Talk to Sahaja Yogis, Talk about Media
Now you’ve got a good one in Brighton also. I was amazed. How did you manage that? The Brighton Show. These are the Kathoris they sent you from India? These ones?
Sahaja yogini: I’m not sure Mother.
Shri Mataji: You’ve bought them here?
Sahaja yogini: I think they were bought here, yes Mother.
Shri Mataji: But they had given them some plates I think.
Hello. Come. Come. Yesterday. How are you now? Are you good now? Are you alright?
[Shri Mataji gives a kiss to the child]
Very cold. Hands are very cold.
Channa. [Shri Mataji eats some channas.]
[To the child]: Now get me some water, alright?
Sahaja Yogi: Are the lights alright Mother?
Shri Mataji: What is this, am I going to lecture now?
Sahaja Yogi: In Australia they did like to see you any of the time anywhere.
Shri Mataji: Is it? But what am I supposed to do, I’ve come just to consult about this journalism.
I think, Brian you should come here and let’s see what is the agenda, how are we going to work it out.
Now better say now how are we going to work it out here, what should we do? First my suggestions are given, then you give me your suggestions about that.
I personally think this way, that we should have a formal body, formal, of people who will deal with the journalistic side. Call it by any name. They are calling in America I have given them a name: Golden Age International.
So you have a formal body, then you must have for that a proper card system you see and a kind of a appeal or something, letter of introduction. It’s a very Krishna’s work, you see, very subtle work of Shri Krishna. That’s why we have to have very clever people in this, rather mischievous. Too much honesty, so called, with this all dishonest world, will not take us to higher goals. So, to go to higher goals, you have to sacrifice little lower goals, like you see, that: “We should have only the name of Sahaja Yoga and we should come out as Sahaja Yogis.” We may land up in jail if you start that.
So, come as something else.
Now have a form, with a proper message that: “We are here to contact all the people who have alternatives, to create the Golden Age”. So on one side we will have a, we’ll have a face by which people will think you are all neutral people and you can have approach to them directly. And on the other side-
Sahaja Yogini: Some biscuits Mother.
Shri Mataji: You made them?
Sahaja yogini: Yes Mother.
Shri Mataji: Beautiful. Thank you. That will do.
You’re looking very pale, what’s the matter? In the face. Working very hard?
Sahaja Yogini : Yes.
Shri Mataji: Take it easy now. You’d better give her some rest now.
Now after having that form, on one side you’ll have a face by which you can meet people, you can reach them easily. You’ll have your own cards, send them the cards, you are International Golden Age people responsable.
Wear a formal dress, don’t go like hippies.
Because we have tried straightforward methods, they have failed. And we have to save the world, that’s our job, that’s the real higher goal we have to achieve. By hook or crook you have to save them. Otherwise they’ll be all finished. If you can’t take them out, out of the water by pulling with your hand, put a hook round them and bring them out.
Useless, blind, nonsensical people, they don’t want to see the point. What to do? Alright.
So one side you’ll have a face, another side you’ll be always in touch of others who are trying to form the alternative. Other gurus, other false people, other thing. So very cleverly bring them down to Sahaja Yoga. It’s a fifth columnist behavior.
You have to enter into them and tell them ultimately, this is no good. Exposing all of them, one by one. Because you will be a body, a form of a body that nobody can ask for your boon up ideas and when you enter into these alternatives you can just see the point and say, this is this.
We did that, Brian did that in Australia, even they brought in Sahaja Yoga into some problem a little bit and then it was, they asked for forgiveness and the whole joke was out, and the people didn’t understand, that’s how it brought Sahaja Yoga to a great level. Isn’t it Brian? It was a big drama they played. [Shri Mataji laughs]
And actually Terrence wrote against them that these people came to Sahaja Yoga this thing and how are they blaming us for something and then it was a big, you see, drama and then it was said later on ”No nothing like Sahaj Yoga” you see? Something like that we have to play.
No simple methods are going to work with these cunning people, extremely cunning. Journalists here are very cunning people, extremely cunning.
So, now when you have immediately become formal, so you can find out all the newspapers, all the editors and go to see them, you must have black suits, yards of them, with white lines you see, and with oil in the head.
If they’re purely English that’s the best. I mean a little mixed blood may be alright, but not too much. But don’t take a person who is from Scotland to an English editor. See there are basic bias, differences. The bias is there. So better take a Scotch one to Scotland, right? And speak with a little accent. These are stupid people I tell you. All this is done, imagine on Vishuddhi. Can you imagine? This is the job of Vishuddhi, so many styles it is. It’s not only that you have to speak about it, that is has to go all over through these medias are nothing but Vishuddhis because they have to be witness and they have to manifest it in enlarging this message. They are supposed to do it. They are placed there for this reason. So if they don’t do it, better use the other side of it. Befool them and use them. Because they are there only for this purpose, why God has created them and put them in this position, just think of it, how did they get these medias, why God has given them? Just think of it.
They’re doing all kinds of nonsensical things, they are wasting people’s energy into all useless enterprises. They don’t want to do God’s work, so you better befool them and make them do it. That’s what they deserve.
Why God has given them all these powers? They haven’t achieved anything of their own, can they create even a leaf? Even dust they cannot create on their own. Can they? Nothing can be created by man on his own, can he? He has to use something from nature.
So on one side we have this. Now there was one priest, on his own he did this experiment, he is a Catholic priest. So he joined an organization which was trying to save people from all other gurus, false gurus you see. He tries to save them. And he became quite prominent there. And then, instead of sending them to Catholic church he sent them to Sahaja Yoga. And he said: “Let me behave Mother like a priest, it’s a good idea. I don’t want to get out from here, because then I can catch real people and send them over”. That’s how we got Benard and all that people, he sent them. And he makes fun of pope, he makes fun of everyone and he is there laughing aloud he said and he’s arranging all that. Somebody met him and he said that “I’ve been to this and that so he said now I think I’m fed up, I’ll go to Catholicism”. He said: “Did you try Sahaja Yoga? Better try, that’s the last one, you try that”.
He’s a very interesting, intelligent man and he comes to my program all right. Somebody asked him that why do you go to Sahaja Yoga program? He said: “I have to find out there also may be some people lost you see, so I must find them out”.
He comes to see me. A very interesting person, very interesting, he’s a priest. And also the lady, chief lady who is doing the job, he’s made her a Sahaja Yogi. And also this Marie has joined that organization, so there are three Sahaja Yogis, one is the head, another is the secretary and the other is Marie, who are trying to save people to go to Catholic church, imagine, they are actually saving people from Catholic church.
So this kind of a thing you must form. Then you must have a very gentle appeal and you must also find out how you can approach these people and you should say: “We have formed such and such organization here.” And also in America they are going to form another one. So you can say: “We have branches in America and also in India and branches all over “. You see, we can form everywhere such branches, it’s not difficult in Sydney. And: “he’s the head of that branch, Mr Bria,n who’s come all the way to see us “.
You can even have a formal inauguration by the Prime Minister. [Shri Mataji laughs]
And give her rhubarb to eat. That revenge I must take on her one day. [Shri Mataji laughs]
She gave us rhubarb ice to eat, imagine!Rhubarb ice, can you imagine? Can there be anything worse than that? [Laughter]
Must be some sinister joy out of it. [Laughter] That I can’t understand. So I would suggest that you form a very good organ- all of you are Sahaja Yogis? I hope nobody will give out the secrets, is there anybody who will give out the secrets? Please raise your hand. [Shri Mataji laughs]
So all this has to be worked out very carefully and understanding that we have to do a tremendous work, you see, we have to save so many people and they are also half hearted. Suddenly you find I’ve lost one child here and a one child there. So it’s a tremendous task and to do this task we have to be very cautious, careful and all the methods that are employed, we have to employ. Only thing you do not do the samara [battle; conflict] and don’t kill anybody. That’s all you don’t do. That you leave it to me.
You need not tell lies but you need not tell everything. Everything need not be told to everyone. That’s not necessary. They do not have right to know everything about us. That’s alright.
So this kind of a thing we should form. Now you all should have degrees those who are there. So put down your MADS and PIGS there. FROGS and everything. [Shri Mataji laughs]
They are enamored by this you see. You can wear a tie pin if you want, find out all the methods you see, and go to a special hair dresser. Some people can even wear a wig I don’t mind. [Shri Mataji laughs]
And take out your rings where you have your Mother’s humble photograph. You better take out all such rings and things, inside you can wear something, but not outside. Or if your ring you are wearing by chance you just turn it around, you see be careful not to show the photographs otherwise they’ll be shocked, you see. It’s all camouflage, but what to do with these stupid fools here? We have tried everything you see. Beaten them with shoes, I mean we’ve done everything that was possible under the Sahaja Yoga regime, but they don’t want to see the point. So best thing is that a go straightforward march, is over and go in a backdoor thing.
You try with that archbishop of Canterbury. I saw the bishop of London, the bishop, the main bishop of London, was sitting just next to me. He never talked of God, nothing, just talking about gold prices, this thing that thing, but he drank the most of the liquor and everything that was there, wines the most of all, poor thing may not be getting so much you see in the church. And the biggest, this thing, what you call that ?
Sahaja Yogi: Cigar
Shri Mataji: Cigar. He used the biggest cigar and pocketed 2 or 3 of them. It’s absolute truth I’m telling you. And he was wearing the scarlet, you see, that’s the colour suggested already in this , the book of revelation, the scarlet, the scarlet colour. See how they are wearing scarlet!
Absolutely frivolous people. And they are misguiding all these people. So we have to also change our dresses and get them into the fold. We’ll find some people in there. Now on these lines you start. Then you have a meeting with all these people here. Get the name of all the newspapers, this thing, that thing. And approach them and then tell them that we have got first class people who have come to us is Sahaja Yoga company. They may be thugs, whatever it is. But this is what we found it in Sydney they did and this is what is the other papers have done it in Geneva, this thing that thing, so why not here? They can’t say no to you. Because you are going to give them business. Later on. I don’t know what sort.
Is there any other suggestion?
Sahaja Yogini: Mother, should we approach international bodies like the United Nations?
Shri Mataji: What is it?
Sahaja Yogini: Should we approach international bodies like the United Nations?
Shri Mataji: Do anything, you are that. Makes no difference.
Sahaja Yogini: Or in America congressmen?
Shri Mataji: No, no congress will be American. Make it United Nations. Better. Whatever you claim, you are that. You are higher than all these United Nations or anything put together. Whatever you say is not boasting at all. Is it? That’s right. Whatever I say it never amounts to boasting, except that you get lots of vibrations. So it doesn’t matter whatever you say. Call your UN body, you will call it?
Sahaja Yogini: Oh, I meant Mother should we approach them? Should we write to them, talk to them?
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes why not?
Sahaja Yogini: See if they’ll sponsor…
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. Tell them that we are working like United Nations only. You’ll immediately become top people you know, you don’t know? I’ve known that trick. What do they have? All idiots. I’ve seen so many idiots working as great people. Ambassadors, big big people, they are just idiots. They have no brains, nothing. I’ve seen, I go to their house, I don’t know how they develop this kind of idiocity. But the other day we went to an ambassador’s place and he started telling me something. “What language he is speaking? I don’t know.” Then CP came, he was also watching him. So he asked me in Indian language: “Do you understand anything what he is saying? ” I said: “Not. Me, I thought it’s something wrong with me”. He said: “No, God knows.”
I said: “Then why are you laughing then sometimes? He said: “I don’t know. I hope I’m laughing at the right time”. [Laughter]
And he was on and on for half an hour, he was telling us something, and his laughter was neither crying, nor laughing sort of an expression you know. You don’t know what he was going to say. So, then another idiot we saw. Idiots are still idiots. They give lectures like idiots, they don’t know what they are talking. They are big people and when they give lectures you are so embarrassed you don’t know where to look. There’s no sense, there’s no dignity, there’s no understanding, nothing. I mean you will find only one or two persons in an organization sensible, the rest are all idiots. Top, top rank people. It’s impossible to understand how they managed it. I mean these are the days of idiots I tell you. These are the days of idiots. If you are an idiot, then you are at a high position, that must be the thing. Because everybody is afraid of intelligent people you see. So I don’t think no Prime minister likes, no president likes an intelligent man to be there, because he might be ousted you see. So they want to have mediocres, but actually in that competition they pick up only the idiots. And that’s how you find all this problem is there. You don’t know how to talk to them. You don’t know what to say. Within five minutes you’ll be amazed, you’ll be shocked, what’s this? That they are holding such a big position you have to remember all the time. Otherwise maybe your driver is better than them. Perhaps they drink too much, all these parties, they are affected by drinks. Or maybe some of them are supposed to be big educated at Cambridge, Oxford, I don’t know what what. All sorts of people, big big positions.
I mean Sahaja Yogis are also from there, they don’t seem so idiotic as these people are. Like from John Hopkins Institute and all that. See I told Gregoire about somebody whom I met from the same institute, I said: “He’s an idiot. How did you get him there?” I can’t understand. So he said: “There are lots of idiots there, Mother”. Just imagine.
I think this must be the reason, that all the heads of the countries must be frightened of intelligent people so they must be selecting only people who are a little idiotic. And then they can find them on the wrong foot you see and then they can always dissolve them with some weaknesses something, it must be that. This must be the reason. Otherwise how can you have such a set of idiots all around?
So this is how we have to manage and I think if you can really form this organization properly and save these people from the disaster into which they are, that is really the work that one has to do. Very carefully, with understanding. All of you should give them some ideas. Even locally you see, if you go to a smaller place, they’ll be so excited that: “Oh God such a big organization has come to us”. You see, and that’s how you can impress them you see. You can use my car if you like or we can buy a second hand Mercedes or we can even buy a second hand rolls Royce or we can get it on a hire. Yes, just to impress them, you can, if you want I can.
We should do all these tricks you know. And how you should talk and everything, you’d better study some people how they talk, how they stop and how long they talk, how they behave, how they impress you. You can give some tips after all.
Sahaja yogi: Mother aren’t we falling into a trap, are we not falling into the trap with the false gurus, you know a rolls Royce indicates that money is being made…
Shri Mataji: Not rolls Royce. Let’s have something different Mercedes? But you shouldn’t take, let’s say, a jeep there, isn’t it? Something like that. We have to have a sensible car. It may not be a Rolls Royce, it’s too much for a journalist I think. In that you do judge yourself. Something in between. Otherwise they’ll think some false guru must have given you as a present.
Sahaja Yogi: It was Nara. Nara came to buy those.[unsure]
Shri Mataji: Hum, he does that.
Sahaja Yogi: [Unsure]
Shri Mataji: I see. So have something in between. Which car you think is best? Which is journalistic?
Sahaja Yogis: A jaguar. Like Mr CPs car. Someone can dress up as a chauffeur, Mother.
Shri Mataji: That looks nice. I don’t like that car very much, I don’t like it, it’s like horse seat. Or I feel, now I don’t know, it’s my impression.
with two camels back inside. But see whatever you like. Sir CP knows all these things so he must have got the correct things to impress. Jaguar. But that’s a very expensive car.
Sahaja yogi: Mother should we not like executives drive a Ford Granada.
Shri Mataji: So don’t use cheap cars, what I’m saying. Don’t use if not Rolls Royce, that we don’t have, none of us have, even a second hand and fourth hand we don’t have, but don’t use any car that would look cheapish type you see. Something good for a journalist association, something like that. But you should be careful about that. Car is important. Suit is important. Then your gestures and behaviors you see, how smartly you pack things and how you get up and how you knock things and also briefcases you see. Very important. And umbrellas that you carry. 30.02 Be careful. So let’s have our training centre for that. I’m not so good. You can get somebody to train you up.
Sahaja yogi: Like James Bond, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Who?
Sahaja yogi: Like James Bond, Mother. The spy. Famous spy.
Shri Mataji: What did he do?
Sahaja yogi: inaudible.
Shri Mataji: James who Bond?
Sahaja yogi: Yes Mother. It’s fiction Mother.
Shri Mataji: James Bond.
Sahaja yogi: Double agent. A secret name.
Shri Mataji: What is it? Double?
Shri Mataji: No no but you should not sound queer, you know, you should sound very British. I mean say like that James Bond carrying three women around, you won’t be successful. You have to be very British, walk with a… See I think ….can teach us that. Paul. Gavin. Who else? Study it, you see, it’s interesting to study. The manners, mannerism, little bit to study how to impress, you see. Ask your brother how he does it.
Sahaja yogi: I think it’s just a pose you know, it’s just a pose really. You know you just learn the way to talk. It’s very easy.
Shri Mataji: But you see Canadian people are different, English are different. Canadian people can be impressed by a hippy look, but not English, they can never be. Best is when they go to Uzbekistan, 40 degrees is the temperature, all their 3 pieces becoming 2 half pieces. Then they get boiled. But it’s true to impress people here. You know these are norms with which they live. They can’t understand Sahaja Yoga. But what to do? That’s the media, that’s the one we have to use (inaudible) is good media. We have to know this media. I have taken half of their bhoots by eating this channa. Now, you tell me, what is to be done. On a gross level.
Sahaja Yogi: The first article about you in Australia was in a newspaper called Sydney Shout, which the back section of that was advertisements for massage parlours and…
Shri Mataji: I have to go everywhere.
Sahaja Yogi: …a gross level of newspaper reporting. However that article and the advertisement which was placed not by us, was placed in the magazine brought a number of people to the meeting.
Shri Mataji: So let’s use that also, doesn’t matter I have to be everywhere, massage parlour, anywhere. What can you do, you will land up into a place like this, where there’s not an inch of holy land, and you want to create a holy land out of it. Then what do you do? You have to put your feet in the mire, isn’t it?
Sahaja Yogi: We worried a lot about that.
Shri Mataji: No, no, nothing to worry. You see your Mother is pure. It makes no difference wherever she goes. Doesn’t matter. I have given all freedom to you. You do what you like. Publish me anywhere you feel like. Like this girl that (Suarno), somebody read about it and told CP that it was not dignified compared to Mrs Shrivastava’s dignity, it was not dignified. She is a very dignified and a serene lady. Because in the office I’m extremely dignified. Not with my children maybe I can be very simple. So they thought that how could it be? And this lady has really taken advantage of Her, sort of thing you know. They were rather upset about it. So I said alright doesn’t matter. It’s alright, whatever way she has seen Me she must have written. I was thinking she should do another article again.
Sahaja Yogi: In actual fact Mother, Sue said they have the biggest mail…
Shri Mataji: Biggest what?
Sahaja Yogi: The biggest response from readers writing into the paper.
Shri Mataji: About me.
Sahaja Yogi: The biggest response they’ve ever had.
Shri Mataji: Just imagine. Despite that. I mean though, I mean she made it a little…I wouldn’t say it was frivolous but it was a little flippant. Flippant is the word. It was flippant you see. It didn’t go into details at all or anything. And she had the biggest response. Just imagine. And what did she do about it?
Sahaja Yogi: She sent some of the letters on. She sent some letters to us.
Shri Mataji: I see. So she may like to do it again in a proper way. This is one side. Another side is that, you must have seen an article in a magazine, which you were telling me, Indian magazine.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Which impressed you very much. (Kolhi.) Did you see that one?
Sahaja Yogi: No, I didn’t.
Shri Mataji: Do you have here Gavin?
Gavin: I think some people have copies here, Mother. I’ve given my one away but Mr (Kolhi) wrote to me and said that if we send him £47 pounds he’s going to send us 250 copies.
Shri Mataji: Alright, so better send it and get it immediately, alright? Now, anther thing is his suggestion has come, (yes, May God Bless you)…
Sahaja yogi: I have to go and have lunch with my mother.
Shri Mataji: Alright, go and have lunch. Now with Mr (Kolhi), he wanted to publish a book. He said so. It will cost 15 to 20 thousand rupees. It’s not difficult to get. In which he wants to write about the experiences of all the people from my childhood and this and that. Partly have no meaning. But my idea was that you Sahaja Yogis should compile together the experiences. Say of different…say Bombay experiences, Bombay people should do it, Delhi people should do it, Sydney people should do it, the people in England should do it and they should write about each and every person, you see? Those who have to write. So, those who have to write something about Me should send it, say not from Bombay, those who are in Bombay should write to somebody in Bombay. Those who are in Delhi should write to somebody in Delhi, who will compile it, put it together and put it in a proper way. Some sort of a…you write to Bombay people to find out somebody who is of journalistic nature. And here also these must be sent to say Gavin or someone. And the same committee that we have you see, should deal with this side. To find out, what you think is proper, what is to be given and all the fantastic things that you have felt, even of sort…they are saying about the petrol business you see. It’s alright, write down everything and all these experiences can be compiled. And we can put the name as Miracles of our Age, or something like that. And then he can put it the way he likes. We should say we will supply you all the material from here or then he can edit it. And also we can get it published. If he wants to publish it, let him publish it, whichever way he wants to do it, it’s alright. We can get it very nicely done for him. But he must publish the book. And the book must be in English, not Indian English, that’s the main point. But also we should not use very difficult English you see, because it should be internationally understood. Not very big sentences, complicated and also using idioms from English literature and things, no one goes into that. Now people are not literature students. Most of the people who write are literature students and they use all the idioms from the literature. Now those who are not literature students, how are they to understand this? They try to show off you see, that they have read this book and that book. Best thing is to put directly not using any quotations from any literary books. You can use it from Bible and things if you want, but that is not necessary for giving experiences. But just you can say that my hands started speaking to me, you can say Christ had said at this time like that. And that book can be done very well and could be sold all over the world. We can send also introduction also, very introduction to the subject. So all the Sahaja Yogis should sit down and write all the good things. Not like this that half hearted and half baked things you should not have, like I’m alright but still I have…with ‘buts’ and ‘ifs’ you should not write. If you have any buts of ifs you keep it to yourself. So the half baked people should not write anything. Vincent you have missed a very nice point.
Vincent: Sorry to hear I’ve missed it Mother. Sorry to hear I’ve missed it.
Shri Mataji: We could like to see what happened from there, so that you can see that it’s a way we are forming a new organization. Called Golden Age International. For journalistic mischief. But you shouldn’t also laugh you know when you are teasing them, you should be very serious. Otherwise you’ll be called as giggly people. Giggly guru he’s called you know? Just imagine, they knew that he used to giggle. Also in this book you can write about people who had a negative approach, like the letter to Archbishop of Canterbury. Expose them. Expose all of them. Like (United church), expose them. That’s the time we can expose them now. The responses, introduction first and the responses at the end. First give the responses of the gurus who are realized souls, how they have acted, they have done this. (Mahishyogis) is that first you can write that there is nothing like a devil, nothing, no (?), everything is fine. And as soon as he heard the name of Mataji Nirmala Devi he said she is the devil. Otherwise devil did not exist for him.
Sahaja yogi: Mother, should we reveal the actual true meanings of the so called Sanskrit mantras?
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. Why not? We should say I went to this fellow and this happened, that happened. This book should expose.
Sahaja yogi: Do you remember 3 years ago in () you actually revealed what his mantra meant in English, some of the names of demons, some were silly names, should we reveal those as well, do you think?
Shri Mataji: I mean you can say that we had many people, one after another, we had a series of things you see with us. I think Gavin has got some of these things that this fellow from Denmark had sent. Have you got?
Gavin: I think maybe Linda may have them all. They went to Peter, they may be out of circulation.
Shri Mataji: Why did Linda burn that also?
Gavin: I don’t know if she burnt them Mother, but they may be out of circulation.
Shri Mataji: Accha, let us find out. So you can mention that though there were so many indications you see from people, we could not see. Even this fellow said this is the mantra’s meaning. We could not see, somehow or other our mind was like that. So to prove that there was a kind of possession or a kind of a curtain on our head, that we couldn’t see things. Though these were pointed out you see. Nobody bothered, because one gentleman who has flouted him a long time back from America, though he didn’t understand the subtler side of it, but he gave the gross side, which was really remarkable, that people could get over it. How he made money, how he had to embezzle money for him and how many millions and millions of dollars they had to take away. Everything he had given that data with that. He himself, and he also said that if I have mentioned anything wrong let them prosecute me. But nothing happened. And about women, how he had relationships with women and all that, he mentioned it. I don’t know if those papers are there or not. The name of the fellow…I’ve forgotten…but so many things were like that, which were as he says given to Peter, I think Peter kept them. But if you can find, whatever it is, that there were warnings coming all through you see. Anybody who is intelligent can see this you see. And can warn. But nobody listened to it. I mean you all thought that you were doing for a great cause of you see the world government, imagine. You see, because he made the whole show in such a way. The show was such that you had to believe it. Now you have been to that 14 year one, isn’t it?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Accha. Now this one also, he’s got 15 thousand disciples even now, even now in Spain. And he calls himself the perfect guru. One of his disciples came and told me he doesn’t know even how to say perfect, he said perpect, perpect guru I am perpect guru. He was repeating that word again and again. And this fellow knew English and he had to translate it. And the Queen of Spain complained to the ambassador of Spain, Indian ambassador of Spain that it’s a shameful thing how you can send such a man to our country. He has just finished our young generation, the whole race is lost. Nobody listens you know, that’s the trouble. He’s a perfect guru. He’s perfectly made them mad. He turned their agnyas, they’re finished. So the whole book would be, where are the seekers? Where are they lost, what has happened to them? Everything can be covered in this in a very good way. The tradgedies and the…
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, Mother? On TM (transcendental meditation), some Christians published a book called ‘TM a cosmic confidence trip’ and Kingsley read it and did a review because he used to be a Christian and I think that’s probably going in the next, or next of one issue of Nirmala Yoga, because we sent it. And it’s…I also got some of the words, the mantras translated I asked Gavin, so that’s going in as well.
Shri Mataji: What’s the name of the book?
Sahaja Yogi: TM a cosmic confidence trip. It’s by one of these Christian book sellers. It’s quite good, very full of, it’s got lots of insights about the way he is ().
Shri Mataji: And who is the writer?
Sahaja Yogi: I can‘t remember offhand Mother, but I’ve got the details at home.
Shri Mataji: So (). Anybody who finds anything like that in writing please get it. In his tapes you see also you can find out. Like we can say that, they said about theta waves and theta waves you only get from epileptic patients. Very carefully without involving people who are dangerous to us, but gurus you can handle. Gurus are all right. There’s no harm, because you can use this fellow’s name and all that. But not people like say, we can say the, like say some Prime Minister is involved with TM say for example. We need not bring his name there, because they won’t like it. And they’ll try to trouble us you see, such people so be careful on those. The President before this, was…what was he? He was a..that Baptist church, somebody from the Baptist church was president of America?
Sahaja yogis: Carter.
Shri Mataji: Carter. And also these churches you see, you can point out that I have been, one person can say, like you can talk about these…what seventh day…the Pentecostals…No I’m asking you. The Pentecostals.
Sahaja yogi: There’s an international organization called Family Action Information and Rescue, already formed and it’s being run by an MP called Paul Rose and he got mixed up with some gurus and he’s formed this organization and if you’ve been affected then…
Shri Mataji: Then what do they do?
Sahaja yogi: If anyone’s been affected then they get the people out.
Shri Mataji: You can ask them, you can go and ask what do they have to say about this, about that…you can interview them. Also you can use that information. It makes no difference. Use that also.
Sahaja yogi: It’s very good Mother, they have lots of information, they started specifically because of an outfit that’s a bit out of fashion now called Children of God, and that’s very much like the Moonies, in that they used to take teenager, young people and keep them totally out of contact with the outside world and keep them cut off from their parents and all this sort of thing, starvation diets and sugar buzzing, all these techniques they used to use. So it was formed to help the parents who had lost their teenage and young adult children, to get them back and deprogram them, and get the brainwashing out of them, and they’ve got lots of useful information.
Shri Mataji: Why not go and see them also? See as an organization you can go and see them.
Sahaja Yogi: Paul Rose is very obsessive Mother, he’s very skeptical about cults Mother, very skeptical.
Shri Mataji: You see but they can be quite confused I tell you. Like this fellow I went to see, John will tell you, I told him all I’m against these so called religions, but ultimately he told John that we cannot have her interview at length, because people don’t like to hear about religions. Can you imagine? Is he here, John?
Sahaja Yogi: No Mother, but he left some notes, I’ll read them out if you like.
Shri Mataji: Alright, what has he to say?
Sahaja yogi: He just said he had that interview with London Broadcasting company with Lawrence Spicer and he interviewed Mother. So many Sahaja Yogis wrote letters to Mr Spicer out of interest from his previous interview. So, we can easily build up on what we’ve already done, on this kind of thing. If a lot of Sahaja Yogis show interest, not as Sahaja Yogis but just as people.
Shri Mataji: But not only Sahaja Yogis, but you should also put non sahaja yogis. See they didn’t write at Sahaja Yogis all of them.
Sahaja Yogi: No, they didn’t say they were Sahaja Yogis.
Shri Mataji: We should not say Sahaja Yogis wrote we should say there was a big interest. Because he asked him that he should come and deal with the…it’s between us, in the secret.
Shri Mataji: Now you can also write about (Shuarno, journalist), that she had a lot of response all right. We can mention her. All right, what else?
Sahaja yogi: The 15 minute interview by Lawrence Spicer went out 2 Sundays ago at 4am on the radio. I didn’t even know there were any radio programs at that hour.
Shri Mataji: 4 am?
Sahaja yogi: While we were in Cheltenham Mother. Which is a bit ridiculous.
Shri Mataji: 4 am?!
Sahaja Yogi: 4 am. Which is really a bit…
Sahaja yogini: We had one man come Mother, from hearing that, he heard the 4 am…
Shri Mataji: She got up at 4 am? They must have thought you see Sahaja Yogis are supposed to get up at 4 am.
Sahaja yogi: I bet he wasn’t up at 4 am. Also Lawrence Spicer recorded an interview between John Plummer and a west Indian faith healing Christian called Cleave Grant. This interview will be broadcast in September and was mainly concerned with our attitude towards Jesus and the ten commandments. Cleave Grant was not negative, in fact he said in the interview that he thought Sahaja Yoga sounded good, because we follow and believe in Christ and obey the commandments. So because his vibrations were tricky, it seemed best to be diplomatic and not confront his ego. The results of this diplomacy may be to make Sahaja Yoga sound rather Christian.
Shri Mataji: Better call it Christian, Hindu, Muslim, doesn’t matter.
Sahaja Yogi: That’s what he did. And the other thing we wrote a letter to U.S. Naipal, who wrote various articles, books, one article on Rastafarianism in the Observer. We said that we were certain we had found the truth and want a professional, objective, discerning journalist to investigate our claims and if satisfied with our authenticity. We wrote an article, we have yet to hear a reply.
Shri Mataji: Now, he won’t work out with you. But with this organization he will.
Sahaja yogi: And John just suggested a few things as well related to his experience. To write personal letters to people of importance, though it would be better as an organization.
Shri Mataji: As an organization, to all important people better write important letters.
Sahaja yogi: We have our own letter head Mother.
Shri Mataji: You have to have all that.
Sahaja yogi: Make our own TV video film. We could have quite fun doing that, TV video film to show TV producers.
Shri Mataji: Are this.. Not like this. They won’t even allow me 5 minutes there, how will they allow a film?
Sahaja Yogi: No he didn’t necessarily mean just of you Mother, like we watch your lectures, but perhaps some Sahaja Yogis doing the same kind of thing as you suggested.
Shri Mataji: No, but let it be done by this organization.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, like that book…
Shri Mataji: But you see that film can be done by this organization and they can show the good points. Let them do it. You have to contact. But not just now, you should not sound that you are Sahaja Yogis.
Sahaja Yogi: It says: Make a press kit.
Shri Mataji: You can take films of other gurus also, under the circumstances you can’t go and see say Hare Ramas. Alright, under this, and you ask them questions. I’ll give you the proper things you have to ask them.
Sahaja Yogi: Can we take the video along to their meetings? Take the video to their meetings and ask them questions?
Shri Mataji: Yes, ask them questions. First of all you have to be very nicely versed in Gita. Then with other gurus also you should be prepared. As this organization you can meet them. Take their video and give this to these people, that these are what we are going to supply you.
Sahaja Yogi: Including you Mother? Could we include you? We included some cuts of you…
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no! I’m nowhere. You are just talking in a very neutral way to people from Hare Ram Hare Krishna. Alright?
Sahaja Yogi: We want to hear what they say?
Shri Mataji: And I’ll tell you the loopholes and then you ask the questions on them. Like TM people. But the people who have done TM should not go. The other people who look very innocent should go. Because if you go with TM ideas they will know that you are from TM and you are the revolted ones so you better keep out. All this we’ll think of many such things now. You see I’ve put you on the other line. What else now? Come along.
Sahaja Yogi: Well he said that we should make a press kit of articles, photos, case histories, tapes, much as you were saying Mother and take it to newspapers, in fact under the organization…
Shri Mataji: No, this book should come out. It would be a good idea.
Sahaja Yogi: Also he intended to get in contact with Malcolm Muggerigde and talk to him as just 2 interested people.
Shri Mataji: Who is she?
Sahaja Yogi: He’s a commentator and literary critic, a Christian, he’s quite well known. He’s a Roman Catholic.
Shri Mataji: He’s what now?
Sahaja Yogi: He’s turned into a Roman Catholic, but he’s always commenting on religions and philosophy.
Sahaja yogi: He’s quite a seeker too.
Shri Mataji: Beat him with shoes first of all, give him our treatment, Sahaja Yoga treatment, then we’ll see how far he goes.
Sahaja Yogi: Well we could write to him as members of this interested group…
Shri Mataji: With this organization you see because then you are neutral. You can ask him that this is Roman Catholic has done this and that, you see I’ll give you everybody’s loopholes. So let us prepare some courses on this. Should we? Alright.
Sahaja Yogi: And lastly he asked the Archbishop of Canterbury, although he was quite sort of negative himself, he did get us in contact with his advisor to Indian affairs.
Shri Mataji: So what did the advisor do?
Sahaja Yogi: Well he said he wants to see us and talk to us. Whose friend he said has written the translation of something I can’t remember what it was Mother, some Indian scripture. And also a bishop in Hayverteaf is also interested in talking to us in Sussex. So again from this organization is sounds a lot better.
Shri Mataji: Sahaja Yoga has advanced Christianity, advanced Judaism, advanced everything. The point where everything meets that’s what Sahaja Yoga is. But you must know where they have gone wrong otherwise they’ll never advance. So, that’s all.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes and also we put deprogram people who’ve dealt with all those..
Shri Mataji: How do you do that?
Sahaja Yogi: You say that if anyone’s messed up with a guru then you have an organization, like they have in America, called deprogrammers. So if anyone’s messed up with a guru then if they contact the police or social workers they put you onto you then you talk to the person whose affected and then you make him better with his parents, but it takes too long.
Shri Mataji: You see you must let this organization also do this work. The same organization.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother if we put outside instead on Centre for Sahaja Yoga, perhaps if we had a notice that said Centre for International Comparative religions or something.
Shri Mataji: Whatever you like.
Sahaja Yogi: That might also put people off a bit. We could easily invite people here.
Shri Mataji: You see in this world whatever you say it always has two sides, it’s a personal jury you see everything has 2 sides, like if you say this is a place for people to understand religions and their mistakes or whatever it is, all the religious people will be standing against you.
Brian: Mother the aim would be with it to , the people who were the members of Golden Age International they would indicate to the people they were in contact with, that they were employed by Sahaja Yoga for that purpose.
Shri Mataji: That’s what I think, you should keep it out. Connection should not be there. But what you can do is to get some people you see, if they come to you, to your organization you should say that some people have told us that Sahaja Yoga has helped. You can try. But we are not recommending, but if you want you can try. Like that.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother if people will ask what are the credentials of the Golden Age International and if we can’t say that we’re Sahaja Yogis what are we to say to the people are our credentials?
Shri Mataji: No but credentials are that we are FROGS and PIGS and all that are our real credentials.
Sahaja Yogi: From all over the world. We just got together as a group.
Shri Mataji: You see you are not to say that it is an organization of Sahaja Yogis at all. Even they won’t ask you that you are Sahaja Yogis, they’ll never dream of it. You see that’s why we have had no dress, no badging, nothing. We are so different. That’s why I have never allowed. Many people used to say let us wear kurta pajama, I said nothing to it. Even the mark. You are not to have anything. that’s only secretly. Till we reach a certain stage you see. So you don’t have to say you are Sahaja Yogis, credentials is that now this is Doctor David Spiro alright? Doctor David Spiro, then barrister, then this, that and also you can add up PIGS and all these things to it. Doesn’t matter. This is what they respect not Sahaja Yogis. They think Sahaja Yogis means they must be some criminals you see. They cannot think that Sahaja Yogis are some good people, they cannot think of such people who can be good, really they can’t think of it.
Sahaja Yogi: It is true though Mother, when we talk to people with full confidence in ourselves about this kind of thing to probe where their seeking lies, if they ask, they always never fail to be impressed by the depth of knowledge that Sahaja Yogis have got and this itself stands out. They don’t think to ask where you got the credentials from, because if you’re subtle like you say Mother…
Shri Mataji: You see when a Sahaja Yogi speaks, you know even a little girl, like Annupama, when she speaks people are amazed how does she do all this. Every sentence that you speak has that sparkle if you see. They won’t know. You need not say. If there is a beautiful rose somewhere hidden you know because it smells. You know the fragrance is there. They will know it is something great. You need not say you are Sahaja Yogis, by saying that we have achieved nothing with these horrible medias so let us go in another way. You see if you talk of the flower nothing works out, so talk of the fragrance. By flower they are not impressed so better let them have your fragrance. This is another one who can impress quite a lot.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, can we have part of the organization something research into nuclear aspect, how to…
Shri Mataji: You see even you are international this thing, you can go into everything, no problem. But you see peace cannot come from without, peace has to come from within you see. If you don’t have nuclear weapons you’ll have some other weapons. Now Americans are, look at them, they are selling their weapons to all other countries at a very cheap rate you see. What is this? This is even worse than having atomic bomb, because atomic bomb for once for all finishes everyone you see. But this is very bad you see to make everybody fight. So they have ways and methods. See you can’t just say. It’s a temperament, it’s an attitude, it’s an inner subtle being which is not at peace you see. They are violent because they have no peace within. Actually they enjoy this. They enjoy all this.
Sahaja Yogi: How to deal with people then? Through our connections with them, they come to see Sahaja Yoga and they see us as the speakers. If they’ve seen us as a representative of Golden Age International and then they see us on the podium doing Sahaja Yoga, how would you deal with that situation?
Shri Mataji: You should get people from outside. You see for example you can go to Toronto and let the Toronto people handle New York. It’s better. For example Brian can say I’ve come from Sydney all the way and you’ve done so much there in Sydney, so much of research, we have found out this and all that. Who is going to find out about it? Alright? So in New York you work for Sahaja Yoga, in Toronto you work for this.
Sahaja Yogi: What are we to do if we get legitimate clients?
Shri Mataji: What did he say?
Brian: Mike was asking what are we to do if we get legitimate clients?
Shri Mataji: Legitimate clients?
Brian: Clients who are willing to pay money for the work that we would be doing.
Shri Mataji: You see you have only one client, that is Sahaja Yoga and they don’t pay any money. Nobody will be our client as such. How can they be? Except for these gurus, because we’ll talk against them, they’ll never pay us anything. I don’t think this question will arise.
Mike: No I mean like regular business clients.
Shri Mataji: Business clients. Who?
Mike: Not necessarily involved in seeking.
Shri Mataji: So in this relationship you are…you see what will happen, now we have, let’s see. We will either go to these gurus alright, so they come because we say we are giving alternative this thing. But when you will go and see them alright we’ll give you a publicity, this thing, that thing, but we’ll tell the truth, you see. You should tell them that we are here but we’ll tell the truth because that’s what we have written in our this thing and we’ll try to see the truth here. So they would like to have you there because you will have a sort of a position to tell the truth you see. So you can go there as any journalist goes. And he can say whatever he likes, they cannot stop , so you go and see the flaws of that thing and then you can write about them and tell about them in the newspapers. This is what we have seen. So they won’t pay you. I mean if they pay of course I don’t think they’ll pay for telling all these things but even if they pay you can tell them that ours is voluntary organization and we are doing this voluntary work and like that. Or you can take the money, what’s wrong? And throw it in the Thames.
Brian: If somebody comes along and wants a publicity campaign about soap.
Shri Mataji: Soap? What is soap?
Brian: A public relations firm, as well as selling something like Sahaja Yoga could also sell soap or sugar or…
Sahaja Yogi: Or lemons…
Shri Mataji: We won’t have any magazine or anything.
Brian: But in the same way that the members of the organization could go to the media trying to interest them in publishing material about Sahaja Yoga, that facility could also be used for other money making concerns like a soap making firm could come to the Golden Age International to employ that organization to give cheap soap a quality image or… you see there is a possibility of a legitimate business, an honest business around the dishonest. the point that Michael is raising. In other words it could be the possibility of some members of the organization becoming totally involved and financially involved.
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no.
Sahaja Yogi: For alternative lifestyle sort of thing…
Shri Mataji: You see what I am saying, these things again take you to the same. It’s a dangerous game. See you can play out certain things, like, something like we can say that…we can have a…I don’t know how it can work out but say we can get some Sahaja Yogis to say that this special type of sugar is vibrated sugar you see. It has done you good. So you can refer to some organization saying that this sugar is available from this thing. Or say genuine things like genuine food or something I mean more on the genuineness if you can work out say soaps now are made here of horrible chemicals, if you can get something genuine you see. On that it could be done later on. Whichever is genuine thing but we have to test it and see for ourselves. Things like that we can work out if you go to there. But should be genuine stuff which is helpful otherwise you see we cannot go on for anything cheap type thing. Like for liver patients we can say we have a medicine or something alright? How are you? Alright?
Sahaja Yogi: Mother I used to be an illustrator, I’ve worked within the New York Times and Psychology Today and Selfworth?? And I’ve been wanting to use my artwork in some way. I know it has a potential to be beautiful if I was working for a good cause such as Sahaja Yoga, not just my own feelings. Is there any way that I could help? That I could…
Shri Mataji: We’ll make full use of you, I’m going to use all of you for this. I’m already using you alright? We have to find out all the talents in this kind of work you see. But now for example David Spiro is too honest a fellow I must say. He may give in your secrets. I hope David you have changed a little bit, it’s too straightforward, you cannot be with then you see. You have to play a drama. You have to be an artist to play that drama you see. I’m myself hopelessly bad, so I’m out of it you see. I just can’t do it, I’ll just laugh you know so don’t take me. But you have to be careful. If you give in the secret then we are out you see. Take few, but those who can keep the secret alright. At least when you are representing it outside you have to be very careful. Sort of you see all the Sahaja Yogis know each other. Immediately they’ll say agnya, all of them sitting there you see and they start giving the bandhan as a habit you see and immediately they’ll find out all these people, charmers here. Anybody like that. And a little, you have to use little cunningness I should say with these horrible cunning people you know you have to be very careful. If you start giving out your secrets by any method, I would say if…Phil is another very over honest fellow you see. So you shouldn’t try to be over honest you see. If you are over honest they’ll find you out in no time they will know, oh this is the one. You have to little bit do some practice and drama. Have you ever taken part in a play?
Phil: I was Julius Cesar, I read the part.
Shri Mataji: You were doing what?
Sahaja Yogi: He played the part of Julius Cesar Mother so he didn’t have to quibble very much.
Shri Mataji: What about you? David, did you?
David: Not since I was at primary school Mother.
Shri Mataji: Now better practice little drama, you see. That’s a good idea. All those who suffer from over honesty you see because conscience and all that. We are beyond all that. We have to save this world, it’s a tremendous task. We can’t go on playing with all these few bits of things that we have. We have to have the major thing now. We have to do something about it. Look at the eyes. she wouldn’t come to you. Where is Olympia gone?
Sahaja Yogi: She’s playing with the children outside Mother.
Shri Mataji: Where is she?
Sahaja Yogi: She’s playing outside.
Shri Mataji: I see. Take her? Come and try? She doesn’t know you. Who are you? No? Alright? You feel nice then alright you be with me. Hmmm good. But you’ve wet yourself, do you know that? Hello. What’s it? She has got her hair like her mother. Always comb the hair of the children backwards you see, so they grow more. Oh, you don’t like it? Alright, alright, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Take her. Alright sorry, sorry, sorry. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. What happened just turned the hair. that means there must be something wrong. That means something on the Sahasrara she has a problem when I touched her Sahasrara she started crying. You work it out. Do you use a comb or a brush for her? That’s why, you must use a brush and give it to me for vibrations. Something must be on her Sahasrara is the problem now. That’s how you discover. you must use brush for children, very important it is.
Brian: Mother there’s a popular area of television which is the so called in depth look at some topic. For instance a program perhaps half hour program on health. On such a television program would you be willing for instance to talk on aspects of health in a program which would contain so called medical experts who would in fact attempt to refute the things that you were saying?
Shri Mataji: Later stage we can. Just now you should camouflage. You see if you put me there, all Sahaja Yoga there everything, they’ll be shocked and they’ll find you out. But first you have other people you see, build them up. These other gurus, put them like that, the way you did it in Australia. Later on I can be there, but first you prepare the ground. The I would like to do anything. Any other suggestions?
Sahaja Yogi: Mother would it be advisable do you think if the doctors in our group approached people like the Arthritis Research Foundation?
Shri Mataji: We tried that.
Sahaja Yogi: We’ve seen a quite successful treatment on an arthritis patient.
Shri Mataji: We have tried it. You see what we did was with Doctor Srivardana, he was there on the cancer research. And he wanted to talk about it. He is doing that job and he wanted to tell to other people, nobody was willing to listen to it. They thought he was gone mad. It’s not easy. He was there, he was doing that research. Gavin knows about him. He was doing research in cancer and when he went and told them that this is possible, this is this, they said no, no, no this is all, you are mad, how can that be? Because they cannot believe there is something higher source from where you get all this. You see they all think in their ego behavior that it is all their own achievements. they do not want to believe in it because their existence will be zero. You see they asked me in India that if I make this institute for research they will get a big donation from the government. But I said what is there to be researched here, I mean I have researched everything, I mean I know everything. What is there to be researched in Sahaja Yoga? And what are we going to do with the donation? I mean that time there was no land, nothing. But even there you see they wanted to research it. And the organization is for research if you said there is a solution, then the organization does not exist. You just see how will they do it, psychologically also. They are not really doing it actually to find out something, they are doing it because they have to exist.
Gavin: Mother a lot of programs are made attacking the different gurus and so on but they don’t offer solutions. Would it not be a good idea if we were to make such programs again without offering the solutions, but really opening up the loopholes.
Shri Mataji: How will you make the programs Gavin? We already have programs, now where can you do these programs? That would be on the contrary you go and talk to them as a neutral body, alright. You tell them alright, we would like to study we would like to…this is one of the alternatives we agree, but after all we are journalists, we have to witness the whole thing. Alright you go and see and see their loopholes and put them up as they have done it, they have exposed all the gurus like this in Australia. That’s very simple. 1.24.01.
Gavin: In this way we would sort of break the ground for people to start thinking for themselves and then Sahaja Yoga is there but we don’t present it.
Shri Mataji: No, first you do this, then you come to Sahaja Yoga also. Also criticize it in a way which is not really a criticism. Alright it will work out. What did you criticize Sahaja Yoga for? What did you say?
Sahaja yogini: They don’t take any money.
Brian: They don’t take any money. No it was related to some of the practices like foot soaking and that is was very time consuming, like people gave a lot of time to it.
Shri Mataji: Otherwise what are you going to do time? When you go to the pub is it time absorbing also? You see what I’m saying, that if anybody wants to refute it, it’s very good, we really want, otherwise you are bored stiff you see. So what you can say, say for example if you want to criticize Sahaja Yoga…now let’s see…I get thoughtless.
Sahaja Yogi: You give up all your enjoyments.
Shri Mataji: That you can’t see from the faces. You can say one thing, that there are some people who still are not anywhere near a good person or something like that. You can say like that. But some of them look excellent people, many of them look excellent people. So maybe there is an inner circle, some sort of a doubt you see and everything is not told. Like that you see you can put it. You see something to say there is something secretive about these people a little bit. Everything is not told forst perhaps. It is said that all knowledge will be exposed to you but partly it’s known and everything everyone doesn’t know. That’s what we gathered from some other people who were saying that we are not allowed to certain functions or something like that so you see a class consciousness is there or something. That will help some socialists to raise their ears. Or…
Sahaja Yogi: Mother I heard somebody say something once which we could even turn to good effect for us, it sound like a criticism is that somebody once said that we seem to be a bit privileged, that we don’t take in everybody, the poor, the sick, the weak, the needy, the mad, the stupid. We don’t take all of them, we don’t sort of…
Shri Mataji: Yes none of them were, none of them were there that kind.
Sahaja Yogi: We could turn that to a good use.
Shri Mataji: That there were no alcoholics among them, nobody taking drugs and nobody was smoking, nobody had a matchbox.
Sahaja Yogi: Except for lighting candles. Except for lighting candles.
Shri Mataji: Candles yes. That also may be in here. For lighting the candles none of them had a matchbox. Can put like that.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes it’s a Christian thing, so it doesn’t feel to the Christians think that to be a Christian, to be a good following Christ, we have to take like Mother Teresa, dying and sick people and…
Shri Mataji: But you see when I ask somebody he told me that he came to this place when he was dying. Later on. You see this is the first criticism, then we refute. And somebody can go and say I was just dying when I came here and Mother saved me so I look perfectly alright. You see that is the second stage. Gavin, we should give them some photographs of when you came. Before and after.
Sahaja Yogini: Mother, may I ask how many should present the evening classes? We were originally going to give realization immediately, but I’m wondering from our discussion this morning whether it might not be too much for them? (inaudible)
Shri Mataji: First you must educate them what they should expect. First you have to tell them what they should expect from realization.
Sahaja Yogini: Should we have your photograph there?
Shri Mataji: No, no. You can cover it with a paper or something, with a silk cloth if you cover the vibrations will flow in any case. You need not.
Sahaja Yogini: Can we give realization at any time?
Shri Mataji: Yes, afterwards you should.
Sahaja Yogini: It’s a course for 26 weeks.
Shri Mataji: 26 weeks?
Sahaja Yogi: One class a week Mother on Friday evening.
Sahaja Yogini: For 2 hours.
Shri Mataji: What will you do?
Sahaja Yogini: Oh there’s plenty Mother, there’s plenty.
Sahaja Yogi: We’ve got 24 titles Mother it’s just the various beginnings of discussing Sahaja Yoga.
Shri Mataji: Then 25th you will give them realization.
Sahaja Yogi: On the 26th Mother.
Shri Mataji: But without realization how will you make them understand?
Sahaja Yogini: Well this was what we wandered and this was why our first impulse was to give realization.
Shri Mataji: No, you can say after say half time you can say that let’s try if we can work out on you.
Sahaja Yogini: Shall we also invite them to our public meetings in Brighton?
Shri Mataji: If you have public meetings they are always invited. But you have a public meeting every week?
Sahaja Yogini: Yes, Mother. Every Tuesday.
Shri Mataji: And this course is from people who are coming from public meeting or…
Sahaja Yogini: No, hopefully not, hopefully it will be people who are interested in alternatives to education like comparative religions, astrology, lay lines…
Sahaja Yogi: Mother the idea arose because TM was doing an introductory class at the same night school it occurred to us that if they could get away with it so could we. Moreover we can do better. And it seems we will because a lot of people were very displeased with the TM class they thought it was an absolute rip off. Apparently all they did was…
Shri Mataji: But what you can do is to talk to them that you see this is the thing, this mantra, this Kundalini is here, this thing, that thing. But a mantra, unless and until it is awakened by a realized soul you cannot use. The mantra at this stage has to awaken this deity. Like that you can tell them the prepared, but it is to be awakened and this you know will happen to a person and if it happens. and then if it happens…I mean when we’ll have a public meeting?
Sahaja Yogini: We have the public meeting on Tuesday, every Tuesday.
Shri Mataji: So what do you do then?
Sahaja Yogini: We have a talk or a tape and then we give realization.
Shri Mataji: How do you say these people won’t come to the public meeting? These people won’t come to the public meeting?
Sahaja Yogini: Primarily what will happen with the evening classes is that posters will go round to libraries and all sorts of outlets like that.
Shri Mataji: But how do you stop them coming to the public meeting?
Sahaja Yogini: Well I wasn’t suggesting that we stop them Mother.
Shri Mataji: Then what will you do?
Sahaja Yogini: What I’m thinking is how we justify it, because they would be paying for the evening class, that was the point. We’ve offered our services as lecturers free but the adult education institute will charge people who come on the course for their hall, their lighting, their heating. If we can say to them that the public meetings are more for in depth actual working out and learning how to use..
Shri Mataji: How many people come for public meetings in Brighton?
Sahaja Yogi: About 20 Mother. 20, 25 of us.
Shri Mataji: And how many will be coming for your course?
Sahaja Yogini: We don’t know yet Mother. We don’t know yet.
Sahaja Yogi: About the same number Mother, judging by the TM experience. Possibly more if we make it look very interesting.
Shri Mataji: Now the public meeting of these 20 people is always 20 isn’t it? They don’t increase.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother we get say typically 2, 3, 4 new people a week.
Shri Mataji: So let us not have it as a public meeting then. You advertise every time.
Sahaja Yogi: Well we have the posters around town Mother, which say it’s every week at a particular hotel there’s a public meeting, an introductory meeting.
Shri Mataji: You see I would say…this one you’ll start at the ashram is it?
Sahaja Yogini: No Mother it’s the adult education institute.
Shri Mataji: Alright so it won’t be. So why do you have any public meeting at all? Why I am saying for this 26 weeks, if they have a big response you see. What you can do is to have them in the ashram and need not advertise. Let us see if that works out better. If only 2 or 3 people are coming every week you see and supposing they get about 50 people for this training centre? then best thing would be that they should go for the training centre and you should have your thing in the ashram now you’ve got an ashram. Just like as you have here. I told somebody has to inform. It’s all right we’ll inform, I think John will be coming.
Sahaja Yogini: Would you like us to telephone home Mother.
Shri Mataji: What’s that?
Sahaja Yogini: It’s something Christian cooked.
Shri Mataji: So many things. What’s all this?
Sahaja Yogini: They’re potato balls Mother, rosemary…
Shri Mataji: And what’s this?
Sahaja Yogini: That’s lamb Mother, special sauce.
Shri Mataji: Oh I can’t eat all that. You bring me a little plate alright? I’ll take it in that and eat because this is too much for me. You’ll keep it here, I’ll take out a little in a little plate. I look so big, but I don’t…Alright so this is a good idea. Now what we can do is to have this course done there and just like as you are having here. Because in the public meeting now as you’ll be busy with Geneva and all that, so, isn’t it? You Sahaja Yogis, this 20 or whatever it is, can get some people in the ashram, you can put there Sahaja Yoga centre and it’s a public meeting and let the people come down there. And also I don’t think giving realization so quickly is a good idea. That’s what Christine feels. That Mother if you give them so quickly they get lost also. In my presence it’s alright you can always say was Mother who gave realization so they think it’s something precious. Otherwise you know what happens, that they think Oh you can give realization, you can give, they have no value. You see because the value system is wrong first of all, secondly they have no sense of realization. So better to prepare them for and then give me. You see if you give it to a madman say five pounds, what does it make for him? Nothing. It’s like that.
Sahaja Yogini: Mother quite a lot of us have already decided what talks we would like to study and what talks we would like to give. May we practice them at Nightingale lane? And hopefully our brothers and sisters will come up with questions rightly to be asked.
Shri Mataji: Wednesday.
Sahaja Yogini: Wednesday.
Shri Mataji: When they have this public program there.
Sahaja Yogini: When we have the evening classes we’ll start on November the 5th which is the Friday. And what we were hoping is that during September we could practice the speeches here whatever night is convenient and then we could learn the sort of loopholes that are going to be…
Shri Mataji: Good idea, because you see if you practice with them they will give you ideas isn’t it? I saw that what you gave, good. Very good idea I think you can do that here. Will be good idea. Everybody can give you ideas.
Shri Mataji: She’s taken away the whole food?
Sahaja Yogi: It’s just there, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Oh I see. Otherwise, I thought it’s either the whole or nothing. I sometimes don’t understand the language of Sahaja Yogis. Thank you, but I would like to have a small plate alright? It’s too much you see. If I see too much then I won’t eat so better bring a small plate, that I’ll take something. Thank you. That’s a good idea, you practice it here so that you’ll be corrected you’ll know what is to be said.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother perhaps this Golden Age Organization could have one day seminars in important towns, which we could invite people to tell them about Sahaja Yoga. We could invite distinguished local people.
Shri Mataji: No what we can have is Golden Age one can organize a program inviting people to come from all kinds of things and to prepare papers and to read them and then the Sahaja Yogis should be in the audience and they should ask questions you see, with other people. Here in London I don’t know what they do but they have been organizing yoga seminars and things inviting people even from India. So what we can do for alternative living we can organize one and there we can get Sahaja Yogis to ask them direct questions you see. To these people and also a Sahaja Yogi should give a speech who is not a member of this secret group you see.
Sahaja Yogini: So the aim of Golden Age International is not to promote Sahaja Yoga at all as such, I mean openly to the other people, but just to…
Shri Mataji: Openly not. Openly not at all. Not al all. But it will happen openly also in a way, because when it will come to Sahaja Yoga you see, it’s say a dark night and the people from your family are only serving, so have it like that. You see the dark nights nobody sees who is who and your family people are serving all the food so you have the best. It’s like that. Yes it is, obviously it is not. Or apparently it is not we can say, but really it is. Otherwise what are we interested in? Not only Sahaja Yoga but saving of people. I mean we have tried everything else isn’t it? We have failed. Nobody listens to us. We are nothing.
Sahaja Yogi: It’s not absolutely true Mother, things are tipping over a certain line..
Shri Mataji: We must understand. This is just to be understood. I mean imagine this Kolhi, how far he has gone. I hope you get that book Gavin from somewhere.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother some people get bored you know when we approach them and we talk about religion, about God, most people they get bored. So if we were to try something and then give vibrations
Shri Mataji: But?
Sahaja Yogi: Some people when we approach them and talk about God, they get…
Shri Mataji: As what as Sahaja Yogis?
Sahaja Yogi: No, no this is outside people. If we go and tell them that about religion about God normally they get very bored and they said they have heard it all before, but if we were to talk about vibrations or something else, explore that area…
Shri Mataji: I think even the Sahaja Yogis want to teach Sahaja Yoga and spread Sahaja Yoga must undergo a training. What to talk, how to talk, how to handle, it’s very important. In those 26 lectures that you are going to have here, whenever it is possible I would also like to come and see how it works out. what we should talk. We have one of these subjects, somebody should handle it. How should we talk to people, how should we begin. See let us understand them as they are. We have to approach them the way they are you see. It’s true.
Sahaja Yogi: Is it a good idea to talk more on the vibrations, because they can feel it. and if we were to tell them about the power of the vibrations it comes over (inaudible), that there is a system now that we know about the television, at there is a () network so if we were to tell them more the theories of ()
Shri Mataji: I mean do whichever way you think proper. There’s no objection for that, but you have to understand the whole thing in such a way that it should go into their heads. But on the whole the picture is such, that the people are really in a wretched condition. Try whatever is possible, that’s our work. We are not bothered whether we save them or not, because how far can you go with them? Let them then be there where they are. We can go up to a point isn’t it? Say the same time if I spend in India we can save thousands of human beings, isn’t it? But here you go on pressing them and asking them for this and still their ego is just on their heads standing, what to do? How far can you go? Very insensitive, lethargic and conditioned people. Really shocking.
Brian: The idea Mother, is this right, that Sahaja Yoga approaches seekers but the Golden Age people approach people who can attract
Shri Mataji: No, they approach media. They are for media. They are for media. Everything has to be worked out through the media. That’s current.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother should I finish pursuing the television lead that I have as an individual and do no more except under the () of Golden Age International?
Shri Mataji: I think so. You see, it’s like you see asking a job from someone who is not obliged to you. But he feels he is obliging you and all the time he’ll be thinking: ‘Oh God, it’s such an obligation’ and this and that. But as a member of this thing you can do a lot. I’m sure. Because otherwise they’ll think they are just trying to oblige you personally. all the time they’ll be having that in their mind, so best thing is just to tell them that actually we are obliging them and not they. You see my point? Graham’s brother who is not a Sahaja Yogi, he’s just (), but he’s managing some public relations thing, can you just imagine? He did the job very well. One person. You get all the details from him.
Sahaja yogi: Yes, he actually wasn’t () he just goes to companies and tells them how they can promote their own products in the best way possible. So I mean in a way we can I suppose tell people that with vibrations and auspiciousness they can improve their own business if they actually come around to our way of thinking, we can actually…
Shri Mataji: But that could be done later on, just now we are not to be identified as Sahaja Yogis. But you can say that that’s what the Sahaja Yogis say. () Not that you are Sahaja Yogis.
Sahaja Yogi: How do we actually get to see them? On what pretext do we go and see them?
Shri Mataji: Pretext we see? We just say that we are here as public relations, alright?
Sahaja Yogi: To see if we can help them in any way?
Shri Mataji: For alternative systems. Even for the present ones. If supposing the Catholic church wants us to help them, alright let’s help now? With important archbishop of Canterbury wants to have some help, we don’t mind helping them very well. With these cunning stupid people I don’t know what to do.
Sahaja Yoga: Mother the way that the Christian religion first spread was because Paul, so called saint Paul was so cunning and that he tricked people and got up and did very similar things, promoting Christ. and even though we know that he was wrong in many ways he spread it so quickly. He even got put in prison and everything.
Shri Mataji: I mean just imagine how stupid they were to allow him to be in the Bible, how is he there? What are his bonafides?
Sahaja Yogi: They didn’t think to ask him Mother because he tricked them.
Shri Mataji: But best was our Archbishop. They asked him: ‘Do you believe in this?’ In the immaculate conception? He said: ‘I’m agnostic’. You see he was very honest about it. Why are you there? Nobody asked him. If you are agnostic, you cannot answer the questions then why are you sitting there, you get out from there. That’s what exactly he said. Somebody asked him ‘Do you really believe that Christ existed?’. He said ‘I’m agnostic, I’ve told you already.’ He was agnostic for everything. But to him Christianity is a social order or maybe a state affair I don’t know whatever it is about that. You see, more a question: ‘How much finance did you get? Where do you spend them? How many buildings you have got? How many walls you have got? How many bulbs you have got?’ You see, like that. It’s that level. Christianity is only that level. People are bust counting all the plates in the house, counting cups in the house, that sort of a thing. It’s a household.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, do you think it’s any help, Jason could help us on this, the fact that we are about to become a charity? Do you think that the Golden Age International could also be involved?
Shri Mataji: A charity?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, involved. I mean how we are based, not the company, but we don’t have to deal in large financial profit because of the basic of a charity.
Shri Mataji: Voluntary system. Something voluntary.
Sahaja Yogi: So, the point that they raised before was that what if we…
Shri Mataji: Call it a voluntary organization. It’s a voluntary organization, because for charity we have no money. Neither we take, nor give, so no question. Charity goes hand in hand with money. But voluntary work anybody can do. Voluntary organization. Do you know Sahaja Yoga has no organization? So far, so good. I don’t know. I hope you people do not turn it into another dead stuff, by organizing it. Having secretaries and all that…I don’t think it would be possible. Now, so come to other problems. Other problems that you have in the ashram. What’s the problem with Hari? What happened?
Sahaja Yogi: There’s no problem Mother, because we shouldn’t involve you with this Mother.
Shri Mataji: But you see what I’m saying, I’m telling you one thing. You were in India, now they have got something settled down here. Try to appreciate it. Don’t try to disturb. Alright?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Now tomorrow somebody comes from Timbuktu, now he comes here and then you say you should not be involved. That’s not possible. So if you want to be kind to me, just accept as the order is just now. Alright? Now, why I am talking it in open because I always get pestered by one person telling me another thing and this thing. Now about Nick people have objections, I know that. They have had. Where is Nick?
Sahaja Yogi: He’s gone to hospital Mother.
Shri Mataji: What?
Sahaja Yogi: He’s gone to the hospital.
Shri Mataji: Where has he gone?
Sahaja Yogi: To the hospital.
Shri Mataji: Hospital? Alright. Or about Kerry and Nick getting together also people have objection or some sort of a thing. Now, that way you will have objection for everyone. I don’t say he’s perfect. He must be wrong, he must be hot tempered, he must be trying to organize you. But he’s not here to give you realization or anything. He’s just there to maintain the () place, alright? So you don’t have to fight with him all the time and say this he should do that he should do, whatever he is doing, he is not doing anything to harm you. Maybe a little ego is there definitely. I do not say that..I do not challenge that. there may be some ego, something working it out, but for that you should accept that after all he is doing all this work, he is staying here, he’s free, he’s very methodical, he doesn’t give out Mother any trouble. Let him do it. For you people you are free in any case because you have got your spirit, you can always develop your spirit. What difference does it make whether you sleep in this room or that room? Do not make issues of nonsensical things. For Sahaja Yogis it doesn’t behoove. Do I do like that? Did I ever say that I would like to sleep here or sleep there? So one thing you must understand we are Sahaja Yogis, we are not ordinary people. We have to behave like saints. How much the saints bear? How do we know a saint? By the way they are, they have got bearing power. The way they are simple, they way they are living with less things. The way they are sacrificing. We are saints and I don’t know what sort of things we are. Alright, I agreed, even if I say that Nick is dominating or he’s doing something like that, alright. Let somebody organize it. Like that you’ll not allow anybody to be organizing. If everybody has a say in the matter, how is it going to work out? But, you are free people. You are absolutely free if you want to enjoy the freedom you have. wherever you are, whatever room you get, wherever you stay. If you are free people, you’ll not create problems. Those who are not free will create problems. It’s as simple as that. So no more quarrelling on this point that I want to stay in this room, it’s too frivolous and not to involve me is not so. I am always involved. So take everything for granted, if you don’t want to live in the ashram you can go away. But now let it go on, don’t give me a headache with it, I have too many things to be done. So nobody should give me a headache, when I find this is absolutely useless I’ll ask somebody else to do it. But I’m sure when the other person comes the same problem will be there. Because your egos are there and if Nick is organizing you think that he is something greater than you. That’s the problem. Not at all. You might be a much greater Sahaja Yogi than he is () but he’s the one who has time, who’s doing the job, it’s alright, let him do it. So why are you interfering with his job? I’m not telling about you or anyone, maybe that you are right, I’m not saying that you’re not right, maybe you are right, but I am told that some people in the ashram believe that there should be no organization about living together. You have not reached that stage, not at all. You have not reached that stage. When you reach that stage where you don’t need any organization like these leaves are see. They don’t need. They grow according to the laws of nature. Do they dominate anybody? Do they trouble anybody? But when you become that lively in the Spirit, in your Father’s domain, then you don’t know how beautiful you would be. There won’t be any problem between each other. Now supposing say somebody X is very good and the Y is very bad, still it is not alright. The Y has to be alright. The X should not be satisfied with what he has got, he’s something great, he should not. The Y has to be alright also. So what he has to do is to pray for him, beat him with shoes, do what you want, but you cannot just say ‘Oh I’m very good the other one is not good.’ That’s not the way Sahaja Yoga is going to work out. Everybody…now say my finger is sick, I won’t say cut off my finger will I? I’ll say alright, I’ll try to improve it, try to save it as much as possible. So that relationship will only develop if you really work out in that way. But if you don’t want to work out in that way then there will be a problem. No more angers, no more tempers, nothing. Now try to quieten yourself and be peaceful. Ashram has to be a place of peace, where peace should reside. God has been so kind to you just imagine. You are living under such a roof, I can’t even think of such a thing in modern times. What a beautiful thing they have done here. Just look at this. Have you ever noticed what God has given you, to be under this roof, so beautifully done for you? Such a beautiful thing. Count your blessings. If this is important. When you are a realised soul, you see nothing but beauty around you and then you give beauty. If you give ugliness then you are not a Sahaja Yogi as yet, you better improve yourself. Why are you talking? And Nick is not the last one in Sahaja Yoga, he is not maybe the first one, but he is the one who was available, he’s good at organising so I asked him to organise. Now you don’t all of you give him ideas. Otherwise every moment you do something he’ll say I give up. Will you take up from him Mr Hari? Alright let’s see.
Sahaja Yogi: No mother. Forgive me if I made a mistake.
Shri Mataji: So then nobody…why I am just telling you because just now the problem came from you. But you are not the first one, this is I think the 11th case. So now as he’s doing it, you are all busy people, let him do it. Let him do it the way he is doing it, just listen to him, nothing important. What is important is your Spirit isn’t it? Keep your attention onto your Spirit and not to these mundane things. And I tell you I have seen in the west people just are trying to find your ways and methods of quarrelling, really. Either Nick quarrels or you quarrel, both are just the same to me. But it’s only just to find something. If your father did not do it, then your grandfather must have done it, like this sort of a thing, you know it’s bad tension and very bad attitude towards each other. Not of mirth and happiness and joy and understanding and enjoyment. That I want you to feel for each other.
Sahaja Yogi: When we go back to New York we’re going to try and get an ashram there and I was wondering, I’m pretty new in Sahaja Yoga () but when we have it, may I please live there?
Shri Mataji: What did he say? The last sentence?
Sahaja Yogi: If they get an ashram in New York, may he live there?
Shri Mataji: Thank you very much. Very kind of you. So what should I do? So? What did he say the last?
Sahaja Yogi: He said they’re hoping to get an ashram there Mother, and if they do please can he live there?
Shri Mataji: Nobody is going to live there?
Sahaja Yogini: Please can he live there?
Shri Mataji: He? You? Alright, why not? You see some new ones are better than the very old ones, I’ve seen that. Sometimes they can act like snakes you know. They take it for granted, they think I don’t understand them. New, old, all these things do not exist in Sahaja Yoga, as long as you love me you’re alright. Also this idea of old and new, you better get rid of it. 26 weeks are sufficient to make you old. If you are one day a Sahaja Yogi you are already old enough. But if you are a week old, then you are very old. And then if you are three weeks old then you are absolutely matured, full grown. You don’t need more than 3 weeks to be a real Sahaja Yogi. Some of them just get a spilt of a second and they are there. Yes, what is it? Did you raise any hand? What water is this? It’s a special one? () What else? Chaiiya (marathi). Ask this Westminster people to send my letters to me, 48 Brompton Square, alright? (marathi) I don’t know how much money is there, nothing, it’s all going to him. Accha now who is collecting money for travelling? Is there anyone?
Sahaja Yogi: Bogdon.
Shri Mataji: Bogdon? Bogdon you are putting in Westminister thing?
Sahaja Yogini: He’s working Mother. He’s working.
Shri Mataji: Alright, is he getting the reports from there?
Sahaja Yogini: No I don’t think, not yet.
Shri Mataji: (Hindi: Aap so jana me tum ne?) So, you please ask him to send that to 48 Brompton Square because I would like to see. (Marathi: Tik?)
Sahaja Yogini: (Hindi)
Shri Mataji: (Hindi: In logh ne sab ne diya) 2.06.44
Sahaja Yogini: (Hindi: inaudible)
Shri Mataji: Hindi: Woh nahi, us cheese ko chor dijiye. Me kareo siruf bank wallah se ke do information mere pas kitna rupia he. Kya muja I have no idea. He gave me just a cheque book, but I think I can also write, isn’t it? To the bank? Alright Gavin if you make the letter I will sign it. Let us send it to him and get it. You see because I have no idea how much money is there. We took some money out, for our travelling, little bit and I don’t know whether they have returned it or not. I have no idea as to what has happened about it. Also bank people are funny. If you don’t take the accounts immediately they won’t give you and if you ask them they’ll say alright you give us money for that and also it’s quite confusing isn’t it? So best thing is to keep day to day account, is the best way. It happened with the other bank account. You see first it was sent to Ashley Gardens. Now they are sending it to me. (inaudible) account. (Hindi). And Gavin you’ll also write. I’ll sign that. So I can consult Bogdon, because I don’t know what to do. Now what else? How am I going to Scotland?
Sahaja Yogi: I had assumed you would go by train Mother.
Shri Mataji: But then what about any car there?
Sahaja Yogi: They will be there Mother. There will be a car coming.
Shri Mataji: Is it? Please find out from Phil whatever money or John is here, they’ll need it for their expenses, whatever help they need because they still haven’t got a job. Who else was? Mark Allen wanted to go there. Susan wanted to go but I thought for the time being let it be. It’s the beginning. So Gavin I think you should little bit look after the advertising or whatever it is. Now would you like somebody to go down to talk to the media people there?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes Mother.
Sahaja Yogi: The Scottish television seemed quite interested Mother.
Shri Mataji: Quite interested?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, they want to know the precise date you’re going to be there.
Shri Mataji: Good, then you contact him, alright? Good idea. It’s done. That’s it.
Sahaja Yogi: Will Brian still be here Mother? Will Brian still be here that time Mother.
Shri Mataji: Yes Brian should be taken help of, he will give you all the ideas. You just form this plan for us. That’s very important. That’s your job, you see. To see to it that you form this organization projection this is yours. You must do it. You see otherwise there will be a problem. Now what’s happening about you Hari, you’re bringing your wife?
Hari: Mother still I can’t find a job. So I…
Shri Mataji: Now, can anybody give him a job temporarily? Will that help?
Hari: You see they want a special letter saying that I have this job with a salary and I have the income in the bank.
Shri Mataji: What is it, it should be a good job or what?
Hari: A good job so that I can support her coming here.
Shri Mataji: But need not be a permanent. Need not be a permanent job?
Hari: Well I think they will more appreciate it if it’s a permanent job.
Shri Mataji: What supposing it is not there?
Hari: Well they will change the situation depending who interviews they will change.
Shri Mataji: But somebody said that if she can come as a tourist here she can get married here and then they will not object to ().
Hari: But she has already given her passport to the British High Commision there. So they will know the details. So if she was to approach them now for that visa, then they would know the situation there. They would not grant her that visa. So the only alternative, the only way out is for me to get a job and send that letter to her.
Shri Mataji: Why didn’t you talk to the people that had employed you that you give us something now? You go and talk, somebody should go and talk for you.
Hari: I spoke to the personal manager and he said he’s not actually,, I would call him again.
Shri Mataji: What’s the best way to avoid a person. Come back to me, you see he’ll never come back. You take somebody with you who can talk.
Hari: Who would you suggest Mother?
Shri Mataji: Anybody who should say that you see for the guarantee of this man, this girl married him and that should be done. And we can ask these English to give you a job temporarily, can we? Gavin? Can it be done?
Gavin: He’s busy setting up a travel agents in the United States just now.
Shri Mataji: So he can just offer him a job or something.
Sahaja Yogi: No Mother, I think it might be better if he gets a job with John Fulston, because I think John is trying to set up a company or something and also it’s more in keeping with his qualifications.
Shri Mataji: Why not try that? Will you talk to him? Alright.
Sahaja Yogi: I did start talking to him and I was sort of winding him around, but he needs a bit more pushing perhaps from you.
Shri Mataji: Alright, you better contact him.
Sahaja Yogi: We’ll work it out so they’ll let him.
Shri Mataji: Good idea, alright? So talk to him, he’s a very responsible person. Alright, that’s done then. Any other problem?
Sahaja Yogi: Mother I’ve been living here for two weeks and since I’ve been here the meditation in the morning hasn’t been on time. I’ve talked to Nick and others about it and I haven’t gotten any satisfactory answers. They just say that people don’t get up on time. And I don’t understand what or how to correct it.
Shri Mataji: What how to? You don’t understand what?
Sahaja Yogi: I don’t understand why it isn’t on time or what should be done about it. I feel like it’s a collective problem.
Shri Mataji: You are not getting your vibrations?
Sahaja Yogi: No, meditation doesn’t start on time.
Shri Mataji: It’s alright. See they are all English Lords. Where are they lost all the English Lords? Their tailcoats have gone but still they’re Lords (). They’ll come around. I have patience, you also have patience. What to do? They are all Lords, you see. Lords, ladies and gentlemen. It means Lords are not gentlemen. Sometimes people say like that. Lords, ladies and gentlemen. In Hindi language they are called ‘laatsabh’, you see even if somebody is a lethargic person they’ll say ‘laatsabh’ is sleeping still, even in India. They are Lords. The 4 o’clock program was really very symbolic, you see. To give the program at 4 o’clock in the morning. He must have said that in Sahaja Yoga you have to get up really early. It’s so symbolic. No you must try to keep certain discipline with yourself, I said you be tyrannical to yourself. Be tyrannical. That’s the only way. Can you open the window? When I call you lords, I really tell you are all angry because you become hot. It’s not an easy thing to be a realized soul. And it’s not an easy thing to be established as realized souls, I must say. You have to really work. Physical, mental, emotional hangs out. This is only physical my child, but they have others also. And you all don’t know how one has to manage that. Thank you very much. She has come alone?
Sahaja Yogini: No she’s been staying with us for a little while Mother and she’s going back today.
Shri Mataji: She’s growing tall.
Brian: Mother, may I tell a little story from Australia, about the media?
Shri Mataji: Yes, tell them. Good idea.
Brian: I remind you that we were in Melbourne and I asked you or we asked you if would come down very early one day to take a very early flight so that you would be available for the press and for television. Two of us travelled down the day before and handed out a lot of press reports to the television channels and to the newspapers. We’d already had a couple of articles in the newspapers but we had nothing on television in Melbourne. I had to meet you very early, I think it was something like the plane arrived at 8 in the morning so it must have left at, you must have been at the airport soon after 6 and I…
Shri Mataji: I must have left at 5 o’clock.
Brian: I went to meet you and tell you that nothing had been lined up. That your day looked like being a completely wasted one. You then questioned as to who I’d contacted and I explained that I’d been to, 2 of the television channels had taken the program from Sydney so they weren’t interested anymore and the other 2 I had to ring back as to whether they would do an item. So you were very gracious and went off to the house. The phone in the house was out of order and so I had to go out in the car and phone from a phone box. It was about the 4th, 5th or even perhaps 6th phone box that wasn’t broken. When eventually I got through to channel 7, I was told by the girl that I’d spoken to the day before that ‘Oh I’d phoned at just the right time!’ because she’d just come in and she was going out again. And yes they would be interested in doing a news item and interviewing you. Where would that be? Immediately in () I said Park, because in the park it was a beautiful day. So then I had to go back and I already had to make time as well, it was something I’d never done so I found myself committing you to an interview at half past 12 in a park in the middle of the city about 15 miles from where you were. So I was like this! I arrived back at the house and when I explained to you, you said ‘You looked so disappointed this morning, we had to do something!’
Shri Mataji: And it was a very wonderful interview. Extremely relaxed and nice you see. It depends on your state of mind you see. To me, if I’m here I’m here, it’s alright. I’m here, that’s all. To me it does not matter whether I have to have something or to get something. That doesn’t matter to me at all you see. It is I’m here at this point. I’ve come as your Mother and to give realization to people. Now, how I do it, that I will do. So I don’t have to worry as to how do I do it. When I face the problem, supposing somebody comes before me, he’s got vibrations or something I’ll work out, but it does not matter with me if he doesn’t get realization I don’t get upset myself, neither I upset that other person. Because if I get upset he’ll be much more upset, thinking that if Mother is upset with me, when am I going to get realization isn’t it? So that would be much more upsetting. But it’s not rational with me it’s my nature. I’m completely at peace with myself, I have no problem. I’m not disappointed, nothing of the kind. Perhaps there’s only one thing that upsets me, really, if there’s anything that really upsets me. Is I find that there is no pure love between you. That love is not felt. That you’re not enjoying the love, you see doesn’t matter anything you do but you love each other. That’s very important because that’s most pleasing to me. But loving doesn’t mean some sort of a nonsense you people know about, that’s not the thing. Love is a feeling of oneness, of unity, of being you see. Like Jamail once told me, he came down to Bombay and he was very seriously ill in Bombay and he came down to London. Now London is not his place, nothing of the kind, as soon as he came to Heathrow he felt he belonged to this place he came here and he got all right. 100%. And he wanted to meet everyone, everyone wanted to meet him. That sort of a thing. You are all lost people who have now found each other. After so many years of searching you have found each other. Why create problems among yourself? Nothing at all needed. The rest I’ll look after. You just don’t worry. Now, for the other people like the medias, this thing, that thing, whatever it is, you’re trying hard, my blessing are with you, but also it’s not your job. You don’t have to worry. If it doesn’t work out, alright, we’ll work out, that’s all (marathi). You’re job is to work happily, stay where you are. You will not jostle, you will not sort of be speedier, you will not be lethargic, nothing. If you stay in the centre your speed will be so well balanced that you’ll not hit anyone. That you’ll move and everything will move with you. The relationship has to be established you see. You see in a car you go, the relationship with the wheel, the relationship with the switch, the relationship with a clutch and the accelerator, the brakes and all these things, carburators, everywhere is fixed like that you see and you move with that. Supposing they all start moving in different directions then what will happen? First establish your relationship properly. That’s very important, I have been telling you. That’s first thing and foremost thing. Is to establish your relations alright. With outsiders I’ll manage. With outsiders there’s no problem. Because you see they are not interested, why should we worry? Now this thing we have formed, it’s really because we would like to joke with them a little bit. I don’t know how many will be saved with this, I don’t know. Let’s see. But it’s a big joke, you know. You have to play with them. Let’s see. You see creation is not difficult. Making human beings was not difficult, but making Sahaja Yogis is very difficult. It’s the most difficult. You have been made yogis in the sense you have got realization that’s all, but Sahaja Yogis, to make good Sahaja Yogis is not easy. It’s a perfect work. And the perfect work has to be done with peace, with understanding. Sometimes I really also show my irritation at things, because then I find that you are perfected, but at the stage where we are now I feel quite happy and confident. Somehow I had a feeling that there’s not so much of distrust and domination now within Sahaja Yogis. It’s not so bad. Once it is established I have nothing to worry. See we have to be a solid personality. Once we are that, we’ll manage. We’ll manage everything. No doubt. We can do it. But first this is one of the very big things we have to do. And moreover, you see, the western people have a very greater responsibility. I can get thousands of them in India, but today we have to fight the intellectuals, we have to fight the administrators, we have to fight the countries you see with big people, so called. With them, these emotional people, the people of India who are emotionally bound, who are emotionally higher, cannot fight. Imagine a person like, say Dumal, meets your President, he will just say he is a mad man, why are you making me talk to him? He’ll just give him up, you see. He’ll just say ‘This mad man, why have you brought me to talk to this mad man?’ That’s all Dumal will say and just turn back and go away. But an intellectual will know, because he has gone through all that madness, so he knows. It’s only he can retrace him back, not Dumal. Dumal will just say ‘Oh, what’s this mad woman, mad man?’ that’s all. So he has done many a times like this. 2.27.06. That’s why, because if you have to save these people then we have to have very good Sahaja Yogis in the west. 02.27.15. We have problems, all those are they are to be worked out. But develop certain of my habits is one of them is Mother is very peaceful. Her pace is not fast, She doesn’t jostle people around. Try to be calm, peaceful. Calm down yourself. And that’s only possible when you are solidly holding each other’s hands. Then there is no agility or agitation anymore. You just calm down, all of you. Ha, yes?
Sahaja Yogi: I’ve got John on the telephone asking when he should pick you up.
Shri Mataji: Pick me up? For what?
Sahaja Yogi: To take you back.
Shri Mataji: Aaahhh. I’d forgotten. I thought some policeman is going to pick me up. Let him come. Or somebody can drop me. Have you got a car anyone?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes Mother.
Shri Mataji: All right. Somebody can drop me, let it be because he’ll come all the way and then go, it’s better you drop me there. Are you going that side?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes Mother, yes.
Shri Mataji: Alright. So, what’s the other thing?
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, how do you deal with politicians?
Shri Mataji: Don’t ask me. You take a pin and puncture their ego. You just talk to them and tell them ‘What have you achieved?’. You see mostly they’re mediocre, they’re mediocre people. They are not intelligent, bright people you know, mediocre. Absolutely. Worried about the (worms) of people you see must have, if somebody has a car, you must also have a car. If somebody has this, you must also have this. This sort of a thing. Very low level people they are. What can you talk to them? We can’t stoop down to their levels. Forget them. They themselves will come one day to Sahaja Yoga, because it’s not easy to have politics on their heads. Very low level. I think the lowest level people go to politics and take to politics, because they think they have no significance in life, they are useless, so they think that’s the best place to go and show your significance. I tell you the wretchedest people go there. And those who are good people will never outshine. I mean I’ve heard your politicians, I don’t think much of them. None of them. They will just have jokes about how a queen’s party works out, sort of a thing you know. Nothing serious. I think there is no connection between them and reality. They don’t know, they have never experienced I think, what they are talking about. Even the socialists when they talk about this and that, they have not known poverty. They don’t know what are the pangs of poverty are. Just they are talking just to make a business out of it, that’s all. If you ask them give your one coat to somebody will they give? You have to be extremely generous and compassionate to be a socialist, they are not, none of them are. It’s all self appointed business you see, get more house, get more this thing that thing and then do what? Drink. What else? Get bhoots in the house. Invite them, feed them. For what do they need money? Everything is money oriented and absolutely low level, very low level. You see if you listen to the news, especially in England I don’t know what they do in other countries, there is strike one thing, then the pound has gone or come down, or the dollar has gone and come down, or gold prices, or they are asking for so many percentage higher, they are asking for so much percentage. I think they must be losing count you know, I’m sure. The way they are fighting I mean nothing, there’s no sense in what they are doing. Half of the news is like that. Ten percent strikes, fifteen percent, for what? And that too, they are so miserly whatever money they have. They don’t put into something sensible, at the most drinking. You won’t even find a nice teacup with these people, not even one nice teacup. Why your industries are going down, because nobody want to buy anything, only thing that will go up is whisky or something like that. There’s no cultural rapport with them. Horrible. Forget them. I’ve met some of your leaders. They’re surprised that I’m a happy person. Quite surprised. So they’re unhappy people, make everyone unhappy. Those who take to politics are mostly very low type of people, very low mentality. They are good for nothing useless people who want to show off, that’s all. On my opinion is like that, I don’t know. When it comes to sacrifices, they cannot. They make everyone fight, do all kinds of bad things and take advantage. Unions, what are these unions doing? Spoiling everybody’s lives and ideas. Why don’t they teach them that you should not drink? What good have they done to people? Labour class, you just tell them not to drink, that’s the first thing you should do. Stop all the pubs, you see. Gandhiji was a real politician I should say. He went all out to stop all the shops of wine and other drinks in India. All of it. Then he stopped people buying foreign goods. Hand woven, hand spun. Everybody should wear, whether you are a minister or anything. So? A poor man can wear the same dress as a minister can wear. All kinds of things you see, he tried from a well being point of view. They are not for your well being at all because they have no sense at all of well being. Politicians are no good. They are no good. They have to be enlightened. But how many politicians will take to Sahaj Yog? Can you think of even one?
Sahaja Yogini: They are tricking people Mother.
Shri Mataji: It’s not a question of tricking you see, the thing is they will never even see. They haven’t got intelligence to see that there is something beyond you should see. Apart from tricking, you see some may be good also, but they are not able to see that you have to go beyond this. So they will never take to Sahaj Yog. It’s not meant for these people. I don’t think of any, any one of them who will take to Sahaj Yog. You were saying David…what’s his name? David Steel would take. I don’t think so. Why would he take to Sahaj Yog. No elections in Sahaja Yoga. It’s a game, it’s a game. Very low level people. I wish they could take to Sahaj Yog. Sahaja Yoga would have spread much more, no doubt, but they won’t. It’s rather difficult. So should we go now? Alright? Yes, what is it?
Sahaja Yogi: Inaudible.
Shri Mataji: I don’t know, Gavin knows better than me, when can I go. But I would say it’s a hot country or a cold country?
Sahaja Yogi: It’s medium. It’s wet.
Shri Mataji: It’s a wet country.
Sahaja yogini: It’s about the same only it’s wetter Mother.
Shri Mataji: When does it rain?
Sahaja Yogini: In the summer.
Shri Mataji: I don’t know, you just can see yourself and let me know. Whenever you say we can do it, but ask Gavin when I’m free I don’t know. I can do it for 2 or 3 days or 4 days, it makes no difference to me. But the only thing is it should not be something all the way I go and nothing can work out you see. Ha, how are you? Are you going back?
Sahaja Yogini: No we are staying in London now for a few weeks.
Shri Mataji: Really?
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Why? What happened?
Sahaja Yogini: Well the job in Darby is finished and David starts work in Brighton job in October, 1st of October. So we have a few weeks in London.
Shri Mataji: So you are enjoying your holidays now?
Sahaja Yogini: Yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: You come to Geneva with me? For a program. What will you do in holidays at the best? Alright? You can go, because I am going to Basel, he has a house, we can all stay there. So if you have any other plans you can say, that would be a good idea.
Sahaja Yogini: Alright Mother. I wanted to give you this when Anupama was not here, this was the one she gave you and it was left by mistake in Darbyshire so we kept it.
Shri Mataji: Anupama?
Sahaja Yogini: Yes, you remember she gave you that in Darbyshire, it was left behind.
Shri Mataji: It’s beautiful. I don’t know where she got it. And Kalpana has really asked me to thank you very much for all that you’ve done. Thousand and one times she’s asked me to tell you that.
Sahaja Yogini: Thank you Mother.
Shri Mataji: Now you are all here in London it’s good, but if you can come it will be a good idea. Gavin I have bought my passport, should I give you?
Gavin: Ah yes.
Shri Mataji: Can I have that? You are looking alright. How are you keeping?
Sahaja yogini: Fine yes Mother.
Shri Mataji: Much better. Much better now, ha. So, look at the size of it (passport). It is to be sealed like that, that’s what they told me, I don’t know why, but it has to be. I had another one, but this is the one. I don’t know why they have it that way. So now I’m going to Switzerland and Germany?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes I’ll make arrangements for a Visa for France as well if you want to go to…
Shri Mataji: France?
Sahaja Yogi: inaudible.
Shri Mataji: So am I going to her?
Sahaja Yogi: They are suggesting that you have Puja at her house. If it’s convenient for you they are suggesting they have to Puja in her house. So then there is less controversy about which one to meet in Geneva.
Shri Mataji: But it should be in Switzerland somewhere. Because you see France we’ve done the Puja. I can go to her house it’s different for me, but what I’m saying that I’ve done the Puja there. These people require, Switzerland people. Now, so what time is the program? 7 o’clock?
Sahaja yogi: It’s advertised at half past six Mother.
Shri Mataji: Alright, so I’ll be there at seven. You start it off. What is that now?
Sahaja Yogini: This was the thing that one of the boys from Darby did a picture for you and it was left behind.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, I was wondering that. He’s done a good job. He’s not put his name here.
Sahaja Yogini: John was his name.
Sahaja Yogini: And this one came with you Mother.
Shri Mataji: What is that?
Sahaja Yogini: It came with you Mother.
Shri Mataji: So you keep it here.
Sahaja Yogini: These were the stands Mother for the blue cobalt plates with gold on them from Hampstead.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes.
Sahaja Yogini: I has these stand to put it on.
Shri Mataji: You are putting the plates on this?
Shri Mataji: But I wanted to have the exact name you know because you see my husband likes it very much and he says you could buy it every month or something like that.
Sahaja Yogini: I’ll phone the…
Shri Mataji: Find out. It’s beautiful. They make it themselves?
Sahaja Yogini: Well they sell it with the ().
Shri Mataji: Is it? And the cup also can be put? Thank you.
Sahaja yogini: Thank you very much Mother.
Shri Mataji: That’s the kind of work I have seen in Buckingham Palace. They have that kind.
Sahaja yogini: And there is, I don’t like to give it to you now, this came with the family. What’s that?
Sahaja yogini: It belongs to your family Mother.
Shri Mataji: Your family?
Sahaja Yogini: It’s a towel.
Shri Mataji: Which family? It will be fine. Alright.
Sahaja Yogini: David wanted to give this to you.
Shri Mataji: Thank you, thank you very much. Very kind of you. So for 4 or 5 weeks you have holiday? Are you happy?
Sahaja Yogini: Ah yes, very happy Mother . It’s nice for him because he’s been working so hard. All night long working.
Shri Mataji: Baapre! He’s thinned down very much. It’s horrible this work is. All the doctors have to do like this is it?
Sahaja Yogi: In the hospitals Mother until you become a consultant you have to work at night.
Shri Mataji: I think it’s too much. I think they’ve increased now.
Sahaja yogi: It’s uh…there aren’t enough people really it must be because they do have to work too hard. It’s not a balanced sort of a system.
Shri Mataji: And moreover too much of writing they have to do, too much of writing. Now, can somebody take these? So, May God Bless you all.
I hope to see you there this evening and be nice.
So, Hari you find out about this job all right? And fix it up.
Hari: Yes, Mother.
How is Roxanna? Is she better now?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother. She had written a very strong letter to her mother.
Sahaja Yogini: Yes, Mother. I talked to my mother what you said, that’s she’s coming to Sahaja Yoga. And I said to her she had to stop politics because politics is finished and it makes more worse things.
Shri Mataji: I think that is one of the things you are catching all the time, apart from the left Swadishthana, it’s heart here, all the time. Are you better now, in the heart?
Sahaja yogini: Thank you Mother. I vibrate it and I put it in front of your picture Mother [inaudible].
Shri Mataji: I hope she’ll understand.
They are all useless people, you know, there’s nothing to follow there, what is there to follow this nonsense? But I don’t know what she thinks.
Sahaja yogini: I remind her that she should cure as she has arthritis. I said it is there because she has stopped and she doesn’t believe in Sahaja Yoga.
Shri Mataji: It’s coming back again to her, arthritis?
Sahaja yogi: She footsoaks everyday and she meditates every day in front of your picture, but she cannot really make the connection. She thinks that by our means we cannot change the world really and so she carries on with…
Shri Mataji: So, she’s going to change the whole world?
Sahaja yogini: I said to her the politics is not going to save the world. The only thing is Sahaja yoga, it’s the only way now. I said to her the only way.
Shri Mataji: She won’t understand. She won’t understand this, you have to have brains, I’ve told you, they aren’t intelligent enough to see that. To them saving means only if socialism comes. Let them go to socialistic countries, then they will know. That’s the answer for all such people I tell you.
Yes, still? What is it?
Sahaja yogini: It’s a letter.
Shri Mataji: Thank you. Now what about anything more you want to do?
Sahaja yogini: Whatever you say Mother.
Shri Mataji: Wednesday I may be free, just telephone to Me all right? Tomorrow I may not be so much, maybe in the day time. Telephone to me alright. Also bring him, because he wanted to see Me. And we’ll talk about it more. And who else wanted to see Me? You? All right. You telephone to Me tomorrow morning and I’ll be able to tell you what exactly the situation is.
Shri Mataji: It was very nice yesterday’s puja and everything. We have had great vibrations. So, vibrations were just [unsure] especially joyful on that.
Sahaja Yogi: Beautiful really.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Sahaja Yogi: Beautiful puja.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Another Sahaja Yogi: Really wonderful.
Do You remember Mother, when You first came to the fire and we lit it, the wind came really strong, such strong wind, amazing.
[Shri Mataji is laughing.]
Shri Mataji: That was the Indra’s work, to see how far you are going to achieve it.
May God bless [end of audio]