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Conversation. Madrid (Spain), 3 June 1982.
See there is a difference between an incarnation and a realized soul. Now, incarnation among all these was Shirdi Sai Nath. Shirdi Sai Nath was. So only you must bow to an incarnation and not to somebody who is realized soul. You can tell. Later we can say at the time of Christ, John the Baptist was a realized soul only and Christ was an incarnation. And His mother was a Holy Ghost incarnation. She was Mahalakshmi. She was Radha. Dha means sustenance, sustenance of energy. So She was incarnation, He was, but not John the Baptist. John the Baptist is reborn now in India. He is announcing My coming also, but he is about 108 years of age. He is about 108, very old man. And his legs are broken, hands are broken. People have broken his hands and legs. And he moves on a tiger and lives in a very high mountain at the forest. He tells people about Me. I went to see him and cured him also. But he is a very hard task master.
He’s not very kind to Sahaja yogis. He told Me, “Anybody troubles You, send him over to me.” So I sent one man to him, because he was just troubling Me with questions, questions, questions. I said, “You go and see that guru.” And he felt very enamored; he thought he was a chosen one. And when he went there, you know, after a month he came back with his both legs absolutely dangling like this, and he travelling in the … some people brought him like that [inaudible] with his hands. He came back like that to Me. His legs were on his neck. So I asked him, I mean, really tears came into My eyes. I said, “What has happened?” He said, “Mother, this guruji threw me down the khud in the night.” I said, “He did personally?” “No, no no, no his tiger came and threw me down. And I fell down about fourteen feet and broke my legs. After three days he lowered some bread for me through a rope. And then after sixth day he brought me up.” Because, his family had reached there to find him out and he told that “Put these legs on your neck and go to your Mother.
She is the one who will cure you, She has compassion, I have none. And don’t say anything.” So I said, “What did you do? Why did he do this to you?” So he said, “I talked against You, saying that ‘Mother is giving realization to every Dick, Tom and Harry. She should not do this, giving realization to everyone; this is very wrong.’ I was saying like this to him.” Just imagine, to punish him like this for that! Another doctor, a poor thing. Now I sent him there, because he was also a little bit troubling Me. I didn’t know he would be so harsh. Now, this doctor, poor thing, he made him take a bucket of water, he gave a big bucket full of water to be carried to Shiva temple, about three miles walking. Asked him to bring everyday and wash the temple with a big bucket. Two buckets like this, carry. And three miles he had to walk up the hill to wash the temple. When he came to Me back, he was in bones, absolute bones. So he said that “This guru has made me work like this, You see, I had to clean the Shiva’s temple for a month.” So when I asked this guru, “Why did you do like that to him?” So he said that, “A donkey must do donkey’s work.” Like that, you know, and that’s very hard. Another Indian in America, I gave him realization in America. (Yesterday you were asking Me a question: if this power can be used for something bad So this is an answer to that.) So this one, like an Indian, you see, he wanted to make money out of vibrations. So he started an ashram. I didn’t mind the ashram, but I didn’t know he was making money out of it. Then he came back to Bombay to see Me. In Sahaja Yoga, Bombay people are great experts, Maharashtrians are great experts. So, they told Me, “Mother, what’s wrong with this fellow, he gives us giddiness?” So I asked him, “All right, let Me see your ashram brochure.” In that he had written “For vibrations one hundred dollars. Vibrations. For giving vibrations, one hundred dollars and for special vibrations something like 265 dollars. I said, “How much did you pay Me to get all this? Why did you do such a thing?” So he said to Me, “How am I to live?” I said, “You were a teacher, you become a teacher again. Why should you do this? You should teach children, that’s all, and make your own living. You can’t make money.” I said, “It’s all right if you have people there who are eating food.
You can take money for food and all that, it’s all right, but not for vibrations.” But he was very angry. He started shouting at Me, and one of the Sahaja yogis said, “Now we throw him down.” He got very angry. My boys, boys got very angry with him, they said, “We will throw him out.” So I said, “No, no, no (could be – let him be)” He said, “I am going to see some other guru.” There is another realized soul living in (sounds like Chandigarh /Calicut.) Another realized soul, another guru. He said, “I will see him”. Kardika he’s a realized soul I knew.. So I said, “All right, go and see.” And he came back about ten days from there. So he telephoned to Me. He said, “Mother, please forgive me for what I have said to You.” I said, “What happened?” So he talked to Me for an hour on the phone. He said, “When I went there to see him ,when I entered the gate he started throwing stones at me, and torrential, You know. And I ran away from there to the station. I was sitting there, and a man came to see me. And he told me that ‘The guru has sent me to say that you have quarreled with Mother and you cannot come to me after that. If you try to see me, I will hit you hard.” But he told to this man that “Please forgive me, I will go and ask forgiveness from Mother,” and all that, because he was very anxious to see this guru. So the guru called him and recited from Devi Mahatmyam something in Sanskrit. And the tape, he said, “You take it and make Mother listen to it.” And this fellow, I never saw him, because he tried to meet Me, just could not meet. He came to London, he could not meet. Somehow or other he can’t. You can’t make money out of love. This is Shri Ganesha, and Hitler used it the other way round, this structure.
This becomes a cross here. What happened, by the end of their war they got confused, Germans, they got confused, Germans you see, and what happened they started using these stencils for making swastikas. So they got confused. So in that confusion, later on they started putting the other way round. And they lost their war. That is the trick of God. I went to Berlin with My husband and I saw both the types of the marks. They were using tantrism from lamas, from all the types of lamas they used, all supra-conscious. We know, Indians know. Even in Argentina they are there. They are in Argentina helping the Argentineans, hiding themselves. They are helping the regime of Argentina. Because when I went to Argentina, I saw them doing the bhoot steps, when they’re parading. And I asked them, “How is it you are doing bhoot steps?” So they said that they got frightened.
I said “There are Germans, who are teaching you?” And in Argentina they have captured these people and they are building up very huge nuclear reactors there. Some of the German scientists are hiding and they want to use that base for destruction. But this Falkland will not stop it. No, they cannot, because now what has happened that they are exposed. Germans are exposed and also now Argentineans know that. See these are material things now, so they catch your negativity, material things. You see because you purchase the cross. You see, can’t purchase the cross. And while I’m the cross I can’t see the cross Myself. Resurrection is the message of Christ, not cross. I can’t see Him like that suffer. You see the people are also funny, they make out Christ lanky panky fellow. You have to do My work, all of you. —— And they told Me a fantastic thing and they said their Indians, the old Indians that they had, their old people, told them that a god from India that is Bharat( inaudible), country, called Vishnu came on a condor. Because you see they were on the right side they could see all these things. But you don’t have to see, you have to be. Seeing is not being. If you become the light, you don’t see the light. (Delete – Shri Mataji speaking about a personal problem to a yogini [Shri Mataji advises someone having a problem with the sinus]) And also tell her that in the night for one or two days, she should roast an onion, beat it out and foment this part, for two, three days. Wipe the thing with some towel and sleep off. For two, three days. Her sinus will clear out.) But people are still expecting Holy Ghost to come sometime. They don’t accept Me. They want to postpone the truth. They don’t want to accept the truth. That’s human nature. With the Pisces ending you come Aquaries. Pisces ending Aquaries. Aquarius is the kumbha, is the Kundalini. Aquarius is the kumbh. You see all these centers are related to our science. I was born on the twenty-first of March, at the equinox. It is zero, because at twelve o’clock exactly, zero, it is zero, absolutely at the zero. When you see the earth was absolutely nearest. You will see that much more now, gradually. When you will be given realization you will see that for yourself, so many, thousands. You will see all the miracles of God now. It is your own power that you will be feeling. I am just Mother. I want all My powers to be enjoyed by My children. You feel it on the head see, feel in on the head.
My feet are very powerful, very powerful. These are delicate, for delicate work, My hands. All together, if you see the whole Brahamanda, there are thirty-five crores deities and they all have powers. Crores are one hundred thousand, is crore, thirty-five hundred thousand, all right, is amazing you see, is amazing. It is true, it is true, it is not some sort of a hallucination. You feel it on your central nervous system. Kundalini cools you down. You should first make your children, your wife happy. And get happiness from them. Create a nucleus in the family, that it’s a happy place. Then the happiness spreads from a beautiful nest. Like birds the happiness sings. Sahaja Yogi: If some of Your disciples would go astray, would You not suffer? Shri Mataji: They don’t go astray. I know how to keep them with Myself. I love them so much that they can’t find that love anywhere. Love is the greatest attraction and the most peace giving. If they go astray, I know methods of bringing them back. Because then they suffer and they learn a lesson. And then they come back. All right. So I don’t suffer at all. I never suffer. Now, I am a married woman, Myself. I’ve got two daughters, the elder is thirty-five years, younger is thirty-two. They are married, they have children. I look after My family. My husband is a very busy man. I look after his office people also, like My own, My family. It’s very nice. For a mother never problems are solved, because every time there are new problems you are facing. That’s the temperament of a mother. Now see, I solved his problems, [inaudible].
Now your problem is before Me. How can I solve all the problems? You see, Mother has always problems. Because, one is done, then She thinks another is to be done. Her mind is all the time at the people, who are yet suffering, you know. She is getting more suffering when She is looking after this problem and that problem. Cancer is a very good sign. My ascendance is Cancer. Where I was born, that place was just on Cancer, Tropic of Cancer. You will be amazed on Cancer there are very few places. Only Mecca is on tropic of Cancer. So it is not easy to be a Mother. Sahaja Yogi: Why to be a Cancer? Shri Mataji: You chose it. You made your own choice to be a Cancer before taking your birth. Yes of course, it’s your choice. You wanted to be. You are a seeker and seekers have their own choice. You choose your father, you choose your mother, you choose your place of birth, you choose everything. There’s nothing to be frightened of in marriage, they’re women not devils. There is a center for it you see, Gruhalakshmi is the center of the house wife. There’s no psychology it’s the center, is the center. You don’t have to do psychology, for that nothing is needed. Just you know it is so. Psychologist break all the marriage. Seeker: I’m a child psychologist. Shri Mataji: Now you better learn Sahaja Yoga and learn a new psychology. We have one now in Portugal, somebody who has come with Me, doctor of psychology and also a doctor of …… he’s a Jungian. Seeker: I am a Freudian psychologist. Shri Mataji: Horrible Freud, horrible. He was very one-sided.
He the one that destroyed. He was a devil. He destroyed people by his nonsense. He was a very half-baked people, Freud. Jung was a realized soul. Jung talked to people of Universal Unconscious. Freud was very half-baked. Only he knew about psyche. He didn’t know about the right side. He never prayed over his Spirit, he bothered more about matter. We are not sex-points, are we? He makes us into sex-points. Sex has nothing to do with our evolution, nothing. Kundalini is protected, Chitashakti is protected, only protected by Ganesha and Ganesha is a holy thing. He missed the holy point. He missed the auspicious point. Sex has to be auspicious. He’s the one who introduced this perverted sex. He brought in all these dirty ideas. He himself was having relation with his own mother, with his own mother, Freud. Incest, it’s sinful (inaudible) anti-God activity. Now Freud had so many complications here you see. Just come and see.
His hair are standing, just see his hair are standing up like that because center (inaudible) you see. They’re just standing up like that. Because you see this center is very bad. Now forget that horrible Freud all right , don’t use him at all. According to Me, he was a rakshasa. What is this science of sex, nonsense? You see, animals do sex they don’t have to come to some science. What is the science of sex? I just don’t understand. Nonsense, it is. There is no science of sex. Animals, you see, they do sex without knowing any science. There is no science of sex, nothing. Sex anybody can do. Nothing so special, what is, you are not sex-points you are human beings. Sex is not bad, I didn’t say that. Sex is all right, but with your own wife, in a proper way. No not bad, not bad no, no never. In a correct way, with all due respect to yourself and in every holy.
Not to fritter yourself away like an animal. We are a human being. You see, we don’t do sex on the streets even now, when we are so shameless. We still don’t do that. So we have innately built within ourselves that sense of respect. We are human beings and glorified. In Sahaja Yoga, you can have sex with your wife. You should have. In Sahaja Yoga it’s not prohibited all right? No not at all it’s very good, all right. Not in the religion that is nonsensical religions. Christ himself attended a wedding, supported. What more certificate you want?
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi