Workshop with new people. Nirmala Palace – Nightingale Lane Ashram, London (United Kingdom) 1982-08-18

38:10
One thing is that TM people ask too many questions and they take time. So just don’t ask so many questions, just establish your Realization, alright? Put some TM with him, that’s better. [Towards some Yogi] Will you look after him? Alright. Come along, you come this side, he’ll look after you, the deputy director. [Laugh].
How is he now? Just try.
Come along, better that you stay with him, I mean you understand him, he’ll tell you better, he knows all these things, he has gone trough.
38:53

[..39:59 on video]
Shri Mataji: Sit down
Sahaja Yogi: Mother? Where else should I put this?
Shri Mataji: Here. [Shri Mataji shows her Hamsa]
Shri Mataji: Yes. I think most of them need it, a little bit.

Shri Mataji: You see, in Sahaja Yoga, you are not given any mantra or anything. There’s no, nothing like giving you into a big course, like teaching you one after another any mantra, or anything, it’s not like that.
What you have to know: where the Kundalini is, how it is moving, where it is, what is the charka catching and what is the mantra for that. It doesn’t take anything, hardly it takes about a week for you to understand the all thing. But gradually, as you start using it, you become proficient and you how to do it for yourself and for others. There is not much of a thing- like a child, when he comes up a little age, he starts speaking up language, because he has a built-in capacity to create sounds. And he does it. In the same way, once you get it, when you get the cool breeze in you hand, you learn it by using it, you understand it yourself, you become yourself quite proficient. And you will be amazed how fast you learn this. You don’t have to learn it just like a science book or anything, you just start learning, you can: this is charka which is catching because now, say, for example, this charka is catching [fore finger], right side. Now, there’s a mantra for this is of Shri Krishna. Say, this charka is catching [forehead], here, then there’s a mantra of Jesus Christ. Like that, you must know the mantras and the charkas. But the charkas you just know as a, absolutely, a knowledge which is built-in your nerves: you just feel it.
This is- now this gentleman is saying: ” it’s hot here” [left palm]. Alright, what is that? Hot here means what? That’s the Sahasrara, at the left side. First it was, the Sahasrara on the right side. Now, on the left side it’s there. So that means there’s a mantra for that, and that one must be used. If you use that mantra, this will be cleared out. Alright? That is how you have to know. And that’s why I said it takes time for people sometimes to establish, because first you have to know it and then use it.

Shri Mataji: Come along. Have you come for the first time?
Seeker: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: All right, come along. Come along this side.

Shri Mataji: So, it is not a difficult thing, it is not at all a difficult thing to learn it, it’s very easy. You can pick it up in no time, as soon as you start using your hands on other people.

Shri Mataji: Please, be seated. Alright.
[To a Yogi] Just see them, some people come along.

Now these people, say- who are the latest who have come to Sahaja Yoga? Let’s see. The latest ones. Say, those who have come about a month back.
Seeker: Yes.
Shri Mataji: See, he came back, she came back only one month back. And.
Sahaja Yogini: This is his first time.
Seeker: I was here on Monday.
Shri Mataji: How much?
Sahaja Yogini: Ah. Ok, he was here on Monday.
Shri Mataji: Monday, alright. He’s got it.
But you see, [to someone else] Have you been giving vibrations now?
Lady: Yes.
Shri Mataji: In one month, it’s done. So you can imagine. And you know about the charkas now?
Lady: Yes.
Shri Mataji: About the mantras?
Lady: Yes. Not all of them.
Shri Mataji: Yes, you see, that’s it. It’s very simple.
If you pay attention to it, you can do it much faster. There are many people who are here, within a month, one month’s time, they pick up so many things. Many like that, within one month‘s time. [To a Sahaja Yogi:] He’s alright.

Because you become the knowledge. You start feeling it on your fingers, you know this is the charka. If this finger is, say, burning, [left auricular] that means your left heart is catching. If your left heart is catching, then you know because it’s burning! Then, there’s nothing to go to the books or anything to find out, it’s just burning, it’s there. Isn’t it? That means the left heart is catching. Now, only you have to know what [Inaudible] left heart is catching, the decoding only, what does that mean.
Your hands will speak Christ has said, alright? They will speak, I am just recording it. Now you see for self if it’s true or not. What does that mean? Left heart means there’s a problem on the heart: may be, the person is over hard working, he has forgotten about his Spirit. The mantra you have to say is: “I am the Spirit”, for left heart.
It’s so simple. Because you have forgotten about your Spirit, you are more on the right side in the sense, you are more extra- you are an extravert and more attention is outside, not towards your Spirit. Left heart is catching.

You start understanding Sahaja Yoga so well when your vibrations are steady. Now this finger, this is catching [left thumb]. Now this is catching means the person has been to somebody who s unauthorized in spiritual life. Anything, say ISP, you call it IST. Then you have got parapsychology, even psychology. Then you have got other things like all these gurus, false gurus, you can say this aura business- what else is there, just now he was telling.
Sahaja Yogini: Supernatural, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Supernatural and under-natural, and [Big laugh]. All these things, you know, all alternatives you can think of. Anything you can think of, all these things and the books, and the Lams and the Dhamas, and every thing. [Laugh]. Even people who go, sort of adhere to a chuch too much, or adhere to Catholicism again. Because they are not connected with God and they are unauthorized. [Shri Mataji shows her left palm].
But if you have been to a real guru, then immediately I will know. You won’t have this problem and ascent will be very fast if you have been to a real guru. But how many are real these days? In the market, only those who are marketing are they, as I said it: in the market only the buyers and the shopkeepers. It’s a market place now!
So the real gurus are not to be seen, there are, of course I know, there are many real gurus also, but wherever they are, they are not in the market. I am the only person fighting them and telling them off, you see. None of them are willing to come down or to concede to anything, they said these human beings are hopeless. They said: ” twelve years you work Mother, then we’ll come down “. They want me alone to fight the [ordeal?] [Shri Mataji laughs] doesn’t matter. So now, it’s a market place, where there are buyers and they are simple naïve customers. They just put such absurd things like somebody says: “alright, I want to sell a big palace, with this and that, and all that, only you have to deposit 2 thousand pounds.” Alright, people will be quite willing to do: “Oh, what a bargain, let’s pay 2 thousands.” And the palace may belong to the Queen.
If you go there and ask them: “which palace you want to sell?” “This palace. ” And that belongs to the Queen, you see. This is unauthorized. Unauthorized people who have nothing to do with God, who claim that they have something to do with God, which is false, and that’s why they catch on this finger [left thumb]. And what do they do? They use all these techniques; these techniques are called, in Sanskrit language, as “avidya”. ” Avidya” means, non-knowledge, you can say that it’s not knowledge, something anti-knowledge, anti-God, this is anti-God. So for that the mantra is: “Shuddha vidya”, means the pure technique. It’s the mantra : pure technique, it’s the mantra. “Pure” means the one that comes from the Spirit. Now what they are doing [The Sahaja Yogis] is the pure technique because it’s flowing in them. If they are moving their hands, there’s a power flowing through them and they are working it out. It’s not just a, acrobatic thing that is going on.
So the pure knowledge: for example, the way they are raising theses candles now in my presence, and they themselves are Realized souls, it’s working out. So this is all, it’ the pure “vidya” it’s the pure knowledge and the pure technique, and those who have not done this, have gone to such people, they have put their heads before them, kneeled before them, have done something that should not have been done! So this is it.
And that’s how if you catch on this finger, this thumb, left hand, that means a person has been to somebody like that. But, with that, if you have any catch on this Void [on the palm], or Void here in the stomach part- this is left Swaddithana, it’s placed here down below, which moves like that all over, and this becomes right Swaddisthana, this side. Now supposing a person catches all round here, his Void, and all round here.
Seeker: How do you call it?
Shri Mataji: It’s called as the Void, we call it Void. It’s not the Zen Void. But the Void is the crossing point which is, it’s the viscera, it’s the stomach part, where-abdomen you can call it, abdomen part – and this part, if it is catching that means these are the ten principles of the guru. If this is catching, means you have hurt your principle of guru, your principle of a master. That means you have gone to some very wrong master. If this is catching, that means that. Now, just now as they said, his Void is catching. The Kundalini will be wobbling there, you can see it with your own eyes also. You can see the Kundalini just potting [?] – pulsating there, you can see the all stomach going into a trauma. And then you have to say the mantra of the Primordial master. Anyone you can do it you see, Guru Nanaka’s name you can take, Muhammad’s name you can take, all of them are Prophets. Moses’ name, Abraham, all these are there. So if you take their names, the Kundalini can be brought up. You can strengthen that part, then the Kundalini’s pushed up.

So all these so-called Yogas, also like physical yoga. Now, in the physical Yoga, you will catch this finger [right annular], this one [right major] and this finger [left auricular]. This ring finger here and this finger [left auricular]. This is heart, means you have been paying too much attention to your physical thing. Anybody who is working also physically too much can also catch this, plus this [right annular]. Because when you go into action too much, also, as a result of that, the fumes or your actions create your ego. And this is one of the biggest problem of the West you see, they are not aware that they have an ego. But after Realization they start seeing the ballon [floating?] like that [Shri Mataji laughs], they see that and then they come and tell me: “Mother I ‘m catching on my right Agnya” [right side]. It’s a very delicate stuff. You can’t tell anybody: “You have got ego”. They [do really?] have it, you see. So you have to be very careful when you are talking to them. But actually, so many people felt that there is ego in them, so they took to- even people, when they feel they have too much ego they take to alcoholism, because they are frightened of themselves, they can’t just bear, they want to escape that part. So people are quite conscious.

But after Realization, it becomes a complete understanding because you start feeling a little pain sometimes, in this finger [right annular], you feel a pain here and you know that you have got this Mister ego just coming out. So then you know how to twist it and take it out, how to bring it out. So you start understanding yourself and you start understanding others.
I don’t have to tell you, you know yourself.

Now we have certain things, like we use vibrated water for clearing your Void. Now what is vibrated water? It’s nothing that- but these divine vibrations are put into it. And they go and start bombarding that area and try to improve it. We have cured so many people of stomach cancers and all those things with it. Even, we can cure what you call blood cancers something with Sahaja Yoga, so many have been cured. You can cure, you can do it, no problem, you can do it, but, what one has to do [is] to be steadily moving about with Sahaja Yoga.

Now for example, you have a conception about Christ, say for example. Now, that conception my not be the real conception of Christ, may not be, may be. So keep your eyes opened. Now what I say in Sahaja Yoga, you can verify it. But do not deny, first verify.
Supposing you go as a scientist, you have to go and see for yourself, isn’t it? You just deny [?]”no this cannot be true.” Because whatever you know is your own conception.

Get inside alright. Now when you get inside, keep you eyes opened and see for yourself. And then, once you start seeing it, that’s the best way, is knowing, because what you see is trough your vibrated awareness. For example, now you want to ask a question, say, Mother is there God? Just ask a question thrice and you’ll find the vibrations will increase. It’s a fact. But if you ask about T.M., you may get even burning. Vibrations will stop. Better ask about God, so that we have vibrations. [Laughs] [Shri Mataji is making a bandhan].

Relatively, you can understand it, first. Like we had people there in Puna, and we had organized a program and they announced in the paper. And they suddenly discovered that I am not a Brahmin and they got very upset and they said: “You are not a Brahmin.” I mean born Brahmin according o them, as you can be a Realized soul born, how can you be? You can be, but every Brahmin is not a Realized soul at all! On the contrary, some of them are real devils. And so, they wanted to cancel my program. I didn’t know all this, nobody told me.
But then they said that if you cancel now, it’s out in the papers, then every body will know that you are a sort of a –Brahmanic society, which is very dangerous in India as you are a secular state, you see, we are also secular state: we cannot proclaim like that that we are Brahmin society and all that, as you people cannot proclaim that you are a racialist, in the same way. [Laughs] I mean, under law, you cannot, but I mean people can be.

So when, you see, I was- they were meditating all of them, I gave a lecture, then these people who were sitting there, in front of me, started shaking like this [Shri Mataji is shaking] you see. So I said: “why are you shaking?” They could not control themselves. “Why are you shaking so much?” So they said: “Mother, because you are Shakti, you are the Power that’s why we are shaking.” I said: “It’s not that. Others are not shaking, why are you shaking?”
They said: “We are very powerful, that’s why, we have special energies, that’s why we are shaking. “
“And see, these are shaking, this side”, I said. “Just go and ask from where do they come.” And they all had come from lunatic asylum, those who were shaking. So I said: “Now, you understand, why they are shaking and why-” So they said: “Do you mean to say that we are lunatics?” I said: “You are fanatics, if not lunatics.” Just the same. [Laughs]
You see it’s so- then they started, now they are very great disciples of ours, in the sense that they are Sahaja Yogis, they have got all their things done for us, they have given up all that Brahmanic ideas and all that fanaticism. But, it’s sort of a thing you will see yourself what I’m saying comes too.
Now keep your brains intact. Don’t give away to anything, your brains are very important. They understand things and you can see things clearly, what’s happening. Keep your alertness and see for yourself what’s happening.
But supposing, if you use your brain all the time criticizing, because people who go to various things – say for a person who goes to this fat fellow who has taken fifteen [handles?] Roll Royce’s now, they never question him! They never ask him a question: “Why do you need Roll Royce’s?” And when he send about fifteen [?] they starve themselves and send him. They never question him.
But to me, when they come, they’ll question ten times: “Why this?” Because you’re free, I’m happy. You are free to question, but too much questioning is not good, it doesn’t help you.

Because I’m not here doing any business, no business is involved. So, they ask questions and questions and questions about this gentleman who has taken Roll-Royce after Roll-Royce, can you imagine? English young people, can they afford all this? In one year they had to give one, another Roll-Royce to him, fifteen [?] for it. But, when they came from him, where he said: “You must surrender yourself to me, you must do this and you do that”, when they came here and we said that: “You are not to think too much” immediately the all ego that was suppressed came upon me. They said: “Oh, you are doing the same thing to us.” But I said: “For what? I don’t want any Roll-Royce. Not even a bit of it, so why should I do it to you?”
The all ego that was suppressed, you see, they were all mad after him, and one girl who went to India, you see, used to wash his bathroom with her tears and clean with her hair. Can you believe? I mean, just imagine? [Laughs]
No only one, but all kinds of things he used to do with them…..
58:12

2:09.36:…..
Shri Mataji: This Rosicrucian is another thing (Shri Mataji shakes Her head).
Man: They have a lot of knowledge.
Shri Mataji: All very Avidya.
Man: … [unclear]
Shri Mataji: They talk on a mental level.
Man: To a certain extent they teach on a mental level? It no need […] to preach on a spiritual level.
Shri Mataji: They don’t think of that. They don’t think – is a moneymaking proposition again. It’s in a way…
Man: To a certain extent is …
Shri Mataji: It is, it is. Trouble ends up with that.
Man: Trouble is Mother, everybody says this is it, this is the right thing. Everybody …
Shri Mataji (interrupts): That’s true, but you should see yourself, you see, that if somebody talks only on mental level and gives no experience of the spirit. You have to be collectively conscious. Christ has said one thing: ‘You hands must speak!’ Just one ask them. They talk of Christ. Ask them: ‘Are your hands speaking? Are their hands speaking?’ Christ has said, isn’t it? And He said that: ‘I’ll send you a comforter who will make to know your father better.’ Not this knowledge. What’s the use of knowing everything of everything and not about your own father?
Man: That’s quite sure. I do agree with You, Mother.
Shri Mataji: And then, what about your own powers? Do they give you any powers? Do you feel anything? Can you understand anything? Can you do anything? Can you give Realization to anyone?
Man: Something you have to develop yourself through your experimentation and praxis.
Shri Mataji: No, no. What do they develop? You see, what I’m saying, they don’t develop anything. There is not a single person who can say ‘I can give you Self-realization’, isn’t it? In the Rosicrucian. Not a single person. There is not a single guru who says ‚I’ll give you Realization’, not a single guru. That one thing is sure. They talk of it but they never say ‘we’ll give you Self-realization’.
Man: They show you the way, they guid you.
Shri Mataji: Ha?
Man: They will guide you that you can find yourself.
Shri Mataji: Ha? What he says?
Sahaja Yogi: He says that the gurus will guide you so that you can find it yourself.
Shri Mataji (shakes Her head): You see the question is: If you have to find it yourself, you don’t need a guru. They are all using your naiveness, you see, for this. Because you don’t know. If you were an Indian you would known that you have to have an enlightened soul who is a guru to give you realization. But these people can also say that, you see: ‘We don’t believe in gurus’. Some say: ‘We believe in gurus.’ Whether you believe in the enlightened one or not is the point. The interest of an enlightened one is to see that you get your Realization and the guidance they give you is what? Nothing. Just talking about it and talking about it has done since ages. Your forefathers and their forefathers of your fathers had talked and talked and talked. It’s time for hands to talk. All right? This is what it is. Your hands must speak.

Now see, you come to […] I feel it, so we’ll say: ‘Yet is not done’. We don’t say: ‘You have got it’. We don’t say that. We say: ‘It’s not done, it’s not done, it’s not done.’ When it is done, it will be done. See, we cannot say that because you have come here you will have it. Isn’t it, we cant just say. Of course, we’ll work it out. We’ll work it out, you’ll work it out. Let’s see. When it will work out, it will work out. All right? It is like that. It is not that just you become a member of some thing or that you go to a lecture you become a Rosicrucian. How can you become?
Man: […] I could not tell you.
Shri Mataji: That’s what I will tell you. That you must know that you have not become anything. You have been just listening to their acrobats. Intellectual acrobats, you see, it is not that.
Man: I’m listening to everything.
Shri Mataji: What you have to have is to get yourself the power. Your own power of your spirit must manifest. Are you manifesting? Not! You are finished. That should be done, criteria. All right? They may say ‚I’m true, I’m true.’ But who gives you the coffee is the one. If they say: ‘I’ll give you a coffee’ and they just give you an empty cup. Then want you think that: ‘Oh God, this is an empty cup, not a coffee?’ So the prove of the pudding is in the eating of it as they say.
Man: Yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: What powers did you get? You must express your powers. You must, while all this people are saying: ‘We are manifesting’. None of them would say, because they’re not. One gentleman came and told Me: ‘Mother, I’m a self realized person and I’m a twice born.’ I said: ‘All right, you just tell Me where is your Kundalini?’ He said: ‘I don’t know.’ Where is the Kundalini of this person? Where is your blockage? Where is the blockage of this person?’ ‚I don’t know’. Then I say: ‘What’s the use for the twice born. For what?’ See, if I say: ‘There is light in the room’, you should be able to see, na?

Man: Is it really exist. Is it really there?
Shri Mataji: Ha?
Man: Is it really there or is it all illusion?
Shri Mataji: All illusions [Inaudible]. They’re all illusiveness. They are very illusive. They live in illusion, I don’t know why and they end up into something that disaster. I don’t mind if they carry on with the illusion, […] disasters. See now, you have been there, that’s why your Void is caught up. I mean, you will have been realized in no time, because you are a seeker. But because the Void is caught you are taking time, isn’t it. So in a way they have harmed you. Even if you don’t get involved you will get harmed. This is it. That’s why I am very upset with them.
If they want to make money they can be thieves, you see, they can be burglars, that’s easier way to make money, not very difficult. Why to make all this fuss?

Man : He wants to ….Mother, all his chakras are..
Shri Mataji: [Shri Mataji puts Her hand into the sugar to vibrate it]
All right, you keep it here. Did somebody want-
Sahaja Yogi: Somebody wants this?
Shri Mataji: Sugar.
Sahaja Yogi: This is extra sugar for somebody?
Man: All right.
Sahaja Yogi: Any body else with-
Shri Mataji: What’s your name?

Man: Christian.
Shri Mataji: Anything to vibrate?
Better now, think before, but you have to decide about marriage, now, you’re thirty two; when will you marry? Ah? We have to have some great people being born on this earth. Some great souls have to be born. Ah? All right?
Ah, good news, Arneau’s wife is going to have a baby.
[Applause]
How happy they feel, you know! He’s a Swiss gentleman.

I think she came to see here, if you are drown completely or not.
[Shri Mataji tries to open a bottle of oil.]
Sahaja Yogi: It’s open Mother. Lift it.
Shri Mataji: That’s how she came your sister, you see, like a great patron angel.
Sahaja Yogi: They came to see …. enjoy and see what’s happening.
Shri Mataji: No. I don’t know if that is so. How can she enjoy if she has not touched her Spirit? You see, she should be anxious to touch the Spirit? But I think she is not a seeker at all.
Sahaja Yogi: I think she is.
Shri Mataji: She is? You think so? Try to bring her now.
Put her left to right. [Shri Mataji is laughing.]
I wish you luck.
She should, I mean she should really come and enjoy but you know, she was in a very arrogant mood she came here and I could see her.
All right. So it’s over? Can I make a move?
Sahaja Yogi: Still a little more.
Shri Mataji: What you do: you get vibrated for everyone, in a big way, and give it to them if they need it, you see. Because I’ll be moving now out of London.

Shri Mataji: How are you now?
Seeker: All right, all right.
Shri Mataji: Looking better, very much better. That anaemic look has gone now. You don’t look anaemic anymore. You have a Left Nabhi? You have a Left Nabhi problem?
Seeker: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: Also Left Nabhi..
[Shri Mataji blows into the bottle of oil.]
It’s all.
Shri Mataji: Now you don’t feel guilty at all, do you?
Seeker: I find not so ??
[Laughter.]
[Shri Mataji is laughing.]
Shri Mataji: For what? If you had done anything greatly wrong, you could never have got Realization. So why to feel guilty? Just come here. Come.
[Shri Mataji puts some cream on his left Vishuddhi.]
Better now? Ah. Better?
Seeker: Yes.
Shri Mataji: All right? Much better.
All right.

Shri Mataji: How are you? All right?
These are the best lemons [green limes] you see, they suck your vibrations very fast. These are little hybrid, the other ones, these are normal, I think. These are normal, they are very good.
I’m sorry, I have to leave early because it’s already quite late and they must be waiting. All right.
Sunday morning, no- Saturday evening we are going. So Saturday morning, I would like to go and buy some flowers for them or if somebody could go to the flower shop. We can take about three, four boxes with us in the plane.
Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: That would be in the morning.
2:21:04

(2:09:36)

Shri Mataji: This Rosicrucian is another thing (Shri Mataji shakes Her head).

Man: They have a lot of knowledge.

Shri Mataji: All very Avidya.

Man: … [unclear]

Shri Mataji: They talk on a mental level.

Man: To a certain extent they teach on a mental level? It no need […] to preach on a spiritual level.

Shri Mataji: They don’t think of that. They don’t think – is a moneymaking proposition again. It’s in a way…

Man: To a certain extent is …

Shri Mataji: It is, it is. Trouble ends up with that.

Man: Trouble is Mother, everybody says this is it, this is the right thing. Everybody …

Shri Mataji (interrupts): That’s true, but you should see yourself, you see, that if somebody talks only on mental level and gives no experience of the spirit. You have to be collectively conscious. Christ has said one thing: ‘Your hands must speak!’ Just one ask them. They talk of Christ. Ask them: ‘Are your hands speaking? Are their hands speaking?’ Christ has said, isn’t it? And He said that: ‘I’ll send you a comforter who will make to know your father better.’ Not this knowledge. What’s the use of knowing everything of everything and not about your own father?

Man: That’s quite sure. I do agree with You, Mother.

Shri Mataji: And then, what about your own powers? Do they give you any powers? Do you feel anything? Can you understand anything? Can you do anything? Can you give realization to anyone?

Man: Something you have to develop yourself through your experimentation and praxis.

Shri Mataji: No, no. What do they develop? You see, what I’m saying, they don’t develop anything. There is not a single person who can say ‘I can give you self-realization’, isn’t it? In the Rosicrucian. Not a single person. There is not a single guru who says ‚I’ll give you realization’, not a single guru. That one thing is sure. They talk of it but they never say ‘we’ll give you self-realization’.

Man: They show you the way, they guide you.

Shri Mataji: Ha?

Man: They will guide you that you can find yourself.

Shri Mataji: Ha? What he says?

Sahaja Yogi: He says that the gurus will guide you so that you can find at yourself.

Shri Mataji (shakes Her head): You see the question is: If you have to find it yourself you don’t need a guru. They are all using your naiveness, you see, for this. Because you don’t know. If you were an Indian you would know that you have to have an enlightened soul who is a guru to give you realization. But these people can also say that, you see: ‘We don’t believe in gurus’. Some say: ‘We believe in gurus.’ Whether you believe in the enlightened one or not is the point. The interest of an enlightened one is to see that you get your realization and the guidance they give you is what? Nothing. Just talking about it and talking about it has done since ages. Your forefathers and their forefathers of your fathers had talked and talked and talked. It’s time for hands to talk. All right? This is what it is. Your hands must speak.

(2:12:35) Now see, you come to […] I feel it, so we’ll say: ‘Yet is not done’. We don’t say: ‘You have got it’. We don’t say that. We say: ‘It’s not done, it’s not done, it’s not done.’ When it is done, it will be done. See, we cannot say that because you have come here you will have it. Isn’t it, we can’t just say. Of course, we’ll work it out. We’ll work it out, you’ll work it out. Let’s see. When it will work out, it will work out. All right? It is like that. It is not that just you become a member of some thing or that you go to a lecture you become a Rosicrucian. How can you become?

Man: […] I could not tell you.

Shri Mataji: That’s what I will tell you. That you must know that you have not become anything. You have been just listening to their acrobats. Intellectual acrobats, you see, it is not that.

Man: I’m listening to everything.

Shri Mataji: What you have to have is to get yourself the power. Your own power of your spirit must manifest. Are you manifesting? Not! You are finished. That should be done, criteria. All right? They may say ‚I’m true, I’m true.’ But who gives you the coffee is the one. If they say: ‘I’ll give you a coffee’ and they just give you an empty cup. Then want you think that: ‘Oh God, this is an empty cup, not a coffee?’ So the prove of the pudding is in the eating of it as they say.

Man: Yes, Mother.

Shri Mataji: What powers did you get? You must express your powers. You must, while all this people are saying: ‘We are manifesting’. None of them would say, because they’re not. One gentleman came and told Me: ‘Mother, I’m a self-realized person and I’m a twice born.’ I said: ‘All right, you just tell Me where is your Kundalini?’ He said: ‘I don’t know.’ Where is the Kundalini of this person? Where is your blocked? Where is the blocked of this person?’ ‚I don’t know’. Then I say: ‘What’s the use for the twice born. For what?’ See, if I say: ‘There is light in the room’, you should be able to see, na?.

Man: Is it really exist. Is it really there?

Shri Mataji: Ha?

Man: Is it really there or is it all illusion?

Shri Mataji: All illusions (?). They’re all illusiveness. They are very illusive. They live in illusion, I don’t know why and they end up into something that disasters. I don’t mind if they carry on with the illusion, […] disasters. See now, you have been there, that’s why your Void is caught up. I mean, you will have been realized in no time, because you are a seeker. But because the Void is caught you are taking time, isn’t it. So in a way they have harmed you. Even if you don’t get involved you will get harmed. This is it. That’s why I am very upset with them. If they want to make money they can be thieves, you see, they can be burglars, that’s easier way to make money. Not very difficult. […] (2:15.30)