Public Program

Lille (France)

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English Transcript Version Date: 2015-1006

Public Program. Lille (France), 2 May 1982.

I bow to all the seekers of truth. I’ve been here before, also, to Lille, and it has been a place of special attraction for Me somehow. The peace in this place is very attractive, and the people, I’m sure, are many, who are seekers in this place. But these are the days when all kinds of confusions have to be there, and this is the time when your wisdom is going to be judged, and your honest seeking and intelligence is going to be weighed.

It has been already prophesised that there are going to be many fake people on this earth, talking about God. But it is for you to know that you are seekers and you will have to find the truth, otherwise you can never be satisfied and the whole life will be a waste. The seeking that resides within you is neither your ego nor your superego. It is very easy to pamper your ego and feel happy with mundane things of gross life, or to go on indulging into all kinds of imaginary tragedies. But today the time has come for you to face the reality, which is beauty, which is glory within you, which is being promised that you are to be born again.

It is promised that you are to be comforted, and you are to be redeemed, and you are to be counselled about it. And, because of such an understanding of the atmosphere, many people are floating fake and absurd organisations to dissuade you. This is a special time, the greatest of all in the history of creation. In your evolutionary process, this is the last breakthrough which you have to achieve. Now, this evolutionary breakthrough is a living process, as it has been before. It is a natural process, and not a man-made process. So you cannot achieve it by your mental projections, but by some natural happening within you, so that your awareness becomes newly enlightened. That means something must happen to your awareness, and not to your outside world.

For example, you may have any kind of government, makes no difference. At the most, maybe little here and there, there will be a change. You may have any economic system or social systems, it’s not going to change much. If the tree is sick, you cannot treat it by treating his leaves, can you? You have to go to the roots. In the same way, the change has to take place in your roots, and the root has to be brought into play by giving some sort of a substantial help to the roots.

As it is a living process, you cannot pay for it, how can you? How much do you pay for being a human being? And what did you do to become a human being from that stage? It’s only the ego of man; he thinks he can even organise God. You cannot organise Him, and no use also fearing Him all the time, because He is compassion, He’s love, and He’s anxious, very anxious to emancipate the human beings to that state which was promised, so that human beings know their Creator forever. It should not be an imagination again, but a reality, a feeling in your central nervous system, in your awareness. Some people have given ideas that if you start jumping you might get to God, or if you change your dress, you might get to God, or if you do all kind of these nonsensical things, you will get to God. This is a mass behaviour of human beings, coming from ancient times, from animal state. If one animal does something, others are supposed to do the same. They do not think about it. But in human state they think, and their thinking is also limited. For example a man he spends, say, 500 pounds for getting to God. So, another one…so another thinks that …all right, I can pay 600 pounds to get to God. The third one will come with £6,000, why not?

So human beings have a speciality for bringing down all that is Divine to gross level, but animals cannot and they are not bothered. Somebody tells them that by giving up everything, so-called giving up, we have achieved God; people will give up their dresses, give up everything that is decency, decorum. By changing mental attitudes, you are not going to change anything inside, or by putting any kind of an human effort, you are not going to work it out. The One who has made you man, is going to make you superman!

At human level, it is difficult to believe. Animals never thought of it, while when human beings were made to think, they think we are going to do it ourselves. When we have not done so far anything about it, how are we going to do it anything about it further? So the force within us is going to do it, and there must be some force that has done it, and that force must be existing, and that is going to work it out for us.

Now, also we have to know very clearly what are we to expect to happen to us? In the different ancient scriptures, in every religion, there are been descriptions but which are very vague, and beyond human conception, beyond their understanding. For example, it is said in every possible scripture that you are to be born again. Today when we were coming to Lille, we met a bus which was written there, “You are to be born again. And Jesus is going to give you a rebirth. And it is Jesus Christ.” Yes, true! It is so! But how? How? How have they taken contract from Jesus Christ? Have they given Realisation to anyone so far? Only it is self-advertisement under a false name.

How are we going to be realised? Is there anything within us that is going to work it out? Intelligent people should go about it logically. Now we know that we have become human beings, definitely, but what is our powers? Or are we to be born in this confusion and die after this confusion? Worse than the life of animals because animals never have any confusion at least. Whatever problems they have, they solve and then they die. But they have limited problems. It’s only human beings can think of the beyond, and that’s how the confusion and complication is there.

Now, if I tell you anything about what is within us in the system built-in, you are not to take Me for granted. And you need not believe Me even if two French have certified Me just now. First of all, it has to happen within you, then you have to settle down with you, and you have to feel it yourself, you have to be the master of that Divine power, and then you will know that what I am saying is the truth. Simple is the truth that you are the instrument God has created. You are to be connected to the mains. You have to feel the power that is Divine, you have to enjoy it, and you have to manoeuvre it on a collective level. It’s so simple as that can be ended up in one sentence.

Now they must have already told you what is within us, have you?

Gregoire: “Not really, Mother …”

Shri Mataji: They were just certifying Me all the time, I believe. [INAUDIBLE] but the other part also they were just certifying Me. All right, thank you very much for the certificate! Now… But as a scientist, you must have an open heart to see what I have to say as a hypothesis. As you enter a university as a new student, you keep your mind open and a hypothesis has to be put before you, which has to be proved, and then if you see all that, then you have to become the master of that. It is a simple proposition.

Within ourselves are placed three powers. The first power is the power of desire. That acts for our past as well for our subconscious mind, and for the collective subconscious. The/another power is the power of action which acts on the right-hand side, and is responsible for the action of our mental and physical activities. These are the subtle powers within our spinal cord and in the brain, which manifest outside in the gross our left and right sympathetic nervous system. In the centre is another power which gives us our sustenance. By this power, the whole periodic table of the chemistry is established. Like carbon has four valancies, and the way we become human beings with ten sustenances. So this is the power which gives us our seeking and our evolution, ultimately. This energy manifests in the gross as parasympathetic nervous system. When any emergency takes place we go into action, or we go into our subconscious, or into emotional activities. The sympathetic nervous system of the left and right goes into action. For example, if you are frightened and you are running, the whole body goes into a state of emergency, but the central path, the central energy, of parasympathetic, brings it back to normal.

As there’s very little known to the doctors about parasympathetic nervous system, because it is absolutely autonomous, works on itself. And what is this “auto”, then? Just giving some branding somebody by some name you do not explain. If there is an “auto”, who is this “auto”? This “auto” is the spirit in your heart. This spirit is the reflection of God within yourself. And this spirit actually looks after the parasympathetic. It is not in our conscious mind. We cannot feel the spirit. There are many people, I’ve seen, that, “My spirit says so”. This is also imaginary, because there is no rapport established as yet with your spirit. It has to come in your central nervous system feeling, because whatever you have achieved so far is expressed in your central nervous system.

So, now, whatever is left within us is this, is to bring that spirit into our conscious mind, into our attention. This is the breakthrough. Like an instrument is created and is put to the mains. Like the car is made and it has to be started, is connected. Without starting the car, what’s the use of moving the wheels? Without connecting the telephone, what’s the use of talking? Now, what do we have to expect when we think we are connected? Could be only our thinking?

Now, when this happening takes place, actually, the fourth power which is lying there, called as Kundalini in Sanskrit language, is a residual power rises through these six centres, going upward, piercing through this fontanel bone area, giving you your real baptism. And at the end of it, you see so many flame-like things are looking, is a lotus. So, when this happens, actually all these centres that are shown here look like little flames as described in the Bible that, “I will appear before you like tongues of flames.” But nobody is explaining all these things. This is the tree of life!

Moreover, one becomes so one-sided with whatever one has, that one does not want to see that it should be related with something else. There is no understanding of spiritual life on a mental level. For example, the description of Christ given in the ancient Indian scriptures, He’s called as Mahavishnu, and He is told to be the support of the universe. But who reads Indian scriptures to that extent? Because in England people believe that Christ was born in England. I hope French don’t believe like that, that He was a French. So, they just don’t want to see anything else.

Now, this is one of the facts, one can see that this kind of one-sided view of everything and fanaticism has led human beings into great confusion as far as spiritual life is concerned. Actually, up to Christ’s birth, most of the knowledge of Bible was taken from various people, not from one person, and it was never accepted that one could go little beyond to see what is the reference there is in the books which are much more ancient than Bible. There are books which are much more ancient than Bible, and people have lived much before Christ, so there must be something written about Christ in their books.

It is said that this deity will incarnate on this earth and He will be responsible for forgiving your karmas and your sins. When the Kundalini rises and pierces through this centre, which is the centre of Christ, that’s the last one, from which one it has to pass to get into the limbic area, then Christ is awakened there, and once He’s awakened, He sucks in the ego and superego, built in by these two energies of your desire and action. Thus, a space is created in your fontanel bone area, and you get your Realisation.

Like in Sanskrit language, a realised soul is called as a “dwijaha”. “Dwija”, means the one who is born again, and also the bird is also called “dwija”, because he comes out as an egg, and then he gets to the stage of a bird. So, some transformation has to take place within yourself. A great psychologist, Jung, who got Realisation in his lifetime said that person has to become collectively conscious. He said that, “There is collective unconscious, which sends symbols to inform us in our dreams.” And he said that you have to become conscious of that unconscious.

So, it is a happening to your awareness. Like a dog, if he passes through a dirty lane, he doesn’t see anything there dirty. Human beings, when they pass through the dirt, they know it is dirty. When they are human beings; they do not know what is anti-God, and pro-God activity. When they do something which is against them, they do not know they are doing something which is against. They do not know that they are doing something that will take them down into Hell, and they do things collectively to bring about such an atmosphere that even their children go down: that is how we had fall of Roman Empires, and many Empires, and God knows now how many empires are now going to be fallen.

So, he does not know how he’s behaving towards himself and towards his society, towards his nation and towards the whole universe. All his enterprises are linear in movement and they went back and come back to him, and hit him. Then they say that we are, in French, les misérables. Create your own problems and then you say that we are very unhappy. But a realised soul knows. Knows, as a reality, as a feeling, not as an emotional feeling, because that could be relative, but as absolute on his fingertips, on his hands, that this is wrong.

So what happens when the Kundalini passes through these centres and pierces through this fontanel bone area? For the feeling, you start feeling a cool breeze coming out of your head. Not always, first the heat comes out: heat of the liver, could be quiet a lot, may burning. And then comes out the cool breeze, and then you feel completely relaxed in thoughtless awareness. You feel you have become a witness of the whole play now. At the same time, in most of the cases, you start feeling it in your hands, flowing that energy. But as a result of this happening, your health improves.

Recently, in New York, a blood cancer patient was cured and sent back to India. In Paris, a lady was cured of her, again, blood cancer and was sent out off the hospital. This is the minimum that happens. This is the minimum a realised soul can do. Many mad people have been cured. In this mad world, there are very few normal people actually, and they have been cured, they have become normal, their beauty expressed in their life, and in their face and in their behaviour. All their habits drop out in most of the cases. Some of them are little possessed, so they take time. You are no more slave of any such habits that makes you absolutely lost in life. You become the master of yourself, and once you become that, you can give awakening to others.

In this fake gurus system, in the fake guru system, they will give you big, big stories, that the guru has this power and that power, but what about the power of the seeker? Everyone has power within himself which must be enlightened. Whatever one may say – I’m this and I’m that – has nothing to do with you, unless and until you get your own power and manifest it because if you’re the spirit, you must feel your spirit, and you must feel your own power. But these are not powers which are absurd, like flying in the air. Already, there are so many planes flying, imagine human beings start flying, what will happen?! I always say that the guru who says so, should be put on tower of Pisa and let’s see how he flies!

So, all these absurd talks and nonsense is not what is self-realisation is. It is the breakthrough that is promised, it is that judgment which is being told in the scriptures, it’s not something cheap that can be sold! Is the most serious thing, about which we should be careful. If you have missed it, you have missed it forever. And then the last sorting out may start, and you will be nowhere. Nobody’s going to come and persuade you and ask you, and request you that “Please, become your spirit.”

But unlike animals, human beings take to false things much faster. If you put a plastic flower and a real flower, no bee will go to the plastic flower; they’re not fools and stupid things. But 99% will go to plastic if they are human beings, I’m sure. That’s the beauty that, somehow, we do not know what is plastic and what is real. When the real come, you crucify them, you beat them, you torture them, and when the false comes in, you give them Rolls-Royces, and aeroplanes and everything.

Of course, nobody real needs even a single farthing from you. Such a person is not interested in your purse, and does not require anything of that kind. Such a person is above all these nonsensical comforts and nonsensical ideas of human beings. You cannot purchase such a person, nor can control. He’s a free bird, and the king of his own. But He’s compassion and love. And in that compassion He wants you, He loves you because He can’t help it. In His love, He suffers everything. He has patience and understanding – understanding of the limitations and the ignorance of human beings.

But it cannot be forced, and asked to eat something, if you do not want. Actually, so many gurus say that we take money because otherwise people don’t take things seriously. Like you pay some money for a show, and it’s a bad one, still you go through it, because it’s a bad show, but doesn’t matter, because you have paid for it. And then you pay more if they say, because you have paid less, you go on like this, like mad. That’s why reality will grow very slowly. It has taken thousands of years to come to this mass level, or say, collective level. But plastic flowers are very easy to create.

Now, with this happening, as I told you, the physical and emotional side is absolutely balanced. and all such diseases like epilepsy and others, like lunacy and all that, which are torturing the minds of people, are cured. Even the physical problems of people who have indulged into wrong type of habits, like bad diseases for men and women, they can get cured. The other day, same happened in Rome. That all gets cured, but the only thing is that you have to ask for your Realisation.

God has given you freedom to decide. If you want to go to Heaven, you can go, if you want to go to hell, you can. The other day, one mad boy asked Me, “Mother, how do you go to Hell?” Nowadays they are planning in the other way, because they have failed this side… ascent, so they are trying to have a descent. I said, “You take two running jumps and you can go there.” But for your ascent, you have to allow your Kundalini to rise, and break the Sahastrara, or the break … the Brahmarandra, the whole … the Divine whole to the subtle … to the Divine power which is surrounding us.

We have taken this Divine power for granted. This is the power that pulsates in every atom. This is the power that transforms flowers into fruits, seeds into trees. This is the power that has made you human beings. This is the power that gives you children of your temperament, of your style, it sorts out. This is the power that controls exactly if there’s a mango tree, you will get a mango, and nothing else. The total living work is done by this power. Either there is this power, or the power of man who has made an atomic bomb, because he has tried to separate something that was done by this power. Even the destruction power that is assimilated there is the anger of this power. Man can only transform matter, which is dead. He cannot do any living work.

This is the Divine power, which is the Holy Ghost; we start feeling on our fingers, as cool breeze. Is described in the Bible and described in many books, specially by Adi Shankaracharya, he’s called them as ‘Saundarya Lahari’ [meaning] ‘The waves of beauty’. The first thing is to feel that. Like you come in a dark room, you just put on the light, and then you verify everything, and see for yourself. It is very easy to say what is there [n this cool breeze feeling. Have you felt it before? What is this? How it works? How it helps you? How you become the master of it, is the knowledge you have to have.

In this short time, I’m sorry, I won’t be able to elaborately tell you all about these centres and all these, how to awaken them, and what happens, because the time is rather short. In London, I must have given about six, seven hundred lectures, and everywhere in the whole world, I don’t know how many lectures. When you get established in Sahaja Yoga, when you become absolutely master of this Divine power, as there are many now we have imported from outside France, then alone, you will be given all the further knowledge about it. That is first to be judged how far you are capable of handling this Divine power. But it works out in a very simple way.

For today we have two little children who are born realised. One is, I think about three years, two years, isn’t she, Olympia? “One and three quarters.” One and three quarters, and another is – how much is she? About eight years or so. And the one who is not even talking, shows the finger which is burning, to denote the different centres by putting in the mouth. There are many children who are born like that in every country today. But how will you understand even those children, if you haven’t got your Realisation?

So, this time is the most important time and all human beings, all those who want their Realisation, should take it. And the rest of the people, who do not want to have it, can have their own way, and then I’m not responsible. John’s revelation, he has limited it so much. He says only 1,044,000, no, 144,000 people are going to be realised. Imagine what a limited number it is! Better enlist yourself fast! I hope today it will work out with all those who are here, and you will feel very nice. But that does not mean that you should think now you have got Realisation, so you are now finished with it.

Like the other day in Rome, one journalist came, and he felt. He said, “I’ve never expected this, I’m fantastically good, and all that, and vibrations I’m feeling, cool breeze I’m feeling” and then he never appeared on the scene. And he said that, “I’m enjoying my self-realisation.” It is very selfish, I think. Just to enjoy for yourself. Imagine the light enjoying its own light, and giving no light to others. Why to give enlightenment to any such selfish personality? He will lose all his vibrations, I can assure you, and then he’ll come back to Me, after one year, and say, “Mother, I’ve got a headache here, and my foot is like this, and I met with an accident …” And those who were with him, now will go too far, and maybe giving Realisation to so many people.

God has no interest in such wasters. Do you repair the lights which are never going to give light? God is the source of all the common sense, and He’s not going to do something to waste His energy on people who have no value for their own lives. So, I tell you again, that you are important, very important creation of God as a human being. And in His compassion and love, He has decided to give you this emancipation, so that you enter into the kingdom of God, and reside with His bliss. You are the most important than among all the evolved things, and the grace is absolutely openly flowing. You don’t have to confess anything, you don’t have to feel guilty, you don’t have to worry what you have done before, you don’t have to pay, or jump, or do any mental or physical exercise, it works out.

But the transition from working it out and developing into its full scale is a dangerous place. Like a bird which halfway comes out of the egg, and still is sticking on to everything that is dirty in the egg. Here, one has to fearlessly, completely thrash out all that is misidentification, and spread the wings into this new freedom. With complete confidence and understanding that your Creator is the Almighty, and that you are in His domain, and that He loves you.

May God bless you!

If you have any questions, I would like to answer. … It’s just a real comfortable seat. Grégoire, just listen. Why don’t you come here? You come here Grégoire. You come…no you come! No, you have to come because you’ll translate to Me, because I won’t understand.

Grégoire: He has received an initiation, and he would like to know whether he can receive an initiation from you, and if one can have two gurus at the same time.

Shri Mataji: Excuse Me. If you have really received the real initiation, you don’t need another one. That’s a very good thing, I would like to go and meet your guru if you are really realised. But supposing, if you have been to a wrong one, I’ll have to really work very hard on you, I must say. Because supposing a train that is derailed, has to be brought back to the … And if you want to believe still in the same guru, if he’s wrong? If he’s good…very well and good… If he’s wrong, and you want to continue, then I cannot pull you out, because, you see …

For example, a person who knows how to swim, I don’t have to bother; he’ll come on the shore. If he does not know how to swim, also is easier to pull him in the boat. But some crocodile is holding his foot, and he’s still wanting to have his foot in the mouth of the crocodile, then what am I to do? Then you have to give up the crocodile, because you can’t see the crocodile, but I see the crocodile. And if I say you are the … that he is a crocodile, you may get angry with Me. But I’m only afraid that after some time you’ll find sitting in his stomach. That’s why despite even if you get angry, I’ll have to tell you that this is not a correct guru. If he’s a correct guru, I would love to go and meet him, I would be very happy.

Everybody who calls himself a guru, is … I think … not a guru at all. I’ve known people who have been to gurus, who have been got … head of the academies and all that of these gurus, are falling on the street with epilepsy. So, we can’t have darkness and light together. Because, I’m not a guru, I’m your Mother. Actually, I want you to be your own guru. But if you have a nice good guru, who has given you initiation, in the sense that he’s awakened your Kundalini, it makes My life easier.

That we’ll know in one minute, even a child can say. You see, some of these gurus can give you blisters. All, most of the cancer patients, are initiated by some sort of a thing like this, like black magic, or gurus, or ESP’s, or what you call them, mesmerism. ESP is extra-sensory-perceptions. You see, all this mesmerism, and also what you call hypnosis, even hypnosis, even psychologist is unauthorised, it is all unauthorised behaviour. All these psychologists really need a psychologist like Me to cure them. I’ve been curing so many psychologists Myself.

One of them is Grégoire’s friend who is a first class, first of Oxford University and Cambridge University, a Mr. Rustum. “Jungian” too … now he’s all right. He’s not “Freudian.” “Freudians” are more difficult.

Now, any other question?
For translation, tell him to say two sentences, and then you can translate. It’s like a lecture, not a question. All right? Uh.Ya! Decca.

First of all… [the name of the person not clear]

Grégoire: He’s very happy that you are against the fake gurus, and he thank you for this. And number two, I mean the main question is: he does not believe in human freedom, because he says we are not free to be born when you want, and to die when we want, and to have accidents when we want, and these kind of things.

Shri Mataji: I’m talking of that freedom only, I believe in it, and you can have it also, [INAUDIBLE, MAYBE then would be how?]

I’ll give you an example: there was a lady, you see, there was a lady, this Algerian, was told she was going to die in one week’s time, doctors said, everybody said … And she is not only living, she’s not only living, but she’s doing very well now, she’s with her children and everything.

Why, our president of India, who came to London airport, and they told that he’s going to die, they had prepared for his funeral and everything in India. And I met him at the airport; you know that, in ten minutes he got cured, and he went there, he walked on, everybody started seeing whether if he was coming or his ghost was walking down, it was like that. And he’s still there, still there.

All right, then … about accidents, you see, this … so many accidents one and 1,001. But I’ll tell you one where the bus fell down, with the Chhaya pandit coming to see Me, about eighty feet, double rumbling, and it stood on it’s four wheels and the driver ran away with fear, you see, but somebody knew how to drive, and the key was in there. They started the thing and they came out, and not one person was hurt.

Actually, even if Sahaja Yogi wants to die, he cannot die. He’ll be looked after by angels. Is a fact. Tell him that, you see, all this could be a … stories to him, but all is a fact, and you see for yourself, if I say so, why not have it? It’s all free. He is honest because, at this point, you see Grégoire, he is honest because at this point what he says is true, because he’s not free. But I’m talking of something that has to happen to you, all right?

Question (unknown man): You said that you made a statement that there is a direct correlation between black magic and spiritualism, and cancer.

Shri Mataji: I’ve seen that.

Question (following): Are any statistics available on that statement?

Shri Mataji: Yes, you see, what happen, whenever I treat a patient of cancer, now I have treated … and all these people have treated. You see, what I find, there is a centre in us, which is, what we call the left Swadisthana. Is this centre, where we feel the heat here, on this one… Left Swadisthana is the, I didn’t talk to you about centres, you see. This yellow coloured one, left Swadisthana, you see on the left-hand side, comes to people who indulge into unauthorised subconscious areas, you see? Who deal with unauthorised subconscious areas, and invariably, every cancer patient who has come to Me, had the strongest of this centre catching. With others on the left, more on the left, always. So, that’s why doctors cannot cure it.

Grégoire: May I translate, Mother?

Shri Mataji: All right, say it, and further also, I will elaborate it, scientifically.

I’ll tell you the scientific explanation, all right? Now, about six months or eight months back I saw a film of cancer experts on cancer. About how far they have reached, you see? What I’ve been talking for so many years, now they are talking about it. Now what they have photographed are the elements or, you can say, the things, the proteins – they call it protein 52, protein 58, they give the names as usual, doctors give only names, you see…they don’t know what it is, so they call it protein 52, 58, something like that, and 59, and these proteins, they are photographed even, which looks very funny, in their photographic thing. And they have seen that these things come and attack and trigger the cancer. And they come (they have said it, very clearly, all of them) they come from the area which is built within us since our creation. So, it is from the collective subconscious. Now when you people do spiritualism, or these wrong gurus, and fake gurus and all these people, what they do is, that, they somehow or other take you to your collective subconscious, where there are all that is dead. And there are viruses, means dead plants, and dead animals and dead human beings. Mostly these gurus use dead spirits. Even the mesmerism and ESP, all is that. Of course, some of the gurus put you also through your ego, pampering on the right-hand side, into supraconscious, on the right-hand side into collective supraconscious, and you develop other diseases because of that collective supraconscious. Like Hitler, would be there waiting for anybody to jump into, if you go to collective supraconscious. So, it could be both ways, but mostly, a cancer is left-sided. It may start with the movement towards supraconscious, you may move to supraconscious, but as a momentum, you see, you might as a swing, go to the left too much, you see?

So, it is an oscillation, but when that, it is settled, I mean when it is triggered, it is the left, of that I’m sure. But, you will see yourself, once you get Realisation you will immediately see. All this will be your own knowledge. Say, a person has cancer, say, of say. Vishuddhi, of throat. Now, he must have right Vishuddhi, left Vishuddhi, and … special … This one.

Now, this left Vishuddhi, is coming from feeling guilty. It’s very dangerous to feel guilty. Is absurd. What guilt can you have? It is the ocean of love. Unnecessarily you are just imagining, like little children. All right, are you satisfied, now?

Man: No.

Shri Mataji: Why? Because, no, you are not, no, no, no…I agree, you won’t be satisfied, because you are not yet realised. Once you are realised, this is a thing to be experimented and seen, isn’t it? Supposing I’m telling you the truth, and the laws of Divine, you have to enter into that realm, and see yourself, isn’t it? Like a scientist.

Man: I can accept that, but I still didn’t get an answer to my question.

Grégoire: But may I just say, that we …there are some doctors in Sahaja Yoga, one of them is here, and they have started …He was asking about statistics …so simply statistics …

Shri Mataji: Ah! Ah.Ah.Ah…Yeah…yeah…

Grégoire: The answer of Mataji has gone more away of your question, but they are now working out some basic data, but it’s a process which has just started, so we cannot provide you statistics as such.

Shri Mataji: Statistics, …Yeah…yeah…yeah… But I, one thing I will tell you, Grégoire. You see, it’s a headache, you know, to keep statistics. We are not going to do that, I’m telling you. I’m fed up, you see, we don’t want to keep files of this, why should we? You see like… I’ll tell you, I went to this Medical College, because I’ve cured people now, and I cured the President, so they have to ask Me, how I did it, isn’t it? He understands?

And I told doctors all about sympathetic, parasympathetic, and everything, and they asked Me … for … then they sent Me …”How many people you have cured, and give their names, and this and that …” I said, “I do not know how to keep files. And it is disgraceful. That you give somebody out of your love and you record it, it’s disgraceful, isn’t it?”

And for what to do? For why? Because, we are not here like doctors, mercenary …

No, we are not here to cure people. We are here to give you Realisation, but as a by-product people get cured. But we are not interested in curing people as patients in the hospital, not at all. Because what’s the use of curing these useless people [INAUDIBLE but G’s translation indicated “if you cure these people, they are not interested in their spiritual Realisation.”]
There are most of them are useless people, I tell you.

There was one [INAUDIBLE] who met Me in that [INAUDIBLE] six thousand people out of that got hold of Me, because he had angina. I said, “Well, all right, I am going away now to Pune, he came to … he was living in Pune, a very rich man and all that. I cured his angina. He got at least twenty-six people to Me. Then I cured all of them, then again they brought twenty each … and I was just exhausted for nothing at all. So I told him, “Have you got any friend who is able-bodied, or are all of them like this?” So then he said, he arranged a very great program in Pune and he gave Realisation to many people [INAUDIBLE]. So I told all these people there were, you yourself may get Realisation, become masters and doctors and cure your relations – why bother Me? I do not want to take any credit or discredit of that. I just want that you get all the knowledge and you do it yourself. Every time it happens, you see, one to five hundred – I decide I will not take anyone, but again something happens, they catch hold of Me, again you see this starts. Because I feel now that the person has suffered, but the person has no consideration at all. I cure him, he gathers the old people, fourteen people will fly out to, say, London, to get cured. That’s what it is. They won’t come for realisation. What’s the use having all such healthy people, so-called, if they are good-for-nothing for Sahaja Yoga, for God?

At least you should never say you’ve been cured, because I’ve seen doctors might get after your life. Better let them cook their own stew. But when the doctors have failed, they come to Me! [INAUDIBLE] sitting down there. He had the same left-Swadisthana problem. He will tell you. So why go to that extent, you better have it, now why worry about everybody else? Tomorrow you can talk to doctors. Yes, you can please them. You can become knowledge. All right?

May God bless you!

== Note ==
French translation by Grégoire
I bow to all the seekers of truth. I’ve been here before, also, to Lille, and it has been a place of special attraction for Me somehow. The peace in this place is very attractive, and the people, I’m sure, are many, who are seekers in this place. But these are the days when all kinds of confusions have to be there, and this is the time when your wisdom is going to be judged, and your honest seeking and intelligence is going to be weighed.

It has been already prophesised that there are going to be many fake people on this earth, talking about God. But it is for you to know that you are seekers and you will have to find the truth, otherwise you can never be satisfied and the whole life will be a waste. The seeking that resides within you is neither your ego nor your superego. It is very easy to pamper your ego and feel happy with mundane things of gross life, or to go on indulging into all kinds of imaginary tragedies. But today the time has come for you to face the reality, which is beauty, which is glory within you, which is being promised that you are to be born again.

It is promised that you are to be comforted, and you are to be redeemed, and you are to be counseled about it. And, because of such an understanding of the atmosphere, many people are floating fake and absurd organisations to dissuade you. This is a special time, the greatest of all in the history of creation. In your evolutionary process, this is the last breakthrough which you have to achieve. Now, this evolutionary breakthrough is a living process, as it has been before. It is a natural process, and not a man-made process. So you cannot achieve it by your mental projections, but by some natural happening within you, so that your awareness becomes newly enlightened. That means something must happen to your awareness, and not to your outside world.

For example, you may have any kind of government, makes no difference. At the most, maybe little here and there, there will be a change. You may have any economic system or social systems, it’s not going to change much. If the tree is sick, you cannot treat it by treating his leaves, can you? You have to go to the roots. In the same way, the change has to take place in your roots, and the root has to be brought into play by giving some sort of a substantial help to the roots.

As it is a living process, you cannot pay for it, how can you? How much do you pay for being a human being? And what did you do to become a human being from that stage? It’s only the ego of man; he thinks he can even organise God. You cannot organise Him, and no use also fearing Him all the time, because He is compassion, He’s love, and He’s anxious, very anxious to emancipate the human beings to that state which was promised, so that human beings know their Creator forever. It should not be an imagination again, but a reality, a feeling in your central nervous system, in your awareness. Some people have given ideas that if you start jumping you might get to God, or if you change your dress, you might get to God, or if you do all kind of these nonsensical things, you will get to God. This is a mass behviour of human beings, coming from ancient times, from animal state. If one animal does something, others are supposed to do the same. They do not think about it. But in human state they think, and their thinking is also limited. For example a man he spends, say, 500 pounds for getting to God. So, another one…so another thinks that …alright, I can pay 600 pounds to get to God. The third one will come with 6,000 pounds, why not?

So human beings have a speciality for bringing down all that is Divine to gross level, but animals cannot and they are not bothered. Somebody tells them that by giving up everything, so-called giving up, we have achieved God; people will give up their dresses, give up everything that is decency, decorum. By changing mental attitudes, you are not going to change anything inside, or by putting any kind of an human effort, you are not going to work it out. The One who has made you man, is going to make you superman!

At human level, it is difficult to believe. Animals never thought of it, while when human beings were made to think, they think we are going to do it ourselves. When we have not done so far anything about it, how are we going to do it anything about it further? So the force within us is going to do it, and there must be some force that has done it, and that force must be existing, and that is going to work it out for us.

Now, also we have to know very clearly what are we to expect to happen to us? In the different ancient scriptures, in every religion, there are been descriptions but which are very vague, and beyond human conception, beyond their understanding. For example, it is said in every possible scripture that you are to be born again. Today when we were coming to Lille, we met a bus which was written there, “You are to be born again. And Jesus is going to give you a rebirth. And it is Jesus Christ.” Yes, true! It is so! But how? How? How have they taken contract from Jesus Christ? Have they given Realisation to anyone so far? Only it is self-advertisement under a false name.

How are we going to be realised? Is there anything within us that is going to work it out? Intelligent people should go about it logically. Now we know that we have become human beings, definitely, but what is our powers? Or are we to be born in this confusion and die after this confusion? Worse than the life of animals because animals never have any confusion at least. Whatever problems they have, they solve and then they [INAUDIBLE – die?]. But they have limited problems. It’s only human beings can think of the beyond, and that’s how the confusion and complication is there.

Now, if I tell you anything about what is within us in the system built-in, you are not to take Me for granted. And you need not believe Me even if two French have certified Me just now. First of all, it has to happen within you, then you have to settle down with you, and you have to feel it yourself, you have to be the master of that Divine power, and then you will know that what I am saying is the truth. Simple is the truth that you are the instrument God has created. You are to be connected to the mains. You have to feel the power that is Divine, you have to enjoy it, and you have to maneuver it on a collective level. It’s so simple as that can be ended up in one sentence.

Now they must have already told you what is within us, have you?

[Gregoire: “Not really, Mother …”]

Shri Mataji: They were just certifying Me all the time, I believe. [INAUDIBLE] but the other part also they were just certifying Me. All right, thank you very much for the certificate! Now… But as a scientist, you must have an open heart to see what I have to say as a hypothesis. As you enter a university as a new student, you keep your mind open and a hypothesis has to be put before you, which has to be proved, and then if you see all that, then you have to become the master of that. It is a simple proposition.

Within ourselves are placed three powers. The first power is the power of desire. That acts for our past as well for our subconscious mind, and for the collective subconscious. The/another power is the power of action which acts on the right-hand side, and is responsible for the action of our mental and physical activities. These are the subtle powers within our spinal cord and in the brain, which manifest outside in the gross our left and right sympathetic nervous system. In the centre is another power which gives us our sustenance. By this power, the whole periodic table of the chemistry is established. Like carbon has four valancies, and the way we become human beings with ten sustenances. So this is the power which gives us our seeking and our evolution, ultimately. This energy manifests in the gross as parasympathetic nervous system. When any emergency takes place we go into action, or we go into our subconscious, or into emotional activities. The sympathetic nervous system of the left and right goes into action. For example, if you are frightened and you are running, the whole body goes into a state of emergency, but the central path, the central energy, of parasympathetic, brings it back to normal.

As there’s very little known to the doctors about parasympathetic nervous system, because it is absolutely autonomous, works on itself. And what is this “auto”, then? Just giving some branding somebody by some name you do not explain. If there is an “auto”, who is this “auto”? This “auto” is the spirit in your heart. This spirit is the reflection of God within yourself. And this spirit actually looks after the parasympathetic. It is not in our conscious mind. We cannot feel the spirit. There are many people, I’ve seen, that, “My spirit says so”. This is also imaginary, because there is no rapport established as yet with your spirit. It has to come in your central nervous system feeling, because whatever you have achieved so far is expressed in your central nervous system.

So, now, whatever is left within us is this, is to bring that spirit into our conscious mind, into our attention. This is the breakthrough. Like an instrument is created and is put to the mains. Like the car is made and it has to be started, is connected. Without starting the car, what’s the use of moving the wheels? Without connecting the telephone, what’s the use of talking? Now, what do we have to expect when we think we are connected? Could be only our thinking?

Now, when this happening takes place, actually, the fourth power which is lying there, called as Kundalini in Sanskrit language, is a residual power rises through these six centres, going upward, piercing through this fontanel bone area, giving you your real baptism. And at the end of it, you see so many flame-like things are looking, is a lotus. So, when this happens, actually all these centres that are shown here look like little flames as described in the Bible that, “I will appear before you like tongues of flames.” But nobody is explaining all these things. This is the tree of life!

Moreover, one becomes so one-sided with whatever one has, that one does not want to see that it should be related with something else. There is no understanding of spiritual life on a mental level. For example, the description of Christ given in the ancient Indian scriptures, He’s called as Mahavishnu, and He is told to be the support of the universe. But who reads Indian scriptures to that extent? Because in England people believe that Christ was born in England. I hope French don’t believe like that, that He was a French. So, they just don’t want to see anything else.

Now, this is one of the facts, one can see that this kind of one-sided view of everything and fanaticism has led human beings into great confusion as far as spiritual life is concerned. Actually, up to Christ’s birth, most of the knowledge of Bible was taken from various people, not from one person, and it was never accepted that one could go little beyond to see what is the reference there is in the books which are much more ancient than Bible. There are books which are much more ancient than Bible, and people have lived much before Christ, so there must be something written about Christ in their books.

It is said that this deity will incarnate on this earth and He will be responsible for forgiving your karmas and your sins. When the Kundalini rises and pierces through this centre, which is the centre of Christ, that’s the last one, from which one it has to pass to get into the limbic area, then Christ is awakened there, and once He’s awakened, He sucks in the ego and superego, built in by these two energies of your desire and action. Thus, a space is created in your fontanel bone area, and you get your Realisation.

Like in Sanskrit language, a realised soul is called as a “dwijaha”. “Dwija”, means the one who is born again, and also the bird is also called “dwija”, because he comes out as an egg, and then he gets to the stage of a bird. So, some transformation has to take place within yourself. A great psychologist, Jung, who got Realisation in his lifetime said that person has to become collectively conscious. He said that, “There is collective unconscious, which sends symbols to inform us in our dreams.” And he said that you have to become conscious of that unconscious.

So, it is a happening to your awareness. Like a dog, if he passes through a dirty lane, he doesn’t see anything there dirty. Human beings, when they pass through the dirt, they know it is dirty. When they are human beings; they do not know what is anti-God, and pro-God activity. When they do something which is against them, they do not know they are doing something which is against. They do not know that they are doing something that will take them down into Hell, and they do things collectively to bring about such an atmosphere that even their children go down: that is how we had fall of Roman Empires, and many Empires, and God knows now how many empires are now going to be fallen.

So, he does not know how he’s behaving towards himself and towards his society, towards his nation and towards the whole universe. All his enterprises are linear in movement and they went back and come back to him, and hit him. Then they say that we are, in French, les misérables. Create your own problems and then you say that we are very unhappy. But a realised soul knows. Knows, as a reality, as a feeling, not as an emotional feeling, because that could be relative, but as absolute on his fingertips, on his hands, that this is wrong.

So what happens when the Kundalini passes through these centres and pierces through this fontanel bone area? For the feeling, you start feeling a cool breeze coming out of your head. Not always, first the heat comes out: heat of the liver, could be quiet a lot, may burning. And then comes out the cool breeze, and then you feel completely relaxed in thoughtless awareness. You feel you have become a witness of the whole play now. At the same time, in most of the cases, you start feeling it in your hands, flowing that energy. But as a result of this happening, your health improves.

Recently, in New York, a blood cancer patient was cured and sent back to India. In Paris, a lady was cured of her, again, blood cancer and was sent out off the hospital. This is the minimum that happens. This is the minimum a realised soul can do. Many mad people have been cured. In this mad world, there are very few normal people actually, and they have been cured, they have become normal, their beauty expressed in their life, and in their face and in their behviour. All their habits drop out in most of the cases. Some of them are little possessed, so they take time. You are no more slave of any such habits that makes you absolutely lost in life. You become the master of yourself, and once you become that, you can give awakening to others.

In this fake gurus system, in the fake guru system, they will give you big, big stories, that the guru has this power and that power, but what about the power of the seeker? Everyone has power within himself which must be enlightened. Whatever one may say – I’m this and I’m that – has nothing to do with you, unless and until you get your own power and manifest it because if you’re the spirit, you must feel your spirit, and you must feel your own power. But these are not powers which are absurd, like flying in the air. Already, there are so many planes flying, imagine human beings start flying, what will happen?! I always say that the guru who says so, should be put on tower of Pisa and let’s see how he flies!

So, all these absurd talks and nonsense is not what is self-realisation is. It is the breakthrough that is promised, it is that judgment which is being told in the scriptures, it’s not something cheap that can be sold! Is the most serious thing, about which we should be careful. If you have missed it, you have missed it forever. And then the last sorting out may start, and you will be nowhere. Nobody’s going to come and persuade you and ask you, and request you that “Please, become your spirit.”

But unlike animals, human beings take to false things much faster. If you put a plastic flower and a real flower, no bee will go to the plastic flower; they’re not fools and stupid things. But 99% will go to plastic if they are human beings, I’m sure. That’s the beauty that, somehow, we do not know what is plastic and what is real. When the real come, you crucify them, you beat them, you torture them, and when the false comes in, you give them Rolls-Royces, and aeroplanes and everything.

Of course, nobody real needs even a single farthing from you. Such a person is not interested in your purse, and does not require anything of that kind. Such a person is above all these nonsensical comforts and nonsensical ideas of human beings. You cannot purchase such a person, nor can control. He’s a free bird, and the king of his own. But He’s compassion and love. And in that compassion He wants you, He loves you because He can’t help it. In His love, He suffers everything. He has patience and understanding – understanding of the limitations and the ignorance of human beings.

But it cannot be forced, and asked to eat something, if you do not want. Actually, so many gurus say that we take money because otherwise people don’t take things seriously. Like you pay some money for a show, and it’s a bad one, still you go through it, because it’s a bad show, but doesn’t matter, because you have paid for it. And then you pay more if they say, because you have paid less, you go on like this, like mad. That’s why reality will grow very slowly. It has taken thousands of years to come to this mass level, or say, collective level. But plastic flowers are very easy to create.

Now, with this happening, as I told you, the physical and emotional side is absolutely balanced. and all such diseases like epilepsy and others, like lunacy and all that, which are torturing the minds of people, are cured. Even the physical problems of people who have indulged into wrong type of habits, like bad diseases for men and women, they can get cured. The other day, same happened in Rome. That all gets cured, but the only thing is that you have to ask for your Realisation.

God has given you freedom to decide. If you want to go to Heaven, you can go, if you want to go to hell, you can. The other day, one mad boy asked Me, “Mother, how do you go to Hell?” Nowadays they are planning in the other way, because they have failed this side… ascent, so they are trying to have a descent. I said, “You take two running jumps and you can go there.” But for your ascent, you have to allow your Kundalini to rise, and break the Sahastrara, or the break … the Brahmarandra, the whole … the Divine whole to the subtle … to the Divine power which is surrounding us.

We have taken this Divine power for granted. This is the power that pulsates in every atom. This is the power that transforms flowers into fruits, seeds into trees. This is the power that has made you human beings. This is the power that gives you children of your temperament, of your style, it sorts out. This is the power that controls exactly if there’s a mango tree, you will get a mango, and nothing else. The total living work is done by this power. Either there is this power, or the power of man who has made an atomic bomb, because he has tried to separate something that was done by this power. Even the destruction power that is assimilated there is the anger of this power. Man can only transform matter, which is dead. He cannot do any living work.

This is the Divine power, which is the Holy Ghost; we start feeling on our fingers, as cool breeze. Is described in the Bible and described in many books, specially by Adi Shankaracharya, he’s called them as Saundarya Lahari, “The waves of beauty”. The first thing is to feel that. Like you come in a dark room, you just put on the light, and then you verify everything, and see for yourself. It is very easy to say what is there in this cool breeze feeling. Have you felt it before? What is this? How it works? How it helps you? How you become the master of it, is the knowledge you have to have.

In this short time, I’m sorry, I won’t be able to elaborately tell you all about these centres and all these, how to awaken them, and what happens, because the time is rather short. In London, I must have given about six, seven hundred lectures, and everywhere in the whole world, I don’t know how many lectures. When you get established in Sahaja Yoga, when you become absolutely master of this Divine power, as there are many now we have imported from outside France, then alone, you will be given all the further knowledge about it. That is first to be judged how far you are capable of handling this Divine power. But it works out in a very simple way.

For today we have two little children who are born realised. One is, I think about three years, two years, isn’t she, Olympia? “One and three quarters.” One and three quarters, and another is – how much is she? About eight years or so. And the one who is not even talking, shows the finger which is burning, to denote the different centres by putting in the mouth. There are many children who are born like that in every country today. But how will you understand even those children, if you haven’t got your Realisation?

So, this time is the most important time and all human beings, all those who want their Realisation, should take it. And the rest of the people, who do not want to have it, can have their own way, and then I’m not responsible. John’s revelation, he has limited it so much. He says only 1,044,000, no, 144,000 people are going to be realised. Imagine what a limited number it is! Better enlist yourself fast! I hope today it will work out with all those who are here, and you will feel very nice. But that does not mean that you should think now you have got Realisation, so you are now finished with it.

Like the other day in Rome, one journalist came, and he felt. He said, “I’ve never expected this, I’m fantastically good, and all that, and vibrations I’m feeling, cool breeze I’m feeling” and then he never appeared on the scene. And he said that, “I’m enjoying my self-realisation.” It is very selfish, I think. Just to enjoy for yourself. Imagine the light enjoying its own light, and giving no light to others. Why to give enlightenment to any such selfish personality? He will lose all his vibrations, I can assure you, and then he’ll come back to Me, after one year, and say, “Mother, I’ve got a headache here, and my foot is like this, and I met with an accident …” And those who were with him, now will go too far, and maybe giving Realisation to so many people.

God has no interest in such wasters. Do you repair the lights which are never going to give light? God is the source of all the common sense, and He’s not going to do something to waste His energy on people who have no value for their own lives. So, I tell you again, that you are important, very important creation of God as a human being. And in His compassion and love, He has decided to give you this emancipation, so that you enter into the kingdom of God, and reside with His bliss. You are the most important than among all the evolved things, and the grace is absolutely openly flowing. You don’t have to confess anything, you don’t have to feel guilty, you don’t have to worry what you have done before, you don’t have to pay, or jump, or do any mental or physical exercise, it works out.

But the transition from working it out and developing into its full scale is a dangerous place. Like a bird which halfway comes out of the egg, and still is sticking on to everything that is dirty in the egg. Here, one has to fearlessly, completely thrash out all that is misidentification, and spread the wings into this new freedom. With complete confidence and understanding that your Creator is the Almighty, and that you are in His domain, and that He loves you.

May God bless you!

If you have any questions, I would like to answer. … It’s just a real comfortable seat. Grégoire, just listen. Why don’t you come here? You come here Grégoire. You come…no you come! No, you have to come because you’ll translate to Me, because I won’t understand.

Grégoire: He has received an initiation, and he would like to know whether he can receive an initiation from you, and if one can have two gurus at the same time.

Shri Mataji: Excuse Me. If you have really received the real initiation, you don’t need another one. That’s a very good thing, I would like to go and meet your guru if you are really realised. But supposing, if you have been to a wrong one, I’ll have to really work very hard on you, I must say. Because supposing a train that is derailed, has to be brought back to the … And if you want to believe still in the same guru, if he’s wrong? If he’s good…very well and good… If he’s wrong, and you want to continue, then I cannot pull you out, because, you see …

For example, a person who knows how to swim, I don’t have to bother; he’ll come on the shore. If he does not know how to swim, also is easier to pull him in the boat. But some crocodile is holding his foot, and he’s still wanting to have his foot in the mouth of the crocodile, then what am I to do? Then you have to give up the crocodile, because you can’t see the crocodile, but I see the crocodile. And if I say you are the … that he is a crocodile, you may get angry with Me. But I’m only afraid that after some time you’ll find sitting in his stomach. That’s why despite even if you get angry, I’ll have to tell you that this is not a correct guru. If he’s a correct guru, I would love to go and meet him, I would be very happy.

Everybody who calls himself a guru, is … I think … not a guru at all. I’ve known people who have been to gurus, who have been got … head of the academies and all that of these gurus, are falling on the street with epilepsy. So, we can’t have darkness and light together. Because, I’m not a guru, I’m your Mother. Actually, I want you to be your own guru. But if you have a nice good guru, who has given you initiation, in the sense that he’s awakened your Kundalini, it makes My life easier.

That we’ll know in one minute, even a child can say. You see, some of these gurus can give you blisters. All, most of the cancer patients, are initiated by some sort of a thing like this, like black magic, or gurus, or ESP’s, or what you call them, mesmerism. ESP is extra-sensory-perceptions. You see, all this mesmerism, and also what you call hypnosis, even hypnosis, even psychologist is unauthorised, it is all unauthorised behviour. All these psychologists really need a psychologist like Me to cure them. I’ve been curing so many psychologists Myself.

One of them is Grégoire’s friend who is a first class, first of Oxford University and Cambridge University, a Mr. Rustum. “Jungian” too … now he’s all right. He’s not “Freudian.” “Freudians” are more difficult.

Now, any other question?
For translation, tell him to say two sentences, and then you can translate. It’s like a lecture, not a question. All right? Uh.Ya! Decca.

First of all… [the name of the person not clear]

Grégoire: He’s very happy that you are against the fake gurus, and he thank you for this. And number two, I mean the main question is: he does not believe in human freedom, because he says we are not free to be born when you want, and to die when we want, and to have accidents when we want, and these kind of things.

Shri Mataji: I’m talking of that freedom only, I believe in it, and you can have it also, [INAUDIBLE, MAYBE then would be how?]

I’ll give you an example: there was a lady, you see, there was a lady, this Algerian, was told she was going to die in one week’s time, doctors said, everybody said … And she is not only living, she’s not only living, but she’s doing very well now, she’s with her children and everything.

Why, our president of India, who came to London airport, and they told that he’s going to die, they had prepared for his funeral and everything in India. And I met him at the airport; you know that, in ten minutes he got cured, and he went there, he walked on, everybody started seeing whether if he was coming or his ghost was walking down, it was like that. And he’s still there, still there.

All right, then … about accidents, you see, this … so many accidents one and 1,001. But I’ll tell you one where the bus fell down, with the Chhaya pandit coming to see Me, about eighty feet, double rumbling, and it stood on it’s four wheels and the driver ran away with fear, you see, but somebody knew how to drive, and the key was in there. They started the thing and they came out, and not one person was hurt.

Actually, even if Sahaja Yogi wants to die, he cannot die. He’ll be looked after by angels. Is a fact. Tell him that, you see, all this could be a … stories to him, but all is a fact, and you see for yourself, if I say so, why not have it? It’s all free. He is honest because, at this point, you see Grégoire, he is honest because at this point what he says is true, because he’s not free. But I’m talking of something that has to happen to you, all right?

Question (unknown man): You said that you made a statement that there is a direct correlation between black magic and spiritualism, and cancer.

Shri Mataji: I’ve seen that.

Question (following): Are any statistics available on that statement?

Shri Mataji: Yes, you see, what happen, whenever I treat a patient of cancer, now I have treated … and all these people have treated. You see, what I find, there is a centre in us, which is, what we call the left Swadisthana. Is this centre, where we feel the heat here, on this one… Left Swadisthana is the, I didn’t talk to you about centres, you see. This yellow coloured one, left Swadisthana, you see on the left-hand side, comes to people who indulge into unauthorised subconscious areas, you see? Who deal with unauthorised subconscious areas, and invariably, every cancer patient who has come to Me, had the strongest of this centre catching. With others on the left, more on the left, always. So, that’s why doctors cannot cure it.

Grégoire: May I translate, Mother?

Shri Mataji: All right, say it, and further also, I will elaborate it, scientifically.

I’ll tell you the scientific explanation, all right? Now, about six months or eight months back I saw a film of cancer experts on cancer. About how far they have reached, you see? What I’ve been talking for so many years, now they are talking about it. Now what they have photographed are the elements or, you can say, the things, the proteins – they call it protein 52, protein 58, they give the names as usual, doctors give only names, you see…they don’t know what it is, so they call it protein 52, 58, something like that, and 59, and these proteins, they are photographed even, which looks very funny, in their photographic thing. And they have seen that these things come and attack and trigger the cancer. And they come (they have said it, very clearly, all of them) they come from the area which is built within us since our creation. So, it is from the collective subconscious. Now when you people do spiritualism, or these wrong gurus, and fake gurus and all these people, what they do is, that, they somehow or other take you to your collective subconscious, where there are all that is dead. And there are viruses, means dead plants, and dead animals and dead human beings. Mostly these gurus use dead spirits. Even the mesmerism and ESP, all is that. Of course, some of the gurus put you also through your ego, pampering on the right-hand side, into supraconscious, on the right-hand side into collective supraconscious, and you develop other diseases because of that collective supraconscious. Like Hitler, would be there waiting for anybody to jump into, if you go to collective supraconscious. So, it could be both ways, but mostly, a cancer is left-sided. It may start with the movement towards supraconscious, you may move to supraconscious, but as a momentum, you see, you might as a swing, go to the left too much, you see?

So, it is an oscillation, but when that, it is settled, I mean when it is triggered, it is the left, of that I’m sure. But, you will see yourself, once you get Realisation you will immediately see. All this will be your own knowledge. Say, a person has cancer, say, of say. Vishuddhi, of throat. Now, he must have right Vishuddhi, left Vishuddhi, and … special … This one.

Now, this left Vishuddhi, is coming from feeling guilty. It’s very dangerous to feel guilty. Is absurd. What guilt can you have? It is the ocean of love. Unnecessarily you are just imagining, like little children. All right, are you satisfied, now?

Man: No.

Shri Mataji: Why? Because, no, you are not, no, no, no…I agree, you won’t be satisfied, because you are not yet realised. Once you are realised, this is a thing to be experimented and seen, isn’t it? Supposing I’m telling you the truth, and the laws of Divine, you have to enter into that realm, and see yourself, isn’t it? Like a scientist.

Man: I can accept that, but I still didn’t get an answer to my question.

Grégoire: But may I just say, that we …there are some doctors in Sahaja Yoga, one of them is here, and they have started …He was asking about statistics …so simply statistics …

Shri Mataji: Ah! Ah.Ah.Ah…Yeah…yeah…

Grégoire: The answer of Mataji has gone more away of your question, but they are now working out some basic data, but it’s a process which has just started, so we cannot provide you statistics as such.

Shri Mataji: Statistics, …Yeah…yeah…yeah… But I, one thing I will tell you, Grégoire. You see, it’s a headache, you know, to keep statistics. We are not going to do that, I’m telling you. I’m fed up, you see, we don’t want to keep files of this, why should we? You see like… I’ll tell you, I went to this Medical College, because I’ve cured people now, and I cured the President, so they have to ask Me, how I did it, isn’t it? He understands?

And I told doctors all about sympathetic, parasympathetic, and everything, and they asked Me … for … then they sent Me …”How many people you have cured, and give their names, and this and that …” I said, “I do not know how to keep files. And it is disgraceful. That you give somebody out of your love and you record it, it’s disgraceful, isn’t it?”

And for what to do? For why? Because, we are not here like doctors, mercenary …

No, we are not here to cure people. We are here to give you Realisation, but as a by-product people get cured. But we are not interested in curing people as patients in the hospital, not at all. Because what’s the use of curing these useless people [INAUDIBLE but G’s translation indicated “if you cure these people, they are not interested in their spiritual Realisation.”]
There are most of them are useless people, I tell you.

There was one [INAUDIBLE] who met Me in that [INAUDIBLE] 6,000 people out of that got hold of Me, because he had angina. I said, “Well, all right, I am going away now to Pune, he came to … he was living in Pune, a very rich man and all that. I cured his angina. He got at least 26 people to Me. Then I cured all of them, then again they brought 20 each … and I was just exhausted for nothing at all. So I told him, “Have you got any friend who is able-bodied, or are all of them like this?” So then he said, he arranged a very great program in Pune and he gave Realisation to many people [INAUDIBLE]. So I told all these people there were, you yourself may get Realisation, become masters and doctors and cure your relations – why bother Me? I do not want to take any credit or discredit of that. I just want that you get all the knowledge and you do it yourself. Every time it happens, you see, one to 500 – I decide I will not take anyone, but again something happens, they catch hold of Me, again you see this starts. Because I feel now that the person has suffered, but the person has no consideration at all. I cure him, he gathers the old people, 14 people will fly out to, say, London, to get cured. That’s what it is. They won’t come for Realisation. What’s the use having all such healthy people, so-called, if they are good-for-nothing for Sahaja Yoga, for God?

At least you should never say you’ve been cured, because I’ve seen doctors might get after your life. Better let them cook their own stew. But when the doctors have failed, they come to Me! [INAUDIBLE] sitting down there. He had the same left-Swadisthana problem. He will tell you. So why go to that extent, you better have it, now why worry about everybody else? Tomorrow you can talk to doctors. Yes, you can please them. You can become knowledge. All right?

May God bless you!

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi