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“England has to become Jerusalem” Public Programme, Reading (England), 22 June 1982.
It was very nice to come to Reading again, and to meet very nice people like your Mayor and another nice person who was interviewing me at the radio station.
I am discovering new talents in this place which is really historically very important.
But in the history of spirituality, England as a whole has to play a very, very important role, which perhaps English people don’t realise. William Blake has said that, that England has to become Jerusalem. It has to become a Holy land and you all have to become holy people. He is not a liar, he wouldn’t tell you a lie. People can say that he was a visionary and he visualised things beyond his foresight. That’s not a fact, because about Sahaja Yoga he has written very vividly, clearly, as to where I’ll be staying since my arrival in England, where our ashram is going to be. It is so beautifully done that I feel this land has something special about it to produce, or to create, such great poets, such great seers.
India of course is a country of yoga, no doubt. But there also we had a great poet, about the same time as Blake, maybe a little earlier, Gyaneshwara. He did write about Kundalini. He also described the times of Sahaja Yoga by saying that: at that time, the people who are in darkness, the people who are blind, will see light. He’s also gone further to say that: those people who will receive light, will be able to enlighten other people. But William Blake has very clearly said that men of God will become prophets, and these prophets will have powers to make others prophets. And this is the test that you should put to everything: “Have I become a prophet?”
I mean, it’s all right there are many people who are around, who are selling their things. I don’t know what they are doing to attract more people. Like the mayor asked me that, “As your work is so fantastic, you must have been receiving thousands of people!” I said, “No I don’t. Sometimes I receive five or sometimes ten!” He was amazed! He said, “How can that be?” I said, “It’s true! I receive very few people to come to my programme. And if they come and stick on for a while, they get Realisation all right. But there are very few who come. He was quite amazed. He said, “Really? But I am surprised, you don’t charge any money, there’s no membership. I mean it really shows that it is something Divine. And still, how is it few people come to you?” I said, “I will ask the same question to you, because I don’t understand human beings! You better answer me that why so few people come and take advantage of this Sahaja Yoga which gives you the power that is lying within you, which gives you what you have already existing within you, which is your own, it’s your own property. Still they don’t come, even if you tell them [that] freely you are going to be given all your bank balances, please come, please come, but they don’t come.” So I said, “Instead of asking me this question, for the first time, let me ask you this question. I can’t understand.”
But in Indian villages it’s a different thing: where the people come in thousands. One of the reasons may be that the people do not know much about Kundalini, they are naïve about that. And they do not know what it means by the word ‘Self-Realisation’: what it means, what is a Self, and what should happen to us. Perhaps that may be the reason: a sort of ignorance about it.
But despite all that, this word ‘Self-Realisation’ has been used since long by many marketeers, and nobody has been able to give it. Now if somebody says, “Yes it can happen to you, just it can happen.” I think there should be real interest. But still I cannot explain why is it that few people come, and those who come also do not stick on, they have no patience.
“But with other gurus?” He asked me. I said, “No, there are many [that] go: thousands and thousands.” There’s one fellow whom the British people have given 58 Rolls Royces, and then they gave him a 59th one because he would not come without getting a Rolls Royce from them. So they starved themselves for one year, and gave him the 59th Rolls Royce! And how many people must have done it? Fifty-thousand people collected that money to give it to this fellow to come down here! Already now that he has 59th, I think he must be waiting for the 60th. And I wouldn’t be surprised that they will be again collecting money for him.
One must understand that you cannot pay for God. You cannot buy God by giving him a Rolls Royce. He doesn’t understand this Rolls Royce, He doesn’t understand money, He doesn’t understand bank. He doesn’t know the mint. He doesn’t know that you are having a new system, of this paper money. He’s not aware of these things. But somehow we are so much used to these mundane things, regular things, that we personally, all of us, feel that if it is going to be God, He has to be just like us: there should be an organisation, there should be a chairman, there should be a vice-chairman, there has to be a secretary, and all this organisation must be there. And there only if we go, then it’s all right, then we are safe, we are secure, because we are used to it.
But God’s laws and God’s domain is very different from what we understand. We have never felt his love. We have been always working, with all our organised things because we were insecure about something. Every institution is for some kind of an insecurity. Because we are insecure, we think something is going to fall upon us, something horrible is going to happen, that’s how we form a thing. Otherwise our children may be spoiled or our old people may die, or something may happen, we form an organisation. This is not believing in God.
Secondly we form, also, organisations because we hate. But we have never seen the Power of Love, which is the most beautiful, blissful and smoothly working: like a flower becoming a fruit. Have you ever seen a flower becoming a fruit? Nobody has seen it. How slowly it becomes! Have you ever seen a bud opening into a flower? You have to put a slow motion camera to catch that slow movement. All that is done by this great Power of God, this Divine Power which is called as ‘Brahma’ in Sanskrit language. And to know that Brahma is the idea behind Self-Realisation. It is all-pervading, It is working everywhere, but we cannot feel It and we have to feel That. And how to feel it? How to know that? The only way is to get yourself connected with your Self which connects you to that All-pervading Power, and it starts flowing through you.
If you learn the ways and methods you can manoeuvre it, you can use it and you can give it to others also. It’s a very simple thing like putting a connection. Like you come in the room: if you have to put on the lights, you just have to switch on, it’s like that. It’s very simple. But when you switch on the light, you must know that there’s a very huge organisation behind this little switch. In the same way, behind all this there’s a very great organisation of God Almighty, which we have not known: we have just heard about God, “There is God, and let’s pray to God,” All that. But where is He? What is He? And what are we? We have never known that. So first time you get connected with His Power.
Now about Spirit: I mean, in English language ‘spirit’ is used for so many things! They will use it for a dead body – it’s a spirit. They’ll use it for also spirits: alcohols. ‘Spirit’ for Atma. But where I am talking now it is about the Atma: the Spirit, which is the reflection of God Almighty within us, which is the witness, which watches every moment, every action of ours. And it stays there till it enjoys.
To understand the Spirit, we have to know its nature, what is the nature of the Spirit is, and then, when we get enlightenment, what happens to us.
Now here you have seen three powers, as they have shown you. The first power is on the right hand side, is the power of action. I mean the first one is the power of desire which is on the left hand side, the second one is the power of action, and in the centre is the power of, what we call, the sustenance which gives you our evolution. So we have three powers. All these three powers act within us.
For example the first power of desire. The first power of desire within us acts in such a manner that we start desiring for things. Actually the whole universe is created [and] out of the universe, this beautiful thing like human being is created. And this power that has created this special thing called ‘human being’ is the residual power that resides in the triangular bone, for the ultimate desire to be one with the Divine. But it has not yet manifested, so that is why it is called as a residual power. It has not yet manifested because we have not yet become one with the Divine.
So that power is still sleeping within us, that’s why they call it a sleeping Kundalini. But that desire is within us, and that drives us to all kinds of seeking: we make mistakes, we do all kinds of wrong choices — doesn’t matter — everything can be forgiven. But she resides in the triangular bone waiting for a chance when she could be awakened by somebody who has the authority to awaken.
As he told you just now that it’s an actualisation, you cannot just go to a church, and somebody puts the hand on your head and he says, “All right, I have baptised you.” This is only just a false certificate, you know that. It’s a false certificate. But when this power is manifested, when you become one with the Divine, when yoga, the union, takes place, then only we can say that Kundalini has manifested itself: means your desire to be one with the Divine has been manifested.
So now there are four powers I have told you about: one is the power of desire with which we desire other things. Like we may desire to have a chair. So what we do, if there is some steel which is dead, we make another dead stuff like called a ‘chair’, which is of steel — another dead. We sit on it [and] we start become habituated with this: means a part of us is deadened, because we can’t sit without a chair, the chair sits on our head. People carry chairs with them, because they just can’t sit without the chairs.
Like that the matter starts fighting your Spirit, and starts giving you habits. The another thing of matter is that it never gives you joy.
For example, you want to have a table, all right, then you want to have a chair, then you want to have a car, then you want to have a helicopter, and never happy! So, wants in general are never satiable; is a principle of economics. Why? Because matter cannot give you satisfaction, that’s why. It just plays with you. You like one thing, you jump to it, you like another thing, you jump to another one.
Now this matter within us is created by the right side, that is the power that comes to us from five elements. And these five elements, when they are not enlightened do not give joy. They are within us, we use them. Supposing somebody thinks that, “If I go to race and if I win a big amount of money I’ll be happy.” But you go and see the person after six months, you will find that he’s the most unhappy person ever known. Because money is a headache, house is a headache. Anything that you own is a headache. It is better that others should own it and you should enjoy; that’s a better way of looking at things. But we think that possession is something that we can really enjoy, which is not true, because we are not going to take anything with us.
Now when these five elements act upon us, what happens to us? What do we develop? We develop, in the subtle way, the attention. Say there is something, a matter, here, my attention can be drawn to it. If there is something material, my attention can be drawn to it. But supposing something is in the ether, I cannot see it. Something that is not material I cannot see it. So the attention cannot be drawn. That’s how our attention is created by these five elements, within ourselves.
Now this attention that we have: naturally because it is created by the material things, in the sense that it is created by the causal of these elements, our attention goes to material things. It’s natural, because it is created by that, isn’t it?
Our attention is outside. If I say, “Put your attention inside!” How can you? I mean there’s no way of putting it inside: it’s an impossible situation. Because anything that happens outside, our attention goes there. Something material, something substantial we see, and then our attention goes to that.
But how can you put your attention inside, because we are lost, we do not know where to go, how to find it, how to put our attention inside.
So this attention is within us, and when the Kundalini rises, then the attention is drawn in, because of the happening. That’s why a happening is necessary. Supposing suddenly you are listening to me, and something falls down, your attention will go to it. That is why a happening takes place, that this Kundalini rises and she attracts the attention inside.
But actually when she touches the Spirit, what happens to the attention itself? The attention becomes enlightened. Now what is that? Attention becomes enlightened, means what? Means that this attention has a light. Now supposing you have an attention which has a light, what should happen? That you look at anyone, you should be able to know that person in and out. That should be the first thing, isn’t it? If your attention has the light, you should be able to see through that person just like an x-ray you should know where the problem is.
Then, if your attention is enlightened, you should be able to help that person also, with your attention, by paying [attention]. Enlightenment is the enlightenment by the Divine Power of love. So if you pay attention to somebody, that love must act. Otherwise it is just like any other attention: You pay attention to this, nothing happens. You pay attention to that, nothing happens. You pay attention to anyone, nothing happens. But when you are enlightened, then your attention is enlightened. And you will find, after Sahaja Yoga, if you pay attention to someone, you can cure that person. If you have reached a certain stage of maturity in Sahaj Yog.
Like there was one of the first Sahaja yogis in England who got his Realisation, who is here I think. He was a little doubtful. And he said, “Mother you said that our attention gets enlightened: how are we to know about other people?” I said, “Very easy! About whom do you want to know?” He said, “I want to know about my father.” I said, “All right.” His father was in Scotland. “You put your hands and think of your father. Just think.” He started a burning here. Now these are the centres for your father (right hand) and these are the centres for your mother (left hand). And this started burning. Now this finger denotes this centre (Vishuddhi). So I told him he must be down with very bad bronchitis. He said, “How can there be telecommunication?” This is enlightenment, into a new world of telecommunication! I said, “All right you ring up your father!” He rang up his father. And the father never came to the phone. And his mother said, “Your father is down with very bad bronchitis.” Now sitting down here you can give cure to that. Now it’s not a cock and bull story, I must tell you. It is so fantastic, that people can’t believe it. But you can.
But you have to have certain maturity to do that. If your light is a little hazy, then it doesn’t work out. I mean, you can cure people, sitting down here, sitting down in London: I should say, most humbly I can cure them; I have done it. And some other people have done it also.
So what happens is that the attention which goes there…Now for example, our attention is dead in a way. If it goes there, what happens? Only thoughts start coming to us. On the contrary this [thought] is more dominating [to us] than ourselves. Because as soon as we look at something, some thought starts coming. I mean, you can’t look at anything without some thoughts coming into your head. I mean, imagine the domination of the matter on us, that everything gives us a thought!
While, when you look at a thing, when you are a realised-soul, then this attention acts. If it is a living thing, you can see the action working on that. But if it is dead, then what happens? Then you become thoughtless. Say you see a beautiful painting, you see a beautiful painting: now there is no thought in your mind; so all the creation of that painting just starts pouring in you as joy. You feel that joy just pouring into you, because there is no thought in between. Otherwise normally we’ll think, “Who has painted this picture?” “Who has done this?” How much they must have paid?” That’s the first thing! First question would be how much money it must have cost! Then second would be, “Who is the artist?” All these questions actually paralyse the beauty, the art, the creation of that painting.
Like [on] a wave-free surface of some lake, you can see the complete image, the reflection, of the surroundings of that lake. The complete creation, the complete joy comes to us. In the same way you become absolutely thoughtless. You see something and you become absolutely thoughtless, because the joy is so complete, that you just get stunned and the whole thing starts pouring into you, like showers of joy. It’s an experience which you cannot have before Realisation. It’s only possible after Realisation: that you can enjoy your attention. And it is such a joker. Your attention plays tricks and tells you so many things about other people.
Like, I was coming and I said, “Now let us see. This gentleman, I have to meet him. Let me see his vibrations.” I said, “Now. His vibrations: this is catching.” All right, what does that mean? A problem with his wife: either he has no wife, or if he has a wife, it’s a wrong relationship, or maybe there’s a problem with the wife. This is wife’s [centre]. And we discovered it was so. But because I knew about it, I didn’t touch that point. Because if you say that, you will have it! So better not say that point. You know already about the gentleman, what sort of a problem he has, so better not touch that point and gradually try to remove it.
Like that, it is so easy, after Realisation, to know about others. Like a gentleman came to see me, he was an Indian and he knew that a person who is a seeker is not supposed to drink, when you come at least to a holy person. But he gave up his drinking: for about eight days he did not drink, he had a bath everything; he had a nice mouthwash with everything and he came and saw me. And I said, “You have to give up your alcohol completely.” He said, “Mother how do you know this?” I said, “I know!” Because the centres that are catching in him are only possible if you are a drunkard. And I said, “You have been a drunkard, and that is why it has been there.” He agreed that, “I was. But eight days back I gave it up. I said, “Eight days makes no difference! I know that you have been a drunkard, and you’ll have to give up that gradually.” He said, “I will Mother, I promise you.” But this is really surprised him: how did I know about it?
So much so that once a lady came to see me, and I found that her right hand here, was completely charring, and this was all catching. So I asked her, “What is your relationship with your father?” Especially this finger. “Oh,” she said, “what has it to do with it?”. Normally girls in India are very attached to their fathers and, it’s a very good relationship. I said, “There must be something wrong, otherwise you can’t get such horrible feelings about it.” “Yes but how do you know Mother?” I said, “I know, you better tell me.” “Oh, it’s all right, it’s all right. We have a good relationship, nothing wrong, this, that.” I said, “Really?” She said, “Yes, we have no [problem]. I mean, it’s perfectly all right!” And she went away. I was wondering; I knew she was telling me lies. Just after that, her mother came in, and her father and they said, “Oh that was our daughter who had come to see you.” I said, “Really?” He said, “Do you know this girl has filed a [law] suit against me, her father?” “Really?” “Yes! And on wrong basis. Under the advice of a very wrong person. Her husband is abroad, and some wrong person has put ideas into her head, and she has filed a suit against me.” “Aaaah!” I said, “See! That’s what happened!”
So the attention gives you all the information: when it is enlightened. It corrects the problems. And of all the things it warns you, it warns you beforehand. For a Sahaja Yogi, supposing a Sahaja Yogi is misled, he loses the way, then it is accepted that we have to go that way, there is something we have to do. And just he goes that way and he finds the thing that he has lost for a long time, or he meets a friend whom he has to meet or some address that he had, he gets it. We don’t mind getting lost or anything because you find that this was necessary to go that way to find something.
It’s so interesting and so interwoven. And sometimes you start understanding, after some time, that there are angels who are looking after you. Definitely there are angels who are guiding us. Every moment, they are there, and taking our attention to things which are important. Because of Spirit’s quality, to be collectively conscious, our attention itself becomes collectively conscious.
The priorities change. The priorities change so much. Like I was going in Kashmir one day, in a car, and suddenly I told my husband, that there is tremendous vibrations in this place. So he asked the driver: he said, “Is there any temple here?” He said, “No, it’s a wilderness. There is no temple, nothing!” I said, “About two, three miles maybe. Let’s go ahead.” So he said, “No there’s some muslims staying here. There’s no temple, no question of having a temple.” I said, “Is there a mosque?” “Oh,” he said, “Yes. There is a mosque of Hazratbal!” One hair of Mohammed Sahib is kept in that mosque. And I felt the vibrations at least four, five miles away from it! Just imagine! And when we came about three miles, I could just tell him how to go there. And only one hair was emitting [so many] vibrations.
So the whole priority, the attention, goes to things which have good, Divine vibrations. It is not bothered about things which have no good vibrations. Whatever has good vibrations, it will go to that. Like a person who is a holy person, he touches anything, it vibrates. He touches water, it vibrates. Anything you touch, anything you feel, it vibrates it. For example, water, if you vibrate it, it can be a medicine. River Ganges is nothing but vibrated water! You get vibrations from that. These vibrations are Divine vibrations, are the vibrations of the power of love of God.
It is something so much out of the blue, that suddenly if you hear about these things, it sounds quite odd and fantastic But it is not at all to Indians, they know about all it. This knowledge has not come to us. But in the Bible, Christ has said that, “Your hands will speak.” Your hands will speak: that means in your hands you will be feeling it. He said it very clearly. Your hands will speak: that is what should happen to us. That our hands should speak, means they should communicate to us what they have to communicate. Because all the centres are represented in our hand. As shown there you can see all the centres are on the left hand side and right hand side, you can see very clearly how these centres are denoted on our hand.
And once you start feeling them, if you know the decoding of it, you can immediately say what the other person is suffering from, what you are suffering from. And then you have to learn how to correct them, those problems of the another person.
So the first thing that happens to you [is] that your attention becomes enlightened.
This attention is so wonderful, is so joy-giving, it’s so humorous, because you become like a witness; the whole thing becomes a joke. You see people seriously running up and down to do something, and you just don’t understand. And you ask them, “What’s the matter with you?” “Oh, you don’t know? It’s very important, very important!” “Yes what?” “I have put all my money for the race.” And he comes back, head hung! “What happened?” “I lost all my money!” The way he was running, the way he is coming back, is a big joke. But to him it’s not: he becomes serious, sometimes he becomes involved into in, sometimes elated, but you are just enjoying the whole joke. The whole tragedy and comedy of life you enjoy, like a spectator. You become the spectator: you are no more worried, upset or in tension.
Actually I have seen people who are very hot tempered become so placid and so sweet and so poised. It’s surprising how they change, because they have got the balancing point, the absolute point. This is what happens to your attention when you get Realisation.
But then what happens to your awareness, which you get from the central path of your evolution? For example animals have an awareness. Also we have an awareness. We have awareness much higher than that of animals. Some people say, “Yes we can play tennis, you see.” that’s a higher awareness than animals. But some people cannot play tennis or understand it. But one awareness human beings have, definitely — whatever they may be, at whatever level — that they understand what is dirty, what is filthy. They can smell it; animals can’t. You take a horse or a dog through a dirty length, it will just walk like a king, as if it’s leading a parade for the queen — it has no problems. But for human beings we just can’t do it! We have to put something to cover our nose. So, like that, we have many other things which we have achieved as human beings. We have sense of colour, we have sense of beauty, we have sense of balance. We have so many things, which dogs may not have, horses may not have, dolphins may not have. They are so close to us — they live with us — but they may not have those senses as we have.
But now, what happens to human awareness, at this stage, is that this human awareness suddenly jumps up into a new dimension. You become collectively conscious. You become! Again, I say. It’s an actualisation: it happens to your awareness. You just become collectively conscious. Means, little children, today Olympia, she was interviewing me, she came and she put her fingers in her ears, because the lady who was talking to me had a problem in her throat. Perhaps maybe she has to use her throat too much also, or maybe something else. So she put her fingers in her ears. You see, this is the mantra we use “Allah hu akbar” by putting fingers. The little one, she is very small, about two years of age, she just put in. But still she felt she has not helped me fully, so she put both her fingers in the mouth to suggest that please look after the lady, she’s got this problem.
The concern and the feeling that you get for another person is so tremendous, so tremendous, that people can’t understand but it’s very simple [to explain], because if you become part and parcel of the person, how can you not have concern? I mean who is the other? The problem is [that] now, supposing you are sitting before me, and you have a problem in your stomach, I’ll also have a little problem. And I’ll be so concerned about that problem that it is as if in my stomach that problem is existing. It is like that. The awareness becomes so collectively conscious that it becomes part and parcel of you. Who is the other? The feeling of otherness goes away.
Now people talk big things like, “We are all united,” “We are all brothers and sisters, and this and this.” You must have heard all these speeches. And when it comes to war, they’ll fight. But in this, you cannot fight, because who is the other? You can’t fight your nose. You can’t fight your hand. You can’t fight your fingers. Nor do you help anyone. You don’t help anyone. Because supposing this finger is in trouble and this hand presses it, does it help it? Nothing! This is neither obliged, nor this is helping. This is one. That feeling of oneness — that you are part and parcel of the whole is — established. Because of that feeling, that is such a tremendous feeling that you are part and parcel of the whole, that you get cured. The curing comes because of that innate understanding by your being, that you are not alone: you are part and parcel of the whole, you are a cell of the whole body of God, or you are a microcosm of the macrocosm.
This is not just a psychological or a rational thing, but you just become. You just become, you can’t help it. And when you are that, you just don’t feel you are helping anyone. It’s just like one cell acting for another cell. The whole thing works in such a homogeneous way: no fighting, no quarrelling. On the contrary, you enjoy each other! You just love each other. And you just see the good points of another person. You don’t see the bad points. You forget the race, you forget all creeds, and everything you forget. Because a nose doesn’t say, “I am higher than the hands!” Does it say? Or the feet do not say, “I am lower than the hands!” They all are required. Supposing there is something wrong with the feet, you will just try to help. Something wrong with the nose, you’ll help your nose. You don’t discriminate in your body, do you? In the same way, we do not discriminate.
Once you become realised-souls, whether you are from India or from Asia, or from any other place, from England, America, any place you may be. You may be Chinese: every sort of faces that we have, in the cross section of Sahaja Yogis! You will find all kinds of people are there, and they all love each other. You must see the way when these people from England went to India, to the villages where I worked: the villagers just grabbed them! And they were so happy: they said, “First time we are meeting our brothers and sisters!” And these people were just enjoying them, and they all started dancing. Of course they are very light-footed and they wanted all these people to dance with them. And though the Britishers are not so light-footed as they are, so they found it rather difficult. So they made them jump, jump, jump! And now they have become good dancers too; and they all dance together and sing together, in complete joy and understanding.
The whole attitude towards life changes. You become really a princess in the sense that you don’t need anything — there is no dearth. If there is a dearth then you are beggar. If there is no dearth, you can sleep here, you can sleep in a palace. If you want you can get a Rolls Royce or if you want, you can walk. What’s the harm? What’s the difference? Because the joy comes from your Spirit, not from outside things. The whole idea of comfort changes. The whole idea of luxury changes. It’s all completely changed because you enter into this new dimension. And that’s what happens to your awareness: that you become collectively conscious. The enlightenment gives a human awareness a new dimension by which you are collectively conscious.
Now emotion gives us happiness: if you love somebody you feel happy, and [if] you meet that person you feel happy. And you want to bestow all your love on that person. If your children are there, you want to love them, and give them love. But before Realisation, this joy is limited. For example, husband wife relation I can understand. But about children, like in India: they love their children so much that they will even sell their country for their children’s sake. The love becomes like a possession. It becomes a love hate relationship. They love so much that they come to hatred. It’s a funny thing but it happens. Why? Because it has limitations. Love has limitations: it’s not infinite. But when you get your love enlightened you get joy. There’s no material given thing, just you enjoy each other. In Calcutta first time on my way to America I had gone. I was staying in a hotel and there were five or six other Sahaja Yogis staying with me, in other rooms. And one gentleman came to see me, and he fell at my feet, and tremendous vibrations he had. And they all rushed: “Who has come? Who has come?” I said, “Why?” “Tremendous joy started flowing on our head, Mother! Who is at your feet?” They all rushed to me. I said, “See this one.” “Haahh!” They all stood, ‘Haahh! What enjoyment! What enjoyment!” He was enjoying. They were enjoying him. This is the first time you enjoy human beings. Because you can feel the vibrations of a person.
What a beauty [a] human being is, what a glory he is, what a blessing he is, what a creation he is, you realise only after Realisation. Before that, you judge him — “Oh he has got long hair,” “He has got red hair,” “He has got long nose” — All that. But then you just see him in a subtle way. What he is, is his vibrations. And so many people I have seen — Sahaja Yogis also — if they get somebody they’ll all rush there. The fellow is there, and they are all taking vibrations, for half an hour and I am tired. I say, “Now finish it off!” But no they are just sucking it like a child.
First time you enjoy human beings — the joy which has not duality. Joy does not have happiness and unhappiness. Happiness comes to us when our ego is pampered. Unhappiness comes to us when our ego is damped. It is something different. We are not our egos, we are our Self. And when Self enjoys something, it enjoys it. There is no remorse, there is no duality about it, there is no unhappiness. So joy is a complete thing. It cannot be described. It is just to be experienced, and enjoyed within ourselves.
And that’s what happens to us. When we get our Realisation our idea of love changes. Like, you say, “Oh I love this person only.” Like your husband is there, you have to love him like a husband. You don’t love everybody like a husband. Your sister is there, you love her like a sister. But you think all others as your sisters. Then you love your brothers; you think them to be your brothers. You love all of them. The love spreads, like that. It does not rest in one place. It does not stagnate, it does not coagulate. Supposing in a plant, sap is rising and it goes to one flower because it loves it, and settles down there. The tree will die and the flower will die. So the love we have before Realisation, is like that love, which dies ultimately or creates problems and it dies. But love after Realisation is a love that emits, just flows. You don’t get anything. “What do you get?” people ask me. I mean my husband is in a different line and I have a double life, and all my friends ask, “What do you get out of it?” I say, “I am not here to get. I get out something from me. It’s just to give, is to enjoy.”
As I told your mayor today, “Your politics will be solved. You’ll have no parties.” He said, “How can that be?” I said, “See now: I have supposing all the powers, so I am a capitalist. But I must share, so I’m a communist. I have to be a pure communist and a pure capitalist. So how can I have two parties when both the things exist within me?” That’s how you solve your politics.
How do you solve your economics? The whole transaction areas and all those things come from a false idea that matter can give us happiness: it cannot. Only the matter that has a certain coefficience, which gives vibrations, is the only thing that gives you joy.
Now we don’t know if there is such matter around. For example somebody will say Stonehenge. I mean, it looks funny with the druids. Of course they don’t know anything, I agree. But it is not [funny], because Stonehenge is created by the Mother Earth. It has vibrations. They can’t feel anything, they are standing there, singing songs, this, that. Somebody must have felt in their forefathers. There are many places where you get vibrations from the Mother Earth, so many. It is written in the Bible, in the ten commandments, only that whatever is created by the Mother Earth or by the sky should not be reproduced by human beings and worshipped. But there are many things which have come out of the Mother Earth. But unless and until you have vibrations, how will you know? You don’t know the truth.
So in the human awareness, to know the truth, is very relative. You will say that, “How is it that this person is fake and that person is not fake?” “This is truth that is not truth?” There’s no way of knowing it. Unless and until you get to the Absolute point, how will you know the relative?
So when you get your Realisation, you can ask, “Is he a real man?” If he is, you will get vibrations. If he’s not, then, you might even get blisters; vibrations will stop maybe; little bit blisters you might get, if he is not a right type of a person. If somebody is obstinate, you will get indication. If somebody is suffering from some possession, you will get indication. If somebody is mentally mad, you will know. It’s very, very systematic, and very scientific. God’s laws never fail, [are] very attentive, and everything that you know through it is absolute and correct. Only thing is you have to learn: you have to train up your mind to understand these different things. But small children are much cleverer than bigger people; because you see, they have so many hangups, they have so many complications, they rationalise everything. Children will just say this: “This is this!”
Now people think that, “How can it be free?” How can it be with money? I ask the other question! We cannot think of these things in the terms that I’d say [is] Divine, because you have never known it before. How much money did Christ get? We have a life here of Christ: how much money did he take? Now Christianity as such — they asked me a question today — I mean it cannot deliver the goods! They are Christians, they go to church, but is their life Christian? Churches cannot deliver the goods. But that doesn’t mean that you run away from Christ. You can run away from that kind of things, but not from Christ, because Christ exists.
He definitely exists within us, and is a special person because he’s placed at a very pivotal point, between the centre of the optic chiasma, where the pituitary and pineal body are there and he controls our ego and superego. And when the Kundalini rises, then Christ is awakened, and he sucks all of our karmas, all of our sins. That’s what he said — that he has suffered for our sins. They will say Christ, in the church they say it, and then why do they ask you to suffer? If Christ has suffered, why should we suffer anymore? There should be no sufferings anymore, just enjoy and rejoice. He’s done everything for us. Or do you want him to suffer more?
There are Jews who said, that, “We don’t believe in Christ, and we have to suffer.” Already, “Have Mr Hitler for you!” If they want another one, they can have another one. And go on with your suffering. It is high time that they accept Christ and give up their sufferings, otherwise, they are putting their sufferings on other people.
There is no suffering needed anymore. It’s a funny idea, I don’t understand, why people say you must suffer to become spiritual? Who has given you these ideas?
Actually among Hindus it was believed that, our karmas, we have to pay for it. Yes, all right. Up to what point? Till somebody called Mahavishnu comes in: that is Christ. He’s called as ‘Mahavishnu’. All the signs and symptoms of Christ are described as Mahavishnu in the Devi Mahatmyam, but who reads that? I mean Christians will only read Bible! Will they read something else? So they never knew. And when the missionaries went from here, they never talked about Christ like that. “Oh,” they just said, “you’d better get converted.” They used to brand everyone: Christian, Christian, Christian, Christian. They would put a loaf of bread in the water, and say that, “This is the beef, and all of you have become now Christians!” So by villages they became Christians. Imagine this kind of a Christianity, how far is it going to go? They never said that Christ is the one who was Mahavishnu because they never knew. Until I told them that it was he, the Mahavishnu who came, who has come already. And he is going to suck our [karmas]. So this is done, then what? Why to worry about karmas? [They are] finished! All our karmas are over.
But here we have Christ, but we don’t know his essence. We don’t know what is he there for, what was the need for him to crucify himself. It was just to create a tremendous Deity within us, that is Christ, who will suck our up our [bad] vibrations. Now we have many Jews who are our disciples. They will jolly well have to accept Christ, because Kundalini does not rise unless and until you accept it here. But even those Christians who don’t accept, say Moses, or Jehovah: they have to accept that Jehovah is sitting here (above Agnya). That’s the Viraata. That’s the Akbar: that, you have to see for yourself when the Kundalini rises. You’ll be amazed, unless and until you say Lord’s prayer, it won’t rise above this (Agnya), if it is stuck there. And all the Christians have this problem. You will be surprised that Christ himself is angry with them. You have to say Lord’s prayer. That’s why he said, “You will be calling me ‘Christ, Christ,’ and I won’t recognise [you].” Just imagine! Then you have to say Lord’s prayer in front of some holy personality [so that] he forgives you, and then the Kundalini rises.
Just imagine — he was the one who was the controller of ego, he is the one who sucks our ego, and see the Christian nations: if there is one thing they cannot get out is their ego. Now they are realising it, no doubt. But still to get out of it, they have to fight it; and the more you fight it, it becomes like a balloon — big, big, big, big, big. But by fighting it you cannot get out of it. Only by rising through the central path you can suck it, through the awakening of Christ, and you get your Realisation as cool breeze coming out of your head.
But when it happens also, as I said, people do not know what it is — these Brahma Shakti or what you call this cool breeze of the Holy Ghost, what it is, because they didn’t allow Christ to live long. He lived for hardly three and a half years to talk about it. I mean the way they treated him was really so atrocious and so cruel. To whom could he talk, to these fishermen? About Kundalini? I mean they made it impossible!
Same with Mohammed Sahib: Arabs could not accept Mohammed at all. And they have not yet accepted him, the way they are crucifying him everyday. He couldn’t tell people about it. But he did promise that it will happen to you. He’s promised that a Comforter will come, so that you will know my Father forever — means you will get your Self-Realisation. He promised it. But how will you make him out? How will you make out the Comforter? How will you find out, if Christ comes in?
Now some ‘christ’ is being announced. It’s a big joke. You’d better tell this ‘Mr Christ’ to walk on the water. And you’ll find him out! We had one in India. He told that he is going to walk on the water. And mad people from America, they came with televisions, telescopes, and all Indians were there to see the fun of the whole thing. All of them came here and Government also encouraged people because lots of foreign exchange, you know, for this kind of tomfoolery!
They all came, they occupied premises in a very big hotel, where there was a huge big swimming bath, where this fellow was supposed to walk on the water. And they had telescopes and every sort of thing there. And apart from that they had a television set, and from America they were going to release all the scenes of what was going to happen. This fellow came forward, it was on the television, you could see it. He put one foot, and with the second foot he was down! (laughter) He couldn’t even swim! Can you imagine? And they had to fish him out! And he was put in the hospital, and they found he had cancer. But imagine, when they asked, “Why did you do all this?” He said, “At least I got a name!” Imagine! Like some hijackers, they say that, “At least by doing these things, we will get some name.”
You know there are some maniacs who want to appear in the newspaper this way or that way. So he said, “I got a big name, in America. Everywhere, everyone knows me!” Thank God he’s no more now to befool some. You see these tricks they play. So these tricks have nothing to do with God. If he’s Christ, let him walk on the water! If you people will be kind enough, you better write to this gentleman who has spent so much money in the newspapers, especially to the journalists I would request. Because journalism takes to such stupid people very easily, I don’t know why. They will publish. You know they published such a lot of things about this nonsensical ‘christ’ who has come. Better ask him.
There’s another one who was trying to teach flying. Poor things who were flying, one of them is sitting here, she was the directress of the institution, got epilepsy, the husband got epilepsy, the child got epilepsy, all of them. They lost all their money, all their property, everything. That’s how they were flying on the streets of London. I said, “Why not ask the guru to fly? Why not use these leaning tower of Pisa? Just throw him down. Let’s see how far he can fly!” And then they were paying £3,000 to learn flying nonsense! Why do you want to fly? Are you going to become birds now? Like these nonsensical tricks they play on you, and you believe them. It is never said in any scripture, any books, anywhere that you will be flying as religious people or as spiritual people — never! Nor that you will be becoming mad.
Even ‘St’ Paul who was — I don’t know how they included him in the Bible — I can’t understand how was he a Christian? This is first thing. If he saw the light, well and good. Who saw the light? Now supposing you go and say, “I have seen the light, and I have become a great Christian!” and you start organising it, must you be included in Bible? He has no idea of Christ, and he has no idea of reality! When I saw him [in The Bible] I said, “From where does this gentleman come in?” He was nowhere near reality and he said, that people got like mad when Holy Ghost came, everybody started laughing and they started saying all kinds of words and all kinds of languages. It’s very easy. You see, say if an Indian possesses you, you will start behaving just like an Indian: you’ll speak Indian language, you may be thieving, telling lies — all these things which are their character. Or if you are an English man entered into an Indian, you will start speaking Oxbridge English. It’s possible — you have seen these things happening to people when they get possessed, they do it. It’s all possession.
What is the way to know what you have got? It’s so much unknown that, anything that is unknown is not God! There is collective subconscious, and there is collective supraconscious. Anybody can enter in from that area and can possess us. You must have seen a film shown by some doctors who said that cancer is caused by some proteins — proteins which come to us from the areas which are built within us since the time of our creation — that’s collective subconscious. They say it clearly — protein 58 to protein 52. They say it so clearly about it that, that is what triggers our cancer. But they don’t know how to control them. Of course, I have been saying this for the last twelve years! But nobody understood at that time when I was saying that it is the collective subconscious from where these things come in.
Christ is the one who took out [dead] spirits and put in the pigs. And here they are talking of Christian movements like you have got Pentecostals and charismatic and this and that, where they are putting spirits into you! And when they come before me, they shake like this — just like this — and go into an epileptic mood. I sometimes you see there are a hundred spirits sitting in those people. They have no idea as to what to do with the dead, they are so naïve. In the church you are sitting on a dead body — God knows how many. They don’t know how to do that. For example if an Indian lady from India comes in, she walks like this, saving her feet, “Oh God, they are sleeping here!” We know that when they are buried there, maybe their dead souls are around. But here in the church you go: I mean [it’s] a very nice way of possessing a person!
There’s a Sahaja Yogini in Paris: her mother was about sixty years of age — not very old because I am of that age — and she was so mad, she became so mad, that she did not know what was a bidet and what was a WC. And she was a funny woman, and she sometimes used to forget even her daughter! But Sunday morning she would get up in a very normal way, dress up very well, go to the church, say her prayers and come back. I mean, like a possessed person, she used to walk. But somehow one of the Sundays she got lost and she informed the police. The police said, “You better send her to one of these places where the old are looked after.” So this Marie told me that, when they put her there, she found there are many like this who get up on Sundays! There is a church for them. Also there are dead bodies of these mad women. They go to this church every Sunday, again they are mad for the whole week, again on the Sunday, they get up and go to the church and come back. Just imagine! How can that be God? You mean these dead spirits are God? And will He shake you all the time like this, if God enters into you? How can it be? It’s maddening. Will you become more dignified and beautiful, or you will become ridiculous? Just ask a question to yourself?
In the Bible, it is written that everybody said that these people are possessed, and they laughed at them, and they said they have gone mad. And still it is in the Bible, and people read it! “Let us read chapter this…” Just imagine describing mad people! And that has become ‘authentic’, now who is going to challenge them? They’ll kill me if I tell them that, but it’s a fact. This is not what is going to happen to you. What Christ has said [is] “Your hands will speak.” Even Mohammed Sahib has said more about the day of resurrection. He didn’t talk of the day of death first, of the complete destruction first, he talked more about the day of resurrection. Christ also [about] the day of judgement. They did not talk of the death. While there are people sitting around and thinking, “Now when will that day come when we’ll all be finished?” Imagine! We have reached that state of confusion that we are waiting for a complete destruction, trying to celebrate it, the way people are anxious about it.
First of all, you all have to enter into the Kingdom of God – that’s the place for you. That’s the place to enjoy. That’s the place God has made. He has not made you a human being to suffer and suffer and die in suffering, then we have never understood Him. He is the Father of compassion. He is the ocean of love, an ocean of forgiveness. We have forgotten, what His nature is. And we really misunderstand that he has made us to suffer. This is really absolutely [an] anti-God idea, I think, and I just can’t understand how can we really gulp it down. It’s too much, to believe that God will make you suffer. Or [that] Kundalini makes you suffer is another worse idea. She is your Mother. She has been with you. She has been waiting. She is your own mother. Everybody has an individual Mother. She has been waiting for this day to give you Realisation, is she going to make you suffer?
May God bless you all.
I’m very happy to be back, and I hope you’ll have more people next time and I’ll be able to come back again. If you have any problems, any questions, you may ask me.
Seeker: You said on the radio interview today, that you were destined to become what you are today. Are we also destined?
Shri Mataji: You have hit the point. That’s it! Absolutely, that’s it! You are all destined to come and get Realisation — absolutely that’s it! Otherwise, do you think am I mad to go about?
Have you ever known so many seekers in this world? Not only destined, but [with] deliberations. You have deliberately taken birth in those days to get your Realisation, and to do the work of God, and to enjoy the bliss of God. It’s a deliberate action on your part. Destination is of course there, but deliberations are there [too]. You have to be all very special people to do that, no doubt. That’s a quality, that’s a quality: everybody doesn’t have that quality. That’s a quality of people, and only such people can stick on. I couldn’t tell this to our mayor, that it’s a quality that is lacking. It’s a quality. They just know that — this is the truth.
Seeker: Isn’t possible to abuse the Kundalini?
Shri Mataji: No, never, never, never, never! You cannot, never.
Seeker: But can you awaken it through the wrong channel?
Shri Mataji: You cannot do it. You cannot do it. You just cannot. It’s the wisdom. Kundalini is awakened only by the permission of a Deity which is wisdom. You can never misuse it. You can never sell it.
I’ll give you an example. There was a gentleman, an Indian, whom I gave Realisation in America, who started his own organisation. As usual Indians are very good at making money. Put them anywhere, they’ll make money. This fellow, first he behaved all right, and then he started his organisation and all that and he wrote to me, “I am doing this Sahaja Yoga, I am doing this, and I’ve got lots of people coming.” He put a fees and all that. I didn’t know how he was running it. Of course, you can charge for the food all right, you can charge for your stay. But when he came — the people in Bombay are very sensitive — they told me, “Mother, we are fainting with this man! What’s the matter with him? We are all feeling giddy.” I said, “Don’t you worry. I’ll find out.” When he came, I said, “Can I have a look at your brochure?” In the brochure, he had written, “For vibrations, ordinary, $125. For special ones $280!” I said, “Sir why this?” He said, “Mother how am I to live?” I said, “What were you doing?” He said, “I was a teacher.” I said, “You go ahead with your teaching. How much money did you pay me to get your vibrations that you put this kind of a thing there?” He said, “But how am I going to live?” And he got into a temper, and he became very red. Now, “I can talk to you about it. You cannot take any money for it.” So he got very angry. He said, “I am going to see one Guru.” I said, “Go and see him!” This is a guru living in Calicut (Kozhikode). Actually I have never met him. But this fellow, when he came back, he telephoned to me. He said, “Mother please forgive me, please forgive me, please forgive me.” I said, “What happened?” He telephoned, and on the telephone he said, “I must tell you all of what happened.” I said, “What happened?” He said, “I went there, and when I reached the gate, this guru was sitting in a hut, and he started throwing stones at me: one after another, so many stones he threw that I just sat down there. He said, “What do you mean? You have said those things to Mother and you think I will give you some blessings here? These are my blessings, go ahead!” And poor fellow, he went back: he went and sat in the station, on the platform. And one of this guru’s persons went and said that, “What did you say to Mother? He knows that Mother is there, and how dare you say something to Mother?” He said, “Because I was making money and she was angry with me, and this.” He said, “You better go and ask for forgiveness!” For three days, he stayed on the platform and on the fourth day the guru sent for him [and] he came. And then he said a Sanskrit shloka in my praise and all that. He said, “Just go and read it out to Mother, that’s all.” So he brought that and read it on the phone. But somehow he could not meet me. He tried his level best but he just could not meet me. And he read that to me.
But when this guru, I told him that, “Why don’t you go to America, because this year I won’t be able to go?” He went to New York, he was there for three days and he went back. He said, “They are all mad people! They are dollar-mad! I can’t stay there. They were offering me dollars for everything.” So he ran back! He couldn’t stay there. So there are realised-souls. There are people who know about Sahaja Yoga. But they know that you cannot sell it. If you try to do anything like that — finished — you will lose your vibrations immediately. They are very sensitive, very sensitive. If you are ignorant, then it’s all right, they will stay. But knowingly if you do something, just they’ll disappear. And you won’t like it, because when they are flowing you are enjoying yourself, and you just stop [enjoying].
Those who don’t know anything about Kundalini, they say the Kundalini is in the stomach, this, that — they are not authorised people, they try to play tricks with Kundalini — they get into trouble. Because it’s not the Kundalini, because She is the Mother, but the Deity, the Deity that is Christ actually in another form called Ganesha is sitting down there. He hits them hard onto the sympathetic, and that’s how they get it, all the problems.
Seeker: So how do other gurus raise the Kundalini?
Shri Mataji: That’s what I am going to do. Once I have done it, then you will do. First an enlightened light must enlighten you. Once you are enlightened, you enlighten other people.
Dr Warren: He said, how do other gurus raise the Kundalini?
Shri Mataji: Which one? Which one? Let’s have him out. I will send half of them to them. Who is the one? They just talk.
Seeker: Swami Muktananda is quite popular.
Shri Mataji: You think he’s raising Kundalini or he’s putting bhoots? He is putting possessions! They just dance, dance, dance. Anybody can dance, what is so great? Anybody can dance, what is there so great in dancing? Is there? But Kundalini you can see with your naked eyes, the pulsation, the rising and the cool breeze coming out of your head. That’s what it is. It’s not dancing: even Rajneesh does that! He even takes out your clothes! All right?
But this Muktanand is a funny fellow I must say. Horrible fellow he spoils the Kundalini so badly! The other day one fellow came, who was with him for sixteen years, can you imagine? He’s good for nothing now! How to give him Realisation? He’s spent all his money, everything. He has become so useless. And then he says now, “Now I feel I am mentally also good for nothing.” I sent him to Australia, that fellow. I am sorry! I didn’t mean you, I did not mean you. I sent him to Australia because he was going to Australia, I said all right, you go and see these people. But a headache, I tell you. He’s good for nothing, this fellow! I know his names in his previous lives (Muktanand). But very difficult. Horrible! They not only want to make money: it’s all right, there are thugs, there are smugglers, all right, I don’t mind. But they’ll spoil your chances of Realisation. They are anti-God. That’s the point is! The Kundalini just doesn’t rise in people who go to Muktanand — rather difficult. Don’t be frightened, if you have been, I’ll manage it. It can be worked out. But when you will meet somebody Muktanandi, you will know: you will run away from that person then, because the hands break! You get tired. The Kundalini is tired, poor thing: She hits her head, this side, that side. I don’t know what he does: horrible, cruel man.
One better than the other, this Muktanand. Can’t you see on his face? What does he talk? All nonsense! Very easy to make out. He puts the Kundalini in such a way that the Void is completely finished! The crossing point, that Void, is so much obstructed that the Kundalini doesn’t get out of that, it just wobbles there only. Well, we’ll work it out, all right? We’ll work it out.
You are seekers, you are seekers. You are God’s own people. And you are to be saved. So let these horrible people delude you. How long will they go on? All of them have to perish one by one, you will see that. The best part of it [is] that all untruth fails, ultimately.
Seeker: How do you actually tell a true guru?
Shri Mataji: After Realisation it’s very easy. But you can tell. For example, can’t you say who is a sincere person? You can, if you don’t get into the circus. It’s simple.
But a true guru will not be worried about your purse, as to how much money you have got. And he will give you your own powers. He’ll not try to show off his own powers, talk about his own powers, “I am this, I am that,” nothing. Unless and until the Kundalini is risen and you have got Self-realisation, nobody will give you false certificate that Kundalini is awakened. It has to manifested. It’s all falsehood: [from] a to z, it is false. Supposing for example that somebody’s Kundalini doesn’t rise — all right, it does not rise. My own daughters are not realised-souls, what can I do about it? My own daughters are not realised-souls. But my grandchildren are. So what can I do? I cannot force on them. If it is not, it is not. You cannot give a false certificate. It has to happen.
Seeker: Isn’t it hard to combine Christian and Hindu concepts?
Shri Mataji: No, no, it is the easiest. They are just the same, my child. They are just the same. There is no difference at all. They are all one. Christ has said, “Those who are not against me are with me.” Who are they? They are all one. There is no difference at all. You’ll find it. At different stages they came on this Earth to give us a new dimension, all of them. Like on a tree, we have different flowers at different times, but they all come from the same source, don’t they?
Now they pluck the flower, “This is my flower,” “This is my flower.” That’s not, that’s a dead flower. The same energy produces the same flowers. But they fight. You will be surprised, if I tell you the whole history of the relationship between them: between Christ and Krishna, between Mohammed and Christ, and Krishna, there’s a big relationship. They are all related to each other, very closely, which you’ll find out in Kundalini also. It’s very interesting how they are related, now they have played the game. And they are all settled down within us: all brothers sisters, husband-wife; all sorts of relationship they have. It’s very interesting to see, but it is not only a story but you can see it yourself, that they are within you. Say for example if I say that Mohammed Sahib was the same as Nanak, Guru Nanak. Imagine the Sikhs are breaking the neck of Muslims, and Muslims are breaking the heads of the Sikhs. It’s a big quarrel going on. But Nanak came after Mohammed, to teach Muslim-Hindu unity. Because he was surprised the way Muslims are.
But they are one! They are one personality, born again and again. Moses, Abraham, Socrates: all of them are the same. Now if a Muslim is a fanatic, he gets a cancer. Normally he should, or he becomes a dry personality. Imagine Khomeini. They become a dry personality. They can be very violent people. But supposing they get into trouble, like cancer. I had one Muslim coming from Iran, who was a fanatic, he got cancer. I said, “You think that Mohammed Sahib is the only person?” “Yes,” he said. “But if I say, Guru Nanak was the same.” “I can’t believe it.” I said, “Then I can’t cure you. You have to accept, because Mohammed Sahib himself is against you, because he came in ten forms.” And he wouldn’t accept it. But his wife prevailed upon him because he was very sick. And he got cured. That’s how you have to prove. Human beings cannot easily understand.
You see, if you are born in a Christian religion, you become a Christian. It’s a horrible thing like that! You are all human beings, and all this people have come on this Earth to give you a new dimension. Only we don’t understand them. They never came to make us fanatics. That at least ,that is too much to see.
After Realisation, you will know that they are all in complete unison, complete concord, that’s not possible on human level: absolute complete concord. Yes, it’s a fact!
All right, should we have Realisation now, let us try. Because I have to go now to London, and tomorrow is another very heavy day.
Please put your hands.