Conversation. Madrid (Spain), 3 June 1982.
[A Spanish yogini is translating Shri Mataji into Spanish]
Shri Mataji: See, all shaking now. It’s all right, doesn’t matter. He’s shaking. Doesn’t matter. Don’t get worried.
Man: No, no.
Shri Mataji: No. All right? He is all right.
See now. You are better, you are all right! Are you feeling? He is feeling now. He started feeling. Just see him also, just see his vibrations. Just see him. Work on him, I’ll just follow you. Because he’s… ah! Left Agnya.
Who’s there? Where are, what are they doing? Ann? Just speak… are you writing down? All right, all right. Can you bring the light behind his Agnya, close here? [Yogini speaks in Spanish]
Yogi (translates the question of a seeker): Muktananda was a disciple of Nityananda. Was he good?
Shri Mataji: Nityanand?
Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Nityanand was. But he is no disciple of his, he is all false. Nityanand was a realised soul.
Yogi: Nityananda.
Shri Mataji: But…
Yogi: Bhagavan Nityananda.
Shri Mataji: Hm?
Yogi: Bhagavan Nityananda.
Shri Mataji: Hm? Bhagavan…?
Yogi: Bhagavan Nityananda.
Yogini: Bhagavan Nityananda.
Shri Mataji: But he was not Bhagavan. Nityanand was just a realised soul.
See, there is a difference between an incarnation and a realised soul.
Yogi: Bhagavan is an incarnation.
Shri Mataji: Incarnation. Now, incarnation among all these, was Shirdi Sai Nath. Shirdi Sai Nath was. So only you must bow to an incarnation, and not to somebody who is a… [Yogi: “Realised soul”]. No. No.
You can tell now. [Yogi translates into Spanish]
Like as we can say, at the time of Christ, John the Baptist was a realised soul only, and Christ was an incarnation.
And His mother was a Holy Ghost, of course, incarnation. She was Mahalakshmi, Mahalakshmi. She was Radha.
Ra-dha, Ra. Ra-dha. Dha, Dha means sustenance, sustenance of energy, Ra-dha. So She was incarnation, He was, but not John the Baptist.
John the Baptist is reborn now in India.
He is, he is announcing my coming also, but he is about 108 years of age. He is about 108, very old man. And his legs are broken, hands are broken. People have broken his hands and legs. And he goes on a tiger, he moves on a tiger. [Yogi translator: “He rides on a tiger?”]
Ha. And lives in a very high mountain in the forest. He tells people about me.
I went to see him and cured him also. But he is a very hard taskmaster. He is not very kind to sahaja yogis [Shri Mataji laughs]. One man – he told me, “Anybody troubles You, You send him over to me.”
So I sent one man to him, because he was just troubling me with questions, questions, questions. I said, “You go and see that guru.” And he felt very enamoured; he thought he was a chosen one [Shri Mataji laughs].
[Repeats to translator] He was enamoured, he felt very enamoured, he thought he was a chosen one, you see [Shri Mataji laughs].
[Shri Mataji explains further to translator] Ha, ha, when I told him he felt very enamoured, you see? [Yogi translator: “Very enamoured of whom?”] Of himself! [Shri Mataji laughs].
And when he went there, you know, after a month he came back with his both legs absolutely dangling like this, and he dangling in the… some people brought him like that, holding him with his hands. [Repeats to translator] The man, he came back like that to me. On the neck, his legs were on his neck.
So I asked him – I mean I, really tears came into my eyes, you see. I said, “What has happened?”. He said, “Mother, this guruji threw me down the khud in the night.”
I said, “He did personally?”
“No, no, no, no, his tiger came and threw me down. And I fell down about fourteen feet, and broke my legs.
After three days he lowered some [Shri Mataji laughs], some bread for me [Shri Mataji repeats to translator: “Three days”], through a, what you call… [Yogi translator: “Rope?”] – rope. And then after sixth day he brought me up.”
Can you imagine? [Shri Mataji laughs] [Yogi translator: “On the sixth day they…?”] … brought him up. He brought him up.
Because, his family had reached there.
Tell them: on the sixth day, sixth day, sixth day – after six days, he brought me up, because the family had reached there to find him out, you see, his family.
Yogi: And they brought them back to You?
Shri Mataji: Ah, they brought, and he told that: “Put these legs on your neck and go to your Mother. She is the one who will cure, She has compassion, I have none. And don’t say anything.” So I said, “What did you do? Why did he do this to you?”
So he said, “I talked against You, saying that, ‘Mother is giving realisation to every Dick, Tom and Harry. She should not do this, giving realisation to everyone; this is very wrong.’ I was saying like this to him.” Just imagine, to punish him like this for that!
Another doctor, poor thing. You know, I sent him there, because he was also little bit troubling me. I didn’t know he will be so harsh.
Before this, before this. And what he did, is to…
[Aside: “Ah. All right? Done. Now, you sit down there and you put your hands. Now sit down at the back, let me see. Just sit down. Yes. Good. Now. Now put one hand towards me and one hand down, now come along”.]
Now, this doctor, poor thing, you see, he made him take a bucket of water. He made him… – [Aside: “Just pull it together, so, yes. Just pull it nearer, so that both of you can share it”.]
Now this doctor, he gave a big bucket full of water to be carried to Shiva temple, about three miles walking.
[Yogi translator: “Who gave him the water?”] He, this guru.
And asked him to bring every day and wash the temple with a big bucket. Two buckets like this, carry. And three miles he had to walk up the hill to wash the temple.
When he came to me back, he was in bones, absolute bones.
[Aside: “All right?”]
Yogi [after translating]: So, he was asking what happened to you.
Shri Mataji: To him.
Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: So he, he said that, “This guru has made me work like this, You see, I had to clean the Shiva’s temple for a month”.
So when I asked this guru, “Why did you do like that to him?” So he said, “A donkey must do donkey’s work”. [Laughter] They are like that, you know. And they are very hard.
Another Indian in America, I gave him realisation in America. Yesterday you were asking me a question: if this power can be used for something bad. So this is an answer to that. So this one, like an Indian, you see, he wanted to make money out of vibrations. So he started an ashram. I didn’t mind the ashram, but I didn’t know he was making money out of it. When he came back to Bombay to see me.
In Sahaja Yoga, Bombay people are very experts. [The translator: “Inside?”] Sahaja Yoga, Bombay people are great experts, you see. Maharashtrians are great experts [Aside: “All right”]. So, they told me, “Mother, what’s wrong with this fellow? He gives us giddiness.” [Repeats to the translator: “Giddiness, giddiness”]
So I asked him, “All right, let me see your ashram brochure”. In that he had written: “For vibrations hundred dollars”. Vibrations. For giving vibrations, hundred dollars. And for special vibrations something like 265 dollars [Shri Mataji laughs]. I said, “How much did you pay me to get all this? Why did you do such a thing?”
So he said to me, “How am I to live?”
I said, “You were a teacher, you become a teacher again. Why should you do this? You should teach children, that’s all, and earn your own living. You can’t make money.”
[Aside: “All right. All right”].
Now, he said – I said, “It’s all right, if you have people there who are eating food, you can take money for food and all that, it’s all right, but not for vibrations”. All right. But he got very angry with me. He started shouting at me, and one of the sahaja yogis said, “Now we’ll throw him down.” They got very angry, you know, my boys – boys got very angry, they said, “I will throw him down.”
So I said, “No, no, no, let him be.”
He said, “I’m going to see some other guru.”
There’s another realised soul living in Calicut. Another realised soul, another guru.
Yogi: He went to see another.
Shri Mataji: Ha, that, he said, “I will see him”. Calicut. He is a realised soul I knew. So I said, “All right, go and see him.”
And he came back about ten days from there. So he telephoned to me. He said, “Mother, please forgive me for what I have said to You.”
I said, “What happened?”
So he talked to me for an hour on the phone. He said, “When I went there to see him, when I entered the gate, he started throwing stones at me – and torrential, You know [Shri Mataji laughs]. And I ran away from there to the station. I was sitting there, and a man came to see me”.
Yogi translator: The man, the guru?
Shri Mataji: No, some man. And he told me that, ‘The guru has sent me to say that you have quarrelled with Mother and you cannot come to me after that. If you try to see me, I will hit you hard.” So… [Shri Mataji laughs]
But he told to this man that, “Now please forgive me, I will go and ask forgiveness from Mother,” and all that, because he was very anxious to see this guru. So the guru called him and recited from Devi Mahatmyam something in Sanskrit. Very seriously (unclear). “And the tape – he said – you take it and make Mother listen to it”.
[Aside: “At the Nabhi, you can see from the back, you know?”]
And this fellow, I never saw him, because he tried to meet me, just could not meet.
He came to London, he could not meet. Somehow or other it didn’t happen. You can’t make money out of love.
[Conversation aside]
Yogini: Left Swadishthana.
Shri Mataji: Now. You have to say… just take out this for the time. Now. You just say: “Mother, I’m not guilty.”
Man: “Mother, I’m not guilty.”
Shri Mataji: Again.
Man: “Mother, I’m not guilty.”
Shri Mataji: Again.
Man: “Mother, I’m not guilty.”
Shri Mataji: Again.
Man: “Mother, I’m not guilty.”
Shri Mataji: Again.
Man: “Mother, I’m not guilty.”
Shri Mataji: You must say. Now, can you feel? No? [Man: “No”]
Narakasura Mardini Aham Sakshat[1]. Aham Sakshat Narakasura Mardini, Aham Sakshat Narakasura Mardini. Aham Sakshat Narakasura Mardini. Aham Sakshat Narakasura Mardini. Aham Sakshat Narakasura Mardini. Aham Sakshat Narakasura Mardini. Have they removed something from the brain?
Man: Taken a portion of the vein, Mother, and some water.
Shri Mataji: Only vein or not? These doctors are also funny, they remove things as such [indistinct word].
This is Shri Ganesha.
This is Shri Ganesha, and Hitler used it the other way round, destruction. Hitler used it for the other way round. This becomes a cross here. What – it means, what happened, by the end of their war, you know, they got confused, Germans, they got confused, Germans, you see, and – they got confused at the end of the war. Yes. And what happened, they started using these stencils, you see, stencils for making swastikas. Stencils, you know stencils?
Is a cut-out. In the paper, you see, they cut out a thing and then they paint it, so the thing comes up. You see, if you have to take out something you can cut it out, put the paper there and just paint it, so the mark comes there. That is called what, stencils.
[Yogi: “Stencils, yes.”] Hm, what do you say in…? [Yogi: “The same…” (Spanish words)]
So they got confused, you see. So, in that confusion, later on they started putting the other way round. And they lost their war. That’s a trick of God. That is a trick of God.
I went to Berlin, Berlin I went, with my husband, and I saw both the types of marks. Beg your pardon?
[Indistinct translation from Spanish of a question] What?
They were using tantrism from lamas.
Yogi (translates): He is saying that they were using lamas from the order of the green dragon.
Shri Mataji: From all the kinds of lamas they used, all supra-conscious. We know, Indians know. Even in Argentina they are there. They are in Argentina helping the Argentineans, hiding themselves. They are helping the regime of Argentina.
Because when I went to Argentina, I saw them doing the goose step, when they are parading.
And I asked them, “How is it you are doing goose step?” So they said that – they got frightened. I said, “There are Germans who are teaching you?”
And in Argentina they have captured these people and they are building up very huge nuclear reactors there. Some of the scientists, German scientists are hiding there. And they want to use that base for destruction. But this Falkland will now stop it. Will stop that.
No, they cannot, because now what has happened that they are exposed, Germans are exposed and also now Argentineans know that.
[Aside: “I have to see… Yes. Now this lady is – you just put your left hand towards me and right hand on her head. Left, this side”].
How much they harm you, you see, how much your Mother has to work it out to take their horrible things that they have from my children.
Yogi: Mother, they are also in Paraguay, You know.
Shri Mataji: Take out this, I think also little bit. Will be better for the children. Put it in the water. You see, these are material things are, so they catch your negativity, material things. [Comments of agreement from seeker – Shri Mataji laughs] He is going very fast!
Yogini: He is asking: a cross too, Mother?
Shri Mataji: Cross too catches.
You see, because you purchase the cross.
You see, you can’t purchase the cross. And while I’m the cross, I can’t see the cross myself.
Resurrection is the message of Christ, not cross. I can’t see Him like that suffer. You see, the people are also funny, they make out Christ lanky-panky fellow.
[Shri Mataji is eating and She starts coughing]
Shri Mataji: I’m eating the bhoots. Hm.
Now better. Better? Not feeling in the hands? Now, do you feel it? Vibrations?
[Yogi: “He doesn’t feel many in the hands.”] But do you feel? [Yogi: “Yes, Mother.”] All right. Because he has very bad Vishuddhi. Doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter.
Yogini: He says that he has to go, Mother, but at one o’clock he will be here to take You to the airport.
Shri Mataji: He’ll come back.
Yogini: Yes, Mother, at one o’clock.
Shri Mataji: All right. All right.
Yogini: He’ll be back at one o’clock to take You to the airport, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Thank you. Thank you very much.
May God bless you. How is your wife? Is she all right?
Yogini [translates laughing]: He said, “Yes, because women usually are better than men”. [Shri Mataji laughs] Because they are on earth, and they are more… The victims are men!
Shri Mataji: He is really, he is a dynamic fellow. He is a great man. May God bless you! Amazing. He is very good. He was asking me questions about the cosmos.
Yogi: About the cosmos.
Shri Mataji: Hm. It was very great questions he asked. Very discreet.
Yogini: He is saying, Mother, that he loves You very much and we cannot imagine the work You are doing.
Shri Mataji [laughing]: May God bless you. You have to do my work, all of you!
[A man says in Spanish that Jesus died on the cross for truth and our sins, Shiva drank all the poison of the world, and She is doing an equal, parallel work.]
Is he better? [Yogini: “Yes”]. Tell him to do “Allah Hu Akbar”.
[Then the man repeats “Allah Hu Akbar”]
Let me hold your hand. Now better.
Is it coming? No? Not flowing in? First it was flowing? Yes. You got it going like that. All right. All right. Did she feel hurt? Did she feel hurt? Did you feel hurt? When I left her hand?
Otherwise she also feels hurt before also? [Yogini: “Yes, Mother”]
Put your hands.
Yogini: It’s flowing in both hands, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Good. Good now, started. Now you sit there, and you put your left hand towards me, let it come out. It’s better now, working.
Yogi: She’s sweating.
Shri Mataji: She’s sweating – heart. Better be on the ground, would be better. Come on the ground. Good for her. Come this side, move this side, move this side.
Are you feeling any energy in the hands flowing? Hold my hand tight. Try to push your fingers. Cleared out. Better. You also take out. Can you get some others for me? What is this? He’s very nice. Ah. All right? Let’s try the other way round. Ah, now it started moving.
Aham Sakshat Narakasura Mardini, Aham Sakshat Narakasura Mardini.
Bhandasura this, Bhandasura this.
Aham Sakshat Bhandasura Mardini, Aham Sakshat Bhandasura Mardini, Aham Sakshat Bhandasura Mardini, Aham Sakshat Bhandasura Mardini, Aham Sakshat…
Ah! Now.
Aham Sakshat Sarva Mantra Siddhi, Aham Sakshat Sarva Mantra Siddhi, Aham Sakshat Sarva Mantra Siddhi, Aham Sakshat Sarva Mantra Siddhi, Aham Sakshat Sarva Mantra Siddhi.
Ah!
Aham Sakshat Moksha Dayini, Aham Sakshat Moksha Dayini, Aham Sakshat Moksha Dayini,
Aham Sakshat Moksha Dayini.
Aham Sakshat Nirmalam, Aham Sakshat Nirmalam, Aham Sakshat Nirmalam, Aham Sakshat Nirmalam, Aham Sakshat Nirmalam, Aham Sakshat Nirmalam, Aham Sakshat Nirmalam, Aham Sakshat Nirmalam, Aham Sakshat Nirmalam.
All right? Are you feeling the cool breeze? [Yogini translates: “Not yet, Mother”]
Come up. Vishuddhi.
Are you feeling lighter in the hands, in any way? Better? Feeling the energy flowing in? Are you feeling better now? Ah! No, put it at the back, for the candle. No, no, no.
Did you do some jumping with him or nothing? No jumping.
[Man: “No. No, no.”] No, not at all. Ah! Better, it’s better. I have to burn my fingers. Ah! Now see her vibrations.
Are you all right? Did you feel the cool breeze? You’d better feel, because you can treat your daughter. You try to put your hands.
Put her right together.
Now? Work out. That’s what she is.
Aham Sakshat Ekadasha Rudra, Aham Sakshat Ekadasha Rudra, Aham Sakshat Ekadasha.
Better now? Now your hand, is it raising?
Yogini: She’s feeling the cool breeze.
Shri Mataji: Hm?
Yogini: She’s feeling the cool breeze.
Shri Mataji: Good. See, she has not been to any guru, how far she feels – though has worried about the child, you see.
Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: But these gurus, how they try to trouble you – see now, they stop your realisation, see now. See. And she got it, though she is worried about her child.
Is he all right? All right, too you put in your left hand for some times outside. It’s the worst of all attitudes for the left side. [Unclear].
Just take it down, it will be all right. Little … What you do, is to hold your hand this side, you come from this side. Hm? And I’ll put the hand there. You both do. So it will flow out.
It’s better. It’s all right. Better?
Better open the door, better open the door, it will go out. All of you come this side. If you could stand in the door is the best.
You see, open the door, it’s not very cold. Open the door, it’s good. Let all of them go out, the bhoots. Is it cold for you, are you feeling cold? It’s very cold? No, no, is it very cold? He should wear a sweater.
Man: No, no.
Shri Mataji: No? All right, put your hand outside, just outside. Outside, that’s it. You’d better wear your sweater. No, no, no, you’ll feel more.
How are you feeling now? How is this gentleman? Is he all right? Are you feeling the cool breeze? I know, and she is also feeling. Yes [Shri Mataji laughs]. So now you are done, you are all right.
Now you have to help me. We want to establish a centre here now, how can we do it? Tell me. Can we use your flat for connection, for sending books and everything to your place? Because we have no address. Can we use your address to send you books and things from London? [Man: “Yes”] All right? Now, can you get his address and phone number?
Yogi: Yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: We have no connection, this is the problem, you see? So when we gave realisation they got lost, we had no connection, we needed one address.
And he is going to stay here, for a month or two months. But the trouble is we’ll send him some money to exist, but then you’ll have to look after him for a while, till he is here. It’s better all of you gather, you see, money, and look after him. We’ll send him money for some time, but London people should not pay for your salvation, isn’t it?
You should pay yourself. So he requires little money, not too much. If you can gather you see money for his food and all that as such.
Are you better? Hm. How is your hand? You are moving yourself, she is moving herself now. Tell her she is moving herself, there’s no need to hold. See? All right? [Shri Mataji laughs] Is done! All right? May God bless you.
You don’t have to do – you can do it yourself with that hand. She need not. Just move your hand. [Shri Mataji laughs] All right? As a habit she puts the other hand, it’s all right. See now.
Yogini: She is asking: What about the head, Mother?
Shri Mataji: It’s better. Ask her, ask her how she’s feeling. You ask her.
All right? Ah, very good. Is opening, yes.
Yes, it is opening. In her brain she is all right now. Now she is relaxed, you see. [Shri Mataji laughs] You see, she is sitting relaxed. You just watch me. See, her face is changed!
Are you feeling all right now?
[SECOND PART STARTS HERE]
[Conversation with sahaja yogis continues]
Shri Mataji: Hm, better. Liver. What works you do?
Yogini: He says secretary…
Shri Mataji: You type. Left to the right. No problem. But when you type too much, it is overactivity.
Man: Sit down, sit down, write too much.
Shri Mataji: That is the thing. So too much activity. Is she better?
And they told me a fantastic thing. Loudly. And they said that their Indians, the old Indians that they had, their old people, told them that a God from India, that is Bharat, (our?) Bharata country, called Vishnu came on a condor. Because, you see, they were on the right side, they could see all these things.
But you don’t have to see, you have to be. Seeing is not being. If you become the light, you don’t see the light.
Now. You got “Advent”? Have you got “Advent”? My book “Advent” have you got? Yogi: Yes, yes.
Shri Mataji: Reading through it?
Yogi: Beautiful.
[A yogi translates a question from a man: “He asks what does it mean, if you see something happening that makes you very sad, and that gives the anguish…”]
Man: Very, very, very, very.
Shri Mataji: You feel that way?
Yogi translates: He feels like that very often, Mother.
Shri Mataji: He feels very hurt.
Yogini: Yes.
Yogi: Yes, Mother, and he feels very sad.
Shri Mataji: Very sensitive. But do you sleep all right? [Man (in Spanish): “Yes”] You sleep more or less?
Man: Six hours. Today six hours. Yes.
Shri Mataji: All right. [A sound is heard like patting and rubbing maybe on the back of the person] All right? May God bless you.
Tell her that she has to stop the Pranayama completely. It’s wrong. And she should take little water in her hand, little lukewarm water, and sip it in the nose every morning, and throw it out. It will clear out her sinus.
And also tell her that in the night, for one or two days, she should roast an onion, peel it out and foment this part, for two, three days.
Wipe the thing with some towel and sleep off. For two, three days. Her sinus will clear out.
Take out your coat. Take out the coat.
[Indistinct words]
… is going to come, He’s steady.
But people are still expecting Holy Ghost to come sometime. They won’t accept me! They want to postpone the truth. They don’t want to accept the truth. That’s human nature.
Man: Just about at the end of Pisces.
Shri Mataji: Hm?
Man: Just about at the end of Pisces.
Shri Mataji: What are you saying? What did you say now? This is the end of the…?
Man: End of the era of Pisces. And the beginning of Aquarius. Is that when the…
Shri Mataji: No, with the Pisces ending, will come Aquarius.
Man: Aquarius. Is that when the Mother comes again, the Holy Ghost?
Shri Mataji: Or the Pisces ending…
Man: Aquarius.
Shri Mataji: Aquarius.
Man: Aquarius now.
Shri Mataji: What’s he saying?
Yogini: That now it is the age of Aquarius.
Shri Mataji: Yes. Aquarius is the kumbha, is the Kundalini. Aquarius is the kumbha.
Man: Kumbha.
Shri Mataji: You see, all these centres are related to our science.
I was born on the twenty-first of March, at the equinox.
Man: You are Pisces, too.
Shri Mataji: It’s a zero hour, because at twelve o’clock, exactly, zero, it’s a zero hour, absolutely at the zero hour. Twelve o’clock in the daytime. Absolutely zero hour, when, you see, the earth was absolutely nearest.
Ah! All right now, better. It’s risen up. Ah, better now, see? [Man: “Yes”] Better now? Vibrating? Where is this? Just little bit flowing, this is through the Brahma Nadi it’s flowing. See now, very little minute one. See the flow, it’s now very minute. [Man: “Yes”] Still flowing, here it is.
You see the shirt shows, see? Little bit. Oh, you will see that much more now, gradually.
When you will be giving realisation, you will see that for yourself, so many, thousands! You’ll see all the miracles of God now. It is your own power now you’ll be feeling. Yes. I am just Mother. I want all my powers to be enjoyed by my children.
Man: The Shakti. I’m the Shakti.
Shri Mataji: Ah! Now he’s got. You feel it on the head, see, feel it on the head.
Yogini: Very peaceful, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Eh?
Yogini: Very peaceful.
Man: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Come little backwards. Just push yourself backwards.
My feet are very powerful, very powerful. These are delicate, for delicate work, my hands.
There are thirty-five crores devatas.
Yogi: Thirty-five?
Shri Mataji: Crores. Crores are – how much, hundred thousand? It is sixteen thousand million.
Yogi: Sixteen thousand?
Shri Mataji: At this.
Yogi: Vishuddhi.
Shri Mataji: But all together, if you see the whole Brahmanda, there are thirty-five crores deities, and they all have powers. Crores are – or say, hundred thousand, is crore. Thirty-five hundred thousand, all right?
It’s amazing, you see, just amazing thing.
Can you feel it? See now, you should feel.
All right? It is true, it is true, it is not some sort of a hallucination. You feel it on your central nervous system.
Man: I felt very cool this morning, for the first time.
Shri Mataji: The Kundalini cools you down. Shiva’s blessings are. Ha! All right?
These are my mantras: Ha! Say it. [Man: “Ha!”] Ha! My mantras.
Tell them in Portuguese also these mantras (unclear).
You can feel it in your hands. [Man: “Yes”] Are you feeling cool breeze now? Yes? Are you feeling? Good. [Shri Mataji laughs] It’s good now.
He hasn’t started yet. All right, come along. Are you feeling all right? Are you feeling the cool breeze?
He’s great. He’s enjoying. [Shri Mataji laughs]
Yogini: He says it’s too much.
Shri Mataji: Eh?
Yogini: He says it’s too much.
Shri Mataji: Too?
Yogini: He says it’s too… I said You said he’s enjoying.
Shri Mataji: He is just enjoying. Come forward. I’ll have to put my foot on your stomach, if you don’t mind. You have a problem here. If you can resist… the bulgement is too strong, make it loose, very strong it is. That bulges out the stomach, you see. Better like this. Come forward. Now. Left side. Did you go anywhere in the night somewhere and then you got this trouble, or was it always there? Or somebody died in your family? [Man says something. Spanish yogi talks to him and comments: “Always. Sentimento. Sensitive person”]
But why didn’t you marry? Did you put… no, left Nabhi.
Who divorces the husband, leaves their children and worried about Vietnam. First you must make… You marry, this is first.
Man: Perhaps.
Shri Mataji: Yes. You should first make your children, your wife happy. And get happiness from them. Create a nucleus in the family, that it’s a happy place. Then the happiness spreads from a beautiful nest. Like birds the happiness sings.
[Man asks a question in Spanish]
Shri Mataji: What is [it] he said?
Yogi translates: He is asking You whether, if a loved disciple of Yours would go astray, would You not suffer?
Shri Mataji: Would You not?
Yogi translator: [Would You not] suffer Yourself?
Shri Mataji: They don’t go astray. I know how to keep them with myself. I love them so much that they can’t find that love anywhere. Love is the greatest attraction and the most peace-giving.
If they go astray, I know methods of bringing them back. Because then they suffer and they learn a lesson. And then they come back. All right? So I don’t suffer, at all. I never suffer.
Now, I am a married woman myself. I’ve got two daughters, the elder is thirty-five years, younger is thirty-two. They are married, they have children. I look after my family. My husband is a very busy man. I look after his office people also, like my own, my family.
It’s very nice.
Now is it all right? You must have been hit in childhood by some sort of a sad shock. And that sad shock must have given this loftiness. Man: You are a good psychiatrist, psychoanalyst.
Shri Mataji: It’s a psychological…
[Aside] Don’t you worry! Hello!
You don’t worry, now I’m going home [indistinct], let it be, doesn’t matter. There’s no need to worry [indistinct].
Yogi (translates reply of man): He says, “I have had the opportunities to get rid of my problems but I have not done so”, then he asks why, “in the places where I have been. I could have taken some decisions”.
Shri Mataji: What is your sign? What is his sign of birth?
Man: Cancer.
Shri Mataji: Eh?
Yogi: Cancer.
Shri Mataji: Ah, that’s why!
Yogi: Water. Too sentimental.
Shri Mataji: For a Mother never problems are solved, because every time there are new problems you are facing. That’s the temperament of a Mother. Now see, I solved his problems, there he is. Now your problem is before me.
How can I solve all the problems? [Shri Mataji laughs] You see, Mother has always problems. Because, see, one is done, then She thinks another is to be done. Her mind is all the time at the people, who have yet suffering, you know. So She is getting more sufferings with Her when She is looking after this problem and that problem.
Cancer is a very good sign. My ascendant is Cancer. While where I was born, that place was just on Cancer, Tropic of Cancer.
Yogi (translates): Is it true that Cancer people know each other through their faces?
Shri Mataji: Yes, My ascendant is that. But you will be amazed, on Cancer there are very few places. Only – Mecca is on tropic of Cancer, Mecca.
So it is not easy to be a Mother.
[The man asks in Spanish why to be Cancer]
Shri Mataji: What does he say?
Yogi translator: Why to be Cancer?
Shri Mataji: Why to be Cancer? You didn’t want to be a Cancer?
Man: No. Yes.
Shri Mataji: You chose it. Tell it. You chose it.
Man: Yo (“I”)?
Shri Mataji: You made your own choice to be a Cancer before taking your birth.
Man: Yes?
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course, it’s your choice. Man: Other life?
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. You wanted to be. You are a seeker and seekers have their own choice. You choose your father, you choose your mother, you choose your place of birth, you choose everything.
Yogini [translates the man. He comments in Spanish that the day before he was surprised when he received the confirmation, as he always thought, that the truth resides in ourselves and we can tell good from evil simply meditating]: He says he is surprised today, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Hm?
Yogini: He is surprised today, he is surprised.
Shri Mataji: Surprised?
Yogini: Surprised.
Shri Mataji: Surprised.
Yogini: Surprised yesterday, because he always thinks about for each person what is right and what is wrong, through meditation, and he says You said that yesterday, and that’s why he is surprised.
Shri Mataji: Yes. You can say that.
Man: Yes.
Shri Mataji: So, now, if you can say that, now you must know how to support the right and how to destroy the bad. You must know all about it. Not only to feel bad about something but to do something about it. What’s the use of feeling bad? Isn’t it? You must solve the problem. Not to feel sorry, but to do it.
Does he suffer from cold? Does he suffer from cold? Ask him, does he suffer from cold. [Yogini: “Sorry?”] I said: does he suffer from cold? Cold, cold.
Yogini: Yes, he has problems here and the nose, Mother. But not cold, he said.
Shri Mataji: The same, that is the same. Right to the left. Is it all right, the Kundalini is here at the back, can you see that? Going up.
Move it with the light.
[Conversation with a yogi aside:
Yogi: Mother? We’re just going to pop out.
Shri Mataji: Hm?
Yogi: We’re just going to pop out to get something.
Shri Mataji: To the airport?
Yogi: No, just to buy something, Mother. We need to buy something.
Shri Mataji: All right. Go out. But what are you buying now? See, you get some sandwiches or something, don’t try too much… I won’t eat much.
Yogini: Very simple, very simple.
Shri Mataji: Eh?
Yogini: Very simple.
Shri Mataji: All right, it’s very simple, just very simple, eh? Something like pizza would be better, something like that. Pizza or sandwiches, that’s all. Simple things]
What is, he feels hot. He is feeling very hot.
Yogini: Yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: He’ll be all right. Put your right hand outside. Now. All right. Going out?
… He’s cooler now. You tell him you’ll feel cooler now.
Yogi: He is all right, though.
Shri Mataji: What did he say?
Yogini: He says where he’s feeling hot, he’s feeling hot, and I said there is the problem. But the negativity is going out.
Shri Mataji: Wherever I put my foot, is it hot also? [Yogini: “No, Mother. Before yes, but not now.”] Now better. Are you better now or not? [Man: “Sì” (Yes)] You are all going to be cured completely, and you are all going to be great sahaja yogis. All right. Now raise his Kundalini all of you, can raise it. Come along, all of you. See now how to raise it. Now tie it up. Not the other way round. Just take it straight on. Put it three times.
You have to learn now how to raise your Kundalini. Ricardo – Gerardo can tell them how to do it and how to take it. But just now you can tell them. Not both the hands, one has to be moved, one has to be kept steady. You show it.
One hand must be steady, like this. No, no, no, no, no, one hand should be steady, like this. And another hand should be moved. Don’t move both the hands: keep one hand moving like this, and another hand take it round.
The hands should be facing towards you, like this, straight.
Keep your eyes open.
Man: Is it how to raise your own Kundalini?
Shri Mataji: Yes, your own. Keep the hands – left hand is the desire.
Man: Left hand…?
Shri Mataji: Is the desire. Keep it straight. Now you are keeping the hand itself wrong, you see, keep the hand straight like this, straight.
Now move it straight. Put it like that. Now tie it up once. Then again you. See, it comes. Again you. Again now, yes. Again.
Now see, see your vibrations, are they improved?
Yogini: He is feeling tingling, he says, in his hands.
Shri Mataji: Tingling?
Man: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Where?
Yogi (translates): All the hand.
Shri Mataji: It’s all right, tingling shows there’s an obstruction, but you will clear out, don’t you worry. You put your right hand outside. Keep your eyes open. One hand towards me, left hand towards me, it is very important – right hand outside. It will all go out.
You just work out.
Put it at the back, hand at the back. Yes, that’s better. Now see. All this will flow away. All right? It’s going out, tingling is going out. It’s coming fast. No, no, but it should flow out. It should flow out.
Now. That’s the thing, this is a thing of feeling guilty, and the mantras that he has given you. We call it as left Vishuddhi.
If you catch this, you should go on saying, “Mother, I’m not guilty”. He is asking you better stand up, because this gentleman is also feeling his vibrations. Martin, he says… I think you stand up.
Yogi: That’s a blister he has and he didn’t understand.
Shri Mataji: Yes, that’s left Nabhi, I know, that’s what I told you, that this fellow is the worst of all. It’s there, you see, the Kundalini is there. Is a very bad … he lives on the street. But I’ll cure you, don’t worry.
Man: I follow them all.
Shri Mataji: Just imagine.
Man: Maharaji, Muktananda, Paramahansaji… Shri Mataji: Throw them in the sea.
(Other false guru’s name follows)
Shri Mataji: Throw them in the sea.
Man: But I feel, for Paramahansaji I feel love, no?
Yogini: Shhhh! (Then continues in Spanish: “Don’t speak about this…”)
Shri Mataji: This is bad. It’s very bad.
This is not good. This is not good. No, no, no sympathies.
How are you? All right? First class!
[Shri Mataji laughs] May God bless you. He has cleared out, see now his face, he was so much in trouble [Shri Mataji laughs]. Absolutely cleared out.
Man: Mother, will you see my son?
Shri Mataji: I’ll see also.
Now. How are you? Now you just say one thing, that: “Mother, I will marry”. Just say that. Say in your head. Say that.
Yogi (translates him): And if I don’t?
Shri Mataji: You will. Just say that to me.
Man: It’s very important for me to say? Because…
Shri Mataji: It’s very important for you: if you don’t say, you won’t be all right.
Yogini (translates): He says, “If I don’t feel in the woman, the right …”.
Shri Mataji: That is my, that is my job. That’s my job. Not yours. You just say. Don’t worry. [Shri Mataji laughs] You will have to get married. Just say it, what is there in saying?
Yogini: I said, Mother, all of us you have married, and we are very happy.
Man: It’s very, very difficult.
Shri Mataji: You just say it, in saying there’s no harm! Just say it! I’m not going to the court!
Man: Only “promessa”.
Shri Mataji: Eh?
Man: “Promessa”.
Shri Mataji: No, no, no promise, just say. You just say: “Mother, I will marry”. He’s so frightened of a marriage! [Shri Mataji laughs]. Why are you so frightened of a marriage?
Yogini: Mother, he says, “I can’t tell because it is very special and I am not feeling. He said I am not honest to You”.
Shri Mataji: No, no, better do it.
Yogi (translates): “How shall I say?”
Shri Mataji: You just say: “Mother, I would like to marry”.
[The man says the sentence in Spanish repeatedly]
Shri Mataji: He is very honest. All right.
Again. Again. Done, it’s done. Are you feeling cool now? You see, this is your problem. There’s nothing to be frightened of marriage, they are women, they are not devils. Now don’t think about it, don’t think. No, no, no, no, don’t worry, don’t worry, otherwise he’ll get a fright again [Shri Mataji laughs]. Don’t be frightened again, otherwise he gets a fright, you know? There is a centre for it, you see, in you: Gruha Lakshmi is the centre of the housewife.
Man: You are a good psychologist, Mother. I am a psychiatrist, psychologist of kids.
Shri Mataji: (laughing) There’s no psychology, it’s the centre, is the centre. You don’t have to do psychology for that, nothing is needed.
Man: I know, but…
Shri Mataji: Just you know that it is so. Ah!
I didn’t know he was not married. Ah! Psychologists break all the marriage.
Man: I am a child psychiatrist, myself.
Shri Mataji: Oh, is it?
Man: Yes. But…
Shri Mataji: Now you better learn Sahaja Yoga and learn a new psychology.
Man: Oh yes. I try to help them, sometimes they are broken already, but I try to help them.
Shri Mataji: We have one now in Portugal, somebody who has come with me, doctor of psychology, and also a doctor of – he’s a Jungian.
Man: I am a Freudian psychologist.
Shri Mataji: Oh! Horrible Freud!
Man: Was good in the beginning, but he could not go further, You know.
Shri Mataji: Horrible he is, he was very one-sided. He’s the one who destroyed. No no no no no, he was a devil.
Man: But…
Shri Mataji: He destroyed the people by his nonsense. He was a very half-baked people, Freud. Jung, Jung was…
Man: Jung was more initiated.
Shri Mataji: He was a realised soul.
Man: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Jung talked of the Universal Unconscious.
Man: Yes, he did. But, but…
Shri Mataji: Ah! Freud was, you know, very half-baked. Only he knew about psyche. He didn’t know about the right side, nothing.
Man: He was very honest scientist, Mother. But…
Shri Mataji: Very…
Man: But he couldn’t go beyond.
Shri Mataji: He didn’t obey…
Man: He was very neurotic man, he suffered very much because was he honest.
Shri Mataji: He never take… or took over his Spirit, he bothered more about matter.
We are not sex-points, are we?
Man: No.
Shri Mataji: He makes us into sex-points. Sex has nothing to do with our evolution, nothing.
Man: One drive. It’s the route of life but it’s not…
Shri Mataji: No no no no no no! It is not! You see, the sex has nothing to do with our evolution. Nothing!
Man: I mean, his Kundalini.
Shri Mataji: Kundalini is protected!
Man: Chitta Shakti.
Shri Mataji: Yes, Chitta Shakti is protected, only protected by Ganesha. And Ganesha is a holy thing.
Man: Ah, yes.
Shri Mataji: He missed the holy point. He missed the auspicious point. Sex has to be auspicious.
Man: Otherwise it’s… I know that.
Shri Mataji: That’s what. He is the one who introduced this perverted sex. He brought in all these dirty ideas. He himself was having relation with his own mother.
Man: With his who?
Shri Mataji: With his own mother, Freud. Incest.
Man: He theorised on incest a lot, yes.
Shri Mataji: It’s sinful, that means what: anti-God activity.
Ah, he’s better. He’s thinking – don’t think, don’t think, don’t think.
Yogini: He is very relaxed, Mother! He is very relaxed.
Shri Mataji: Exactly! With the idea of a wife you have relaxed, you better have her!
[Shri Mataji laughs, laughter]
All right. He is now happy. He is now happy. He is now happy. [Shri Mataji laughs, laughter]
What is that? What’s it? I’ve had that, just now. I had, just now. All right.
Now, Freud has done so many complications here, you see? Just come and see. See, his hair are standing, just see, his hair are standing up like that, because centre throws it away, see. They are just standing like that. Because, you see, this centre is very bad.
Man: It rises so many times to show that there’s electricity in my hair.
Shri Mataji: True.
Man: Yes, since I was a child.
Shri Mataji: He’s got it. But this, see, this thing is so much, so much bad. Bring the light.
Now forget that horrible Freud, all right?
Man: All right.
Shri Mataji: Don’t use him at all. According to me, he was a rakshasa. What is this science of sex? Nonsense. You see, animals do sex, they don’t have to go on to some science. What is the science of sex?
I just don’t understand. Nonsense it is. There is no science of sex. Animals, you see, they do sex without knowing any science.
There is no science of sex, nothing. Nothing. Sex anybody can do.
Is it? Nothing so special, what is? You are not sex-points, you are human beings.
[Man asks a question]
Sex is not bad, I didn’t say that.
Sex is all right, but with your own wife, in a proper way. No, not bad, not bad, no, no, never. In a correct way, with all due respect to yourself and with every holiness.
Not to fritter yourself away like an animal.
We are a human being.
You see, we don’t do sex on the streets even now, when we are so shameless.
We still don’t do that. Isn’t it?
So we have innately built within ourselves that sense of respect. We are human beings and glorified.
He doesn’t understand. You better translate. You say, what are you just saying?
Man: I feel both, cool and hot.
Shri Mataji: Yes. So it is there, hot is also there already existing. It’s just to be cooled down. All right? What’s he saying?
Yogini: Oh Mother, it’s difficult… he says, ‘Why the sex is not permitted in religion and for purification?’
Shri Mataji: No, it is not – in Sahaja Yoga, you can have sex with your wife. You should have. In Sahaja Yoga it’s not prohibited, all right?
No, not at all, it’s very good, all right?
Not in the religion, that is nonsensical religions.
Christ Himself attended a wedding.
Christ Himself attended a wedding, He supported. What more certificate you want?
Take out this.
Man: Please, please.
[A man asks in Spanish if he has karma]
Shri Mataji: I know, I know. No, no, I understand. Yes. You see, tell him that you… take it out, I think this is troubling you also. Just take it out. There’s no need.
Yogini: Mother, you have to leave at two o’clock. Would You like to eat lunch about half past twelve?
Shri Mataji: Two o’clock? No, I have to leave at one.
Yogini: The plane leaves at four.
Shri Mataji: No, no, at three o’clock.
Yogini: Is it? Ah.
Shri Mataji: You just find out from my ticket.
Yogini: What time does the plane leave?
Yogini 2: The plane leaves at four, Mother, so we’ll have to be at the airport at three. And we have to leave here the house with José at two.
Shri Mataji: Now, then one o’clock I’ll have. All right. Not much, little bit.
[End of audio]