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Public Program, “Confusion: the Subtle Slavery”. Birmingham (UK), 9 July 1982.
One has to realize that modern times are the times of confusion. You don’t know what you want. You don’t know what you want to ask. You don’t know whatever you are doing is right or wrong. Confusion is necessary. Without confusion, we are not desperate. Without desperation we do not seek. But confusion is only visible when a person reaches a certain area of awareness, or we can say, a degree of awareness. Say, at a stage when Moses came on this earth, when the desperation was different, that they wanted to get out of slavery, it was a different style of understanding they had, how to organize a society on a particular pattern so you achieve the maximum amount of efficiency, out of that society. And it was an emergency… it was a very touch and go position for the Jews at that time.
It has happened in many countries, in many generations, that they reached a state where they felt extremely desperate. The slavery of man was very apparent at that time. But before that, people didn’t feel bad about the slavery. They had accepted it. They had taken it for granted. And then a time came when they felt, “this is slavery, and we are not going to have any more of it.” And a leader came, that leader worked it out for them.
Today in these modern times, we have a very subtle type of slavery, which is every day eating us… which is so self-destroying that we are not even aware of it, and we get destroyed. This destruction is working, in so many ways, that, if we do not really awaken ourselves to the truth, there is a possibility that nothing will be left out of this creation.
There are people who give big lectures. I have met many big people from United Nations and from all these big, big agencies. They talk about the coming destruction, the future shock and this going to happen, they book, big books. They discuss. They sit on the street, they’ll discuss. They are in a pub, they are discussing. They are in a party, they are discussing. But they do not realize what it means. This destruction is a kind of a destruction that has never taken before. Because this destruction is going to come from within and not from without.
We have reached a certain depth in our awareness, and if we do not touch the source of our sustenance, this destruction is going to work out. Now for many people it is, “Oh forget it, forget it, we’ll see about it.” Some people are of this opinion, “All right, forget it, what destruction, all right doesn’t matter, we’ll see tomorrow.” And some of them I’ve seen are sitting down, waiting, “Oh God, thank God there’s destruction, so this all is finished. Ha! We don’t have to bother our heads. Thank God there is destruction promised.”
Whatever attitude one may take, one has to realize, that these are very serious things. The creation has reached its maximum growth now. The growth is expressed as human beings. These human beings are the actors on the stage. Whole nature is working out, this new happening. Now only one thing has to happen to you is, that you have to get connected with the Divine. You have to get connected with the whole. You have to know your own meaning, and you have to know your purpose. If this can happen to you, then, you are in the other world.
You are made for this. You are made a human being with a purpose. We must think, all the scientists must ask once at least this question: “Why? Why are we made human beings? From animal stage, why have we come to this stage, what is the reason?’’ This question is working in the unconscious of every seeker today, that’s how we have so many seekers all over the world. And these seekers are just trying to find out why are we here. Some of them find an answer sometimes in some material well-being. Say our strikes nowadays…railways. Well it’s very narrow view of the whole thing, very narrow view. You want to have more pay, all right, have it. Then what? Those who talk of Communism… I’ve been to Moscow, I am, again, going back. I mean if you ask them they say, “Oh we haven’t got joy as yet.” I am not against Communism or against Democracy, both things are just jokes to Me. You are neither communistic nor democratic. Only after Realization you can become both simultaneously, because you have no powers to be capitalistic or democratic, you have no power to vote. You don’t know anything about yourself, what are you voting for? You can’t see. Unless and until there is light, unless and until we can see, how are we going to vote for?
For example we vote a person, for what? “Oh! He’s a very nice man,” all right. What is nice about him? How do you know he is a nice man? How do you know he will not be a bad man? Can you say that today the one who looks like a nice, very nice person, will not emit scorpions, or snakes all around him? A person who apparently looks a beautiful personality may turn out to be a horrid person. There is no absolute way of judging anyone. So how are we to vote any?
If you think that you know how to judge, then I think you have to still learn. Because till you make lots of mistakes, you will not admit that “I don’t know.” That’s the point. Once you reach that stage of saying, “I don’t know. I say this is a nice man but I can’t say. I’m not sure about this person,” that’s the point where you reach, when you are unsure about it, that you want to know surely, if something is really truthful and honest.
Our sense of honesty and everything is so superficial, is so superficial. For us, honesty means if you give me five pounds, I’ll return five pounds to you, is done, finished, is honest. Everything is so superficial, that’s why, we can never be satisfied, even if you get ten percent more pay or twenty percent more pay. You are not going to be happy, take it from Me. Material things do not give us happiness. Never. But, I do not say that we do not need material things. We need material things. But matter is something like a cup which has the nectar in it. If you are thirsty, you cannot take it from an empty cup, anything. It may be a cup of gold, what does it matter, difference to you? You must have something to quench your thirst, and that thirst, unless and until it is quenched, you are not going to be happy. And what is that thirst? Is this: that still you have not known yourself. It’s a very unconscious thirst. It comes – you don’t know what you are seeking, you don’t know why you are unhappy, you don’t know what you want. That is the unconscious which is working it out. But the time has come that you should know, what you are, and what is your glory, what is your greatness, what are your powers. They are all built within yourself. All these days when you grew up, in your evolutionary process, all these things were built within you as shown here. They are all there. Actually I am just a catalyst, you can say. Just a candle which is enlightened. And this candle, when touches another candle which is ready, that gets enlightened. I mean you may give it a big scientific name, this, that, a charged personality, this, that, I don’t understand. It’s very simple for Me. You are all ready for it, I just touch you and you get enlightened and you get the light and when you touch someone, that person also gets enlightened.
Now you may say, “Mother, how can that be so simple?” I mean so many people say that “Mother, You are too simple, how can that be?” I just don’t understand, what should I have, two horns or something to make it complicated? Everything that is living is the simplest thing. That’s the sign of living. Have you seen the flower? How simple it is, to grow a flower. It just works. You just get some seeds, sow them, and you get the plants. How simple it is! Do we ever think, how it works out? Looks very complicated, if you start thinking about it, you will go mad if you start analyzing it. But it’s so simple.
In the same way, this happening is also a very-very simple thing. It is called Sahaja. Sahaja has two meanings. Sahaja means simple, also it means the thing that is born with you. Sahaja is a simple thing because it is born with… I mean your nose, is born with you, all right, it’s a simple thing. You don’t have to do anything, press it or anyway do anything to it, to breathe. It’s there. In the same way, this built-in process is within you. It’s just there. To Me, it is absolutely simple, and to you also it will be simple, as soon as you get it.
So this argument about it being so simple, I just can’t understand, Myself. Why should there be an argument? Supposing you can eat this way (Shri Mataji puts hand to mouth), why should you ask that “how can it be so simple to eat this way?” It’s so simple, because it is so vital, it is so important. All vital things are simple and easily available, like your own breathing. For that if you have to do something special, then this breathing is not possible. How many people are going to survive?
Now this simple thing, this simple method, is the method of the all-pervading Divine Power, the Holy Ghost. This all-pervading Divine Power is the Shakti [–power -ed], the Primordial Power that works it out. Do we realize how this Shakti works otherwise? Are we ever watching a flower becoming a fruit? Who does that? Not one flower, but you must have seen millions and millions, and billions and billions of these flowers, are turning into fruits, and who does that? We never think. We take it for granted.
All living things are done by this Divine Power. Human beings cannot do anything that is living. What they can do is everything that is dead or deadening. Like strikes, is a deadening thing. What we can do is to make something – a table, a chair, if the tree is dead. You are doing nothing but dead work, and this deadening thing, dominates us because we form habits. We form habits. With these habits, this matter sits on our head, and the Spirit, which is the vibrant thing, which is the source, which is the controlling thing, becomes dormant. This dormant force, if somehow, becomes enlightened, and our attention becomes enlightened, our attention becomes enlightened, we become a different person, we become a yogi. We become a person who is united with God. For that you don’t have to wear funny dresses. It makes no difference what sort of dress you wear. It makes no difference how you comb your hair, or what sort of food you eat. Its something so within – it has nothing to do with these outward things.
All our ideas about even charities, and about being kind to others and all these things are very superficial. When you become that, when you become compassion, when you become love, then you don’t have to tell yourself at all, you don’t have to argue with it, you just become. It just flows, the compassion flows, it acts. You don’t have to argue it out, you don’t have to tell yourself, “I should be compassionate, I should be kind.”, you just become.
I went to Italy and there were three-four people who got interested in Sahaja Yogis, but they said, “We don’t want to join Sahaja Yoga.” I said, “Why?” “Because these people don’t smoke.” I said, “I never told them not to smoke, never. Ask them, did I? I never said ‘don’t smoke.’ You just ask them, ‘Do you smoke, or you have given up smoking, or you… your Mother has forced you not to smoke.’” They said, “Nothing of the kind. We used to smoke packets of cigarettes, we used to drink, we were drug addicts. But something happened to us, we just gave up, we don’t know how. So simple. Mother never told us, we just became like that.”
What is there to tell? I mean, once you have found it, once you have seen the light, you are not bothered. Supposing you see a rope here, you might be frightened, you might think it’s a snake, because there’s no light, you can’t see. You might be running helter-skelter, the whole house might be upside down… but once a light is there you say, “Oh! It’s a rope.” All right. So all the fears drop out because you have seen it. All the pressures drop out. All the hang-ups, they drop out. Whatever is abnormal, drops out, and you become an absolutely a normal person, absolutely a normal person. That’s what it is that you have to become. But it is much, much more than that. This is not only that you get your physical fitness, many people have been cured, they must have told you that cancer is cured. Yes true, cancer is cured. Many diseases are cured, mental cases are cured, if you have been to horrible gurus, you get cured. All these things happen, but that’s not the end of it, this is just the redeeming part of it. The redeeming part is that you are redeemed of all these physical, mental, emotional problems. But the another part of it, is that, you yourself get the power. You become the prophets. “The men of God will become prophets.” That’s what your great poet William Blake had said. “The men of God will become prophets and they will have power to make others prophet.” This is the sign. He has given you the sign. You become prophets – that means you get the power to do all this, yourself. Every individual can do it. Even small children can do it. Even a little Olympia can do it. When you become the prophet, you also know everything about it: what you are doing, how you have to do it, how to raise the Kundalini, how to cross all the different centers which are sick, how to keep it there. You become absolutely the master. Now the prophets were, we can say, like William Blake was a prophet, all right, he was a seer. He saw this future; he’s mentioned everything that was going to happen to Sahaja Yoga, no doubt. I don’t know how many are aware of it. Most of them thought he was a lunatic. They couldn’t believe him, when he talked of all these things that Jerusalem is going to be established in England’s pastured land, nobody could believe they said, “Must be mad.” But, the time has come. Jerusalem is to be established. There’s a special thing about England, and he saw that hundred years back, clearly- the whole picture. But nobody understood him. He was a prophet, nobody understood him, what he said. Those who understood also had an academic sort of an interest in him, and some did feel that there may be some sort of a truth in what he has said, and described.
So you are more than a prophet in a way, that you are not interested in seeing the future, but you come in the present. What they described, the future for them, which they did not enjoy, is your present, and that you become the master yourself. All these great prophets had a big, big problem. I had a discussion with an ambassador recently, who is a very learned man from India, and he was telling Me that the biggest problem was, that with rationality, with explanations, how far can we go. Supposing you say there is all-pervading Power, they said, “How, how, how are we to believe? It’s all cock and bull story. Prove it to us.” By argument of course you cannot prove it, but for experiencing also you cannot prove it. So they used to give up, like Adi Shankaracharya, at a point he reached, he wrote about “Vivekachudamani”, and all these deities and then he gave up, and he started describing the Mother. He said, “I give up. That’s all.” And they said that he went soft in his head, because he couldn’t go ahead with his philosophies and started praising the Mother. Said, “What’s wrong?”
The same thing happens with Bible, with Koran, with everything, that people think: either you follow them with faith, with blind faith, do not question anything, just accept whatever they are saying, become fanatics, kill each other, die, then it’s all right. Or else, you just give up. You become communists, no God. If you have to have your brains alive then you better give up all these religions, you should say, “all nonsense.” Christianity is hopeless because of these churches, then Islam is useless because of fanaticism, that is useless because of this and that is, Hinduism is another nonsense. Because at this level, it looks like that. At this point, it appears like that. It has no meaning, it’s nonsensical. This blind faith, people can’t accept. The scientists say, “What is this blind faith? We went to moon; it’s all just the same. What’s there? We went to moon, we never saw God. What are you talking about God? How are we to believe there is God?”
But, we have to now prove the existence of God. We have to prove the existence of this all-pervading Power. We have to prove the existence of that Spirit within you. It is to be proved. It is to be actualized. So arguments will stop. With arguments, one cannot achieve it. With blind faith, one cannot achieve it. Rationality cannot take it there, or this emotional adherence will not take you there. Its actualization… is the happening, that really makes you that.
The reality that is actually expressing within your central nervous system, that is the one is going to convince. But it is not for conviction, for example, if you are not convinced, the Divine is not interested. Like these people were saying, “Mother, by putting up posters that these people know about You, that You are there.” I said, “That’s all, that’s all. You have told them, you have passed the message. Now if they come, well and good.” That’s our job, is to inform. If they come, if they get Realization, well and good. If they establish themselves, even better. We’ll work hard for that, but we cannot force it. We cannot force it. We cannot have any artificial ways of impressing you. Like we cannot carry a circus about it. You have to have a sensitivity of your own to understand the importance, and your own pure intelligence must tell you that this is the thing. Otherwise we cannot fall at your feet and say, “Oh! Please…” We cannot implore. Neither can we cross your freedom that is given to you. It’s in your own freedom, and in its own glory, that you have to ascend, because you are epitome, you are the epitome of this creation. Nobody can force you to do it. If you want to go to hell, all right, take two running jumps and you can go down. If you want to go to Heaven, that’s also possible.
So the time we are here, we do not realize how precarious they are, how vital, and the most important times for which, we have been waiting. The most important moment in the life of creation, is today, when people are seeking, and Sahaja Yoga is manifesting on a mass scale. This is such a fortunate thing, that you are seekers of ages, gathered here, and that, Sahaja Yoga has come to you as a blessing of the Divine, because Divine Itself is anxious to manifesting. But people who come to Me, are of different levels. Some are mediocres, some are absolutely base.
Those who are absolutely base will say, “Mother, what about my job? I have applied for it, now maybe something little better.” Or some people can say, “Mother I am not sick…well, this, that.” All right, that also can be done.
But, those who are of a very high quality, whatever may be their problems, whatever they have done so called sins, is all forgiven completely, believe Me. Not to feel guilty at all. In Sahaja Yoga, the first mantra one has to say, “Mother I am not guilty,” three times, at least. So one has to understand that you are ready for it, you are glorified for it, and you have to get it. You don’t have to say, “What have I done, I have had so many mistakes on my account.” Nothing of the kind. I am here like a banker, I have to cash your cheques and you will get it, no doubt. You don’t know how much money you have in the bank, do you? I know it, so you don’t judge yourself. You leave it to Me to judge. It’s My judgment. And then when it happens, if you have pure intelligence you will understand this is what it is, and you have to settle down with it. Of course you can’t pay for it, I mean its all absurd ideas: “We can pay for it. How long we have to sit? There should be an organization.” We have no organization, you know it very well. We cannot organize God, we cannot organize these things. We don’t even have membership, nothing of the kind. Of course we keep your list, because if we have any programs, we inform you, that’s a different thing.
Moreover, in Sahaja Yoga, everybody is not exposed to the complete thing, is not exposed. First, they are given Realization, then they are weighed, how far they are. Then gradually when they grow up, they receive higher truths. Because sometimes they can be shocked, it’s not easy to bear the truth, sometimes it’s very difficult. Like, I told them once, that, there is no difference between what Christ has taught and what Krishna has said. On the contrary, Krishna said that you cannot be destroyed, the Spirit cannot be destroyed, by anything, and that was proved by Christ. And all the Hindus were about to kill Me, they couldn’t bear it.
But if I say something about Krishna, all the Christians will be there to criticize Me, so, it’s a big problem. You see if you talk to them about Krishna, the Christians don’t like it; if you talk about Christ, the Hindus don’t like it; if you talk about Sikhism, the Islam… the Muslims do not like it; and if you talk about Mohammed Saab, the Sikhs don’t like it. I am not here to please anyone. I am here to tell you the truth about them, that they are all one, and like fools and stupid people, you are fighting each other. There is no difference between them, they are all one, absolutely one. Such a concord, and such a understanding exists between them that you cannot separate them, they are so one with each other, as the moonlight is with moon, or sunlight is with sun. It’s only our ignorance makes that kind of allegation against them, and this you will realize in Sahaja Yoga itself. It will be proved by the ascendance of your awareness. Through your Kundalini, it will be proved that whatever I am saying will be proved scientifically, because the Kundalini when She rises, and it stops, you have to get over your mythical ideas, otherwise it won’t rise. You, yourself will learn gradually that what I am saying is the truth. Whatever I am saying about Mohammed Saab is the truth, and you will learn it. We have had enough of fights, we have had enough of nonsense… see now what’s happening is this… Israelis are killing the P.L.O.s and all this. Do you think by killing them, they are going to achieve God?
These false ideas, all have to go. We have to become universal beings. Become. You become that. Whether somebody is a Muslim or a Hindu or a Christian or anything. When you become universal being, you can feel the person where he is, on your fingers. Christ has said, “Your hands will speak, your hands will speak.” We don’t have to challenge any scriptures… we have to see the inner light, in all what is described, which is making us separated is actually the uniting factor. The diversity has such a beautiful unity within us. But that only can be seen by the raising of the Kundalini, there’s no way out. Because when the Kundalini rises, the integration takes place, and you start seeing it as an actual experience.
I hope, you have understood what I have said. But arguments are not going to give you Realization – it has to happen. It doesn’t matter, you may be the crown prince, or you may be the king, or you may be anything, makes no difference. It’s your individual happening that has to take place. This is your individual Mother within you. This is the Ruh, I am talking about. Just by ritualism you cannot achieve God, you have to be connected with God. For all the people of the world, who understand and who think it is important, to know that there must be a truth, which we can actualize. It has been promised in all the religions and scriptures, and it has to happen.
May God bless you all.
I would like to have some questions from you, if possible. I’ll try to answer them. And please ask Me some questions, would be a good idea. Again, I say I am sorry for coming late but, you understand the way you had jammed the traffic. Yes, please?
Question: You compare Your yoga with Hatha Yoga and Raja Yoga?
Shri Mataji: Oh! I’ll tell you about that. It’s a very good question. It’s about Hatha Yoga and Raja Yoga. Now, the modern Hatha Yoga is something, I just don’t understand. But Patanjali Shastra, the one who has written “Ha Tha”, that is “Ha” and “Tha” is nothing, but you have these two nadis which these must have described to you. And, there are ashtangas, means there are eight aspects of Hatha Yoga, according to Patanjali who has written it. The most important and the primordial and the first one, is, Ishwara Pranidhana, means the establishment of God within you. Now in these acrobatic things that we do, we have no idea of God, we never talk of it, forget, forget about God, only you have to thin down, that’s all. Because they all want to be actors and actresses you see. They don’t want to be yogis. It’s a different style of things. It was Ishwara Pranidhana, first you must get your Realization. Out of these eight, one is Yama Niyama. In the Niyama, there is only one for physical exercises, that too, depending on where the Kundalini is. We also use Hatha Yoga in a way. Supposing Kundalini is stopping at a point at a certain center due to physical problem, we do a little asanas which are necessary, or some exercise, to do it. But that’s a very different thing. Modern Hatha Yoga is like this: that supposing I have to come from London to Birmingham, all right? I don’t start My car, nothing, but I turn it to the left and the right, standing there, static, you see, and I think I have reached Birmingham. Only I have the map, I’ll go right, left, this thing. Or even worse than that I would give an analogy, it is like taking all the medicines together without knowing what disease you have got. It’s very indiscriminate. None of these teachers have realization – how will they understand the importance of Hatha Yoga I don’t understand. In India, a Guru is the person who is a realized soul. He could be a Muslim, he could be Hindu, he could be anyone, but he has to be a realized soul to begin with. Brahmin is a realized soul. Now these days, these days the Brahmins can be kept as cooks. So the whole concept is so superficial, today’s Hatha Yoga.
Then Raja Yoga, is… Now, so you understand Hatha Yoga is a thing. The beginning of Hatha Yoga starts with Sahaja Yoga, where it is established, but Hatha Yoga is a subsidiary thing. Wherever we need, we can use it. Wherever we need, the part of it, we use it.
The second part is the Raja Yoga. Raja Yoga is another misconception people have got. That when the Kundalini rises you see, you must see this is a tremendous happening that takes place is the Kundalini rising from that, upwards. Its not the work of gravity, its moving upwards.
So to happen this, there must be some happenings taking place. For example, when it rises, suddenly, you see, when it crosses the second center, it goes into a kind of a kind of an augmentation there, so the Kundalini doesn’t fall off. That is called as bandhas. These bandhas, you see the augmentation we can say, the closing of it. Then it goes higher, it starts closing these. It comes to the Vishuddhi Chakra – there the all energy has to be brought into play. So there’s a [khechari?] happens, that the tongue little bit put here. But you won’t feel anything, it’s so fast. It’s so quick you won’t feel it. I mean I cannot give any other analogy like that, that even if you say, “Concorde,” I mean you do feel something about it, but supposing if you have a plane that you just board in (Shri Mataji snaps Her fingers) and you are there. Its a split of a second the Kundalini (Shri Mataji snaps Her fingers again) can just shoot off. So you don’t feel any of these things, like, the whole earth is so big, but you don’t see that it’s round. The circumference, in relation to thing that you see, is so small, that you don’t see its round. In the same way, the Sahaja Yoga is such a quick method of Kundalini rising, I mean there’s no other method. But today’s Sahaja Yoga I should say, so fast that you don’t feel anything, but happens. Your eyes also get dilated. But I have seen these mad people called Raja Yogis – they even put atropine in their eyes to dilate their pupils, because is said your eyes must be dilated. They cut out their tongues, push it back. You see there was one in America used to cut out the tongue of the people, used to wag their tongues, even there are now today people affected by this great guru whose tongues are still wagging like this and they used to put back their tongues. Do you mean to say by doing all these tricks you are going to raise the Kundalini? Some hold their thing, there’s nothing to be done, it is spontaneous. It is effortless. It is in the loving care of God. Why do you want to break your necks for nothing at all? What is the need? I first used to think, like children, you see, when they want to impress their Mother for something, they do these tantrums you see, just to attract the attention of the Mother. But now I think they are very serious about it. It’s most surprising. You’re going to that extent you see, it spoils your chakras. It spoils your position… in Sahaja Yoga, as a good Sahaja Yogi and a bad Sahaja Yogi. A Sahaja Yogi who gets it quick, stationed himself there, and mastered it, is a person who goes very fast, and a person who has ruined his chakras requires attention, or has to take a lot of trouble to improve them, to care for. So all these ideas can be only clarified when you get your Realization. All right?
The person who had posed the question: Yes, thank you.
Shri Mataji: May God bless you.
Question: Can Bhagvad Gita or the eight ashtangas of Patanjali help?
Shri Mataji: What is it? Bhagvad Gita and?
Shri Mataji: Eight? No, because unless and until you are realized, I am saying, supposing now, it is like this: before starting your car, if you move it right and left, and then start the car, will it help to come to Birmingham? It is wasteful. First of all, and it might have already broken your wheels. Oh, but nothing to worry. I mean I must say, nothing to worry about it, all right? May God bless you. May God bless you.
See, I don’t blame anyone, or don’t feel bad. Because after all you are seekers, you know, you are seekers. How are you to know? You are all seekers. How are you to know, these people write so many books, easy to write any book, isn’t it, these days, what is there? If you have money you can write anything. You can publish anything, whatever you want to write. What does it take, to write? Only I am the person who has not written anything so far. There are people writing about Me or about Sahaja Yoga, is different problem, I have not written anything so far. Christ has not written anything. Shri Krishna never wrote anything. Rama never wrote anything. But I’ll have to write, I think. I wrote something, and people said, “It goes over our head, Mother, because as soon as we read it we become thoughtless” Now what to do.
All right. What’s the next question please? It’s a very good question. What’s the next question? Five minutes more.
Question: Could we ask a question to God when we get connected with Him?
Shri Mataji: Could we?
A Sahaja yogi: Can you ask a question of God when you get connected.
Question: Could you ask questions to God when you are connected with Him?
Shri Mataji: Yes. Of course! Of course! Now I say, because you are connected. So you put your hands towards God, and say, “Is there God?” If you ask such a question, tremendous vibrations will flow. You, not only that, but you want to ask, say, about your own father how is he? Supposing he is not here. You will get a burning somewhere here. These are his centers. Immediately you will know which center is catching and if you know the decoding, immediately you will know what’s the problem he has got. You will know about everyone like that, not only about God, about yourself, and about others. That is what it is – the becoming of the Collective Consciousness… that, you become a universal being.
Question: And will we be able to see the God as I am able to see You.
Shri Mataji: It’s not seeing The God, it’s not the point today. Because seeing is in any case is not being. You see My difference? Now you are… what’s your name please?
Answer from the person asking the question: Bippin.
Shri Mataji: Bippin. Now you are Mr. Bippin. Can you see yourself, Mr. Bippin? Now when you have become Mr. Bippin, you can’t see. When you become part and parcel of God you can’t see anything. But you can act. Seeing is being separated.
Question: So you mean to say we become one with the God.
Shri Mataji: Yes, that’s the point. You become one with the God, with the Primordial Being. You become, you become His power, or you become His instrument. You see once you don’t go into dogmas, because you see on that there might be a quarrel already existing whether you become His instrument or He becomes your instrument, all that you see, so I don’t want to fall into that trap, but what I would say that, you start feeling the power. Let’s put it down, you become the Spirit. That’s why you know, Buddha never talked of God. He said, “Better not talk of God”, because then, other questions will start. Better tell them you become your Spirit – finished. First let them become Spirit, then we’ll talk further.
Any other question please?
Question: And do you see spirits, you see spirits?
Shri Mataji: What is it? Spirits? Now why do you want to see? They exist, no doubt, but we have nothing to do with them. They are past, they are finished, they are gone, what are we to bother about them? Of course I mean they are there, what to do. They are very troublesome people. We have had lots of problems from them. All these gurus are using them, it’s all done. It’s there.
Question: Are there what do you call…
Shri Mataji: Good spirits? No! No! We should have nothing to do with them because now, you are a person, who lives in the present. Good or bad, we have nothing to do with them. How do you know who’s good, who’s bad? Once you allow a good man to come in, a bad man may walk in, how will you know. So better have none of them coming to you. Better be alone about those. Gradually you’ll know about all of them, and you’ll be amazed how you know, to keep away from these people.
Question: What is Kundalini?
Shri Mataji: [directed at Sahaja Yogis] They didn’t tell you? What with? You didn’t tell?
A Sahaja yogi responds: We mentioned it, we explained it, but You tell (…).
Shri Mataji: What say?
Question: Iis it some sort of energy or…
Shri Mataji: Yes it is, it is energy. It is the energy of our desire, which is not yet manifested. And which is that desire, which is not yet manifested within us? It is the desire to become the Divine. Once this energy is manifested – that’s why it is called as residual – then this desire is manifested.
Question: Shri Mataji, You have to create and imagining this energy and be… [inaudible]
A Sahaja Yogi: You have to create and imagine this energy?
Shri Mataji: No, No, No, N.! It exists, its there. Nothing is imaginary, nothing is to be done by you. It’s all there just like a primule in a seed, it exists there. You don’t have to, there’s nothing you know, imaginary things, nothing. It’s really there, you can see the pulsation. You can see it pulsating. You can see it rising. You can feel the pulsation on top of your head. You can see the breaking of this, you can see the cool breeze coming out of your head, the real baptism taking place. Its all there. Its all there. Its no imagination needed at all. Its not thinking, by thinking, you don’t do it. If you think say about a seed, that I imagine now this seed will sprout, will it sprout? No, it has to sprout. In the same way, it has to happen. It’s a living process.
Question: When we realize we have the desire for Self-realization, [UNCLEAR], if we have acquired faith and trust, will it gradually come to us?
Shri Mataji: What?
Question: If we have the desire, and we don’t recognize it, will it gradually come to us, anyway?
Shri Mataji: Yah, good. But that desire is only manifested by Kundalini awakening. That desire is there, of course, in the unconscious it is there… gradually, it becomes a very conscious desire… then you seek it, you run for it, but it is only manifested when the Kundalini rises and breaks your fontanel bone area – that’s it.
Question: But, how does one actually stimulates…
Shri Mataji: What stimulates?
A Sahaja Yogi: How does one stimulate this energy?
Shri Mataji: It… it just gets stimulated. It is there, I think something special about Me. And then, you become the same special being. You can do it, too. Its question as I told you – a light enlightens another light, all right? In the same way.
A Sahaja Yogi: You spoke of… he says, You spoke of Hatha Yoga as being physical yoga, Raja Yoga as being mental yoga. Could You talk about the process of this yoga?
Shri Mataji: Ah. No, no, I am not saying that is physical, we are using it for a physical purpose. It is not physical, nor it is mental, this Raja Yoga is, all these things are the part and parcel in this Sahaja Yoga which is a spontaneous happening. In this, this Kundalini which is the residual force within us, the desire force within us, unwinds itself, and, few threads of this start rising as pulsation, you can see it also, the rising. She moves up, gradually enlightening these centers, and opens up the last center, the seventh center here, by which, the Spirit, which is actually seated in your heart, gets enlightened, because the seat of the Spirit is on top of your head. All right?
All right. So now I think we should have it. What do you say? Better have it. All right. Just put your hands like this. (the video stops here) is very simple because hands have to speak.
So these fingers, the tips of fingers, are sensitive sensory organs of the sympathetic nervous system. If you put your hands like this, towards Me, just like this and your feet on the ground, touching the ground fully, put both the feet separate not close together, not too far away and sit most comfortably. Now close your eyes.
Now put your right hand on your heart, right hand on your heart and ask the question: Mother am I the Spirit? Close your eyes. Close your eyes. You must keep your eyes shut. Just ask the question: Mother am I the Spirit? Some of you might start feeling a cool breeze coming into your hand, with this question alone, ask it sincerely. That means your attention is now on your physical, mental, emotional being, but suddenly the Spirit comes into play.
First of all you have to know that you are not guilty and please don’t have guilt in your mind at all. On the contrary you should say, “Mother I am not guilty. Mother I am not guilty. Mother I am not guilty.” In no way you are guilty of anything. They might have told you, you have committed sins, this – forget it, forget all that. Is a very common practice to degrade human beings. Those who tell must be guilty themselves. Don’t believe anyone. Now put your right hand across the neck on the left hand side and say that “Mother I am not guilty.”
Now put the same hand on the forehead across and say, “Mother I forgive everyone.” Say it again and again, just say, “I forgive everyone.” It’s a big pressure of not forgiving.
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi