Conversation with Sahaja Yogis, Rome, Italy, April 30th [unsure], 1982

Now we have to also find out the tapes from. Now when you go there, you ask Gavin and other people. They will give you the tapes. And also from Nirmala Yoga, also, you can ask people to have membership. You can also get some nice records and things like that. From Gavin, he will tell you. In France, there might be some tapes of music that have been done in my presence. Ask Gavin to give. And he will be able to tell you and how to get it. It can be sent by a person or post or something.

But another thing that now Marie is doing is to find out people who are against the cult, you see. And such people should be brought to Sahaja Yoga. Marie is doing that work, a kind of [unclear] and that’s how they brought people, you see, to Sahaja Yoga. And that sort of people you find out if you ask Marie about it.
Sahaja Yogini: Against the cult.
Shri Mataji: Against the cult, you see.

And about the protocol also perhaps they are printing now a new sort of a pamphlet. So, you get those and other pamphlets that are there. If you can translate, we can get copies made for, I mean, you have translated?
Sahaja Yogini: I have translated only Sahaja Yoga practice.
Shri Mataji: And you got it printed also? All right. So, if you want any other that they have got, if they want to be translated or anything. You can ask them.
Sahaja Yogini: Yes, Mother.

Shri Mataji: A more good point, a fellow told me there, that all the gurus are telling the same, same things, except for you who has given us the Self and the knowledge. So when you talk to these people, that you say, you should say that, “You do not have the real knowledge. But first of all, you do not have the experience and the feeling. And thirdly, the knowledge about it, is also not there, you see”. [Unclear name] was there, who was saying that, “This is every guru says the same sort of things. But does not do anything”. So, that’s the point is. Apart from that, the knowledge, you see, about chakras, about centres, about the deities then the Kundalini, nobody talks about it.

Sahaja Yogini: You said, “First the experiment, then the knowledge”.
Shri Mataji: No. You see, the thing is, other gurus just talk big. And all of them talk the same thing. But here, it’s the experience, you feel the experience and then you get the connection, the yoga. And then you get all the knowledge, very different from all this, of the higher life, divine life. It has not yet been anywhere explained so clearly.
Sahaja Yogini: I see.

Shri Mataji: That’s it.
Sahaja Yogini: Mother, can I just ask you a question. Should we teach them very fast the mantras? Or should we wait a little bit?
Shri Mataji: So, you now teach them. So, you now teach them, you see. Like somebody who is now coming from TM, you can give them the mantra of this ‘Narakasura mardini’. Actually, you people should also understand among yourselves, you see? You must have complete harmony among yourselves, no arguing, no fighting, or damage. The one who is now the eldest among you, as you are now here, should be taken as the leader. And there should be no quarrelling and when you go away, then Flavia can take over. But just now, as long as you are here, you have to be the leader of this place because I cannot contact everyone, all right?
Sahaja Yogini: Yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: So, then Flavia can take over. And then Flavia should try to get a flat or some place and a telephone so she could be contacted. So, decisions must be taken about everything among yourselves not in the presence of others. In the presence of others, they should not even feel that there is any opinion difference or anything in you. Otherwise, you cannot become a guru. And the biggest thing that the guru has to do always must listen to others, what others are saying. That’s how best is to solve the problem. Otherwise, if the guru just starts talking, and not listen to others what they have to say, then what happens, that there is a problem always.

You take a paternal attitude and then a sense of responsibility one must have, that it is your work. You have to do it. This is God’s work you are doing and you have to do it beautifully. So that the best thing will happen, will be that you will also get out of your ego, superego, problems, and others will be helped very much.
Now if somebody brings in some problem, say a little problem about say, somebody’s brother or sister, you see, this kind of a problem, somebody’s brother or sister, you see, this kind of a problem, then one should not get driven by that. Just see that letter- that you should write such a letter that, “Mother, such and such has happened and this is happening”. And you should put it before my photograph. That will solve the problem. And not to be worried on these points. On the contrary, a guru must give them a problem.

Sahaja Yogini: Must give them a problem?
Shri Mataji: A guru must give others a problem like, “We have to have a centre, what should we do? “
Sahaja Yogini: Oh, yes.
Shri Mataji: “We have to have a telephone, now what should we do?” You see, bigger problems like, “How should we arrange a program? How should we arrange a puja? Let’s see what have you got”. Instead of taking problems from them, you should say, “Now we have this problem now tell me”. So you put them up at a higher level and a bigger level and a wider level.

You see, in the beginning of course, because you see, all people are around us and all that, so we feel concerned, this, that. But actually, gradually, when you rise, you start thinking that these people are really of worth, no doubt. But if a guru has a proper direction, he’ll put the people on to the problems which are really facing in a big way, to everyone.

Now we have found out that if you just have a program, you could feel very boring. So, you can have a little sort of a tea or a dinner or something like that attached to it. And people can pay for it, you see, so there is more sort of give and take. Because at that level people are more sort of tuned to having a little dinner party so everybody can pay for it. Because at that level people are more sort of tuned to having a little dinner party so everybody can pay for it. If you have this kind of a program, then the thing will start moving much faster.

But if :you just say, “Come to the program, sit the hands like this”. You see, in the beginning, it is boring for them, because they think it’s [unclear]. But later on that’s the main thing, you know, that’s the most enjoyable. So, to begin with, you must say that, “We are going to have a tea after that, you people should pay for the tea”.
Vibrations are so much I must [unclear] Ah!
So, you see, you can have tapes and you can make it interesting Let them listen to the tapes. And let them listen to what it is. Then you can ask them to also- you can get Advent, but you can ask them questions and you should see what are the problems like that, you see. So, there is some rapport established first of all.

Say, “We will have a tape now”, and let them play the tape. Tell people to write down if they want any important points to be discussed, you see. And afterwards, you can discuss among yourself so that they are involved in the tape. And if you have any problems, you can always tell me. And I can write to you or I’ll telephone to you. Somehow, I’ll manage to contact you or I’ll ask somebody to write you. But you know how busy they keep me everywhere. And I have no time at all.

Also, you must get the photographs of all the people put them in an album. Keep writing when do they get the Realization, their names and addresses, it would be a good idea so that I can have an album which I can see every day, and my attention will be there.

Sahaja Yogini: Mother, may I ask one question? As one of the problems in Italy will be the knowledge of English, would you give a bandhan so that the people begin, feel like learning English and learn it fast and easily?
Shri Mataji: Yes, how many languages can I learn then? It’s better they learn English.
They are good at languages. I think they are quite good at languages.
English is all right for them and also, I think, Hindi would be all right. But French is rather difficult.

Sahaja Yogini: Mother, do you have any advice? Can you give us some advice for an introductory program? A [unclear] form, have to –
Shri Mataji: I mean, you see, Marie-Martine and you can [unclear] an advertisement and get other people also saying that, “This is Sahaja Yoga program”. Get that fellow who wrote about me. If he writes some article, in some other magazine or something you see. So, he can say that, you see, “If you can see clearly that you did feel the vibrations and all that, this is not to be taken so lightly, you see”.
Sahaja Yogini: He did feel the vibes.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Sahaja Yogini: He did feel the vibes.
He did feel.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, yes. He did. So, if he can write something and he should then say that, “These people are saying that she is the Comforter and she is this and that. If Christ has said that he is going to send some Comforter, why not you come and see for yourself?”
Sahaja Yogini: That’s right.
How long must we wait till we have some new people coming into this apartment?
Shri Mataji: You see, let them come. There’s no harm as such, but because if you find a center nothing like. But till you find a centre, they can come, it’s all right.
Sahaja Yogini: They can come right, very soon, if they are worried by the-
Shri Mataji: Yes, no, no problems. Because, you see, till you find a centre, they should come here. No problem, yes, it would be better. Because I’ve been here, So, by coming here, they will settle much faster, I think.
Sahaja Yogini: Oh, yes. So, we want to make many programs in a public room then.
Shri Mataji: In a public room, if you need a big crowd and all that, then you should have.
But you may need then to talk to them, you see, about what is to be done, or tell them that, “Now we need some money to have a public room”. Now these are the problems, you see, which should be discussed with them. And talk to them, “What can you suggest? Can you get some place?”

Sahaja Yogini: Would you like some tea, Mother?
Shri Mataji: Hum ?
Sahaja Yogini: Would you like a cup of tea?
Shri Mataji: All right. I take a cup of tea and then I get ready, then we’ll go.
It’s already 10 past.
I take a cup of tea and then I get ready and then already. I don’t know about [unclear].
Sahaja Yogi: It’s half pas ten, Mother, half past ten.
Shri Mataji: Half past ten, you see!
Sahaja Yogini: Ten thirty.
Shri Mataji: Is that sure? My watch.
Sahaja Yogini: Bolo Shri Bhagavati Mataji, Shri Nirmala Deviki jai!

So, I thank you very much, all of you, for organizing this program in Italy. And that bringing me closer to the Italian children. I thank you all very much.
Sahaja Yogini: We thank you, Mother.
Sahaja Yogi: Thank you Mother, so much.
Shri Mataji: You’ll translate to them. Gracie.
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.
Sahaja Yogini: Thank you from Rome, from Italy, Mother.
Shri Mataji: I beg your Pardon?
Sahaja Yogini: Thank you from Rome and the Italy,
Shri Mataji: May God bless you all.

[21:42 End of talk side A. ]

[Cut in the audio. Puja to the Devi. Names of the Devi]

[Side B. End of puja. Conversation around 41 minutes; very unclear.]
You must make copies of these tapes and translate in Italian. And give it to them so that they can read it, you see.
Also they can- [unclear] in Sanskrit. Sometimes, you are not translating.
Sahaja Yogini: In Sanskrit.
Shri Mataji: Hum, ‘nama’. There are only Gavin that has put some name [unclear] hundred and eight.
Sahaja Yogini: Mother, we want to thank you all of us, for this puja, which is a wonderful [unclear].

Shri Mataji: I’m your due. It has all that has to be.
Sahaja Yogini: We thank you also Mother, for so much time and so much patience and so much love.

Sahaja Yogini: Thank you, Mother, I feel so much confidence. [Unclear]
Sahaja Yogini: Thank you, Mother, [Unclear]

Shri Mataji: In the [unclear], I gave you my heart there. So, I am very concerned for the future of the people who will be there, whether they stick to Sahaja yoga or not, whether they have that assiduity to stick on, or may be lost, because once you have given them their second birth, they are your children. You tell them, “Mother was concerned about you all, that you should be serious and look after your Realisation. Because it’s a very precarious time, very important, very rightly”. I think, if this kind of a lecture you must tell to all the [unclear], so that they will feel it is possible to come down. When you are having other programs?
Sahaja Yogini: The next Thursday, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Will you be back?
Sahaja Yogini: Yes, I’ll just be back. I will be back the night before. It will be the 6 of May.
Shri Mataji: How will you be back so soon?
Sahaja Yogini: I will take the night train, Mother.
Shri Mataji: And they can take a train in the night.
Sahaja Yogini: Yes, they will take a train in the night.
Shri Mataji: So, you just- as soon as you go there, you book your seats for coming back. You have to be back in time. It’s very important that all of you should be there. At this time, whatever you desire, you must desire. Close your eyes, and desire for what [unclear]. Every thing that you want to have.
[End of side B]