingdom. If God’s creation has to remain, people have to get realization to know Him, so the Divine Power itself is anxious to get you to the Kingdom of God.

There has been many predictions of these times; in India, in the Bible and in England also, by one great poet Blake, but the trouble with the people is that they are already lost and mislaid into wrong paths and they are misidentified because realization is not a hysteria or a mass happening; it is not hypnosis. It is something by which you get your own powers. It is not the power of the guru that you admire but it is your own power starts manifesting and it is a living process of breakthrough which is now the end of our evolution. It is a living process, that means human beings can not do it. Only God or the realized soul can do it.

We can make people dance like mad, we can make them wear some sort of a, a garland, we can make them nude, or do all kinds of mass hysteric things even murder them together; all sorts of things they are doing now. This is simple mesmerism. There are some people who materialize things, bring out some diamonds and things like that. God is not there to give you diamonds. If He has to give you something, He’ll give you something that you can not have. He will do something that you can not do and He’ll give you something that is of the highest value, so invaluable that you can not pay for it and that is what you should expect when you are seeking.

It is very saddening sometimes to see that how in seeking, in frustration, people have gone into things which they should not have gone into, but I have seen after realization there is such a transformation. Apart from the appearance the whole being changes so much. All the priorities change so, so quickly and the whole behavior becomes so collective. Not mass, means individual is aware, that great harmony and bliss resides among them.

First the thoughtless awareness is the state you achieve. That happens when Kundalini crosses this spot.

When the thought rises from a point it goes up and comes down. We see the rising of the thought but not the falling of the thought and then another thought rises and again falls off. So either we are in the past or in the future. In between [this] these thoughts, there is a space and that space is the present, and we have to stay in this present, and in this present we are thoughtless but aware. If you want to think you can think, but if you don’t want to think you need not think. This state is your fort where no one can attack. All negative thoughts or thoughts of aggression do not, can not enter into this pure, holy area of present. All the present moments are full of dynamism, every moment is full of joy and dynamism.

When the Kundalini touches the Spirit and crosses this frontanel area when you get your real baptism that time you feel the, feel Spirit within yourself in your attention, that you become collectively conscious. That means you can feel yourself and others on your fingertips. Now if somebody wants to know a particular person if he’s realized or not it’s very simple for a realized soul: he just puts his hand and thinks of the person and immediately he can feel whether he is realized or not.

Now for you to establish that collective consciousness you have to work in the collective. Means you have to feel the vibrations of others and you have to know your own vibrations. You have to practice. You have to practice very diligently, and you’ll be surprised how scientific it is. Even if you have ten children tied up their eyes and if you ask them to feel somebody they’ll always say, ‘He is catching on the heart,’ and if you ask the gentleman, ‘Did you have any heart attack?’, he said he had two already.

But where does lie the problem? The problem is, there are so many fake that one can’t keep [unclear: time? Or track?] of another fake but all fake people take money from you and they have a big sort of a what you can call an iron curtain around them. For which you know I worked; you don’t have to work. Other gurus will tell you, ‘You give me money and start jumping for three hours’ or, ‘Give me money and stand on your head for two hours.’ If you can’t do it he’ll say that, ‘You’re no good; you better give me more money,’ and such people appeal to people I don’t know how.

One thing one has to know that the time is precarious and important and very serious. In the Bible John in his revelation has said, ‘only 144,000 people will be realized.’ Can you imagine what a number? I’m sure already I must have given realization to about 35,000 people already.

Mostly Indians of course, but what about the rest of the world? Are they all going to be left out? But why? Only because of ego problem. Ego makes you blind. I can not pamper your ego, I’m sorry. Nor am I harsh with you, harsh. I can persuade it to a point.

If I have done the cooking, I can invite you to have your dinner. If you are not hungry you’ll just argue with Me. I would like you to know so many other things like how did I make it, from where did I get it, all those things, but if you are hungry you will have it. Not only have it but you’ll taste it. I can not taste it for you, can I? I am already tasting it and enjoying it, and enjoying it. I want you to enjoy also and I hope that you will accept this invitation with love and take your realization.

I think there’s no end to this knowledge as I’ve told you I have given hundreds of lectures everywhere and there are tapes, but we don’t give these tapes to people who are not Sahaja Yogis. Also, we have books which we do not give to people who are not established in Sahaja Yoga. First you have to get your realization; grow into your realization. You should be able to give realizations to others and once you become doubtlessly aware, which is a state, then you are a yogi and then only we see that it is worth giving the book into your hands.

I am very happy that in My last two days I have seen so many Italians getting their realization. Though Italy is the last place I have touched in Europe and we have very strong Sahaja Yogis in Paris and in Geneva, but I have a feeling that we may have a much stronger centre in Rome because the people are very spontaneous.

I’ve been very happy to meet you all. I’ll miss you – every one of you. You can always write to Me; if it is necessary to answer, I’ll answer, but in any case I will know and somebody will answer you. It’s very hard to say goodbye, but I have to say. After again I give you a session of self-realization today, I have to say goodbye to you. After that we have Sahaja Yogis here and we have a some sort of a center also you should contact, and we also have a program after this in a place where you can sit down and decide how to start a proper center in Rome.

Now, somebody has asked Me questions about the pope and it’s a little embarrassing thing to answer. Only thing is if you all get your realization, then you can find out whether he is a realized soul or not and whatever he’s doing is of a political nature, not of a spiritual nature. You see, we think that these political things can solve the problem of human being is absolutely wrong. Now, say I have think, I have the powers, so I’m the capitalist, but I can not enjoy them unless and until sharing it, so I am the absolute communist. All this forty crews as they say in Argentina or Chile or in other places like Pakistan and all these things are also not solving the problem. Any kind of government is not perfect. That is a fact.

Now, the problem is the human being itself. If you give freedom to human being, he runs like a madman. Half of the Western people are little funny there, because they think ‘What’s wrong in doing this? What’s wrong in taking drugs? What’s wrong in taking so much alcohol? What’s wrong in killing yourself? What’s wrong in killing others? What’s wrong?’ Such a stupidity of a showing off that they love each other and all that and while walking the steps of the say, a divorce case, they are kissing each other. What is this? Husband is killing the wife, wife is killing the husband, the children are killing the great-grandparents, the grandparents killing the… what is this? This is human beings. What kind of anarchy is this?

We had a, we had a Sahaja Yogi about twenty-six year old, and one day he came and he became very serious. I said, ‘What’s wrong with you?’ He said, ‘My mother was forty-eight years of old, she has eloped with my friend who is twenty-two years,’ and the mother came to see Me and she said, ‘What’s wrong?’ She had three young daughters. They have gone on their way to all wrong things. They have gone on the other wrong way because there’s no [unclear]. It’s a funny world, I tell you, this so-called ‘freedom’ is, is gone into waste. Man can not hold the freedom.

Now, I have seen many communist countries, I have travelled a lot because of my husband. There the people are absolutely useless. They have no freedom to think. They have always a fear in the despotic people also they find some sort of a fighting just to divert the attention of the people and the people are absolutely unaware of where they are, what they are doing, what is the time. If you give somebody some money he will immediately go to a pub. If you give money to someone, you make him rich, he becomes the worst man that you could think of. He has all the problems of the world. That’s why Christ has said that rich can not enter into the Kingdom of God.

So this political problems can not be solved. Only the human problem must be solved from its roots. If we have many realized souls, I’m sure it will work out much faster and that is what is the need of today; to save this humanity from complete disaster. So many seekers are born for the same purpose and I am sure they’ll find themselves very soon if they have some wisdom left in their heads because when I tell them there’s something wrong with their guru, and that has stopped their Kundalini from rising, they get so angry with Me you can’t imagine.

There is one guru, he took three thousand pounds each from husband, wife and the child and gave them epilepsy and the guru said that, ‘I’m going to teach you how to levitate and how to fly,’ and this gentleman was the head of the Scotland Academy of that flying squad and then he came down to Me with all these problems which I had to solve – now they are alright – and they are perfectly doing well, but they’ve lost all their money, they were paupers when they came to Me, and they told Me that this guru has got already seven keeps. I think he’ll have thousand if you go on giving money to him. What will he do with the money? He can’t eat [inaudible: it?].

This is what it is and that’s why I have to tell you, all your misidentifications with falsehood must drop and you must ask for your own powers. Sahaja Yoga is no organization, it is no cult, we do not have any membership, we do not force anybody to come or if somebody wants to go away we can not stop.

A person is called as ‘Sahaja Yogi’ by the quality of his or her evolutionary status and only these people are allowed to come in the inner circle of Sahaja Yoga and get the higher knowledge about Spirit. There is no money, there is no such nonsense going on.

So I think we should now have [unclear: a] realization, and get to our self, that is Spirit, and later on I’m sure we’ll tell you some more tapes where I have described the nature of the Spirit especially and other so many things which I have not been able to talk to you.

One more question they asked about the handicapped children. The handicapped children are mostly created because the mothers do not know what to be done during pregnancy. Say, if you see an eclipse during pregnancy you will get a handicapped child.

If you see a setting sun during pregnancy for long period [unclear: of] times, then you will get children whose eyes that are very weak. If you get any antibiotic treatment during pregnancy you will get a child with the blue heart; as they call it a ‘blue baby.’ So there are many such things when it happens to the mother. Also, it is also karma sometimes that affects the child. All, all such children can also get realization and can also get cured, but our main interest is to give realization to people who are normal so that they can  realization to other people.

(Disturbance in audience…) What is it? What is she doing? What is she doing? What is she doing? What is she, why is she behaving negative? What has happened? Huh? She is mad, is she? What is she saying?

(Yogini: this woman says that uh, this woman says that (Brigitte?) has attacked her and something like that..) You see, why are you disturbing everyone, My child? What don’t you sit down? What, why are you disturbing us? We are doing good work, we are doing God’s work. If you don’t want, why did you come, and you are disturbing, getting up, going out, coming in… is it good? You have to be civil person, isn’t it?

(Yogini: They, they said they’re feeling bad because all windows have been closed.) Huh? (Yogini: They said they are feeling bad because all windows have been closed.) So don’t (?), what did they want, to open the doors? (Yogini: They want to go out, is what I understand.)

But you shouldn’t do like, this is not a cinema hall you have come to. No, you must understand the seriousness, you see, you must understand, you just can not come and walk off…it’s not proper. It’s not proper. All right, now let them go, all right? Now you can go, it’s all right. Now you can go. It’s not proper, you see? You disturb somebody who is doing good. You see, you are not so important, isn’t it? What can you do?…but you should not trouble Me. If somebody’s speaking here, you come in and go out, it’s not the way to behave. This is a holy place. You will not understand. You should have respect. You have no respect, no respect. No, you have no respect. (Yogini: They say, they say they have been pushed on the floor or something.) Pushed? Please.

(Sound of commotion – arguing, etc. – increasing in room.) (Yogini: They say they have been…) All right, you can go out, all right? (Yogini: They want to know if they have been realized or not, because they say they have been realized.) You see? Just see, I’ll tell you. You can not command Me. You should sit down. If you are realized you won’t be so violent like that. Why are you so violent? (Yogini: She says that You can see if they can, if they are realized.) So what’s the use of such a certificate? Then why don’t you sit down. Sit down! Be quiet. (Yogini: One is saying that she has been used by [unclear].

All right. What happened? They pushed you? For what? For what? (Woman: Because I did not want to go out and they…) That I know, they were very disturbing. All right. Yes that’s true, you see, when you come to a place like this, you have to be really in a very quiet mood. If you are in a negative way, you can be very disturbing to others. This is a sure sign of negativity. There was one man, who was sitting here, and was walking outside and were coming back inside and walking out… he is a possessed man, I know, because he wanted to get well but he couldn’t bear also my vibrations, you see? So he was going out and again he was coming in. I could, I can understand, but if somebody’s disturbing such a nice program of ours, then there’s something wrong with the person.

This is a, not a political thing going on here, or a mafia or anything. It’s a very simple thing that we are doing is to get to God, and they were going out and coming in and going out and coming in so I said, ‘You better to lock the door so that they do not come back.’

I mean, even if you have to go in any case, because you are not all right, then you have to say that, ‘Please may I go,’ not to hit someone. It has been taken advantage by people that all the saints must be tortured and hit, but no more. It’s a very different thing we are dealing with. They don’t know what are they up to. May God bless them. They are very stupid, that’s all I would say. All right. So we need not feel disturbed about it. They are negative, what can you do?

Now I would request you all to put your hands towards Me, like this and close your eyes. All right sit down now, comfortably. You see, if I told them that ‘You are negative,’ they would have [unclear]. They are stupid I must say. So many people think they are realized souls, you know. We, we are twice born and how to tell them, ‘You are not,’ because if you tell them, they’ll hit you back. That’s the problem. A person who is a realized soul is the one who can feel the vibrations of another person and can feel his own vibrations. They know where the Kundalini is. Even if they are small children of six months, they know and they show by sucking their thumb or finger what chakras where they are catching. So it is not proper to certify yourself with something, unnecessary. Why? You are the loser. Better to have it and then certify. Then you don’t need any certificate. That is between you and your God, that you know you are realized.

All right. I would request you to put your hands towards Me like this and close your eyes. Please put both the hands and close your eyes. Please don’t open your eyes, because when the Kundalini rises through the Agnya chakra you get dilatation of the pupils and if the eyes are open it doesn’t rise.

At the very outset I have to say that you should don’t feel guilty at all. On the contrary you have to say that, ‘Mother, I am not guilty.’ Say it at least three times. Please say it again that, ‘I am not guilty. Mother, I am not guilty.’ It’s too much. I think you put your right hand on the heart and say that, ‘Mother, I’m not guilty. Please say sincerely. What guilt can you have? God is the ocean of love and forgiveness and compassion, and what guilt can you have compared to that? You are all men of God and you have come to seek God. Why should you feel guilty? Whatever I have said you’ll forget that also if you should feel guilty with something I have said.

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi