Talk to Sahaja Yogis

[Aside remarks]

[inaudible] sense of smell because both left and right, because both smell bad – left and right – but one has a very sort of a smell of a very stagnated personality and another has a smell of a, say, jaise pasina (Hindi word: like sweat – ed.) – burning sharp smell, haan (Hindi word : Yes – ed.), sharp, pungent. [inaudible] like if you put the blanket, you see at the bottom, keep it hanging. It smells horrible, like that stagnated ammonia types. That’s all. But then this side all fragrance. This side on your vibrations, it’s better. That’s all right.

So now the combinations of all the muscles because the muscles all [unclear] comes from Mooladhara. So this combinations would be, you see, which one [unclear]. For example, if Mooladhara, left Mooladhara is catching, left Nabhi, left Mooladhara, left Nabhi, left side, this is a very bad combination. Left Mooladhara, left Nabhi, left Swadishthana and heart is a bad combination. Because even if you have these three things, if your heart is all right, then the Spirit is right. So it can control all these things. But if you have in addition to that, even left Agnya, then definitely you’ll have one of those incurable diseases like mellitus. So for mellitus patients or for cancer patients, for all such incurable patients, you have left side problems.

Cancer can be divided into various [unclear : sounds like – faces OR phases]. Like you can have cancer, say, of the uterus. It’s the combination of Swadishthana and Mooladhara and left Nabhi, left Swadishthana. So you give it a bandhan on these three chakras separately, then tie them together with fire, with a [unclear] tie them, go on tying. First of all, of course, you have to raise, as I have told, the right side to the left. Do it about seven times and then after doing that you bring it to any chakra. Then you tie them up together – three of them together – and then put two together and then two together and then all of them together – the tying up, you see – and then take it out like that. Tying up. With that tying up you will find that they will have no place to go [unclear] and you’ll be surprised that they [unclear]. It will clear.

But at that time, the best thing would be to have a candle with My photograph behind it. It is the best if you can [device or devise] a method in which you will have a candle in the front and the photograph behind so that vibrations are flowing all the time. But at other time what you can do is to put the candle and one hand towards the photograph and right hand you can use so that vibrations are flowing. Best would be to have the candle in such a place. Behind it you can also fix my photograph, with the candle and the photograph together , if you could make some device. I mean, in India you can.

Sahaja Yogi: We have mirrors behind candle. We can remove the mirror…

Shri Mataji: Yes, instead of the mirror you can have a photograph. That would be better.

Sahaja Yogi: Instead of the mirror, if the candle is in front and the picture is at the back, you see a special candle stick which can have both Shri Mataji’s photograph and the candle on it.

Shri Mataji: That would be very effective . Otherwise, for other normal people, what they have to do is to put the candle with left hand towards the candle. Right hand you have another candle and photograph, that’s all. Right hand you have another candle and go on doing like that. It can work out that way also but if this combination is not all right [unclear]. So best is to have direct, if you can, but this also will work out. Even just giving bandhans will stop it but this is a very quick method, flame. If you have fire also you can. It’s very good to do on the fire. If there is fire burning, ask the person to put the left side towards the photograph and right in the fire. It will clear and the photograph should have a candle also. So put the left hand towards the photograph and right hand there. It will clear out.

For the Mooladhara, it is better to sit on the ground, you see, just like we have a camp fire. In a camp fire we can sit on the ground, Mother Earth, and have some fire. You can do it in the summer time – it’s all right. Clear out the Mooladhara.

[Mother talks about Scouts’ Tent and huge pandals, about the expenses etc. Not hiring large pandals used for marriages but smaller ones will be cheaper to hire separately for ladies, gents and others]

So the second point is about the Swadishthana. It’s the most complicated. Left Swadishthana is [unclear] due to fake Guru or unauthorized things but fake Guru it will be Swadishthana plus [unclear]. But if it is purely left Swadishthana then you will get [unclear]. That’s the easiest. It is pure with someone like that. But left Swadishthana can have all kinds of combinations. Say, for example, left Swadishthana and Mooladhara. You can get paralysis of the legs for no reasons. You might get arthritis. But for arthritis, they have to have left Nabhi. [inaudible] With Swadishthana you can get paralysis of the legs. Left Swadishthana, Mooladhara – it’s very dangerous also in some ways because you may develop very dirty methods of perverted – like, extremely satanical, you can say, Pishaach (Hindi word). You see, left side is pishaachik. What is it called? Pishaachik?

Sahaja Yogi: Demonic?

Shri Mataji: No, Demonic is of the right side type of a – demonic is aggressive but Paishaachik is a person who is like a pashu, who is like an animal – bestial. But I mean beasts are normal. Bestiality. All right. So they indulge into such things and they can do this to others also. They can find out ways. It’s more like a worm, you see, such of people are fond of eating faeces, you see – all kinds of things, you know. Dirty people – absolutely devilish. I mean, maut se bhi bhattar (Hindi word : worse than death – ed.). They like bad smells and they like to smell the gutters, this, that. But they would not like to smell the flowers, sort of thing. That’s left side. Like people who do the washing of the latrines and all that, then they become like that. They don’t smell anything dirty. They are just like an animal, you can say. Nothing is dirty for them. They will eat the food lying on the street – they won’t mind. I mean, dirty people. And as a result of those habits, they might develop something.

Sahaja Yogi: It goes to Nabhi?

Shri Mataji: It can go anywhere. But what I am saying, basically it is an activity which is sly, which is secretive, which is low.

Like you see there are, say, flirts. Must be because can’t have sex actually – flirts. Then also all the perversions, you know, that you study about these people is like, say there is a young girl but they can’t flirt with a young girl so they’ll flirt with the wives sort of nonsense they do within that [unclear : sounds like – border]. They flirt with the mother because they can’t flirt with the young girl who is sitting there, you see. As soon as they see a young girl, they start flirting with the wife. What do you call that kind of a thing – displacement thing?

Sahaja Yogi: It’s a typical psychology, Mother. Freud entirely spoke about it. This whole psychology is based on the theory of displacement.

Shri Mataji: It’s true, very true. I have seen people doing it. But what is the reason in this? He says it’s a good idea?

Sahaja Yogi: He says it’s a good idea.

Shri Mataji: It’s sickness. That is the sign of sickness because you are dealing with your mind.

Sahaja Yogi: You mind become – that is the thing, Shri Mataji. What happens is, now it’s clear to see is that you have a desire, for some reason, either because of cowardice or something, you do not express that desire, but instead of killing that desire, you twist it – wrong twist, you see. You shift it into another direction and if you cannot fulfill it, you give it another twist. So if you have a desire for person A, because you cannot go to person A, you go to person B who reminds you of person A but you have no real interest in person B. So you get frustrated. So you go to person C and it’s twisted and twisted and twisted, you know.

Shri Mataji: No, but this desire is actually artificial. I will tell you how. Say you see some, all sorts of advertisement, read book, this that, everywhere. Then you form an image. It’s an image that you follow. It’s an image that you follow, artificial image. It doesn’t exist in reality. Now you think of a woman who is young – it could be you own daughter who is young, you see – and seeing this young daughter, you might feel this desire for your wife. It’s not a very clean thing, you see.

Sahaja Yogi: Ha! Now I see what you mean, Shri Mataji. That takes place in our culture a lot. There are many examples [inaudible] between husband and wife.

Shri Mataji: Husband and wife. You see, normally the husband won’t feel that for the wife but if there is a young girl sitting or a young woman sitting or even a daughter, then he feels. That is, it’s a very debase sort of a thing – such a sly stuff . But it is actually, it is a possession. In this case it’s a possession.

Sahaja Yogi: The other extreme relationship is, Shri Mataji, in our culture is that both husband and wife together will go into such a situation, let us say – I cannot give example – which will inflame this desire in both of them.

Shri Mataji: Also it is filth. It is imagination and filth. Because what happens, there is no joy and a child produced out of such relationship – what will be the child of such hallucination? After all, the child is produced after two persons have met on the level –

Sahaja Yogi: Spiritual level…

Shri Mataji: No, not spiritual. You can call it, but in the present in reality, you see, because mind plays a part and the manas is on the left so it’s always deluded. You do things in delusion, you see. So you don’t take the responsibility of the child or the relationship. The whole thing is so funny, you see. There is no reality behind it. This is absurd.

Sahaja Yogi: This is the basis of all mental illness, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Mental sex is that. This is madness. This is real madness. This is the sign of madness. Child can be born mad in such a family or such husband-wife relationship. Where you see the marriage is a reality, it is a reality, it is not fantasy. It’s not some sort of a romanticism that you place one into another and imagine and change that this is another woman and you have relation with another woman. It is not possible. If you do like that, your mind is somewhere else. You are somewhere else. It has an effect on the mind of a child. So the child that is born itself would be any sort of a person, with the mind which is not normal, could be a mind who is mad, could be a mind who is depressed, can be anything, such a child.

Sahaja Yogi: This sort of a behavior, Shri Mataji, is considered normal in the West. If you read any of the magazines, even on psychology text books, the magazines so often people write.

Shri Mataji: Mooladhara [unclear : sounds like – has been made into] evil, I tell you. The Mooladhara attention is absolutely evil in the West. I mean, it’s really evil to human beings, no doubt. The whole concept is absolutely wickedness. It’s wickedness.

Sahaja Yogi: That means each generation is getting more completely destroyed.

Shri Mataji: That’s what I am saying. The whole thing is nothing but wickedness, of some sort of an evil doer who has put these ideas, and that’s why Mr Freud I believe ….

Sahaja Yogi: Mr. Freud, and the writers of Playboys. Freud started it. Freud made it respectable. First of all it was not respectable. People did it but they were ashamed of this attitude…

Shri Mataji: Accha, is that so? I don’t know what they do. But whatever it is. I’ll just give you an example because I have seen this happening among some of the so-called elite people here. So that’s what I felt that they see a young girl and suddenly you’ll find that they are very nice to their wives. I have seen it because, you see, My seeing is different na. But in that it’s not the play of so much of a possession, you can say, always, but could be the person himself is [unclear: sounds like – loose, can’t read himself]. You see, that kind of a nonsense. May be possession, may not be – it’s not definite. You cannot say [unclear] it will go. Such a person has to be alert.

Sahaja Yogi: But you said this morning, Shri Mataji, that these things becomes a part of your mind – these possessions…

Shri Mataji: Possession could be taken off but this becomes a habit. See, possessions can give you habits and can disappear and there could be you might form your habits as a result because you are enjoying that kind of a nonsense. Everything that is imaginary is not possessions. Everything that is imaginary is not possession. That’s your own perception – mental perception. This is a kind of a thing that is extremely abnormal for any righteous person – absolutely abnormal – and a person who leads such a creates problem for the whole society.

So left side is the physical side as far as the triggering of these diseases are concerned but mainly it spoils the mind. So if you have the left Swadishthana spoilt and left Mooladhara, you are vulnerable absolutely for a mental disease – vulnerable apart from physical; vulnerable for mental diseases. You might get all these troubles of schizophrenia, this, that. Even if your left Swadishthana is spoilt by any chance, you are in for it.

But if in addition there is Mooladhara then you are definitely vulnerable. But what happens that in the left side, the mind, how it gets into problems because you see first of all the left side makes you lethargic. So your mind stops working in the sense that it doesn’t think that what I have to do. It’s like, what you call, Mind, a devil’s workshop [Hindi : woh kya tha – what was that?]. You develop idleness. Idleness makes you think, you see. Now what to do with idleness? You can’t carry on with idleness. You get bored with idleness. So this idleness makes your organs idle, but this manas – there is no English word for it – the mind is intellect. Two things we can put it: manas or this side is the pranav shakti. So we can say manas – left side, the manas.

The manas starts going into all these things like these perversions and all that. The movement of the manas on the left side [inaudible]. For example if you are drinker [unclear: sounds like – rude OR prude], then you don’t see your sister as a sister; then you don’t see your mother as a mother. You can’t [unclear]. You see, all the values are lost in three generations. In the first generation you gain this nonsense [unclear]. Second generation also, third generation, it happens. How is it? In Indian it is not conceivable that a boy can have any such infatuation for a mother knowingly – impossible!

And here why is it so much? Because drinking is so common in the West. With drinking it happens but in primitive classes it’s absolutely a rule. Among primitive people it’s a rule. It’s actually a rule. They have lots of compulsions. In jungles the primitives, they – can you see – there is no problem. They are anarchist. They have no such – they are just like animals. So that’s there. But even if you drink, what happens is that part of pashuta ( Hindi word : animal-like qualities – ed.), that part of animal does come in you that you don’t see your sister as your sister. All sublimity dissolves. All sublimity dissolves.

This is the thing that on the left side when the sublimity dissolves, you see, there is no ascent because the movement is all that side. Then when you get possessed on that movement then you can get all other combination. Left Nabhi you can get. Left Nabhi can be caught, as you know, that left Nabhi can be triggered by a horrible woman in the house. A woman who is not religious, a woman who is materialistic – any sort of thing – left Nabhi. Anyone who is a lower level type of a person or any sort can develop left Nabhi.

Now with left Nabhi, you see, you are always agitated in that relationship. You are not balanced in that relationship. You may tolerate. You may say, “It’s all right. I have to go through this,” but the agitation is always there. That agitation causes the left Nabhi to grow into a problem. Left Nabhi, you see, is our spleen. It goes into this thing. Those mothers who have these problems can get children whose spleen is absolutely lethargic. Cannot produce any blood cells – anemia, a leukemia, some sort of a thing happens. Leukemia can be solved, you can say; can come.

But it is due to the mind. This is due to the mind of the mother or the mind of the father also. If the father is a flirt, he is a badmaash (Hindi word : wicked – ed.) and all that, his son can get it. Is all mind is very powerful. Manas is very powerful because you go to the left. Flirting also is the sign of left side – absolute left side. Flirting, not the actual. If a rapist, he is the right side but the flirt is the left side, absolutely the left sided, in the sense that he is absolutely impotent [unclear : sounds like – greatly], impotent and you see it goes into his mind – romantic fellow, all this nonsense. There is no reality – only flirts with women this thing. But also it may happen with people who are over-energetic can also become flirts because what happens that they are so energetic that they have no attention on their sex. Then the sex enters into their mind – the other side of their mind, the ego part – and then it can be used for ego purposes.

But a flirt, you see, is a funny type of a flirt – likes to show off his body, tries to show off his body, is the left sided. A flirt who uses his eyes, you see, and if something reminds of mothers and sort of pricks his ego on that and “I don’t know so many women are after me,” that’s another thing. So it’s an abnormal combination. When he becomes over-active physically what happens that he becomes impotent as a result because all his activities were his mental activities. Even sex is a mental activity. Even religion is a mental activity. Everything becomes a mental activity. It’s another mythical world of supraconscious. Religion means get up, go to the Church, sit on [unclear: sounds like – your head] very seriously, this, that – finished – come back, sit down, get your baptism, sit down like a fool and read the Bible, argue it out and say, “This is the dogma that I can think of.” Nowhere near the truth. That’s also a mental activity.

Fantasy it is and then it can be fanatics that side. So the fanatics could be absolutely impotent. They have no interest in sex. They don’t like the idea of sex. If anybody talks openly, they don’t like it but with eyes they will do. But if anybody mentions it, “Oh! This one? It’s nonsense,” but with the eyes they’ll do. That’s the ego style but this is another type where a man exposes his body. Women specially, they like to expose their bodies. I mean, imagine! This is left side – exposure of body. But to control other men and to use your body for that purpose is right-sided. But some even very slyly they do this. This is very sly manner.

Sahaja Yogi: I have seen, it’s what they call a seductive style they have. Even they don’t expose their body, they speak in such a way that you are caught in some sort of a …

Shri Mataji: They may not even speak. You see, their gestures are such…

Sahaja Yogi: They make you – first thing they do is illicit sympathy. First thing they do is they awaken sympathy and then before you know where you are, you are caught in something like a spider’s web and they do not want anything from you. They just suck your energies.

Shri Mataji: Left sided ones, they can do – I mean all these things but the result of all these things – that’s what we have to see as we have to cure them. All such people suffer from mental problems. They might have wobbling in the stomach because of the uterus. There could be barren women. They will have problems with their periods very much. They will not have their periods regularly. They may have irregular periods – all sorts of thing where the uterus is the mother’s place. So the mother who is disturbed or debased in any way, not respected, you can have problems with the uterus also.

Sahaja Yogi: What about [unclear : sounds like – oral OR corals] contraceptive [unclear : sounds like – oral OR corals] apart from tablets. Here that is quite common in the West to control.

Shri Mataji: I have no idea as to that but that’s not so bad [unclear : sounds like – – rotation] medication is not so bad but to take medicines for that is not good – periods and all that. But more is to see – slowly, slowly you see in Sahaja Yoga when you rise they build up a rhythm of it, you see, a rhythmic. It’s better to have it rhythmic, you see, to arrange a rhythm. So that’s a better way of doing it in a rhythm where you know this time is free sort of thing is better. But this coil also is I don’t think is any harm. After all, irritation is not so much. It becomes superficial but other things should be avoided like taking pills and all that is absolutely wrong. Pills and all that must be stopped.

Sahaja Yogi: The young women of even 14 to 16 coming in are being on the pill, Mother. Such little girls, really. They start so early.

Shri Mataji: Because mothers, you know, don’t want to take the responsibility of the girl [inaudible]. I mean, you see they don’t know these things at all. In the city at the most we don’t have these problems, you see, because we don’t have so much of a exposure of sex, you see. We don’t talk of sex. I mean, innocent people, they are innocent. So if you are innocent you don’t have to. But imagine from this how many dangers are there. First of all, it’s very unnatural to have a child very early because they are not matured enough and you are not married. So the child is placed in a very difficult situation. [aside remark] So that kind of a thing is among Sahaja Yogis we have to understand that our children, we should bring up in such a way that they are very innocent.

Try to keep them innocent – more with the flowers and with animals and all that and in such a way that they do not see all these things which are excitable by young. But if it is so, then what? If a child is like this then what is the treatment for a thing like this? If the child has too much interest in these things, if he is right-sided, he has interest like this, best thing is give him cold water bath and things, you see. Give more cold water baths. Make him sit in the water tub for a while with some salt and all that. That can help. Sandalwood paste at the Mooladhara will be good idea to cool him down so the excitement is much less and then you can put him left to the right – put him down.

But if it is a sly way of doing things and all that, then you can use fire. (Hindi : ajwain smoke is given during childhood -ed. ) In India it’s very common, they give ajwain, you see. Put the ajwain and put the child over that one, you see – smoke of the ajwain. It’s antiseptic and anti-bhoots and anti-everything. Just put the child on the ajwain and it takes away all the bhoots from them .

It’s very clean. So that’s what they do. For children it is good but also for elders it is very good to take it that way just to get rid of all this funny thing. Because Mooladhara is the support of all being. So to keep it clean and nice, any combination with it can be very deep and lasting. It’s very deep and lasting. You can’t get rid of it very easy. That’s why Mooladhara [unclear] and if somebody has Mooladhara you give the bandhan to Mooladhara. If you go to the combinations higher, say left Nabhi, as I told you, you get blood cancer. You get diabetes from left Nabhi because that’s all contained in left Nabhi. Also you can get lethargic liver – left Nabhi combination with Swadishthana. With Swadishthana, left Nabhi, this combination is, these things can occur.

Then we go ahead of that is the troubles like, say, diabetes cause left Nabhi is for diabetes. Now diabetes is not caused as a result of lethargic ways of the pancreas but it is actually over-active pancreas becomes lethargic – overactive. You see what happens – we think too much. Pancreas, what does it do is to convert sugar into digestible – what does it convert into? What it does is to digest the sugar in a way or it neutralizes into glucose; it breaks up.

Sahaja Yogi: I’ll tell you what it does. The endocrine part of the pancreas which causes diabetes, that converts the sugar into glycodin that stores the sugar in the body in the form of glucon or glycogen.

Shri Mataji: Stores the sugar as well as it also must be reducing it.

Sahaja Yogi: It reduces the level in the blood. It puts it into the cells of the body.

Shri Mataji: So what happens that when you are using your thinking too much or liver too much then what happens that the sugar is consumed fast because of the liver, you see. If liver is over-active, it means sugar. Then the liver is sucked and when it is too much sucked then more is poured over by this pancreas. Glycogen is more poured. It goes into over-activity. When it goes to overactive then it gets diagnosed and no more – finished. Then it says that [unclear: sounds like – we have] diabetes. So it becomes lethargic. But it is over-activity that brings this lethargy.

Sahaja Yogi: Yeah, this is correct because one of the functions of insulin is to increase the uptake of sugar by the liver.

Shri Mataji: Means it doesn’t secrete insulin any more. See, it has an activity of secreting insulin. Now it has a limited energy of producing insulin. I mean, if you exhaust it so where to get the insulin? So you have to put the insulin additional. This is the artificial thing. But you can cure diabetes by raising the left to the right because there you raise it – awaken – left to the right. Now right to the left you should not do in diabetes, though it is the same thing as right to the left, but first you try to raise it if possible.

If there is still some life left in that thing – absolutely there is some life left – then what happens is that it may start working. It starts working because when it starts pumping, the energy from the Swadishthana can flow because now it’s in connection with the divine power. So that can be sucked in. So it starts working out. But supposing now it is in such a shape that it is absolutely finished, exhausted, I mean, it doesn’t rise. Then you have to put right to the left and tell Adi Shakti to play her part; so She awakens it first. Adi Shakti to work it out. First you try to raise it with your own Self, with your own hand, your own kundalini, on the left to the right.

Try to give it a sort of a little [unclear: sounds like – teaser OR tweezer], you can say. But still it may not rise; it may not. So in certain cases, diabetes is curable if you put it left to the right or if it is a bad case, then you have to put right to the left. Like cases like infantile diabetes.

Sahaja Yogi: Diabetes is very common amongst Parsees, very common in Jews…

Shri Mataji: You see, diabetes will be very common in any country which is over-developed, very rich. It is the disease of the affluence. (Hindi : More the affluence – more is the intake of sugar.) They take more sugar than normal, those who are affluent.

Also apart from that sugar what they do, they think too much. Sometimes human being diet – don’t take sugar. Don’t take sugar but think. Then they will get diabetes.

Question: Why do children get diabetes?

Shri Mataji: Children because the parents are like that. The blood – you see, the parents, the pattern – every blood has a pattern and the message. Every person’s blood has a pattern and a message. It carries the complete – you see it is the habit of a cell – is molded by the kind of a personality you have. And now the mother’s blood goes into the child’s blood. So the same pattern is carried there and that blood, you see, circulates. If mother is like that, you see – she has diabetes – the child has. If the father has also, if it is a son, the son will get it, not women. Women do not get so much of diabetes. Normally woman don’t get it. But if there are women, you see, like politicians and all that or those who are manly women, even woman housewives who plan too much about their house hold – what to cook and how to entice the husband, you see – they also can have.

Then there is pancreas and spleen. Spleen diseases – I’ve told you, leukemia and all that. So for that how to cure? Best for diabetes is to use salt. Sea bath. Sitting in the sea – sea bath. And for diabetes, another thing which is very good is to have little pumping of our hands. I mean, you are a realized soul. Supposing you find somebody has diabetes, so you locate the pancreas, you see. Just try to little bit tickle it like that, you see. The pancreas, you can feel the pancreas. The doctors can feel it. Just give it a little tickle. And for a Sahaja Yogi, it is easy to locate. Wherever there is a problem, you’ll find a lumpy spot. But only Sahaja Yogis can feel because they are subtle. Doctors may not. A lump, see, you can find a lump here. For Me, all lumps are nothing but my chakras working. I am talking about diabetes. You see, My chakras are working like a diabetic patient.

Now this diabetes gives you a problem here (Back Agnya) because Swadishthana goes around here also. So when you have a Mooladhara and a Swadishthana, then you have a problem here at the back. So you get eyesight problem.

Suddenly you’ll find some people absolutely blind, with eyes open, with eyes open. in the eyes only. Now what you do is to put a candle before my photograph put little sindoor, put a sindoor on the head and give it a proper – what you call a – pradakshina style of a bandhan to the back side with a flame, with a flame; that’s very important. Flame should be used – nothing else – and you will be surprised, people will start seeing. I mean, somebody started seeing in Geneva. First she saw My red mark. Then she saw My face. Then she started seeing. But if it is left Swadishthana, and right Swadishthana because of pancreas and Mooladhara, then it is a possesion, I’d say. Then it takes more time. But as you will know on your hands give a flame. So for pancreas it may show right Swadishthana also – depends on at what position you are. Supposing it is over-activity of the pancreas is going on, then you get right Swadishthana. But if you are lethargic, and finished. Then you will just feel the left Swadishthana. But normally both you see in pancreas; you see both. So you get a lethargic or over-active pancreas or you can get even the same with the spleen.

Now say the spleen that is over-active. It’s the one that makes it absolutely lethargic with over-activity and then that inactivity brings forth this leukemia business because the triggering takes place. It becomes, you see, sort of hopeless and starts depending on some help and then the bhoots come in to help it. They start triggering it. When they start triggering, they do it the way they are. So it starts becoming bigger and bigger because it is not in relation with the whole any more. Like a person who is tired now, he sits down. There is a demon who comes. He moves with his speed. It’s like that and that’s why cancer is caused.

Do you follow My point? Because when these people attack, they have their own speed, their own rhythm which has nothing to do with the rhythm of the body, is sort of a – they get so this thing, that somebody lifts them up and they start using them. That’s how cancer is caused, when you reach that state of over-activity .

Now you can say for the void – peritoneum – void. But the worst is that if void is caught on both the sides, that is, if you think you are a guru or you have used some methods to be guru or you have tried to put something and also when you go to some guru or accept somebody as a guru. Both way if it works out then you get a compete Ekadasha on that. Then the activity of the cancer is much more. The reason I’ll tell you. The reason is very interesting. This reason you must know is the vaani, you see, is the sound. Sound that moves or the Kundalini that moves, you see, later on making sound but first the sound is there. So the sound rises first before the Kundalini. Om, you can say, starts moving when there is Kundalini. What happens that the flow stops here with the sound. So it is para. First of all the vaani is para. You can’t hear it when is there. And then it comes up to Madhyama*, here. Then it is… [MISSING PART OF RECORDING] 

That starts throbbing here showing that it can’t go any further when it is there, and when that throbbing starts spreading, actually your attention is dropped here, left side. That’s the danger sign. When you find there’s throbbing here near the sternum, below the sternum, in the stomach, in the stomach area, you can say.

[Hindi – How do you call this portion of the stomach?] Pyloric? No?

Sahaja Yogi (probably dr. Rustom): You can say, Cardia place. (it is about the two orifices of the stomach, Pyloric and Cardia)

Shri Mataji: Cardia. Cardia. At this point you’ll find it: ta, ta, ta, ta, ta. 

So you can also do one thing at that time. It’s easier to put your right hand on there now then you put your left hand on the center of the heart and ask the person to hold his breath and you go on saying Devi’s mantra. The ta, ta will rise. Then you lift the right hand. Put it on to Vishuddhi and take Shri Krishna’s name till this ta, means, this throbbing, comes here. Then you take it higher here and then you put it higher to the Sahasrara. It comes out. That’s one way of clearing out if you find a throbbing there. It’s a very important part. Do you follow that?

Sahaja Yogi: This, this sound is, here, is verily Omkara, is it?

Shri Mataji: It’s Omkara. It’s an Omkara which is para, is not heard. It’s beyond this but it becomes heard here because it starts, you see, it has an obstruction. The one that is all-pervading everywhere, it is existing already there. So what happens that sound – everything has a sound inside, you see, but it’s silent, is silent. This silent sound becomes active because it has an obstruction. Say, for example, if I hit this it gives a sound.

Shri Mataji: That is also Omkara. 

Sahaja Yogi: Kundalini itself. 

Shri Mataji: Also Omkara. That is also Omkara. Kundalini is also Omkara. But that sound which already is present in the body, this sound becomes active in the sense when you, percussion happens, with the percussion.

Sahaja Yogi: When the Kundalini strikes that you mean

Sahaja Yogi: The body is also Omkara also, isn’t it?

Shri Mataji: I mean, you can say so. AUM – these are the three things that is working at it, you see. The whole thing is working on A – U – M. It’s all Brahma Shakti, the Brahma Shakti which is already present within us; otherwise we won’t exist. So what are the Brahma Shaktis within us, are the three shaktis are there. But what happens actually when it integrates because of the Spirit, we call the Spirit is Omkara. All right? Now the Kundalini is the three Shaktis in human beings but manifested within us also these three separate Shaktis are there. When, you see, the attention is enraged or you can say the attention cannot find its movement everywhere, then it starts hitting you there and then also with percussion this is the percussion – but the Anahata is without percussion.

You see, if I hit this it will make a sound. All right? But there is a sound must be in this; otherwise how does it make a sound? It must come from somewhere.

Sahaja yogi: Now I begin to understand. The sound is inherent in that substance.

Shri Mataji: Of course, but it’s silent.

Sahaja Yogi: But something can trigger it so it becomes a sound.

Shri Mataji: Anahata is a sound which is without the percussion in the sound.

Sahaja Yogi: Is inherent in the vibrations of the substance’s sound.

Shri Mataji: So, you see, it makes a sound. But the trouble is the sound, we can’t hear it. Of course, some of the sounds we can’t hear it because our ears are not made for that. That’s different. But the sound that is in our body we can’t hear. Can you? Everything is going on. We don’t hear any sound. It’s absorbed. All the sounds are absorbed. But when the attention is hitting something then the sound is made. You can hear.

Sahaja Yogi: Now I begin to understand.

That is the percussion. But actually this heart is without percussion. Natural sound is without percussion it exists. Only in the heart it is manifested, as it’s called as pashyanti. Here it just cedes. So it is.

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, according to that would you say all sounds is an indication of disturbance of the attention?

Shri Mataji: All artificial sounds. You see, normally there is no sound.

Sahaja Yogi: You see, because I used to notice in Derby for instance that wherever there was a lot of sound around like lawn mowers or cars or something, my liver would hurt and the attention would be diverted. I mean, you see, because…

Shri Mataji: No, but that sound should not be so disturbing to a person who is in the center, you see. It is more a mental activity here, I think, so much of mental activity. Your brain is like bonbonbon. Any more sound, you see, that upsets you. To Indians, it does not so much because this brain is so much going on like this all the time, you see. Bom bom bom bom bom, it’s going on. You put a little sound oh! they can’t bear it – too much for them.

But actually that is not so severe. The activity is so much that you can’t bear any sound but with all that activity you don’t hear the sound in your head. See, blood is flowing all that you don’t hear any sound, you see, because it’s all neutralized. Absolutely there is no imbalance. But when there is an imbalance, the sound starts. You then start hearing the sound.

Sahaja Yogi: What I was trying to say, Shri Mataji, is that in this world there is so much sound. What is that sound? Is that sound a manifestation of imbalance?

Shri Mataji: No, that is percussion. That is with percussion. The sound comes from percussion. No, that is a sound that comes from percussion, any percussion. Without percussion there is no sound.

Sahaja Yogi: But what causes that percussion?

Shri Mataji: That percussion can be human, can be any percussion.

Sahaja Yogi: But that’s not the sign of imbalance…

Shri Mataji: No, in a way it is. Because when it is silent it is not at all touched but if you touch it then there is a percussion created. That sound is only in the heart – that is Anahata – without percussion. Only the heart has. Why? Because of the Spirit…

Sahaja Yogi: So the whole Universe is Anahata and out of this Anahata, on top of that is placed percussion.

Shri Mataji: Everything is in para – para Shakti potential.

Let’s say a man becomes mad. How will you make it out? You’ll get a throbbing here and throbbing there – just the opposite of Me. If a man is mad I’ll also get a throbbing, but I’ll not be mad. On the contrary, I’ll be producing anti-vaccine, you see – antibodies in my head or anti-things, anti-effective things. So if he’s a mad man, you’ll see he’ll have a throb. If you have a bad throat you will find a throb.

Sahaja Yogi: So any sort of throbbing…

Shri Mataji: Obstruction come on the way [Hindi]

Sahaja Yogi: Now what is, now take a third form Shri Mataji– it’s Vaikhari, you know.

Shri Mataji: Vaikhari.

Sahaja Yogi: Now that we do consciously. Whenever we are doing Puja or when reciting mantras, you do the Vaikhari.

Shri Mataji: Now, here, you see, it passes through your sound box. It’s like a bansuri (Hindi word: flute – ed.). It passes through an aperture. Because of that, that air or that sound which is silent, that is flowing, you see, because of that movement here, gets into a – this is the nada (manifested sound)– becomes the sound – here Vaikhari.

Sahaja Yogi: What is the importance of this sound, Shri Mataji, in the economy, if you like, of the Spirit?

Shri Mataji: Economy?

Sahaja Yogi: Of the Spirit. I mean economy – I don’t know what word to use. What is the importance of this Vaikhari to this atma?

Shri Mataji: Atma? This Vaikhari? Vaikhari has all the consonants, the vowels, you see. All the vowels are produced here.

Sahaja Yogi: That is true.

Shri Mataji: Without a vowel no mantra can be said.

Sahaja Yogi: No, that is true.

Shri Mataji: And without the mantras, no deities can be awakened. So the Spirit in every deity has to be awakened. So the Spirit of the sound resides here.

Sahaja Yogi: But supposing you reach the stage where the whole Om is flowing through the whole Sushumna. Then it is not necessary to use Vaikhari anymore. Is that right?

Shri Mataji: No, only chitta can work out. Even chitta is not [unclear]. They’ll look after, I mean, I don’t really, to be really frank [unclear] In my conscious mind I am not bothered. But I have built this up. You see all the mehenat (Hindi word : hard work – ed.) I have done before, you see. But now here as you have put up the thing, nobody knows what I have done. Only I have to put the lights on, and very nice. But I have done the job also but now I don’t have to worry so much. I just put the button on.

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, when we feel the pain from somebody who is sick when we think we are curing it, actually we are doing it by asking you to increase the flow from that part in You.

Shri Mataji: Yes, you are awakening that.

Sahaja Yogi: We are awakening it in You. We are not awakening in ourselves.

Shri Mataji: No, no, in yourselves. You see because when you, mind is all the time awakened. But what happens that by saying that whatever is awakened in Me is there in you and then you reflect on the other person.

Sahaja Yogi: We also produce antibodies.

Shri Mataji: Of course, of course, you do. You are realized souls. What do you think? You are sanctified people – not only produce but you are sanctified. You can do wonders but now what to do now? (translated from Hindi – ed.). You are still [unclear: sounds like – ripe / unripe?].

Sahaja Yogi:…you see in Jamshedpore, Shri Mataji, I used to notice this whenever there is a problem in Jamshedpore, what I used to do even not with me in my neighborhood or something, I’ll just go silent and I feel these antibodies will be coming out and in one or two days everything will be sorted out .

Shri Mataji: Yes. You see, you just have to think of it, ask for it. After all, Adi Shakti herself has given you the license. How many people have got from Adi Shakti? All My powers I have given. Just accept Me. Just surrender. Surrender means what? Accept Me means what? You exploit Me. Tell you very frankly the word is “exploit”. What is there to surrender? What do you have to surrender? Isn’t it? What you are doing is to exploit Me completely. But not the way the Portuguese have done. Portuguese are the limit, I would think. I tell you it is the last thing I could think. I really…

Sahaja Yogi: What should we do about Ghent [inaudible]?

Shri Mataji: I don’t know what to do with that.

Sahaja Yogi: Something has to be sorted out. Otherwise they’ll be in a big mess and our whole center will go into …

Shri Mataji: I feel that way. That’s what I feel. Money, I don’t mind. We’ll manage somehow. You can do some little bit here and there to show C.P. I can manage it. We can so some hanky-panky but what to do about them? Basically they are the ones who are going to be hurt.

Sahaja Yogi: And if they are hurt the whole center will suffer.

Shri Mataji: Hmm. All right. Tell them, Gavin, that you have to keep some money for Mother out of whatever you all – you must keep some money or what they can do now they are getting these things. We’ll keep them here. We’ll try to sell them or do something. We’ll say you cannot just take advantage. And you told them some percentage has to be kept or something?

Sahaja Yogi: They are quite willing to do it. Ricardo is still with us. [unclear]

Shri Mataji: Yes, of course. He has no money to go back. You know that?

Sahaja Yogi: I thought he is thinking of going to America or something.

Shri Mataji: America?

Sahaja Yogi: There was talk of going to America just to …

Shri Mataji: See now, don’t encourage him. He is on a very big ego trip and he’ll ruin himself completely. Has he got those?

Sahaja Yogi: He’s got copper utensils and there was some [talk/local?] of tablecloths. I’m not familiar …

Shri Mataji: And that I don’t know. Just find out Gavin. Be on his look-out. I hope he doesn’t fly out to America. Tell him that show everything to Mother. Bring it down here. I would like to see all that he has got. Stupid fellow. Just smartly came, taking my photograph. You see, I thought that who is this? Got some newspaper fellow? You see, very smartly dressed with a thing and jumping around like a monkey. I didn’t know who he was. Suddenly, I see , “Ah! You are here !” Such a stupid fool, I tell you. Four thousand pounds he has borrowed and bought those table cloths. Who is going to buy for 30 pounds and 50 pounds a table cloth like that?

Sahaja Yogi: Most of us didn’t know what was happening. That was at the beginning there was talk of big sale.

Shri Mataji: No, no, now what you do.. ..yeah! that must be his idea at that time. To go to America. What did he think? I thought I was a Commercial Director of Sahaja Yoga. I said, “What? Commercial Director. I just can’t understand.” I said, “Who gave you the idea?” He said, “Maybe my ego.” I said, “Really?” I didn’t know what to do. I mean, ego is stupid – stupidity. If somebody says, “What is it?” what am I to say then? (Hindi: itna bhi stupidity kya ki char hazaar pound aap borrow karte ho – why so much stupidity that you borrow four thousand pounds). And now you appoint – self-appointment. We paid for his transfer, we paid for everything, played all the tricks that they should have it and here they are just borrowed money on that stock. Let’s see now whether their shop works out or anything. But they never informed Me. You see, the bhoot is like that. The ego is such that we thought, “Mother, we thought it was your blessing that we got all the loan and everything.” I said, “Really? But why didn’t you inform me that you are doing it? If it was My blessing you should have informed Me.” There is no treatment for stupidity and 20 percent rate.

Sahaja Yogi: Of interest? 20 percent? I didn’t realize that.

Shri Mataji: What are you getting to start? They don’t have a single penny of their own. (translated from Hindi – ed.).

Sahaja Yogi: 800 pounds a year, just to service the [unclear]

Shri Mataji: I mean, they may sell it because there are 150 pieces altogether they have got but at the most for 3000 or so …

Sahaja Yogi: Every 3 months of delay is costing him 200 pounds. I don’t understand.

Shri Mataji: Every year how much?

Sahaja Yogi: 800 pounds a year. For them, it’s a lot of money.

Shri Mataji: I think they’ll become bankrupt. That’s the solution they have. I think they’ll sell it off and say, “We can’t return your money.” Within four years they have to return. They can say, “We can’t return. We are bankrupt.” That’s the only way they have.

Sahaja Yogi: Then what future do they have? They can’t soft loan it.

Shri Mataji: All right. So this is it. So now which one – left side we have dealt with.

Sahaja Yogi: Heart, Vishuddhi , Agnya we have left. We haven’t done aasman.

Shri Mataji: Aasman is right side.

Sahaja Yogi: Left heart complications, left Vishuddhi complication, left Agnya complications. Treatment of diabetes? Sugar and salt, Mother? Sugar or only salt?

Shri Mataji: Salt. For the spleen if you can really give vibrated extracts, you see – liver extracts or something, firstly. Liv 52 vibrated, for spleen – liver extracts, you see, like Liver gen or something. It has nothing to do with liver but they are liver extracts, means for the RBCs only – for iron content.

Sahaja Yogi: What about eating liver for the spleen? Is it good, Mother?

Shri Mataji: It is good for the spleen – liver (hindi : in India liver is smashed and had) for iron – any kind of iron content, B12. You better give me one B12 again. Everybody said that I was looking much better but now I am much better. I was so tired.

Sahaja Yogi: in the Hampstead meeting you were looking very young.

Shri Mataji: Isn’t it? Everybody said in Hampstead but you know I got tired in this one. The one we had, the last one, Cambridge, Cambridge one was also very, too much. You see I had traveled, went there, had a puja in the morning, no rest. Then we traveled all the way and this horrible bhoot on my head all the time arguing, arguing, got fed up and then we went there. It was very hectic but the Cambridge was the one. But thank God there were people. Now I got over it. But that day I was very tired. Okay over? Okay, we’ll do tomorrow sometime. What time?

[aside remarks]

Shri Mataji: … That Sahaja Yogis don’t realize.

Sahaja Yogi: That’s the desire, Mother, to awaken, the desire to do actually more than you think you can.

Shri Mataji: Yes, you see you have to go to the roots, you see. You have to go deep down into it. You have to be serious people. You have to be serious. You have to work it out because you have to go deeper into it. It’s nothing superficial. Superficial things can be done superficially. You have to be ardent about it, earnest, absolutely earnest about it. It’s reality, you see. It’s not fantasy. You cannot say, “Love, love, love.” All that nonsense is not there. To go deep down into it, to get to it, this Sahaja Yogis don’t realize. I tell you I feel that Sahaja Yogis don’t realize that it’s a deep investigation, the deep approach the superficial people can’t reach.

Sahaja Yogi: The Canadians seem to be doing very well Mother.

Shri Mataji: They are much deeper. You see, organizing outside is important but much more is organizing within and the organizing within comes when you reach the depth. If you do not reach the depth, how are you going to organize yourself within? There is no way out. So for every small, small thing – “Mother, he wakes me up in the morning” – array – why should anybody ask you to wake up? You get up and do it. You get up on your own. Objections – I am surprised at it. It should be done, for you good. You have to do it. You have to work it out. It is not just by the way on the road walking. You can just catch hold of something. It’s not that. You have to work it out. This Terrance came, “I don’t like people.” I said, “You shut up now. Don’t interfere with. That’s the thing. No use criticizing others or doing anything. You better keep quiet. You don’t understand anything.” Then he kept quiet.

Because Australians are going deeper, you see. Nobody tells them. This is the point, you see. It’s not just fun or anything. You have to go deep into yourself, to organize yourself. You must be organized within yourself. You see, alertness should come in that movement, “Oh, where is my mind, Mother?” It’s not just talking, you see, or putting posters or things like that.

Sahaja Yogi: Especially if many of these actions they are done without desire.

Shri Mataji: Without desire [Hindi : and to talk about it superficially – ed.] and just to talk about is very …. What have you achieved yourself? This is the chance. You have to dive down, if you have to find. First dive down much deep and that’s what I find is lacking. You see, why should anybody wake you up? What is the need? You wake up yourself. You should be the leader and you should do it. What is the need for anyone to do it? You come out of your own shells. You see, I can’t understand Myself. I mean, if I were you, I would have done it. I would have done everything to the extremes to do it if I were you. But you see I’m just the other way. Still I am an extreme…if this is the way you work, even if you pay someone thousands of pounds, people won’t work like that the way you work. For what I can’t understand – the sincerity.

Sahaja Yogi: Also I think, Shri Mataji, is happening that people are putting responsibility for their ascent on few people who take things earnestly and seriously. This used to be always here in London, I noticed, and they put their responsibility for their ascent on those people and they will just pack off and enjoy life.

Shri Mataji: They don’t want to ascend. You see, you have to take something and enjoy it yourself. If your tongue is not sensitive you cannot enjoy. As simple as that. Nobody can make your tongue sensitive. Can anyone? You have to make your tongue – everyone has. What is the need to say anything? I mean, it’s all right in the beginning. I just thought that if we put restriction all the nonsensical people will disappear. That’s why I said, “All right,” but what is this? This has become a customary thing.

Sahaja Yogi: You see, this business of taking responsibility, the main thing in England is people don’t want to take responsibility for anything including…

Shri Mataji: Oh, responsibility to your own seeking? I am not asking to take anybody else’s responsibility. Like this Susan now, the other day I saw. I was amazed – so much left, so much left. She has developed a face like a man, I tell you!

Sahaja Yogi: And no-one can see it. They all think she’s very sweet.

Shri Mataji: Really? There is a man coming into her. She will become a man, you see that?

Sahaja Yogi: Much worse than it was one year ago.

Shri Mataji: That day she came, I said, “You go and sit at the back.” I just couldn’t bear. I mean, they are not sensitive people. She is shrinking, on what? On mental level maybe.

Sahaja Yogi: I don’t know, Mother. It’s very subtle, you see. I mean, I can’t explain it. It’s – they have made a fantasy out of Sahaja Yoga. They imagine. First they hear what they should feel, then they imagine they feel it and then they feel happy.

Shri Mataji: Stupid. All right, whatever it is. Now in this Bhagvati Puja, on that day, on Monday, I’m going to come out with some things like that about this one that you see. Now look at these persons so very [ unclear]. They get up at 4 am – 4 o’clock, have bath, sit down, Baithak – you see, what we call is Baithak. I don’t know what you call it.

Sahaja Yogi: Baithak is determination?

Shri Mataji: It’s the sitting, sitting hours of the meditation, sitting hours, Baithak. What is your Baithak? You must have Baithak. It needs to be steadied on one point. In everything we think – even you say my brother – I told him that, “Why don’t you take this one for your articles, say, to the Auditor.” He said, “Has he got a Baithak?” Means a determined way of sitting on to it. Assiduity is,

Sahaja Yogi: Determination plus stability.

Shri Mataji: ..and stability. There is no word in English for it.

Sahaja Yogi: It applies to depth.

Shri Mataji: Depth and the holding to it and getting into it and everything is what is Baithak.

Sahaja Yogi: Some stubbornness also. What the English did to the Falklands in a gross way. They went, they went and they go it. Shri Mataji, the whole society has lost that. Only in the Army still you’ll find that. This is the problem with the country, is that Baithak has gone out in Sahaja Yoga but also out of it.

Shri Mataji: But Rustom, it’s such a thing. If you really see the beauty of Sahaja Yoga, one should really sit down. Even for music in India you have to have a Baithak. They are not a Baithak master. They cannot do it. They have to do riyaaz for six-six hours, seven-seven hours. In India it’s very common for a musician to sit down for six hours. Otherwise, do you think they can move their voices like that?

You see, C.P. is an example of that. Baithak is Baithak. When you come, you can see that. And in the office everybody says, “Whichever are the Indians? They work like this.” It’s a team. They all work better than all the English people together. English are 5:30 they have to go home – for what?

Sahaja Yogi: To meet their wives who will nag them.

Shri Mataji: I don’t know – maybe to rape or what? I don’t know. All of them, all of them, whether they are Japanese or anyone, except for the Indians, they work very hard, finish the job; then they go. Baithak is the point, you see. In Sahaja Yoga that’s what we need. (Hindi : in logon ne sab ne kya hai : All these people), they have achieved. Just see [unclear] the thing, how he has done it. [Hindi : bahut baithak chahiye : a lot of baithak is required]. That is what is lacking here. I don’t know how to put this into their heads. They are fantastic and they – what is this nonsense? When they come before Me, I can’t even make them sit before Me. It’s such a condition! They’ll go to India and they will also [unclear]

Sahaja Yogi: They have to sit for six hours, seven hours at a stretch?

Shri Mataji: They do. They do. (Hindi : abhi jaise ek chakra pakda hai : Let’s say if a Chakra is catching, for example, Swadishthana. They will work out Swadishthana – work out, work out – clear it. They will clean the carpets much more with Baithak than their inside, to get to it.

Sahaja Yogi: That has to be told to them.

Shri Mataji: God will do. Mataji will do. How far can I go? You see, I drop off very fast. Now this one is now one of the examples is this Susan – very left-sided. She’ll become a man – I have a feeling. Very left-sided, she is so caught up. See actually her ego is full of bhoots and she is one of them who is a target for Me and I am [unclear] there is another Susan. Susan – a funny name, huh! What does that mean? Is it a biblical name?

Sahaja Yogi: Yeah, Susanne. There is a dirty story in the Bible, Shri Mataji. It certainly gives rise to dirty thinking. It’s a dirty story. That’s all I can tell you.

[Mother talks to her cook and arranges for seating and food menu arrangement for the guests. She discusses about buying sari for Gauri Puja.
Gifts to be given on Gauri Puja can be made of stone or clay. Can be of marble.
She suggests a Mother Mercy and a little child idol made of soap stone as a gift.
During Laxmi Puja, gift made of gold can be given but it’s not mandatory. But appropriate gifts according to occasion are more preferable.]

Note: *(Madhyamarga is the central path, while para, pashyanti, madhyama and vaikhari are the 4 stages of the sound.)