Who does these things?

Ghent (Belgium)

1982-09-19 Who Does These Things? Ghent Belgium DP-RAW, 135' Chapters: Introduction by Yogi, Talk, Q&A, Self-Realization, Workshop
Download video - mkv format (standard quality): Download video - mpg format (full quality): Watch on Youtube: Watch and download video - mp4 format on Vimeo: Listen on Soundcloud: Transcribe/Translate oTranscribeUpload subtitles


1st Public Program. Gent (Belgium), 19 September 1982.

[Introduction in Dutch. Starts at 4:29]

It’s very kind of the Sahaja Yogis of Gent to invite Me to come here in Belgium itself to meet them and meet other people who are seeking the truth. Actually, every place, every country where Sahaja Yoga started, it had a very dramatic beginning. And I have been always enjoying and witnessing the fun of the reaction – the first reaction of the people to truth. Robert is a remarkable person because he came to us at a point where people did not think that he would even achieve his Realization. And suddenly, I came to know that he has started a center in Gent and everybody thought it was really miraculous. How could he do it?

It has happened also once before that one gentleman came to Bombay to get his Realization. And he went to Rahuri and started a center of his own. And it grew into such a big organization now. I should not call it an organization but such a big tree that thousands and thousands of people have received Realization under that tree. Like the banyan tree has a very small seed and once it creates a huge big banyan tree. And the same is happening here in Belgium. I am very happy to know that we have such nice seekers here who have achieved their Realization already. And there are many who are seeking.

For this, there is one thing in common. I think it’s the sincerity of purpose – sincerity of seeking. If you are sincere, you won’t accept even the rationality or rationalizing. Because sincerity has its own feeling and the feelings cannot be argued and you do not feel satisfied with what you are doing unless and until you have found.

Sometimes people rationalize things because they enjoy the mental feat – like a circus going on and they go on arguing between themselves. They like to have like a card game, you can call it. But one must understand that rationality can go to any extent. A murderer can rationalize his murder. Murderer can rationalize his murder, why he murdered a person. Murderer – a killer. So, it can have many various aspects and various representation.

But why we find fanaticism everywhere? People can kill other people in the name of God. But truth is very different. Truth is absolute. It is not that one can say, “This is truth,” and another one can say, “This is untruth.” It cannot be [unclear]. For example, the colour of this room – everybody can see and say that this is the colour. Nobody can argue on that point. And there cannot be two opinions about it. But then why, in the name of God and religion, there are so many sects? If God is one then why there are so many problems? So much so that people are now thinking that there is no God. Every thinking man really sometimes wonder what’s going on. Actually, the reason is that human beings as they are – at that awareness that they are – they are not yet fully there from where they can see the truth.

Supposing you are climbing a mountain, from different angles then wherever you are, you think this is the truth about the mountain. But those who are sensible will understand that unless and until they go to the apex, they won’t be able to see the whole picture and they should not take such a decision. So, one has to reach that point, that zenith from where he sees all around and then knows that it is all just the same integrated in one. Once you are moving you should move along knowing that you have not yet achieved the zenith.

Now the problem is that people don’t want to believe that their awareness is not yet complete. At this human awareness, they want to judge everything. For example, a person who is not a realized soul and comes to a program, what will he see? He’ll see we are wearing a sari or saying some things. It may not be intelligible to his mind at all, because we are not subtler enough to feel the subtle side of reality. This has given another problem to human beings. Those people who are realized souls or those who came from the zenith downwards – you can say incarnations – they were never understood by the people who were climbing up. And that’s why they tried to kill people who were coming down from the zenith and telling them about the zenith!

That is how they tortured people. Now it is difficult to understand why they crucified Christ. But maybe in modern times also if Christ has to come, you may not crucify Him but you will make such a fun out of Him in our newspapers that He would be crucified in any way. This is the way we try to avoid the truth. This is not a question of our inferiority. Because when you think that you are inferior to someone, these problems come. But if you understand that the ocean is waiting for all the rivers to flow in it, nobody is inferior or superior. The clouds rise from the same ocean, go and fill the same rivers and again the rivers flow into it. There is a continuous process going on. So, there is no question of inferiority or superiority. But at this stage of awareness, it is very difficult for human beings to understand that there could be someone who is just like the ocean, who is the spirit.

Till you become the ocean, you will not understand that kind of a personality and you’ll always criticize such a person. So, there is a vicious circle between the people who know about the truth and the people who do not know about the truth. And in between, the fake, the people who are interested in cheating others and making money out of you or getting something out of you, have the [unclear].

Now if you have to become the truth, that is, what happens to us and how we relate it to our awareness, as human beings if we say there is a bad smell coming or a good fragrance is coming, we all know that there it is. But suppose the people just start quarrelling about it. You’ll say, “You are all mad. How can you not smell it? It is there. You can feel it. It is there.” Or if somebody doesn’t feel, you’ll see that, you’ll say that there is something [less/lacking] in that person. In the same way, when you become realized soul, then whatever you feel on your fingers, even a child feels the same. Even an old person feels the same. Any country, any community, all of you feel the same. You cannot argue it out. It’s an awareness in your feeling of your central nervous system, of the nerve. You can feel it about another person.

Mohammed Sahib has said that in the time of resurrection, your hands will speak. And His [independent OR dependent] Islamic people, they feel that He was the last and there cannot be anything. He himself has said that there will be a resurrection time when the hands will speak and who is going to do that job. That means somebody has to come and do the job of resurrection. If you yourself believe that by doing this kind of a circus of Namaz they are just going to take off to heaven, they are sadly mistaken. Even the same about Christ. If you go on saying, “Christ! Christ!” and listen to the way people have killed so many [Ceialos] you think that they will have any place in God’s kingdom?

It’s true about Hindus also where they have formed a caste system and fighting among themselves. So, one has to realize that whatever we have achieved is not sufficient. We have to have a higher awareness by which we see the zenith and by which we understand that it is absolute. Absolute has no higher point; it’s the highest. It cannot be compromised, either. Absolute truth means there is no parallel to it; there is no question about it. God has created human beings with great care and love. He has brought them to this great level of the understanding that there is God. For animals there is no God. Whether you believe in God or not, doesn’t matter. But on the whole people have an idea that there is some sort of a power above us. They can think about it and they can see it with their own eyes.

Now you see the flowers becoming fruits. You see so many living things happening in this world. Who does all these things? You have to think. Now if you do not want to know about it, so it’s [unclear], but if you want to know then we should find out. After all, what is this power that is doing all this living work within us and without us? Now if I say that this is the divine power of love of God, you are not to take this for granted because nobody has felt it before. Nobody sees it. It is so subtle that we cannot see it. It is here. You cannot see it.

But in ordinary cosmic level also you do not see any ether. It has got all the programs that are going on in England or in America and when you put the television you can see that. Supposing you are an instrument like that and it has to be just plugged to the mains, then why not do it? If you are the instrument, if you are to know, then it is better that you do it. But then the question comes – how to do it? Because it is a living force and that living force cannot be excited by human beings. We, what we do, is the dead work. For example, if there’s a tree available then we can make it into a chair. It is all dead from dead.

But we cannot make one seed sprout with our authority. You put even one seed in the library, nothing will sprout because there is so much knowledge around it. You stand on your head, do all kinds of Hatha yoga exercises or do anything you like, it won’t sprout. You may say all kinds of tantras and say all sorts of Vedas and also say prayers like, “Sprout, sprout, sprout.” It will not. You may end up calling it very obstinate, unreasonable thing. But the trouble is, for living things you cannot brainwash it. It has to work out. But how? You’ve to think how did we become human beings from a unicellular cell – amoeba? From monkey to this stage, where you are listening to a nice lecture? It is unbelievable that we were that and today we are this without knowing anything about it. We did not rationalize anything to become that. It has happened spontaneously. In the same way our realization is going to take place also – spontaneously. Now when we ask a simple question, “How does a seed sprout?” you have to just place it in the Mother Earth and it will sprout. The Mother Earth has the capacity to sprout. So, anybody who has this capacity can sprout it.

So, there are many people in the market who say, “I have the capacity.” Another one will say, “I have the capacity.” You say anything and you get the market flooded. But this capacity is to ask, must show, It’s not just talking.

For example, I went to America first time in 1976 and there I told them that, “You have to be born again.” That’s what Christ has said. If everything was finished at the time of Christ, then why did He say that you are to be born again? So, they started an organization calling “Born Again”. Even one President of America was born again. I don’t know how!

So, I asked them, I said, “How do you call it ‘born again’? Means do you do that job?” So, they said, “No! We are already born again”. As this self-certification. I didn’t understand how are you born again when you do not have the capacity to make others be born again. Now if the cement says, “I am the Mother Earth,” are you going to believe it? If you put a seed in the cement it won’t sprout.

But that is another capacity of human beings to believe into something false and live with it. It may be money-oriented, power-oriented – whatever thought it is, but I find the seekers, the genuine seekers suffer the most. The half-baked or the people who are not intelligent enough, I should say, do not have the wisdom – always follow them into these things. Their ego gets identified with this wrong path and they just get dwindled up into it. It is a very sad thing because this is the time of resurrection. This is the time of your last judgement. This is the time you have to get your Self-realization. And so many are lost like this because of the misidentification. It is simple to understand that you cannot put in any effort for living process and you cannot pay for it.

But people work on your weaknesses and support your weaknesses and you get entangled into these things. I must say that once you get your realization you become the strongest personality. You do not aggress anyone but you do not also receive aggression from anyone. Because you are a living personality, that you feel your life force within yourself.

Within us is placed this subtle mechanism of Kundalini, which is the residual power of our desire. It is called as residual because it has manifested the whole of being but yet not expressed itself. So, in essence, it is the desire to be one with the Spirit, to be one with the Absolute. So, because it is not yet manifested, we call it a residual power. And this is the tree of life – the whole of it you can see there, which is not in our central nervous system felt, so far. These are the subtle centres which manifest of course in growth also as our plexuses. When this residual force rises through this center and arise at the top of your head it makes a sound, just like a heartbeat, on the top of your head near the fontanel bone area.

Actually, Christ never needed any baptism but to tell people that baptism has to take place He had to go through this process which is termed as baptism. But everybody has not done the baptism. The one who can give baptism in reality is the person who is a realized soul. So, it has nothing to do with what money you give, how you talk, how you live, what is your race, what is your condition. It’s just if you can give realization to others, then you are a realized soul. When this power [unclear : sounds like – presses OR passes] through your fontanel bone area and clears it through, you start feeling the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost coming out of you. It is not possible by doing anything else but the sprouting of the kundalini.

You cannot give a false certificate. You cannot say you’ve got Self-realization, you are born again. It has to happen. The cool breeze has to blow out of your head [unclear- that’s as simple as anything]. Then it has to flow from your hands also. Somebody asked me today that it is said that the kundalini is hot and you must get a hot feeling within yourself. Now must be some people who are not authorized to do something like that – must be creating a problem with the sympathetic nervous system.

This is a sign of sickness. We know that if somebody has temperature then we know that person is sick. Even in nature if you see, you cannot see that there is a helium gas and people are working on it to reach it to the absolute zero point in cathode – helium. They have found out that when the gas is cooled down then it is filled more. Then all the particles, that is all the atoms there are, or you can call them molecules, they do not stick each other anymore. They become very quiet and they move in the same direction – like collectivity it is that. And when they are heated, they start bumping at each other, kicking each other and destroying it.

Now the disease we are taking is the cancer. When the whole body gets heated out and it cannot pass its heat into the blood to show the temperature, the heat is retained in the body. It comes from the fighting, aggressive malignant cells. And malignant cells are [unclear]. Then we lose the connection with the whole. Then they lose their connection with the whole.

For example, this is the center and the center is working for a particular area. For example, in the stomach, you can say this is the local center. It has to supply to the left sympathetic and to the right sympatric and center is the parasympathetic. Now when there is more [unclear] activity in the right side or the left side sympathetic activity, the connection with the whole breaks like that. When it is together, the connection is established with the whole. Like somebody who breaks from the society and is on his own and he says, “I am on my own,” he becomes malignant and such malignancy, when it is manifested in our body, then we get tremendous heat.


I was speaking in a concentration class and it was really snowing outside in London. But they emitted so much of heat that we had to close all the heaters. We had to close down the heater completely. And not only that, but it was so heated that outside we could see [unclear- leopards] falling outside on the windowpane. So, one has to know that when the kundalini rises it has to cool you down. For Indians, it is very easy to know because it’s already written down and they know all about it. But the Westernized Indians have read only Westernized books which are coming from somebody who doesn’t know much about it. And it is just the opposite of what it is really. One has to understand that whatever was not known, in those days – ancient times in India tend to [unclear] later on in the life of Christ, in the life of Mohammed – they are all complementary to knowledge. Christ had to talk of the ascent, while Mohammed had to talk about the establishment of the balance, but by no means creating any difference between the two. Blind people are not divided at all. Like human beings, if you have two doctors, one will say you have got cancer; another will say you have got tuberculosis. And if you have five doctors, you’ll feel you have every disease possible in the earth. And they will ultimately give a certificate that, “You are in coma. We cannot get you all right.” And you’ll be surprised the patient in coma might walk out with [unclear].

Because the doctors who work out all these things themselves, are using machines which they have invented themselves, which do not relate to reality. To their rationality, to their understanding, whatever they think is, it is. So, one has to know that even if you use something mechanical, like a machine, ultimately it has to be faced by a human being which are unpredictable. Like an X-ray, if it can be seen by ten people and they will have ten different opinions about it. But in Sahaja Yoga, we do not brand anyone with any disease as such.

We talk in the terms of chakras and centres and blockages. We cannot attack the Self. Self is beyond all these chakras. It is just the chakras which are separated from that absolute which is beyond diseases, beyond any attachment. Unless and until patient will come and tell us that he has got cancer, we will not bother as to what it is. We’ll not have a diagnosis. We’ll not try to give it a name. But on the contrary, we will judge what centres he is catching, what is the blockage. Once we know, everybody will feel the same way. Then the Sahaja Yoga has a method by which you can clean the chakras of another person and your own, too.

When the power is flowing through your hand, you have to just know how to manoeuvre it. And if you know the technique, how to do it, that’s all is to be known. But it’s a simple technique. Even just touching that person it might work out. Even just looking at that person it might work out. It is very simple like the sunshine. It works out in a very fast way in people who are normal people, who are balanced people. It works out much faster than in the people who are complicated.

But all this working takes place as a by-product of this energy that has enlightened you, because you are the instrument, you are the energy, you are the doctor, you are the medicine. The greatest of all is that you are the enjoyer of all that work and the enjoyer of your wellbeing. It’s all together in one state when you become the Spirit. And this is what one has to achieve, which is your own, within yourself. You don’t have to go to jungles to find it out or to go to someone. It is just within yourself.

Of course, an enlightened light can only enlighten another light. But that doesn’t mean that the enlightened light is doing anything obligatory or some sort of a big help to the person. For example, a part of your body, if it is paining a little and if you rub it, you don’t feel you are doing any obligation to that part, do you? So, you don’t help no-one because nobody is the other. All these ideas are little complicated at the beginning but when you become that, then you become so simple, childlike.

I would say that for introduction of Sahaja Yoga it should be enough for you to give some food for thought, and tomorrow again, I will be speaking into details as to what is the correct and what are the achievements about our spirituality. Of course, on the first day, I would like you to ask Me questions and I would like to answer them because rationality is always there and it should not be illogical. Whatever is got working [unsure] is absolutely logical. We are not so logical. We are rational but not logical.

So again, I would thank you all for giving Me this chance to talk to you and request you to ask Me questions if you have any about Sahaja Yoga and I’ll try to answer them.

Thank you very much.


Shri Mataji: Sahaja Yogis are not [inaudible].
Come along, there’s one there at the back. All right.

Seeker: [Speaks in Dutch].
Shri Mataji: What did he say?
Sahaja Yogi: If a Sahaja Yogi is ill, does that mean that he is not a good Sahaja Yogi?
Shri Mataji: No, he is. He can cure himself.
Sahaja Yogis can get ill, why not? They should, I think sometimes. Then they’ll have more sympathy for people who are ill. But they can cure themselves.

But you will be amazed that Sahaja Yogis become so negligent about their health that they don’t bother and God looks after their health, I must say. I sometimes do get worried about them. One day we had gone to a forest and we were coming back. I was in the car and they wanted to go on a truck – all of them – and I found rain all along the way. So, I said, “They must have been all drenched there,” and I was quite worried.

And then I reached the place where they were supposed to be waiting for us in a house. They were all singing and very happy and taking some cold drinks there [aside remarks]. So, they reached the place where they were supposed to wait for us and there I found them very happily singing and taking some cold drinks! So, I asked them, “How is it that you avoided the rain? The whole road was filled with rains. What happened to you?” So, they said that, “The rain never touched us, Mother. It was way ahead of us and it never touched us. And it was really watering the dusty road but it never touched us.” Because in Sahaja Yoga, you feel the complete presence of God Almighty and [unclear] his compassion, his love. And his attention is so beautiful, is so dynamic, is so efficient, that normally Sahaja Yogis are not sick.

For example, I asked one Sahaja Yogi – he had got lots of equipments for music – how did you manage? He said, “No doctor’s fees anymore and I do not smoke, I do not drink. All the money is saved.” I don’t think any one of the Sahaja Yogis go to any doctor.

All right, so?
Seeker: If you don’t feel the cool breeze on your hand, but you feel [inaudible]
Shri Mataji: That means you have a bad Vishuddhi. If you have a bad Vishuddhi chakra, see this nerve, it passes, travels through your hands and comes through here. It is already pressed by that chakra. If your Vishuddhi is not all right, then you don’t feel. Many people in the West have this problem. They don’t feel it. Normally you should feel it in the hands first and then there, normally. Say, in India, they feel it more in the hands first and then in their heads. Because the Kundalini moves from here and then comes out here. But the sensitivity at this point is not felt in the hand, because this center is not all right. Some people, whom I know, have been in Sahaja Yoga for days together, never felt it.
So, you must try to improve your centre, Vishuddhi chakra. And there are ways and methods. Honestly, if you do it, you can clear it out. You should be honest about it and work it out. It will clear out. There are certain ‘asanas’ we have to do to improve this center and there are some gargling and all that with vibrated water and also certain mantras. Everything we do to clear out our center. Once it is cleared out, you will have no problem. Also cracking the neck is very good. It is done at the physical level – cracking the neck. I think it works out wonders.

You know these small, small things can reduce your sensitivity. Small things can reduce your sensitivity. Of course, if you are smoking, if you are talking too much, anything can reduce your sensitivity. Once, as you start practicing and you start giving it to others, you get an inner force and you overcome all the blockage of yourself. Because God also looks after those who want to work for Him.

Any other question?
Seeker: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: For the Vishuddhi? For Vishuddhi, the deity we are using is Shri Krishna, Radha-Krishna. Krishna is here. And the Christ is stationed here and you see, on this point, you have to say the Lord’s Prayer. But at this point you have to say Shri Krishna’s mantra. This they will tell you how to say it, how to relate it to Shri Krishna and on the left-hand side is, because of your guilt, sometimes, you know, we have habit of feeling guilty. That’s absolutely useless and nonsensical. There is nothing to feel guilty. Then only if you say, “Mother, I am not guilty,” it will clear out. You’ll be amazed. Only thrice you say, “Mother, I am not guilty,” it will clear out.

Or if you are a person who is using the right hand too much – say, you are an artist or you are a painter or you are a typist or something – then also it could be that you are using your hands too much in relation to your legs, feet and head.

Luckily, I have come to Belgium at a point when lots of things have been already said. But in the beginning, I used to be very careful, cautious and say very few things. So, now most of the knowledge is out, I should say. [Shri Mataji is laughing. The translator does not understand]
I said, I have come to Belgium at a point when lots of the knowledge has been already said.

There are four books written by four Sahaja Yogis now. But you must know that Sahaja Yoga’s door is open to everyone. Whether somebody is a doubting Thomas, whether somebody is against Sahaja Yoga or any sort of a person, it’s open to everyone. And you may meet people who are still not ‘there’, though maybe they might be here for days together or for months together, years together. Still, they are doubting Sahaja, they’re half-baked. You can get people like that. Because Sahaja Yoga is very tolerant and extremely forgiving. The only attitude is how many more people are going to get their Realization, it’s the main objective.

There can be stupid people also with whom if you talk to them, you’ll think, “How are they Sahaja Yogis?” you see. You’ll be amazed. We do not bestow any or confer any degree on anyone that, “You are a Sahaja Yogi now “. Never. It is they who have to claim that you are Sahaja Yogi. It is for you to become the Sahaja Yogi. We do not say that, “Now, you are Mr Sahaja Yogi. You put a badge here. You are Sahaja Yogi.”
We have no organization and we have no such arrangement. So, anybody can become a Sahaja Yogi. If he claims, he has to come up to the point. So, everybody is given full chance.
We don’t even openly say what is the criteria of a Sahaja Yogi. But you yourself know, after some time, that you are a Sahaja Yogi now, that you have become a Yogi in full way, because you realize your own power. It’s a state where you reach the doubtless awareness after your thoughtless awareness. Then you start feeling, “Oh, I am a Sahaja Yogi definitely now.” You have to certify yourself. It is for you to judge.

What is your question? You wanted to ask one more, no?
Seeker: [Speaks in Dutch].
Sahaja Yogi: For a while, he has done this TM and he got pain in his chest, what can he be doing?
Shri Mataji: Yes, you see this TM fellow, he has a name in Sahaja Yoga, we know what he was. We know what he was and how he was destroyed once upon a time. So, if you know the mantra of what was his name and how he was destroyed you can just get rid of it. We have so many TM people who were treated. They are all completely cured.
In Sahaja Yoga, you know, their path is finished, of all these gurus, you see, these so-called, their path is finished of thousands of years. And you know how they are finished off also.

Sahaja Yogi: [Unclear] cannot be open to take to TM.
Shri Mataji: It’s dangerous.
Sahaja Yogi: No, but TM could open [unclear]
Shri Mataji: No! TM is closing on the contrary. It closes. Not only that, it will give you problems, you know. I’ve seen people who, after going to TM, their muscles start twitching. This is a simple thing which you call as ‘possession’, when you put a spirit on someone.
Now it’s very simple, you see. They will give you a name say of Rama – that’s all right – but they also give you a horrible name, you see, which means something so stupid that if you will tell an Indian, he will really laugh. And they’ll put you on the run, ask you more money, more money. So, you are paying them more and more without understanding why you are running.
Now if you- if they give you a mantra, say Rama, you’ll ask them, “Where is the situation of Rama in your center? Where is He?” They won’t be able to tell you anything, nothing. They’ll just go on saying, “Rama, Rama, Rama.”

Seeker: [Speaks in Dutch].
Sahaja Yogi: Is it not the meaning of repeating always that mantra to come in a deeper sleep?
Shri Mataji: How? It spoils your – first of all this centre because you are repeating something – anything you repeat- it will be spoiled. Especially it has the greater respect. Because you see, Rama, whom you are calling, you are not connected with Him. So, when you go into too much extreme, at first you move to the left or to the right. And in that condition, you can be caught up by your collective subconscious or collective supra-conscious. So, when you are calling, “God, God, God,” and you are not connected, you might meet some servant whose name is Rama, there in the collective subconscious and he may just grab you.

So, by this kind of a circus, you will spoil all this centre as well as the center of Rama by which you might get asthma. But most of the people from TM who have come to Me, had basically one disease, that was epilepsy. Also, they had, you see, these problems of jawbones and the movement of their muscles but when they reach [unclear] for eighteen years or so most of them ended up with epilepsy.

I can’t forget their experiences when they first came to Sahaja Yoga. One day, I received an SOS saying that one gentleman who came from here and somebody just recited the names of the Goddess. And he went into contortions and contortions, he would not talk. And everybody got frightened, the Sahaja Yogis, it was a great experience for them. But they were so frightened. Immediately they telephoned to Me saying, “Mother, what is it happening now? He went into contortions. Please come.”
Another fellow who just saw the garlic, you see, in the kitchen, and he became mad, started shouting. Still, he couldn’t see the garlic, can you imagine? He could not bear the smell of incense. Another fellow, he jumped. Also, you see things like that. Suddenly, you know, sitting down there, suddenly he jumped up that side. I said, “What happened?” He suddenly jumped and started barking like a dog!
We have Douglas here; he was the first one when they withdraw [unsure]. He went to some place called [unclear] and there he saw a magazine in which, ‘Yoga Today’, where Sahaja Yoga was written down. Now this [inaudible] was a very good Managing Director and this and that. All his money was exhausted with TM and he has also lost his job and he was in a mess. He was trying somehow or the other, to go through his savings, you see, and he saw this ‘Yoga Today’ there, this magazine. And the TM people are not supposed to read anything else. They are not to know anything else but TM, you see.
And My photograph was there. And they said, “All right. Now you feel the vibrations of the photograph.” And when he started trying to put his hands like this [towards the photo], the whole face started becoming a kind of a [unclear], you see, [unclear] got a fright and he got cured. And this was a six-month-old magazine. He telephoned but we had changed our place, you see. But he then somehow, he found the place and then he telephoned and Douglas was there on the phone, you see.

So, Douglas said on the phone that, “Are you very hot?” He said, “I am boiling.” So, we have seeing people who came to us from TM who were boiling but they went away. You see, they couldn’t stand the truth. So, we knew that the people from TM were boiling always very often they faint. So, Douglas said, “Are you from TM?” He said, “Yes. How do you know, on the phone?” So, Douglas said, “I can feel your chakras and I can say from your chakras, this is a TM combination.” [Shri Mataji is laughing]

So, this very [unclear] into the ashram, slowly, he has been there [unsure]. Again, he might go into that kind of a contortion. Of course, he got his Realization. He got many people into Sahaja Yoga, even the Director of the ‘Flying Academy of Scotland’ and his wife and daughter who all were suffering from epilepsy.

This lady was the grand-daughter of a Duke and they were all on the [unclear], the Deputy Directors and the Director of the flying squad. They spent money on the people who were coming there and doing the flying technics: nobody was flying, of course. And they were not paid back by the TM organization and they were just bankrupt. But the wife was struck by epilepsy that for three hours, she used to get into that funny situation of possession and she could scream and shout. But then they all of them were changed and they all are all right. They are doing Sahaja Yoga now. So, it’s nothing, you should all be all right. That’s your quality. You can become a great Sahaja Yogi.
Sahaja Yogi: In three months, he got so well.
Shri Mataji: He’ll be all right. I’ll set him right tonight and tomorrow morning. [Shri Mataji is laughing]
So, we know how to cure TM people. But some of them are still, you see, half-baked. Then they get out. You see, what to do? They cannot understand. Then what to do?

[Cut in the audio]

Shri Mataji: About what?
Sahaja Yogi: Spirit and [inaudible].
Shri Mataji: Yes, they are all the same but, you see, spiritualists are openly saying that, “We are spiritualists,” you see. That also is another sort of a very bad thing like ‘charismatic movement’ and this – what you call- ‘Pentecost’ and the ‘spirit movement’ – it’s all just the same! They get possessed.

Now there are spirits which are right-sided and spirits which are left-sided. The right-side spirits can give you an experience of an aura, you start seeing an aura. Like yesterday only in the night we had six people from ‘spiritualists’ [unclear]. Out of that, two ladies started seeing a golden aura around me and I said, “Don’t see all that. That’s not necessary. You see Me as I am.” “Well, we are enjoying that, you see.” What to do? It’s all ego-oriented.

You’ll be surprised that most of the diseases like cancer, multiple sclerosis, leukaemia, all these come from left side, means the spiritism, little bit has to be there.
[Iaudible] and all that, it’s a very dangerous thing. A man I have seen, now, thrice it has happened – multiple sclerosis – which we have cured. But I have seen the man has lived with a woman who is possessed. That means his Mooladhara chakra is affected. And that’s how he got multiple sclerosis; can you believe it? In all these people, a relationship with a woman or a man who is possessed can give multiple sclerosis, and give such disease [unsure]. First thing is they are very abnormal people. They are not normal people.

Seeker: [Inaudible].
Sahaja Yogi:
Shri Mataji: What is it?
Seeker: [Inaudible].
Shri Mataji: Is what? This disease?
Seeker: These abnormal people, actually, [inaudible].
Shri Mataji: Victime?
Seeker: No. [Inaudible].
Shri Mataji: Abnormal people, you mean? Or mental disease or physical disease?
Seeker: They are not normal.
Shri Mataji: They are not normal. Right. You see, the people who are not normal have either physical problem or a mental problem first of all – very obvious. They can be very moody people or a hot-tempered people. They could be extremely volcanic, they could be reclusive, they could be quiet, and selling the people and frightened, paranoids. There are so many methods. You can make out that a person is getting gradually a reclusive. For example, TM people are reclusive. They get out from the society. They get away from other people. They shut themselves. They don’t want to meet others. They are afraid and frightened while Sahaja Yogis have to talk to people and tell them about it.
And they are trained as teachers for days together and this and that, completely brain-washed and then they repeat what they have learnt and they have nothing to do with others. They don’t know each other at all. There’s no congenial relationship between each other at all. They are very individualistic.
Also, this can be very dry, very, very- sort of no devotedness because they are extremely dry. They have no feelings. Like one man, he came to me, he was a dentist. He said, “Now, I have no feelings left. If anybody weeps or cries, I don’t feel anything about it. I have no feelings.” This is an abnormal man, I thought. He has no feelings for anything. So, it’s an imbalance that he is such a dry personality.
But with Sahaja Yoga, not only that you become normal, but you become master of yourself – master. You become your own master.

Lady: [Inaudible]
Sahaja Yogi: Then she concludes that we are all abnormal because we have all mental or physical problems
Shri Mataji: Yes, that’s true to some extent all of us have. But there are normal people also. There are many normal people also. It’s a- the kind of civilization we are living in, we have to be living quite abnormally in this one [Shri Mataji is laughing].
But we have simple people. In the villages in India, I have seen many and also in England I’ve seen many very simple people. But the more you think, then the more complicated you become.

Lady: [Inaudible]
Sahaja Yogi: Where is the limit between normal and abnormal, the border?
Shri Mataji: You need not worry on that point. What is happening is that when you start thinking about it, again you become abnormal. So, better not start that chain of thinking. But I would say, when you become the Spirit, you start seeing the abnormality in a person that clearly. Because in that awareness, you just see that a person is behaving in a very abnormal way because you see the abnormality as a symptom. You do not see to the symptoms but to the source of the abnormality after Realization. At this stage, you cannot verify. But at the stage when you reach and you see the centres, then you see the abnormality so clearly because you can see the centres.

And also, you see the balance. You see, in one hand if you have too much vibrations and in another there are no vibrations, that means there is an imbalance. So, you understand also that there is an imbalance in you. With the vibrations, you can make out if they are flowing normally in both the hands; then you are normal.
Lady: [Inaudible]
Sahaja Yogi: The lady says that she is new and she doesn’t feel vibrations in hand.
Shri Mataji: You will just now. We are going to have that session.
The gentleman that has gone, is he going to come back or is he gone forever?
Because just start the session now of Realization and then you will feel it.
[Unclear conversation]

Seeker: [Inaudible] How do you return safely?
Shri Mataji: That we’ll see now. All right?
Seeker: Ah!
Shri Mataji: That’s behind the curtain. We’ll see that now, how it happens.
Sahaja Yogi: He means, “When you go out of your body, what does it mean?”
Shri Mataji: Oh! That one? No, you are not to go out of your body. You have to be very much-
Seeker: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: What did he say? How can you?
Seeker: [Inaudible] How can you get back again?

Shri Mataji: Everything can be reversed. You have done this.
Seeker: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, we didn’t follow your question, I think. You see, the question is, how you do it, isn’t it? It’s a point.
Seeker: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Is that the point you are asking?
Seeker: In which way it happens?
Shri Mataji: Oh, which way it happens. Yes, simple, simple I’ll tell you why, how simple it is.
There is a deity, there’s the deity of Christ within us. Yes? What happens that when you are moving to the left or to the right you get indulged by these spirits. Your body is taken away or whatever happens to you because of the spirit. Now if this deity can be awakened here, at Agnya Chakra, it sucks in your ego and superego. And in the superego, all these entities are there; they just run away. So, in your awareness, if they are there, they just run away if Christ is awakened here.

You see, to look at, kundalini’s awakening looks so simple: it’s like that, you raise your hands and you [inaudible]. It is a big organization we have, it’s a big happening we have. You see, all the deities get enlightened and that’s why it works out. Otherwise, it doesn’t.
All the deities get awakened within us and that’s how they get effective. And then when you say a mantra, you address to the deity in another person. Because you are awakened, your deity is awakened, you can awaken the deity of another person.
You say that Christ died for our sins, what does that mean? Or that it’s for our Karma. So, when He is awakened, He sucks in all that. That’s his power. And these are all deities placed within us in all these centres. This you can know from the little books we have.
All right?

Seeker: [Inaudible] mantra.
Shri Mataji: Yes! There are.
Seeker: [Inaudible] mantra.
Shri Mataji: Yes! There are. You see, every center has a mantra. Every deity has a mantra. So, supposing here, it’s Lord’s Prayer.
Seeker: There are Indian mantras?
Shri Mataji: There are. Mahavishnu. Christ is called as Mahavishnu.
It’s a pattern in which you have to read that mantra and then it works out. Mahavishnu is the name of Christ.

[Question inaudible]
Shri Mataji: We’ll tell you everything. There is no secret in Sahaja Yoga. Everything we are going to tell you. Of course, we see also how far you can go. You see, certain things are not told. Supposing there’s a Christian coming here. And you tell him the [?] name of Christ is Sahivara [unsure]. You’ll have it? Or if we tell a Hindu who is a staunch Hindu and you tell him there is Christ, you see, he may think that this is something like a spread of Christianity.
So, one has to see how far people can accept the truth, you see? And if they can accept, everything can be told to them. But some people just cannot accept. That’s the problem with them. Because there are attached to this or they are [inaudible]. All right?
But you must know gradually about these mantras. You must master them. You see, you can master these mantras. Once you say it, it’s done. Just say it, it’s done. You can master. First, Realization, of course, but then you master them. You can be the master of mantras. Any mantra you can start. All right?

We have some other methods also which are told to people once they come to Sahaja Yoga, which you call as puja and all that. But normally we don’t call people who are still little half-baked because, you see, they go amuck. They can’t bear it. You see, like people crucifying Christ sort of a thing happens to them, you see. But if you think that they are all right, even if they have some problems – doesn’t matter – but mentally they are all right, then we call them for these higher awakening to the mass. It works out but if they are not so surrendered or if they haven’t got that much of understanding of Sahaja Yoga, if they are not surrendered to God, then it is for us to take some time to expose it to them. But some people overnight they come over and they just jump into it and become masters. I have known many like that.

Also, about my nature or anything, you don’t discuss it with everyone, you see. If somebody says that, “How can you do it?” Supposing somebody says – so I say, “All right, you better do it.” We don’t say what I am, why am I doing this, what is special about Me, in the beginning, no, nothing.
I am just like you. I am worse than you because I don’t know driving, I don’t know this, I don’t know that. So that nobody is challenged, you see. Then gradually they themselves start seeing things then it’s [inaudible] to tell.

Should we have now Realization? All right.
Take off your shoes. Just for five, ten minutes and it will work out.
Just put your hands towards Me like this.
And close your eyes, please.
All right, let her put her left hand towards Me and the right hand outside. I could feel it is a carbohydrate.
You put your left hand towards Me sitting at the window. Just let her sit. She will be all right.
I know, he has a problem, he has a problem.
Just put it this side or more, so that she can put her hand nicely outside.
[End of audio]