The Conception of Love, Talk to Yogis, 15 September 1982, London, United Kingdom

So once and for all I want everyone to understand the conception of true love in Sahaja Yoga. All right? So it is not that I am trying in any way to persuade you, in no way, but I want to know certain things, what happens, what is the situation, why it happens. Because as I told you, I am no good at human beings, I am really puzzled at them. So whatever questions I ask, you answer them absolutely honestly, all right? Because it’s for My knowledge that I’m asking, all right? But nothing, to, in any way, I don’t want to pressurise you in any way, but just to understand what’s the problem is. And then I’ll give you the answer.  First of all, the question is, ‘Are you a seeker?’ 

Sahaja Yogini: I think so, yes, Mother.

You have been seeking before also? All right. Then the second point is, you have been seeking and you found in Sahaja Yoga that there is some truth, is it?

Now you didn’t come to Sahaja Yoga to marry anyone?

Sahaja Yogini: Not originally, Mother.

Not to find somebody for your marriage?  This was never your idea?

Sahaja Yogini: No, Mother. Not at the beginning. Because I was in India, Mother.

So you had no idea about this? Now so, when you met Matthias, or whatever it is, and you liked him and you said that you would like to marry him it’s all right, I believed you that you really loved him and you want to marry him for true love, all right? That’s what I believed. And I asked Matthias, I didn’t feel that he was so much infatuated  that was my opinion about you, because he wanted to postpone it, but then he said all right, if she, because you said you will marry someone else, you see if he doesn’t marry you. He said all right. now the thing is, if you truly love him  then the conception of love that resides in your mind, is it a romantic fantasy, is it a romantic fantasy?

Sahaja Yogini: Probably, Mother. To begin with. Not anymore.

All right. Now, you were clinging on to him, in India the whole time, in the presence of the villagers and all that. Now you must know that that is not done in India at all, it’s a shock, all right? But you did it. That time the explanation came to Me that you are doing it because you are feeling insecure. But what about before your marriage, when you were in India, were you doing the same to someone else? Like that, all through?

Sahaja Yogini:  No, Mother.

I’m just asking you plainly because I want to understand how your mind is working. Before marriage, what do the girls do?  That suddenly when they get the husband, they go crazy, cling onto them. On the street, you meet some boy, they are clinging on to him, you see, it’s so stupid to do it, I mean I just don’t understand. Even if you are insecure you need not be paranoid. They way they are behaving, it looks like they are paranoid.

Sahaja Yogini:  OK Mother. We want people to know, that we are together, that we talk together;

But when it was told to you that in India, it will be disparaging against you, it will go against your reputation, it’s not good, they think it is inauspicious, they are shocked, still then you wouldn’t give up the thing. Even in Nagpur, the same thing happened. My family people were shocked, they are Sahaja Yogis.  You have certain norms. The thing is, that was the first phase of it which I couldn’t understand. But when I was telling you that it is bad, it is not good for your reputation. I mean, it was not even ego-pampering. I would say, that an Indian girl, if she marries, then for her ego-pampering at least she would try to create an image of herself which would be revered or respected and not some sort of a funny image which [unclear] . 

I don’t know how far the ego has reached in the Western countries, that actually to behave decently with decorum, with the forms in which that country lives.  If you do that way it’s better to behave in a way that’s absurd.  So this was one thing that was really very puzzling to Me. First of all, that when I told you a simple thing, it’s for your own image and for the image of Matthias, all right?  This was one point which you have to explain to Me later on. Now the second point which I would like to ask you, that if you loved Matthias, then don’t you think his image is important, also, and that you must in true love, how can you be so demanding, that you don’t give him any space to grow himself, that you should always stagger around with him and become a load on him? Is it proper? You think so? In true love, you must see. I mean I would love to see you or anyone of you, to grow in your own way, in a special way, as Sahaja Yogis should grow, isn’t it? But if I try to overpower you all the time and sort of do not allow you to grow and just make you tag around Me, then how will you grow? So first of all, I don’t understand that you must have some idea about true love. What do give to your husband then, I would like to know?  No space to develop himself.  And the space of protection and love is the one where he feels that you like it, you like the way he is growing in Sahaja Yoga. You married him because only for Sahaja Yoga, because you are a Sahaja Yogi. But otherwise he could have married anyone, but he married you only for Sahaja Yoga and for Sahaja Yogis. And you never saw the point that you are destroying his complete image by not allowing him to do Sahaja Yoga, not allowing him to grow. This is not true love, this is possessiveness. This is absolute possessiveness and selfishness, in a way, that you do not see that the man who is so great, to Me he is very great, but you can destroy him completely, if you want you can destroy all his greatness and just make him a little cat running around, if you want you can do it, you can do it. It’s very simple if you want to do it, but My idea about him is that he is a man with a potential, with such a leadership, such a great man and My love for him is this, that let him grow so much so that he feels confident, and that’s why I said all right, if he marries, he’ll have a wife who will give a kind of protective bandhan to the areas and the spaces where he moves.  Instead of that, wherever he tries to move, you created a problem. The image of Matthias was ruined completely by your presence. This you must know. All the Sahaja Yogis got frightened of him, I don’t know what you screwed into his head against Sahaja Yogis. But whatever you talk to Sahaja Yogis now, Sahaja Yogis are a part and parcel of him. You must know think, first of all, when you were not his wife, he was the one who was organising all these people, he was the one who had become a Sahaja Yogi. In Sahaja Yoga he found his expression and manifestation. Otherwise, he told Me himself that ‘what was I, Mother, I was nothing’.  After coming to Sahaja Yoga, I see my potential, I see my heights, where I can go. He himself told me just before and now what I find that he became dwarfed down, he became a small man, he became frightened of everybody else. When you were not there, he was just blooming like a flower, everybody came to him, you see. Otherwise they were too shy. And whenever they talked to his face again they became morose. So as a wife if you really truly love him then how is it you could not see that you were destroying his image one by one, whatever he was? Could you see that?

Sahaja Yogini: I can now, Mother.

Now you can. But whenever I talk to you, you say the same thing, and you go back to the same. This is the problem. Last time you came, I told you that one day will come, he will kick you out. He will not look at you. Then you will realise that you are destroying him completely. See when you are truly in love with somebody, then you don’t love him as an imaginary thing, or some sort of a fantasy or some sort of a romanticism or just holding hands together, or making him your slave. No, that’s not the way. The love should make others grow because it’s a living force, we should make the other person flower more. If a person when he marries, I mean, that’s the criteria we have, for a good wife. If the circle of his friends increases, then it’s a good marriage. If it decreases, then it’s a bad marriage, it’s a wrong marriage, it’s a nonsense. And that is exactly what has happened. I mean, whatever you desired, I worked out, you know in your wedding, you didn’t want these horrible people to come down all right, they were neutralised. You remember how miraculously it all worked out but all that you forgot, you just thought, I don’t know what you thought of, that your possessiveness is the most important thing that you must somehow or other cling on to him and make him feel absolutely rested all the time by putting all your problems upon him. What are your problems? I don’t know, what problems do you have? I never thought that you had problems. On the contrary, poor fellow, he comes from Poland, he had a very bad past and he has suffered, he has gone through it, he is still encouraging and taking up his loads to try to put loads on him. Then all his friends, those who were there, any one of them they got lost, they didn’t know what had happened to him, he was such a changed person. Apart from that, this you did, I don’t know why, why, because if it is true, you don’t want him to grow, you want him to become a dwarf? On the contrary, see, he bought you a car, he got a big flat for you, just to please you, he went into big expense, you know that, just to please you. And what did you do for him? It was too much expense for him, to do all that. I mean, what is your attitude towards it, what is it? What made you do that, just to destroy him like that? 

Now see, for example, in My husband’s office, I go and talk in a way that spoils his image in the office, I make everybody his enemy, I try to say things which he tells me in privacy or something, to others, or if I go and frighten other people, what will I be? I will be his enemy, not his wife. I will be his first enemy, isn’t it? And that’s what you tried to be, if you see clearly, that’s what you did to him. And what did he do wrong to you? That I would like to know. What made you do all this to him, to give him this kind of punishment. After all, what did he do, he bought you a car. I found out everything, how was he to you, because I thought that maybe that first girl, that Miriam, he didn’t like, and he wouldn’t like to look at her and all that. And in a way he was a little, suddenly broken off from her, but there was a reason because he thought she was openly against Sahaja Yoga, but that was much better than this situation. Here he thought you to be a great Sahaja Yogini, he marries you, he finds a snake coming out, biting him everywhere. See he is not alone, he is a part and parcel of the whole. You try to cut him short like that. Though you see he might have tried to be very friendly and some people told Me that it was too much of a romanticism going on, morning till evening, you used to get to him in the house and all this, like that. This is all imaginary, this is all transitory. He is not going to be satisfied with you. Otherwise he is going to be destroyed, completely. So why, why is it that that you did it? Why did you try to destroy his image? You are an intelligent girl otherwise. Could you not see that?

Sahaja Yogini: Not at the time, Mother.

Why couldn’t you see that, that you were exactly doing what you should not have done. Say [unclear] now, for my household, I have to invite people. I have to work very hard. I cook the best food that I can for his guests so that they should be happy, so that they have respect for him. Those who meet Me always get greater attachment to him. Always, it is so, on the contrary, if I behave like you, I mean he would not be a successful man at all. You see, a wife is the person who has to be kind and nice, more than the man is. On the contrary, if the man is angry with someone it is the woman who says ‘it’s all right, it’s all right, don’t do, take it easy’. If she goes on cutting every person, if I could understand any woman who tried to sort of make him infidel to you, take away his attention from you as a wife, as a wife, then I can understand. But there was no such a thing. I mean, I do not find that. He is a very single-minded person. So why did you destroy him? This was what, what was the thing, what was happening in your mind? How could you, how could you not see that you are destroying him bit by bit? He didn’t destroy your [unclear]  He wanted to build you up. I mean I can understand also that if he was destroying your image, you were destroying his. But I just can’t understand when he is building you up, why were you destroying him every minute? When you married in Sahaja Yoga? If you had married earlier, I can even understand, but you married in Sahaja Yoga. With the full idea that he is a Sahaja Yogi and that Sahaja Yoga is his life. He himself told Me, ‘I was nothing, Mother, it is Sahaja Yoga who has given me some meaning of Life to me’. So I want to know, what happens, what happens, it’s a miracle. What about your mother, does she destroy all the relations of your father? Does she?

Sahaja Yogini: I don’t think she did a very good job. I don’t think she did very well.

She did not do well. You see, you were yourself, a daughter, a step-daughter, she did not do it to you, even, normally people do that, normally. But this is unbelievable, that every person who came close to you, everyone who came close to you, you tried to say something to that person that the person should just disappear and should feel hurt, and should feel bad. Every one of them has told Me that they are frightened of you coming back, they don’t know how you will be placed, like a witch you are, and you will be just going after them, again, and you will start telling stories here and there between people and, I mean they are so frightened of you, you can’t imagine. They say, ‘we don’t know how she is placed’. I had told you in the beginning, I didn’t know you were a Gemini, if I had known, I would not have allowed you to marry Matthias. I know Gemini are a headache, they are a headache. But you can get over all your science, everything, if you are a Sahaja Yogi. People have gone out of it. We have such beautiful Geminis with us, that you can’t imagine that they are Geminis, I can’t believe it, they just got out of it, completely. Danya, she is such a young girl, she is a Gemini, her Mother Magda is a Gemini, Pat, who is the wife of David Prole, she is a Gemini. Can you believe, these three persons, they are My solid figures, absolutely, and the way they are building up their husbands, you see? David Prole has come up so much. Her husband has come up so much. You see, that’s the sign of a Sahaja Yogi, if he destroys the partner then he is not a Sahaja Yogi by any chance. Have patience and patience, but just you tell Me why did you destroy him? Why? Did he do any wrong to you? Was he is any way missing? You just confess to Me whatever it is because I would like to know your side. What was lacking? But what was it? But you were very unfair. How could you forgive yourself? This is the thing, I just don’t understand human beings, how can you, if I am insincere with you all right, if I am insincere with you, I know I am insincere, I have to be insincere, and I have to be this way, and then I don’t bother about you. But you didn’t want to do it, isn’t it, or you wanted to destroy him? See the whole thing is, you have no sense of true love at all. It’s a very possessive, selfish, very wrong type of love which will be the basis of all the decadence, I think. Decadence of everything, because it starts, gradually, see, dropping like a leprosy, it’s like a leprosy, I think, that eats you off, I can’t understand, why should a wife, any wife, try to destroy the image of the husband who is coming up so well? It is beyond Me.

I can understand you have some ambitions about him, like you see, Mao’s wife had some ambitions, or say some other political leader’s wife had some other ambitions or something. We can understand that. Or if you loved somebody else I can understand, or if you, I mean there must be some reason for doing something. I just cannot understand psychologically also, how is it possible for no rhyme and reason that all the time what you did is to destroy all the relationships between Sahaja Yogis and him, the complete Sahaja Yoga framework which I had within, you tried to cut it one by one. There is another [unclear] which I know, which has come up now before us and that’s why people are quite worried about you going back there. Now you just tell Me, if you can give Me any valid reason for this kind of a thing, then I will understand in the future because I really can’t understand you, I just can’t understand you. This is not the first time I am telling you. Did I talk to you today? I have been telling you, you had a problem, all right, that was cured. If I had no love for you I would not have cured you. I cured you for that. Again I told you, be careful, this is what is happening. How many times I have told you, that this is what is happening, what is the need. Right from India you started misbehaving. You are the only one who has misbehaved like this. On top of that you used to cry and weep and make a big show out of it. Then you told people, oh, you can’t live with your husband if you are in Sahaja Yoga! Yes! People, how will they know, if they have not been to India? All the stories you told about India to them, that this happened, that happened. Then you told people, now I have become now a medium, everybody will become a medium. Frightening them. Talking about people, why should you be so petty-levelled? You just tried to talk of petty things of life, here I am to give you something so great. And you couldn’t see, your husband can’t live with pettiness, can’t you see, clearly, he doesn’t know, he is too big a man to see pettiness in you. And while you deal on petty levels, even a person who lives with you can see it clearly. That you are very tricky and you play around with him and create an aura like that all the time, that you are very, very insecure. What are you insecure about, I would like to know? You better find out, I’m telling you, you better tell Me what you are insecure about. Look at it, just see for yourself and tell Me, what are you insecure about? No, you just tell Me, you just think before, after your marriage, what made you so insecure suddenly? But how can you make [unclear] insecure. 

It is the superego that makes you insecure, how can ego make you, ego was the dominating thing, but did you take a plea like that? Then if it was not, then what made you feel that you were insecure? That you were, that your ego was just playing these tricks, that you are insecure? But there is no insecurity otherwise, isn’t it? It’s a very complicated case. You are so happily married, such a nice man he is, he’s a left-sided person. I thought you were a right-sided person and you will give him all the support that is needed, you will help him. And otherwise you are very sweet to talk to. And in your sweetness you say things, I was amazed how you could devise these things to say. Now this is not true love, I tell you. This is not true love at all. Actually, you do not love him, this is the conclusion I have reached. I mean, love has an instinct, it tells you, it is the knowledge. If you love someone, you know each and every thing about that man. And I do not think you love him, really, it is just possessiveness, it is just an idea, oh, I must have a husband like this he should be, under my thumb. But it is not true love of any kind, because love sacrifices. Love is the most enjoyable thing, because if you are playing with some sort of an image of your own, that you will be a woman sitting on his head, or something like that, it can never give you joy, never happiness, if you try to dominate someone, it will never give you happiness. This is not true love, this is the conclusion I have reached. Now, you tell Me, is it true love or not? What makes you think that way?

Supposing a mother is destroying the child all the time, will you call it a true love between a mother and child because only happened to be the child of the mother?

Sahaja Yogini: I didn’t think at the time, Mother, that I was destroying him.

It is simple, you just loved yourself. You created an image that you are insecure, which you just now said, all right? Now, you are trying to overpower him, that means you are using him as an instrument to play with your ego. Poor man, he himself is a left-sided fellow. And then, now you are saying that you didn’t understand. But how did you understand that you loved him? What made you think that you loved him? No, I understand when you are newly married, I am not against that, you do feel more attached to a person, you want to live with that person and all that, but in a decent and a decorous way, not indecent type. I mean, I don’t expect Sahaja Yogis to be cheap type people. But whatever it is, you see, supposing he has a job. He told me that, some things, Mother, I must tell You, which was also something really not worth even thinking of, but I was amazed that he just brought it to My, this thing that, Mother, she was married to me, I had to meet my other friends, business friends. He wanted her to meet them but she would not give up her rustic ways and she wouldn’t take to the ways that I would like her to know how to behave, or things like that, sometimes she would sit in a way that may not be all right and this, so I said, why didn’t you tell her? He said, but she did the way she wanted to do everything, in a rustic way, she’s a rustic girl and she wouldn’t get little sophistication that was needed in the society of my friends. This was what he told. So I understand, I like if you are a rustic person, you must keep your personality, this, but if your husband has to deal with friends, again, in his business also, I mean I am ‘Avadhuta’, I am not bothered about anything, even if I have a torn sari it makes no difference, if I wear anything, it doesn’t matter to Me, but only because of My husband I have to dress up well. Because of him, I have to use all these things, I have to dress well, I just do it because I don’t want him to have an image of a wife who is a some sort of a hippie, going around. This is what he told me, even about his official friends, exactly he told Me this. 

Now this is what happens in all directions, this has happened. Not only with Sahaja Yogis, and poor fellow, he was so dominated and he felt that, you see, because he is denied one girl perhaps he should be kind. You see, this idea about kindness and all that, it is being Polish, they think you have to be kind to people, because they were oppressed by Germans so they are conscious that we should not become like Germans, you see. And in that sweetness, you see, I think he really spoilt you in a way. That also you never realised, that in the presence of his friends, how you were behaving towards his official friends. When I sit down, when resting, so you could not see the point. This is it, a woman will [unclear]. 

For example, I was married to a man who was about two thousand miles away from My house, where I lived. In the society where I lived, Maharashtrian society, it’s where they don’t even cover their heads. But in my husband’s place they have to cover the face, also. I did everything, just to please them, just to keep them happy. Because my husband is not alone, his family is with him. All his people are with him. His family is that of Sahaja Yogis, and also his business is important. And he perhaps must have thought you will never listen to him or you will not like it, so he might not have said it to you also so clearly, but every intelligent woman must see that it is not only you as a hanging on the string [unclear] who is loved. What is loved is the whole of you. But I must say he has true love for you. He has true love, and this is the only thing that makes me really very unhappy, that such a wasted love it is, such a wasted love. He has true love and that makes it even worse, because supposing you go back there and you try to play th]e same tricks then what will happen to him? Think of it, what will happen to others? Because anything he might be correcting you, I don’t know what is my conclusion, you must be jumping on him for that, you must be quarrelling, why did you say so, all those things. Must be. I know the ego of English people, they have to learn a lot from others also, like I would say definitely, people in Geneva are much more humble and sophisticated. No doubt about it, isn’t it, Gavin? You go to any shop, everybody says ‘Good morning, Madam’, I got a fright actually when they started saying too much ‘Good morning’, I said ‘what are they up to?’ I just couldn’t understand, because here nobody would say ‘Good morning’. You go and talk to any shopkeeper, he talks to you as if he is at least if not anything, Pancham George born again on this earth. That’s George the fifth in Indian language, we call him ‘Pancham George’, means ego personified. And this is the problem, there is no mannerism in this ego but they are very sophisticated and whatever they do, there is a kind of a special, subtle level of expression which is very delicate, which of course, the British don’t have, you see, they are more busy with the swords and not with the knives, you see. So in everything, you see, they are little gross type, so there is no harm in learning good things from them. The way he dresses up, isn’t it, Gavin? It’s a smart fellow, you see, even in the dressing and all that. I think you need a little training, it’s all right, doesn’t matter, if you have to go above him as a lady, he’s a big manager of a show and all that, then you must dress up that way, you must learn to mould yourself that way, that you behave in a way that is ladylike. On the contrary the way you were behaving in India was very ridiculous. I mean, people would not like to see your face again.  This is the [unclear] I told you what the wife said, that ‘what an inauspicious person you brought here, we just can’t bear to see her, and everything is going wrong, we are not getting any seats or any reservations of rooms because of this woman who has come, who is so inauspicious’. 

This is the thing, we call it ‘bhadrakali’. Bhadra is auspicious, Bhadra is the one who grounds it to pieces, that’s what he told, that’s a general term they use. She has put all the auspiciousness, she is grounded completely, in the sense that she has made them into pieces. You see when we do that, use that ‘dhur’ [?], you see where we grind the wheat, that’s known as ‘dhur’, and ‘dhur’ and that means that is what they are doing, is the auspiciousness is completely shattered by this lady. And I didn’t know what to say, and I just laughed and he said, ‘Mother, what are you laughing, I have got tears in my eyes, can you not send this woman away, do something about it, please tell her’. Only thing is, he was just requesting Me that somehow see that this woman goes away. ‘We don’t want to see her face’. And when I told you at least in Vaitarna you started to cry a lot and make a fuss out of it. You were an uncontrollable person, always got into tantrums. I am sure you must be doing some such tricks with him also. When I could not control you, how can he control? I am the one who controls so many mad people. He could not control, you did what you wanted to do. I told him not to talk to you so you went round telling everybody, ‘just see, I can’t talk to my husband’. 

So Sahaja Yoga is a thing to be understood, is not for the marriage. Marriage is for Sahaja Yoga. And I do not know if you are that petty, and if you are that small-minded. You can never see the depths and the greatness of Sahaja Yoga and what your husband is. These two things you have to see in mind, that you have to grow to understand and visualise the greatness of Sahaja Yoga. You could have married somebody else, would have been much better, that would have been a thousand times better than marrying this poor soul, that is Matthias. It would have been really so much better. I made a mistake, Myself, I think by not understanding. Because I don’t know you even, I could not understand when you came as a Sahaja Yogini, why will you try to destroy his image as a Sahaja Yogi? But this is very true of all these Western women. In a way they do not understand that the husband is their decoration and if you make a husband a rat under your feet, then you have no position also, you are not, he is not called as Mr, with the name of the lady, like Mr Susan, he will be called. You will be called as Mrs Matthias, so if you have a rat under your feet who is your husband, what will be lesser than that? That’s what it is, everybody is frightened of you. And even before coming they were saying ‘Mother, Mattias is so much changed, so much better, and we hope he keeps it up’. They didn’t say ‘don’t send her back’ but in a way suggesting. And then Matthias rang me up the other day and I said, ‘Matthias, what happened, where did you go? How is it that you are catching so badly? He said, ‘Mother, I had a talk with Susanna’. Just imagine, talking to you he was so ruined. So you better tell Me what are your plans. You better tell Me now. I would like to know what are your plans. You tell Me your opinion about Sahaja Yoga, and about Matthias, and what you want to do. You said you are a seeker. Right? Then what are you seeking? In all these pursuits, did you seek your Spirit? That you agree, you did not seek your Spirit. So it was nothing but selfish seeking, all right? But now, what do you say about it now, in future?

But how will you do it? How will you change yourself? Is it only because you want to go back to Matthias? Supposing you don’t go to Matthias and if you have to do Sahaja Yoga somewhere else, would you like to do it? Shall we try it that way for some time? I understand you have some, you are possessed and you had this, your grandmother, you are working on that, but to pray to that extent, you know? It’s not good, isn’t it? It cannot be only possession, there is some sort of a thing in you also, some fault lying in you, otherwise possession can’t work to that extent. And it’s a very bad example for all other Sahaja Yogis, this is the biggest problem we are facing. You have done all these things, I feel in my own forgiveness, you see I might, we’ll work it out for some time, that you forget about him and I’ll send you somewhere where you can work for Sahaja Yoga.

Sahaja Yogini: I would love to go back to Matthias sometime, I would try my best to be a real Indian wife.

No, no, no, what I am saying is let’s try something else. You have tried that, you see, this is the problem is, because everybody is frightened of you there and if I send you back, already they are in a big shock with something else. We have had another shock from someone else you see and it is to such an extent they are frightened of you that whatever has happened in Geneva, one of them remarked, maybe Susan’s fault. Can you imagine? They are good people but they are so frightened of you. So I would say, why not for some time, after all, doesn’t matter, you should go and show your marriage as a Sahaja Yogini, then also Matthias will be all right. He is also nervous, quite nervous, I must tell you. Let’s see this way, how you work it out. Should we? Now, when it’s an advanced case then you cannot, but I would just say that you forget about Matthias for the time being. He is very nervous, naturally, and also all the Sahaja Yogis are much worse, much worse, because he thinks that, you see, you have a way of just getting round it and he can see how he was destroyed, he can see that. He saw it very clearly, and he told Me, ‘I am so happy now, Mother, really very happy’. He was furious with you that day, this I can see Myself, very happy. So forget about Matthias, think you have not met him at all for the time being, let’s see, work it out. You see, by this, whatever are deposits in you may disappear. And let’s see how you work it out. You see, how you deal with others and how you talk to the other Sahaja Yogis. Let us send you somewhere else where you can work it out. Where would you like to go? Gavin, don’t you think so?  

Now, you see, we have people I would say, many like this kind, but not to this extent. This is the last word. I hope there won’t be anybody higher than this. Because I won’t be able to deal. It’s horrifying, horrifying, I can’t believe it because I am here, just to do good to you. To the whole humanity, to work morning till evening. I am 24 hours at your command. Whatever you say I try to do. To help you, so that you feel all right, confident, secure with your human problems. And then suddenly, you jump on Me like this from the back side. You see it is very dangerous. I don’t know, even a little more in the ship can cause the ship to sink. And I don’t know who are these people, like Judas it is. I get so frightened of such people who don’t [unclear]. And then the whole thing becomes so hateful to a person, you cannot imagine. Gregoire’s mother was the same style, I would say, very much. She is also a Gemini, for your information. I did everything for her, you see. First she wanted to destroy her husband, she did everything, she destroyed herself, she wanted to have a divorce. She was going for a divorce, because her husband discovered her. I said, all right, if you want you can have a divorce. Everything she wanted, I said all right, go ahead. Gregoire told Me, ‘Mother, have nothing to do with her, she is a horrid woman’, this thing, that thing. Now what she has done, she is the one who has played the trick, and you must read Gregoire’s letter to understand how far hatred can go. How can people speak [aside: can you go on my table, there is Gregoire’s letter, can you bring it to Me. I would like to switch off.]

Until they are Sahaja Yogis, I have decided not to marry any half-baked ones, unless and until they have proved their worth. I don’t think Adi Shakti should really witness any such weddings and then feel that what, I really cheapened Myself, see? So it is better not to go into such marriages, which has no meaning, which is completely destroyed. So first the Sahaja Yogis must prove themselves, their sense of responsibility, their understanding. And one has to feel responsible, that you are doing God’s work and His wrath will be on you, I mean people who are responsible are not to be frightened about His wrath at all, there is no need to tell them about it. But those who are not yet responsible may come up  with the idea that, to be responsible is important. But fear can never make you really responsible, never, it’s never fear but is the joy of being responsible. If anybody does it under pressure or under any persuasion or any compulsion, that won’t be Sahaj. Sahaj means it’s done as if it’s your own, as if responsibility is part and parcel of your life, then only it should be done. If it is compelled to you because what will Mother say, what  Matthias will say, what others will say, nothing! I have to enjoy my responsibility as a Sahaja Yogi. You have to come up like that, if you come up like that, then only you will forgive yourself, also there is another danger that you may not forgive yourself because facing yourself can be very dangerous, so this is one of the things you have to do. Now the worst thing you have done is to get pregnant at this time because the child will suffer, whatever is going in your mind will have an effect on the child. I am rather worried about the child. I told Matthias that I will give you a realised soul. If it’s a realised soul it will suffer, if it is not, it may have other complications. So this is another problem you have created for Me, really, this is a greater problem. You were not in a condition to have a baby. It was very low. And I don’t know how we managed it, because you also had breast cancer, which is cured now, it is all right but how will you nurse the baby? With a breast like that? Will it be all right? Because hardly any time has passed, I mean, I didn’t want to tell you, I thought you were intelligent enough to understand that you should not have a baby for some time. Any doctor would tell you that. Because you had a problem. So it’s not fair to the baby. You must get rid of your possessions, it’s very important, all these possessions are no good. They can create lots of problems. Recently I have discovered, of course, I knew how cancer is caused, but I have discovered that if you have a sex relationship with a woman who is suffering from possessions, you get a very serious disease called multiple sclerosis. All the three cases I have seen of multiple sclerosis had wives or husbands who were possessed. It’s very serious. You see, as Sahaja Yogis we know much more than others know and we should be cautious, we should be careful. We must create children who are healthy. Like Peter Pearce wanted to have a child. I said ‘no’, but they wouldn’t understand and now they have a child who is mentally, I think, is not all right. He is a [unclear?] child and I don’t know what will happen and he doesn’t talk even now. 

So dedicate yourself. By dedication if it’s a realised soul it will feel happy and by dedication, if it’s not a realised soul maybe it might get realisation as soon as it is born. But otherwise you will create a problem for the child, because your mind has to be happy, you have to be happy, you can never be happy with artificiality and some sort of imaginary fantasies, you see, they are empty, absolutely empty, they are never joy-giving, they might be ego-pampering but they are empty things, they are good for nothing. You can’t live with that. They are useless, you must face reality as it is, you can’t run away. You cannot create your own paradise and live in that, isn’t it? You have to have a real paradise in which you have to live and that is what one should establish. I see all these women and men walking on the street with the hands and this, in everybody’s neck and all that, what are they ending in, into goats? Having cases of divorce, or some sort of a case where husband has murdered the wife, wife has murdered the husband, nobody can believe it, nobody can believe it, these things are happening. So what is it, that such a lot of demonstration, or we can say, horrifying, it’s a horrifying, what do you call that, horrifying pictures, sort of thing that you see, horrifying thing. When I see two persons walking like that on the street, I said ‘Oh God, where are they going to end up?’ It’s not going to lead you to any perfection, I tell you, it’s just you are dreaming all of you, are dreaming. Thanks to people like, horrible people like these poets you have and these people who sing the songs of love and romance and this and that, all nonsense, it’s useless, what about their own married lives, how did they live their own married lives? Just have a look, when they sang these love songs and this and that. All right, if it is truthful, one can understand, that’s very rare. Normally it’s all nonsense, most of it. You see some people have mental projections and some people have imaginary projection. Both are just the same. But this imaginary one is really destroying, because at least mental projection you can suspend yourself for a while, but this imaginary projection, you just fall down in no time, and that’s why suddenly people discover after two years of life [aside/hello, come in, come in] oh, my married life has changed, what has happened, they have just a spin, you know, ‘oh God, all our relation has gone, what fantasy, all that glory has finished, what has happened?’ Why am I like this? After two years or three years, five years, maybe. Actually, because it was all nonsense they were carrying on with. Now after all that, the dream is over, now the marriage, now the true love starts, and that true love never demands, never demands. It gives, it goes on giving and it only demands when it is required to correct the person. For example, the husband comes very late every day, and it is telling upon himself, then the wife will say ‘why do you come so late?’ That’s good, for his health, not because she wants to make a rat out of him. That’s good, that’s not demanding, actually, that’s care, that’s companionship. Companionship cannot be that you get attached to each other and, just if you have seen two horses driving the cart, then they are kept apart, if they rub each other all the time, the cart would move! It is just a common sense, you know, you must allow another person to have his movement otherwise how will you move? It’s the point, when they walk on the road also, it’s so dangerous, the way they walk, I can’t understand, why should they stick on to each other like stamps, what is the need?

So to have a better married life, what should we understand? That we must inculpate the ideas of true love, the whole brainwashing is needed, because so far whatever you have in your brains are all imaginary nonsensical, romantic, funny ideas. They are not on solid grounds. They are in a balloon, you see, so you must know what is true love. And true love enjoys sacrifice, giving. From your Mother you can see, I enjoy giving and taking. Giving is much more enjoyable. So this is one thing, secondly the partner has to grow more in his collectivity, otherwise it’s not a marriage. If his collectivity is reduced by your presence then he is not your husband but it’s just a person who is used. Arneau is married to his wife. When I told them to go for a honeymoon, they said ‘Mother, best honeymoon is with you, when we are going out to do Sahaja Yoga’. Just imagine. Kuli got married, they got married and they came with Me to Exeter, I said what are you doing here? Why don’t you go for a honeymoon? They said, ‘Mother, where is the honeymoon? We don’t enjoy any honeymoon, we are enjoying being here. But I had to fix them up, I told them to get a room in a hotel, when I came, I said ‘you stay back, you are not coming with Me’. That looks so sweet, you know. That everyone wants them to be together. It should be the desire of the collective that you should be together. On the contrary, if you behave like this, everybody will say ‘God knows, now he has gone inside, now what is he going to come out with?’ Not good now. And then if your husband doesn’t agree to your style, it’s even worse. Then you feel miserable, much worse. [Unclear] You feel that you have not achieved anything. That you wanted to have him there and he just didn’t listen to you. If he becomes a hen-pecked, absolutely a cabbage, or as I say, a rat under your feet, then he is a good fellow, you want to look after him and look after the house, arrange a few things here and there, no, but he must be completely under your control you see, all the time holding your hand, or your neck, or your, I don’t know, your waist or whatever it is. All the time. Then he is a nice man. But if he doesn’t do all these things in the presence of others, you see, to make everybody feel that you have completely possessed him. But there are many ways of expression which shows that you are very important. First of all you must know how that person is important, also, if you do not know how that person is important, how will you know his importance? You see, just you feel for a person ‘oh, you are very important’. If he is a complete fool, only then he will believe ‘all right, if this woman thinks I am very important, I must be the angel’. He must be a real fool to think like that, isn’t it? He must get this from everyone. If the wife sort of garlands the husband, does his aarti and sings praises of him, writes poems after him. Have we to believe that he is really that? Can you believe? Tell Me, is it possible? Nobody is going to believe that, isn’t it? You want the sanction from My approval of what you feel about your husband. Or he would be the greatest idiot to believe that what you say about him is something great and he shouldn’t bother about others who [unclear] him. So then [unclear] how far are you building up the opinion of other people who would like to praise your husband? This is what one has to see. 

See, the relationship can only be established when you understand that he has his own image, you are your own image and they do not fuse together the way you think, they do not. This is the problem with you people is, I don’t know, by holding each other’s hand, I don’t know, how you fuse each other’s images, see. And these things cannot be done on the street, I mean things that are to be done in the drawing room must be done in the drawing room. You can’t bring the whole bathroom in the drawing room. So there is no sense of decency, no sense of decorum, there is no sense of sacredness, of marriage, marriage is sacred. That’s why it is so secret, you cannot expose, that is one relationship is so secret, between you and your husband, that you cannot express it outside, it is so deep, it’s like the root. Nobody can see it. If you see an Indian wife, I mean the husband and wife will never sit together, never whatever you may try on the same sofa, in the presence of others. When there is no one, it is all right, that’s a very different thing altogether. But when there is anybody else they will never sit next to each other. Now you have lived with Me for some days, have you seen CP sitting next to Me? Anytime? Even holding My hand, anytime in life? Never. It’s not done.

I will tell you an example. I was at the airport and one solider, you see, came back from the war and  we knew the mother, father, everyone, and he is an actor, father is an actor, he was also something like a commander in the army and from the war. He was a prisoner in the war and when he was released he came back, and we were at the airport. Many people had come to garland him and all that, and his sweet wife was also there, she was expecting, standing on the corner. She just looked at him from advance, little glance and she would just stand. Father went, garlanded him, mother went, kissed him and hugged him, everybody went. Just standing, waiting. So sweet. Understanding was so great. I mean we don’t even say goodbye to each other, nothing, when we part. It’s so much there that there is nothing to be expressed outside at all, nothing left for expression outside, it’s everything inside. That’s a deep love. Remains to say that in India people who don’t show off these things on the street, they are not in love with each other. They don’t have divorces at least. I mean in India, people won’t sit like this, a man sitting and a man sitting next to him, and then you see, the whole system is worked out in such a funny way that in a dinner party, you must sit with someone else’s husband. It’s hateful, you don’t want to sit next to another man’s body, you see, you just want to keep away from such a person. Because after all he is not your husband, why should he be so close to you, you don’t like it. But you have to sit next to him because you are so much, all the time good to your husband that perhaps you want to change. I don’t know why they do it, such a nonsense. But in India, if somebody has to sit on a dinner party or in a cinema, for example, then how will he sit. Supposing My husband is there, then I sit next to him. Then the wife of another person will sit next to Me, and then the husband, then the husband of another person, and then the wife. We always sit together, in dinners, in any place. Then we don’t just go on hugging each other or sort of. If we have to sit, if it’s a combined dinner, then, but if it’s a separate dinner, then ladies sit together and men sit together. That’s different. But if it is combined we don’t sit next to other husbands and wives, that’s not done, it’s wrong. But then you don’t mind, because, I just can’t explain, on the street you will walk and if you are glued together, and when it comes to anything formal then you are supposed to talk to another man all the time and another woman all the time. Something I can’t understand. In formality you are so absurd and in informality you are so shameless. Absolutely shamelessness I tell you. Really shameless and if you see, even your children when they are small, they don’t like it. They close their eyes, I have seen. They don’t like because innately they have an idea of shame and understand that the way they are behaving is nonsensical, it should not. And the bad effect of it is this, that Genevieve told Me that in this international school even  the girls and boys of ten years are doing that to each other. Ten years of age! Because there is no shame, you see. It’s not to be done in the presence of children. That’s how we destroy all the innocence, everything and just a show off. The main thing is that you create an image, create a dream, create a kind of a hallucination and live with it. And it’s over. And then you think ‘Oh God, what has happened’. Actually you people really get married when this nonsense finishes. Before that it’s not a marriage. For us this nonsense never exists, of course, I mean you feel attached to the husband very much and this is always, you are feeling attached but then after marriage you do, then the husband, ‘we would like to talk to you’, you see, knock at the door, somehow, but the wife is ‘just wait, you see the mother is sitting here, I can’t come’. 

There is so much enjoyment in that kind of a thieving as you can say, that you just escape to your husband gradually and he escapes to you. You see, it is much better, it’s more dramatic. It’s so easily you get it that you have no value for that. There is no, what you call, the hankering of it. It’s so on the street, it’s so cheap. Any man who walks on the street, he is there, his hands are out. Any woman you meet, she wants to put her hands around. What is this? This will never give you that exclusiveness, that value for true love. I mean true love doesn’t talk, it is there, it exists. It doesn’t show off. It’s too great to give up its dignity. So you get over your complexes now. There has been a problem, serious problem and I think people of your kind should be first of all found out somehow. That’s what my problem was, that’s why I asked you, what made you do it. If you are a seeker, say I get another seeker like you, imagine. Somehow we have salvaged Geneva, after your departure. Otherwise they were all finished. They were all against each other, and very much against Matthias. They wouldn’t accept him as a leader. I found it impossible. Same with [unclear] it happened a little bit, but Jane, that way is one thing, she will not give up Sahaja Yoga at any cost. You may cut her into pieces, that’s one thing against Me and against Sahaja Yoga. She will sacrifice everyone, will sacrifice her husband, her child, everything for Sahaja Yoga, that’s her thing, though she was not very sensible about things, all right, but she will not give up Sahaja Yoga. That I know, for definite, for her Sahaja Yoga is everything. If I tell her to cut her throat for that, she will. Of course, she is possessive, she has problems but not to that extent. She understands Sahaja Yoga is the greatest thing. That’s a beauty. But yours is that you even went to the point that you didn’t see Sahaja Yoga’s greatness, you got lost. And everybody had a feeling that you will use Me, use Sahaja Yoga, just to find a husband for yourself, like Matthias. So this impression has to go. Only way is that you work out something in Sahaja Yog, so that we will establish. For example, Hugo didn’t want to marry Barbara at all. And I told him, ‘Why?’ He said, ‘Mother, only thing, is the way she makes a [unclear: door] out of me, I can’t bear it. And all the time she is after me, she is so romantic, the way she looks at me, she wants to touch me and I can’t bear it. She’s not here for Sahaja Yoga, she just wants to have. I’ll have nothing to do with her and I’ll never marry her’. I said, ‘but it’s great that some woman loves you, you should be happy’. He said that ‘it’s not love, because she knows that I don’t like all that and I would like that she should become a great Sahaja Yogi, that’s the main thing.’ So I sent her to Vancouver. Then we realised, I told her ‘that’s the only thing you can do’. But I told her also another thing, ‘don’t do it just to please him, it’s very low to do it for one man, who is he after all? Why do you want just to please him? Why not try to please Me? Or please yourself. And that’s the best way, is to please yourself, you please Me. And she did it very well. Which bull bears more load on a bullock cart? Let’s see. But this mixing up has to be, first of all neutralised, you must understand this romanticism and now don’t dream that ‘oh I was with him’ and all that was nonsense, finished now. Reality is reality, the dream is over. All right? Now forget it! That was only ego-pampering as you said. For that, whatever you have tried through your ego, forget it. Otherwise this ego will never disappear. All right? 

May God bless you.