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Talk to sahaja yogis. Brighton (UK), 12 May 1982.
And first you have this background, that they are seekers, they are misled, they are your brothers and sisters, and they are been really taken into the clutches of negativity. You have to move very, very carefully about it, very carefully. First of all they must feel your love and concern. That is very important. So instead losing temper with them or getting angry with them you should really have compassion, because they are so unfortunate. They are so unfortunate. Those who are not coming to Sahaja Yoga and are going the wrong way; are so unfortunate people, they are lost people. Whatever they may say, but they are lost, and you know that. They are lost people. And with this myth that they are living, they are going towards hell, actually. And they have lost all chances for Realization if they don’t understand Sahaja Yoga, see? You have to talk to them like that, that, “How do you recognize him as your guru? What has he done for you? What powers has he given you? You can be your own guru”.
Don’t start talking about Me, first of all. No, not much. You should say, “She does nothing. She just makes us our own guru, and we know what is our problem is, we know your problem. You can work it out. That’s not difficult. But after all, if you are seekers, what have you found out so far?” I mean, if you… there’s somebody who has been guiding, you must see what he has done to others. They might talk, they might say, “Oh, we have found the way, we have done…” But what way? One thing one must ask: “What have we got in our own awareness, in human awareness, what have we got?” “What have we achieved?” And that is how you will know because, you see, you are not manifesting your own powers. You may be talking what guru says, what is written in that book. Anybody can do it , what’s so great? You are not manifesting your powers at all. You have no powers of any kind, you are weak people. It’s just a mass nonsense going on that people just follow somebody and another one follows, another one follows, but one doesn’t see that what’s happening is everybody is [earning]. See, one doesn’t want to wait and see, “Where are we?”. “What are our moorings?” You see. you must find out. We must find them out ourselves. And you say you are feeling better; this may be ego pampering. That’s not the thing.
What has happened to your awareness is the point. Can you judge others? Can you judge yourself on absolute points? If you are at absolute points, can you judge? And supposing you say you judge like this, are you sure that the other one will judge the same way? You see, when you put a direct question like this, then they will answer. You say, “You don’t try to deceive yourself we deceived ourselves in the same way.” If you start on this that, “We were like this, we were misled, we did all these mistakes”, then they’ll understand. Some of you should say that, “We went to drug side, you see, the left sided, into hypnosis. It was hypnosis first; we didn’t know it was hypnosis. We were hypnotized. We did not know, you see, we were so much enamored by their way, outward behavior and this and that, that we never understood that it was hypnosis.”
But logically also you must understand, that if we have organized ourselves as something, are we really meaning it or it is another artificial thing, just like a church or just like any other, other organization? It’s not God’s organization. If so, do you understand? And then with Sahaja Yoga you should say that, “We can feel your Kundalini, we can feel our Kundalini, we know our chakras, we know your chakras; we can feel it. Even the children can feel it if they are realized souls. We speak the same language, we raise the Kundalini of others, by which we have cured people of cancer, of many diseases, mental diseases, emotional diseases. Can you do it?” You should say: “You have no knowledge of the technique of God”. Technique of Divine is different from our technique. Just by sitting, standing, jumping, shouting, that’s not a technique. The technique is that you should know where we are moving.
Then you can say about right sided people also that you say, “We are God world government and an incarnation is born.” “Where is he? He is dead now. Who are you? Nothing, except that you have little money with you. There are many people who have money… But organizing dead is not the way to organize. You are deceiving yourself, by this kind of a nonsensical talk. This is all nonsensical, is all written down, in the Scriptures. If you know how to read the Scriptures, you can just interpret it and put it whatever you like and if you know how assert and talk, you can write many books. It’s nothing great. But can you read your own book? Can you feel your own chakras? Can you read another person’s chakras? That’s the main thing. You should say, “Our guru doesn’t want any money. She is not even a guru, She is a Mother. She is so affectionate. She doesn’t take any money, She doesn’t do anything. On the contrary, as Bala has said, She gives us presents, She looks after us.”
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, I was talking to one gentleman. He is not Sahaja Yogi, but he is very well known in the Brighton area, and I said to him, “How do you see Sahaja Yoga and how do other people who heard of Sahaja Yoga feel about it?” And it seems that we’re still staying as being… we are not very well known and people still see us as a cult, Mother, because, with all respect, Mother, when, when they see a picture of somebody with a name, immediately the response is, “It’s just another organization, it’s a cult.”
Shri Mataji: Why? I mean My photo, this picture doesn’t look like that, does it?
Sahaja Yogi: No, Ma.
Shri Mataji: You should put this picture on. I mean, you see, there is a difference, you must talk to them, “It’s not a cult, because we have no organization, we have no membership, we don’t pay anything firstly. Then we, we all are people who are aware of a new dimension in our awareness. Even small children come. We know, they know. There is… cult is a thing which creates fanaticism. We have no fanaticism. We are open to all. All can come.” They have to take their Realization, is the main point is. You see, our all attitude is absolutely subtle, and we should say very, very… spiritual, because we say, “You must get your Realization”. We don’t say, “You must pay so much money”, you see? “You must get your Realization”. “Secondly, you see, you people talk of making sort of big funds and things for the group”. All right? “But, we, we want the becoming. We want what becomes of you, that’s important. What becomes a person, what becomes of others, becoming. So it’s a living thing. And living things cannot be cults, you see? It’s a living thing. What we want, you should get a new awareness in which you should grow, and you should become effective, you see? It’s not well known because we are not a cult. That’s the main reason.”
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, these, these are gross people and… they, the general feeling amongst them is that if it’s Indian it’s got to be a cult.
Shri Mataji: Who?
Sahaja Yogi: Because it’s Indian, you see? Because You, because You, You took Your birth in India..
Shri Mataji: No, no.
Sahaja Yogi: They’re seeing around this…
Shri Mataji: What about the cults they are having in America and all over?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, well, they see the Maharishi and they see the orange guy and they just think: “Oh, it’s just another one!”
Shri Mataji: You see, you must talk about India.
Sahaja Yogi: It’s just the way they think.
Shri Mataji: That India is the place which has the roots and we are the shoots, no doubt about it.
Sahaja Yogi: They don’t understand at what lever they are.
Shri Mataji: Yes, it is true. India is not all cult, is not all cult. There are real people and there are unreal people. And the unreal people are in the market. Mataji is not in the market, She is a temple in the market. This is the difference. She is not in the market, She is selling nothing, you see? But, She, the temple had to be established in the market because in the market people were looking in the name of God. So She’s the only guru who has come, who is a real person, who is a realized person, who is not a cult person, but has come to the market and is the temple, which is a more difficult thing. And you can say, “We have seen, actually with our own eyes the Kundalini rising. We have seen people being cured of Sahaja Yoga, getting out of the hospitals, how are we not to believe in?” By Sahaja Yogis! Christine has cured one blood cancer now. They are very confident. Not that only I have cured, but Christine has cured now, Christine and… What’s his name, another one? They have cured it, so you cannot just say… Herman. But you can also cure. “So this is not a cult. Our health has improved. We have given up all old habits, alcoholism automatically; we are saving money, about every way we are better off. In the cult this doesn’t happen, only you start behaving in a funny manner, everybody is becoming strange. We are very normal people, we are not strange. On the contrary we have drop out all our strangeness. Cult is a strange thing.” But if you walk anywhere you will not be called strange at all, on the contrary, you’ll be called very healthy and happy people.
We went to one, one shop in Italy. The lady of a very big shop, you see? As soon as she saw, she said, “Ha, ha, come along.” Yes, she did not know what was happening to her. “Ha, is coming. Oh, come along.. I am very happy. Come along.” She didn’t know what has happening to her, you see, the way she was expressing herself, so funny. And then, in France this happened, and then we went to another shop. They said, “You people look so very happy, very happy, relaxed people. So who are you?” And one man who saw Me at the airport, you see, he was from Congo, and he just followed Me. There were three, four others who followed Me, and they came to the airport. And we were sitting at the airport and he asked them – he is from the Ministry of Industries from Congo – and he asked, “Who is this lady?” “She looks so serene and you people look so happy, what is all this going on?” And now, then he went to the ashram; now he is going to take it to Congo. So you must say, “Either you are seekers or you are not. If you are, you must seek it, as we have sought. We went through all these nonsensical things. We have just to come to tell you because you should not be lost.” Yes.
Sahaja Yogi: I still see divine light before [the whole thing], Mother, and I was talking to them about what You keep on saying about the experiences…
Shri Mataji: I can’t hear.
Sahaja Yogi: I was talking to them tonight. I’m trying to sort of getting them to come to the Pavilion night…
Sahaja Yogi: Speak of [British], Mother.
Sahaja Yogi: I was supposed to expose the meeting, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Yes, I know.
Sahaja Yogi: And they said something like “Oh well, we’ve heard all these stories about how, you know, people have blockages in their chakras and they start to shake and that. How do you know what’s happening in all this sort of thing?” Could You give us some sort of good, rational counterarguments against that? Because they are so obviously into their guru that they think that theirs is right and if you feel pains in the chakras they said is because you’re all blocked and not them, you know?
Shri Mataji: It’s very simple. You give yourself a bandhan and you can discriminate. If you just give yourself a bandhan then you can discriminate.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, but to that, to satisfy their minds, you know…
Shri Mataji: No, it should be clear-cut to you also, isn’t it? So, if you give yourself a bandhan, you can make it out.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: You can go and talk to them. You should say, “In any case, you come and listen to Mother; She’ll tell you if you have any problem. We may be not so good as yet, maybe. But we definitely feel. We have to still learn because we have to become and know all the technique.” So, that’s what you should accept a situation – may be that we do not know. Just you give yourself a bandhan and you’ll know. And afterwards you don’t have to do that also, immediately you know what is yours and what is theirs. Why are you not going and talk to them? You take one or two people from here, again. So Bob and London people can go, senior people can go and say. Oh, but none of them have come here from… Gavin, all these people, anybody. You can go and talk, all of you are quite senior that way. You can tell them that you can put yourself into chakras, you can fell it. All right? If there are three, four people then if one is too much, you see, because they are negative people. So they try to, sort of put you down. But if there is one person is like that, another person can stand up and say, “This is this.” Another can say, “This is this.” That’s how. But there should be no quarreling among Sahaja Yogis there. That’s important. Otherwise it would be ridiculous. But that’s how it will be, that you can make out.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, You also focus in Your attention on the front person, aren’t You? By putting the attention, and then if you catch…
Shri Mataji: Yes, that’s wrong. My attention is there on Brighton, no doubt, but what I’m saying that, you see, you are the channels now. You have to do the job. You see, I am the source but you have to be the channels. Channels have to be all right. Say for example, look at this, This is what you [use]. Is your great Brighton. Hmm, now better. Better now? It’s all right? How is it? And when they ask you such questions also, you should say, “But you can’t even say those blocks, anything; you cannot see anything.” You should say, “You have not even seen with your naked eyes the Kundalini rising, nothing. We have seen it”. At least you see you are progressing. “Maybe the knowledge may not be complete, but we are seeing that. It’s actualization, is not just talking, you know?” If you take three, four people is always better in an argument. You should say, “Look, you want to achieve it or not? You don’t have to pay anything. Nothing to be surrendered, nothing. Just you have to come and see for yourself. After all, what is She going to gain out of you? We have to gain out of Her. So why not?” Better. You have to tell them about the concern that you have. You should say that, “You are not going to get it. That’s not the way. You are not manifesting any of your powers.” If we are, technically all right, – one person can be all right, technically, who understands the technique, the divine technique – another who can argue it out, another one who can talk about other gurus, and things like that, three, four people. You must all have a proper training center, I think for this. Sit down, talk, talk, find out how to propagate, how to talk. All these things you have to do.
You see, like Warren has done that and it has worked out wonders. But you see, Warren himself got into it too much and he really learned it. Just gone into it, find out what is what, what is what, what is what. That’s how he can do it much better. Got all Sahaja yoga books, this, that, everything. And worked it out, found out this, that, every kind of a combination and these things. And then also, when you start doing that, you get the knowledge. The Advent, our Gregoire has written, and I asked him, “How did you get all these quotations?” He said, “I just got it. When I was writing, they just came to me either I read it in the book or in a newspaper, suddenly at that moment only I got it.” So that’s how the knowledge comes to you. Like today only I bought a nightdress for [Shonu] or something, so Rustom said,” Mother, you never wear”. I said, “No, I don’t. I wear sari.” He said, “I know because the Devi is not supposed to sleep in the nightdress”. Devi, you see? Twenty four hours I am on duty. When should I undress Myself? It’s correct. He told Me this, that, “How can a Goddess be undressed in the night? Because She has no night and She has no day.” The way he has studied it is really remarkable, you see? The way he has studied all the names of the Goddess, the meanings and all that, you see. gives you such tremendous strength, and the identification with that. He said, “How can the Goddess retire? She has no retirement. When She sleeps, She’s working harder, still.” Is a fact. And all this understanding comes by identifying yourself with the Creator. Because superficially it looks odd that I should sleep in a sari on, you see.
But if you fix one point, that whatever Mother does is a divine thing, then everything starts revealing to you, why She does it. Now this thing like Coca Cola. I, I, first I never used to take it. Now, there’s something gone better out of it, something has been removed from that Coca Cola, which was wrong there, now it can take [in]. Never used to drink any Coca Cola. In small things, in big things, you can see today you see, at one point only I said, “I think you are going in a wrong direction.” On one point only I said. Of course I told him by what way to go and all that. But just one, and that was the point he made a mistake. Many things I have to do. I have to manage this big stuff, you know? It’s a very difficult task. To be a human being is the most difficult task I see. But I am managing it quite all right and you should use that. You should use that to camuflage Me, in the beginning; very much. You should say, “Just like Christ, She is absolutely human. She drinks tea, She sits with us, She talks to us. It’s nothing like that, and we know what we are doing, every word. In only a cult you become fanatic and you don’t know what you are doing. It’s not like that. We know everything. We know how people are mesmerized. We know what chakras are… We know everything about you. Cult is ignorance, this is knowledge.” “And we don’t want you to be unfortunate people”. We don’t want you to reign yourself in complete terror and… to be under the reign of terror and agony and frustration…
You should ask the people who were there for twelve years, thirteen years, all these movements, “Where are they?” “What has happened?” They are only in Sahaja Yoga. Most of those senior people of all these gurus are in Sahaja Yoga. Charismatic movement. You should have seen the charismatic, bapre [oh, my God – Hindi]. The fellow went into… You were not there.
Sahaja Yogi: I don’t know.
Shri Mataji: In France, they went into a big… we’ve never seen such an epilepsy. For how much time, do you know?
Sahaja Yogi: Long.
Sahaja Yogi: More than half of an hour I think.
Shri Mataji: At least half an hour.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Sahaja Yogi: It’s crying, and sick and everything.
Shri Mataji: And apart from that the whole body was shaking.
Sahaja Yogi: In total convulsions.
Shri Mataji: And he got cured. I just yield to him, “You get up now.”
Hello. Is Jason here? Yes. Oh, good. Hello, Jeremy. How are you? Good? Daisies and daisies, these days. Just see. I’ve never seen a daisy like this before.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, can you take?
Shri Mataji: What a color! And here the Sahastrara is very strong, do you see that?
Sahaja Yogi: Beautiful is that. And daisies are very fragrant these days, very fragrant.
Child: Nanny’s (Grandma – Hindi) name is Daisy.
Shri Mataji: Hmm, that’s why. They all know. The daisies have the greatest variety now, I think. I’m going to see in the… I don’t know, when are they going to have that… Chelsea Flower Show. Next week? Next month? A week or I don’t know when?
Sahaja Yogi: It’s in May.
Sahaja Yogi: Very soon.
Sahaja Yogi: Very soon, Mother. This month.
Shri Mataji: They were building up all these things, today we saw. But maybe next week, maybe. You should say, “These arguments have no meaning, doesn’t give you any strength. Don’t be misled. It’s not good. You see, you can brand anybody as cult, but what you will get out of it, you see? There is no money, there is no organization, there is no membership. How can it be a cult? And we are very normal people. We are not strange. First thing is they should be strange people doing something strange. We don’t do anything strange.” They might say that you move your hands and things. You should say that, “When the power starts flowing from our hand, we have to use our hands; we can feel the power flowing”. All right? When did you go? To see whom?
Sahaja Yogi: If I [might], I just saw them, I didn’t go to see them. It just has happen to see them. I didn’t go to see them, Mother. They just happened to be there, at the time I’ve just… was passing, at the same time as they were. So we got into sort of natural talk, you know.
Shri Mataji: You go, go and talk to that fellow, who is he? Malone or whatever it is. What is his name?
Sahaja Yogi: I’ve been working on him, Mother. Talking with him a few times. His name, his name is John Noyce, Mother. His name is John Noyce, Mother. And…
Shri Mataji: Let him, let Phil and all these people go and see him.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes
Shri Mataji: Good idea. Nick is there, anyone who is normal. Take three, four people and you talk.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Danny is there. Now, anyone. And need not be people from say, from Brighton. If you are from the same place nobody has any respect for you. You should take people from… These are all human psychologies. You must work it out. I think I should sleep now, 11:30. All right? [Hindi/Marathi] You see, if you have the caliber you’ll get through, you’ll see. Not the heart. If you say that, you’ll hurt them. But it’s a caliber, you see. “That’s true, but one has to have that caliber, of a seeking. If you are superficial seekers, then it’s rather difficult I think, it’s better… But if you are deeply seeking, than it works out, no doubt. We have seen that.” You cannot say you, but you should say, “We have seen some people, you see, who are very superficial type. They really do not stick on. They just get out. But we have some people of very high caliber. They just come into it and they have the pattern, they just fit into it like that. It’s a fact. We are not telling lies, you see?” But this will put up their challenges and they will be better off. All right, so if you don’t mind… I wanted to have a bath; now I’ll have it tomorrow morning. I was saying that tomorrow morning these children would like to go to the children’s this thing or something? You liked it?
Sahaja Yogi: Very good, Mother.
Shri Mataji: I told her. She, she took so much interest in Me, suddenly. We were on the same table, she was just facing Me and there were other eight people all together, small table. But she took so much interest in Me, I don’t know why. She asked Me several questions, different, different, so many questions she asked Me. And one of them was… She asked… I told her we were very happy, Indians were very happy when you said nice things about the Indians settled here. “Oh, I mean it, I mean it. They’re very spiritual endowed people, you see. How we live our life – we have made a mess of our lives – they are sensible, their children are educated, they are very solid people and they have, they have lot of, they have given a lot of contribution to the growth of this country”, she said. So she said, “How do they manage this spiritual side, you know?” I said, “It’s like a, your developing is that of the shoot I think, and we are on the root’s side perhaps”. “Oh, must be that.” And then she has asked another question to them, “I’ve seen people who are academically very good, you know. They, I don’t know, they get western sometimes. I don’t know what happens to them. They are very good as individuals, they do very well. They’re individualistic but what happens to them later on, I don’t know in life. So she asked them, “They say, there is somebody saying… ”