How to Deal with Bhoots, Guru Purnima Seminar, Day 3

Nirmala Palace - Nightingale Lane Ashram, London (England)

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Guru Purnima Seminar Day 3, 5 July 1982, Nirmala Palace, Nightingale Lane Ashram, London (UK) How to deal with bhoots.

Shri Mataji: To me I think August is a better idea.

Warren Reeves: There’s no problem with Scotland either Mother. Gavin said he could adjust accordingly. Just, whatever you choose, for Switzerland, he can adjust Scotland accordingly.

Shri Mataji: Do what you please. I mean, I would say, do what you please. Because I have given this timing. August I just thought would be cool but, if September is better, then I’ll come in September. I mean, if this can bring more people according to him. You see we have to be pragmatic.

Warren: Mmm.

Bridget: Yes but we are not sure that it will be more; we can’t be sure.

Shri Mataji: So, what I am saying anyway is, you go and see for yourself, if the hall is done. I mean, still there’s time. All right?

Bridget: Yes Mother

Shri Mataji: Well and good; if not I’ll come. Whatever you say

Warren: Mother originally thought August was the best time. That was her original schedule.

Shri Mataji: But he told me, Mathias told me, that, if you can have more people. You see, my main thing is that, you should see the essence: I want to go there.

What about tea these people will they have tea?

Warren: Don’t trouble yourself Mother.

Bridget: Only that we can say that we tried to discuss all our offers: the date and so on, not the date because you weren’t saying the date you want. And so it was just by luck like that, by himself, that it was changed.

Shri Mataji: No, no, of course! You keep it. I am perfectly all right. And Mathias is not sure of that, so you tell him that Mother said that it’s all right for me. If he has got the hall, you have got everything, that means it is sahaja.

Because now my stay is spread out a little, [so] it came out, the idea, that in any case it is spread out, so I can do it. But I will be better off there in August, I personally think, from my point of view, because it is very cold; I don’t like it. If it is very hot also I don’t like it. But you can manage heat, but you can’t manage cold!

Bridget: Mother at the last programme in Melbourne we had a few people coming getting Realisation and then coming afterwards and one of the ladies is about to have an operation and it was difficult for us to see whether she should go through with this operation or not. It’s in the intestines.

Shri Mataji: Let her know.

Yogini: This is her picture Mother. She wanted me to show you.

Shri Mataji: Yes, I think that she’s catching on the heart, on the heart. If you think all the time about other things than the Spirit, you develop all these problems. Better think about the Spirit!

He felt Left Nabhi. Is she married?

Bridget: No Mother.

Shri Mataji: What?

Bridget: No Mother…I don’t know.

Shri Mataji: Left Nabhi is the catch in England. But you can overcome it. Marriage is for having children. If she develops that feeling, which Genevieve has done, then you can do it.

Warren: Bridget! Your little boys!

Shri Mataji: You have overcome your Left Nabhi. Now, you get little bit.

Warren: Bridget! (Calling in background) Your little boy is…

Bridget: No, no, no, no. No, Mother

Shri Mataji: If you develop that feeling. You see she is not married, but you can get over your Left Nabhi by thinking that you are living for others, for other children. You see they are your children: if you develop that Motherhood without getting married, there’s no need to have a marriage.

Yogi: But we have so many children now.

Shri Mataji: We have so many children. They are all your children isn’t it.

Be comfortable. And maybe that, that thing is making you rather uncomfortable. You can pull it out.

Yogini: Christian is staying in London for 6 weeks Mother

Shri Mataji: Who?

Yogini: Christian is staying in London for 6 weeks Mother

Shri Mataji: Good, good, that’s a good idea, that’s good.You must bring some speed in Sahaja Yogis here. They must be sent to Switzerland and Swiss people should come here.

Warren: Ah that raises another question Mother, the young boy Robbert (Ruigrok) from Belgium, he is in a little dilemma. He would like to stay for a few days just to get more experience. He would like to come with me to Brighton tonight. I am going down there. And he has a little programme in Brussels tonight and he was wondering whether to stay for a few days to get some extra experience or whether to go back. Do you think that he should stay for a while, he’d like to, in all honesty.

Shri Mataji: I think he should.

Warren: He only has one or two people coming regularly and he could ring them up.

Shri Mataji: Yes, he can. He should stay it would be better. He’s perfect.

Warren: He’s very good Mother. He’s gone into it so thoroughly and so assiduously.

Shri Mataji: Remarkable! He’s remarkable! Pure intelligence! From Rajneesh, can you imagine?

Warren: Really?

Shri Mataji: Yes!

Warren: My God.

Shri Mataji: He came with those clothes I believe.

Warren: You gave him Realisation in Paris, and he came then I said, “Why don’t you come to London?” and he came to London.

Shri Mataji: He was from Rajneesh.

Yogi: Really? How amazing!

Shri Mataji: And he was horrible when he came here.

Warren: He stayed in a hotel I remember.

Shri Mataji: Right heart. Ravana. Right heart – Ravana.

Warren: That explains my dream Mother.

Shri Mataji: What are you talking?

Warren: I had a very big dream, you were talking to me. I don’t know what you were saying but at the end of the conversation the last sentence you said, “You see even Ravana was a realised-soul.” that’s all.

Shri Mataji: Yes I mean a realised-soul doesn’t mean that you pass out (your exams)! (laughing) That’s what I mean: it doesn’t mean that you pass out. You have to develop. You have to become.It’s so simple. I mean I don’t know how you people don’t understand.  Supposing the seed sprouts, it doesn’t become a tree does it? You have to become the tree. A realised-soul doesn’t mean…

Warren: Yes ha ha, you are supposed to go that way not that way

Shri Mataji: On the contrary when they become realised-souls, they think that now we have become a big tree. First you have to work out downwards, then upwards.

Today I talked to Dr Singh. I said, “I want to know what is the problem with these people the intellectuals, what are they quarrelling about: these dvaitas and advaitas? Duality and similarity. And why were they are criticising Adi Shankaracharya?” And what he told me was very interesting. He said, “Because they were arguing, Shankaracharya could not tell them, so he stopped Vivekachudamani and all that. He wrote all these treaties in philosophy. And he said that better talk about Chaitanya Lahari and Saundarya Lahari, all these vibrations. Better not talk about it.

He just stopped talking about Vivekachudamani and all these treaties and that’s how people said he’s lost this argument. I said, “That’s true, he had a little limitation – he could not give them their Realisation.” If he had given them Realisation then you can talk! They are not at that point that you can talk about it: that it’s all God, everything is God. But he’s not [the] rock of Gibraltar! It’s so simple. Everything is so simple.

Warren: Mother perhaps you would be good enough to just repeat those few words about pragmatism. Perhaps you would be prepared to talk about it.

Shri Mataji: I have not taken my breakfast, I think. Tell him that I’ll eat only a little bit of a something.

You see in this house we have so many presents where you place what? This I got in Spain, somebody gave me as a present. So sweet of them! When will I use all that? I don’t know.

So what did you want? You said pragmatic?

Warren: Just to speak about what you were saying Mother.

Shri Mataji: You see ‘pragmatic’ is like this: like at the time of say Mohammed Sahib, so many men were killed, and there were very few men and many women. So for the society the laws were formed according to the pragmatic values: that is [that] so many men are there and so many women are there. So he thought that let us have the right proportion of men to the women. All right? So to achieve maximum morality, maximum morality in the society: because if you say that only one woman for one man then the remaining women will be left; and naturally they are not realised-souls, they cannot control themselves, there will be a problem. So all right, five women for one man is all right. Then there were some young girls who could be married, may not be married, because people didn’t want to marry young girls at that time because the sensitive people don’t want to marry young girls because very young girls are like their daughters you see. If you are a sensitive person cannot have feeling for a young girl, you cannot. So, just to cut it down at that point, that kind of a feeling [He said] “All right, marry a young girl also.” Because what will happen to the young girls? Nobody will marry them. It’s the other way round.

Now today the society is just the other way round. I would say that in England if you can have shariat will be a good idea; not in Riyadh. But it won’t work out. You can’t have shariat. You cannot say that if this man looks at a woman he must be killed with stoning. Can you do that? You cannot have this principle here; that’s not the position here. So what have you to do? We have to be pragmatic. For a place like the Western countries, what should we do? What is the law that will suit them? Tell me.

Dr. Bogdan Shehovych: Not to make eyes you mean? Not to make eyes at women. I mean, you shall not sin with your eyes?

Shri Mataji: What is the law? You should not see?

Dr. Bogdan: You should not sin with your eyes.

Shri Mataji: That’s true, but that’s after Sahaja Yoga. Before Sahaja Yoga? When the people think, “What’s wrong?” What should God do at this point?

This is after Realisation, of course, it’s all right: you know for the definite. But before Realisation what should be the law? What should be the pragmatic situation, of God? What is pragmatic law?

Warren: Try somehow to find a way to re-establish dharma, I mean it’s…

Shri Mataji: It’s all right, that is for incarnations has to come.

Warren: Ok. So he has to play tricks. He has to use the ego, maybe the superego, as a means of getting people to change.

Shri Mataji: When they have gone that bad, as they have gone bad now, allow them to destroy themselves: let them get cancers, let them get all physical problems, then let them get all the dirty diseases, when they indulge into these things, let them get bad eyes, let them get all kinds of problems physically, then mentally, let them be confused, let them commit suicide. Let them be condemned by themselves. When they are going on and on with it let them be finished by themselves. Let them be absolutely crushed. Because they are playing tricks against God, you see. They are finding methods of tricking God. It’s all right, go ahead! Get yourselves completely destroyed. Now smoking: give up smoking, people have started. Younger people are not smoking. Drinking: give up drinking. It’s started. Close down their pubs then close down their racing courses, close down their seashores.

Warren: Close down our Soho!

Shri Mataji: Close down Soho, is it coming up?

Warren: I think it’s starting to go down a bit Mother. They are out of work.

Shri Mataji: So like Roman Empire: destroy! And this is the condition in which I have been working. Where you are just on the verge of getting destroyed [and] from there to pull you out. Because at that point only you will accept my situation, otherwise you will not accept it.

Just at the drowning point I have arrived to save you because otherwise you won’t listen to me. I am too good to be true. It’s a very delicate work. But when you are at the point of destruction then only you think of your identification with your Self. Till then you are identified with many other things.

Then real love for yourself comes in: “Oh I must save myself!” When that comes up that’s the basis of Sahaja Yoga at this time. Only at that point one can work out.

Then selfish love goes away, then perfectionist love comes in.

You see, you have to perfect yourself. This is the point.

I think you better stand with her left hand towards me, right hand to Mother Earth. Cleared out quite a lot. She’s better now, since yesterday she is better. But still, I will not say that because that again gives her an ego. So, now I am going to work it out a little strictly with her.

You see, everybody who is at the top has got this problem: Gavin his wife, Gregoire his wife, Mathias his wife, Warren his wife.

Yogini: Better I’m not married Mother!

Yogini: She’s afraid now to get married!

Another Yogini: You have to be ?? that’s all.

Shri Mataji: Yes, I mean you reach that conclusion. But that’s true. One reaches to that conclusion that’s true. One reaches that conclusion that: these nonsensical marriages, better not to have it! You have to have Sahaja Yoga.

You see, like Jane [Brown] and all that. I mean, I don’t know what to do with Jane. I don’t know what to do with Mathias’s wife. She said, “Mother when can we meet again in August?” I said, “Forget her! Just forget her!”

Warren: The milk is curdled, excuse me Mother.

Shri Mataji: She knows, you know. She’ll go on like this.

Catherine de Kalbermatten: I feel it here but…

Shri Mataji: But what?

Catherine: Here and there.

Shri Mataji: But why don’t you put in your will power?

Catherine: Yes.

Shri Mataji: Why don’t you get after yourself? Why do you give a way to these things? I had taken a promise from you that you will not cry even once. But why do you try these things again?

You know Gregoire is getting a repulsion for you, believe me. I am telling you. And then you don’t blame me later on! I am warning you!

Look at Mathias now: he does not know what to do with this woman. She plays tricks with him, with herself. Why is she doing it? Why you are not sincere to yourself? What is the pleasure? How can you be satisfied?

Watch your mind, what it teaches you. Why does it make you cry? Just think of it. I would like to know what it does to you. What does it teach you? What does it say to you? Does it say that you are very miserable, this, this?

Catherine: No.

Shri Mataji: Then what does it do? Just tell me that.

Catherine: I think it’s a lack of confidence in myself.

Shri Mataji: But how? How? That this is the basis, this is the trick! You are not! Actually, you are over-confident, because you have been able to destroy. Don’t think, don’t think, you lack in confidence. You are over-confident. Your bhoots are extremely confident. What makes you think you lack confidence?

Catherine: I feel pressure here.

Shri Mataji: That’s now; thats come up now. But otherwise it was coming from Left Swadishthana. And Left Swadishthana can never be lacking in confidence. They are doing anadhikaar cheshta, they are going against God. They are doing anti-God activities. Do you think that anybody will indulge into anti-God activity if they were afraid of themselves?

Warren: They must have absolute courage in fact.

Shri Mataji: Yes! These are all the tricks they play. Like even Jane [Brown] told me that, “Mother she is rejected by everyone.” I said, “Really?” Who told you that? I mean you create a situation in which everybody should reject you and then you make a capital out of it and say that everybody is rejecting you! Now tell me what is this?

Yogi: It’s a good trick

Shri Mataji: It’s very clever. Very clever I tell you. It’s a very clever thing, one should know. Why are you playing into the hands of the bhoots now? Why?

Raise yourself up! Rise above it. You have got the Kundalini. You have got the Kundalini with you. Then why should you worry? You have to be brave. What’s the use of getting Realisation if you are not going to be brave people?

Warren: And the trick is to be braver than the bhoots.

Yogini: The bhoots who has all the confidence and make you feel yourself unconfident.

Shri Mataji: No they don’t make you feel. You play tricks into their hands. It’s a trick, Ok?

It’s a trick.

Warren: You know you are not really under confident. That’s the spoken word. But in fact they are so damned confident that they tell you even to say, “I am not confident.”

Shri Mataji: They say everything. And then Sahaja Yoga is a very good method, because you know chakras, so you can say, “I am catching here, I am catching there. It’s the bhoot catching me.” Thats another trick!

Dr Bogdan: Mother after Guru puja, I felt that left-sidedness was an indulgence.

Shri Mataji: Absolutely, 100%, you have said it. Absolutely you have said it.

Dr Bogdan: It’s just pure indulgence.

Shri Mataji: “Our sweetest songs are those which sing of the saddest stories!” Imagine! You see this was sarcastically said by Shakespeare, because he was an avadhuta. It was said sarcastically. But nobody understood him. It’s a very great indulgence, absolutely. Just like alcohol.

Warren: This is the whole point that it’s indulging the bhoots. We should stand up to them.

Shri Mataji: “I am very miserable!” I have told you one mantra: “Count your blessings one by one!”

Now look at this one, their situation, I will tell you. Look at Jane [Brown]. Jane had landed herself into such a problematic situation that nobody would have accepted her at all. She had really ruined herself. But she was saved, she came back, she has such a sweet child like Olympia and she has a husband of a…count your blessings!

Look at her. Count her blessings: where she was and where she is. She had a mother who was so horrifying everything. She has a husband like Gregoire, she has a child like this one, and she is destroying him and destroying the child!

It’s an indulgence of a very sadistic, very sadistic temperament, and  better go on condemning yourself. Then only you will get rid of it. And you tell yourself that, “I am now enjoying the filth,” then only you will improve.

Absolutely, it’s an indulgence of the worst type. It’s an indulgence: right from alcohol to everything is an indulgence. It’s a habit you enjoy, and you don’t see how you are troubling others. Egotistical people are better, because whenever they trouble you can see obviously coming to you, but these so-called sympathy seekers, they don’t know how they torture others, create problems for others; make them miserable.

“All right,” I said, “come along! If you want to suffer, better suffer!” Like Jews: Have it! If you want Hitler you can have it! You’ll get a Hitler now! So enjoy that Hitlerism!

Warren: You were saying earlier Mother that we are all the time making rules for others and we forget about being strict with ourselves. This is very important.

Shri Mataji: That’s what I said that: your relationship with yourself should be of perfecting yourself. You should be a tyrant with yourself. Look at me: how tyrannical I am with myself.

You had terrible egos in the Guru puja. Sort of you felt that , “Oh we are the privileged ones!” sort of a thing was there; a little bit too much. So I broke my finger.

I am tyrannical with my body. The amount of work I do. The amount of exertion I put in. I am really tyrannical. Sometimes I really pity this body of mine. The amount of pressures I take upon myself. I’m really tyrannical towards myself.

I mean you to take out one bhoot, you will go mad! But how many bhoots I am taking out with me?

If you see your Mother: yesterday only, a letter came to me of a very little girl from there. She said, “You are making a burning forest out of your life! The way you work hard, your being is being really being made into a burning fire by you, the way you are burning yourself with fire. And you are rubbing yourself like a chandan.” (sandalwood). I am tyrannical with myself, you don’t know, absolutely tyrannical!

Yogini: May I ask you if we are thinking about that that we are making you suffering and so on, that we help to purify and to be better. Do you take my point?

Shri Mataji: Yes I understand that. Yes, that’s what I am doing.

Yogini: And so, If we are thinking of what we are doing to you Mother, we will be a more..

Shri Mataji: Yes, Because you are part and parcel of me.

Yogini: And now we have to think of very well.

Shri Mataji: All right. From that angle only, if you think, well and good. Otherwise if you can’t think of me, at least think of yourself; of perfecting yourself. If that you can think like that, you are very kind. But if you cannot be kind to me, at least be kind to yourself. Whichever way you move, you are got caught up.

Yogini: Yes we will.

Shri Mataji: Then dealing with the anyone you must be pure in relationships. If you are a Sahaja Yogi, that’s a Sahaja Yogi. Sahaja Yogi must deal with the Sahaja Yogi in the way Sahaja Yoga is. If he is a good Sahaja Yogi he must respect. If he is doing work for Sahaja Yoga he’s helping me.

But if there is a Sahaja Yogi say, a Sahaja Yogi who has been destroying Sahaja Yoga who has been troubling: be harsh! Be very harsh! But I have seen Sahaja Yogis will always sympathise with a person who is destructive, and will try to pull down a person who is constructive. Isn’t it true?

Warren: Absolutely true Mother. That is so precisely the problem.

Shri Mataji: When I said you must respect Sahaja Yogis: they will only respect a person who is a destructive person. The other day you see they are complaining to me first of all about Terry, who is the… His name is Terry? Kerry, Kerry! Somebody told me about him, first of all a complaint came in. So I said, “Who complained?” They said Susan. I said, “That’s it!” To begin with.

Miss Susan is a miserable creature which makes everybody miserable; but [she] is not miserable: she is quite smiley herself. I said, “Nothing doing! That’s not the thing!” And she is aware of it now. And then I asked her, I said, “Why were you upset?” So she said, “Mother really I don’t know why!” Now she’s reached that stage. She’s better now. She was like that. Now she’s much better. She’s much better and improving herself. She realised that this was a mistake with her and she is perfecting herself.

Then I asked Kerry: now Kerry is from Australia, everybody likes him. Vibration wise [he is] zero! What is wrong with Kerry? He started complaining about others. He has also has all the rules and regulations for others, but for himself he has no rules and regulations!

Warren: He’s a typical example!

Shri Mataji: He’s very good at making rules and regulations for others. Same with Mr Nick! All such people are very good organisers. But no rules and regulations for himself.

So, on these three points you topple down. So you have to be tyrannical with yourself; when you are dealing with other Sahaja Yogis you have to be respectful and kind and loving and affectionate. But with the Sahaja Yogis who are not Sahaja Yogis but who are destroying Gods work, you have to be harsh.

But if I scold somebody, I see everybody says, “Aaahhh, please, please! It’s all right. It’s all right.”

Warren: “What’s happened to Jane? Poor Jane!” You know, that’s how they were talking in the Ashram. It’s absolutely stupid.

Shri Mataji: Absolutely stupid! On the contrary you must support me.

Dr. Bogdan: Mother when you scold I have never felt ego pressure behind the scolding, that’s the difference.

Shri Mataji: Yes because you are a sensible man.

Yogi: It’s a privilege when Mother scolds.

Shri Mataji: It’s tyrannical for me also, to scold you. I don’t like it at all, scolding you.

Dr. Bogdan: But there’s not the same kind of pressure behind it. Means there is no ego behind it to make it negative. It’s a positive.

Shri Mataji: If you are sensible, I am trying to take out something from your heads, because unless and until I do that it won’t go away, I know that. You are much more sensible. But, say, Mandy is not so much sensible as you – she is not . So it’s a question of sensibility.

Gregoire used to scold me left and right. I mean, poor fellow, he would come down pulling his ears for the book, you know; poor fellow was writing a book, and on top of that I am sitting on his head all the time. I am telling him, “This is not sweet,” “this is not so correct, this that,” Poor fellow, dealing with me! I mean, I know everything how to do it, but the poor fellow! And he didn’t know what to do with himself. But he was a sensible man. He knew that, whatever I was doing, for him or for the book, was for the better, and he never objected. It’s to me, pure intelligence.

You are more intelligent than Mandy is definitely, definitely. No doubt. A sensible person means pure intelligence isn’t it! Sense comes from your intelligence only. It doesn’t come from education or anything it comes from within you; it’s the wisdom.

But now Mandy, for her child’s sake she realised, and she’s come up. Of course, I didn’t want to punish the child, but the child was punished by her family people only! Then she realised, and she came up.

Dr. Bogdan: It was both [of us], because I didn’t assert myself as her guru because I knew the truth and that’s compromised.

Shri Mataji: You were very compromised.

Dr. Bogdan:Yes I compromised a lot.

Shri Mataji: You see one can be henpecked if the wife is sensible, but if she is not then you become really ruined, absolutely. It’s the horrible thing to do, is to listen to your wife! Otherwise you should listen to your wife, if she is wise, because she’s shakti, she can tell you properly. But if she’s like this. Like Chaya we can say. Chaya is sensible.

Dr. Bogdan: Very nice.

Shri Mataji: She’ll bring him round [Regis]. She said, “Mother don’t worry, I will bring him back. One day he will be back.” She’s finding methods and ways!

Warren: That’s the pure quality of shakti.

Shri Mataji: In her own small way she will bring him. But she is really, very dynamic.

Dr. Bogdan: She’s a very humble lady.

Shri Mataji: Very humble. First day when I met her in India, after the whole episode she said, “Mother are my vibrations absolutely ruined or are they still there?” I said, “They are there.” She thought that fighting out these things she might have lost her vibrations. That’s all she wanted to ascertain. I said, “You are caught up but vibrations are all right [otherwise]. You are caught up.” That’s the thing!

Warren: What you have said Mother I think it is tremendously important and this is a new phase where we have to be absolutely strict within ourselves. We have to be absolutely disciplined within our own life…

Shri Mataji: Shri Krishna Himself who came as a collective being has said this: what he said [is] that, for a greater cause, a smaller thing can be sacrificed. Say you are working for your country, all right? Then you have to sacrifice your children. You love them but still.

Warren: Shri Ram did it, Shri Krishna did it.

Shri Mataji: Everybody did it. For a greater cause you have to give up something. That alternative remains.

Warren: In my own case Mother when I had to face this horrible problem that I had. I just felt like it was as if I was being destroyed. And then when I took a stand and I sent her out of the ashram and did what I had to do, it all started to work out.

Shri Mataji: But in your case luckily I must say, in his case, one thing would happen that the whole thing came up so speedily. Some people develop this disgust, then this, that, that, that – gradually. Then the another person starts becoming stronger, stronger, stronger, stronger still. But if you can do it with a little sharpness as he has done it, [then] you can do it.

Warren: You don’t give the bhoots a chance…

Shri Mataji: But your wife had no chance;

Warren: No, I don’t think she had [either].

Shri Mataji: Never she had. When he asked me I was shocked! I was really shocked, for one minute I didn’t say anything, I just kept quiet and then I said, “All right. I hope you’ll be happy.” That’s all. Hap-py (not joyful).

Warren: Yes you did Mother. [You were] not saying, ‘joy’.

Shri Mataji: This ego.

Warren: Ego pampering

Shri Mataji: I mean, really I can’t understand your choices.

Warren: It’s absolutely stupid Mother. But I am wiser for it. Thanks to you.

Shri Mataji: She’s not a Sahaja Yogi

Warren: Not at all, not at all. God knows what it was. But thanks to you Mother I have realised it now.

Shri Mataji: She will have to become a Sahaja Yogini. While Catherine is a Sahaja Yogini. She is.

Warren: Yes. It’s a different case.

Shri Mataji: It’s a different case altogether. She’s a different case. She’s not a Sahaja Yogini you see, [so] that’s a different thing.

Warren: But still the same approach from the man has to apply, it has to be firm.

Shri Mataji: If he wants to say. If he wants to say! And you too must apply the same tyrannical attitude towards yourself.

Warren: Same tyrannical attitude towards yourself. You must be very firm with yourself. So firm that you…

So these three principles in your relationships, if you can achieve: only the attitude, only the attitude. You have not achieved perfection; but attitude towards yourself be there. Because you want to offer yourself to God, and you don’t want to offer anything that is not perfect. Even if you make some embroidery for me, you make it beautifully. You want to give something, whatever is perfect. Even the small thing, you make then wear, you try to make it very, very perfect.

Now this perfection must be achieved. But you have not achieved it. Only thing you can do is to have an attitude towards yourself. Like I have seen [when] I am working on people, [I say] “How are you feeling?” “I am tired!” Imagine! It’s I who am working it out! “I am tired!” What is this? A very common expression!

One should never say what I am, that’s the best way. Have you heard me saying that? That now I am not going to do anymore?

Warren: The best you can say to Mother when she says, “How are you?” is “The Kundalini is working it out!” or, “It’s working,” or something like that.

Shri Mataji: “Mother you better take rest and I had better look after myself!” This is the way you should say. “Mother I will look after myself!” I will say, “All right.” One should be ashamed that you are not perfect before me, normally. But even not that, but to say that, “I am very imperfect and you better cure me!” What is this?

And the third stage is not only that but to say that, “I am absolutely imperfect! I am horrible! I am no good! I am rejected by you! You don’t love me!” And the fourth category is the person who tries to play tricks with me.

Warren: Yes, and sometimes that category will use both of the other two [examples] as tricks.

Shri Mataji: What is it made of?

Warren: It is very strange Mother. Rose hip. Rose hip, a dried berry which is a dried berry. I don’t know why by they are giving you that.

Yogini: I brought it for you, first of all, to know whether you like it or not. It’s a special kind of rose plant.

Shri Mataji: This one is?

Yogini: Yes

Shri Mataji: No, because I didn’t know what it was so I asked. I think it is very good for kidney. It will good for kidney, will be good for heart, and there’s vitamin C, so for cold. But you see, vitamin C, if you take too much, then also water goes too much and you become dry. Too much water is expelled. And then you have to always excite the kidney.

Warren: It’s like a pancreas which grows up with too much sugar.

Shri Mataji: So you just take little bit, not much. It’s good for people who have kidney trouble. But for dry people it’s not good. It’s for people like me who have more water in the body. I need water. Thank you.

Warren: You need nothing Mother.

Shri Mataji: Oh I need you know, for my chakras. All these things are part and parcel.

Warren: But you don’t need that, you are that.

Shri Mataji: I don’t know where I am. If I am the chakras I need it, if I am not the chakras I don’t need it! It depends where I am.

(end of recording)