Conversation at Matthias’ apartment, Geneva, 1982-08-21
Shri Mataji: Very powerful, But for this incident and this church? I would have never said all this. I can’t benefit. But it cannot have a…vibrations. [unsure]
Sahaja Yogi: It’s so powerful! [Laughter]
Gregoire: Magda told me that she heard somebody going out saying, “I admire this person for the courage with which She is speaking.” That to speak like that about Swiss bank in the country of Europe.
Shri Mataji: In India all the ministers, even our Prime minister who has made this kind of money have put it in this bank of yours. They must know that they are helping the thugs. It’s a fact. What can you do? I mean, if there is a bank to keep their money, they will have.
Sahaja Yogi: Actually, Mother the whole of economy, very much of the economy of the Geneva is based on that because these people, they travel frequently to Geneva and they stay in hotels, they bring the family. The restaurant make money, the hotel makes money. It’s very much all linked to the prosperity of this city.
Shri Mataji: Very much.
Sahaja Yogi: I remember customers, one of ours, who are [inaudible], who also have black money here. When they came here for Christmas they come for the bank. Not that much to come to our company but for the banks.
Shri Mataji: You see anybody who has white money will never put in the bank, I can tell you. The reason is, it’s in fact Jews. Because Jews are always frightened. You forget about it. And Jews will always, they will not disrespect their money in anything but in the bank because they think anytime they may be ousted from the country.
Sahaja Yogi: So, same thing with [inaudible] she would say yes to this [inaudible].
Shri Mataji: They are the other one. They too have black money but mostly the people who have white money do not put money in the bank, . Because the interest rate that they are getting is very low. Secondly, the money that we put in the bank today is because of inflation. After some time, it’s going to become zero. You are certain.
So, if you have, say, thousand rupees about ten years back, today the value of that thousand rupees is [inaudible].
Instead of, if you put that money into something, investment, into say, some beautiful piece of art or something, that will increase. Even in the house, if you put, it will increase. Anything you put like that it will not decrease, it will increase. House if you do, it’s the best because if you get a house, a house for others or for yourself, even activity and all that by the time it is ten years or so, definitely you will get a much bigger price for the house than you get it normally.
It is stupid to put the money in the bank absolutely stupid, I tell you. In India, if you put money in the bank, after ten years their money has no value and the interest is zero. So, now you will be amazed that the people have taken out money in India and they are putting in the industry. And every time there is inflation or anything, if there is a problem, if there is de-valuation, that’s even worse. If there is devaluation then the money goes out and you don’t know what to do. But if you have a thing in which you have invested your money, the value never goes down, you see, where is the inflation of it? It’s simple economics which I don’t understand.
Those who are putting money in the bank, on the contrary it’s a big headache, I tell you bank. They charge you for using our money in the bank, first of all. Interest rate in England was 18 to twenty pies [if it is intercontinental] when they gave you money. And when we put our money, they take 6 pies. Can you imagine? Locked up money like that.
So, only the black money can be invested. And the black money, it can be looked after because these banks and they charge you money to put their money there. They don’t any you any interest. You have to pay for them to keep your money safe. Can you imagine? This Swiss bank.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, it’s kind of a violence.
Gregoire: No more Mother, it’s no more so.
[Translates into Italian]
Shri Mataji: Say, if you buy some gold ornaments. The prices of that will now triple and you have used them and you have decorated your [inaudible] with them, they have tripled.
Sahaja Yogi: [Speaks in Italian]
Shri Mataji: Another thing they do wrong, the thing becomes antic. So, they may [inaudible] you are [inaudible]
Sahaja Yogi: Gold has reached today four hundred and ten dollars.
Shri Mataji: Dollars?
Sahaja Yogi: Four hundred and ten dollars by now. Men are crazy.
Gregoire: You see, Mother, one day I got an examination at ten o’clock in the morning. So, I woke up at 6 o’clock in Brazil [Brussels?] at seven I go to Bern, I arrived, the examination was at four o’clock in the afternoon. So, I didn’t know what to do. So, I said, “What could I do? I’ll meet my banker. After all, I have to eat. So, I’ll go and see my banker”. Then, I did not know what to tell to this man. After some time, I said, “Why don’t you buy me one kilo of gold?” So, we did it, yes! So, I bought 1 kilo of gold at the time when gold was really low. And now! [Laughter]
Shri Mataji: Rustom was telling me about that one. Rustom told me that I should buy gold on the money of Ashram. But, you see, I had not consulted anyone for such [inaudible].
I did consult Gavin or Diva. [Inaudible] I should have. But sometimes
Gregoire: But it is between you and you, you see. [Unsure]
Shri Mataji: It’s true but these things are wrong. I like to keep it quite this way because otherwise, everybody will start doing in the same way. [inaudible] I found that’s something that doesn’t [inaudible]. Yes, of course, it’s true, there is nothing to worry but [inaudible] it’s not a good example for it.
I should have done.
Gregoire: I don’t know, I read some kind of news, in a serious newspaper, there would be a kind of financial apocalypse in November 1982.
Shri Mataji: I wanted to [inaudible] that.
[Gregoire translates into Italian]
Shri Mataji: Gregoire, how much did it cost you for 1 kilo that time?
Gregoire: 22 500 thousand Swiss Francs. 22,000 swiss grant. Now it is 28 thousand Swiss Francs something like that.
Shri Mataji: Now what is it 22,500 thousand Swiss Francs?
Sahaja Yogi: It’s about six and a half thousand dollars.
Shri Mataji: Six thousands.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, did you have some news about India to say?
Shri Mataji: India? What do you mean?
Sahaja Yogi: These are the questions they were asking in the car, Mother.
Shri Mataji: No. But what about Bombay now? Is that all right now? Is there any news about Bombay?
Sahaja Yogi: No Mother.
Shri Mataji: Just because these horrible things [unsure].
Sahaja Yogi: Mother we should have a nicer car.
Shri Mataji: What?
Sahaja Yogi: We should have a nicer car.
Shri Mataji: We got an austere one?
Sahaja Yogi: He can say anything Mother.
Shri Mataji: Now the first and foremost thing is about land. So, there are so many lands in the offering, that it is not easy to keep their account. We had applied to the government who have very kindly gave us the land, a lot of land at half price. For one acre of land and they are believed to give us a second acre of land and just do it at the same price. We have paid them part of the money. We have not paid them the full money, so far. Because that’s the third land that is offered and it’s the second land that I’m telling. And then there is a third land that is offered to us. Now the first land that is offered to us, we have got the permission, it is our own, it is about seven acres of land, near Bombay, about two hours at the most from Bombay, two hours. How many miles about? 25, 20 miles. In India, it is too much.
Dr Rustom: [Inaudible].
Shri Mataji: Towards? He said towards, I think, Powai [unsure].
Dr Rustom: It is on the highland then.
Shri Mataji: It is not so much on the highland but there is a little brook running. Seven acres of land extends and there are hills behind it. But it’s not, actually, in the place where we are, it’s not in the highland. It’s the little in between lowland and the places are in between as a plateau sort of thing. So, that’s why. And that’s our own.
Now I wanted to start a school in there, in that place, the seven acres of land. A school for Sahaja Yogi children, school for Sahaja Yoga people, school for teachers, school for international children, for boys and girls. That was my idea and that’s how I’ll develop that land. For that school, we need about six, seven lakhs of rupees to complete our multiple pictures. But to at least, do some justice to it, we need four lakhs of rupees, it means how many pounds?
Gregoire: [Translates into Italian]
[Translates into French]
Shri Mataji: Very fast!
Gregoire: Sometimes I lose a little bit my souls between what You say.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Sahaja Yogi: About 25, 000
Shri Mataji: Pounds?
Sahaja Yogi: Pounds.
Shri Mataji: Sure?
Sahaja Yogi: It’s 400,000 rupees. About 25,000 pounds.
[Marie translates into French]
Shri Mataji: But we have another land which I told you about this second land which was given to us. So, if we are to be funny [unsure] and we have to build an ashram there, if we are to, that will cost about at least eight lakhs of rupees altogether.
But it’s a third very beautiful land, that’s why we come here. It’s a very beautiful land which we have got which is about the same distance. It’s on top of a hill. From here, you can see three lakes [Tulsi, Powai, Vihar Lakes] and it is a very ancient land described in the old ancient books in the Treta Yuga.
And very beautiful place, I like the vibrations, very nice. That is the place where we have got absolutely free land for which we don’t have to pay anything of one acre of land. So, they have a nice ashram there.
Whether you have this ashram or that ashram, you’ll have to make out about what is to be done, to take that as four lakhs and this as six lakhs, at least ten lakhs. Minimum of ten lakhs to make the place comfortable.
Just now, you just have got six lakhs that we already [inaudible]. The amount that has come from mister [inaudible].
Gregoire: He’s not?
Shri Mataji: Not rich. Doesn’t matter.
The Indians have nourished for long time a proper vision, they have ways and methods of advertising, this, that. They might be able to collect some more money and I’m sure they’ll be able to start the work now. And within two, three years’ time, we’ll be able to collect the complete money.
Apart from that there is another beautiful piece of land which is about 25 acres. How much [inaudible] you tell that?
Sahaja Yogi: Just half a hectare.
Shri Mataji: Hmm?
Sahaja Yogi: Half a hectare.
Shri Mataji: 4800 square meters.
So, this huge land is available to us near the river which is called by my name, Nira. And it’s very fertile, a good land. And there is a beautiful temple of Narsimha, a very great temple, ancient temple.
Gregoire: Where is it, Mother?
Shri Mataji: It is near Belapur, between- if you just go from Pune to Belapur, on your way. On Tour, I mean, on your way.
Sahaja Yogini: Did we go there, Mother?
Shri Mataji: I beg your pardon?
Sahaja Yogini: Did we go there, on the Tour?
Shri Mataji: Last year, we did pass through that place, if you remember. Those who were with Me last year, you tell others.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Last before that.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: And we saw that ancient temple of Narsimha.
Apart from that, what this land is, it’s very good because this land can be given on rent to you people, you can take it on rent. And [inaudible] you can look after our little garden. For your retirement you can use that for a very normal [unsure] price in the rent, that would be a very normal price. That all can be decided later on, because foreigners in India are not allowed to buy any land, [Sanskrit word]. Otherwise, everybody will buy it out, you see.
So, you can get a – say, a place will work, if I tell you how [inaudible] one chalet or whatever is done. But main thing is for Sahaja Yogis to think that, you see, “Everything belongs to Mother”. And that, “This belongs to me, this belongs to me”, “Mine should be better than yours”, you see, all this competitive is not good. You have to live collectively in a very nice place, we’ll play there whatever it is nice, just to enhance the beauty of Mother’s land. That’s all. It all belongs to Mother. That shows that kind of a feeling, it’s the best way. Because if you also start again that possession to it, then it’s no use.
So that Pravini [Sarasvati] can see how Sahaja Yogis hint a detached, with detached attitude, some place is not for themselves or for their own family, anything but for the Mother. Of course, it will be for the family whenever you will come. But you should not have a sense of possession or, you know, your children might start fighting a legal right against us [unsure] that’s how it goes wrong. And your children should be Realized soul, we have lots like that. If they are not Realized soul, they will not be allowed to stay there. Because we are talking of a new world of new people of new ideas of new dimensions.
So, that land had once a problem which is [inaudible] now
When the fellow gave it to Me, I asked first to buy the land. I told them partly to give. But I said, “The Trust should pay the money”. Better to have it with the Trust, I thought, because Trust will be able to manage better than [inaudible] so. But now the fellow has recalled to say, “I don’t want to sell it to the Trust. I’ll sell it to You”. So, I’m sure my husband will pay that much money perhaps. If not, you can pay on my behalf.
If so, I’m just telling you a plan. Maybe CP. might agree to pay that quantity, it’s all right and that I can own the place. But it’s not your own [unsure], you are not my children, are you? [Inaudible]
Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible]
So, that is what it is. So, let’s see another thing which we have [inaudible] But all these projects, you can only think over when I’ll go to India [inaudible] after three years or so.
But I would say that all Sahaja Yogis must try to save some money for these things. Because supposing tomorrow it is ready and then you want to buy. You know that you must have money to buy. And second to that, I cannot say how much it will be, cost. But is should be minimum of minimum because [inaudible] in India, it’s a cheap thing. And you are not going to make a [inaudible] some sort of things [inaudible].
It will be comfortable but in a rustic place where we’ll have very natural things. It will work out. And it will cost you per year five thousand rupees to ten thousand rupees.
[Conversation about it]
Gregoire: Anyway, it’s very cheap.
Shri Mataji: Very cheap. I mean that’s what they are telling Me today. I don’t know about tomorrow.
Gregoire: Mother all the houses will be build the same way, the same house.
Shri Mataji: We could have a house of three, four varieties. Some could be for a big family, some for other family. And according to what they say, it will start at five thousand rupees to ten thousand rupees. That’s what they told Me.
Gregoire: Very cheap.
Shri Mataji: But those will be mud houses. It’s not in the cement. And there will be maintainer that live here. About a five hundred rupees to a ten thousand rupees per year at the most.
Shri Mataji: How much in dollars?
Sahaja Yogi: Fifty dollars.
Five hundred rupees Mother is fifty dollars.
Gregoire: Mother, I think they should use the same system as the Queen of England. There should be a big mark in front of your house when you come, there is your personal flag. You should Yourself suggest what will be the symbol on your flag. And when You are not there, we would take the flag down. And then the flag would be vibrated and would vibrate the whole area.
Marie: But then everybody will know that Mother is there and She will not have a minute… [laughter]
Sahaja Yogini: The flag should be there all the time.
Shri Mataji: It’s surprising, in my childhood, I had written a poem which was, I don’t know where it’s sprout, but it was, [Hindi] means, on the banks of Nira. Imagine this Nira, in my family, they called Me by shorten Nira, you see. So, this river has the same name as Nira. Just imagine, in my childhood, I’ve written this poem.
Marine, means Maryand and Nira means “water”. And that’s what it is, I mean, I think- and apart from that, my gotra, my father’s gotra is Shandilya. So, that guru, Shandilya, had his ashram just there- that’s the place of Shandilya.
Gregoire: Who is Shandilya?
Shri Mataji: Shandilya was the- one of the gurus of the Realized souls in ancient times. Very ancient. It was about fourteen, fifteen thousand, I think, at the time of Prahlada, when Narasimha, Prahala [unsure]. Of Shalivahana dynasty. For the Shalivahanas, the guru was Shandilya.
So, he had an ashram there and it so happened that when Duba, no- Prahlad who lived near Peshawar and whose father was a devil, rakshasa, but the wife was a saintly lady. Indra went and enticed her [inaudible] and said that he’ll protect her, when she was pregnant. Believing him that he is a good man, she came with Indra to this Shandilya mudi’s place. It’s a mythology.
Gregoire: So, Indra is playing tricks, Mother? OK
Shri Mataji: And that time, he’s brought her to this guru and he stayed there for the night. So, Shandilya told Indra that, “This child whose she is bearing bow, is the one who is responsible for incarnating Shri Vishnu as Narasimha. And you just don’t worry about her. Just leave her alone with me and you go away. And you don’t try to marry her, to save her, because she has to face the ordeal if Vishnu has to come”. Just she stayed over with Shandilya, the guru, till the child got eight years of age. That time, Prahlada used play in that area.
Then he was sent to his father who was a rakshasa, all prepared to fight him. And you know the story of Prahlada, I need not tell now. But then, about three hundred years back, about three hundred years back, they wanted to built a big temple of Narasimha. And the king, one of these Peshwas from Puna, built a beautiful temple of Narsimha. There is also an Adi Shakti, this thing, next to that.
But Vishnu appeared into his dreams.
Gregoire: Of the king?
Shri Mataji: Of the king. And then Prahlada followed him. In the end, he brought Prahlada before him, Vishnu. And he said that, “I have already made a statue of Narasimha with the sand on the river bank. If you go there, you will be able to find such ans such thing, if you find out, there. And then, found that”. And then they brought it there, in the temple. And it is still there in the sand, for so many thousands of years. Very vibrated. On top of the temple, somewhere, God knows from where, there is water flowing and it is coming down. Very surprising! Nobody has been able to locate the source of that water. It’s very vibrated, you see.
When I went to that temple, they discovered that it was Me, I, who was visiting, so, they arranged for for us all kinds of things.
And across the river is this land. My wise Duna’s brother-in-law wants to give it to Me, because it was taken away by government as surplus land. And suddenly after his Realization, the government said that, “This is your land. By mistake, we have taken”. This is the history that in India your land, if they take it, they don’t return, even this much. So, he was amazed how he got the land free, I mean back. So, he started giving us these twenty-five acres of land. But then, when I gave it to our Trust, you see, the Trust people were rather hard on him, I must say. But he is willing to give it to Me, so doesn’t matter. All right?
And now there are three more lands, you see, offered in Delhi. Delhi people have got money to buy those. So, that’s not yet a headache.
Sahaja Yogi: May is will never be a headache, Mother.
Shri Mataji: What?
Sahaja Yogi: May is will never be a headache.
Sahaja Yogini: Could we go there for someone who is without children.
Shri Mataji: Of course! Why not?
Sahaja Yogini: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no. You see, Bombay ashram, we did for you people only. I am not going to allow Bombay people to stay there.
Marie: Can we work there?
Gregoire: Will You stay there?
Shri Mataji: No, Gregoire. I don’t know where I’ll be. But I’ll be staying all over Bombay here and another there, and another there [unsure]. I can’t stay much but I’ll be moving about. But at least in Bombay, three months. In one of the ashrams, three months, could be. In [January], three months I would be in one of the ashrams. And the rest of the time, if I am still moving about, I’ll have to come to Switzerland.
Are we not going to have an ashram in Switzerland also?
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, one ashram in Switzerland will cost as much as all ashrams in India.
Shri Mataji: Don’t buy, just start on rent. Just start it on rent, you see. Take a small piece of land and rent it. And all of you can stay there paying the rent.
[Inaudible], then we might get an ashram as they got it in France.
Gregoire: Everything is possible.
Shri Mataji: Just desire and you’ll have it.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Marie: Mother, we are going to need another ashram.
Shri Mataji: Yes, have it.
For [inaudible], with the desire, you’ll have another one. In a wealthy [unsure] city, you need money to buy an ashram.
Shri Mataji: Because suddenly we found out that we can have a property in England, for so many years, they wouldn’t rent it either. So, it could be. English are very fortunate.
Gregoire: And it is a very nice country to have an ashram Mother.
Shri Mataji: But they are very fortunate also. They have such a business, they pay [inaudible], have you seen that?
Gregoire: Yes, in London.
Shri Mataji: They are very fortunate. They had big, big hotels to live in. They had for Me, they had for Me. Now they have a Nightingale Lane and God knows what there are going to have next.
Sahaja Yogini: Maybe Birmingham Palace.
Shri Mataji: God knows. Maybe Birmingham Palace is good.
Gregoire: Not very nice Mother.
Shri Mataji: Our Brighton people have got an ashram over there, they bought it. You know that?
Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible]. Vibrations are splendid there
Shri Mataji: You see.
Gregoire: So, Mother, we need an ashram in Rome and in Switzerland.
Marie: And in New York.
Shri Mataji: Yes, in New York. But now, Rome is impossible.
[Unclear conversation between Sahaja Yogis]