This contact form is available only for logged in users.
Guru Tattwa Puja. Brompton Square, London (UK), 18 August 1982.
You see people have very wrong ideas in Sahaja Yoga that, “We are people who are higher, we are higher people and we should try to control the lower people.” And the lower people have even worst ideas because they think that, “These people are trying to boss us, are trying to control us and trying to tell us, and they are sort of taking away our freedom to do things ourselves and they are impressing upon us.” You see this is the thing, and this is a very important principle of Guru Tattwa is, very important. Because in Guru Tattwa is a ten petal thing and inside is the Nabhi chakra, you see, the ten petals are, they’re to be balanced. There has to be a complete balance so that they go through the Nabhi chakra upwards. If there is no balance, Nabhi chakra gets closed. And this is the thing people don’t understand that nobody is higher and lower as such. That’s that way.
Only thing that they’re all part and parcel of the same, if there is an imbalance on one side, then it has to be raised. If there is an imbalance on one side, the other side is affected in any case. So those who are creating imbalances should not feel that in any way they are dominated or anything, on the contrary they are lowering or tilting the other side. So one has to balance-its one thing-so there cannot be anything higher or lower, you understand my point here? If it is a one thing, supposing that tilts like that, so we can’t say, “This is lower, this is higher.” No. It is the same thing because it is tilting like that, you see. This may look little gone up because they get tensed up, these people who are at this level, higher level, and the others feel that we are put down. Once we understand we are all one and the same, then there will not be this feeling of somebody trying to be higher or not.
But those people who are at a higher level even they are pushed down by the people who are at a lower level, so called. It is not a lower level at all as I told: it’s one part of the whole thing, you see. It’s a round circle and one part of the circle goes down, say for example, or one side of the circle goes down possibly, anything can happen. Then the other side becomes upset and becomes more aggressive, this way or that way. It may try to run away from them or it may try to dominate them because they get affected, it’s natural.
So there should be an attitude that those who are controlling, should try to pacify others, to sometimes tell them firmly, but they should keep their own balance. If they keep their own balance, the other side cannot push them too low, you understand my point? Because they can’t keep their own dignity and can’t keep their ego intact, they go off.
It is one thing, it’s not separate. There is no entity separate now, is one entity in collective consciousness. So this is why I say, “Nothing is lower or higher, you keep to your own position.” That’s very important: not to be aggressed, nor to aggress. That’s how you will also make them steady. Did you follow this point?
But what I find that, if somebody does anything wrong, all the rest, those who are all right, maybe better or maybe in charge or whatever it is, try to behave in a very tense manner. They just, they’re no more normal and they try to dominate that person. Leave him alone for a while. It will work out. Say a position comes up, simple positions come up. Say somebody is very materialistic, very materialistic person. Still there is a matter attached to him; there’s hang-ups and he’s still pulled down, still like that, something he’s doing wrong. Now those people, who understand he’s done a wrong thing, should see it, watch it and put their attention steady. By putting their attention itself steady, they’ll bring up the fellow you see, because the fellow is going down no doubt, because of the pull on him. Now when he is materialistic, how should we approach a person who is materialistic?
Yogi’s answer: We keep ourselves (INAUDIBLE / IN THE SPIRIT)
Shri Mataji: Yes, but how to? Say you are living with a person who is very materialistic?
Yogi’s answer: Allow them to stay with their possessions a while and see that not everything he needs, other things are more important than his materials. Allow him his own time to see that.
Shri Mataji: No, best thing is, when he is materialistic and the balance is going down because of the material things that he has around, and he thinks that material things are good and live with the material things, then what you should do is to give away something that you have precious with him, to give to him. And then he’ll be so shocked, “How could you give that way.” You see, that’s how. You just so shock that person by giving the most precious thing that you have. Then the person is shocked. Or give away something that he says, “I like it.” “All right, have it.” I do that many a times. Just shock the person, shock. “God no, how did give away the most precious thing that she has” or “The thing that I liked she just gave up.” And then they ask you a question, “How could you do it?” She said, “I enjoy my generosity.” Then they feel that this is something wrong. These are the subtle ways.
In everything if you study the reactions of a person you can make it out how he is in the Spirit, in everything. Say a person, two persons go somewhere and you see a girl who is over-attractive or something, and one starts looking at her all the time, this is another weakness some people have. Now how do you come over it, how do you balance it? Let’s have, practical side is there. This Sahaja Yoga is very practical. Mine is all spontaneous reactions, immediately I vomit or I, you can act as vomiting if you can’t. Immediately I vomit and the person will ask, “Why?” So I would say, “I can’t bear the insult of the chastity of the lady.”
That means what have I done in all these things? I have brought it upon Myself the whole thing, not on the other person: that is Nirmala Vidya. You see, My everyday life, if you get with Me, you will learn how I react, to anything and how it helps to neutralize the problem. It’s very deep knowledge. But I don’t know if you study my behavior to different things, how I react. Sometimes it will be strong shock, sometimes it will be mild, sometimes it will be loving, sometimes… It’s all, you see it is, Nirmala Vidya is a mobile reaction (DELETE – NOT NOW IF YOU DON’T MIND ) Is a very, very subtle understanding of human nature is. Sometimes you have to be neglect a person, sometimes you have to… it’s a thing you must learn through your Sahaja Yoga method. And when the Guru Tattwa is really developed inside yourself, it automatically goes. But everywhere you must remember that it is your power which is going to work it out, not the power of another person. This is a basic thing which Sahaja Yogis miss.
Now we are organizing an Ashram, say for example. And one gentleman comes and says that, “I will stay in this room. I want to have this, I want to have that.” How will you arrange that? You have not thought from that angle you know, that’s right. Now what we will do, supposing such a situation (COULD BE- COMES IN/ UP.) Then what you have to do? “All right, you want to have, have it. You have my bed, you have everything. All right, you want to have your cooking arrangement? Will get you this, will get you that.” Make him into an idiot. But you have to sacrifice it there. If you are yourself an idiot, you cannot make another an idiot. Let him look like an idiot in his own eyes. Also like some sort of an absurd thing which is, say, you can give him, say, some sort of an absurd thing which normal he doesn’t use, something like that you see. For example, a person who’s demanding too much and this, that, you can say, “All right. You can even have a (SOUNDS LIKE-RAKE/RAG.) So he may say, “Why (RAKE/RAG?)” “Oh if you want to have a (INAUDIBLE /A LUMP) in your room?” I don’t know what you can … They’re idiotic people. You see, these ego oriented can go to the idiotic level and if you show them what (INAUDIBLE OR TURN THEIR HEADING FOR), that the idiocy is ahead of you see, all your ego so called, then they (INAUDIBLE).
But in all this you have to show one thing very clearly, is concern, concern, trust, dependence. You have to admit that, “We can’t do it without you. You are in the picture. Now we have to look after. You have to do it. It’s our job.” It’s more a maternal and a paternal feeling. It’s a sort of a patronizing feeling. We should not be shown as a (SOUNDS LIKE -PARENCY AS THEY SHOW / PARENT-SHIP OR A STAY SHOW) but the wantedness that, “We want you. We can’t do without you.”
Sometimes it may act as an ego. Then you should just show, “I have nothing to do. We have nothing to do with you. Get out. We have nothing to do. Get out of our benevolence.” But once in a while you do that it’s good.
It’s a style of Sahaja Yoga is, but Mine is so spontaneous I don’t have to think about it because that’s My style only. But you can understand it and gradually when you start growing in your understanding, the concern, you see, (SOUNDS LIKE – the trouble ) is the concern, too much feeling that, “Oh God, this man is going to be lost” Then you immediately know how to do it. Somebody is drowning; you know he’s getting drowned. You have to save that, your part and parcel of your being is getting drowned. Then you will know how to save him. You will know. That’s within you built in; all Nirmala Vidya is built in within you today (COULD BE- IT / AND) should be enlightened.
And the first and the last resort is (SOUNDS LIKE- what? Is) asking your Mother (INAUDIBLE) If with pure heart and concern if you ask it. So far people have been only asking about themselves, but I know about the prayers people (INAUDIBLE / are speaking 🙂 all their wife, husband, children this, that nothing more. But asking for others I seldom hear in the prayers. You see that concern itself makes you a great person. And then if you scold somebody, nobody minds because they know that you are doing for their good. They like it. This is the sign of a good Guru. Try to put your attention to others than to yourself. Now you are collectively conscious. You are only feeling their chakras, but are you becoming themselves?
America is a very difficult place I must tell you. People are extremely selfish, self-centered and the biggest problem is that to them nothing is important they’re the most important things, you see, very high handed, very high handed. They never think everybody else has got any brains but the Americans you see, they’re the wisest. It’s very difficult. While British you see, because of traditional life and they have been beaten up so many times now they have learnt a lesson. Americans have (INAUDIBLE/doing it,) say in Vietnam, in Korea and all that, but still they’re stupid people I tell you. They don’t learn much from that, you see. Now imagine Vietnam? What’s, what a chaos it has been! Look at themselves in their own country. I mean it’s all right to say, “Russia is like that.” But you don’t say against Russia and America. Russia is definitely a peaceful country, absolutely a peaceful and no doubt about it. Whether it fear or whatever it is. There’s no violence. You don’t have to look after your purse all the time, nothing is lost anywhere you; People are very generous, giving type, you see. Material wealth is now becoming less important. So many people told Me in Russia that they want their (SOUNDS LIKE /seekers) their spirit, so many. They wanted to go to India, that’s their dream one day. They think India is heaven; they don’t know all the bhoots that co exist there. Now just see all the bhoots from India and the rakshasas have gone and settled in America because atmosphere is so congenial.
Yesterday that (SOUNDS LIKE- MONORAY TCHAHORA) told Me that they are: this Rajneesh is making a bigger money (INAUDIBLE /there) than he was making in India. Muktannanda has prospered so much, he has so much money there, doesn’t want to come back. Everybody has got so much money and I can’t go to America because I don’t have sufficient funds, can you imagine. How (COULD BE- STUPID THEY ARE/ so is there?) They cannot differentiate between good and bad. They cannot differentiate between God and the devil. Idiotic I should say, to that extent. So they’re very difficult people but they are great saints on them though they have become stupid I think cursed somehow or other. I have such concern because first country I visited was America. I was very careful in talking to them but all the time they are talking about dollars, dollars, dollars and I thought I’ve completely failed. And all those people whom I gave Realization, only one person among all of them, at least I have given Realization to three thousands people in California, one person (re/turned) back. He was no good, all left Swadisthana problems, here to there, all caught up. Now our idea should be if we can save them well and good, if not forget it. It’s really reaching that stage of exhaustion. I’ll try one trip next year. Let’s see how they work out. I’d sent one gentleman there a good guru. I told him I sent word to him that he go there, he ran away. Third day he was out of New York. He said, “They cannot understand God. They cannot. They have no (SOUNDS LIKE- Vidyas) that’s not in their culture to understand. They cannot understand. They can only understand a Satan.” They said, “You must get money, what’s it, you have no money, this thing.” They are impressed by people like this fat fellow who has fifty -year old Rolls Royce.
And freedom means abandonment to them. They don’t know what real freedom is. It’s a very serious thing because I’m working on America all the time so just don’t get desperate about it. Thing may work out at its own time. So next year I’ll be there and we’ll organize the whole program. I think they are not yet (INAUDIBLE) still prepared. I could have gone much earlier. I went first time there. I could have gone second year again but my experiences were so shocking. I said, “They’re absolutely on the other side of the world I tell you. They have to come up a lot. They’ve gone too far with their atmosphere. They have to come back, to come to the centre. Too far, and they’ve lost.” They don’t understand that with their ego has just blasted. So I don’t blame you for that in (COULD BE-any way), (COULD BE-your also Guru principle) but you have to be a little formal with them, I think and try to see how many you can get. There’s nothing to worry about them but I think now you will meet.
A yogi asked, Is there hope for Canada? Is it hope for Canada?
Shri Mataji answers: Yes Canada would be better. Canada because they’re are agriculturists, you see agriculturists are always better. Much better people than others, you see these technocrats and these machine people. You see if you are all the time touching the machine, you see, you also become like a machine, you see. The person, who gives you the machine lives like the machine. Starts up like this, opens his briefcase like that, walks up like that, it’s a machine like. So it is true that Canada will be better and maybe that from Canada it will come. Maybe it will come from South of Boston. Boston was a good reaction. Boston is better. There again are people living with nature. Here you see there is the whole of New York you won’t find any ground anywhere you, the roads are all covered, everything is covered with cement. New York is the most difficult place. And also because you are so close to New York and with that young (COULD BE- age/ OR /haste) that you have around there are people who think “Oh this is the time to, sort of be enjoying yourself, you see, (INAUDIBLE / douching) this, that.” They have no time for God.
A yogi: (SOUNDS LIKE- It’s conditioned into them at that age to go out and ruin themselves)
Shri Mataji: So they lack that maturity but they’ll come back for sure.
Another yogi: I was born in New York and so I always had, (SOUNDS LIKE- this city) it’s been part of me. I always had this tremendous feeling that New York is such a centre of; in a way you can say there is a negative in the sense of money, culture and all the artificial things that if it were only cracked it’s such a center that it would change a lot, it would change. I mean, New York must be very important to try and keep on working on it.
Shri Mataji: (inaudible) is important no doubt. I mean, imagine it is the Vishuddhi chakra centre, the centre of the Vishuddhi chakra. It is important no doubt but what to do? Such a Vishuddhi, such a Vishuddhi hard nut, I have to crack it. I must get the map of America, New York just to crack it. Vishuddhi you see, all other centers you can raise Kundalini but at Vishuddhi, what you have to do is a strong action because the ego starts from there, the superego starts from there. It’s the starting point. That chanting Shri Krishna’s (SOUNDS LIKE -existing) in New York you find so many of Hari Rama, Hari Krishna. Every corner you find them. That’s the Vishuddhi.
A yogi: They all shout Hari Rama Hari Krishna. They just come to you and give you flowers and ask you for donations. (INAUDIBLE)
Shri Mataji: Now they’ve become, that is, they’ve become beggars, imagine.
Will you contact and tell them that, “Now your guru is dead. He has given you nothing except for begging.” Somebody can talk to them. He has saved some people from Hari Rama, Hari Krishna now. We can send him to New York sometimes, (INAUDIBLE / get all.). Here also you can contact these people (COULD BE- you should same thing/ INAUDIBLE) nothing of yours, “You are just like beggars on the street. We are doing God’s work. Why don’t you join us?” Their ego is on top a tremendous type because this fellow has told them that, “You have to be austere, you have to not do this, you have to be vegetarians,” vegetarians’ means horrible. Of course the vegetarianism is good for people who have eaten too much of non-veg also, you see, because Americans, if they become vegetarians, it should be good because they are so violent; it may help them. But Indians it’s better to be non vegetarians. But for Americans maybe it may suit them a little more of vegetable eating because they are very dried people and they’re heated up, very violent, angry type. So it may suit them a little bit,(INAUDIBLE /they have) more vegetables and less of meats. May suit as I said but it’s not a thing that can be a religion.
A yogi: Usually they become fanatical about their diets.
Shri Mataji: Diets, anything you see, human beings are such, somehow or other they get stuck-up. You give them anything, they will become fanatical. Even Sahaja Yoga they can become fanatical. Then now what can we give them? I mean just think of it, this is the limit. Even about Sahaja Yoga how can you be fanatical? It kills all fanaticisms. Fanaticism means an obsession, when you are not in power. Whatever you get attached to, gets on top of you, you see. Now in Sahaja Yoga you are in power. Sahaja Yoga you are handling. You are the one handling Sahaja Yoga. Who are Sahaja Yoga? It never sits on everybody’s head, can it? It teaches you how to love, how to give. How can it sit on anybody’s head? How can it be fanatical?
Somebody, say for example drinks, who comes the other day, the fellow was asking. Then they said that, “If you drink then you cannot become established”. Is all right, that’s not fanaticism. “But because you drink you get out of this place, you have nothing to do, we cannot give you Realization”. This is not the way Sahaja Yoga is. It’s a loving thing. It’s love. “All right you drink, come, Sahaja Yoga will help. If you feel like drinking, you think of Mother, come to us at that time we’ll talk to you, you’ll forget it.” All these things one can talk you see, to that person. But some people will just go and (SOUNDS LIKE -thrash/toss,) “Oh you drink; you’re no good this, that,” that’s not the way. But certain things when they play tricks – they might -then you (SOUNDS LIKE- thrash them) immediately. Your mind is playing trick and we have nothing to do with (INAUDIBLE / you, get out).
Like I told yesterday somebody from Switzerland, I told Warren, he wouldn’t listen to Me. In the beginning he brought his wife here, I told him and I told him very clearly, till we went up to California where she tortured My life, she tortured Me throughout, he would not listen. In a way he was very good but he would said, “Mother, let it be now, you see I’ve married her, this, that.” But as soon as he has left, left America she got her epilepsy and then it came to (INAUDIBLE) Otherwise he would not listen to Me and was siding with her “Oh she is my wife and I have married her, this and that.” But I said, “But what about Sahaja Yoga?”
So fanaticism aggresses others through their attachment to a thing. This is no aggression; this is just civilly, “Get out; we have nothing to do with you”. There is no more connection left to aggress or anything. This is what one should understand that in Sahaja Yoga there is no intention of having any relationship with a person who is not with us.
So to come to the point is that we are not interested in aggressing anyone. Fanaticism aggresses. Anybody who crosses the limit, we do not have anything to do with that person. We ask him to get out because we are not interested in any aggression. That’s not fanaticism. Fanaticism will aggress; he’ll always have interest of aggression. So in Sahaja Yoga you go to a point to see that the person remains with Sahaja Yoga otherwise you have no interest, finished, that person is dead now, is no more living in Sahaja Yoga finished. We have nothing to do, where’re not interested. You see the difference?
And this is what Sahaja Yogi’s don’t understand. When I tell somebody that, “Forget that person for the time being, they have nothing to do with it”. Just don’t talk of their future, what will happen, how they will come back have nothing to do with that. “Get out, we have no interest.” Then out of those who get out of it, they going far away from Sahaja Yoga realize themselves, not all, some, then again they come back. When they come back they accept it. You see we have no interest. Aggressive person always has an interest in aggression. So he won’t allow the mouse to run away, the cat won’t allow. Cat will always have an interest. As far as the cat is alive, it will be having interest but not Sahaja Yoga. “Doesn’t matter get out; we have nothing to do because there is no interest.”
This several fanatics will do. Now this is the very fine difference one should understand. But I’ve seen people when I tell them off some people start sympathizing with them because still they want to aggress you see. The sympathy, behind it, is a camouflage of aggression. Then they can still say that, “You are very bad. You are wrong. You are doing like this. You should not.” I’ve seen people sympathizing with them, I’ve seen. By that sympathy they ruin that another person because that person doesn’t improve in any way. When I’ve said that, “Forget it”, that means, now let that person go. There’s another kind of a treatment it requires, let him go away. I’ve seen people sympathizing. They’ll go and talk to another person, say, “Oh this has happened, that happened.” And the sympathy starts working. And when the sympathy starts working, that person, “Ah I’ve played the trick again, very nice, this, that.”
Is to be understood very well that you have not sympathized with the person but you have really ruined the chances of the person (INAUDIBLE / very much.) The idea of punishment comes from that, in our loss, punishment, jailing, all this is an expression from the same Sahaja Yoga chitta.
So this is what it is. One should understand that our human ideas are very different from that of God. He destroys; actually He cuts them off, nothing, wrathful God. He’s wrathful. That is for the good of the whole that He does it. But there is no aggression. He doesn’t all the time, “Oh you are like this, you are like that, I will help you, I will do.” This is not there. “Get out I’ve nothing to do (COULD BE- with you.) You see the clear cut point? If you understand this, then you’ll not have sympathies with such people, at all, sympathies.
In Sahaja Yoga, either you are here, or not there. Nobody is interested in you if you are going to behave like this. You have to change. For any relationship it is true, then it will work out. The love itself does that. You see, like animals you see, when say a mother is there, mother monkey’s there and a child monkey’s there. When the child is sick, then she’ll be crying, weeping, shouting. She’ll ask help from everyone to help that child. But when he dies, she throws away. The moment she finds its dead, “Finished, now I have nothing to do.” It’s like that.
When you find the person has lost Spirit, finished. If it could be revived, by any chance, it’s all right. But it is so. So if you understand this natural way of life, as the monkey does, you won’t be fanatic by any chance, all right? You follow the point here? Now if you have any questions, you ask Me.
A yogi: If we come across a Sahaja Yogi who has become fanatical, we try to point out this fact to him or immediately cut the ties as You said?
Shri Mataji: You’d better ask them to listen to this tape. They wouldn’t mind it from Me . If there’s any problem, use Me, My tapes, all right? If they say, you just say that, “This is what we feel, we are sorry, we have not interest anymore in you so you please go away. We don’t want to insult you or anything you go away now. We have nothing to do. Just go away, please.”
A yogi: We allow him the time to change or we just completely cut?
Shri Mataji: You see you will immediately know when he tries to play tricks with you. It will be found out. Then you should say, “You go away.” Immediately you’ll find out how that person is trying to play tricks with you. Then you just say, “Please go away. We have nothing more. You see, we cannot do any more with you.” Finished, just cut. You see like this hand till it works all right; when it is dead you have to cut it off if you have to exist.
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi