All That is Vital is Extremely Simple

Mytholmroyd Community & Leisure Centre, Mytholmroyd (England)

1982-07-30 All That is Vital is Extremely Simple, Mytholmroyd, England (longer), 142' Chapters: Introduction by Yogi, Talk, Self-Realization
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1982-07-30 All That is Vital is Extremely Simple, Mytholmroyd, England, 80' Chapters: Talk, Q&A, Self-RealizationDownload subtitles: EN,ZH-HANS (2)View subtitles:
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1982-07-30 All That is Vital is Extremely Simple, Mytholmroyd NITL-RAW, 142'
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All That is Vital is Extremely Simple, Public Programme, Mytholmroyd Community & Leisure Centre, Caldene Ave, Mytholmroyd, HX7 5AF, Yorkshire (UK), 30 July 1982.

I think some of the Sahaja Yogis were rather amazed that I accepted Rita’s invitation to come to this place! Rita has been very kind to call me here.

Every place has its own attractions, as far as the Divine is concerned.

And I knew there must be some very deep seekers in this place who could be really benefited if I could visit this place. And I was overjoyed to arrive here.

Now the question about Sahaja Yoga is very simple to understand. All that is vital is extremely simple. For example the way we breathe is so simple. We don’t read any book, we don’t do any exercise for that. We don’t have to go and learn from anyone, we just do it. In the same way, if our seeking has some meaning and if we have to find out something it must be the most vital thing offered. It’s not just an alternative life. Many people have a feeling that the seekers are nothing but they are finding alternative theories, and to alternate, with the present norms and conditions – it’s not so.

The time, that is today, the modern times, are special times described in the ancient scriptures in India and also in The Bible and Koran. In all the scriptures they are described. In the Koran they are described as the resurrection time. Christ has many a time talked about it that: you have to know My Father forever. That your hands will speak. Lots of descriptions he has given of this state which you will achieve at a time. As in life you have seen [that] a tree has to grow. First it may have just one or two flowers but when time comes when the same tree which has only one or two flowers – about, say, two years back [or] three years back – suddenly gets into a blossom time and has lots of flowers. Like that, today is the time of blossom time of all the seekers.

So many seekers have taken birth today on this Earth. Especially England it’s described by William Blake* that these times are going to come when England is going to become Jerusalem. ‘Jerusalem’ means ‘where it will be pilgrimage.’ For people will think this is the Holy Land of God. That people will come to this Holy Land, to visit this place. So the people have to be holy, they have to. It’s not the trees that are going to become holy, it is not the land that is going to be holy but it’s the people. Their hearts are going to be holy.

Then how do they become holy? What happen to a person when he really becomes holy? We talk of saints. We talk of prophets. What is the difference between these revered people and ordinary people? There’s only one difference. The difference is this: that in their attention, in their central nervous system, there is the light of their Spirit. While for the other people, they live in ignorance without this light of the Spirit.

The Spirit exists in every one of us. It is always there, present, all the time. It’s Omnipresent. It’s all the time present within us. But the problem is that we are not aware of it, that it is not shining in our attention, in our awareness.

When Gavin told you about the new awareness it means that the awareness that we have, the human awareness, becomes enlightened – a new awareness – and in that awareness what happens is that our Spirit manifests.

Now one may say, Mother it must be a difficult thing. People have to do so many tapasya, they have to do so much penance and they have to go to Himalayas and do all kinds of things, stand on their heads for days together, and how is it that it is working so easily now?

Actually that kind of thing is not needed today because the time has come.

When the time has come it just work out fast, it works out en masse. Now I am with you here but in India, those people who have visited with me know that there are thousands of people for every programme I go [to] there. And all of them get realisation. All of them get realisation. Means they started feeling the All-pervading Power for the first time on their hands. “Your hands will speak.” First time the All-pervading Power about which Christ has described, every scripture has described, you start to feel it as cool breeze of the Holy Ghost.

Now this feeling, somebody can say, “Could be due to this, could be due to that,” because we are doubting Thomases sometimes and we start doubting it. But the thing is, you can see, in so many people, the rising of the power from the triangular bone which is called as ‘Sacrum’. Surprisingly ‘sacrum’ means ‘sacred’. That means that Greeks knew that it is a sacred bone, it’s a sacred bone. Nowadays this word has no meaning but it will come back when people realise what is sacred.

In this bone, the triangular bone, we have this power called Kundalini settled down. This residual power which creates us, which creates the whole being, is still not manifested, it is still sleeping. Because it is the power of our desire which is the ultimate desire to become one with the Spirit, to feel the All-pervading Power, to be the instrument of the God.

Until this power, or we can say this power of desire has manifested itself, we are not going to be happy people. We can try anything we like [but we will not].

Now, in the beginning you may say, that so many prophets came in: Christ came in, all of them came just to make us ready for this day when we can be born again. Christ has clearly said you have to be born again. Now who is bothered about it? There are people I have met who have certified themselves “born again,” but you can’t certify yourself as “born again”. “Born again” means a person who has felt this All-pervading Power. Who can make this All-pervading Power flow through his being and can manoeuvre it and understand it.

Now this All-pervading Power is the power that has all the powers that you see: all this electricity, everything is a part of that power. That’s the vitality of the whole Universe, that has created this Universe. This All-pervading Power that flows when you get your realisation, gives you tremendous powers. But the biggest power it gives you is to love. God is love, and His power is the power of love. He really loves us. He loves us so much that He is the one who wants to save us. It is He who is anxious to save His creation. He doesn’t want that His creation which He has created with such love with such attention, with such delicate help, out of which you are the epitome of His creation. The human beings are the highest, and [for them] to be destroyed – that He cannot bear. And it is His desire that is flowering today as Sahaja Yoga and that the people are getting Self-realisation in such a mass quantities.

But the main problem today is that there are so many in the market that people don’t know what to do. To begin with, we have churches, we have mosques, we have temples, we have all kinds of people selling God, or maybe talking about God, or saying that, “This is God.”

Now these religions came on this Earth, all the Prophets came on this Earth, to establish a balance within us, as I told you, to prepare us for the ultimate. But I have noticed that without enlightenment whatever is the belief, whether it is Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhism, all any isms or Communism or Capitalism or any sort of thing, it is fanatic belief.

The reason is without the light, you can not see.

For example, I come upon this table, I feel this table [when] there is no light [in the room]. To me this table is the main thing, the rest doesn’t exist. To another person comes here and sees a chair, to him this chair, nothing [else] exists. Now this myth that he believes into, he has to establish it. It’s a myth because he’s not yet enlightened and he cannot enlighten other people so it’s a myth. And he has to adhere to that myth with such glue-like tenacity that created a great barrier between him and the Truth. Because he has not known the Reality yet. Reality is very different from what we feel today as human beings.

For example, I will tell you that this Gavin (Brown) who has today spoke to, met me about six, seven years back or we should say more than that.

And first he got his realisation I told him, “This is All-pervading Power. ” He started feeling the Cool Breeze. He said, “Mother how are we to know that it has got telecommunication, it has every way of informing us?” I said, “Alright, what do you want to find out?” He said, “I want to find out about my father.” I said, “Alright, you put your hands and just ask ‘how is my father?’.” And he asked this question: immediately he started getting the burning on his hand, on here. Now, these are the centres of your father. These are the centres of your mother. When he started getting the burning here, he said, “Mother what is this?” I said it means you father is down with very bad bronchitis. His father was in Scotland. I said, “Why don’t you telephone to him and find out? It’s very easy to find out.” And when he telephoned, he found out, his mother told, that, “Your father is down with very bad bronchitis.” So that is how the information comes to us from this All-pervading Power.

Now before that, whatever we do, say we talk of capitalism, we talk of communism. I would say I am the greatest capitalist because I have all my powers within my control. I have all my powers within my control And I am the greatest communist because I cannot live without sharing. I have to share them because otherwise I cannot enjoy all those powers that I have.

I really cannot enjoy my own life unless and until I share it with all of you.

I have lots of joy within myself but unless and until I share my joy with you all, I am not going to enjoy it. So I am a regular communist. So all these things you have done, like communism, capitalism, communism, democracy are nothing but the myths of the Reality. Like, sometimes you say, “I am my nose, I am my ears, I am my eyes.” They are all one!

You do not see the integration. Why? Because you haven’t yet awakened yourself.

Once you are awakened you find “Oh! I am the whole body.” All this whole body has all these different parts which we consider, “This is good, that is good,” but none of them have proved to be really perfect. They are good, but they are not that good. So there must be some way where all these things integrate, and they integrate at a point where you become the Spirit because Spirit is the thing within you which is the Collective Being.

Now my husband, as you know, is at the UN system and you have an agency here called the ‘Maritime Organisation’. And he also feels that, whatever they are doing on a global level, on an international level lacks something, lacks something, in human beings. Because rationally they understand that the whole world is the same, that you are my brother and I am your sister this sort of things but in their hearts there is still something lurking because the heart and the head are not integrated. We believe into so many things but the heart and the brain, they are not integrated.

How do you find, that the person who is believing into something but is not doing that? Because they are not integrated. When the heart and brain both are absolutely integrated then you do what you believe into, and [if] you believe into something, then you do that. Both things go hand in hand, and that’s how these things that we feel look so funny with people. They talk so big! They say they, “We’ll do this for you,” and, “This is what we feel,” They make all kinds of drama. And ultimately you find they have no feels about it. But I do not blame them because they haven’t found their Spirit, which integrates you completely. And this is the time when you will get your complete integration in life.

Now coming to absolute mundane level of things: the other day, a gentleman of the radio came to interview me and he said, “Alright. You tell tell me that physical, emotional and also mental problems can be solved through Sahaja Yoga.” It’s true. We have cured cancer. There is one girl today, who came today from America. She has cured a blood cancer [case]. Of course it’s true. It can be cured. With this happening, with the awakening of Kundalini you can cure all these diseases. Heart troubles, all these can be cured. Then mentally also: many mad people have become sane people. Many addicts and all sorts of things have become alright. No doubt! It can be done. But you have to first of all get your realisation. Without that, without that first step, nothing can be achieved.

First step is that you get your light in. Now some people think that we should work very hard and we should cleanse ourselves, we should do this and we should do that and then we should take realisation. But why?

Unless and until you get out of yourself you cannot cleanse yourself, you cannot see yourself, and you cannot understand because you are so identified. For example, if you correct somebody, “You have got ego.” He’ll just punch you on your nose and say, “What do you mean by such a thing? What do you mean, ‘You have an ego’? You are the one who has the ego! What do you mean by saying such a thing to me that ‘You have an ego’?”

But when you get your realisation, when the Kundalini rises, here at this point, where you see this red mark, behind it, on the optic chiasma there’s a very subtle centre called Agnya chakra. On this centre resides our Lord Jesus Christ. And He sucks in your ego and superego. And when your attention is there, you can see your ego bloating up like a balloon. You see it and you say, “Oh God! This is me? Alright.” Nobody minds then if you tell them that, “Your Agnya chakra is catching.” Nobody minds it. Because they don’t like it [to be catching]. They want to have these vibrations flowing into you.

Then there can be a person with a superego. A person who is always frightened, who has fear and who always keeps quiet and goes into some sort of alcoholism or something, shuns the society. There could be person like that. Such a person, also, when he sees light within himself he becomes normal. Sahaja Yoga is there to normalise you completely, to make you a normal person.

But coming to the absolutely mundane thing like this gentleman asked me a question that, “What about our unemployment in England? What do you say? What is the solution you give for our unemployment if through Sahaja Yoga?” I said, “That’s a very great employment for you?” He said, “How?” I said, “Let’s see how you got employed. Let us be very practical about it.” You are over developed people. You have got your railways done, you have got your aeroplanes done, all kinds of machineries you have finished with. I mean, you have done everything and to add to it now you have computers! Sitting down here you can move everybody’s nose and eyes and everything, you don’t have to move out of here. You can even destroy the whole world sitting down here. You don’t have to do anything.

So you have reached that state where, now, you must rest. You have had too much development. So, as a holiday, now you are resting. And that’s how you are unemployed. But, in the subtle way, it is a Divine’s working. How? Science and all these powers have been given to us, exposed to us because we have to finish our every day-to-day work and save time. We have been wearing watches. I don’t think my grandmother wore any watch all her life. Nor could have been yours also. That time nobody bothered about time. Time was passing, nobody bothered about that. But now we are all the time, “Save the time, save the time, save the time.” But save for what? Save for the pub, or save for the ballroom dancing, or for the quarrelling, or for hitting others or talking ill of others? Save for yourself. Save for your meditation. Save for your ascent. And this saving itself, the time that you have saved, has brought in the birth of so many seekers on this Earth.

Now this is the time [that] you have got such a lot of spare time to you. Why this spare time has been awarded to you? Is to ascend. Now you have been employed for worldly things and worldly materialistic things and all that but now you are to be employed by God. You have to seek His employment. Once you get your realisation, now we have Sahaja Yogis, first I first said all Sahaja Yogis must seek some jobs. They should not be unemployed. But just to make it look normal I told that. But they are so employed now, they have no time, they are so busy. They are giving realisation to people, they are curing people, they are going round telling them about the message. They are so busy, they are doing God’s work.

Now you are no more employed with the government. You are not employed by any private companies, but you are employed by God. So, you are free, you are getting your food alright, you are getting your pensions alright. Now you work. I have seen people who are even eighty years old, ninety years old [that] are doing God’s work. From India, recently when I went to America, a gentleman who is about seventy-six years of age came down to get me from India, all the way. And he said, “Now I am doing God’s work, so I am not at all tired, I am not at all afraid.” He and his wife, both of them, came to Los Angeles to help me down there.

So now the new employment has to start and that is the employment of God.

You can meet the Sahaja Yogis and ask them. They are very busy people. They have no time.

Now my grandchildren who are here, they are also born-realised people, they are very enlightened people. And they are very busy. They have no time for anything. You see, since we have come here they have been busy going round and trying to see wider people. Now, we went to the airport one day, and this girl was tying up like this, very fast, she was doing like this, very fast, like a machine was on. So her mother asked, “What are you doing?” She said, “I’m trying to tie up the whole of airport. You see, they are running helter-skelter they are all getting mad!” And this action works out because the hands are flowing [with] that Divine Power. So this action has a meaning. And she was working it out like that and she was going on, and she said, “I have to tie up all these people, they are so speedy, so crazy, they are running fast for nothing at all.” And she was just trying to do that. They are all the time busy. [If] you talk to them, “No I’m just I’m busy!” They will do something here and there and they try to correct it.

So the new employment one has to take. But the first of all, the first criteria of this new employment is that you should become the Spirit. If you are not the Spirit, you cannot do it. So you become the Spirit. Then you must learn the methods of how to use this Divine Power, how should it be done.

That’s all! It’s so simple. It’s all made for you. It’s very easy. Nothing to work out. But one should not go on thinking about it. Because it is beyond thought. By thinking you have built up all these things, by planning you have done all this. But now you have to enter into the Realm of God, to be the citizen of God Empire where he gives you powers by which you work out the world. But the whole. And then you really feel your generosity and your giving powers which are so great, your forgiving powers, which are so satisfying. All the great powers will start feeling once you become that Spirit. And that is very important, to become the Spirit.

Now of course, you can say, there are many who talk like this. They have to! They have to talk like this, but there are ways of understanding how to make out a person who is real and who is unreal.

First of all, it is a living happening. It’s the happening in your evolutionary process. As you have become human being you have to become a higher being. You are still in transition. You do not know why you are here. You don’t know your meaning, that’s why you are frustrated, that’s why you are unhappy. So this has to happen to all of us.

Now for this, everybody can say, “Alright, I’ll give you an experience.”

The other day one girl told me that a gentleman came and told us, “I’ll give you an experience.” And what experience did he give? She said, “We became dumbfounded.” I said, “What is there [so special] to be dumbfounded?” Supposing you go to a pub and have a big drink you can be dumbfounded! What’s so valuable [in that]? What is an experience? Supposing you are pricked you might get the experience of pain or something. Experience is not the thing, it’s the awareness. What happens to your awareness is the point. Is your awareness is enlightened? Has your awareness got the new dimension by which you understand other people, the collectively consciousness? Did you become collective? Are you collectively conscious? Ask this simple question to yourself.

But it’s very easy to scan out these people because everything they do is for money or for women, or something very, very low level thing. I mean, everybody who is trying to do something is nothing but money or buildings or all these things which are not important.

In the realm of God, what is important is the joy, is the peace, is the love. And when we can achieve that Spirit then only we can talk about it. Before that, if I tell you a big story, what’s the use? It has to happen, it has to work out. It’s your own right to get it. You cannot sell it in the market because it’s a living process. For example, supposing there’s a seed which has to grow, sprout, and it’s a living process, can we pay money to the seed? “Now you please grow?” Or a flower which has to become the fruit, can you pay money to the flower? “Alright, come along now, become a fruit!” Will it become? It’s as simple as that.

All these living things are done by this All-pervading Power. We have become human beings also through the grace of this All-pervading Power. Even you have to become higher beings it will be through that.

‘Sahaja’ means ‘born with you’. Also it means it’s ‘simple’, ‘spontaneous’. Everything living is spontaneous and that’s why you cannot pay for it, you cannot sell it in the market. It has nothing to do with money.

God doesn’t understand money. He never saw money. He doesn’t know what it is you human beings have created, this money, this poverty, this richness. He has nothing to do with it. He has created a beautiful world, a beautiful place for all of you live and He has created you to enjoy it. But if you have made complications and hangs-up and you are so complicated it’s better to get out of it and become a simple personality. To become a simple personality also you have to get to that level which is the Spirit.

And that is what Sahaja yoga is today.

As Gavin has told you that you have to put hands towards me.

Now I must say, I must confess that that’s my job. I have to accept it. But it should not in any way hurt your ego. Because the other day somebody told me, “Why you Mother?” I said, “Please come along! I’ll be very happy.

If you can do it nothing like it! I’ll be very happy. Now see, I have a good family, a very good husband, my family, my children, my grandchildren and they are happy people. Actually yesterday he was not well also so much and he didn’t want me to come here but I said, “No I must go to this place. It’s definite I must go.” And I managed to come here. And he also realises how important it is to transform people. But it’s my job what can I do? You see, if it is my job are you going to crucify me for that? I have been really asked to do this job and I am doing it in my own humble way just to give you something. I have to just give you. I have nothing to take from you. I am standing at an end where I cannot take anything. I can just give you my love and you should just accept it. Is there any harm in accepting somebody’s love? Which you cannot pay for.

But once you get realisation, once you are enlightened, you can enlighten other people. Like one light which is enlightened can enlighten another person and when that person is enlightened, can enlighten another person.

It’s simple as that. I was born as an enlightened personality. And I was aware of it. And then my father told me, very frankly that, “Now you find out a method by which you can give a en-masse realisation. Because otherwise if you speak it will become another Bible, and people will fight; it will be another Judaism, and they will fight, another Islam, and they will fight. It’s better that you give them realisation. Because [if] somebody is born on the tenth storey and he talks of the tenth storey and people on the ground do not rise. First they are jealous or they are angry or they think the man is mad and they will do all kinds of things like crucifixion, giving poison, torturing the saints and all that.” He said, “Nothing doing! First of all you make them rise at least two storeys or three storeys. Let them feel that there is something beyond. Once they start feeling there’s something beyond that they have to achieve it in their awareness then only they will understand that there is God and there is Divinity.”

Blind faith is no use. In the same way, denying God is also no use. You must see and witness this happening and then, once you become the Self, you will understand God. Before becoming the Self you cannot understand God, that’s why even Buddha didn’t talk about God. He said, “You better not talk of God. Once you talk of God, again hypocrisy starts.” So he said, “Let’s talk of the Self-realisation only. Once they get their Self-realisation, then I’ll talk about God.” But you know, he didn’t live that long to tell people. Actually, in his life time, he couldn’t give realisation to many people.

Luckily I am in England. It’s all arranged, I think. I have to be here because this is going to be the Jerusalem. And I have been struggling with English people quite a lot! And I had six people with me for four years – you won’t believe – and I was struggling with them, with the six people. But they were managed and they are now the foundation of Sahaja Yoga in England.

English people are wise people. They are scholarly people. They don’t rush to conclusions. They are sensible people. But a kind of an inertia is settled because of the experiences of the past. Experiences of the religious people, experiences of the fake gurus, experiences of the other experiments that people have done and they are really now fed up and fagged out that, “We are not going to go in for anything more!”

But supposing you are seeking a diamond and ultimately find it.

Won’t you ask for it? Because you have been seeking that only. So why not get to it and do it?

No use identifying yourself with something: with some organisation, with some cult, with some sort of a misguided religion, or religious behaviours.

Best is to be your Self. And then, you will be surprised, your hands will speak. You yourself will know who is the real who is the unreal.

Now there is one drawback that people feel that, if you start jumping, you have become, you are, blessed by Holy Ghost! If you start talking something non-sensical, you have been blessed by Holy Ghost.

How can that be? We can always jump. It’s not difficult. Is it difficult to jump? Anybody can start jumping. Anybody can start saying something like that. Now, this misunderstanding has come, because

‘Saint’ Paul I think said something, which he should not have said because he was not realised soul. And he had no business to say that the Holy Ghost made them jump. Actually this is done by the [dead] spirits. People can mesmerise you and can make you jump. They can mesmerise you. You have seen so many cases where mass hypnosis has taken place. People are just hypnotised to become the slaves of these people, to give them money,

to give them Rolls Royces, to give them all kinds of useless things.

So we must understand that this happening is a living happening. You cannot pull out your Kundalini like that. You cannot pull out the primule, the germinating seedling from the seed. You cannot pull it out [and say], “Now come along now! You grow.” It has to grow by itself. In the same way, the happening of the Kundalini, in so many people you can see. If you come to my programme later on, you will be able to see. That you can see the pulsation of the Kundalini in the Sacrum, you can see the pulsation rising. You can feel it on the fontanel bone area. And once this opens out, you can feel the cool breeze coming out of your head. You can feel it, the cool breeze, coming out. And also then you start feeling the cool breeze in your hand.

Now this you cannot do! No one can do it. Something has happened to you. And then once you get it, if you start practicing it, you will be amazed what powers you have got. Because, supposing, even if I have powers, or if I have money and I don’t know how to spend it, I don’t know what the money is, what this paper means – what’s the use? In the same way, when you get this, you have to give it to others. You have to look after others. You have to impart this beauty to others. In doing that you do not get into any trouble, you do not suffer from anything. On the contrary you feel so elated. And the fulfilment of your being comes into you that there’s some meaning to our lives. Something that we are doing which is so substantial, so living. We are doing the work of God.

May God bless you all.

It’s such a big subject that, in this short time, I cannot explain every aspect of it. It’s a very, very wide thing. But now I can only say that there are about six [to] severn hundred lectures I have given only in England and I don’t know how many in India. Still they say, “Mother, always you say something new. I just don’t understand.” But whatever it is, knowledge by words is of no use. Knowledge should be your own which should come to you as light. For example, in a library, if you get a way of knowing every book, just by the subtle entering into it, or penetration into it, you [will] become the knowledge. So best thing is to become the knowledge instead of just knowing through me and understanding it through me, which you can do it. You are quite capable of doing it and it can happen to all of you.

I wish this evening especially it should happen.

They say it is a small village. And to me, small or big doesn’t matter. It’s how many are there [who are] genuine seekers, who are genuinely seeking God, who are seeking their Spirit? That’s the most important thing for me. Even there is one person like that I’ll go to that place. Whether it’s one house, or one village, or a big city, makes no difference to me.

May God Bless you.

And I would like to have some questions from you if you have any and they you try this process of Kundalini awakening which doesn’t give you any trouble. Doesn’t trouble you. If you have any sickness you get cured. If you have any mental problems, the hangs up, they fall off and afterwards you do feel the Cool Breeze coming out of you. But, after that, you have to practice it a little bit and establish yourself. That’s very important is the establishment.

Can I have any questions from you please if you have any questions.

Seeker: Can you give me any ideas which would help my own particular problem, that many years ago I wandered away from Western established religions towards the Buddhist ideas and now and Buddha as I understand, as you’ve just repeated, did not deal in problems whether there’s a God or not, he put it on one side as I understand it and so I am not in a position to take advantage of the ideas of going through God to a fuller life.

Shri Mataji: So, about the Buddhists you see, as in every religion it’s also in Buddhism. They have lost the essence of it. We think that if we give up Catholicism [and] we become Protestants, we’ll be saved – is wrong. If we think [that, if] we give up Protestantism and become Buddhists we’ll become alright, it’s not so. Supposing we think we’ll become Islamic, we’ll be alright, is all wrong. Because all of them are playing the same game. And the game is this: none of them are enlightened people, none of them are realised. Even the Buddhists, I was surprised that the head of the Zen system fellow who came to India, he has no realisation of any kind. And I was amazed how this man is heading the Zen, in which religion it is definitely hundred times, this Buddhidharma, the founder of that, he has said that, “Unless and until you are a realised soul you are not a Zen.” I mean he said it so clearly, I mean more than anybody else he said it so clearly – even they [are the same]! I was amazed that, all of them have got this kind of a self-opinionated religion. I was amazed! Even this man, the one who said so clearly, Buddhidharma, if you read Zen and his preachings, because he was the founder, you’ll be amazed that he’s said that, “Unless and until you are a realised-soul,” it’s called kashyapas, “Unless and until you are a kashyapa, you are not a Zen.” They are ‘followers’ of Zen! How can you be followers of something? They are blind following the blind. And that’s how they all fall into ditches. All of them are like that. They do not have humility to say that, “Alright, we are not realised-souls. But as Buddha has said, we have to keep to the middle path. Every religion has said that, “Keep to the middle path. Keep to the central path, keep to the normal life.” These Buddhists are they in the normal path? Some of them I have known are horrible people. One disciple who came to me, his name, he called himself ‘Omkar’. He was an Englishman. All his bones were broken. Can you imagine, the backbone, the whole backbone was broken by these lamas! Hitting them on every bone to ‘raise’ this Kundalini! Can you imagine! Such cruelty these people are doing. What do you think of these dalai lamas and these lamas and those lamas? I have been next to dalai lama once, it happened, my husband was secretary of the prime minister of India. And the prime minister’s wife, and we used to go to these parties so I had to go as a hostess and all. This fellow was sitting next to me. He was burning hot and I said, “This fellow is ‘dalai lama’! I can’t understand how is he dalai lama. I mean he’s burning hot!” You see, these lamas lived in Tibet, which is a very poor country. After going there only, we realised how they exploited these poor people. They are so poor. These people are one of the poorest people you could think of, poorest countries. So poor! And these lamas lived there in palaces! They drank their wines in golden cups. By wearing only these yellow dresses you do not become a person who is concerned about poor people there. These were just like parasites! Parasites of the worst type! I have seen these people who follow Buddhism, that you try to wear this dress, make people sacrifice everything; for whom? For these lamas? For whom are you sacrificing?

God doesn’t want you to sacrifice. He doesn’t want you to suffer. He doesn’t want you to suffer at all, believe me! He doesn’t want you to suffer. But you have developed this idea that, “We must suffer for God!” Why? Christ has already suffered for all of us. Or is it anything left for Him to suffer? He suffered so much didn’t he! Do we believe in Him or not? If we believe in Him then we should know that He has suffered. He has suffered so much and now we don’t have to suffer. The only thing [is] we have awaken Him within ourselves. He said that, “Once I am awakened in you everything will be alright.” We have to just awaken Him within ourself. He has done the job for us.

Actually I would say the missionaries from here have never told Indians that such and such [great] person is born. They didn’t. They gave such a bad picture of Christ, you can’t imagine! What they said about Christ was that, “You all should become converted and you’ll be all saved.” And they forced people to be converted. They used to carry Bible in one hand and pistol in another hand and converted people. Now, by branding somebody as ‘saved’ will you be saved by these people, these missionaries? Did they have any power to brand somebody as ‘saved’? They did not! How could they? How did they get their authority? From where? These are all unauthorised.

All of them have been doing things like that. I must tell you, the new generation is now revolting against it. Of course, by revolting against these people, you should not revolt against Christ, not revolt against God. He exists in you. He exists. He exists. When these people gave such a wrong impression about Christ, all the menial castes, all the rotten people, the scum of the Country became Christian. Because they thought, “We all are becoming English people!” Actually people believed in India that Christ was born in England! They all started wearing suits and the way they started wearing frocks and they thought they have become all now English – means Christians. You see this was the problem! But nobody told that Christ was born the way he was: that he’s the one who came and sacrificed his life to save us, to wash our sins. This point nobody said! If they had said that then it is described in the ancient Indian scriptures that Mahavishnu will be born, and he will be born and he will be crucified and he is the one who is going to wash our sins and he is going to be established in the Agnya Chakra. There was no relationship established.

So when it was said that, “Mahavishnu will be born, He will suck all your karmas, all your actions. And unless and until you pass through him, you cannot get realisation.” It is said so that, “Through this part you have to go. He’s the door.” All this is described, “He is the support. He’s the support.” Every time he’s described in our scriptures, in the Devi Mahatmyam. But nobody gave us the proper report then [of him]. Now the thugs as they are, they said, “Alright, your karmas are still there because Mahavishnu’s not born. So you give us money and we’ll recommend to God that your karmas must be sucked in. Your actions must be sucked in.” So the bribing started to God, you see. So all these brahmins started making a lot of money out of poor people, thinking, “Oh for our bad karmas let us give some money to these brahmins. At least they will recommend our case to God and we might be saved.”

All these kind of wrong impressions because nobody went into the clear life of Christ. Then the Jews! Jews denied Christ. They said, “We don’t believe in Christ, we must suffer.” Alright, suffer! They had Mr. Hitler coming down there to teach them a lesson. Now they are making others suffer! Wonderful people they are! It’s all a mess I tell you! One better than the other.

Now it’s time for us to face it clearly. Whatever mistakes are done, whatever disturbances one has created, can be all forgiven as long as we seek and we find our Selves. Everything can be forgiven. It’s like this, that you are in the water then there’s the fear of the sharks and the waves but if you are in the boat, you are out of it. You have to just get out of it that’s all. Whatever has happened has happened. All the mistakes were committed in ignorance. These people who talk about Buddhism and Buddhists, they are all against Buddha. There centre that is catching is of Buddha, you will be amazed. Buddha’s centre is here (pointing to right side of forehead). It is catching. All those who go to Buddhists, our Rita was one of them and there were many just like that, they all had this problem and it was to be corrected. It’s true. We are following them in a blind way I can understand, but at least we should not assert it. We should be in a humble way that still we have not known it. We have to know it. And that’s why these problems are created that: is Buddha greater than this one or Mahavira greater than that or Vishnu greater than that? These are one part and parcel of one body. They are the aspects of one body. Christ Himself has said, “Those who are not against me are with me.” Who are those? They didn’t even allow Christ to talk. He was crucified within three years time, if you see his life with those people, terrible people! Absolutely nonsensical! What was there to crucify Him? But they couldn’t bear that Truth would come, those satanic people. They crucified Him.

So it is the duty of the Christians today to get enlightenment and save all the other Christians. It’s the duty of the Jews, here also there are some Jews sitting, who came from Jew’s land I should say, but now they are Sahaja Yogis, to save the Jews. There are Hindus who must save the Hindus. And all of you have a duty towards all others who are following the same kind of a blind faith. Because there’s nothing wrong in the religions but in the ‘religiosity’ that followed after it.

Alright? It can be corrected. Don’t you worry. Any problems that have arisen people can’t understand when they are Christians, Hindus, Buddhists. How is it their health is so horrible [and] they have all the problems of the world when God is there [and] they are praying to God? How is it that…at least health must be looked after, [but] even that is not alright! Then what’s the use of going to church? And what’s the use of remembering God?

But nothing is wrong with God. God looks after us all the time. Only thing is we have gone into wrong hands.

Any other question?

Sahaja Yogi: How can we Sahaja Yogis work it out when spreading your…

Shri Mataji: The right to the left you have to put [for] him. It’s gone into imbalance. We’ll work it out on him.

Seeker: Should we read The Gita, The Upanishads and should we also read the Gospels as well? Christian Gospels.

Shri Mataji: You see, everybody should read everything, there’s no harm in that. There’s nothing wrong in it. If we can read pornography, we can read [spiritual books] definitely (laughter). But as you said, whether the Christians should read it or not, whether the Hindus should read it or not, I do suggest that these taboos are given by people who want to make money out of you. There’s nothing wrong in The Bible, not a word. I do not find any dissimilar thing, or there is no contradiction or in the Gitas or Vedas or anything. Now Vedas, ‘Vida’ word means ‘the one who knows, the one who is enlightened’. The one who is enlightened is the one only who is the speaker. Now the first verse of the Vedas is that, “If reading this book doesn’t give you enlightenment, better not read it. It has no meaning.”

Christ, what he has said, who is following Him? He said, “You are to be born again.” Alright? Didn’t He say so? Who is following that point that you are to be born again? Who is bothered about it that, “I have to be born again”?

Koran has said [that] there is going to be a resurrection, you are to be resurrected. Muslims, are they following resurrection? Now they are bent upon destroying each other.

For Jews, whatever is said in Judaism is the same thing. I mean if you read any one of these books and anything, it is said that, “You are to be enlightened.” All this is for enlightenment. Because people would have asked, “Why this religion? Why ‘don’t eat this’, ‘don’t eat this’, ‘don’t kill anybody’ ‘be a good person’? Why? Because you should be a human being. And a human being he has these Ten Commandments as his sustenance. That’s why all these religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, all of them believe in the Old Testament and in the Ten Commandments. But to what extent they are going now, if you go and see their Ten Commandments you will be amazed! But to see to the subtle side of Ten Commandments you must be a Realised-soul. For example, there is this commandment that, “Thou shalt not reproduce or recreate whatever is created by the Mother Earth and the Heavens, and worship it.” Now what is created by the Mother Earth? Do they find out? They will find out what is created by Mother Earth. You know when a campus is flown through, you find at different points [that] it just bends. Why does it bend there? It should go straight forward. It bends at one point. They found these two lines going in like that, which goes from north to south and one from west to east. Two lines they meet up. Now what are these lines? What do they mean? Why does it bend? They can’t explain it. They can’t even explain from where do they get the magnetism in the Mother Earth. They cannot explain. They cannot explain many things. Alright. Now, Stonehenge, what is that? I went to Stonehenge. I said, “This is the one which is created by Mother Earth.” You could feel the vibrations. Now these people who go to Stonehenge and do all kinds of this rituals, they don’t know why they go there. In India we have many places where we have these vibrations coming from the stones. And these stones have a form, absolute forms! They have never been chiselled out and you can see the forms there and you are amazed at the forms, how these forms are there. And they give vibrations. For example in a small place called Musalwadi (Maharashtra) they took me down there to find out if that place is vibrated. The question came in about say fifty, sixty years back when a gentleman from England, an engineer, went down there and built a dam. And the dam, at a point, would not stand. It was just exploded. Every time they tried to put a dam there it all exploded. He couldn’t understand. So they called a saint. And the saint said that, “This dam cannot be built this way, you have to go around it, because this place is vibrated. Vibrations are coming out of this place. There’s some sort of a thing that has come out of the Mother Earth.” So, imagine, the dam is like this, and it goes round and then straight. It’s a clever dam, never in my life I’ve seen a dam like that. Now, when I went there I found that it is true. We opened it out and there was a beautiful rock giving cool breeze even in the worst (hottest) summer you get the cool breeze coming out of that place, you can see it. Such a cool breeze! Only a saint can say that because you must have vibrations to feel it. If you are not sensitive enough how can you say? It is [through] vibrations you can say who is a saint, who is not a saint. Because you have not reached that point of absoluteness, still you go by relative. Supposing I come in a sari you may say [that] I am a saint, may not say. You may not be that sensitive to understand. You may understand me as a genuine person. You may say, “No, she is hocus-pocus.” You can say that. But a realised-soul will know who I am. Even if he has never met me he will know who I am. Even [if] I have not met the realised-soul, I will know whether he is realised or not. For example William Blake. The first exhibition I saw, and the last – I have not seen any other exhibition – was of William Blake. And the Sahaja Yogis were surprised why I was so anxious to see William Blake. Because I know who he was. He was a very great soul, very great soul, born in this country to give you a great idea about these great times. But many people don’t like him. He’s gone into such details of the description of Sahaja Yoga that he’s said that, “Men of God will become prophets and they will have powers to make others prophets.” He has used vibrations, the sinews and everything. He’s described it in such details that you can’t imagine! He came to give you a warning. But people think he was mad. Many people think he was mad. I mean, you talk to them, “Oh William Blake! Oh!” They’ll say to me. Because they are not sensitive. They are so gross, so complicated. And this is what he did.

To understand all these religions, to understand the subtle side of what they have been saying, we have to have vibrations. If you read them before you will become confused, it will be contradictory. You will be surprised. You will say, “How can this be? This is not written in The Bible, this is written in The Bible.” They are describing that area which was necessary at that particular time. Then they described another area which was necessary at that time. For example, at the time of Moses it was necessary to establish the religion. At the time of Christ it was necessary to establish the idea of Spirit. And that’s why there’s a difference in what they were teaching and what he was teaching. Because they came at a time when that was needed. At the time of Mohammed something else was needed which he tried to preach. And today is the time of realisation so I am talking of Kundalini and of realisation.

It all is, one after another, we can say, is the opening of the petals of the beauty of Divine. And because a fruit has appeared on the tree will you deny it because last year there were only flowers and today there are fruits? It has come out of the same flowers. These all flowers grew on the same Tree of Life, but at every time they plucked it out [then] they were dying, then they became ugly. They started saying, “This is mine, this is mine, this is mine,” and they are fighting with the dead, nothing living. I am talking about the living God and not of the dead.

So reading any book is just the same, makes no difference. But after enlightenment you will understand that there is no difference in any one of these books. There’s nobody as just chosen by God and the others are discarded. Is a wrong idea we have got. These are all mythical ideas. Our forefathers have lived with it, their forefathers have lived with it. And they cut each other’s throat on this point – what have they achieved? Nothing. This whole world is created by God not for fighting with each other in the name of God! How many fights we have had so far thinking that we are better than others. These are all wrong ideas.

First of all you get your realisation then you will know that they are all part and parcel of one God. So reading all these books is not going to help you till you get your realisation. Alright? So first you get your enlightenment then we’ll talk about the books. Books do not give you the real knowledge, they do not give you realisation. Everybody has been reading books. Anybody can write books. I tell you Christ never wrote any book. Very easy to write books. Anything you want to write, you just have to have little money, that’s all. People have written about witchcraft, about satanic forces. Everything they write. If they have money they can write about anything. So how will you know this is true? Unless and until you have that absolute being awakened within you which gives you absolute values of these.

Now any more questions?

Seeker: Would you say that everybody in the world now is a reincarnation or are there still original souls coming into the world?

Shri Mataji: No, no. They are all reincarnations. No doubt about it. And there are great souls which are being born, who are realised souls. Many children in England are born as realised-souls. This is the time of what we call The Last Judgement. You are going to be judged by your Kundalini, by your awakening [and] by nothing else. Nobody is going to put us on a weighing machine to see. It’s how far you go with your realisation. This is the judgement time that has come. All of us have to get it. As many as can but I don’t know, [the Gospel of] John says that only 144,000 in this whole world! It’s not even 0.000001%! That’s not so. How can it be?

Seeker: Is it not possible for 144,000 maha-mahatmas?

Shri Mataji: Maha-mahatmas? There are so many. Many, many more. They are doing their jobs alright. There are thirty-five crores of devas. But they are all busy doing their job. But you are on the stage. They are working out for your realisation. You are on the stage. Like on the stage when actors enter, they are helped by everybody around – they are in the background. Like that there are so many. That’s what I said that the Divine Itself is anxious to help. That you will realise very soon, as soon as you get your realisation, how you are helped by angels every moment, every minute. Now there are Sahaja Yogis who are smiling because they are all being helped like that. Every second you will find that you are being helped by the Divine. It’s true. I’m not telling you fantastic stories. It’s a fact. Believe me. We live in a world where we have no light, so we believe that way, but once the light comes in you’ll be amazed how you are placed. Just they are ready to do anything that you want. Actually your wantings change, your priorities change. You start wanting something that you never wanted before.

Should we start now?

(to the children) You sit down here quietly. All of you sit down here quietly. (Children are laughing and playing)

You work on him?

Sahaja Yogi: He’s blind Mother.

Shri Mataji: He’s Blind?

Sahaja Yogi: He comes to the meeting in Manchester.

Shri Mataji: When did it happen?

Blind Man: One eye forty odd years ago and the other eye fairly recently, but I can still see just a little.

Shri Mataji: Can you come to London?

Blind Man: Actually my youngest son is married and he’s living in North London and I’m hoping to come down and see him in a few weeks time.

Shri Mataji: You do come along there, now! I am in London these days and we’ll work it out. Alright? Please come, because we’ll have to work it out. It will take some time.

Where did you go for this Buddhism?

Seeker: Well, the story’s much more complicated that and I think it would only confuse the meeting if I were to tell it.

Shri Mataji: Alright, so you come along. Best thing would be [that] you come along. But first of all you write to us and then they’ll let you know. And whatever is the best time, do come there. It’s not difficult. His Agnya’s caught up completely there. That’s all. And let us know your story also if you don’t mind, when you come there. I’ll have to give you some time. Alright? And you’ll have to give some time to yourself.

Yes my child?

Seeker: I’ve got a much more physical fault with my sacrum joint and I wondered if it actually did any damage to the Kundalini? Would it damage it at all?

Shri Mataji: Alright, we’ll see about it.

(Talking about a small child) I don’t know what’s the matter with her today she’s over dynamic. Go and get some flowers for mana. (Child runs off to get flowers, Mother laughs) How free they are! Such a source of joy isn’t it? Alright. So should we start? I think lights are too many here. Could you put off some of the lights?

Is he from some magazine? Which magazine?

Journalist: I’m freelance.

Shri Mataji: You have a magazine of your own?

Journalist: No, just freelance.

Shri Mataji: Recently there was somebody taking my photographs in Delhi, and I didn’t know what he was doing. And then they had a very big article, it came in one of the magazines, you see, which we received in London and I was amazed, the way he was going round I didn’t know he was going into such details about our programmes. And he really wrote very beautifully. You saw that one? Surprisingly I didn’t even know the fellow who he was. I wish I had asked him I thought, who he was. He had written very beautifully and in a very well known magazine which actually deals with more economics and economic affairs. Imagine to put God in there! But he did it. He did it and they published it and it was a very ‘wrong’ magazine. And to support it he got something from other Sahaja Yogis and some scientists and all that. And from them also he got one or two articles to be published. And I didn’t know how he was working it out. But when I saw the magazine I was amazed how he could write all about you!

But why I saw this [is] because he was also taking my photographs all the time so that’s why I asked you. I hope you don’t mind.

Journalist: No Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Alright. Close your eyes now. Because he got his realisation and then he did [the article]. After realisation he worked it out. He was a very genuine man, quite old. I didn’t know really that he was from the magazine but when they wrote to me, the report about him, and I was amazed [that] he was above seventy years of age! And he did so well.

If you can close your eyes. Just please close your eyes.

You have to trust yourself and not to doubt yourself. It will work out in all of you, I promise it will. But don’t doubt yourself.

Also one should not feel guilty. That’s a very bad habit of feeling guilty. All the time, “I’ve done this wrong, that wrong.” In the presence of God you are not guilty at all because He is the ocean of love, the ocean of compassion, the ocean of forgiveness. So give up all that. Just, to begin with, I ask, request, all the people to say, in their hearts, that, “Mother I am not guilty.”

Now, you have to forgive others. Forgive everyone. You might say that, “Mother how can I forgive? I can’t forgive.” But really it’s a myth that we don’t forgive. What do we do when we say we forgive? Nothing!

Actually by remembering all the horrible things done to us we ruin ourselves, we trouble ourselves, we torture ourselves. Just to say, “Mother I forgive.” We have to forgive, as in the Lord’s Prayer, “Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive them, those who trespass against us.” First we have to forgive those who trespass against us so that our God, God Almighty, will forgive us for our trespasses.

These are one of the loads that human beings carry, that they find it difficult to forgive others, that they feel guilty all the time. As I have told you that Christ came on this earth to suck in all our sins and our mistakes.

Now put your right hand on your heart and say in your heart, “Mother I am the Spirit.” You are the Spirit. Just you have to assume. Just say. Say it thrice, with full faith that you are the Spirit. You are the Spirit.

Say it and you will feel the cool breeze in both the hands. In the left hand you will feel the cool breeze. Or ask the question, “Mother, am I the Spirit?” Just ask the question “Mother, am I the Spirit?” You will find the cool breeze in the hand flowing.

Now, if not you put your right hand on top of your forehead with the left hand towards me and just say, “Mother I forgive everyone.” Put it on your forehead because Christ’s place is there. “I forgive everyone.” Just on the forehead.

“I forgive everyone.” Please say it.

Now you must know that God has given you freedom. In your freedom you have to ask for your realisation. I cannot force it on you. I cannot say that, “Alright, you can get your realisation just like that.” You have to ask for it. If you don’t ask I cannot get over your freedom, that’s given to you. God cannot take away what He has given to you.

Now put your right hand on top of your head at the fontanelle bone area, higher than your head, and say, “Mother, please give me my realisation, I want my realisation.” You have to say that, otherwise it’s not possible for me. I cannot cross over to your freedom. You have to come forward to get it.

You’ll find a cool breeze coming out of your head. Now if you are tired put your right hand towards me and left hand [above] and you should get it [on that hand] also again.

The Sahaja Yogis can go and see now if you are getting cool breeze and if you are realised. We have some of them here and they can look after you. Don’t get upset with them. You can do the same tomorrow.

I request the Sahaja Yogis to find out.

*(about William Blake)