Public Program Day 1, Who does these things

Ghent (Belgium)

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1st Public Program. Gent (Belgium), 19 September 1982.

It’s very kind of the Sahaja Yogis of Ghent to invite me to come here in Belgium itself to meet them and meet other people who are seeking the truth. Actually every place, every country where Sahaja Yoga started, it had a very dramatic beginning. And I have been always enjoying and witnessing the fun of the reaction – the first reaction of the people of [unclear – truth]. [Unclear : Sounds like – Robert] is a wonderful person because he came to us at a point where people did not think that he would even achieved his realization. And suddenly I came to know that he has started a center in Ghent and everybody thought it was really miraculous. How could he do it?

It has happened also once before that one gentleman came to Bombay to get his realization and he went to Rahuri and started a center of his own. [Unclear : sounds like – And its true OR And through you] it is such a big organization now. I should not call it an organization but such a big tree that thousands and thousands of people have received realization under that tree. Like the banyan tree has a very small seed and once it [pierces/creates?] a huge big banyan tree. And the same is happening here in Belgium. I am very happy to know that we have such nice seekers here who have achieved their realization already and there are many who are seeking.

For this, there is one thing in common. I think it’s the sincerity of purpose – sincerity of seeking. If you are sincere, you won’t accept even the rationality or rationalizing. Because sincerity has its own feeling and the feelings cannot be argued and you do not feel satisfied with what you are doing unless and until you have found.

Sometimes people rationalize things because they enjoy the mental feat – like a circus going on and they go on arguing between themselves. They like to have like a card game, you can call it. But one must understand that rationality can go to any extent. A murderer can rationalize his murder. Murderer can rationalize his murder, why he murdered a person. Murderer – a killer. So it can have many various aspects and various representation.

But why we find fanaticism everywhere? People can kill other people in the name of God. But truth is very different. Truth is absolute. It is not that one can say, “This is truth,” and another one can say, “This is untruth.” It cannot be [unclear]. For example, the color of this room – everybody can see and say that this is the color. Nobody can argue on that point. And there cannot be two opinions about it. But then why, in the name of God and religion, there are so many sects? If God is one then why there are so many problems? So much so that people are now thinking that there is no God. Every thinking man really sometimes wonder what’s going on. Actually, the reason is that human beings as they are – at that awareness that they are – they are not yet fully there from where they can see the truth.

Supposing you are climbing a mountain, from different angles then wherever you are, you think this is the truth about the mountain. But those who are sensible will understand that unless and until they go to the apex, they won’t be able to see the whole picture and they should not take such a decision. So one has to reach that point, that zenith from where he sees all around and then knows that it is all just the same integrated in one. Once you are moving you should move along knowing that you have not yet achieved the zenith.

Now the problem is that people don’t want to believe that their awareness is not yet complete. At this human awareness, they want to judge everything. For example, a person who is not a realized soul and comes to a program, what will he see? He’ll see we are wearing a sari or saying some things. It may not be intelligible to his mind at all, because we are not subtler enough to feel the subtle side of reality. This has given another problem to human beings. Those people who are realized souls or those who came from the zenith downwards – you can say incarnations – they were never understood by the people who were climbing up. And that’s why they tried to kill people who were coming down from the zenith and telling them about the zenith!

That is how they tortured people. Now it is difficult to understand why they crucified Christ. But maybe in modern times also if Christ has to come, you may not crucify Him but you will make such a fun out of Him in our newspapers that He would be crucified in any way. This is the way we try to avoid the truth. This is not a question of our inferiority. Because when you think that you are inferior to someone, these problems come. But if you understand that the ocean is waiting for all the rivers to flow in it, nobody is inferior or superior. The clouds rise from the same ocean, go and fill the same rivers and again the rivers flow into it. There is a continuous process going on. So there is no question of inferiority or superiority. But at this stage of awareness, it is very difficult for human beings to understand that there could be someone who is just like the ocean, who is the spirit.

Till you become the ocean, you will not understand that kind of a personality and you’ll always criticize such a person. So there is a vicious circle between the people who know about the truth and the people who do not know about the truth. And in between, the fake, the people who are interested in cheating others and making money out of you or getting something out of you, have the [unclear].

Now if you have to become the truth, that is, what happens to us and how we relate it to our awareness, as human beings if we say there is a bad smell coming or a good fragrance is coming, we all know that there it is. But suppose the people just start quarrelling about it. You’ll say, “You are all mad. How can you not smell it? It is there. You can feel it. It is there.” Or if somebody doesn’t feel, you’ll see that, you’ll say that there is something [less/lacking] in that person. In the same way, when you become realized soul, then whatever you feel on your fingers, even a child feels the same. Even an old person feels the same. Any country, any community, all of you feel the same. You cannot argue it out. It’s an awareness in your feeling of your central nervous system, of the nerve. You can feel it about another person.

Mohammed Sahib has said that in the time of resurrection, your hands will speak. And His [Unclear : sounds like – independent OR dependent ] Islamic people, they feel that He was the last and there cannot be anything. He himself has said that there will be a resurrection time when the hands will speak and who is going to do that job. That means somebody has to come and do the job of resurrection. If you yourself believe that by doing this kind of a circus of namaaz they are just going to take off to heaven, they are sadly mistaken. Even the same about Christ. If you go on saying, “Christ! Christ!” and listen to the way people have killed so many [unclear : sound like – Ceialos] you think that they will have any place in God’s kingdom?

It’s true about Hindus also where they have formed a caste system and fighting among themselves. So one has to realize that whatever we have achieved is not sufficient. We have to have a higher awareness by which we see the zenith and by which we understand that it is absolute. Absolute has no higher point; it’s the highest. It cannot be compromised, either. Absolute truth means there is no parallel to it; there is no question about it. God has created human beings with great care and love. He has brought them to this great level of the understanding that there is God. For animals there is no God. Whether you believe in God or not, doesn’t matter. But on the whole people have an idea that there is some sort of a power above us. They can think about it and they can see it with their own eyes.

Now you see the flowers becoming fruits. You see so many living things happening in this world. Who does all these things? You have to think. Now if you do not want to know about it, so it’s [unclear], but if you want to know then we should find out. After all, what is this power that is doing all this living work within us and without us? Now if I say that this is the divine power of love of God, you are not to take this for granted because nobody has felt it before. Nobody sees it. It is so subtle that we cannot see it. It is here. You cannot see it.

But in ordinary cosmic level also you do not see any ether. It has got all the programs that are going on in England or in America and when you put the television you can see that. Supposing you are an instrument like that and it has to be just plugged to the mains, then why not do it? If you are the instrument, if you are to know, then it is better that you do it. But then the question comes – how to do it? Because it is a living force and that living force cannot be excited by human beings. We, what we do, is the dead work. For example, if there’s a tree available then we can make it into a chair. It is all dead from dead.

But we cannot make one seed sprout with our authority. You put even one seed in the library, nothing will sprout because there is so much knowledge around it. You stand on your head, do all kinds of Hatha yoga exercises or do anything you like, it won’t sprout. You may say all kinds of tantras and say all sorts of Vedas and also say prayers like, “Sprout, sprout, sprout.” It will not. You may end up calling it very obstinate, unreasonable thing. But the trouble is, for living things you cannot brainwash it. It has to work out. But how? You’ve to think how did we become human beings from a unicellular cell – amoeba? From monkey to this stage, where you are listening to a nice lecture? It is unbelievable that we were that and today we are this without knowing anything about it. We did not rationalize anything to become that. It has happened spontaneously. In the same way our realization is going to take place also – spontaneously. Now when we ask a simple question, “How does a seed sprout?” you have to just place it in the Mother Earth and it will sprout. The Mother Earth has the capacity to sprout. So anybody who has this capacity can sprout it.

So there are many people in the market who say, “I have the capacity.” Another one will say, “I have the capacity.” You say anything and you get the market flooded. But this capacity is to add, not to [unclear : sounds like – show OR sow]. It’s not just talking.

For example, I went to America first time in 1976 and there I told them that, “You have to be born again.” That’s what Christ has said. If everything was finished at the time of Christ, then why did He say that you are to be born again? So they started an organization calling “Born Again”. Even one President of America was born again. I don’t know how!

So I asked them, I said, “How do you call it ‘born again’? Means do you do that job?” So they said, “No! We are already born again”. As this self-certification. I didn’t understand how are you born again when you do not have the capacity to make others be born again. Now if the cement says, “I am the Mother Earth,” are you going to believe it? If you put a seed in the cement it won’t sprout.

But that is another capacity of human beings to believe into something false and live with it. It may be money-oriented, power-oriented – whatever strategies – but I find [unclear] it is the seekers. They need to suffer the most. You have this – or the people who are not intelligent enough, I should say – do not have the wisdom – always fall [unclear : sounds like – up for OR into] these things. Their ego gets identified with this wrong path and they just get dwindled up into it. It is a very sad thing because this is the time of resurrection. This is the time of your last judgement. This is the time you have to get your Self-realization. And so many are lost like this because of the misidentification. It is simple to understand that you cannot put in any effort for living process and you cannot pay for it.

But people work on your weaknesses and support your weaknesses and you get entangled into these things. I must say that once you get your realization you become the strongest personality. You do not aggress anyone but you do not also receive aggression from anyone because you are a living person What you feel, your life force within yourself.

Within us is placed this personal mechanism of kundalini, which is the residual power of our desire. It is called as residual because it has manifested the whole of being but yet not expressed itself. So in essence, it is the desire to be one with the spirit, to be one with the absolute. So as because it is not yet manifested, we call it a residual power. And this is the tree of life – the whole of it. You can see that. It is not in our central nervous system felt so far. These are the subtle centers which manifest of course [unclear : sounds like – in growth also of ] our plexuses. When this residual force rises through this center and arise at the top of your head it creates a sound just like a heart beat on the top of your head near the fontanel bone area.

Actually, Christ never needed any baptism but to tell people that baptism has to take place He had to go through this process which is termed as baptism. But everybody has not done the baptism. One who can give baptism in reality is the person who is a realized soul. So, it has nothing to do with what money you give, how you talk, how you live, what is your race, what is your condition. It’s just if you can give realization to others, then you are a realized soul. When this power [unclear : sounds like – presses OR passes] through your fontanel bone area and clears it through, you start feeling the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost coming out of you. It is not possible by doing anything else but the sprouting of the kundalini.

You cannot give a false certificate. You cannot say you’ve got Self-realization, you are born again. It has to happen. The cool breeze has to blow out of your head [unclear- that’s as simple as anything]. Then it has to flow from your hands also. Somebody asked me today that it is said that the kundalini is hot and you must get a hot feeling within yourself. Now must be some people who are not authorized to do something like that – must be creating a problem with the sympathetic nervous system.

This is a sign of sickness. We know that if somebody has temperature then we know that person is sick. Even in nature if you see, you cannot see that there is a helium gas and people are working on it to reach it to the absolute zero point in cathode – helium. They have found out that when the gas is cooled down then it is filled more. Then all the particles, that is all the atoms there are, or you can call them molecules, they do not stick each other anymore. They become very quiet and they move in the same direction – like collectivity it is that. And when they are heated, they start bumping at each other, kicking each other and destroying it.

Now the disease we are taking is the cancer. When the whole body gets heated out and it cannot pass its heat into the blood to show the temperature, the heat is retained in the body. It comes from the fighting, aggressive malignant cells. And malignant cells are [unclear]. Then we lose the connection with the whole. Then they lose their connection with the whole.

For example, this is the center and the center is working for a particular area. For example, in the stomach, you can say this is the local center. It has to supply to the left sympathetic and to the right sympatric and center is the parasympathetic. Now when there is more [unclear] activity in the right side or the left side sympathetic activity, the connection with the whole breaks like that. When it is together, the connection is established with the whole. Like somebody who breaks from the society and is on his own and he says, “I am on my own,” he becomes malignant and such malignancy, when it is manifested in our body, then we get tremendous heat.

I was speaking in a concentration class and it was really snowing outside in London. But they emitted so much of heat that we had to close all the heaters. We had to close down the heater completely. And not only that, but it was so heated that outside we could see [unclear- leopards] falling outside on the windowpane. So one has to know that when the kundalini rises it has to cool you down. For Indians, it is very easy to know because it’s already written down and they know all about it. But the Westernized Indians have read only Westernized books which are coming from somebody who doesn’t know much about it. And it is just the opposite of what it is really. One has to understand that whatever was not known, in those days – ancient times in India tend to [unclear] later on in the life of Christ, in the life of Mohammed – they are all complementary to knowledge.

Christ had to talk of the ascent, while Mohammed had to talk about the establishment of the balance, but by no means creating any difference between the two. Blind people are not divided at all. Like human beings, if you have two doctors, one will say you have got cancer; another will say you have got tuberculosis. And if you have five doctors you’ll feel you have every disease possible in the earth. And they will ultimately give a certificate that, “You are in coma. We cannot get you all right.” And you’ll be surprised the patient in coma might walk out with [unclear].

Because the doctors who work out all these things themselves, are using machines which they have invented themselves, which do not relate to reality. To their rationality, to their understanding, whatever they think is, it is. So one has to know that even if you use something mechanical, like a machine, ultimately it has to be faced by a human being which are unpredictable. Like an X-ray, if it can be seen by ten people and they will have ten different opinions about it. But in Sahaja Yoga, we do not brand anyone with any disease as such.

We talk in the terms of chakras and centers and blockages. We cannot attack the Self. Self is beyond all these chakras. It is just the chakras which are separated from that absolute which is beyond diseases, beyond any attachment. Unless and until patient will come and tell us that he has got cancer, we will not bother as to what it is. We’ll not have a diagnosis. We’ll not try to give it a name. But on the contrary, we will judge what centers he is catching, what is the blockage. Once we know, everybody will feel the same way. Then the Sahaja Yoga has a method by which you can clean the chakras of another person and your own, too.

When the power is flowing through your hand, you have to just know how to maneuver it. And if you know the technique, how to do it, that’s all is to be known. But it’s a simple technique. Even just touching that person it might work out. Even just looking at that person it might work out. It is very simple like the sunshine. It works out in a very fast way in people who are normal people, who are balanced people. It works out much faster than in the people who are complicated.

But all this working takes place as a by-product of this energy that has enlightened you, because you are the instrument, you are the energy, you are the doctor, you are the medicine. The greatest of all is that you are the enjoyer of all that work and the enjoyer of your wellbeing. It’s all together in one state when you become the Spirit. And this is what one has to achieve, which is your own, within yourself. You don’t have to go to jungles to find it out or to go to someone. It is just within yourself.

Of course, an enlightened light can only enlighten another light. But that doesn’t mean that the enlightened light is doing anything obligatory or some sort of a big help to the person. For example, a part of your body, if it is paining a little and if you rub it, you don’t feel you are doing any obligation to that part, do you? So you don’t help no-one because nobody is the other. All these ideas are little complicated at the beginning but when you become that, then you become so simple, childlike.

I would say that for introduction of Sahaja Yoga it should be enough for you to give some food for thought, and tomorrow again, I will be speaking into details as to what is the correct and what are the achievements about our spirituality. Of course, on the first day I would like you to ask Me questions and I would like to answer them because rationality is always there and it should not be illogical. Whatever is got [unclear -working] is absolutely logical. We are not so logical. We are rational but not logical.

So again I would thank you all for giving Me this chance to talk to you and request you to ask Me questions if you have any about Sahaja Yoga and I’ll try to answer them.

Thank you very much.

[Questions are being asked in another language, aside remarks]

You will be amazed that Sahaja Yogis become so negligent about their health that they don’t bother and God looks after their health, I must say. And sometimes, we get worried about that.

One day we had gone to a forest and we were coming back. I was in the car and they wanted to go on a truck – all of them – and I found rain all along the way. So I said, “They must be all tensed there,” and I was quite worried.

And then I reached the place where they were supposed to be waiting for us in a house. They were all singing and very happy and taking some cold drinks [aside remarks]. So they reached the place where they were supposed to wait for us and there I found them very happily singing and taking some cold drinks. So I asked them, “How is it that you avoided the rain? The whole road was filled with rains. What happened to you?” So they said, “That rain never touched us, Mother. It was way ahead of us and it never touched us. And it was really watering the dusty road but it never touched us.” Because in Sahaja Yoga, you feel the complete presence of God Almighty and [unclear] His compassion, His love. And His attention is so beautiful, is so dynamic, is so efficient, that normally Sahaja Yogis are not sick.

For example, I asked one Sahaja Yogi – he had got lots of equipments on music – how did he manage? He said, “No doctor’s fees anymore and I do not smoke, I do not drink. All the money is saved.” I don’t think any one of the Sahaja Yogis go to any doctor.

[Question asked – unclear]

That means you have a bad Vishuddhi. If you have a bad Vishuddhi chakra, see this [now/nerve?], it passes, travels through your hands and comes through here. It is already pressed by that chakra. If your Vishuddhi is not all right then you don’t feel. Many people in the West have this problem. They don’t feel. Normally you should feel it in the hands first and then there – normally. In India they feel it more in the hands first and then in their heads because the Kundalini moves from here and then comes out from here. But the sensitivity at this point is not felt in the hand, because this center is not all right. Some people, whom I know have been in Sahaja Yoga for days together, never felt it.

So you must try to improve yourself – Vishuddhi – and there are ways and methods. Honestly, if you do it you can clear it out. You should be honest about it and work it out. It will clear out. There are certain asanas you have to do to improve this center and there are some gargling and all that with vibrated water and also certain mantras – everything we need to clear out our center. Once it is cleared out, you will have no problem. Also cracking the neck is very good. It is done at the physical level – cracking the neck. I think it works out wonders.

You know these small, small things can reduce your sensitivity. Small things can reduce the sensitivity. Of course, if you are smoking, if you are talking too much, anything can reduce your sensitivity. Once as you start practicing and you start giving it to others, you get an inner force and you overcome all the blockage of yourself because God also looks after those who want to work for Him.

Any other question?

For the Vishuddhi? See, Vishuddhi, the deity here is Shri Krishna, Radha Krishna. Krishna is here and the Christ is stationed here and you see, on this point, you have to say the Lord’s Prayer. At this point you have to say Shri Krishna’s mantra. This they will tell you how to say it, how to relate it to Shri Krishna and on the left hand side is because of your guilt. Sometimes, you know, we have habit of feeling guilty. That’s absolutely useless and nonsensical. There is nothing to feel guilty. And only if you say, “Mother, I am not guilty,” it will clear out. You’ll be amazed. Only thrice you say, “Mother, I am not guilty,” it will clear out.

Or if you are a person who is using the right hand too much – say, you are an artist or you are a painter or you are a typist or something – then also it could be that you are using your hands too much in relation to your legs, feet and head. You can [unclear]. Luckily, I have come to Belgium at a point when lots of things have been already said. But in the beginning I used to be very careful, cautious and say very few things. So, now most of the knowledge is out, I should say. I said, I have come to Belgium at a time when most of the knowledge has been already [shared/said?].

There are four books written by four Sahaja Yogis now. But you must know that Sahaja Yoga door is open to everyone. Whether somebody is a doubting Thomas, whether somebody is against Sahaja Yoga or any sort of a person, it’s open to everyone. And you may meet people who are still not there, though maybe they might be here for days together or for months together, years together. Still they are doubting Sahaja and half-baked. You can get people like that because Sahaja Yoga is very tolerant and extremely forgiving. The only attitude is how many more people are going to get their realization. It’s the main objective.

There can be stupid people also with whom when you talk you’ll think, “How are they Sahaja Yogis?” you see. You’ll be amazed. We do not bestow any or confer any degree on anyone that you are a Sahaja Yogi – never. It is they who have to claim that they are Sahaja Yogi. It is for you to become the Sahaja Yogi. We do not say that, “Now, you are Mr Sahaja Yogi. You put a badge here. You are Sahaja Yogi.”

We have no organization and we have no such arrangement. So anybody can become a Sahaja Yogi. If you claim [unclear – sounds like pray OR claim] you have to come up to the point. So everybody is given full chance.

We don’t even openly say what is the criteria of a Sahaja Yogi. But you yourself know after some time that you are a Sahaja Yogi now, that you have become a Yogi in full way because you realize you are empowered. It’s a state where you reach, you see, doubtless awareness, after your thoughtless awareness. Then you start feeling, “Oh, I am a Sahaja Yogi definitely now.” You have to certify yourself. It is for you to judge.

What is your question – you want to ask anymore? No?

Yes, you see this TM fellow – he has a name. You all know that. You know what he was and how he [has/was] disturbed once upon a time. So if you know the mantra of what was his name and how he was destroyed you can just take it up. There are so many TM people who were treated. They are all completely cured.

In Sahaja Yoga, you know the past is full of all these gurus. [Unclear- of fake Gurus] you see the past is full of thousands of years. And you know how they are finished off also.

[Question Unclear]

It’s dangerous.

[Question Unclear]

They will [unclear] on the contrary. [unclear] not only that [unclear] but will give you problems, you know. I’ve seen people who after going to TM, their muscles start twitching. This is a simple thing which you call as possession, when you put a spirit on someone. Now it’s very simple, you see. They will give you a name say of Rama – that’s all right – but they also give you a horrible name you see, which [unclear]. If you will tell an Indian, he will laugh. And those people on the [unclear – sounds like – run] ask you more money, more money. So, you are paying them more and more without understanding why we are running.

Now if you are taking the mantra of Rama, you’ll ask them, “Where is the situation of Rama in your center? Where is He?” They won’t be able to tell you anything, nothing. They’ll just go on saying, “Rama, Rama, Rama.”

[Comment Unclear]

Q: What is the meaning of repeating always that mantra to come into [Unclear]?

[Unclear : sounds like – Horrible] It spoils your …. First of all this centre because you are repeating something. Anything you repeat, it will be spoiled. Specially it has the [Unclear] because you see, Rama, whom you are calling, you are not connected with Him. So when you go into too much extreme, at first you move to the left or to the right. And in that condition you can be caught up by your collective subconscious or collective supra-conscious. So in your calling, “God, God, God,” and you are not connected you might lose some [unclear] where is Rama there in the collective subconscious and He may just grab you.

So by this kind of a circus you will spoil all these centers as well as the center of Rama by which you might get asthma. But most of the people from TM who have come to you have basically one disease, that is, epilepsy. Also they have you see these problems of jaw bones and the movement of their muscles but when they reach [unclear] for eighteen years or so most of them ended up with epilepsy.

[Mother narrates some stories of experiences- mostly unclear and inaudible with disturbance – few audible dialogues are as follows]

I can’t forget their experiences when they first came to Sahaja Yoga. One day I received an SOS saying that one gentleman who came from here and somebody just recited the name of the Goddess and he went into contortions and contortions. He would not talk. And everybody got frightened. The Sahaja Yogis, it was a great experience for them. But they were so excited. Immediately they telephoned to me saying, “Mother, what is this happening now? He went into contortions. Please come.”

Another fellow who just saw the garlic, you see, in the chicken and he became mad, started shouting. Still he couldn’t see the garlic anywhere. He could not bear the smell of incense. Another fellow, he jumped. Also he sees things like that. Suddenly, you know, sitting down there, suddenly he jumped up. [unclear] I said, “What happened?” He suddenly jumped and started barking like a dog.

We have [unclear: sounds like – Douglas] here. He was the first one when they [unclear]. He went to some place called [unclear] and there he saw a magazine in which Yoga Today, Sahaja Yoga was written down. Now this poor [unclear] was a very big Managing Director and this and that. All his money was exhausted with TM and he has also lost his job and he was in a mess. So, tried to somehow or the other to go through his savings, you see, and he saw the program written there, this magazine. And the TM people are not supposed to read anything else. They are not to know anything else but TM, you see. And My photograph was there and they said, “All right now you feel the vibrations with the photograph.” And then he started … tried putting his hands like this and the whole face started becoming a kind of a [unclear]. They didn’t know where the face was [unclear]. He got a fright. [unclear] And this was a six month old magazine. He telephoned but we had changed our place, you see.

But he then somehow he found the place and then he telephoned and Douglas [unclear] was there on the phone, you see. So, Douglas said on the phone that, “Are you very hot?” He said that, “I am boiling.” So we are seeing people who came to us from TM who were boiling but they went away. You see, they couldn’t stand the [unclear]. So they knew the people from TM were boiling, very hot [unclear]. So then [unclear: sounds like – Douglas] said, “Are you from TM?” He said, “Yes. How do you know?” on the phone. So Douglas said, “I can see your chakras and I can say from your chakras, you see, you are TM combination.” So this [unclear] really called him to the ashram, slowly, slowly. Again he might go into that kind of a contortion.

Of course, he got his realization. He got many people into Sahaja Yoga, even the Director of the Flying Academy of Scotland and his wife and daughter who all were suffering from epilepsy. This lady was the grand-daughter of a Duke and they were all on the [unclear] the Deputy Directors and the Director of the flying squad. They spent money on the people who were coming there for doing the flying tricks. Nobody was flying, of course. They were not paid back by the TM organization and they were just bankrupt.

But the wife was struck by epilepsy and for three hours she used to get into that funny situation of [unclear] and scream and shout. But then they all of them were changed and they all are all right. They are doing Sahaja Yoga. So, it’s nothing. You should all be all right. [unclear] You can become a great Sahaja Yogi.

[Unclear comment]

He will be all right. [unclear] I do not know how to cure TM people. . But some of them are still, you see, half baked. Then they get out. You see, what to do? They cannot understand. Then what to do?

[Unclear comment]

About what?

Yes, they are all the same but, you see, spiritualists are openly saying that, “We are spiritualist,” you see. That also is another sort of a very bad thing like charismatic movement and what you call [unclear : sounds like – penticot OR penticourse GW: Pentecost?] and the spirit movement – it’s all just the same!

They get possessed. Now there are spirits which are right-sided and spirits which are left-sided. The right side spirits can give you an experience of an aura. You start seeing an aura. Like yesterday only in the night we had six people from [unclear- Sydney itself]. Out of that, two ladies started seeing a golden aura around Me. I said, “Don’t see all that. That’s not necessary. You see Me as I am.” “Well, we are enjoying that.” What to do? It’s all ego-oriented.

You’ll be surprised that most of the diseases like cancer, multiple sclerosis, leukemia, all these come from left side. Through spiritual [unclear : sounds like – fanaticism], that is, it has to be there. You flare one [unclear-side] and all that. It’s a very dangerous thing.

A man I have seen now, thrice it has happened – multiple sclerosis – which we have cured, but I have seen the man has lived with a woman who is possessed. That means his Mooladhara chakra is affected and that’s how he got multiple sclerosis. Can you believe it, in all these people? A relationship with a woman or a man who is possessed can give multiple sclerosis. All this sounds confusing. First thing is, they are very abnormal people. They are not normal people.

[Someone asking question]

Shri Mataji : What is it? Is what? This disease? Abnormal people, you mean? Or mental disease or physical disease? They are not normal. Why? You see, the people who are not normal have either a physical problem or a mental problem first of all – very obvious. They can be very moody people or a hot-tempered people. They could be extremely volcanic, they could be [unclear : sounds like – reclusive OR recluses], they could be quiet, and selling the people and frightened paranoids. There are so many methods. You can make out that a person is getting gradually a recluse. For example, TM people are reclusive. They get out from the society. They get away from other people. They shut themselves. They don’t want to meet others. They are afraid and frightened.

While Sahaja Yogis have to talk to people and tell them about it and they are trained as teachers for days together and [unclear : sounds like – this and that] completely brain-washed and they repeat what they have learnt and they have nothing to do with others. They don’t know each other at all. There’s no congenial relationship between each other at all. They are very individualistic.

Also this can be very dry, very, very, sort of devoted [unclear] because they are extremely dry. They have no feelings. Like one man he came to me, he was a [unclear]. He said, “Now, I have no feelings left. If anybody weeps or cries, I don’t feel anything about it. I have no feelings.” This is an abnormal man, I thought. He has no feelings. So, it’s an imbalance that he is such a dry personality.

But with Sahaja Yoga, not only that you become normal, but you become master of your Self – master. You become your own master.

Question: [unclear] now they all have mental or physical problems

Shri Mataji : Yes, to some extent all of us have but there are normal people also. There are many normal people also. It’s a, the kind of civilization we are living in, we have to believe in all sorts of [unclear] living in this one. But we have simple people. In the villages in India, I have seen many and also in England I’ve seen many very simple people. But the more you think, then the more you complicated you become.

Q: Where is the limit between normal and abnormal – the border?

Shri Mataji: You need not worry on that point. What it happens that once you start thinking about it, again you become abnormal. So better not start the chain of thinking. But I would say when you become the Spirit you start seeing the abnormality in a person that clearly because at that awareness, you just see that a person is behaving in a very abnormal way because you see the abnormality at the center. You do not see to the symptoms but to the source of abnormality after realization. At this stage you cannot verify but at the stage when you reach and you see the centers, then you see the abnormality so clearly because you can see the centers.

And also, you see the balance. You see, in one hand if you have too much vibration and in another there are no vibrations, that means there is an imbalance. So you understand also that there is an imbalance in you. With the vibrations, you can make out if they are flowing normally in both the hands; then you are normal.

Comment: The lady says that she is new and she doesn’t feel vibrations in hand.

Shri Mataji: You will, just now. We are going to have that session. [aside remark: The gentleman – is he going to come back or has he gone forever?] Because just have the session now of realization and then you feel it.

[Unclear comment/question]

Shri Mataji: That we’ll see now. All right? That’s behind the [unclear]. We’ll see that now, how it happens.

Q: When you go out of your body, what does it mean?

Shri Mataji: Oh! That one? No, you are not to go out of your body. You have to be very much …

Everything can be reversed. You have done this. The question is, how you do it, isn’t it? It’s a point. Is that the point you are asking? [unclear] Yeah! Simple – simple I’ll tell you why. It simply [unclear].

There is a deity, say the deity of Christ within us. Yeah? What happens that when you are moving to the left or to the right you get indulged by these spirits. Your body is taken away or whatever happens to you because of the spirit. Now if this deity can be awakened here, at Agnya Chakra, it sucks it – your ego and superego – and in the superego, all these entities are there; they just run away. So in your awareness if they are there, they just run away if Christ is awakened here.

You see, to start, kundalini awakening looks so simple. It’s like that. You raise your hands towards your Sahastrara. There is a big organization behind it. There is a big happening behind it. See, all the deities get enlightened and that’s why it works out. Otherwise it doesn’t.

All the deities get awakened with it and that’s how they get effect and then when you say the mantra you address to the deity in another person. Because you are awakened, your deity is awakened, you can awaken the deity of another person.

You say that Christ died for our sin. What does that mean? Or that is for our Karma. So when He is awakened, He sucks in all that. That’s His part. And these are all deities placed within us in all these centers. This you can know from the little books we have. All right?

[Question]

Yes! There are. You see, every center has a mantra. Every deity is a mantra. So supposing here is Lord’s Prayer. [unclear comment] There are. Mahavishnu. Christ is called as Mahavishnu. It’s a pattern in which you have to read that mantra and then it works out. Mahavishnu is the name of Christ.

[Question]

We’ll tell you everything. There is no secret in Sahaja Yoga. Everything we are going to tell you. Of course, we see also how far you can go. You see, certain things are not told. Supposing there’s a Christian coming here and you tell him the name of [Unclear]. You’ll have it? Or if we tell a Hindu who is a staunch Hindu and you tell him there is Christ, you see, he’ll think that this is something like the spread of Christianity. So one has to see how far people can accept the truth, you see, and if they can accept, everything can be told to them. But some people just cannot accept. That’s the problem with them because there are attached to this or [unclear]. All right? But you must know gradually about these mantras. You must master them. You can master these mantras. Once you say it, it’s done. Just say it. It is done. Then master it. First, realization, of course, but then you master them. You can be the master of mantra. Any mantra you can start. All right?

We have some other methods also which are told to people once they come to Sahaja Yoga, which you call as puja and all that, but normally we don’t call people who are still little half-baked because, you see, they go amuck. They can’t bear it. You see, like people crucifying Christ sort of a thing happens to them, you see. But if you think that they are all right, even if they have some problems – doesn’t matter – but mentally they are all right, then we call them for these higher awakening to the mass. It works out but if they are not so surrendered or if they haven’t got that much of understanding of Sahaja Yoga, if they are not surrendered to God, then it is for us to take some time to expose it to them. But some people overnight they come over and they just jump into it and become masters. I have known many like that.

Also about My nature or anything, you don’t discuss it with everyone, you see. If somebody says that, “How can you do it?” – supposing somebody says – so I say, “All right, you better do it.” We don’t say what I am, why am I doing this, what is so special about Me, in the beginning, no. I am just like you. I am worst than you because I don’t know driving, I don’t know this, I don’t know that. So that, so that nobody is challenged, you see. Then gradually they themselves start seeing things then [unclear].

Should we have now realization? All right. Take off your shoes. Just for five to ten minutes and then it will work out. Just put your hands towards Me like this and close your eyes.

[Aside remarks]

[inaudible] sense of smell because both left and right, because both smell bad – left and right – but one has a very sort of a smell of a very stagnated personality and another has a smell of a, say, jaise pasina (Hindi word: like sweat – ed.) – burning sharp smell, haan (Hindi word : Yes – ed.), sharp, pungent. [inaudible] like if you put the blanket, you see at the bottom, keep it hanging. It smells horrible, like that stagnated ammonia types. That’s all. But then this side all fragrance. This side on your vibrations, it’s better. That’s all right.

So now the combinations of all the muscles because the muscles all [unclear] comes from Mooladhara. So this combinations would be, you see, which one [unclear]. For example, if Mooladhara, left Mooladhara is catching, left Nabhi, left Mooladhara, left Nabhi, left side, this is a very bad combination. Left Mooladhara, left Nabhi, left Swadhisthana and heart is a bad combination. Because even if you have these three things, if your heart is all right, then the Spirit is right. So it can control all these things. But if you have in addition to that, even left Agnya, then definitely you’ll have one of those incurable diseases like mellitus. So for mellitus patients or for cancer patients, for all such incurable patients, you have left side problems.

Cancer can be divided into various [unclear : sounds like – faces OR phases]. Like you can have cancer, say, of the uterus. It’s the combination of Swadhisthana and Mooladhara and left Nabhi, left Swadisthana. So you give it a bandhan on these three chakras separately, then tie them together with fire, with a [unclear] tie them, go on tying. First of all, of course, you have to raise, as I have told, the right side to the left. Do it about seven times and then after doing that you bring it to any chakra. Then you tie them up together – three of them together – and then put two together and then two together and then all of them together – the tying up, you see – and then take it out like that. Tying up. With that tying up you will find that they will have no place to go [unclear] and you’ll be surprised that they [unclear]. It will clear.

But at that time, the best thing would be to have a candle with My photograph behind it. It is the best if you can [device or devise] a method in which you will have a candle in the front and the photograph behind so that vibrations are flowing all the time. But at other time what you can do is to put the candle and one hand towards the photograph and right hand you can use so that vibrations are flowing. Best would be to have the candle in such a place. Behind it you can also fix my photograph, with the candle and the photograph together , if you could make some device. I mean, in India you can.

Speaker: We have mirrors behind candle. We can remove the mirror…

Shri Mataji: Yes, instead of the mirror you can have a photograph. That would be better.

Speaker: Instead of the mirror, if the candle is in front and the picture is at the back, you see a special candle stick which can have both Shri Mataji’s photograph and the candle on it.

Shri Mataji: That would be very effective . Otherwise, for other normal people, what they have to do is to put the candle with left hand towards the candle. Right hand you have another candle and photograph, that’s all. Right hand you have another candle and go on doing like that. It can work out that way also but if this combination is not all right [unclear]. So best is to have direct, if you can, but this also will work out. Even just giving bandhans will stop it but this is a very quick method, flame. If you have fire also you can. It’s very good to do on the fire. If there is fire burning, ask the person to put the left side towards the photograph and right in the fire. It will clear and the photograph should have a candle also. So put the left hand towards the photograph and right hand there. It will clear out.

For the Mooladhara, it is better to sit on the ground, you see, just like we have a camp fire. In a camp fire we can sit on the ground, Mother Earth, and have some fire. You can do it in the summer time – it’s all right. Clear out the Mooladhara.

[Mother talks about Scouts’ Tent and huge pandals, about the expenses etc. Not hiring large pandals used for marriages but smaller ones will be cheaper to hire separately for ladies, gents and others]

So the second point is about the Swadhisthana. It’s the most complicated. Left Swadhisthana is [unclear] due to fake Guru or unauthorized things but fake Guru it will be Swadhisthana plus [unclear]. But if it is purely left Swadhisthana then you will get [unclear]. That’s the easiest. It is pure with someone like that. But left Swadhisthana can have all kinds of combinations. Say, for example, left Swadhisthana and Mooladhara. You can get paralysis of the legs for no reasons. You might get arthritis. But for arthritis, they have to have left Nabhi. [inaudible] With Swadhisthana you can get paralysis of the legs. Left Swadhisthana, Mooladhara – it’s very dangerous also in some ways because you may develop very dirty methods of perverted – like, extremely satanical, you can say, Pishaach (Hindi word). You see, left side is pishaachik. What is it called? Pishaachik?

Speaker: Demonic?

Shri Mataji: No, Demonic is of the right side type of a – demonic is aggressive but Paishaachik is a person who is like a pashu, who is like an animal – bestial. But I mean beasts are normal. Bestiality. All right. So they indulge into such things and they can do this to others also. They can find out ways. It’s more like a worm, you see, such of people are fond of eating faeces, you see – all kinds of things, you know. Dirty people – absolutely devilish. I mean, maut se bhi bhattar (Hindi word : worse than death – ed.). They like bad smells and they like to smell the gutters, this, that. But they would not like to smell the flowers, sort of thing. That’s left side. Like people who do the washing of the latrines and all that, then they become like that. They don’t smell anything dirty. They are just like an animal, you can say. Nothing is dirty for them. They will eat the food lying on the street – they won’t mind. I mean, dirty people. And as a result of those habits, they might develop something.

Speaker: It goes to Nabhi?

Shri Mataji: It can go anywhere. But what I am saying, basically it is an activity which is sly, which is secretive, which is low.

Like you see there are, say, flirts. Must be because can’t have sex actually – flirts. Then also all the perversions, you know, that you study about these people is like, say there is a young girl but they can’t flirt with a young girl so they’ll flirt with the wives sort of nonsense they do within that [unclear : sounds like – border]. They flirt with the mother because they can’t flirt with the young girl who is sitting there, you see. As soon as they see a young girl, they start flirting with the wife. What do you call that kind of a thing – displacement thing?

Speaker: It’s a typical psychology, Mother. Freud entirely spoke about it. This whole psychology is based on the theory of displacement.

Shri Mataji: It’s true, very true. I have seen people doing it. But what is the reason in this? He says it’s a good idea?

Speaker: He says it’s a good idea.

Shri Mataji: It’s sickness. That is the sign of sickness because you are dealing with your mind.

Speaker: You mind become – that is the thing, Shri Mataji. What happens is, now it’s clear to see is that you have a desire, for some reason, either because of cowardice or something, you do not express that desire, but instead of killing that desire, you twist it – wrong twist, you see. You shift it into another direction and if you cannot fulfill it, you give it another twist. So if you have a desire for person A, because you cannot go to person A, you go to person B who reminds you of person A but you have no real interest in person B. So you get frustrated. So you go to person C and it’s twisted and twisted and twisted, you know.

Shri Mataji: No, but this desire is actually artificial. I will tell you how. Say you see some, all sorts of advertisement, read book, this that, everywhere. Then you form an image. It’s an image that you follow. It’s an image that you follow, artificial image. It doesn’t exist in reality. Now you think of a woman who is young – it could be you own daughter who is young, you see – and seeing this young daughter, you might feel this desire for your wife. It’s not a very clean thing, you see.

Speaker: Ha! Now I see what you mean, Shri Mataji. That takes place in our culture a lot. There are many examples [inaudible] between husband and wife.

Shri Mataji: Husband and wife. You see, normally the husband won’t feel that for the wife but if there is a young girl sitting or a young woman sitting or even a daughter, then he feels. That is, it’s a very debase sort of a thing – such a sly stuff . But it is actually, it is a possession. In this case it’s a possession.

Speaker : The other extreme relationship is, Shri Mataji, in our culture is that both husband and wife together will go into such a situation, let us say – I cannot give example – which will inflame this desire in both of them.

Shri Mataji: Also it is filth. It is imagination and filth. Because what happens, there is no joy and a child produced out of such relationship – what will be the child of such hallucination? After all, the child is produced after two persons have met on the level –

Speaker: Spiritual level…

Shri Mataji: No, not spiritual. You can call it, but in the present in reality, you see, because mind plays a part and the manas is on the left so it’s always deluded. You do things in delusion, you see. So you don’t take the responsibility of the child or the relationship. The whole thing is so funny, you see. There is no reality behind it. This is absurd.

Speaker: This is the basis of all mental illness, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Mental sex is that. This is madness. This is real madness. This is the sign of madness. Child can be born mad in such a family or such husband-wife relationship. Where you see the marriage is a reality, it is a reality, it is not fantasy. It’s not some sort of a romanticism that you place one into another and imagine and change that this is another woman and you have relation with another woman. It is not possible. If you do like that, your mind is somewhere else. You are somewhere else. It has an effect on the mind of a child. So the child that is born itself would be any sort of a person, with the mind which is not normal, could be a mind who is mad, could be a mind who is depressed, can be anything, such a child.

Speaker: This sort of a behavior, Shri Mataji, is considered normal in the West. If you read any of the magazines, even on psychology text books, the magazines so often people write.

Shri Mataji: Mooladhara [unclear : sounds like – has been made into] evil, I tell you. The Mooladhara attention is absolutely evil in the West. I mean, it’s really evil to human beings, no doubt. The whole concept is absolutely wickedness. It’s wickedness.

Speaker: That means each generation is getting more completely destroyed.

Shri Mataji: That’s what I am saying. The whole thing is nothing but wickedness, of some sort of an evil doer who has put these ideas, and that’s why Mr Freud I believe ….

Speaker: Mr. Freud, and the writers of Playboys. Freud started it. Freud made it respectable. First of all it was not respectable. People did it but they were ashamed of this attitude…

Shri Mataji: Accha, is that so? I don’t know what they do. But whatever it is. I’ll just give you an example because I have seen this happening among some of the so-called elite people here. So that’s what I felt that they see a young girl and suddenly you’ll find that they are very nice to their wives. I have seen it because, you see, My seeing is different na. But in that it’s not the play of so much of a possession, you can say, always, but could be the person himself is [unclear: sounds like – loose, can’t read himself]. You see, that kind of a nonsense. May be possession, may not be – it’s not definite. You cannot say [unclear] it will go. Such a person has to be alert.

Speaker: But you said this morning, Shri Mataji, that these things becomes a part of your mind – these possessions…

Shri Mataji: Possession could be taken off but this becomes a habit. See, possessions can give you habits and can disappear and there could be you might form your habits as a result because you are enjoying that kind of a nonsense. Everything that is imaginary is not possessions. Everything that is imaginary is not possession. That’s your own perception – mental perception. This is a kind of a thing that is extremely abnormal for any righteous person – absolutely abnormal – and a person who leads such a creates problem for the whole society.

So left side is the physical side as far as the triggering of these diseases are concerned but mainly it spoils the mind. So if you have the left Swadhisthana spoilt and left Mooladhara, you are vulnerable absolutely for a mental disease – vulnerable apart from physical; vulnerable for mental diseases. You might get all these troubles of schizophrenia, this, that. Even if your left Swadhisthana is spoilt by any chance, you are in for it.

But if in addition there is Mooladhara then you are definitely vulnerable. But what happens that in the left side, the mind, how it gets into problems because you see first of all the left side makes you lethargic. So your mind stops working in the sense that it doesn’t think that what I have to do. It’s like, what you call, Mind, a devil’s workshop [Hindi : woh kya tha – what was that?]. You develop idleness. Idleness makes you think, you see. Now what to do with idleness? You can’t carry on with idleness. You get bored with idleness. So this idleness makes your organs idle, but this manas – there is no English word for it – the mind is intellect. Two things we can put it: manas or this side is the pranav shakti. So we can say manas – left side, the manas.

The manas starts going into all these things like these perversions and all that. The movement of the manas on the left side [inaudible]. For example if you are drinker [unclear: sounds like – rude OR prude], then you don’t see your sister as a sister; then you don’t see your mother as a mother. You can’t [unclear]. You see, all the values are lost in three generations. In the first generation you gain this nonsense [unclear]. Second generation also, third generation, it happens. How is it? In Indian it is not conceivable that a boy can have any such infatuation for a mother knowingly – impossible!

And here why is it so much? Because drinking is so common in the West. With drinking it happens but in primitive classes it’s absolutely a rule. Among primitive people it’s a rule. It’s actually a rule. They have lots of compulsions. In jungles the primitives, they – can you see – there is no problem. They are anarchist. They have no such – they are just like animals. So that’s there. But even if you drink, what happens is that part of pashuta ( Hindi word : animal-like qualities – ed.), that part of animal does come in you that you don’t see your sister as your sister. All sublimity dissolves. All sublimity dissolves.

This is the thing that on the left side when the sublimity dissolves, you see, there is no ascent because the movement is all that side. Then when you get possessed on that movement then you can get all other combination. Left Nabhi you can get. Left Nabhi can be caught, as you know, that left Nabhi can be triggered by a horrible woman in the house. A woman who is not religious, a woman who is materialistic – any sort of thing – left Nabhi. Anyone who is a lower level type of a person or any sort can develop left Nabhi.

Now with left Nabhi, you see, you are always agitated in that relationship. You are not balanced in that relationship. You may tolerate. You may say, “It’s all right. I have to go through this,” but the agitation is always there. That agitation causes the left Nabhi to grow into a problem. Left Nabhi, you see, is our spleen. It goes into this thing. Those mothers who have these problems can get children whose spleen is absolutely lethargic. Cannot produce any blood cells – anemia, a leukemia, some sort of a thing happens. Leukemia can be solved, you can say; can come.

But it is due to the mind. This is due to the mind of the mother or the mind of the father also. If the father is a flirt, he is a badmaash (Hindi word : wicked – ed.) and all that, his son can get it. Is all mind is very powerful. Manas is very powerful because you go to the left. Flirting also is the sign of left side – absolute left side. Flirting, not the actual. If a rapist, he is the right side but the flirt is the left side, absolutely the left sided, in the sense that he is absolutely impotent [unclear : sounds like – greatly], impotent and you see it goes into his mind – romantic fellow, all this nonsense. There is no reality – only flirts with women this thing. But also it may happen with people who are over-energetic can also become flirts because what happens that they are so energetic that they have no attention on their sex. Then the sex enters into their mind – the other side of their mind, the ego part – and then it can be used for ego purposes.

But a flirt, you see, is a funny type of a flirt – likes to show off his body, tries to show off his body, is the left sided. A flirt who uses his eyes, you see, and if something reminds of mothers and sort of pricks his ego on that and “I don’t know so many women are after me,” that’s another thing. So it’s an abnormal combination. When he becomes over-active physically what happens that he becomes impotent as a result because all his activities were his mental activities. Even sex is a mental activity. Even religion is a mental activity. Everything becomes a mental activity. It’s another mythical world of supraconscious. Religion means get up, go to the Church, sit on [unclear: sounds like – your head] very seriously, this, that – finished – come back, sit down, get your baptism, sit down like a fool and read the Bible, argue it out and say, “This is the dogma that I can think of.” Nowhere near the truth. That’s also a mental activity.

Fantasy it is and then it can be fanatics that side. So the fanatics could be absolutely impotent. They have no interest in sex. They don’t like the idea of sex. If anybody talks openly, they don’t like it but with eyes they will do. But if anybody mentions it, “Oh! This one? It’s nonsense,” but with the eyes they’ll do. That’s the ego style but this is another type where a man exposes his body. Women specially, they like to expose their bodies. I mean, imagine! This is left side – exposure of body. But to control other men and to use your body for that purpose is right-sided. But some even very slyly they do this. This is very sly manner.

Speaker: I have seen, it’s what they call a seductive style they have. Even they don’t expose their body, they speak in such a way that you are caught in some sort of a …

Shri Mataji: They may not even speak. You see, their gestures are such…

Speaker: They make you – first thing they do is illicit sympathy. First thing they do is they awaken sympathy and then before you know where you are, you are caught in something like a spider’s web and they do not want anything from you. They just suck your energies.

Shri Mataji: Left sided ones, they can do – I mean all these things but the result of all these things – that’s what we have to see as we have to cure them. All such people suffer from mental problems. They might have wobbling in the stomach because of the uterus. There could be barren women. They will have problems with their periods very much. They will not have their periods regularly. They may have irregular periods – all sorts of thing where the uterus is the mother’s place. So the mother who is disturbed or debased in any way, not respected, you can have problems with the uterus also.

Speaker: What about [unclear : sounds like – oral OR corals] contraceptive [unclear : sounds like – oral OR corals] apart from tablets. Here that is quite common in the West to control.

Shri Mataji: I have no idea as to that but that’s not so bad [unclear : sounds like – – rotation] medication is not so bad but to take medicines for that is not good – periods and all that. But more is to see – slowly, slowly you see in Sahaja Yoga when you rise they build up a rhythm of it, you see, a rhythmic. It’s better to have it rhythmic, you see, to arrange a rhythm. So that’s a better way of doing it in a rhythm where you know this time is free sort of thing is better. But this coil also is I don’t think is any harm. After all, irritation is not so much. It becomes superficial but other things should be avoided like taking pills and all that is absolutely wrong. Pills and all that must be stopped.

Speaker : The young women of even 14 to 16 coming in are being on the pill, Mother. Such little girls, really. They start so early.

Shri Mataji : Because mothers, you know, don’t want to take the responsibility of the girl [inaudible]. I mean, you see they don’t know these things at all. In the city at the most we don’t have these problems, you see, because we don’t have so much of a exposure of sex, you see. We don’t talk of sex. I mean, innocent people, they are innocent. So if you are innocent you don’t have to. But imagine from this how many dangers are there. First of all, it’s very unnatural to have a child very early because they are not matured enough and you are not married. So the child is placed in a very difficult situation. [aside remark] So that kind of a thing is among Sahaja Yogis we have to understand that our children, we should bring up in such a way that they are very innocent.

Try to keep them innocent – more with the flowers and with animals and all that and in such a way that they do not see all these things which are excitable by young. But if it is so, then what? If a child is like this then what is the treatment for a thing like this? If the child has too much interest in these things, if he is right-sided, he has interest like this, best thing is give him cold water bath and things, you see. Give more cold water baths. Make him sit in the water tub for a while with some salt and all that. That can help. Sandalwood paste at the Mooladhara will be good idea to cool him down so the excitement is much less and then you can put him left to the right – put him down.

But if it is a sly way of doing things and all that, then you can use fire. (Hindi : ajwain smoke is given during childhood -ed. ) In India it’s very common, they give ajwain, you see. Put the ajwain and put the child over that one, you see – smoke of the ajwain. It’s antiseptic and anti-bhoots and anti-everything. Just put the child on the ajwain and it takes away all the bhoots from them .

It’s very clean. So that’s what they do. For children it is good but also for elders it is very good to take it that way just to get rid of all this funny thing. Because Mooladhara is the support of all being. So to keep it clean and nice, any combination with it can be very deep and lasting. It’s very deep and lasting. You can’t get rid of it very easy. That’s why Mooladhara [unclear] and if somebody has Mooladhara you give the bandhan to Mooladhara. If you go to the combinations higher, say left Nabhi, as I told you, you get blood cancer. You get diabetes from left Nabhi because that’s all contained in left Nabhi. Also you can get lethargic liver – left Nabhi combination with Swadhisthana. With Swadhisthana, left Nabhi, this combination is, these things can occur.

Then we go ahead of that is the troubles like, say, diabetes cause left Nabhi is for diabetes. Now diabetes is not caused as a result of lethargic ways of the pancreas but it is actually over-active pancreas becomes lethargic – overactive. You see what happens – we think too much. Pancreas, what does it do is to convert sugar into digestible – what does it convert into? What it does is to digest the sugar in a way or it neutralizes into glucose; it breaks up.

Speaker: I’ll tell you what it does. The endocrine part of the pancreas which causes diabetes, that converts the sugar into glycodin that stores the sugar in the body in the form of glucon or glycogen.

Shri Mataji: Stores the sugar as well as it also must be reducing it.

Speaker: It reduces the level in the blood. It puts it into the cells of the body.

Shri Mataji: So what happens that when you are using your thinking too much or liver too much then what happens that the sugar is consumed fast because of the liver, you see. If liver is over-active, it means sugar. Then the liver is sucked and when it is too much sucked then more is poured over by this pancreas. Glycogen is more poured. It goes into over-activity. When it goes to overactive then it gets diagnosed and no more – finished. Then it says that [unclear: sounds like – we have] diabetes. So it becomes lethargic. But it is over-activity that brings this lethargy.

Speaker: Yeah, this is correct because one of the functions of insulin is to increase the uptake of sugar by the liver.

Shri Mataji: Means it doesn’t secrete insulin any more. See, it has an activity of secreting insulin. Now it has a limited energy of producing insulin. I mean, if you exhaust it so where to get the insulin? So you have to put the insulin additional. This is the artificial thing. But you can cure diabetes by raising the left to the right because there you raise it – awaken – left to the right. Now right to the left you should not do in diabetes, though it is the same thing as right to the left, but first you try to raise it if possible.

If there is still some life left in that thing – absolutely there is some life left – then what happens is that it may start working. It starts working because when it starts pumping, the energy from the Swadhisthana can flow because now it’s in connection with the divine power. So that can be sucked in. So it starts working out. But supposing now it is in such a shape that it is absolutely finished, exhausted, I mean, it doesn’t rise. Then you have to put right to the left and tell Adi Shakti to play her part; so She awakens it first. Adi Shakti to work it out. First you try to raise it with your own Self, with your own hand, your own kundalini, on the left to the right.

Try to give it a sort of a little [unclear: sounds like – teaser OR tweezer], you can say. But still it may not rise; it may not. So in certain cases, diabetes is curable if you put it left to the right or if it is a bad case, then you have to put right to the left. Like cases like infantile diabetes.

Speaker: Diabetes is very common amongst Parsees, very common in Jews…

Shri Mataji: You see, diabetes will be very common in any country which is over-developed, very rich. It is the disease of the affluence. (Hindi : More the affluence – more is the intake of sugar.) They take more sugar than normal, those who are affluent.

Also apart from that sugar what they do, they think too much. Sometimes human being diet – don’t take sugar. Don’t take sugar but think. Then they will get diabetes.

Question: Why do children get diabetes?

Shri Mataji: Children because the parents are like that. The blood – you see, the parents, the pattern – every blood has a pattern and the message. Every person’s blood has a pattern and a message. It carries the complete – you see it is the habit of a cell – is molded by the kind of a personality you have. And now the mother’s blood goes into the child’s blood. So the same pattern is carried there and that blood, you see, circulates. If mother is like that, you see – she has diabetes – the child has. If the father has also, if it is a son, the son will get it, not women. Women do not get so much of diabetes. Normally woman don’t get it. But if there are women, you see, like politicians and all that or those who are manly women, even woman housewives who plan too much about their house hold – what to cook and how to entice the husband, you see – they also can have.

Then there is pancreas and spleen. Spleen diseases – I’ve told you, leukemia and all that. So for that how to cure? Best for diabetes is to use salt. Sea bath. Sitting in the sea – sea bath. And for diabetes, another thing which is very good is to have little pumping of our hands. I mean, you are a realized soul. Supposing you find somebody has diabetes, so you locate the pancreas, you see. Just try to little bit tickle it like that, you see. The pancreas, you can feel the pancreas. The doctors can feel it. Just give it a little tickle. And for a Sahaja Yogi, it is easy to locate. Wherever there is a problem, you’ll find a lumpy spot. But only Sahaja Yogis can feel because they are subtle. Doctors may not. A lump, see, you can find a lump here. For Me, all lumps are nothing but my chakras working. I am talking about diabetes. You see, My chakras are working like a diabetic patient.

Now this diabetes gives you a problem here because Swadhisthana goes around here also. So when you have a Mooladhara and a Swadhisthana, then you have a problem here at the back. So you get eyesight problem.

Suddenly you’ll find some people absolutely blind in the eyes only. Now what you do is to put a candle before my photograph and put little sindoor on the head and give it a proper – what you call a – pradakshina style of a bandhan through the back side with a flame, with a flame; that’s very important. Flame should be used – nothing else – and you will be surprised, people will start seeing. I mean, somebody started seeing in Geneva. First she saw My red mark. Then she saw My face. Then she started seeing. But if it is left Swadhisthana, and right Swadhisthana because of pancreas and Mooladhara, then it is a provision, I’d say. Then it takes more time. But as you will know your hands will give the flame. So for pancreas it may show right Swadhisthana also – depends on at what position you are. Supposing it is over-activity of the pancreas is going on, then you get right Swadhisthana. But if you are lethargic, then finished. Then you just clean the left Swadhisthana. But normally both you see in pancreas; you can see both. So you get a lethargic or over-active pancreas or you can get even the same with the spleen.

Now you say the spleen that is over-active. It’s the one that makes it absolutely lethargic with over-activity and then that inactivity brings forth this leukemia business because the triggering takes place. It becomes, you see, sort of hopeless and starts depending on some help and then the bhoots come in to help it. They start triggering it. When they start triggering, they do it the way they are. So it starts becoming bigger and bigger because it is not in relation with the whole any more. Like a person who is tired now, he sits down. There is a demon who comes. He moves with his speed. It’s like that and that’s why cancer is caused.

Do you follow My point? Because when these people attack, they have their own speed, their own rhythm which has nothing to do with the rhythm of the body sort of a – they become so this thing, that if somebody lifts them up and they start using them. That’s how cancer is caused, when you reach that state of over-activity .

Now you can say for the void – peritoneum – void. But the worst is that if void is caught on both the sides, that is, if you think you are a guru or you have used some methods to be the guru or you have tried to put something and also go to some guru or, I mean, accept somebody as a guru. Both way if it works out then you get a compete Ekadasha on that. Then the activity of the cancer is much more. The reason I’ll tell you. The reason is very interesting. This reason you must know is the vaani, you see, is the sound. Sound that moves or the kundalini that moves, you see, later on making sound but first the sound is there. So the sound rises first before the kundalini. Om, you can say, starts moving when there is kundalini. What happens that the flow stops here of the sound. So it is para. First of all the vaani is para. You can’t hear it and then it comes up to Madhyamarga. Then it starts throbbing here showing it can’t go any further in that stage, and when that throbbing starts spreading, actually your attention is dropped left side. That’s the danger sign. Then you find this throbbing here in the sternum, below the sternum, in the stomach area, you can say, [unclear]….cardiac at this point you find it, dhak dhak dhak dhak.

So you can also do one thing at that time. It’s easier to put your right hand on there now and then you put your left hand on the center of the heart and ask the person to hold his breath and go on saying Devi’s mantra. The dhak dhak will rise. Then you lift the right hand. Put it on to Vishuddhi and take Shri Krishna’s name till this dhak, this throbbing, comes here. Then you take it higher here and then you put it higher to the Sahastrara. It comes out. That’s one way of clearing out if you find any throbbing there. It’s a very important part. Did you follow that?

Speaker: This sound is Omkara, is it?

Shri Mataji: It’s Omkara. It’s an Omkara which is para, which is not heard. It’s beyond but it becomes heard here because it starts, you see, it has an obstruction. The one that is all-pervading everywhere, it is existing already there. What happens that sound – everything has a sound inside, you see, but it’s silent. This silent sound becomes active because it has an obstruction. Say, for example, if I hit this it gives a sound.

Speaker: The kundalini is Omkara, is it?

Shri Mataji: That is also Omkara. Kundalini is also Omkara. But that sound which already is present in the body, this sound becomes active in the sense when you, percussion happens, when the percussion happens …

Speaker: When the kundalini strikes that is …

Shri Mataji: No, no. Kundalini has nothing to do with this at this stage. Kundalini has nothing to do.

Speaker: The body is also Omkara also, isn’t it?

Shri Mataji: I mean, you can say so. AUM – these are the three things that is working at it, you see. The whole thing is working on A – U – M. It’s all Brahma Shakti, the Brahma Shakti which is already present within us; otherwise we won’t exist. So what are the Brahma Shaktis within us, are the three shaktis are there. But what happens actually when it integrates because of the Spirit, we call the Spirit is Omkara. All right? Now the kundalini is the three Shaktis together but manifested within us. Also these three separate Shaktis are there. When, you see, the attention is enraged or you can say the attention cannot find its movement everywhere, then it starts hitting you there and then also with percussion. This is the percussion but the Anahata is without percussion.

You see, if I hit this it will make a sound. All right? But there is a sound must be in this; otherwise how does it make a sound? It must come from somewhere.

Speaker: Now I understand. The sound is inherent in the substance.

Shri Mataji: Of course, but it’s silent.

Speaker: But something can trigger it so it becomes a sound.

Shri Mataji: Anahata is a sound which is without the [unclear: sounds like – pressure OR presence] in the sound.

Speaker: Which is inherent in the vibrations of the substance’s sound.

Shri Mataji: It just makes a sound. But the trouble is the sound, we can’t hear it. Of course, some of the sounds we can’t hear it because our ears are not made for that. That’s different. But the sound that is in our body we can’t hear. Can you? Everything is going on. We don’t hear any sound. It’s not all the sounds are outside. But when the attention is hitting something then the sound is made. You can hear. That is the percussion. But actually this heart is without percussion. Natural sound is without percussion. Only in the heart it is manifested, as it’s called as pashyanti where it just cease. So it is.

Speaker: Shri Mataji, according to this would you say all sounds is an indication of disturbance of the attention?

Shri Mataji: All artificial sounds. You see, normally there is no sound.

Speaker: You see, because I used to notice in [unclear: sounds like – Derby] that wherever there was a lot of sound around like lawn mowers or cars or something, my liver would hurt and the attention would be diverted.

Shri Mataji: No, but that sound should not be so disturbing to a person who is in the center, you see. It is more a mental activity here, I think, so much of mental activity. Your brain is like bonbonbon. Any more sound, you see, that upsets you. To Indians, it does not so much because this brain is so much going on like this all the time, you see. Bom bom bom bom bom, it’s going on. You put a little sound and oh! they can’t take it – too much for them.

But actually that is not so severe. The activity is so much that you can’t bear any sound but with all that activity you don’t hear the sound in your head. See, blood is flowing all that you don’t hear any sound, you see, because it’s all neutralized. Absolutely there is no imbalance. But when there is an imbalance, the sound starts. You then start hearing the sound.

Speaker: What I was trying to say, Shri Mataji, is that in this world there is so much sound. What is that sound? Is that sound a manifestation of imbalance?

Shri Mataji: No, that is percussion. That is with percussion. The sound comes from percussion. No, that is a sound that comes from percussion, any percussion. Without percussion there is no sound.

Speaker: But what causes that percussion?

Shri Mataji: That percussion can be human, can be any percussion.

Speaker : But that’s not the sign of imbalance…

Shri Mataji: No, in a way it is. Because when it is silent it is not at all touched but if you touch it then there is a percussion created. That sound is only in the heart – that is Anahata – without percussion. Only the heart has. Why? Because of the spirit…

Speaker: So the whole Universe is Anahata and out of this Anahata, on top of that is placed percussion.

Shri Mataji: Everything is in para – para Shakti potential.

Let’s say a man becomes mad. How will you make it out? You’ll get a throbbing here and throbbing there – just the opposite of Me. If a man is mad I’ll also get a throbbing, but I’ll not be mad. On the contrary, I’ll be producing anti-vaccine, you see – antibodies in my head or anti-things, anti-effective things. So if he’s a mad man, you’ll see he’ll have a throb. If you have a bad throat you will find a throb.

Speaker: So any sort of throbbing…

Shri Mataji: Obstruction come on the way [Hindi]

Speaker: Now let’s take a third form – Vaikari. Now that we do consciously. Like when you are doing Puja or reciting mantra, it is Vaikari.

Shri Mataji : Now, here, you see, it passes through your sound box. It’s like a bansuri (Hindi word: flute – ed.). It passes through an aperture. Because of that, that air or that sound which is silent, that is flowing, you see, because of that movement here, gets into a – this is the nada – becomes the sound – here Vaikari.

Speaker: What is the importance of this sound, Shri Mataji, in the economy of the Spirit? Economy – I don’t know what word to use. What is the importance of this Vaikari to this atma?

Shri Mataji: Atma? This Vaikari? Vaikari has all the consonants, all the vowels, you see. All the vowels are produced here. Without a vowel no mantra can be said and without the mantras, no deities can be awakened. So the spirit in every deity has to be awakened. So the spirit of the sound resides here.

Speaker: But supposing you reach the stage where the whole Om is flowing through the whole Sushumna. Then it is not necessary to use Vaikari anymore. Is that right?

Shri Mataji: No, only chitta can work out. Even chitta is not [unclear]. They’ll look after, I mean, I don’t really, to be really frank [unclear] In my conscious mind I am not bothered. But I have built this up. You see all the mehenat (Hindi word : hard work – ed.) I have done before, you see. But now here as you have put up the thing, nobody knows what I have done. Only I have to put the lights on, and very nice. But I have done the job also but now I don’t have to worry so much. I just put the button on.

Speaker: Mother, when we feel the pain from somebody who is sick when we think we are curing it, actually we are doing it by asking you to increase the flow from that part in You.

Shri Mataji: Yes, you are awakening that.

Speaker: We are awakening it in You. We are not awakening in ourselves.

Shri Mataji: No, no, in yourselves. You see because when you, mind is all the time awakened. But what happens that by saying that whatever is awakened in Me is there in you and then you reflect on the other person.

Speaker: We also produce antibodies.

Shri Mataji: Of course, of course, you do. You are realized souls. What do you think? You are sanctified people – not only produce but you are sanctified. You can do wonders but now what to do now? (translated from Hindi – ed.). You are still [unclear: sounds like – ripe / unripe?].

Speaker:…you see in Jamshedpore, Shri Mataji, I used to notice this whenever there is a problem in Jamshedpore, what I used to do even not with me in my neighborhood or something, I’ll just go silent and I feel these antibodies will be coming out and in one or two days everything will be sorted out .

Shri Mataji: Yes. You see, you just have to think of it, ask for it. After all, Adi Shakti herself has given you the license. How many people have got from Adi Shakti? All My powers I have given. Just accept Me. Just surrender. Surrender means what? Accept Me means what? You exploit Me. Tell you very frankly the word is “exploit”. What is there to surrender? What do you have to surrender? Isn’t it? What you are doing is to exploit Me completely. But not the way the Portuguese have done. Portuguese are the limit, I would think. I tell you it is the last thing I could think. I really…

Speaker: What should we do about Ghent [inaudible]?

Shri Mataji: I don’t know what to do with that.

Speaker: Something has to be sorted out. Otherwise they’ll be in a big mess and our whole center will go into …

Shri Mataji: I feel that way. That’s what I feel. Money, I don’t mind. We’ll manage somehow. You can do some little bit here and there to show C.P. I can manage it. We can so some hanky-panky but what to do about them? Basically they are the ones who are going to be hurt.

Speaker: And if they are hurt the whole center will suffer.

Shri Mataji: Hmm. All right. Tell them, Gavin, that you have to keep some money for Mother out of whatever you all – you must keep some money or what they can do now they are getting these things. We’ll keep them here. We’ll try to sell them or do something. We’ll say you cannot just take advantage. And you told them some percentage has to be kept or something?

Speaker: They are quite willing to do it. Ricardo is still with us. [unclear]

Shri Mataji: Yes, of course. He has no money to go back. You know that?

Speaker: I thought he is thinking of going to America or something.

Shri Mataji: America?

Speaker: There was talk of going to America just to …

Shri Mataji: See now, don’t encourage him. He is on a very big ego trip and he’ll ruin himself completely. Has he got those?

Speaker: He’s got copper utensils and there was some [talk/local?] of tablecloths. I’m not familiar …

Shri Mataji: And that I don’t know. Just find out Gavin. Be on his look-out. I hope he doesn’t fly out to America. Tell him that show everything to Mother. Bring it down here. I would like to see all that he has got. Stupid fellow. Just smartly came, taking my photograph. You see, I thought that who is this? Got some newspaper fellow? You see, very smartly dressed with a thing and jumping around like a monkey. I didn’t know who he was. Suddenly, I see , “Ah! You are here !” Such a stupid fool, I tell you. Four thousand pounds he has borrowed and bought those table cloths. Who is going to buy for 30 pounds and 50 pounds a table cloth like that?

Speaker: Most of us didn’t know what was happening. That was at the beginning there was talk of big sale.

Shri Mataji: No, no, now what you do.. ..yeah! that must be his idea at that time. To go to America. What did he think? I thought I was a Commercial Director of Sahaja Yoga. I said, “What? Commercial Director. I just can’t understand.” I said, “Who gave you the idea?” He said, “Maybe my ego.” I said, “Really?” I didn’t know what to do. I mean, ego is stupid – stupidity. If somebody says, “What is it?” what am I to say then? (Hindi: itna bhi stupidity kya ki char hazaar pound aap borrow karte ho – why so much stupidity that you borrow four thousand pounds). And now you appoint – self-appointment. We paid for his transfer, we paid for everything, played all the tricks that they should have it and here they are just borrowed money on that stock. Let’s see now whether their shop works out or anything. But they never informed Me. You see, the bhoot is like that. The ego is such that we thought, “Mother, we thought it was your blessing that we got all the loan and everything.” I said, “Really? But why didn’t you inform me that you are doing it? If it was My blessing you should have informed Me.” There is no treatment for stupidity and 20 percent rate.

Speaker: Of interest? 20 percent? I didn’t realize that.

Shri Mataji: What are you getting to start? They don’t have a single penny of their own. (translated from Hindi – ed.).

Speaker: 800 pounds a year, just to service the [unclear]

Shri Mataji: I mean, they may sell it because there are 150 pieces altogether they have got but at the most for 3000 or so …

Speaker: Every 3 months of delay is costing him 200 pounds. I don’t understand.

Shri Mataji: Every year how much?

Speaker: 800 pounds a year. For them, it’s a lot of money.

Shri Mataji: I think they’ll become bankrupt. That’s the solution they have. I think they’ll sell it off and say, “We can’t return your money.” Within four years they have to return. They can say, “We can’t return. We are bankrupt.” That’s the only way they have.

Speaker: Then what future do they have? They can’t soft loan it.

Shri Mataji: All right. So this is it. So now which one – left side we have dealt with.

Speaker: Heart, Vishuddhi , Agnya we have left. We haven’t done aasman.

Shri Mataji: Aasman is right side.

Speaker: Left heart complications, left Vishuddhi complication, left Agnya complications. Treatment of diabetes? Sugar and salt, Mother? Sugar or only salt?

Shri Mataji: Salt. For the spleen if you can really give vibrated extracts, you see – liver extracts or something, firstly. Liv 52 vibrated, for spleen – liver extracts, you see, like Liver gen or something. It has nothing to do with liver but they are liver extracts, means for the RBCs only – for iron content.

Speaker: What about eating liver for the spleen? Is it good, Mother?

Shri Mataji: It is good for the spleen – liver (hindi : in India liver is smashed and had) for iron – any kind of iron content, B12. You better give me one B12 again. Everybody said that I was looking much better but now I am much better. I was so tired.

Speaker: in the Hampstead meeting you were looking very young.

Shri Mataji: Isn’t it? Everybody said in Hampstead but you know I got tired in this one. The one we had, the last one, Cambridge, Cambridge one was also very, too much. You see I had traveled, went there, had a puja in the morning, no rest. Then we traveled all the way and this horrible bhoot on my head all the time arguing, arguing, got fed up and then we went there. It was very hectic but the Cambridge was the one. But thank God there were people. Now I got over it. But that day I was very tired. Okay over? Okay, we’ll do tomorrow sometime. What time?

[aside remarks]

Shri Mataji: … That Sahaja Yogis don’t realize.

Speaker: That’s the desire, Mother, to awaken, the desire to do actually more than you think you can.

Shri Mataji: Yes, you see you have to go to the roots, you see. You have to go deep down into it. You have to be serious people. You have to be serious. You have to work it out because you have to go deeper into it. It’s nothing superficial. Superficial things can be done superficially. You have to be ardent about it, earnest, absolutely earnest about it. It’s reality, you see. It’s not fantasy. You cannot say, “Love, love, love.” All that nonsense is not there. To go deep down into it, to get to it, this Sahaja Yogis don’t realize. I tell you I feel that Sahaja Yogis don’t realize that it’s a deep investigation, the deep approach the superficial people can’t reach.

Speaker: The Canadians seem to be doing very well Mother.

Shri Mataji: They are much deeper. You see, organizing outside is important but much more is organizing within and the organizing within comes when you reach the depth. If you do not reach the depth, how are you going to organize yourself within? There is no way out. So for every small, small thing – “Mother, he wakes me up in the morning” – array – why should anybody ask you to wake up? You get up and do it. You get up on your own. Objections – I am surprised at it. It should be done, for you good. You have to do it. You have to work it out. It is not just by the way on the road walking. You can just catch hold of something. It’s not that. You have to work it out. This Terrance came, “I don’t like people.” I said, “You shut up now. Don’t interfere with. That’s the thing. No use criticizing others or doing anything. You better keep quiet. You don’t understand anything.” Then he kept quiet.

Because Australians are going deeper, you see. Nobody tells them. This is the point, you see. It’s not just fun or anything. You have to go deep into yourself, to organize yourself. You must be organized within yourself. You see, alertness should come in that movement, “Oh, where is my mind, Mother?” It’s not just talking, you see, or putting posters or things like that.

Speaker: Especially if many of these actions they are done without desire.

Shri Mataji: Without desire [Hindi : and to talk about it superficially – ed.] and just to talk about is very …. What have you achieved yourself? This is the chance. You have to dive down, if you have to find. First dive down much deep and that’s what I find is lacking. You see, why should anybody wake you up? What is the need? You wake up yourself. You should be the leader and you should do it. What is the need for anyone to do it? You come out of your own shells. You see, I can’t understand Myself. I mean, if I were you, I would have done it. I would have done everything to the extremes to do it if I were you. But you see I’m just the other way. Still I am an extreme…if this is the way you work, even if you pay someone thousands of pounds, people won’t work like that the way you work. For what I can’t understand – the sincerity.

Speaker: Also I think, Shri Mataji, is happening that people are putting responsibility for their ascent on few people who take things earnestly and seriously. This used to be always here in London, I noticed, and they put their responsibility for their ascent on those people and they will just pack off and enjoy life.

Shri Mataji: They don’t want to ascend. You see, you have to take something and enjoy it yourself. If your tongue is not sensitive you cannot enjoy. As simple as that. Nobody can make your tongue sensitive. Can anyone? You have to make your tongue – everyone has. What is the need to say anything? I mean, it’s all right in the beginning. I just thought that if we put restriction all the nonsensical people will disappear. That’s why I said, “All right,” but what is this? This has become a customary thing.

Speaker: You see, this business of taking responsibility, the main thing in England is people don’t want to take responsibility for anything including…

Shri Mataji: Oh, responsibility to your own seeking? I am not asking to take anybody else’s responsibility. Like this Susan now, the other day I saw. I was amazed – so much left, so much left. She has developed a face like a man, I tell you!

Speaker: And no-one can see it. They all think she’s very sweet.

Shri Mataji: Really? There is a man coming into her. She will become a man, you see that?

Speaker: Much worse than it was one year ago.

Shri Mataji: That day she came, I said, “You go and sit at the back.” I just couldn’t bear. I mean, they are not sensitive people. She is shrinking, on what? On mental level maybe.

Speaker: I don’t know, Mother. It’s very subtle, you see. I mean, I can’t explain it. It’s – they have made a fantasy out of Sahaja Yoga. They imagine. First they hear what they should feel, then they imagine they feel it and then they feel happy.

Shri Mataji: Stupid. All right, whatever it is. Now in this Bhagvati Puja, on that day, on Monday, I’m going to come out with some things like that about this one that you see. Now look at these persons so very [ unclear]. They get up at 4 am – 4 o’clock, have bath, sit down, Baithak – you see, what we call is Baithak. I don’t know what you call it.

Speaker: Baithak is determination?

Shri Mataji: It’s the sitting, sitting hours of the meditation, sitting hours, Baithak. What is your Baithak? You must have Baithak. It needs to be steadied on one point. In everything we think – even you say my brother – I told him that, “Why don’t you take this one for your articles, say, to the Auditor.” He said, “Has he got a Baithak?” Means a determined way of sitting on to it. Assiduity is,

Speaker: Determination plus stability.

Shri Mataji: ..and stability. There is no word in English for it.

Speaker: It applies to depth.

Shri Mataji: Depth and the holding to it and getting into it and everything is what is Baithak.

Speaker: Some stubbornness also. What the English did to the Falklands in a gross way. They went, they went and they go it. Shri Mataji, the whole society has lost that. Only in the Army still you’ll find that. This is the problem with the country, is that Baithak has gone out in Sahaja Yoga but also out of it.

Shri Mataji: But Rustom, it’s such a thing. If you really see the beauty of Sahaja Yoga, one should really sit down. Even for music in India you have to have a Baithak. They are not a Baithak master. They cannot do it. They have to do riyaaz for six-six hours, seven-seven hours. In India it’s very common for a musician to sit down for six hours. Otherwise, do you think they can move their voices like that?

You see, C.P. is an example of that. Baithak is Baithak. When you come, you can see that. And in the office everybody says, “Whichever are the Indians? They work like this.” It’s a team. They all work better than all the English people together. English are 5:30 they have to go home – for what?

Speaker: To meet their wives who will nag them.

Shri Mataji: I don’t know – maybe to rape or what? I don’t know. All of them, all of them, whether they are Japanese or anyone, except for the Indians, they work very hard, finish the job; then they go. Baithak is the point, you see. In Sahaja Yoga that’s what we need. (Hindi : in logon ne sab ne kya hai : All these people), they have achieved. Just see [unclear] the thing, how he has done it. [Hindi : bahut baithak chahiye : a lot of baithak is required]. That is what is lacking here. I don’t know how to put this into their heads. They are fantastic and they – what is this nonsense? When they come before Me, I can’t even make them sit before Me. It’s such a condition! They’ll go to India and they will also [unclear]

Speaker: They have to sit for six hours, seven hours at a stretch?

Shri Mataji: They do. They do. (Hindi : abhi jaise ek chakra pakda hai : Let’s say if a Chakra is catching, for example, Swadhisthana. They will work out Swadhisthana – work out, work out – clear it. They will clean the carpets much more with Baithak than their inside, to get to it.

Speaker: That has to be told to them.

Shri Mataji: God will do. Mataji will do. How far can I go? You see, I drop off very fast. Now this one is now one of the examples is this Susan – very left-sided. She’ll become a man – I have a feeling. Very left-sided, she is so caught up. See actually her ego is full of bhoots and she is one of them who is a target for Me and I am [unclear] there is another Susan. Susan – a funny name, huh! What does that mean? Is it a biblical name?

Speaker: Yeah, Susanne. There is a dirty story in the Bible, Shri Mataji. It certainly gives rise to dirty thinking. It’s a dirty story. That’s all I can tell you.

[Mother talks to her cook and arranges for seating and food menu arrangement for the guests. She discusses about buying sari for Gauri Puja.
Gifts to be given on Gauri Puja can be made of stone or clay. Can be of marble.
She suggests a Mother Mercy and a little child idol made of soap stone as a gift.
During Laxmi Puja, gift made of gold can be given but it’s not mandatory. But appropriate gifts according to occasion are more preferable.]

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi