1982-0407 Talk on Mental Projection Nirmala Palace Ashram, Nightingale Lane
Note [Please note Shri Mataji translates for Indians dancers present at the time and I have marked this in brackets as (Speaks in Indian Language).]
Shri Mataji: Can you come tomorrow morning, he said maybe it would be better off tomorrow, ….sensible somewhere, I said. ????
Sit down please. Why to have video now why do you want to have it? Find some informal stuff. Yogi: No we don’t want video.
Yogi: These are the ones that are very helpful to people Mother.
Shri Mataji: You think so?
Yogi: Yes Mother these informal talks are the ones that really help people around the world. Yogi: For people
Yogi: You can see it in the night
Shri Mataji: You can see it it in the night
Shri Mataji: Hampstead ??
Yogi: Yes we can see it in the night
Yogi: My request was Mother would it be possible to film these informal talks because these ones are the ones ….
Shri Mataji: Which ones?
Yogi: The informal ones Mother
Shri Mataji: When
SM. It is very very informal, I think that not, alright?
Shri Mataji: Now, I hope you all understood what I said this morning. I think that must be seen again, Yogi: Yes
Shri Mataji: your petition is very beautifully interwoven, but something very very important and vital. Now whatever I have said is this, mental projection is the main thing you have to understand. Where’s Gregoire? Translate, just translate. Mental projection, about mental projection, that’s the main thing I feel you all suffer from. Like the, you see we always have an enquiry, enquiry about spiritual life, what is this, what is that? Mother tell us about this, Mother tell us about that.
Doorbell rings and someone answers it Yogi: The dancers Mother
Shri Mataji: They have come now, so tell them that we have……….Somebody? Alright?, come in then, tell them we have started the meeting. I mean they should have been earlier. Somebody should go and handle them, that Mother has started. If they can come in let them come inside somewhere. (Indian Language) they can sit down if they have come in.
Gregoire: Ray could you receive them.
Shri Mataji: let them come in late and therefore we have already started doesn’t matter, but they can come in?? Let them come inside. (Shri Matajispeaks in Indian Language)
Yogi: There are some seats there for them, Mother
Shri Mataji: Ya it’s alright, say, ya ? (Speaks again to newcomers in Indian Language)
Shri Mataji: you couldn’t find the road? Please Come on come sit down, sit down, (Indian Language) Can you sit? (Speaks again in Indian Language). Please sit comfortably all of you. That’s it.
Yogi: ask them to get some water
Shri Mataji: and tea for all of us if it is possible. (Speaks again in Indian Language).
Yogi: Could we all squeeze up as much as possible please so that everyone here. (Indian Language spoken)
Shri Mataji: The children can be taken out
Yogi: Mother has asked that the children be taken out please.
Shri Mataji: for a while, for a while, poor things, only the crying ones.
Yogi: The crying ones,
Shri Mataji: Mother laughs, otherwise all are children, nobody will remain here! Shri Mataji: Including Warren! Yogi: Yes
Shri Mataji: Ha! (Talks again to newcomers in Indian Language).
Shri Mataji: Now what was I saying about mental projection is that we live on our mental level all the time. I would give you an example, that’s supposing you have to go to a picnic, and mentally you prepare yourself, you plan, with that planning you think you have done the job and when you go to the picnic you find you haven’t taken anything because you have written down everything. You have planned everything it is all finished it is in a mental way it is done, but actually it has not happened.
Gregoire Translates into French
Shri Mataji: In the same way our spiritual enquiry is also a mental projection. Like some people can ask why God has created us, why he has created this universe why there is misery. What we don’t realise the enquiry comes from the area where there is ignorance it comes from ignorance. The enquiry comes from ignorance not from knowledge, and that’s why this enquiry if it is answered it is a darkness answer to darkness, makes no difference at all, it can never solve the problem. For example to a blind man what is the use of telling what colour is this cloth? Better the thing is to
open his eyes and then he should see for himself. Or else like some Sahaja Yogis he can close his eyes again and ask questions again, what colour is this cloth?
It is a matter of habit. I cured a blind man in India and many a things he could only tell after closing his eyes, most of that because he could feel with his fingers, that the habit he has developed, that he would not use his eyes.
And same thing happens to Sahaja Yogis that after realisation, when your eyes are open you have seen the light, still you put your mental projection into action and try to understand everything through your mental activity. So one must know that any enquiry that comes is coming from a person who has not known. Once you have known then what is there to ask? Kabira has said (Indian Language) when you have become one with God what is there to talk or what to ask? But the mental projection is such a dangerous thing that it always keeps you away from reality. It is a vicious circle, and you cannot break it. So the best thing is that first of all you get your realisation. You become an aware person, enlightened person and then see for yourself and experience it. Now say if you want to ask a question, say even if you want to know about me, you just think let us think about Mothers Kundalini, see what happens you will become thoughtless, just see that. No thought. That is fantastic. Laughter.
But this is only because you are realised souls if you are not a realised soul you will still be enquiring about it. If you understand this subtle point then you will not be satisfied with your mental enquiry. These days it is a big fashion in the elite society to talk about God. If not God they will talk about something Divine and something spiritual when they are drunk specially when they are confused, and they don’t know what spirits they are talking about. I feel all blind are talking to blind, and how can blind lead you anywhere? That’s why it is said that through rationality you cannot achieve God. It is a limited thing. But again this should not become an obsession with you which is a mental obsession. Like we can say I am doing meditation. What is there to do meditation, you can’t do meditation, you are in meditation. Like French may say I make meditation, (laughter) you can’t do that, you are in meditation. When you are in thoughtless awareness, when you are in that state then you are in meditation.
Now this mental projection business is to be handled very carefully because it comes from a very big giant within us called Mr Ego. That’s why it is important to see it clearly and not to be frightened of it. Because if you have superego then you will trouble others is not the point. You will be troubled yourself you will have pains you will have all kinds of body feelings about it. But if it is an ego others will be troubled by it.
Just pass it over.
So to stop all this useless mental activity one has to understand that Kundalini must be kept jetting out of your Brahmarandra. By mental projection you cannot raise kundalini. That you know, you cannot keep it there. So what technique of the Divine you know you should use that and keep your Kundalini on a level where it is emerging out of your Sahasrara and your hands should feel the vibrations. Now mental projection is a very difficult stuff, so it sounds very enchanting and more sort of a, one feels that you are being very brave about it. When you argue with other people and they argue with you and then you bring the point you think you have won the Davis Cup.
Now, but what is the gain? Neither you have gained nor the other person, you have gained nothing whatsoever. So the rapport should be such that it ends all the rapports. The question should be such that it ends all the questions and this is what is the technique of the Divine which you know about. All the enquiries of this nature if you ask the Divine you become thoughtless. Why, why do we become thoughtless, when we make any such enquiry? Because the state is important, the state is important and not the mental understanding of your enquiry. It is the state that you achieve, most important. Again see the point, state. For example children live in that state, they are not bothered about enquiries they think it is stupid. Their ways and methods are so simple
because they don’t believe in all nonsensical difficult things. But for educated people, intellectuals and the kind of people who are here the habits are there. Oxford, Cambridge, then John Hopkins,
Gregoire: Speaks in French and French laugh
Shri Mataji: I know what he said
Gregoire Translates: Oxford, Cambridge then John Hopkins and some others…..
Shri Mataji: You never found God there did you, did you find God there, did you find your spirit there? So this is a new school into which you have entered and you have to change your methods and ways.
In India, one Sahaja yogi had a seminar and they were having a brain trust. Brain trust, you were a member of that, and also Mr Warren and also Dr B???, and I think Bala and you two. I have nothing to say against it as such is the childish play of the children I would say, but you cannot have Brain Trust.
Yogi: Brain Trust?
G: Mother You mean this seminar?
Shri Mataji: No no no, no one of the Bombay Seminars we had
G: In India?
Shri Mataji: all the great stalwarts of Sahaja Yoga
G: I was not there
Shri Mataji: Hah
Shri Mataji: All the stalwarts from Bombay and had an idea of a Brain Trust you see, and they went round and round and round. But whatever it was, I was enjoying their play, their acrobats.
Now you don’t have to trust the brain, you have to trust your spirit, and this is the new dimension into which you have come which must be understood in a different light that you have not seen before. Once you realise this then you will know why so many great prophets have never been to university. Of course vise versa is also not true that those all do not go to university are all realised souls. Neither this nor that, both are not going to take you to God. What is going to take you to God is all your own desire to become one with him. The kundalini itself the desire, she is the desire of God, she is going to take you to God. As I told you before we have destroyed a lot of it before realisation, and after realisation also by not maintaining it we can destroy.
Some talking in the background. (Can he come tomorrow he said) So now if you have any enquiry please ask me questions alright? Shri Mataji: Alright you can ask me. (Speaks in Indian Language)
Shri Mataji: He wants to arrange a big program in his organisation. (Speaks Indian) Yes please.
Yogi: ?? That’s it. Question in French.
G: I am sorry Mother , the question is, he doesn’t have much understanding…He said if in concentrating the agnya chakra on a specific beauty spot, does one ameliorate the vibrations
G: I asked do you concentrate on a point on Mothers feet.
(Lots of unintelligible talk)
Yogi: Where do you?
Shri Mataji: What did he say?
G: Which is more difficult Mother
Shri Mataji: Alright let’s have it. Yes, what is he saying?
G: He asks whether by concentrating On a spot one can improve vibrations, improve vibrations Shri Mataji: From agnya?
G: From the agnya point.
Shri Mataji: Never, you can get possessed you see. I tell you what, how do the people get these tantrikas? How do they pick up these bhoots, do you know how they come to manage them?
They concentrate on some sort of a thing like a flame or something without realisation with their agnya looking at it. Now by that pressurising what happens because the agnya chakra is not open very much it forces to the left or to the right, and you get into the collective subconscious or collective supraconscious. Now, Now the vibrations you get from these is nothing but shaking but what happens like somebody once told me that one of the Sahaja Yogis he met in Bombay and suddenly in his presence he became silent. Ah I said that’s it. I must find out. But he was the one possessed by agnya and he used to show people Sai Nath here and all sorts of things he was doing. I never knew. Because that is a possession that comes in suddenly you go out of your awareness and you become absolutely silent. That happens with all most of the Gurus you see what they do is turn the chakra like that, and by that suddenly you become silent because you are no more there, that is the spirit. But these people end up with epilepsy you have seen that, or end up in lunatic asylum. All such people who try these things ultimately do not rise in Sahaja Yoga much. Now one has to also understand that to achieve peace is not to run away from reality. Reality itself is peace, but if you are on the periphery then you cannot feel the peace, but if you are on the axis the axis is the peace. But supposing at the periphery you find by any chance there is peace, you are standing at the periphery and suddenly you become peaceful then that means you are driven out of even the periphery. So one should be very cautious about agnya chakra. The enquiry about these things start because agnya chakra gives you a new experience, people start seeing light, St. Paul and how much bad he has done to the bible itself. You see all kinds of things, but what is there to see? If you are away from it then only you see you are not in it. So all these experiences should be given up. The only experience that is the highest is the experience where you feel the energy going from you in your hands or coming to you from all over, as cool breeze as Chaitanya Lahari, from Sahasrara and from your hands, sometimes you get it from your feet, and don’t try these tricks of concentrating your eyes onto something you might even at least become a spirit if not anything else, See it? You have to raise your Kundalini to Sahasrara that is the only way you should come up. This is just a window do not try to get out of the window, otherwise you will hurt yourself. You too will get out of door here! Alright?
Yogi: Mother, many have asked me how do you keep the attention above the agnya chakra. How do you keep it there?
Shri Mataji: Attention above the agnya chakra. See there is a Sanskrit saying which is Neti Neti (Indian Language) When you see a thought you just say not this not this, because you are realised souls, not before that it will not work out, but now your kundalini has gone up you just look at your thoughts and they will settle down.
Then there are questions? Fundamental questions you should ask. Is there God? Ask the question. Questions that are sublime which are fundamental, absolute. If you ask after realisation, only after realisation your attention goes up. Where is your attention, you see people see vibrations where Mother should I buy this frock for my daughter or not — see the vibrations!.
When Mother will I get this job, or not. Is it good for me to take this job, all sorts of nonsensical things. You see all this is not important. Ask for something great ask for something sublime. A question which is eternal. Why ask these useless questions. How many times you have been married, how many times you have had children in previous lives. How many times you have had jobs and unemployed, and jobs and all your lives you have done nothing but this nonsense. Are you going to repeat that even after realisation? Because our attention is there you see that’s why our attention is low. Ask all the greatest questions of the world. Your attention will be beyond the Sahasrara. Attention is your slave wherever you want to put it it will go there. If you want to go into a dirty lane you can go if you want to go to a sublime temple you can go. You have to ride your attention.
Still the question remains?
G: Yes I will translate
G: She asked whether she can now cure somebody and if yes how? Shri Mataji: Show what?
G: Cure Mother
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes she can why not. But you see sound what disease they have, say for example you must feel the vibrations, and whatever chakras they are catching you should see the mantras, and raise the Kundalini. Also on the Kundalini you can see, you see it will be throbbing at that point. By putting your hand also, she understands English that much isn’t it Mellica? Yes, When you put your hands on the patients on that part for curing put your left hand, and right hand towards the photograph. You can cure, there are so many ways and methods, you can cure, just touch, you can cure no doubt.
Yogi: Mother we should not use the mantras should we before realisation?
Shri Mataji: Why it has no meaning you are not connected mantras has to be awakened. It has no meaning, it is not awakened there is no light what is the use, you see supposing there is no light in it, and I take in the darkness, will I see? That you laugh at, but we always do like that all the time, what we are doing is we are doing something that doesn’t exist. Can you translate?
G: Sorry Mother I was….
Shri Mataji: The question she asked should we not use mantras before realisation so I said without the light in there supposing I take this one around will I see anything? It should be enlightened, it
should be jagrut. And how will you know also which mantras to use because you don’t know which centre it is catching.
Now any other questions? Yogi: Asks question inaudible Shri Mataji: What did she say?
Yogi: Can I ask a question about a chakra which I have had one or two different reports. I am not even sure I have got the name right. MahaGaneshapati it sits somewhere here? What are the aspects and what part of the body does it affect.
G: She is asking about Maha Ganesha where it exists and which part of the body does it affect.
Shri Mataji: Maha Ganapati exists in the Sahasrara it is at this point it is the opposite of agnya and it controls your Ganapati Mooladhara down below. All of psychic controls I should say, you see whatever is in the chakras is represented in the Sahasrara. In the Sahasrara it is called as Maha, while in the chakras it is called by the simple name. Alright? Because Sahasrara is the universal it is a part of the universal being the awareness of the universal being in the Sahasrara. That is why it is Maha. For example this is visshuddhi chakra, here it becomes Virata. Here He exists as Shri Krishna, here as Virat, alright?
Yogi: Mother When you are working on people and you draw the sign of Ganesha on their palm is that something that you just do, and if it’s something that we can do when we work on people, when should we do it?
Shri Mataji: You can do it but do you know why you do it?
Yogi: That is what I am asking Mother.
Shri Mataji: Here it is on the left side of the Sahasrara what exists there, tell me? Various people say ego and other things
Shri Mataji: Ego is there, and on the right side?
Various people say superego
Shri Mataji: so to counteract that do you understand?
Now, the left side is given the mark of the swastika because it is the left side. Alright? And where it is the cross, because it is the right side, because the left side becomes, I mean the left swastika becomes the action of cross, but here it is ego. So the mantra that is said on the left hand side is that ‘please forgive me”means to overcome your ego you have to say ‘please forgive me’ and when you do it on the right hand side you say that ‘I forgive” It is a double combination because agnya chakra has ham sham two mantra bija. That is I am and I forgive. So both of them are, is a double combination that you draw the left side of the psyche is the swastika, alright? And in that desire you because the ego is there at the Sahasrara you say, and the right hand you draw the cross because that becomes the cross in the right hand side representing the right, right side, the complete right side, but because of the Sahasrara point you say that ‘I forgive”. In action also see Ganesha is the one who kills, he just kills so you have to say ‘forgive me” but Christ you have to say that ‘I forgive everyone” as he forgives so it’s I should say a triple combination in a way. Do you understand? First is the left hand on the Sahasrara is the left hand, so that is to be established then the deity on the left hand has to be, who will be the left hand deity is will be Christ and because he is the forgiving, I am sorry Ganesha is the one because he is the killer, I am sorry Ganesha he is the killer and because he is the killer you have to say ‘ forgive me’ it’s a triple
combination. And the right side just see how it has combined, the right hand side is Christ who says ‘I forgive’ and he’s the one who is the killer of ego. So the killing of, the killing of Ganesha is important because at this point if you do not have Ganesha the killing you will not say ‘forgive me’. Unless and until somebody is going to kill you you are not going to say ‘forgive me’ can you. So the settling by the cross has taken place. Beautiful, many people ask why it is crossed, it is crossed for this reason. Your ego can never be conquered by saying ‘I forgive everyone’ but for an egoistical man it is better to tell. Now if you tell an egoistical man that you say that I forgive all of them then his ego is pampered no doubt, but Christ is awakened a trick. This is the Vidya, this is the Shri Vidya, this is a trick. Now when to a superego fellow if you tell him that you ask for forgiveness it is his nature all the time asking for forgiveness so it doesn’t matter. If you tell such a person, if you tell such a person that you forgive others he’ll say ‘Oh I always forgive no question, I am the one who has done all bad things.’ You see Superego man he takes all blame upon himself. So for such a man you have to say that you ask for forgiveness he is very happy. But by saying that you awaken Shri Ganesha. So first two things are actually for awakening and the third thing is befooling. This is the leela. Otherwise see If you cannot get the key with straight finger better bend it and take it out. You have to somehow see that Kundalini comes up, alright? I am happy that you have asked the question because I have never divulged it to you.
Shri Mataji: What is it now?
Yogi: I was working on somebody the other day and their hands went absolutely ice cold, what does it mean and what do we do about it?
Shri Mataji: Where was that?
Yogi:In Cheltenham Mother, I met someone I gave them realisation.
Shri Mataji: His hands went absolutely cold?
Yogi: Yes his hands went ice cold.
Shri Mataji: He must have very low blood pressure moreover if they are numb he’s out for death.
Yogi: He felt the cool breeze Mother.
Shri Mataji: You see what I am saying, if they are numb, numbness is a sign of death. Coming death so be careful with such people.
Like Dr B??? He wanted to know what is Sahaja Yoga. As usual he called for a patient who he had just diagnosed for a heart patient. So I told that I will cure her but she will die. I told him. He could not believe it, when I cured her he said now she’s alright she is walking about. I said she is going to die, she won’t live after 2 days, you take it from me. He said how can this be I said I am sure and she died. She got cool breeze everything, she was walking, but she died. But you need not announce to them. (Talks in Indian Language)
Yogi: I was going to ask, is it necessary to make one guru in your life. Shri Mataji: Oh yes.
Yogi: If it is so I want to know the custom, how do you know?
Shri Mataji: You see guru is that that makes you meet God (Speaks in Indian Language) otherwise the rest of the nonsense is useless. Alright? You have to have a guru because only an enlightened light can enlighten another. The light which is not enlightened cannot enlighten. So a person who takes money cannot be a guru. A person who lives on your charities is a parasite. A person who has an immoral life cannot be a guru so one has to understand a guru is the one who raises the
kundalini and gives you realisation otherwise he is not a guru. That’s the only way you should have a guru, otherwise their are many ( ?’pampers’ ) as we call them in the world who are just there who are interested in your purse. Marathi language is the best to describe them. (Speaks in Marathi) We have lots of them (?pampered?) by this that all of them who are running, Lucknow, Bhootnath (speaks in Marathi) actually rakshasas real rakshasas. You cannot charge money you cannot you must have compassion and love and should give, how can a guru take it? And then if he lives on your money then he is a parasite definitely, how can he be your guru? But guru you should only have when you are seeking God. Otherwise you should not have any guru. What is the need? You are alright a Human being but if you want to become Atma Sakshat ?? Then you have to have some guru.
Now see I am their guru, naturally I have given them realisation. They have themselves become gurus now they can give realisation too. But I am their Mother this is a very difficult situation Mother becomes a guru you can imagine, horrible, horrible job.
Yogi: Mother in Australia we had marriages for this lady we had an Indian lady who came to Australia and she had a similar question to ask me, and she said do I continue to follow the same guru whose ashram I was visiting in Bangalore, not this big fellow but some small Ashram, and I said get your Kundalini awakened first, feel the vibrations and then you can decide for yourself and she did that and she got the cool vibrations and she asked the question, is he a Guru of truth, is he a sat guru and she found out for herself, this is the beautiful part.
Shri Mataji: This is. All real people know each other, there is no controversy, in Delhi we have Guru ??? now. I had never met him before, I had never had any idea about him, and a lady doctor came to see me and she said Mother I went to see the Guru ????? And he said now Mother has come why are you coming all the way to see me? she said where is she? He told me that she is in Bombay, she is such and such, now you go and see her. We all know each other, you see there is no controversy because the truth is ?? Isn’t it. But he is such a strict fellow that I dare not send anyone to him because he will break your necks he is a kind of lion and he is very harsh with them, if you say anything against me then naturally he gets very annoyed. He is a very very difficult man. Very difficult person. But there are many real gurus but first why not become yourself by first getting your realisation that’s the best way as he said.
G: You can put your feet straight on the floor.
Shri Mataji: (Indian language sentence). Just put your hands towards me, just like this (speaks in Indian Language) whatever is your Tattwa you become absolute. Put your hands towards me (Indian Language sentence)
Shri Mataji: Yesterday when dancing we Raised his Kundalini, ah that’s nice that’s nice. (Speaks in Indian Language) see his vibrations (speaks again in Indian)
Yogi: Right heart, right Swadishthan Yogi: Right side
Shri Mataji: Right heart, right Swadishthan Yogi: Left heart
Shri Mataji: Over exertion, over exertion
Shri Mataji: What about her, Is she alright, she too has the same thing, what do you say? Yogi: She’s Left Swadishthan
Shri Mataji: She is left Swadishthan
Yogi: A little bit, the vibrations are good.
Yogi: Are much stronger the vibrations Yogi: Left heart
Yogi: Right visshuddhi
Shri Mataji: (speaks in Indian) Right visshuddhi (speaks again Indian) Shri Mataji: You will start feeling warmth here. (Speaks in Indian) Shri Mataji: The chakra caught, right visshuddhi (speaks in Indian) SM. He’s alright, is he? Left to the right
Yogi: He’s much better now
Shri Mataji: Over exertion, (Indian Language) too much physical
Shri Mataji: Hah now?
She’s OK (speaks Indian)
Shri Mataji: Hah now, is he better? Ha That’s it (speaks in Indian). I am the spirit, ah better (Speaks Indian)
Yogi: Better (Indian Language)
Shri Mataji: Hm, alright? Better on the heart? (Indian Language) Better
Yogi: Left heart is much better, right heart is still catching Shri Mataji: Ha , right heart is still catching…
Shri Mataji: (Speaks in Indian)
Shri Mataji: Ganesha (Speaks in Indian) For the gentleman where?
Ah Better now.
Yogi: The lady’s centre heart is catching (Speaks in Indian Language) Shri Mataji: (Indian language) Ha Bengali?
Yogi: Left Swadishthan that’s why
Shri Mataji: We are the worshippers of Kali
Yogi: And Durga also
Shri Mataji: And Durga
(Speaks in Indian Language)
Shri Mataji: Ah Now, (Speaks in Indian Language) see his forehead
Yogi: Should we ask the question? Ego?
Shri Mataji: Alright, ah alright, come along, she has to ask the question in her heart twice. Shri Mataji: (Speaks in Indian language) Nirvicharya Relaxed?
Yogi: Atma Sakshat Durga
Shri Mataji: Alan?
Shri Mataji: (Speaks in Indian Language) Agnya
Yogi: It is coming
Shri Mataji: Agnya (Speaks Indian Language)
Yogi: You have to recognise
Shri Mataji: Ah Is he better? Better now? Move the right to the left
He’s alright, move the left to the right. Alright, better. Are you feeling any cool breeze in the hands? That’s it. Sweating you should not, you will not feel once it happens to you, alright, just put your hands (Speaks in Indian Language) heart chakra
Yogi: When she asked the question “Do I need a Guru” it sparked.
Shri Mataji: You don’t need a guru, you are your own guru. Mm my Heart?
Yogi: Yes it is much better now.
Shri Mataji: (Speaks in Indian) There’s no thought in your mind? Just watch your thoughts, use your ??? (Speaks again in Indian Language)
Yogi: What did you say? Shri Mataji: (Indian Language)
Shri Mataji: Close your eyes close your eyes, (Speaks in Indian Language) right, got it? She’s got it already ah. Are you alright? Just see, are you ??? Just see on top of her head is it? Hah, alright you will be alright, you will be alright.
Yogi: She cannot recognise you Mother, she cannot recognise you, recognition Mother, it is void.
Shri Mataji: I was saying I will talk to him that in this hall we can start a class once a week or something for the children, and we can get some children from outside. The children of this place must be (Training, some concession/compensation???)
Yogi: Some outsiders.
Shri Mataji: We have some children for you all and all these little little children..we can advertise here and start and have school sometime.
Yogi: And some outsiders we could advertise for as well.
Shri Mataji: And little more children to teach say once a month, he can come down with his wife and start a centre here.
Yogi: We can encourage our people to do this and also advertise it outside
S: We can do it in this area.
Yogi: Yes it is an excellent idea.
Shri Mataji: In London and all these places, in this hall we can use it for one day in the week I say. One of the days
Shri Mataji: Wednesday In the morning time perhaps maybe for the children or in the evening time.
Yogi: Whatever time suits you Mother
Shri Mataji: Evening time is the best here
Yogi: Daytime is better for weekends
Shri Mataji: On a Saturday
Yogi:Weekends, Saturday is the best time because of school and family problems, parents don’t like children…?
Shri Mataji: (Speaks in Indian Language). It has to grow, it has to grow (Speaks again in Indian Language) Shri Mataji: So is there any other question?
G: Mother, I have a question that….
G: You mentioned in Bombay there would be an ashram? With a school for children, Mother what is your intention, could you….
Shri Mataji: No No, you see someone has donated us the land free for the school that is already there, it has been there. It has been there, I want to start that school myself and now this donation of the land is also coming up to maturity for the ashram which is another place which is near (Tusili???) where he has given us an acre of land. Now this, the school land is about 6/7 acres and for which we can start a school there, a regular school where the children can be educated, and we can have a hostel for them and a proper school now that is one, then the thirdly there is one offering of a land by President of India so theres another third ashram we have got, now 3 ashrams are there. Now we have sufficient money to begin work in Bombay as it is, and you people have also donated very generously whatever money is there, all that money we can use for building up the school as well as the ashram, but we need a little more money which will be coming further on. Now the foreign exchange that you gave me in France and all that, the 500 Francs I must tell you what happened with that, is that we have used it in France in a particular place because they said if you convert it into £’s and then into Indian money you would be losing a lot. But it will be converted into Indian money by the way that it can be used here as £’s and we can get them into rupees in India. So I mean whatever is expense that you have to do it in £’s that can be adjusted/invested? But there is nothing hanky lanky about it nothing illegal, nothing wrong, so this it is what it is, so most of the money that you have given for the ashram is there plus I am expecting some more money from the people of Australia, are going to give some money. This money should be sufficient according to my judgement for both, but in case we need money for a bigger, I mean we will have a master plan and if we need more money we will see, but school is very easy. I am going to work it out with
the education minister to have a school for children coming from foreign countries, for example Indians in England want to have a school, alright,but there is another lot of land somebody is willing to give me, donate me,for starting a school in England for Indian children because to teach them Indian life and Indian culture and Indian style, and Indian themes, and Indian philosophy and ultimately Sahaja yoga. Just now all our hands are so full, the trust may have given me the land and all that and they said will collect some money actually today they have invited me for dinner but I have told other, the ambassador to go and see the gentleman, tomorrow maybe I will talk to him about this scheme, that we are going to have another school in London but for Sahaja Yogis the best thing will be the school we want to have in India at a certain stage. Our young children will not have but little grown up so that they can be looked after and could be trained in a proper style of Sahaja Yoga so that is it. So both the things I want to do. But in the ashram I will not have the school.
Yogi: The question, if I may ask Mother is do you foresee a long summer course for these children or do you foresee a full one year course, in the sense that if we were to send our children away then it is a full year course for the whole year.
Shri Mataji: It will all be run on the international line there won’t be anything that will, I mean if you want to take them out for there also it will be easy for you to do. But all the time the lifestyle will be changed you will change
Yogi: I was……….inaudible
Yogi: Mental activity
Shri Mataji: Even John F? is like it
Yogi: Oh Mother, I don’t wish this.
Shri Mataji: Diplomat ay? (speaks again in Indian language). Where is Ganeshwara, Gone outside, poor things are expelled. (Indian Language).
Then you become the Guru. Then any art is the easiest thing to do. (Speaks again in Indian) What is so difficult, you never get tired, nothing. new ideas coming, then everything becomes different. The life becomes dynamic because dynamism starts flowing.
(Indian Language again) The Indian dancing (Indian Language) You can feel the same (Indian Language).
Yogi: (Indian Language)
Shri Mataji: Then we wanted to talk to people from say France or wherever they want to arrange a program and all that, so I would say that all such people who would like to arrange program this year or next year anywhere should contact him and take his address write to him and find out from him this year or next year and I will gradually give him idea as to how to prepare on the lines of Kundalini and all that. So that you can arrange his program and he can be paid for his program and all that but you see by that by doing so that you give them the essence of Virat, really the essence of Virat and the whole idea of how the S? Have come and what is the thing within (Speaks in Indian) so that you see we can spread.
Yogi: Speaks in French Shri Mataji: (Indian language).
Shri Mataji: (Indian Language). I don’t know that, he can arrange all that, But he is going to Holland on the 12 Aug (Indian language again)
Shri Mataji: Now another thing is in England itself like Birmingham and all these places to spread Sahaj yoga one of the ways is to present it in a dance drama you see is a good idea. To present the Kundalini the whole of Dhara, the whole, How God has created the universe, and all these things if you put it through as Vidya it is more entertaining and it goes into the mind much more easily through emotional upheaval in a personality so that could be done also. And also I have asked some poets who are very good singers who have said that they would like to do it. But only problem with them is that the language you see. With the western people they can understand dance, they can understand say drama to some extent but other things, because this is an audio visual other things are not such successful things. So we will try that but first let us just try with the dance and I will work out themes with them even in Australia, or anywhere, Birmingham anywhere even Indians would like to come to such a place, so we can work it out and that’s the way we are going to sort of propagate about Sahaja Yoga, alright?
Yogi: The evolution of Kundalini
Shri Mataji: The evolution of Kundalini. Are we going to tell him, I will sit down with him I will explain to him, talk to him tell him all about it, the relationship of all the incarnations how the incarnations have gone in. It’s a new theme altogether, it is Vidya dimension. I will talk to him and tell him all about it and one day we will sit down and then we will sort it out. If not this year next year and whatever it is he will prepare it. It is not difficult for you to manoeuvre it, it is very simple. You see the manoeuvring is not is not difficult for him at all. It is a manipulation of the theme. But the theme has to be given to him that’s all. That I will manage but you find out like in Cambridge or anywhere.
Shri Mataji: (Speaks in Indian Language) . He is going to Holland on 12th August, and he could go easily to Paris or some place close by
Yogi: Speaks in Indian Language and English we could be available that weekend 12th is Janmastami, Thursday, and Saturday before that is (???) 9-11 we could do that weekend.
Shri Mataji: See now, Paris people can think about it. If it is possible you take his address and his telephone number, alright? That is one of the Vidya which will really be very good to communicate.
Yogi: Yes Mother
Shri Mataji: And also you should discuss how much we are going to organise, how much we are going to pay, whatever it is so that is between you and him, I have nothing to do.
Yogi: More than anything I will do that for Mothers blessing, as yet to the finance, but I said more than that I am looking for Mothers blessing.
Yogi: Mother (does this??) and our reaction shows it, but this still belongs to the rules of the game that should be absolutely settled and just and alright.
Shri Mataji: Nobody should be exploited in Sahaja Yoga. No exploitation is to be done, nothing of the kind because you see nobody needs money, nobody needs. This is a place that God in a way has given us free (Speaks in Indian Language) so that is, but nobody should suffer on account of Sahaja yoga that is one of the principles. So many principles there are, and one of them, was not to do anything illegal and some people put the posters it is nice that they have paid the fines.
Yogi: Mother Once that his production is up and what he desires to be, and that he expresses something of Kundalini it could be something that is taken on video and be circulated on this basis with some kind of financial arrangement that’s also a possibility.
Shri Mataji: Yes you can do it Yogi: You see……
Shri Mataji: Once I prepared the whole theme talked to him, you see, I will tell him about Kundalini everything but he must get his realisation fully, and then I will explain to him everything. (Speaks in Indian Language) Alright? It is a beautiful combination, he is from Maharastra and she’s from Bengal, see beautiful both countries are, both provinces very much gifted with art you see, but Bengal is another art and what art is performing so is from you people, can you imagine, that is a very good combination.
Yogi: We are very fortunate to have met them Mother.
Shri Mataji: It is all Sahaja. I suddenly discovered him I don’t know how, still I don’t remember how we discovered him suddenly. (Speaks in Indian Language)
Yogi: Sahaja Yoga
Shri Mataji: Sahaja Yoga. I just don’t remember what happened really how he got there Yogi: he rang Gavin, you rang Gavin
Shri Mataji: But how (Speaks in Indian Language) why did you ring?
( This next piece in brackets was difficult to hear)
(Dancer Yogi: Somebody telephoned me and said would Holy Mother like to come and I said I would say something? I said yes I must come, and I telephoned your address? and I spoke to them and told them if anything have been given if I have to buy tickets for everybody I will come. And I was here That’s how I came and I would perform once, That’s how I came and I was here)
Shri Mataji: I think Raja? Told someone, perhaps, he is another very fine soul. So any other questions for my travelling and all that we will discuss about it later.
Yogi: Could I ask? SM”. Yes yes yes
Yogi: It’s really on behalf of my wife Patricia although she’s probably not fond of it. The cool breeze in the mouth? Because when Pat gets angry with people who doubt it and she shouts at them and she gets a cool breeze in the mouth
Shri Mataji: That’s the Divine flowing, Yogi: Is it?
Shri Mataji: Yes if they doubt you had better shout because these are the bhoots that talk. If somebody is a very sensitive person. I went to buy some tights in the shop and just like that you know my husband has a big car and a chauffeur and all that. He has been there before, and that day I just went with Nick in our car, and the fellow, the salesman, suddenly, I don’t know what happened to him, he asked Nick who is this lady? He said why? I feel some majesty is walking in. I mean in a shop so he must also be getting also her majesty the Queen like that might be walking. I said really? I said what is he saying to you he said, Mother he wants to know about you, very insistent, somehow or other he is absolutely spellbound. I said alright then tell him. Well he was not impressed by anyone else so far so it’s the sensitivity of a person and if that person was doubting all the time they must know that there is something wrong. I have seen Sahaja Yogis when they go
out they start saying things which are, something I can’t believe it, so the doubting comes from them and sometimes if you shout it will help maybe, then the cool breeze starts coming the Kundalini, you see the Kundalini it becomes wild, it becomes wali?…Language? Speech, speech. First it is para, you know that, Parashanti? and know it and then becomes the wali? When it speaks that means you are blessed by the Divine, all the deities are happy with you. Shri Ganesha is especially is very happy and that Shri Krishna is out and out with his sudarsharna. That means that also is your Vishuddhi is great to get the cool breeze from the mouth is a good thing. But you are so correct in Sahaja Yoga you have been the way you have settled down was remarkable a great quality, isn’t she
Shri Mataji: this is a great quality, I mean you are an actress you have been an actress and for an actress to suddenly take to Sahaja yoga like that is something remarkable, I can’t imagine. (Mark D?) is another one, both of you. Was great remarkable, great quality.
Yogi: Thank you for My wife Mother
Shri Mataji: Very proud, ???? I mean he had a horrible experience of Sahaja yoga (Speaks in Indian Language)
Fynn Robertson: Mother why does Shri Ganesha hold a rope Mother and a goad?
Shri Mataji: Otherwise who will do the job? Specially in Scotland (laughing) where they are drunk from 12 o’clock onwards. Hah? It’s Shri Ganesha has to use all that!
Fynn Robertson: To beat them with it Mother?
Shri Mataji: Ha! (talking to Pratap Pawar) Scotlandtza ahe, amtza ashram tithe (Marathi: He’s from the ashram in Scotland)
Yogi: Mother, I have a question Mother, first in French because my English is so poor
Shri Mataji: OK I will give you his background. He is a journalist and he has a lot of enquiries in the spiritual field
G: And his question at this stage, from Switzerland his question, it doesn’t…his question he is that a little bit he cannot relate to the fact that we use so much personified deities, Durga and Bhairava are not demons. I am sorry so he does not understand all the personal aspects of the deities. Is it not dangerous to play with all this?
Shri Mataji: No no Not at all, you see first you understand them and then you will know but it is dangerous if you don’t know their protocol what they represent, then it will be dangerous. But in Sahaja Yoga they know that you are ignorant they know you are children, they forgive you, they look after you, they play some tricks that’s all.
Shri Mataji: What is it? You answered it. Now what I am saying that in Sahaja Yoga as I have told you today that they should not run into any conclusions for them if it is a hypothesis alright let them have the hypothesis. Come along see for yourself, work it out, because it is a new dimension into which you are coming. As I have told that it is not a mental projection, it is not just a conception, it is what it is, so please keep your eyes open, come inside and see for yourself everything, verify it, and this is a dangerous time because once you become realised you start doubting and that’s the
time you get out. So you have to be very steady because that’s the seedling time that’s the seedling time.
Now there is a centripetal force and a centrifugal force in Sahaja Yoga so by one force you are attracted and by another you are thrown away to a tangent. So by staying in it you oblige yourself you do not oblige anybody else, it is an obligation on yourself, alright?
Yogi: What to do when you are in a sentimental mood? I think that is one question. Shri Mataji: What did he say?
Yogi: What to do when you are in a romantic mood? I think that was the question.
Shri Mataji: You are too young for that! You see romantic mood is also not a bad thing, it is not a bad thing at all, you see it is one of the moods of God himself, there is nothing wrong, but you cannot be all the time with everyone in a romantic mood. It is only with your wife you can be and you have no wife so I don’t know how you can be.
You see perverted romance is not romance, at all, is not romance is perverted. Is romance in privacy with your wife in privacy in all sacredness, such complications have been created out of romance these days, but I am shocked. It is a psychological, they have become psychopaths with this kind of a romance that’s all. I mean amazingly it’s so funny that I just cant understand how human beings can get into such nonsensical state, I mean when I talk to people who are patients? I am amazed.
Is there any…Chris? Chris what is happening about your thesis? Chris: It is coming along Mother.
Shri Mataji: What else?
No questions? Who is there?
Isabel: It is Isabel
Shri Mataji: Yes Isabel what is it? Not in Italian.
Yogi: She would like to know what is your dearest desire now
Shri Mataji: Mine? You don’t know I am desireless. Really I am desireless I don’t know what is my desire, I am sorry.
Yogi: Mother you are the desire of somebody, so……
Shri Mataji: Yes I am the desire of somebody, so ask the person. Yogi: ?????
Shri Mataji: You see only the whatever is (Purna?) is complete. Has no no desire. Only thing I can think of is that you all become complete. But that cannot be a desire, that can be a blessing. If you accept the blessings you will become. That’s what it is. It is a question of your freedom whether you want to accept it, if you do not want to accept it I cannot force, but to me the greatest blessing that you should ask is that you should become complete. When you become blissful how can you have desires, when you become the giver how can you have desires. You just give you cant take anything. So what can you desire?
Yes John what is it?
John: Mataji, may we have a Puja for Janmastami on the 3rd August?
Shri Mataji: Yes yes, of course somebody is becoming a great Pujari!
Now, He did thousand names of Shri Ganesha and then thousand names of Guru (speaks in Indian language) The thousand names of Shri Ganesha and thousand names of Guru he did I mean it’s a tremendous thing to us.
Yogi: (Speaks in Indian Language)
Shri Mataji: Speaks in Indian Language). Those who are not against me are with me. (Speaks in Indian Language again)
Did you say something?
Yogi: I didn’t Ma.
Shri Mataji: No, You did put your hand up? No? somebody here?
Shri Mataji: Ricardo Yes
Shri Mataji: Ah this is Rodrigo Yes
Yogi: Ah Rodrigo, Sorry
Rodrigo: I wold like to ask you what is the difference between the silence of the central path and the love and devotion that comes from the left heart?
Yogi: The difference between the silence of Sushummna and the love and devotion of the left side what is the difference? What is the connection, sorry.
Yogi: The love of the left heart
Shri Mataji: I mean left heart is a thing of emotions youcan say or we can say it is the seat of the spirit and spirit is silence. If you mean left heart means spirit, spirit is silence, it is at the axis? At the axis What do you say axis in French?
Yogi: In Lisle it was in May last May you said we didn’t have to work on new people we should work you said with our attention only, but I do not know I feel that I have to work on people.
Shri Mataji: Robert, you are alright, you should work with your hands with everything it was meant for some other people. You see some people who are not yet done, who are not yet alright or are half baked, they start working they will have problems, they will give me problems. You see it is alright for you, perfectly alright, you are really great, you have come out of that horrible Rajneesh and you have achieved such a thing. I just I must say its congratulations to you ten times. You are a real seeker, you are a real seeker no doubt. It’s tremendous. So whatever I say to others is not meant for you its for mediocres. You can do whatever you like depends on you see everybody cannot, supposing you don’t know how to cook, if somebody asks you to cook what do you make out of it. So I must have warned them. The main is very mediocre, very mediocre, we have one person there great the rest is all nonsense,
Yogi: Do you know
Shri Mataji: Katyas husband
Robert: There was a program in Ghent and I spoke and it was great and there were about 40 people got their realisation.
Shri Mataji: Good. I will make it one day to Belgium somehow in between I will find out one or two days when I come back from Russia, alright?
Yogi: Mother Not before you come to Yorkshire. Shri Mataji: What is?
Yogi: Not before you come to Yorkshire.
Shri Mataji: I really don’t know how I am placed with anything, I have to again go through that what you have written it’s so many times changed, so many times changed, that you cant imagine. So we have to go through it again and sort it out, and of course I am coming to Yorkshire, thats promised. Now I would say that we have to sit down in my room to sort out my program. Any suggestions for a program you have to give. You tell me, or should I do one thing today sort it out and we get him put up on the notice board and then you tell me what you want me to change.
Yogi: Mother, I think for us you have got Shri Mataji: You have got
Yogi: We have got professional arrangements for you Mother, we can discuss it and put it up while people are still here so that they can…….
Shri Mataji: That’s what I am saying, today we will do it sit down and we will do it, alright Gregoire? G: Because I am leaving tomorrow morning early so I would like to be sure
Shri Mataji: Early in the morning?
Shri Mataji: What time?
G: My flight is at 10 o’clock
Shri Mataji: Oh
G: So I would like to be sure that the 25th September
Shri Mataji: I am going to Vienna, that
G: OK thank you.
Yogi: Mother can you speak to us about the signification of the story of Adam and Eve.
Shri Mataji: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. You are facing the pope recently, what is the problem about it? Yogi: I think it would interest the Italians to know.
Shri Mataji: I don’t know the story you tell me. You see bible was written from the extracts that people received from the unconscious. It is not a the complete books, you cannot say have come through meditation efforts from meditative expressions or manifestations. Alright? For example a person like St Paul to be included in bible I mean I don’t know what is the justification what is the authority. How could you do it. He was not a realised soul you can see that very clearly.
Yogi: Mother in the story of Adam and Eva there is one point which maybe I can just mention is that all men suffering from one first sin is that there was a tree in the garden of paradise? (??? Is it another Kundalini that the???………)
Shri Mataji: An Ankashtita??
G: An Ankashtita? Right
Yogi: May I make another point. About the garden of Eden, Garden of Eden is mooladhara, is like mooladhara, innocence,
Shri Mataji: Alright
Yogi: and also the other point that you cannot eat of the tree of knowledge until you have reached?? of the tree of life.
Shri Mataji: What else?
Yogi: The tree of life is the Kundalini
The tree of knowledge is like avidya. You cannot eat of the tree of knowledge until you have eaten of the Tree of life. That’s why it was avidya.
Shri Mataji: It is avidya, It has to (rise?) today is the time you can eat. I don’t understand it is such a symbolic thing. The whole thing is like I will appear before you like tongues of flames, I asked them what is it? Will you be able to ?? The tree of life itself they cannot explain it is too symbolic for a western mind. It’s alright for Indians. They dont understand symbolism because they are too direct.
Shri Mataji: I don’t say that. Now for example why do you worship a flag? It’s a symbol isn’t it? Respect a flag, why? It’s a symbol. But now the main thing that has happened in the west through this mental projection which is another horrible attack is they have no respect for anyone whatsoever, have no respect.
Yogi: Mother there is someone (inaudible piece) a bit…..good
Yogi: Some people were worried about it, it is alright.
Shri Mataji: So see, what is the attack is, in the mental way what you have done is attacked the very basis of respect because respect is not a concrete gross stuff. And they say if you respect someone that means you have certain weaknesses. It is the worse thing that can happen to human beings. I mean if they do not have respect they are not even human beings I would say.
Shri Mataji: So how will they understand any symbols, and bible is a thing which is given to people who don’t understand symbolism. But still I mean they have raised so many churches, things, out of, I don’t know what they are up to. I don’t know. That the priest puts a bread in the mouth and he says this is the flesh of Christ you eat, it is too much, too much isn’t it.
Yogi: They believe it Mother
Shri Mataji: You want to eat his flesh, already you have crucified him now you want to eat his flesh or what, just think of it, it is absurd.
What’s the matter?
G: He shakes a little bit should he put his hand outside Mother
Shri Mataji: Alright, it’s alright, you come around here, you come to me, left hand towards me, right hand outside. Yes he’s been to some Guru or someone.
Yogi: Yes it’s going Mother it’s going.
Shri Mataji: Alright it doesn’t matter put his left hand towards me right hand outside (Speaks in Indian Language)
Yogi: Put the left hand towards Mother and the right hand outside Shri Mataji: Help him a little
Shri Mataji: Just help him
Yogi: Say that how Mother is really simple, sorry
Shri Mataji: I am a very simple person. I should have two horns here, is it? Everything that is normal is simple. I don’t know what is to be proud of, I don’t understand I mean what is there whatever I am I am what is there to be proud of it? You will be proud because you have achieved something, I have achieved nothing I have achieved nothing whatever, I am, I am like this so what is there to be proud of? You could be proud, alright?
Yogi: Why Mother
Shri Mataji: Because you have achieved you were not born with this awareness you have achieved something, you should be proud But why should I be? I have to be simple absolutely, it is the simplest thing. (Speaks in Indian Language)
Shri Mataji: Whatever is said I will do that. It will become a little complicated. AH, but I am not so simple as you think, specially you know that very well. Ah (speaks in Indian Language). Alright? So be careful it is all in a camouflage. So well done
Yogi: Yes Mother
G: So Mother still what should we be proud of, because even death by which we please you comes from you.
Shri Mataji: You see but what I am saying you can at least feel that you have achieved something, isn’t it, something achieved isn’t it if that means pride. If, I mean pride comes because you have achieved something in life,here I have not achieved nothing whatsoever.
Yogi: Yes I understand Mother
Shri Mataji: You see if I have to be proud I can be proud of my Sahaja Yogis, but they themselves have achieved so they can be more proud than me. How can I be more proud than them? But good to
have pride. There is a difference between vanity and pride, is pride is means you have achieved really something and you are proud of it, and vanity means you have achieved nothing and you are proud.
Shri Mataji: (speaks in Indian Language)
You just came and slept here yes? They don’t need but when they are in that state so they can feel it you see?
Yogi: (speaks in Indian language) Shri Mataji: That’s it.
Yogi: Could it not be that you have earned your position in this life? Could it not be that you have earned what you are in this life?
Shri Mataji: nothing doing I have been zero, I am zero, I will be zero. Absolutely
Yogi: I wish to know something about compassion and charity, if it is correct I can go to understand. You have said to somebody that it is not necessary to…..???
Yogi: He would like to know the difference between compassion and charity because he heard that you suggested that humanitarian actions are not necessarily good.
Shri Mataji: Ah Hah. I didn’t say they are not good, but what I am saying that when you become realised say what I am now, say I cure somebody, so supposing so called, so what I do I put my hand and a person becomes cured, alright? Now I didn’t cure him, nothing of the kind, what happened do see he is part and parcel of my being, who is the other? But if there is no feeling of the other, then there is compassion, it just flows, it’s part and parcel within yourself that you cure someone. Because something within you is suffering you just cure it. It is for yourself you don’t do it for others. There is nobody is the other, who is the other? This is compassion, and the basis of charity is wrong because somebody is the other. Like we all, one lady in India who was now, has received a ?? Or something,
Shri Mataji: Red Cross, she has received the highest, Nobel Prize or something I don’t know, alright, I, ah, yes. Now this lady if you see her you will be amazed, she is beyond redemption I think. She is so hot tempered, wow, you cannot talk to her, she gives such hot vibrations and her Kundalini is frozen down, and she gets Nobel Prize. What she does she collects money from people, gets some poor people in the house, gives them their, they die, so called under her care. Alright that is not Gods job that is your job. That’s Human beings job, you have created poverty, you have created problem why did the English went to India? Why English went to rule us? Why did they? We have become poor now you had better pay for it. Are English willing to pay for what they have done to rectify, on the contrary they don’t even allow Indians to come down here. You see who has done this who has created the poverty. It is you the Human beings, you better correct it yourself. God has nothing to do with it, and then you develop egos, oh we have done this, we have done this charity, we have brought these forefathers of this Madam Theresa only did all in this Bengal. That’s why people are poor and now this woman is taking the credit for it. She has nothing in her she is absolutely a hot paan, you know a little water you pour on her she will dissolve. (Speaks in Indian Language). Very hot tempered She made such a fuss one day when I was travelling by plane you can’t imagine, she was jumping from here to there, there to there, she stopped the plane, she did everything, she wanted the front seat because she was Madam Theresa, that time she didn’t have a Nobel Prize and there were two or three sick peo;le who were travelling but she wouldn’t listen. I was in the same plane, horrible I said who is this horrible woman, she said I am Mother Theresa. He said whatever Mother you may be but these people are sick and you better
sick at the back because this seat is reserved mother. And she wouldn’t allow the plane to go , such an ego oriented woman.
Yogi: She does good work Mother, she does good works
Shri Mataji: What? So called? First you create a problem and then do it and then have Nobel prizes for that. Alright, and then be satisfied you have done great jobs. I tell you only because she is a catholic she has got this Nobel Prize thing. This is absolutely menial job, it’s menial, it’s Shudra, this is Shudra samstita?
It is a collective sin, it is a collective sin you see? Collective sin, is ignorance, colonisation is a collective sin. Colonisation is a collective sin, alright? It is a collective sin. Now when you committed a sin and whatever the wages of the sin are to rectify it you form another organisation out of which one person goes and helps those people alright, when you help them and then the same organisation gives her a Nobel prize it is a big joke going on. You see the point?
Yogi: All the colonisation……………
Shri Mataji: Who asked them, who asked these funny people to go and completely finish all these South Africans and South, I mean, Americans? Now you see it’s such a drama that it’s like you have a what you call a climax and an anticlimax, you see it’s like this, first of all you have the climax of destruction and then the anticlimax. You see. What is there to help?
Only the spirit is to be helped. That’s Gods work. I asked somebody why the Christians took to missionary work so they told me that when Christ was to be crucified before that Mary Magdalene brought some expensive oil, wanted to anoint his feet with that, and this Peter the Great, you see he said that why do you want to waste this precious oil on his feet why not give it to the poor? So Christ said these poor are always with us, this means are a headache forever. Alright? But I am for a short time, that means spiritual life is for a short time. That doesn’t mean, that doesn’t mean by any chance that you have to make poor suffer, it doesn’t mean by any chance, but you create poverty and disparities, and you try to correct them is your own gain, is the gain of Human beings, God has nothing to do with it. It has no spiritual significance I mean to say, can you explain. Sahaja Yoga is going to work out for the people of middle path, neither for the already rich, they are already doomed forever, and nor for the very poor which may be (sinned?) later on.
Yogi: Middle class
Shri Mataji: That’s an abuse in English Language you see, In India middle class means the class which looks after the virtues, looks after the values, looks after all the traditions of the country that is the middle class. Is the most precariously placed class is middle class in India. But this is a funny country I asked why is the middle class so bad because they don’t pay their taxes. In India the rich don’t pay their taxes, how can the middle classes can not pay their taxes most of them are bureaucrats and the government takes away their taxes before they get their pay. I don’t know why this idea of middle class does existing here. Here the kings and queens had no morality who would like to be of their category, I don’t understand. But this is what it is they have condemned somebody as Middle class and don’t know why they condemned poor middle class is the one which is trying to keep all the traditions of the world.
So it is for the middle path like the river flows in the centre and when it is increased in size it engulfs both the sides in it and so maybe some rich might come like Raja?? which has now joined us or somebody like that some maybe some rich people may be there but it is the poor who will be helped the most of all with Sahaja Yoga later on because they don’t have to pay for their curing they don’t have problems with money once yoga is established because Kshama will be established like that. So many things can be done.
I will give you an example of Moiras? Father, Patile? he has now departed. He was a poor man and he came to Sahaja Yoga and he got his realisation and then every time he came he used to
bring a very nice garland for me all the way from ?? Which is about ten miles from Bombay. So I told him why do you spend so much money each time for a garland he said Mother with your grace I am now well off, I was amazed he told me he has a plot of land which he was using for tilling and all that which was not yielding much price to him. Well one day a rich man came to him and he said that this soil is very good now and if you can allow me to use this clay I can make nice bricks and he has started paying me for that clay.
Shri Mataji: As Shri Krishna has said (Speaks in Indian Language). See this grand place you have got the hotel that you had, can you forget all these things what you got out of nothing. Somebody told me today this ambassador that his daughter is educating herself and she is staying in the YMCA where the food is wretched and the room is to be shared where there is no bathrooms at all, few bathrooms in terrible condition and she has to pay £30 per week. £30 per week can you imagine? Count your blessings one by one,
May God bless you all.
So I will take your leave because I have to discuss these things and then I have to go home alright?
(Speaks in Indian Language). He came to me from this place, Mr What’s his name, Nick, Nicholas where are you? How is your Swadishthan now?
Nick: It is getting better Mother, a little bit.
Shri Mataji: Better, alright.
Shri Mataji: So you have given the address and everything to him. Now all those people who would like to write to me should take down the address of Mr. P? From the notice board and should write to him if you have any idea of arranging any program. This year or next year, whatever it is, alright? So you take his address all of you will you please take down his address and contact him? I have given him the idea that one of the weekdays he can come here and teach dancing to people here in this hall, one of the days is when it is suitable to you and to him. And we can poll people from outside here we can advertise also so that a contact and a record is established and he can charge them what he wants and he can teach them. Only for Sahaja yogis he may give some concession and of course you are not going to start dancing are you?. All the people under ten should join or we will have a headache (Speaks in Indian Language). Really? he says all of you can learn dancing.
Dance Teacher: I had three generations learning it at one time, the grandfather and grandmother and daughter then the granddaughter.
Shri Mataji: Alright then those who want to join can join him here also he will find out a suitable timing, so you write it down, telephone to him find out from him and then we can advertise outside also for other people to come here, alright? And whatever are his charges we are going to pay him as is the tradition of Sahaja Yogis is. Those who want to learn. Are you thinking ??
Yogi: A trio Ma, we are thinking of a trio, and Gregoire as well.
Shri Mataji: Ha ha ha (Speaks in Indian Language)
Alright, Whatever it is he is willing to do it, and there is one Mr M? Who can teach you tabla if you want, we can ask him also to come and teach you tabla and there is another one I met (Speaks in Indian)
Shri Mataji: Arshad? who was playing the violin, he may teach you something. Arshad? the one who was playing the violin we can contact him also, he is a nice young man (Speaks in Indian Language). Like that, so you can learn from them also , alright?
May God Bless you.
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi