Public Program

Friends Meeting House (1903) (Demolished), Cheltenham (England)

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Public Program, Friends Meeting House, Cheltenham UK, 1 August 1982.

Brian, you better be sitted. Let Brian be sitted first. So you are all right, Warren? Get up. Let him sit. He cannot see. Now, it’s all right. I know Chris has already informed you about the advent of Sahaja Yoga. As you know modern times, are great times, for spirituality. Never before, in the history, of this universe, there were so many seekers. Even if you go back, about say twenty five years, people never talked even about seeking. They didn’t know what it was like. But suddenly, this feeling of seeking, has become very strong all over the world. There must be some special reason for that. When the seeking is felt, not necessarily we know what we are seeking. It’s not necessary that we know what we have to seek. Also it is not necessary to understand how to seek. But a feeling of urge, a tremendous urge within us, makes us feel, that there is something beyond we have to seek also, that we don’t feel satisfied with what we have. There must be something more that we should know. Whatever we have known so far as human beings, we do not feel contented by that. All the countries who have had affluence, had this urge much more. than the countries who are still, aspiring for affluence, for a plastic development, you can call it. In the affluent countries only people are realizing more that the joy is not in the matter. It is somewhere else. It is not in the possession of matter. It is somewhere else that we will find the joy, and so the eyes are turned, towards the new role of achieving something that is not yet known to us. So this urge within us, this urge within us is something so innate, so built in us. As animals have urge to eat and satisfy their hunger, there’s a category of human beings who are feeling this urge, within themselves. Now what is that urge? And what do we have to find? We have to find the meaning of our life. We have to find out why are we here. We have to know why from amoeba stage we have become human beings. What was the need for the nature to take us through these, these various stages of our evolution, to make us human beings as we are. What is the purpose of this life? Why are we on this earth? Is there any purpose or not? Or it is all purposeless? That we should wonder, from this stage to another stage. And now is that the last stage, stage when we are human beings. Is this the complete maturity that we have achieved of our evolution? Is this the end of our evolution or we have to evolve more? Whether I go to cities or to villages, whether I go to universities or to places like Russia, where people are educated in a different way, I find everyone has this. You’ll be amazed, even if you are democratic or you are communistic or anything you are, they all are feeling that whatever they have, is not their goal. There’s something more that is needed. That’s how the seeking is on and on and on. I’m so very happy to see that there are so many seekers in Cheltenham, that they have come here to know about seeking, to find out what we have to seek. As I told you the seeking is innate, that is built in within us. It has something to do with our evolutionary process which is a living process. Perhaps you never realized what Christ talked about the living God. We do not understand what it means by a living God. That’s why we get confused. We cannot pay for living things. We cannot. For example a seed has to sprout, it will sprout. If you put it into Mother Earth, it will sprout by itself spontaneously, you can’t pay for it. You cannot pay to the seed, “All right, I pay you one pound. Will you please sprout?” You see a flower suddenly becomes a fruit or a tree. We are not paying anything to the flower. It has become spontaneously. Thousands of such flowers are becoming fruit. We can’t do that. If we want, we can’t do it. It just works out. We see all these miracles every day, but we do not think how it has happened. What is that power which has done this job? Then the discrimination, supposing, if you sow a seed, which have peaches [in the tree], you won’t get mangoes out of peach tree. You can’t. And imagine the amount of beautiful arrangement and analytical planning. How it works out? Your child looks like you. In the human body it is said that, anything foreign, goes in this human body is thrown out. But doctors cannot explain when the fetus takes its moves in the body, why they can’t throw away? It should be thrown away, under all principles of natural laws. But there’s something that looks after it, nourishes it, allows it to grow and when it has come to that stage, it comes out. There are thousand and one things I can tell you that nature is doing for us which we take for granted. All this is done by the All Pervading Divine Power. I call it, this is the Love of God. It’s the power of Holy Ghost, who does all these things. But why should you believe? In these days nobody believes anymore. That’s a good idea. But they do. If you are mesmerized you will. That’s how many gurus have mesmerized, taken money, made big, big empires for themselves. Because in freedom to understand, you need innocence, you need sensitivity, which I am afraid is attacked every moment in the modern life. The matter it is sitting on our head. It doesn’t allow our spontaneity. The matter is all the time enveloping us, and the Spirit is lost. So, when you say about Spirit, we must know that we have to seek our Spirit, the Spirit which is within us, which is in our heart, which we have to seek, means this conscious mind, should feel the presence of Spirit within us. We know, and we have read should there must be Spirit somewhere. We also heard that the Spirit is the one we have to get, that we have to be born again. All right. So? We accept it. But how this is going to happen? Because it’s a living process, because it’s an evolutionary process it will happen spontaneously by itself. As you have become a human being from the monkey stage, what have you done about it? Nothing. Effortlessly you have become a human being. In the same way, if it has to happen, it has to happen effortlessly. If you have to go higher, than this stage of your existence as a human being, it has to happen effortlessly, without organizing, without planning it. The plan, is the plan of the nature, the divine plan that has to grow. Is the Divine that has to give you the grace doing it. But in the modern times we don’t believe in the Divine. We don’t want to talk of God. We don’t want to say that there is God, naturally. Because those who talked of God, mislaid us. They made all kinds of mistakes, I agree that. They didn’t know what was to be done or maybe they were ignorant about it. All the religions, every religion. Not a fad or a cult but a religion, has said that you are to be born again. You are to be resurrected. This is being said and promised. It has to happen. But how? Again, the mind is such that it asks, “How?”. I again say, “Spontaneously, by itself”. That it has to happen, that you have to become the Spirit. But we get lost when people talk. Some have got, sometimes…. say Australia I’ve met some people, they said, “We are born again”. Self-certified born again. I said, “Really? That’s nice. My job is over. I’m very happy that you are twice born.” I said, “But how do you say you are born again?” What is the certificate? Movie imagined? I said, “Somehow, supposing tomorrow I say, “I’m the queen of England and go round”, nobody is going to believe Me. Perhaps they might arrest Me. I said they are all self-certificate ideas [unclear] “If I have that, I’m born again”. No wisdom. “According to Bible we are born again”. What is according to Bible? They are many who have controverted Me, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Muslims. I asked them, “What is according to Bible should happen to you when you are born again? What Christ has said, in very, very simple words? Your hands will speak.” Your hands will speak. That means there will be a new kind of a sensitivity on your hands. That means your central nervous system will achieve a new dimension, a new awareness. In modern times, we have psychologists like Jung who have said, that if you have to become something higher, you will be, be again, not imagination, not self-certificate, but actualization, actually you will be collectively conscious. This is the criteria. That you have to become. It is to be actualized. It is not just somebody say, “Oh, you are collectively [unclear]”. How? Because you are now jumping together? Now, as I’ve told you the [thing is very different] that, living processes we cannot do. We can do only dead things. Like a tree is, then we make a table out of it, make a chair, sit on the chair. The chair sits on our head. We can’t sit without the chair. These are dead things. Can we transform one flower into fruit? So something then should happen to you which you cannot do. Jumping together, what’s so great? All such things that we do, can, we can do without becoming twice born. All such ideas that people have, that if you start behaving like a wild animal, you are a realized soul, I must say they are sadly mistaken. Or that you start flying in the air, this is also, it’s stupid. Because now we are not going to become birds or frogs. We are going to become something great, within ourselves, in our awareness, we are going to achieve something more. So those who want to teach you how to fly, you should, need not give them three thousand pounds each. You better tell them to fly first of all. See how they fly. Drop them from this tower of Pisa. I think it was built for such people only. I used to wonder why this was so specially raised. It’s better to try these people from there and see if they can fly even an inch. All such false stories we believe because they have a circus with them. Because they are not simple, they are complicated and to our complicated mind they sound very well. God knows what they talk, talk of something, and we say, “Oh, he must be a perfect master, the way he talks”. God knows what he is and what he does. But we have to ask questions what have we got ourselves. It is promised that you will be the Spirit, that you will becoming the Spirit. That means your conscious mind will know the Spirit, that the light of Spirit will come into you, will give you the power of the Spirit. We have to see, did we get that power? We have to find out. And spirit means dead bodies, dead souls. They put you into some sort of a mesmerism, and you have to believe, “Oh, we are very spiritual people”. Like so many cults I’ve seen, they end up in suicides, and they end up in all kinds of fancy things, wine, madness. You become a very noble, very dignified, very knowledgeable people. And the knowledge about which people have said, that you will have the knowledge, is not the bookish knowledge. It’s not what you read in the books, or even from, from the Bible what you read, it’s not what is written there. You have to have those deep insides to read what’s written in these books. Christ never went into any school, into any college or university. And He was so knowledgeable. There are many like this in India, we can say people who are realized souls, perhaps never went for any, because they are knowledge. So what does knowledge mean then? Means that your awareness should grow. One should understand what is the difference between a book knowledge and the awareness should know. For example, animals have no awareness for cleanliness, neatness, they have no awareness of that. You can take a horse to any place, you don’t need anything to cover his nose. At the most you can cover his eyes because he may go here and there. But for a human being to pass through such dirty places, may be impossible. He may have to cover his nose. So the awareness of human beings, as far as cleanliness is concerned beauty is concerned is much greater. But when he becomes a realized soul what happens to his awareness? First and foremost he becomes collectively conscious. that he knows what’s wrong with other people. His hands speak. These five fingers, six and seven, represent the five sympathetic subtle centers within us and these five seven of these and seven of these. And these seven, five, six and seven, and seven on this side combine together to form these centers which are subtle centers, one on the left hand side, one on the right hand side. Only on your fingers, you can feel a person and can say, “All right, this gentleman is having a problem here.” That means it’s something from this center, maybe he has got bronchitis, or he has cold [trouble] or something like that, he’s got some sort of a fever, or if you know it very well, if the sensitivity feels… So the awareness that we have, becomes the dynamic awareness by which we start feeling others. We start understanding the problems of others, physical, mental and emotional, on our fingers. Even this child, Lucia, is a born realized. There are many born realized children now in England. Just on their fingers they can say, what finger is catching, what finger is burning, what finger is numb. Then the knowledge about yourself is also there. You can also find out about yourself what center you are catching. Now supposing a person is very egoistical, If you tell him that, “You are egoistical”, you’ll never see him again. God knows what will happen. But, after Realization, he himself will come and say, “Mother, my Agnya, is catching. Better take over, put it all right.” Because he starts seeing this in and he doesn’t like. Like say, My sari, gets a some sort of a spot and I can’t see it. So, it’s all right, if you say, “Your sari is dirty”, I may not like it. But if I see it, if there is light and see it myself, I’m not identified with that thought, or with that dirt, I want to clean it. Because you know about yourself, you are separated from yourself, you start seeing all these on yourself, you want to clean it because you don’t like it, because they obstruct you. That is what happens to you. When you have, this dynamic power in your attention, which tells you what’s wrong with you, what’s wrong with others, you start feeling the cool breeze for the first time, of the Holy Ghost, the All pervading Power. In the Bible, once Christ was walking and some lady held His cloth, and He said, “Who has touched Me?” His energy passed through Him. That time we didn’t have realized people, so He was crucified. They were blind. They didn’t know what He was. How will they know? He talked all right, but so what? He talked of few things, so what? There were a lot people with eyes, they didn’t like Him. They crucified Him. They didn’t want to accept at that time that their Mesia has come, that their Savior has come. They couldn’t believe that in their lifetime somebody has come now, and they stand in face to face with reality. They wouldn’t accept it. I wish they had. On the contrary, within three years time Christ was crucified. Because He talked about you, because He told them about the reality. They couldn’t appreciate that He was pointing out to something which they did. They wanted to have a Mesia after two thousand years, even after that, that time must be three thousand years. And they wouldn’t believe that Christ suffered, suffered for their sins. They want to have sufferings, so they had this massacre. He has suffered for us. That means such a lot. It means that people wouldn’t have to suffer anymore. It means that all your karma, have no meaning in the presence of Divine now. It means if Christ is awakened within you, He sucks in all your karma’s, your conditioning’s, and also the so-called selfishness. He is placed here, in the center of Agnya chakra. One after another we have been making mistakes, so many mistakes, it takes only the life of Christ. Then about Mohamed, about everybody else, that they went to India and never told that Christ is born, that He has lived and has died on the cross, the way should have been told because already described. They have already described about Him, and such and such great soul will be born, whom He will be, from what level of awareness he’ll be coming, what He will be doing, what will be His work, in the Indian Scriptures. Only the name was Mahavishnu. If you read about Him, you’ll be amazed, to such detail they have described Him. Even about Mohamed they described in ancient Scriptures. But the way they went to India, those who are talking of Christ, imagine they are Christians, most violent people, I should say. With a pistol in the hand and Bible in the other. I’ve seen people who talk of Christ are extremely violent, disturbing, and sometimes, shamelessly anti-Christ. And the way they behave, and nobody could believe that such a great personality is already born. They carried on with these karma theories, and that’s, what to do, [there are karmic laws]. If you tell them, “I’ve paid you three thousand pounds, now what about my ascent?” They’ll say, “Oh, but your karma’s are still there”. One even told that “I just can manage one sixteenth of it, the rest you have to manage”. So you paid only for the one sixteenth, you have to pay for the rest perhaps. All these nonsensical things in the name of God, has been going on for ages now. My forefathers did it, your forefathers did it and all of them have been doing it. Poor things, they didn’t know what they have done, how they have been put into such horrible lace of misguidance. But now, let us understand that the guide has come, for all of us, to be the Spirit. You are seekers of ages. That’s how you are here. And you have to find your Spirit. You have to have little patience with yourself. But it’s one thing I ask you, as I have patience for you, you have to have patience for yourself. That’s all. Nothing else is needed. It will just work out without any difficulty, I’m quite sure of it. You had such a great poet like William Blake, who has said, that men of God will become prophets, and they will have powers to make others prophets. Whatever mistakes you have committed have to be forgiven. Because if this world is to be saved, His creation, that’s the epitome of creation, the human beings if they are to be saved, the Divine Itself, that God Almighty, has to use all His might, to save you. Because He has created you. He’s going to do it. But we have to be little humble about it and it works out. It has worked wonders. Many people ask Me that in India, I’m more effective. No doubt, because Indians are simple people, in the villages, in the smaller places, not the cities and more sort of complicated, you see. And they are very easy to get Realization and to settle down. For them this knowledge is already there. They know what to expect. They know what happens, you see. It’s described, that you will get the cool breeze. In the Bible also it is there, but we just get a glimpse here and there, because people didn’t allow Him to even talk. They didn’t give Him any chance. They just killed Him. But India has the heritage in this, and they have full ideas to what it is and how to recognize a saint. They know. Everybody knows who is a saint, in India. They are not easily taken up by people who are doing all kinds of tricks. Only the modern people you see, they, who are, who have had no idea of the ancient, Scriptures and warnings can be befooled but not those who know about it. Or only the naive, who have had no education about their heritage can be mislead. Then people say, “Mother why are You so much anxious to be in England?” So I came to England just by chance, spontaneously. As you know My husband got elected with this job. And this agency of the U.N. is London based. This is the only agency you have. All agencies are in Geneva, or in Rome or in New York. But this is the only maritime agency you have, for which he got elected by so many countries. And just I am here. Maybe it is all being planned. As William Blake has said, “England has to become Jerusalem”. It has to become. English people have a special responsibility. And need not be influenced by French or Americans. They are quite sensible, balanced people. If they can stand on their own personality they can see clearly, that everything circulates through them. England is the hearth of the Universe. Whatever happens in England circulates all over. Your prince got married. So many princes get married, all over the world. That’s a special place you are born. And you are the sense of this dynamic heart. Perhaps it is yet not awakened to its own nature, into that subtle situation where you can realize how it is related to the whole universe. But whatever it is once you get your Realization you will realize what is the situation is like. Subject matter is too big. And in London itself, I don’t know how many, five hundred, six hundred lectures I’ve already given. And you can also hear My tapes, sometimes later. They can’t come and all accept it. Today, though it’s much easier, to get your Realization, when you come in this room, there’s darkness, you can’t see anything. It’s much easy to press the button to get the light, than to explain all the history about electricity, and specially of Cheltenham, when the electricity came here and how it was done. It’s better to ask you just to come to this place an get the light. After getting the light we can talk of it. That’s much better to understand. I’m very happy at this opportunity, they could get because of the seminar here, and I could meet you. I would request you if you have any questions. please ask Me. Then we’ll have the session of Self Realization and please don’t be violent with Me. I’m very clever and I know how to [calm it down]. If you have to be argumentative, I can do it in England, in London, if you come down for a cup of tea. We have a nice Georgian house, you’ll enjoy that. But here let us speak careful because we should not indulge into the activities as they say “dog in the manger”. There are so many who are anxiously waiting for this happening. Let them have it. If you have any questions you can ask Me but don’t try to fight with Me. I’ve not come here to fight with you. I’ve just come here to relate you to your Spirit. Once you get it, you can give it to others also. It’s just like one enlightened light can enlighten other and the other enlightened light can enlighten another. Simple as that, absolutely simple. So please ask Me questions if you have any and I think it will work out this Realization. Shri Mataji: -Yes.\NP: We had talked, if you could tell us where your teachings come from, [if you can share that]. Shri Mataji: – What is it?\NP: – Where exactly your teaching come from? P: -Who has taught you?\NSY: Where do Your teachings come from? P: – Where do your teachings come from? Shri Mataji: – They didn’t find out yet. Find out later, all right? When you will get the light you’ll be quite [unclear] to it. All right? P: I also want to ask that something, when the light is switched on sometimes is too tough for the everyday person to actually accept [unclear] and… You see it’s not a question if you are accepting or not accepting. That’s one thing one should know. Because you see one thing is that you see our attitude in seeking also, has become like a shopping deal attitude. You can say you will be, ” If we want we buy our seeking, buy it”. That’s not the point, you see here nobody is selling anything, [all right]? Secondly it is a thing that you have. It’s not for me to achieve it. For example we went to this place where we had the seminar. It’s a beautiful place, spread out [further]. Now if you want to enjoy it, enjoy it, if you want to close your eyes you can close. It’s like that. All right? No question of accepting. It is there. If you want to have it have it, or if you don’t want to have it don’t have it. You cannot force it on anybody. Like a question of your mental acceptance [unclear] because this is beyond your thinking. You mind is limited. It is unlimited happening. Now say the river is flowing, like river Ganges we can say, is flowing. If you want to fill your pitcher well and good, she is not going to force on you. You may say that I don’t accept you as guru. That’s not the point here at all. You see, that you can say to the gurus who take money from you. You have paid for it, all right. So you can judge him. Here it is question, if you want to have your Realization I’m here for you. If you don’t want it , all right I don’t want anything from you. You can’t give Me anything. That’s one point. You just can’t give Me anything. I’m on the giving here. Whether you accept it or not, it’s yours, that’s not My [own]. I am on the giving point. It’s very common in the west, because they think I’m selling something, you know. If I am selling something, you can say I don’t want to accept or I accept. It’s not that. It’s [within] you, which is there. Whether you accept it or not, is not the point. I didn’t say, I didn’t give you any opinion of Mine about it. It’s not an opinion whether you feel accepted. I just give you a statement of practice is this, this is this. And this is what you have within yourself, all right? Now if you want to have your Realization, I’m here. If you don’t want to have it, all right. I cannot force and I do not promise also it will work out. May, may not. That’s it. What is going to accept or not? You do not know anything about the Spirit. Through your mental activity how are you going to judge? But you have judged that way, I’ve seen it. Where it has to be judged still people don’t, otherwise they would not have fallen a pray to these horrible gurus. They just go ahead a lot into these things. All kinds of nonsense they do in the name of God, in the name of seeking, in the name of finding something, without thinking about. I don’t want anything from you. Actually I don’t need anything, nor do I want anything. I have thought to give you something. P: -Will I be able to [cure people]?\NShri Mataji: -I beg your pardon. Will I be able to cure people? Shri Mataji: -I?\NP: – No, would I be able to cure people? Shri Mataji: Why not? She now understands. You know what you are. You are a human being. For ages I’ve taken to make you a human being. And there should be no diffidence. This is the most beautiful thing that you have. This cures cancer. This cures all kind of mental troubles, emotional troubles, physical troubles, because the source of all the vitality starts flowing through you. Supposing you are driving the car, your car is getting exhausted or the petrol is getting exhausted so you are worried? You are in tension. But if there is some way by which an opening takes place and there’s a flow of petrol all the time [being there]. It’s fulfilling. It compliments you. It gives you a meaning. You’ll become beautiful within. Don’t have any diffidence about it, nor too much confidence that you get it. I hope all of you will get it. I can only work it out, but I can’t promise. All right? Take another question. Whose that one? Any question? P: How do you know whether and what you have self hypnotized yourself? Shri Mataji: -Me? P: -Yes. [I don’t mean, You in person], Shri Mataji: No, very simple. You know it’s very easy to understand, you see, it’s very simple to understand. It’s not difficult, I tell you. How do we know that we are not self hypnotized or you are not under some hypnosis. It’s very simple to know. I don’t know why the psychologist have not told you about it. They tell you all nonsensical things, why don’t you tell this is a simple thing you want to know. What happens when you are hypnotized? What happens that you do things without being understanding about. But Sahaja Yoga is not like that. Not only that I know but once you get your Realization… [Now here] there’s a doctor sitting here. He is psychologist. He used to do many things because Jung has said it, Freud has said it, but in Sahaja Yoga you know what you have to do. You know what you are, what we are. For example, I have to give you Realization, you take it from Me. All right? So what I want to try to do? I try to raise your Kundalini. There’s a force, There’s a force, residual force within you which I try to raise. Now what happens that in your triangular bone which is called as sacrum you can see the pulsation. Others you may not see, you may not feel. If you are a very good simple person I should say, good means simple person, no complication physical, emotional or anything, it will just shoot out. You won’t be able to see anything. It’s like a very good landing, you see. But supposing there’s a complication in your liver or in the stomach everyone of you can see the pulsation in the sacrum bone. Now see the name sacrum bone also comes means sacred. And I found out Greeks knew about it, they knew about it. Now you can see it with your own eyes. Then you put a stethoscope, all right? And you can feel the pulsation phases. Anybody can feel it. Then it opens out this fontanel bone area. You can feel the cool breeze coming out. You can feel also the cool breeze coming out of your hands. It is so clear cut that we have here three-four doctors now, means Sahaja Yogis. They also now use diagnosing through Sahaja Yoga. It’s so clear-cut and you know what you are doing about. There’s a gentleman who got Realization who was also little bit thinking “I hope I am not hypnotized”. This way everybody thinks, everybody is frightened in this country, I don’t know why. But he was quite frightened, I thought maybe these gurus had done some harm, maybe that. I don’t want to say no. And he said, “Mother you said that you can have information about people who are aware”. I said, “Yes, you can”. “I want to know about my father”. I said, “All right, put your hands and see where is the vibrations, what happens into you. And he felt a burning on this part. “Now these are the centers of your father”. I said, “That means this center is catching so he’s down with bronchitis, very simple type of bronchitis. His father was in Scotland, he telephoned to him and found out that he was down with bronchitis. But that’s not enough. You know how to cure people. It’s not just to touch somebody, no. And I would say the biggest example it will convince you people is of one president, Sanjiva Reddy. He was operated in America and the operation failed. He came to London when he was in a very bad state and they could not do anything about it. They were preparing for his last crisis and death. I just went to see him with My husband and the High Commissioner here just mentioned that My, I have another name as Mataji Nirmala Devi. His wife had heard about Me, she said, “Oh, if you are here, please save my husband”. You won’t believe, I just touched him for ten minutes only. I didn’t know what I was doing, what he was suffering from, I knew what was the problem, what was the…. They didn’t tell Me anything. I knew. And he’s cured. Even today he’s the President of India. So there is no question of self hypnosis because in hypnosis you don’t know what you are doing. Here I know everything what I am doing, not only, but you will also. It’s no question of only My doing. Now, I’m not here in Cheltenham but if some Sahaja Yogi is here, can do it. We have somebody now from America and there was a boy who was patient of leukemia, and he was in India but he went to America in New York, he was there. And we had some people there. And the father came to Me, grandfather came to Me and his mother. They wanted the child to be saved I said, “All right, we’ll try”. I said, “I can’t go [with you to] your village now. But you can go to Pune and telephone from here to Christine – who is here now, she’s here – and tell her that such and such child is there who’s only hardly, what was the age, I think sixteen or something. Sixteen. And the doctor said, declared that within one month he’s going to die. I said, “You just go and work out Sahaja Yoga on him”. He was completely cured, he came to see me in England, in London, he was there, and he is now in India, he’s all right. Now this is only, curing is one part. It’s just a byproduct. Because I’m just telling you, it’s so gross that people understand it better. If the subtle thing is quite [all right], can be. We have many people who are here who were drug addicts, alcoholics, worst type. Within one day they gave it up, within one day. But I know what I’m doing and once you are a Sahaja Yogi you can do it also. They know each and everything. P: My understanding [is exactly] the same as You, by instinct. Shri Mataji: – What’s it? P: – The experience given by instinct and the experience determined what we did far. So until we can do, we cannot be in the truth. So much trying to be in the truth. Shri Mataji: Yes, that’s it. Unless and until you become a realized soul, you don’t know the truth. That’s a fact. You have to become a realized soul. Because just now, like a microscope, if you don’t have you cannot see microscope [molecules]. All right? You have to have a microscope. In the same way you have to have the Spirit to know about God, to know about everything. Say for example, it’s a myth for people, to believe it’s God or not, to believe in God or not because makes no difference because it’s a myth, in a way. But it’s not. For Me it’s the truth and for you also it will be. Because once you raise the Kundalini, what happens you start feeling these vibrations, which are from the absolute. Now you ask a questions about Christ, say a big problem they have about His immaculate birth. Was that immaculate? You just feel tremendous vibrations. You ask about, “Is there God?” Tremendous vibrations. But if you want to ask about some person who is a fake person, “Is he a realized soul?” You might get burning. Sometimes you even get little blisters and that. Your hands will speak. That means you hands are not yet speaking, they have to speak. Is very simple to make out if you are hypnotized or not. I’ve had people, say from this transcendental one. They became epileptic, they came to Me. I said, “Till you became epileptic why didn’t you know?” What was happening to you? They said, “We didn’t know what was happening, you see it was like going under the blanket. We didn’t know where we were moving”. All of them, they don’t know anything about it. When I talk of knowledge I don’t mean that you turn any center and you then just see a light. Or you get some sort of a pinprick or any springing’s. That you can get it with alcohol also. Is the knowledge, again I say is the awareness, again, is the awareness. You become much more alert, much more knowledgeable The psychologists have kept all these things to themselves, that’s the problem with them is. Very dangerous people. They should have told what hypnosis is but they themselves are hypnotized, I think. Today, we are really dealing with pathological and [unclear]. Because hypnosis is very easy to [meet]. Very easy to [meet] another person who is hypnotized. They say, “I’m in love and I am in love my wooer and I love my wooer”. What is that? It’s not that. [unclear]. Very good question. Any other question please? All right, let’s have it then. Fine. It’s very simple. One thing is anti-hypnosis that you have to close your eyes. Once also I’ve seen one thing happened. You know people, that thing you are suspicious, that I understand. You see, you have to be suspicious, the way things happen these days [unclear] just now when I was…. [a lady for instance] in the program because she told Me, “Mother… I said, “Why didn’t you get your Realization for one year? What happened? What was the thing that was a… So she told Me a story, it was very interesting. She said, “Mother you asked us to close our eyes and I didn’t close my eyes [unclear]. And then what happened that some people must have come in, perhaps You said “All right, come along” because You wanted we to settle down and try to sit. So I thought that you are saying, “Open the door and the people will feel the cool breeze”. That was her… Seeing My gesture she misunderstood. And that’s how, you know, she started doubting Me. Just find it. Then she said, “I saw it many times. Used to do the same and people came and we were meditating, “You should sit down”. One year, poor thing didn’t get her Realization, can you imagine? And like that, you see, sometimes happens. There was another one who was angry with Me. She said that, “Mother, You had promised that you give me Realization, [when You’ll be coming]. She was just like, you see, ordering Me, Why didn’t You give me my Realization now? I said, “All right I did promise, all right. What did I say to you?” I told her she has to be kind to her husband – she’s very unkind to him – to her own children. She’s very self indulgent. I told her, “You can’t be that selfish and get Realization. Please try. Open your hearth. But she became worse with that. She said, “No”. I said, “I know what you for definite you are”. You don’t tell me lies. I know that.” So, the next lady to her, she said, “Why not? You came in the morning, you telephoned against your children and your husband. You have been doing wrong things to them”. You have to be kind to people to get God’s kindness, isn’t it? It’s important. I’m talking of love of God. He loves you because you love others. Close your eyes please now. You can’t see Me there, isn’t it? Pamela? That’s why it’s That’s why you see Jack in the box. All right, please close your eyes. Now, I have to say one thing. It’s a very great thing that will happen to you. For this you are taken many births and this is what you have been asking for. But it’s not a crucifixion. It’s a very cheerful thing. So have a cheerful attitude towards it. Not frivolous or flippant but cheerful. Because we are seeking our joy. We have to love ourselves, we have to respect our glory. Many people have, most problem in the west is that they are guilty all the time. Morning till evening they are sitting down. I think they see to many films of people in the High Court or something that they always sit down and say “I’m guilty of this and this and that”. So the first thing we have to say is to assert that “Mother, I’m not guilty”. Please say thrice, “Mother I’m not guilty and I can cope with it”. Put your hands like this. All right. There’s nothing to feel guilty. You have not murdered anyone. I’m talking of God Almighty, who is the ocean of compassion, ocean of love, ocean of forgiveness. What guilt can you have? So please don’t have any guilt. Just say very clearly that Mother, “I have no guilt, I’m not guilty”. Just say that. Close your eyes, please. And open your eyes when I tell you, because when the Kundalini rises at the Agnya chakra there’s a dilatation of the pupil. If your eyes are not closed it may not rise. it’s just here again, other way round of the process. In hypnosis they hypnotize through the eyes. Close your eyes, just close your eyes. The attention has go inside. You cannot force it. Something has to happen inside to attract your attention and that’s how your attention is strong. By the awakening of the Kundalini you get your Realization and the Spirit shines through your attention. Your attention becomes enlightened and effective. Please keep your eyes shut.