Kundalini is like a primule coming out of a seed

Madrid, Embassy of India (Spain)

1982-06-01 Public Program At Indian Embassy NITL HD, 72'
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Public Program, 1982, June 1st – Indian Embassy in Madrid, Part 1

Now this power lies within us, it’s called as Kundalini. She lies in the triangular bone. Now look at that, this bone is even in English called, in the medical terminology, as “sacrum”. And “sacrum” means sacred, that is, in Greece people knew about it.

When I went to Greece with my husband I was really amazed because they took me to this Delphi and also to the Temple of the Primordial Mother. And the Primordial Mother was called as “Athina” while “Ata” in Sanskrit means “the primordial”, just imagine. They have so much Sanskrit. And she had this Kundalini in her hand, like this, with all the chakras. I went to Delphi and there I saw, they said, “This is the centre, the navel of the universe.” I’ve told them much before that Europe is the navel, navel chakra of the universe. And there they said, “This is what is, has been, since long.” I said, “Really?” And I found that the cool breeze was coming out and the vibrations were there. But just I tell now. I saw a little statue of Shri Ganesha because it has got tremendous vibrations. So I asked the lady who was interpreting, I said, “What do we find here?” – “Nothing, it is a little elephant sitting down there.” Imagine, since long it has been there. Then I wanted to find out how did they know about these things which we had known a long time back. They said, “We had an Indo-Arian rapport, Indo-Arian rapport. And in that Indo-Arian rapport they told us, that we have, we used to believe only one Mother but they told us, ‘No, it’s they, mother, it is three forms.’” And the three forms that we believe in Mahakali, Mahasaraswati and Mahalakshmi, they are there. Just imagine, how much they knew? And that afterwards, you see, they got lost, went onto the right side, finding of the devas and this and that.

Now within us, this Kundalini lies and she has to ascend. She has to ascend and she does not ascent by any force, by any mucking, by anything, it is like a [UNCLEAR] coming out of a seed. And you cannot force onto it, it just germinates by itself. So this Kundalini has to raise, pass through all these various subtle centres, cross through here and that’s how you get… This is called as “Brahmarandhra” in Sanskrit, “fontanel bone area” in the medical terminology, where we have the “taalu”, where we have a soft bone. When it pierces through then you really start feeling the Cool Breeze, the “Chaitanya Lahiri” as described by Adi Shankaracharya. But you’ll be amazed in the Bible – it’s all described. They call it the “Tree of Life”. They said… And last year before you I’ve done all these, and these are the chakras, they actually look like that.

Then Christ has said, “Your hands will speak.” When he has described the Age of Resurrection, which is now, he says, “Your hands will speak.” When the Kundalini rises and she comes out of here, you touch your Spirit, because the seat of the Spirit is here though the Spirit resides in your heart. And you start feeling that power flowing through you. That power is nothing but the All-pervading power of God which has been given to you. Brahman, the Brahma itself which is all over. Adi Shankaracharya has said that Brahma is [UNCLEAR, Hindi]. And it is a fact.

All the living works, say for example the beautiful trees you see, the transformation of a flower into a fruit, any living work – say, even we becoming human beings, all this is done by that Brahma. And for the first time, as soon as you become one with the Spirit, you start feeling it. It is such a remarkable happening within us that some people just even don’t feel it, don’t even feel it. Suddenly they just start feeling the Cool Breeze coming out. But as a result of that, not only that you become collectively conscious but physically you get alright. Because it’s a vital force, it starts flowing through you. And that vital force corrects so many diseases, like cancer now. You’ll be surprised, cancer can only be cured by Spirit.

Now I don’t cure nowadays, my disciples do. Recently, very recently a boy called Rahul who was in New York and his father came to see me in a village near Rahuri. I told him to telephone to one of the Sahaja yoginis in New York. She cured him. He was blood cancer, they’ve said, “You’ll die at the most in one month’s time. You should go back.” And he got completely cured, he came down to see me in London and now he’s got well. Another Nigerian lady, very recently I’m telling, I’ve been able to cure many other people but this Nigerian, she is a Muslim, and she used Sahaja Yoga method, she got cured of blood cancer. She is back and I [UNCLEAR].

It is all remarkably working, you’ll be amazed. We are not awakening to it. Indians are… which is so…., they are awakened to something better. They are too good, I think, all of them are, that they do not open their eyes to it. But even say, from Nigeria, recently I had forty people who flew out, just to see me and to get their Realization. They’re so anxious to get their Realization while we are not, we are not. I don’t know why. Because it is… [Shri Mataji recites a shloka in Sanskrit, min 20:55]. If you have something all the time [you don’t value it], like the people living in Prayag take their bath in the well and not in the Ganges, the Ganges is flowing all the time, it’s something like that. But this is what one has to [UNCLEAR].

Now I will tell you how cancer is cured, it’s very simple. It’s so simple you’ll be amazed how cancer is cured. Just like the [UNCLEAR], very simple. Because the power is so great that if you touch a person cancer can be cured. It’s very simple. And the simplest thing is that, that it is living; whatever is living is spontaneous. For example, our breathing is so very simple. If you have to read books for that or stand, or hang, or have a guru and pay for it, how many of us would have gained it? It’s a living process.

Now, we have within ourselves three powers. Of course, we have our own names in Sanskrit, but we can say in English also, we can translate them and tell you. On the left-hand side, we have a power called as “Iccha shakti” in Sanskrit but we can say the “Power of desire” by which we desire. And on the right-hand side, we have got another power called the “Power of action” – “Kriya shakti”. When you desire something you want to act. But Power of Desire is not manifested unless and until you act. You can say in a car, as you have got a break and you have got an accelerator, so we have two powers. Now you are learning driving. You are given complete freedom to learn driving at this state as a human being. You are trying to learn, sometimes you go to the left, something you go to the right, sometimes you make this mistake, sometimes you make that mistake. Thank God, our country has so many traditions that we mostly keep to the centre. We just do not rush into one thing or to the other. Thank God for that, that’s the blessings of our country – that we really keep to centre. But we just keep to the centre and we don’t rise above, that’s the problem. Now, the third power is within us, it’s the power through which we have evolved. We have evolved up to human state through that power. And now only one breakthrough is needed: where this power should take us to that point where we become the Spirit because Spirit is the Collectivity.

Now as you said my husband is one of the heads of the UN things and all that, but what I find, in his office also, that they talk of universality all the time. See, they talk that we are all universal beings and we are all brothers and sisters, and this and that. But I don’t find it exists, it does not exist. You see, it’s everybody’s cause, an artificial. They have to go on saying all the time, it’s brainwashing, “we are all brothers and sisters”, and all that. But in the UN system also I find it is not true. The UN system has come to us from the unconscious and we have thought of this, we have thought of building up this universal thing. But it is not, it is artificial, it is not real. It becomes only real…

[Shri Mataji speaks aside, probably to a child] Come along, come along, come here. Just come, come. Good. Sit down, sit down, sit down. Good. Do you want to have coca-cola? Alright, have it. Take it.

Now, this universal being is actually within us. It is within us. But when you touch it, when your consciousness touches it, the light of that universal being starts coming inside us. And when that light gets within us we get enlightened. Enlightened doesn’t mean you see light, the light you can see always. But through enlightenment you can see, you can feel your own centres and you can feel the centres of others. You can correct your centres, you can cure yourself and you can cure others.

For example, Kabir has very clearly said about this. I mean, for that we don’t have to go too far to know, just Kabir, who spoke and wrote in Hindi language, very special think about Sahaja Yoga. First, he says, “Sahaja samadhi [UNCLEAR, Hindi]. Guru Nanaka also has described about Sahaja Yoga. But they used to… You see, they had arrived at a point and others had not arrived. So whatever they spoke was never taken very seriously. Especially the Hindi people didn’t like Kabir very much, they criticize him, mostly, I should say, more scholarly type of people, calling him “sadhuk [UNCLEAR] and all sorts of things and they condemned him. But he talked of the Truth. You don’t have to have a very elaborate language for that, you don’t have to have a degree for that. It’s something so spontaneous he found, that there is “Sahaja samadhi [UNCLEAR, Hindi]. There is about Kundalini, that “Ida, Pingala, Sukhmana nadi”, he describes: there are three nadi – Ida, Pingala and Sukhmana. And then he said, [UNCLEAR Hindi, sounds like“Shunya hi hara para Anahata bhagini”], actually you feel the throbbing here. So he said, [UNCLEAR, Hindi], “you feel the Anahata, you feel the throbbing” and then it starts flowing through. But the best he has said is this: [UNCLEAR Hindi], that is, “I bring the love from my heart”. [UNCLEAR, Hindi] – “establish it”, establish it. “The love from my heart” because he was a realized soul, he was a realized soul of very high quality. He says, “From my heart, I get my love, establish it.” [UNCLEAR, Hindi] – “into five elements I put it”, just imagine. What a great thing to say that “My love that is in my heart, of my Spirit, I put it into five elements.” Then he says, [UNCLEAR, Hindi] – “I get 25 people to catch fall down.” [UNCLEAR, Hindi] – “I put them into one sutra, into one thread.” Look at that, how clearly he said it. How beautifully he said it. Dnyaneshwara has, of course, said it very clearly. In his sixth chapter, he has described actually the Kundalini itself, he described how the Kundalini is [UNCLEAR, Hindi], it’s very clear here written about the description of it. Everybody has talked about it and it is our own heritage. It’s the greatest heritage we have.

The world is not going to be alright. All political problems, all your so-called problems will remain as they are, they are not going to solve any problem whatsoever, take it from me. Because supposing now you say, “Capitalism is bad.” But I say I am the greatest capitalist because I have all the powers within myself. And I am the greatest communist because I cannot live without sharing. I have to share them, I have to share them. My husband has realized it, that this woman cannot live without sharing. So he permits me, he allows me, on the contrary, he helps me to go all out, to help people because he knows that this woman cannot live without sharing her joy. So he allows me. So whatever is your greatest capital, you have to share it. But it becomes, not a forced thing on me, it is just spontaneous. It’s the most joy-giving thing, this whole generosity is so joy-giving and so fulfilling that you just take automatically. You don’t have to tell yourself, “Now, you be generous, you have done this.” It just flows.

The other day she asked me, Kathleen asked me, that don’t I feel it’s too much to do for others. I said, “Who is the others? Who is the other?” I mean, if you are part and parcel of my body, I can feel you within my body, then who is the other whom am I feeling, whom am I obliging? I’m obliging myself. Actually even when, normally also, if somebody is getting drowned and you jump to save that person, actually at that time you do it to save yourself because you can’t just bear that, you can’t bear the death of that person, that’s why you jump in.

But here it becomes so spontaneous, so automatic that you don’t even think about it. And some people start thanking me but I don’t know why they’re thanking me, for what. It’s such joy, it’s just happening, it’s working. So it is so spontaneous and it is so overflowing that you don’t have to worry about it, but most of your family problems are solved. Now the best part of it, that Krishna has said, [UNCLEAR, Hindi, sounds like“Yoga kshma vahamya]. He has said that “I will give you yoga and kshema”, means well-being, your materials things are also solved. “Yoga”, when you get this union then your material well-being is also solved, according to Shri Krishna and it is a fact. Now it doesn’t mean that you become [UNCLEAR] or what but you become sufficiently looked after by God Almighty, believe me, it happens. He didn’t say “Kshema yoga” – we go to Krishna’s temple, we say, “Oh, Krishna, please give me this job, look after this, you must look after my daughter’s marriage” and all these things. But he said, “Yoga kshema vahamya” – “First you must get your yoga”. Once you get your yoga the kshema will come. You’ll be amazed at how things are working.

I’ll give you a very simple example which is unbelievable, the thousandth and one, but which is unbelievable for people. But if you can understand it, how Shri Krishna looks after. You have heard about Christ supplying the food to the thousands, it’s a fact, it is not untruth. You can see that in Sahaja Yoga when it happens you’ll be amazed. But I’ll give you an example of a lady in Australia. She wanted to come to India. For them coming to India is a pilgrimage, to Sahaja yogis there, coming to those villages when they can go and live among the mosquitoes, you know, and all the problems. It’s a big pilgrimage, they call that, and they come all the way from there and they wanted to come and she wanted to bring her daughter because she had no way to keep her somewhere. So she said, “Mother, please zero to me, Mother. I would love to come but my money is not sufficient to go to India and I don’t how to with my daughter, I’ll have to take her also.” She just wrote to me and she told me that after one or two days her daughter took of her trinkets, she had many trinkets in the house, for the sale, the jumble sale of the school. So the teachers saw it, “What do you mean by this? This is gold, real gold.” She said, “Gold, how can it be?” She said, “Yes, it is gold, better call your mother.” So they called the mother on the phone and the mother came down. And she said, “You go and see, this is real gold.” And she said, “When I sold it, it was exactly the same amount that was needed for our trip, exactly the same amount.”

Recently I received a letter from Vancouver, not from Vancouver, one lady had gone to Vancouver from Australia and she owed some money to two persons. And when she’s gone from Australia she said that “I was thinking, ‘Why should I own money? I’m a Sahaja yogini, I should not owe any money to anyone'”. And when she went back she received a letter from the income tax that “you have overpaid” and she got exactly the same amount. And the second time, again she got another letter that still more is left and she got exactly the same money she had to pay for the other person.

It is so interesting to see how God looks after you, every bit of it. There was another Sahaja yogini, her name is Chayapath. She is a Christian girl, she was coming to see me from Rahuri and she was rather delayed. So I was worried, I said, “Why she had not come?” She came and she had such a miracle took place: that she had an accident in which the bus fell down, twice it tumbled around and fell and stood on its four legs and nobody was hurt. So they said, “Who is the saint sitting?” You see villagers know. “Who is the saint sitting on this trip?” And she was wearing my ring, you see. And they know about me and they said, “Oh, this is the one who is sitting here and that’s why we are saved.” But there was the driver who had run away because he was so frightened of the whole [UNCLEAR] and there was one gentleman who knew how to drive a bus. He got up, and the key was there, he started and they came back. It has happened with so many people that they are absolutely safe in an accident. It’s something so surprising, “Yoga kshema vahamya.” Krishna never told lies and this is his [UNCLEAR] but first, you must get your yoga.

In the Gita also Krishna told at the very outset that you must get your Realization. Because what he told was that “you must know”. And knowing was only possible through your spiritual evolution, through your Self-realization, otherwise you cannon know. So he said, “You must know.” But then Arjuna asked him a question, “You are here saying you become a sakshi (witness) when you are saying ‘Go and have a war’. Now you are telling one story here and another story there.” So Krishna thought of it. And Krishna was the embodiment of divine diplomacy, divine diplomacy, very clever. He thought, “He won’t understand if I’m ambiguous, so better tell him from things by which he goes about this yoga in such a [UNCLEAR] way that it becomes action. The best diplomacy is that, that you put an absurd condition. If you have to be diplomatic then you must put an absurd situation which can never be achieved. If you give an absurd situation which cannot be achieved, then another person comes around to say, “this is absurd” so that he quits out. So the second thought, that now what to tell this Arjuna. So he said, “Alright. You do your karmas but put the karmas at the lotus feet of the Lord.” You just cannot do it, it’s absurd, how can you do it? Because there is a central [UNCLEAR,? being].

If you are doing something you know you’re doing it, you have not yet become the third person. Till you are realized you will never be in a position to leave everything at the lotus feet of the Lord. So this is an absurd condition. Then bhakti also is there. “Pushpam phalam toyam” – “Whatever you have got, fruits, these, that – you give it to me.” And what will you give? He used a very wonderful word there that… I’m forgetting the shloka that he said “ananya bhakti”. Ananya, ananya, me and not the other. Where is not the other?

[a person from the audience: UNCLEAR, Hindi shloka].

See, this is the shloka. That is ananya, till you become the “ananya” you cannot do bhakti. Ananya means you are realized. An-anya – when you are not the other.

When you are realized then only you can do bhakti. Ananya when you are not the other one. Then only you can do bhakti. This is another absurd thing. People go on saying, “Oh, we are giving pushpam, phalam, toyam to God”, but you are not connected with God. Yours are calling, “Rama, Rama, Rama”, where is he? You are not connected. You should be connected to Rama to call him. If you are not connected you are calling, maybe somebody with the name of Rama may enter into your link and may spoil it. That’s what these gurus are doing. What these gurus are doing – nothing but an enticement.

Because, beyond these two powers, on the left-hand side is collective subconscious and beyond the right side is the collective supraconscious. And if you go to the extreme, like this now you go on praying to God and breaking your neck before him and saying all kinds of things, “You have not done for me anything, I have done so much for you.” What can we do for God, normally? But we go on like this, it cursing God’s [UNCLEAR]. Under such circumstances, we may be driven into collective supraconscious. Some people have a habit of thinking of the past, crying, weeping – this is this left side. Also these gurus, these unauthorized people can drive you to the left side. Then you enter into the collective subconscious. And all that is dead resides in there. Even I saw one film in England, very interesting, by doctors. I also did medicine so I understand what they are trying to do about that. They said that cancer is caused by the triggering of, triggering of our system by some proteins. They named them. Poor doctors, it’s very honest, they just give names. So they said the name is protein 58, protein 52, but this is just a name. And they’ve photographed also. And they’ve said that those triggering proteins that enter into our being come from the area which is based within us since our creation, means collective subconscious. Imagine. And always cancer is caused through emotional problems. I’ve yet to come across a person that the cancer is caused not without this kind of a movement on the left. Always it’s a left side problem that comes. But I mean doctors, as much as they can see, they can say. So see, they’re honest. They can not go beyond.

Now the right-sided person is a person, which are our most of the bureaucrats, is a person who is very futuristic, describing how we have to go, how we have to reach, we have to buy the tickets, we have to take the plane, we have to organize people. All our five years plans are failing there for the same reason. Because we have been planning too much without understanding the plans of God. First, we should understand the plans of God and then do it. But what we do? We do our human plans. And that’s how we are failing. For example, I went to Moradabad, I told already. Lots of these tractors lying there. I said, “These Russian tractors, what are they doing here?” All junk. They said, “You see, we imported the tractors according to this five-year plan.” Alright. Then what happens? Now they can’t go to villages because there are no roads.” I said, “What sort of planning is that?” And from the villages [UNCLEAR] come back to the city, on the contrary, you are going the other way around. All your planning is aborted. All such planning fail. You just try to plan, it will fail.

And it is written about the Devi: “Sankalpa vikalpa karu” – “He spoils all your plans.” Because you must understand He has a plan. So whatever comes your way, accept it. Say, yesterday I was wrong. Alright, doesn’t matter. I was very quiet and the girls said, Vivian worried, they said, “Mother, you are too patient.” I said, “No, I was enjoying. You see, I was enjoying, the vibrations were going. I was enjoying. What is there to feel?” Now wherever you have to take, you take as there is. What is there to be excited and getting angry with you when you are trying your level best? I was very silent about it and I was enjoying the whole thing. So when you start witnessing the whole thing you do not plan. You just witness, see. And then you are amazed, you are so relaxed about it. But this cannot be told that I cannot brainwash you to say “you relax and relax” and that. But when you become the Spirit, even if you want to, you can’t worry. I mean, I can’t worry, even if I want to. See, my husband has a big complaint about me, that “This lady never worries about a thing.” But everything works out so well for me, I don’t know what is there to worry? Nothing has gone wrong. What is there to worry? By worrying I don’t think anything comes out. But all such futuristic people can be very dangerous to themselves.

I met the other day a gentleman who is the chairman of a “Paluka ….”, something and I asked him in Marathi, I said, “What is your name?” – “That also I forgot.” – I said, “That also you forgot. What is your wife’s name?” – “That also I forgot.” And the wife started crying, “See, he’s forgotten even my name.” I said, “Fathers name?” – “That also I forgot.”. He was so futuristic that all past was cut out. So if you become futuristic all the past goes out. But the worst thing is emotionally you get drained out. So what happens – emotionally you become weak. You have no time for your wife, you cannot enjoy everything, you’re always one foot out and one foot inside, you are in such a speed and the emotional side is weak. But the seriousness of it, it’s very dangerous and one of the most serious diseases one gets with this kind of frantic behaviour is a blood cancer and that’s why I want to warn you.

Now blood cancer is caused by the overactivity of the spleen in our body, it’s on the left-hand side here, because it produces red blood corpuscles for the use of all kinds of emergencies. For example, early in the morning, the husband would get up, I mean that’s my common thing, I’ve seen it, he takes his time to read the newspaper. And newspaper one should not read in the morning, I’m quite of the opinion because I’ve seen that when he is reading his spleen is going into a big thing. Because you see, he feels responsible for the whole world, he gets very upset – now something happening here and there, and something happening to the peace and everything. So, you cannot solve any problem as such, but he is reading the newspaper. Then you get up and you have your bath in a hurry and then you just dress up. And as soon as you are in your dress, the fast has come, the speed comes in. You sit on the table and just have your breakfast a little bit, you walk out, you are halfway through, you find a jam on the road, you shout at people, scream at them – sometimes, my husband is a very silent man, he’ll just hold that, but the spleen is going on because it is working that emergency all the time. First, it looks after the newspaper, then it looks after the bath, it looks after the emergency of eating the food, then emergency of going up to the office, all these emergencies are looked after by this poor thing and the spleen goes out of order.

When the spleen goes out of order then it becomes crazy. When it becomes crazy then it just not [UNCLEAR]. It becomes so crazy that it loses complete control, it gets receded from the whole and is triggering [UNCLEAR]. And that’s how blood cancer is manifested. The Deity on the spleen is the Gruhalakshmi. Gruhalakshmi is the Deity on the spleen. In older times, I remember my mother and my father – he was a realized soul, and he would sit for his food, my mother would fan him slowly. In the morning he would just take milk but afternoon food if he came home, or anything, she would be fanning him. And with the rhythm of that time, he would eat very slowly, very quietly. But today it is not so. We behave in such a crazy manner that poor spleen does not know how to keep up.

Another very common disease with the thinkers is that they get liver trouble. Very common, liver trouble. With the liver they got slimmed down, they get vomiting sensation, they feel giddy, all these things come because they think too much. So what happens? That when you think too much, I mean you go on thinking just like mad. I mean sometimes I feel that thinking is going to bring [UNCLEAR] still they’re not going to stop. They just think. Just see that. Now, this becomes a habit later on and when you think too much then your system requires more cells for your brain and these come from your stomach where there is fat and these are fat cells. So there’s one centre within us which transforms these fat cells for the use of the brain. Now if you just start thinking, thinking, thinking, morning till evening, it has only one job left – it’s to transform the fat cells. Now the main job of this centre is to look after your liver, look after your pancreas, look after your spleen, look after your kidneys and also look after your [UNCLEAR]. So when you just start thinking it neglects all these things so people get their liver problem, with thinking.

Then is diabetes. Diabetes also comes with the same, because the organ which is the pancreas is neglected so you develop a disease called diabetes. Now you will be amazed that in India, if you go to a village, especially near Meerut where my husband was a collector, people used to take five spoons of sugar, five spoons of sugar, [UNCLEAR, Hindi]. And I was amazed at how could they eat five spoons of sugar and never got diabetes? But see, they were villagers who do not think, you know. They were not so much thinking, they were not in charge of the whole world, they were not carrying all this Goverdhan on their one finger. They were very, very simple people, not thinking too much, taking sugar, eating well, nothing happened. But for a deft person, if he takes sugar, he is there to get diabetes. But by not taking sugar is not the way to cure it. You must cure your pancreas by not thinking. But if I say, “Don’t think”, you cannot do it. It would be just brainwashing. Something has to … [End of recording of Part 1]

Public Program, 1982, June 1st – Indian Embassy in Madrid, Part 2

I went to America. What is their richness? Plastic and rubber, that’s all they have. At most I can say that they’ve borrowed things, what else? If you go to England even a silk sari like this they’ll go an appreciating, “What a nice sari, what a nice sari.” You know to them even one silk sari like this is so precious. To us it is nothing, I mean, you can get a sari. We have so many things in our country which is so precious and nice. But we want for nylon saris, then what can we do? If you think that by having these helicopters we are rich, you’re sadly mistaken. We have all the genuine things in our country, everything. Here even one silver piece you take out, people are shocked, “Oh, you’ve got silver.” I mean, for us silver is not top, we have so much silver there. What is there to feel for?

Poor and poverty is a thing of the mind. In India, I find even poor people so very happy, so very joyful. You go to their house, whatever they have they give. And the person who can give is the rich man, not the person who cannot give. We are just like this, I’ll tell you. I feel sometimes we’re all like this: whatever is the condition we can adjust ourselves. We are not bothered. Like an elephant, doesn’t matter what happens. And that is one of the things that makes sometimes our country very slow-moving, but we are moving in the right direction. I know we are moving in the right direction. Don’t take to ways which are absurd. I tell you, there is nothing to gain from in these absurd things. Joy lies in sharing, in loving, in being compassionate, don’t calculate. If somebody comes in the house, I’ve seen even Indians, you know, calculate how many are coming then they count how many sandwiches is it. I was amazed, these are Indians? I mean, this is not our character, not our character.

I’ve my grandchildren, all born realized, and the two granddaughters, they told me, “Grandma, we want to be air hostesses or at the most nurses.” I said, “Why?” They are both are very clever, very intelligent. I said, “Why? Why air hostess and why a nurse?” – “Only in that profession, you can feed people, otherwise in what profession can you feed?” This is they enjoy that motherliness of feeding. Even a dhoby (lavandaio) comes in the house, they’ll make him sit down on the sofa set, give him to eat and he’ll get so embarrassed. They’ll open the [UNCLEAR], they’ll say, “You must eat.” They’ll bring from the fridge and give. And my daughter, my daughter she really enjoys. She tells us, “See how generous, how generous.” And the generosity is something very, very lovable, very lovable. So one should not be calculated, one should not be so much vindictive. Forgive, forgive people. Forgiveness is a very great blessing, the greatest weapon we have. We should forgive.

We should not be jealous. Jealousy is another thing that’s corroding our country, I don’t know why. Jealous of what? What are we jealous of? You go and see a rich man and you’ll be amazed that they are really unhappy people, what is there to be jealous? If you have to be jealous, be jealous of a person who eats today and not bothered about tomorrow, and sleeps off nicely and gets up in the morning and sings like a bird. That’s the person you should be jealous of. What is the use of being jealous of people who are worried about income tax, who are worried about smuggling, who are worried about this? You’ll have headaches. And with all this, they are not happy. Really, that’s the fact, that’s the reality, I’m telling you. It is not necessary for us to be jealous, not necessary for us to be asking for more, it’s all satisfying, very satisfying.

To be in that country itself is so satisfying. To me, I go to villages, there are no trains, there are no ways of going, I go by bullock cart. My husband says, “How do you manage? I mean there are not even bathrooms.” I said, “They have a very good bathroom suite there.” He said, “Where?” – I said, “Near the river. If you go early in the morning, at 4 o’clock, it’s the best way to have a bath in the river. And you can do what you like with yourself. It’s the best place if you to a village, you get the fresh air and then you sit down with a fresh feeling and you hear the birds singing. It’s so beautiful.” I said, “What is there to feel so bad about it?” They all have been to India, in the villages there, you’ll be amazed. And you’ll be amazed the way they met all the villagers who are Sahaja yogis, just embracing each other, they’re kissing each other, taking them into their house. The first time a westerner has entered into their house. And they are surprised, the way Indians are so joy-giving.

Her brother, who has written this book, he told me, “Mother, I will not get married here, I’ll get married in Rahuri.” Rahuri is my forefather’s place, the Shalivanas. I said, “Alright. So we go to Rahuri people that he wants to get married.” You won’t believe – six thousand people attended his wedding, six thousand people. And we’re having our Indian, Marathi ways of teasing the husband and wife. And we have to give the morsel in the mouth of the boy and the girl has to give the morsel in the mouth of the boy, all that was done. And the name taking and everything, and hiding of the rings, everything we did and they were so very happy. And they looked so beautiful. And they have now a child which is so sweet and so good looking. And I gave him a name of Machindranath because Machindranath lived in that area. And they all call him Machindranath, he is called as Machindranath everywhere. He has another name but they call him Machindranath only, all of them call him Machindranath. So it is so sweet. This a new kind of love, affection and respect.

Such a great country is now respected in the whole world, has to be respected. Whatever is respectable has to be respected. But first of all, we must respect our country’s traditions, we should understand its philosophies, its theories and then only they will respect. Because if we do not have respect, if we do not know much about it, then they will think, “These people haven’t got anything.” We have to know something about ourselves.

So may God bless you. I am very thankful to you for inviting me to meet all these nice people here, to talk to them. It has been really, really very good of you. You also had organized a very good function for us for inaugurating this book “Advent” which I don’t have now. But perhaps you have got one? And we have to now have a reprinting of the book, almost all the books are now finished. I have one more book left here and it is now being translated in French and then we are going to do it in Portuguese and Spanish also. So it will be translated into many languages. We haven’t got an English book “Sahaja yoga and its practice”, isn’t it? The small book, do we have? Alright. [UNCLEAR, Hindi]. We can send them over, so this is a small book, I’ll send it over, let them have a look at it.

Now if you have any questions you must ask me. [Shri Mataji speaks aside in Hindi.]

And the new people, go ahead because we have to begin, alright. You have time, you must have. If you are not lost, it’s only 10 – 15 minutes. You can have your tea, please. Go ahead. [Exchange in Hindi between Shri Mataji and yogis.]

Any questions? Please. It’s a very big subject and a very large subject. I’ve given up to six hundred lectures so far in India, maybe more. In America, I don’t know how many I’ve given.

Q: Sahaja yoga, if I have to tell somebody, how will I define it in one or two sentences?

Shri Mataji: “Sahaja” means something you are born with, and easy, and “yoga” means union with the Divine. Actually, yoga is only possible through Sahaja, means a living method, there is no other way around. It’s a living method, it’s a living happening. You see, as we have become now human beings from the animal state, now we have to become something higher. And what have we to become? We have to become the Spirit. Like you have said, you have to become a collective being.

Now, that evolution is a living process, it’s not any mechanical or human or rational or mental process. It’s a living process, just like seed sprouts. So it is the breakthrough of human awareness into a new awareness where it gets enlightened. But it is not a technique, that is a human technique, it is a divine technique. How does a seed become a tree? We never think about it, we never think. A seed becoming a tree. I mean, not one, thousand and one. Then one seed which is a mango seed will become a mango tree. The sorting out, the whole organization has worked out so beautiful. So all that is done through Sahaja.

Everything is Sahaja. Even Krishna’s play with the gopis was Sahaja yoga. You’ll be amazed, how? You see, what he used to do, he didn’t know how to achieve it. So what he did was to throw a stone at the water they were taking from the river Jamuna. Now, river Jamuna was vibrated by Radhaji, she used to put her feet there. Ra – dha, Ra is the energy, dha means the one who sustains. She used to put her feet in that water. Some Jamuna water they used to carry on their heads. He used to break them at the back and that water used to fall on the Kundalini, so he tried to raise that. And even ra-sa, “ra” means energy, “sa” means with, so rasa is also the same. He tried to put the energy through. You’ll be amazed, in America I met a gentleman called Mr Lord who was an engineer. When he got his Realization he saw himself playing with Krishna, he had never known about Krishna, he didn’t know anything. And he said, “Mother, we all held hands like this and we made a pyramid. And this bright boy went up and he broke a container.” Can you imagine? “And we were feeling his feet on our heads flowing joy.” He had never known Shri Krishna, he had never known who he was. So this was rasa, this what Krishna’s idea was: to hold hands like this and pass the energy; ra-sa, “ra” is energy, “sa” means with. All his tricks were nothing but Sahaja Yoga.

Rama. Rama went bare feet. What was the need for him to go bare feet in Maharashtra? Just to sanctify, put the vibrations.

[UNCLEAR, Hindi] Krishna now. Krishna is “krishi”, from “krishi”, means the one who has done the farming. He is the one who has done the farming and now the farming is to be reaped. Now the time has come to reap the farming.

[Shri Mataji speaks aside]

Now, if you have any questions, please ask. Alright?

Q: Do you recommend the practice of Hatha yoga? The practise of asanas and so on.

Shri Mataji: Of course, of course. But the trouble is Hatha yoga is big science, it’s not one-sidedd, it’s not only… You see, there as ashtangas in that niyama, yama; in the niyama you have ayama, it’s one little bit of it. Now supposing a person is futuristic, what kind of asanas he should do? There is no denotation. You see, we do Hatha yoga as if we are taking the whole medicine box into ourselves. That is not the way. We should know the discrimination. A person who is futuristic should not do any exercises which go back, like mayurasanas and all that. He should go forward, like paschimottanasana. But when the Kundalini rises then that’s the best thing to tell you what is to be done because you know where the Kundalini is hiding. Now supposing it is hiding here, this is the centre of Krishna. Now, what do you have to do here? You’ll be amazed if I tell you and you should not be shocked. Shri Krishna is the Virata, it’s the Primordial Being, it’s the Virata. And what is Virata? It’s Akbar, Mohammad Saab has told us the mantra for this. He says, “Put these fingers”, these are the fingers which denote this, “you put these fingers in the years and say, ‘Allah hu Akbar’, it opens out.” You try this. If you have a problem here with your throat, of course, if you are realized – that’s important, you put your fingers here and say, “Allah hu Akbar” thrice, it will clear out. We all do it, that’s the mantra.

Lord’s prayer is the mantra for this. If you think too much say thrice Lord mantra and it’ll be cleared. These are all mantras. So the whole integrated system must be done, not only singular of yoga, you stand on your head or do something, but the whole integration is needed. And you must understand, discriminatingly, where to use which one.

Like now, they are sitting here talking about Raja yoga when the kumbhaka takes place and this thing happens, a khechari takes place. Even in this horrible Kriya yoga, they cut the tongue, can you imagine? I’ve met people whose tongues are hanging like this and Kabira has really [UNCLEAR] completely, he has really said, [UNCLEAR, Hindi. He was so angry with these people cutting their tongue and putting them wagging like this. Actually what happens? That when the Kundalini rises the kumbhaka takes place, khechari takes place automatically because as the car moves the machine moves also. But deliberately you need not do it by cutting the thing, putting the thing back. You just feel that the thing goes in, but you don’t feel much about it physically, you don’t feel it. But it happens inside, all this thing takes place but you don’t have to do it artificially, it’s a living process [UNCLEAR, Hindi].

Q: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] Spontaneous is living, whatever is living is spontaneous. Spontaneous is living.

Q: But still you have to learn it, it doesn’t come spontaneously, without learning.

Shri Mataji: It does. It does. Without learning, even children are doing it. Small, small children know it. You see, when they put their fingers in their …, let’s say their thumb, it means you are catching on this centre. When they put this, you are catching on this. Now, this centre is because you are guilty, feel guilty about things. Now why you have to learn? Because when you have to master it then you have learned it.

Q: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] You have now be born as a child in a new dimension. Then you must know what is this, what you have got. For example, I come to Spain and I’ve got Spanish money and I don’t know how to spend it. How will I know? I must spend it. When you start giving it, you’ll learn it very fast. Learning is very easy, but you must give. [UNCLEAR, Hindi], it’s easy.

Q: Give what?

Shri Mataji: Give vibrations.

Q: I would like to take some.

Shri Mataji: You take and give. You see, what happens: when you give then it flows more, if you are enlightened, light must be given. Giving is taking. The more you give the more you get.

[exchange in Hindi between a lady and Shri Mataji about Karma yoga]

It’s a mental attitude. Actually, there is nothing like Karma yoga. Karma is now, which is a-karma. We don’t do any karmas but karmas happen. I mean, I’m in akarma, I don’t do anything really, to be here.

Q: These vibrations, how do they move?

Shri Mataji: Now what happens: that the Spirit, Spirit is the one, when it touches your attention – Chitta, when the Chitta is touched by the Spirit, it starts emitting its vibrations and those are like a cool breeze. But actually, this cool breeze doesn’t come from the Spirit as such. Spirit is just a plug and if you are plugged into it the electricity starts flowing. So the All-pervading Power which is above us starts flowing.

Q: Now the Spirit coming in touch, is it by [UNCLEAR, Hindi]?

Shri Mataji: No, it’s not a conscious effort. It is just the effort of the Great Support, it’s a Great Support.

Q: At what time it may come?

Shri Mataji: Anytime. But like you see, Buddha, he got his Realization because he’s so dharmic. But of course, the same power gives him the power, it’s only the way his Kundalini goes, he got his Realization. Buddha, as I told you yesterday, was a very practical incarnation, that he didn’t want to talk of God, anything, he just wanted to talk about the Self and that’s why it happened like that. It can happen to someone, very rarely happens like that. You have to have somebody to enlighten you.

Q: So what we do to remove the hindrances to this connection?

Shri Mataji: There are hindrances because of the …

Q: And the connection inevitably will be established?

Shri Mataji: No, Kundalini won’t rise. [Hindi], you will be dharmic, you will be dharmic. You will be very good for Realization. But Kundalini has to rise to somebody who has that thought. For example, a light which is enlightened can only enlighten another one, but he has to be a satguru, he has to be a person who is a realized soul and who has knowledge. So if you are realized and if you know about Sahaja yoga you can give realization, these people are giving realization. One person in Maharashtra has given realization to ten thousand people, can you believe. So it is possible.

[exchange in Hindi about Kundalini, Atma and Param-atma] What is the need to have a happening? [Hindi] so that our attention is attracted.

[Hindi], in sense, that if you want to ask any question as you’d ask, say, to a computer, you’d become a living divine computer. You ask any question. For example, if you want to ask, “Is there God?” As soon as you ask the question you’ll get tremendous vibrations coming to you. You want to know about somebody who is a realized soul or not, there won’t be any vibrations. You go to a place… I’ll give you a very interesting incident.

We had gone to Kashmir. And at that time our Sai Saab was there and he said, “Go around and see places.” And we were going just in Kashmir, some places. And in the wilderness suddenly I felt tremendous vibrations. So I asked the guide, “Is there anybody around or any temple, or anything around?” because there are lots of good temples in Kashmir. He said, “No, there isn’t. Here it’s all wilderness and very few people live here” and all that. I said, “No, but there is vibration.” My husband said, “Why should we worry?” I said, “No, no, I must find out. They’re so tremendous, I must find out.” So he went through a circuitous route. I told him, “Alright, now go and find out from these people.” So came around Muslims. He said, “Yah, Hazrat Ali, Hazratbal, Hazratbal is there, the place for Harzarbal. And now this is only one hair of Mohammed Saab kept there and I caught the vibrations about four, five miles away from it.

So to feel the vibrations is the only way to know what is reality. That’s how we’ve discovered in our country Ashta Vinayakas, we have discovered Shiva’s places, we have discovered all other places. Now this place, Mata Mary we have in Bombay which is the statue of the Mother Mary and the Christ, and all sorts of places. Here also, Notre Dame is vibrated.

The other day I went to Portugal and there was a fair so I told them I will go to the fair. They said, “Why?” I said, “There must be something.” So we went there and I asked them, “Is there a shrine in this place?” They said, “What happened?” They said from the rock, in the rock, some children were moving about, they were following a little rabbit and the rabbit entered into a hole. And when they put their hand this statue came out. And a funny rock, it’s a very different type of rock, it’s not a common one. It is absolutely a wedge of Virgin Mary, with the eyes, with the almond eyes as all the descriptions are, just like that, with her hair like that, absolutely. And such vibrations in that place, you’re getting down you can feel them.

We have so many such places in India but how will you know, unless and until you are a realized soul? And nobody understood realized souls, they used to torture them. Anybody said anything, just tortured him. But now they cannot. Because people used to make money off everything so they would not like a realized soul because then they can’t take money. When religion becomes a money-making proposition then naturally they don’t like it because it goes against their business.

Q: Will the vibrations cure someone? What exactly happens?

Shri Mataji: For example, cancer. I’ll give you one example of cancer, it’s this way. This is supposing the centre of the spinal cord, or medulla oblongata as in science is, and this is – on the one side it’s the left-side power and the right-side power on the other. Now if you go on too much moving onto the left, too much onto the left, what happens? This gets dislocated. And there is a Deity in the centre, every centre has a deity. So the Deity slips off and you just get cut out. When you get to cut out the connection with the whole is lost. Then you start growing on your own, that is malignancy. Anyone who tries to grow on his own is malignant and then that malignant thing starts eating other cells. Now, what do we do when we give the vibrations, supposing on the Nabhi chakra? If there is a cancer of the stomach, it could be with some other reasons also. For example, if anyone gets cancer of the stomach, we can’t cure that but we give the vibrations with our hands, on the stomach. Then what happens that this gap heals, it comes back to normal and the relation with the whole is established. If such a person gets Realization, he gets cured. It’s only establishing your relationship with the whole and putting you in contact with the whole. And the whole thing works out in a constructive way. The whole destruction becomes constructive. It’s just like switching off and switching on. It’s very simple. It’s integration. Like an atomic bomb. Atoms are separated. Then what happens? That is an artificial thing, you just put them out, they are integrated. And that force creates destruction.

Another system, we can say, of the alcohol. Somebody is an alcoholic, he gets a bad liver. Now to cure it is very simple. Because when you take alcohol, the hydrogen atom and oxygen atom are placed like this, because there is H2O, 2 hydrogens place like this and oxygen here, normal water as we’ve got. And by this what happens? When it goes near the liver, the liver has the capacity to extract the heat from the body and put it in the water. So people get temperature, if you some have poison in the body with temperature it goes out, the whole thing goes out of the system. But in case you take too much alcohol, say you become alcoholic, then this system breaks; it goes like that. And when it goes near liver like that it cannot receive any heat, that’s why the heat starts accumulating. Such a person may not get any trouble for some time because the liver is the most patient thing, but he may develop cirrhosis of the liver or something serious later. Now with Sahaja yoga what happens: that the hydrogen becomes this. Because the hydrogen becomes enlightened and it receives the heat. And then, you will be amazed, I’ve seen people emitting such heat that the whole room doesn’t need any heater in a place like London, can you imagine? Such heat comes out of them that is surprising, from the liver, tremendous heat.

[Shri Mataji speaks in Hindi mixed with English] In the village they will vibrate the water and just drink it. [Hindi] All the vibrations, they go in the stomach and cure a person. Actually, you’ll be amazed, [Hindi]. 1970 is the year. Actually, it was redone by another [Hindi], so he brought it down [Hindi], according to that he calculated and he said it was 1970. But even this [UNCLEAR, Bujendra?] he’s written about it at least a hundred years back. It’s very interesting how people are progressing in India. But [Hindi] Blake Saab, this William Blake*. Oh, he is remarkable. He said, “In those days the men of God will become prophets and they will have the power to make others prophets.” [Hindi]

You will feel better. [Hindi] Just take out your shoes, that is important because the Mother Earth must help us. You’ll feel so much better and no problem, no problem, there is no problem at all, it is very simple, and you’ll feel so relieved. [Hindi]

[min 32:24: Shri Mataji starts giving the Self-realization, mostly in silence]

Please close your eyes.

[Hindi] Start feeling the cool breeze. Both the feet should stay on the ground and you start feeling a cool breeze coming into them, very relaxing. I mean, you really feel so relaxed, very relaxed, there is no thought.


Have you? He’s got it.


He’s got it. What about her?


What about her?

Ok? You’ve got it too?


Let’s see the little one, you’ve got it? [Hindi]

And you get such a complete relaxation. Now you watch me without thinking. Just watch me without thinking.


First thing, you take a photograph, we can send it over and the vibrations come from the photograph.


How is she? Liver? You have taken the right thing, you come and it’ll be alright. [Hindi]

Q: What is wrong with me?

Shri Mataji: [Hindi]

[Hindi] left Swadishthana. You’ve had some guru or somebody that you believe in?


Shri Mataji: Oh, see, that’s the problem. That’s why you have got a problem.

Alright, you see. He too, he’s got it. Ok. What about her? [Hindi]

*(about William Blake)