1982 0922 Talk to Sahaja Yogis, Ghent, Belgium.

Yogi: Guys since yesterday evening it was bright…. (Voiceoverlap)

Another Yogi: Aah, beautiful matter, unclear(astonish), just tingling (discussions)

Shri Mataji: It was so beautiful.

Yogi: Mother Warren telephoned in the beginning of the puja he sent his love, and everyone sent a lot from Australia. And he is in Melbourne. And I have the negotiating unclear(demand) for a new ashram. He found a big house. 

Shri Mataji: In Melbourne?

Yogi: and they have an acre of land, and a tennis court for a school and they first tell us here .. and five-year lease. Which will be great so. 

Shri Mataji: Aah Good. 

Yogi: And city has another big house but it’s a long story Mataji. He is working on it very hard.

Shri Mataji: So, I will have something to eat and tea or something otherwise., [Shri Mataji speaks in foreign language Marathi] give it to Parmila, you have to bring it to my house now. 

Yogi: Of course, to cook it for here, shall I bring all these tomorrow, Mother? Your things, your glass

Shri Mataji: Luggage, my glass?

Yogi: Your glass

Shri Mataji: We can take it you see, Gavin can’t we take the glass with us? Because yesterday I go, he’ll ask for it

Yogi: In the market we saw tow bugs of pears, shield pears mother,60 Milos of French kilos its incredible. 

Shri Mataji: Really?

Yogi: Its one penny, one P, ten P, twenty P the kilo, twenty P the kilo. 

Shri Mataji: What are all these called as? Twenty penny per kilo? 

Yogi: Drei for Vienna, 

Shri Mataji: Drei for Vienna? It came to me here? Beautiful, so cheap I can’t believe 

Another Yogi: It’s unbelievable. Twenty P per kilo.

Shri Mataji: Specially for us, unbelievable. Vienna. Very nice of., Alright, so let’s have the interview

May God bless you.

Interviewer: Surprisingly I am not prepared for the interview. 

Shri Mataji: hmm?

Interviewer: I have not prepared really. I am surprised….

Shri Mataji: I am not prepared either. 

She asked me ‘will You give an interview’ 

I said alright, I have never prepared. 

Interview: I will ask you, how can you say in few words what is Sahaja Yoga?

Shri Mataji: In few words?

Interviewer: Yeah, I mean comparison with other yogas.

Shri Mataji: See, Sahaja Yoga means Yoga, makes you union with God. Why this adjective is given. Sahaja: saha means with, ja means born. Means is born, is spontaneous. Is the happening that is spontaneous which is a living happening, which takes place within you. Now the other style of yogas whatever it is actually are accessories if you like you have to come to this house, you have to take a car, first get into the car, then drive it down, go to the petrol station take petrol, then come, you arrive and then you come and then you really do that and then you enter in. That’s the thing otherwise if you take your petrol and you finish off then, there is no yoga. If you drive on and drive on, come up to the down there is no use. Even if you press the bell, there is no use. When you enter in – is the yoga. When you really get that in person – sakshat it is called, is the yoga. Now if you have to do any yoga one must know that this must be achieved at the end of it and this part is spontaneous. Is the entry into the divine is spontaneous. So they had HathYoga as I told you yesterday that in HathYoga there are attacks. This was done at a time when we had a very different system. It was not allowed for any married person. It was for celibates unmarried young people of 25 years age. Here there Ashtangas out of which first criteria was establish God with in you called Eshwara Pranidhana – establishment of God with in you and then this yama-niyama that you are doing out of that very little is the exercise we indiscriminately without understanding how the Kundalini is rising, where it is, like if you are going somewhere then you must know where you have to stop, where you have to turn, where you have to pay the toll. In the same way when the Kundalini rises then only you will know what you have to do at what point. Otherwise if you start doing without movement then it is useless. It’s just a exercise which has no meaning. Its just a exercise. So, all the Yogas: now say RajaYoga. RajaYoga is a description of what happens within you. When the Kundalini rises then the Bandhas takes place means this augmentation of the muscles, stomach establishes when It rises above the when the VishnuGranthi meets the nabhi is broken then a kind of a spasm goes into the stomach is called a bandh. To hold the Kundalini up there, you see when the Kundalini rises there must be some action also taking place alongside you get it to move isn’t it? So all that action because when it comes to the Vishuddhi chakra the tongue is cooled inside at this time. When it comes to the Agnya, the eyes (the pupils) are dilated in the beginning. All these things happen you see when the Kundalini raises and how the brain organs works out all these things happens. So, this is the happening that takes place within – is the RajaYoga. They call it a RajaYoga. That doesn’t mean just you sit down and put your stomach into a spasm for what are you putting it you see when the Kundalini is not there, you have to hold the Kundalini. Kundalini is still frozen there down below. So that’s how all the RajaYoga also is the physical happening within ourselves. But by doing physical thing, that is not going to work out, you see. So that is the RajaYoga. Then there is Gnyan Yoga. In Gnyana yoga is the same as Sahaja Yoga in a way, because when you get the knowledge means you become enlightened that’s what Krishna said that you first get to Gnyana. Gnyana means by which you know means you become a realized soul is the first. Then He out said that you get to that. But Arjuna was mediocre. He started asking questions. He said then why you are asking me to fight? If you want me to get the knowledge why do you say I should go and fight because normally people understand that once you get into knowledge then you give up everything, do not do anything normal work, you live somewhere in the Himalayas, hanging yourself by some string there. That’s why Arjuna says nothing is gained, nothing is gained. Who kills whom? Because they will be born again. Itsnot easy to kill anyone. So you must do your duty, so He started another diversion for him but he said that you said that I should get to become a witness, and then you are saying I must do my duty. So, Krishna being a diplomat, an incarnation of the diplomat. He said alright, you do your duty. I said diplomacy. What is diplomacy? Do you know what is the essence of the diplomacy? 

Yogi: To arrange the conflict

Shri Mataji: That’s the human style but the Divine style?

Another Yogi: To be humble, to understand people, try to understand people

Shri Mataji: Diplomacy is-that’s the trick. The trick is that you give an absurd solution. Absurd solution and let the people find out. That’s the diplomacy- Divine diplomacy. Is like He said, alright you do your work and put it at the Lotus Feet of God. That’s all you have to do. But you just can’t do it. Because you are not yet realized. So your ego is working all the time and if you think you are doing, see many people all the devotees you see think that ooh, whatever work I am doing I am putting at the Lotus Feet of God – is all imagination is not really because after realization you will know what you say it is going, it is coming, you become a third person. Trayast- third person. You start saying this is going, this is coming. Now it may be your brother or sister or anyone you say its not coming what can you do? I mean it’s not coming. You become a third person. And then you don’t do any work. The work is done for into category of Akarma. Like the Sun. It gives light, it just gives. It doesn’t know it is doing. There is no ego part. It just do it. In the same way you do your duty. But that’s what he was mean. So he was put an absurd condition that you do your duty and put it at the Lotus Feet of the God which you can do. Second for devotion he gave another what is called as BhaktiMarg or BhaktiYoga. BhaktiYoga they call it. This is the., I told you about KarmaYoga, where you do the karma, then first I told about GnyanaYoga and now the BhaktiYoga. Now BhaktiYoga, he said alright is again for the diplomacy. He said you do my bhakti: Pushpam, Phalam, Toyam whatever fruit or the things you give to me I take it. But while giving its again diplomacy, he says the word he has used is a very., ‘Ananya’ So he has used a very wonderful word. He says you should do Bhakti, you should do the Bhakti which is Ananya Bhakti. Ananya means when there is not the other. You should do the devotion when there is not the other. That means you are a realized soul. Now people say we are doing ananya bhakti, ananya bhakti means there is not the other. You see they are doing bhakti Wait, you are not realized how can you do bhakti? You are not connected. You know this is another absurd thing they do. By giving this absurd thing, people have tried to work them out some are realized that there is some trick in it. It’s only the mother we take it for granted. The father tries all these tricks but the mother tells it frankly-no my child the horse is behind the cart please put the horse front whatever the father is telling is all trickery that we are trying to show off so he is trying to put you down. So, because if you can’t take out something with straight finger you have to mend it. That’s what he is doing it. But as far as I am concern, I am telling you very frankly that you better find out the Spirit first then you talk about it. So, this is the epitome of all the yogas, is the flower of all the yogas without this no yoga has aroused. All others are subsidiaries. And this is spontaneous, this is a living force. And that is why its difficult for anyone. Unless and until yourself was incarnation who can do it? All yourself a sahaja yogi. Only the sahaja yogis no yogi can do it as fast as you an do it can you know that? You find out from any yogi there are great yogis in India who are realized souls, even this John the Baptist I was telling about he can’t do the way you can do it. Because you are my children.

Interviewer: So, it is externally to try to accept that so lot of people normally saint may sacrifices crying, preaching, buddhi sacrifies within it was useless? they were all wrong?

Shri Mataji: I must they yes. I am sorry. They should have waited for me to come. It is all prophesized. Its prophesized. You see if you see in the Naadi grandha clearly said that somebody who is the embodiment of parabraham, this is parabrahma will come on this Earth and the Kundalini will be raised in Kaliyuga. There was no need to do it. And also, I would say in a way it’s not possible. Those who have done it in previous lives are very good sahaja yogis today. They are taking the boons. But one should not have a obsessed at it. Don’t bother God. You see if somebody comes here and I will cut my throat if you don’t come, you don’t like such a person. Such oppressive people if you don’t come and show me your face then I will do this and that no one likes you. See when you want to receive someone, talk to someone, people like only are sensible and do not intrude upon all your privacy all the time. So, this is all nonsense that all the time you go on bothering God. Now.,

Yogi: Mother we have to leave. That’s a great pleasure to be with you 

Shri Mataji: May God bless you. Best of luck. Now get me the unclear(dates?) please. 

Yogi: Yes mother, I would unclear

Shri Mataji: And also try to get the letters of the parents and things…

Yogi: Yes Mother we wrote down already Mother, will do it Mother. 

Shri Mataji: Alright, May God bless you. 

So, now it’s clear?

Interviewer: We have the impression that might be normal because its spiritual and divine with yoga sahaja yoga solve all problems

Shri Mataji: Practically

Interviewer: Practically? Then it is a we say nice practical always well for all of us. So, some ashram masters they say use trick we have no time, we see after, you never see, we see after we have no time. You will through directly. 

Shri Mataji: Coming, in present you have to do it. Today you have come say it to me for problem and if I say I’ll see it later may be I might have solved the problem otherwise once you brought it to my attention my attention will have to work it out. My attention is such that you bring anything to my attention itsjust gets after. That’s how you start giving realization to 120. If he is not getting realization I am working hard on that person as far as possible. But even if I leave that person, the attention is working on him. But it reaches a certain point when it really values the whole thing then it leaves. “Karmanye vadhikarastephaleshu ma kadchan”. In our right to do the job. But not for the (food). We are not bothered. If it is done? Done. Otherwise, attention will see it. And this is a fact that the attention receives. And the tantrikas I have taken advantage. See supposing even ours say you see something very filthy you just turn yourself, isn’t it? What they have done in these temples that there were deities which were living deities and all that. These tantrikashave done dirty things. Extremely filthy things and the Goddess could not bear it. So, the attention disappeared. That area created negative. Then they start meeting all these spirits and all that and using it for destruction. That’s how tantrism do it. That’s true that’s the nature of the attention. You can’t help it. That if there something beyond redemption or something that is filthy against God or something the attention just reverse back. 

Interviewer: You don’t like to qualify yourself a lot of people were asking to are you God? If I, not a way of asking you how do you find it’s a mystery to find the energy you have to cure so many people always. And you are always in connection with the cosmic harmony. So..,

Shri Mataji: I have no mystery; see I know all the mysteries. Actually the trouble is I have no mystery. I know everything. Now, how do I know? Because I know. How do you know you are a human being? You are sure you are a human being.

Yogi: Somebody told me.

Shri Mataji: No, you were a child, you were born. Which children knows that they are not animals. The same way I know.

Interviewer: Then it can cure every disease?

Shri Mataji: Practically every, you see Sahaja Yoga is spontaneous living process. If something is dead, then it is not interested in curing it. But if anything is living say no one is there in a condition where if it’s living it can work out. But also I have seen that it plays a big role. What you have done in previous lives and in this life. Say an Indian lady came the other day to see me, she was all full of arthritis and she had the heart trouble, and she had a spondylitis and all such things. She came to me she said, ‘Mother why am I suffering so much I am such a believer of God, I have lead a very good life’. I said, may be because of suffering you have come to me. She said ’that’s true’. Perhaps because of that I have come to you. I said alright, within half-an-hour she got rid of everything she has. Everything, perfectly alright. She started dancing like she feel younger, she was 70 years of age. But I may not say it happens for everyone. Some there are complicated, their hands have this that. Some people just there at the end of it you see and you have to give them a little push and they are there. But some people are handsome they have, you see intellectual handsome, that handsome that difficult, first we have to disentangle them from all that and then bring them out. Because intellectual people you see they may outside more inside less. So, you have to push them in first of all, bring them in the center, keep them there so that they don’t move this side, move that side because they should have done so many things that they cannot accept that whatever done, they have done is going to be useless. So, so difficult thing for some people. But if you take to sahajayogaanything can be cured. Only in such cases where it is not cured, and more over if you have born, you have to die. Death has to come because sometimes it is better to die so that you have a new body. You will be born again so at the time of death if you desire you will be born again and then you get your realization that to have a very sickly body and Mother working hard on you, wasting Her energy. While if you become healthy you see there I can give realizations to many more. Like in England if I am there or in Belgium or anywhere at one time how many people come to and how many I can give realizations. 

​But in India I may say, I used to stay there hardly for three months, two months, and I stayed more in the west than in the East. Since I started my work. But there it is even one minute is sufficient for me to give realization to thousands of people and here nearly three hours also I am breaking my hands, feet and everything, nobody working up and they come back and slap you on the face sort of the thing you see. So, it depends on the quality of the seeker also. Because if the quality is first class, then the cure works fast. But our main aim is not to cure, it’s just a biproduct. See we are not interested in curing people nor interested in wasting energy into that. Main thing we have to do is to give realizations to many. That’s the main. As many as possible we try to give. So, all these years I have spent for western people because great saint are born here. You are all great saints in olden times. See you are born here because you are blessed. But in the blessings you have got lost. You are all saints; you are seekers no doubt about it. You are great seekers. You are born here, the seekers are born here. What to do you are so lost and I have to work with you and put you right. I am sure a day will come where all the seekers will come along. 

Interviewer: So people will be ill again because only they don’t believe in you and God? Sometimes you cure or you never cure in the beginning or processing starts

Shri Mataji: …start, you see actually I don’t think people get sick again. But if even they catch some struggle or something happens to them then they know how to cure immediately they can find out. So they can cure themselves. It’s not such a problem. But if somebody gets very sick then may be some reason for that kind of thing you see. I mean it is not a challenge you see what happens some people when they got realizations, oh, now we realized souls you see, so go about a without a shirt, without anything, just don’t bother about your body, don’t eat any food, do all kinds of things and then you get sick again. Then you come to ‘Mother I have got a bad throat; I have got a Vishuddhi’ these things. So we have certain things compulsory after sahaja yoga which are very mundane. But you have to wear a under shirt. Whatever may be the day of fashion you better wear under shirt all of you. Because when you perspire you get weak, and we have to look after the temple. Now your light is there. And this the temple. You should treat it as a temple and not to be used the way you like you see. This is what it is we have to look after our body. 

Interviewer: Your(Our) body is temple?

Shri Mataji: Yes, your body is temple of course. And there is the light of the Spirit which is now enlightened. So you have to pay due respect to it. You must really to respect your body. But people don’t respect you see and like somebody went into the sun like mad you see and sitting the whole day in  the sun you spoil your chakras. I mean you must understand all these things isn’t it? If you get after your body that poor body what will it do? It will react. 

Interviewer: You know how many people are following sahajayoga?

Shri Mataji: Oh, I really don’t..

Interviewer: No? It’s the proof that you don’t count like some organization?

Shri Mataji: No no, we don’t write. You see we get the names of people sometimes because in the beginning you see to call flat time or maybe we don’t have registers or anything, we don’t take any money nothing. So, it has nothing to do with the counting I mean I just can’t say how many we gathered. I can’t say exactly really number but they will it must be some thousands. Must be in thousands. 

Interviewer: Can we say so some are people very horrified to see us the same level Mohammad or Tao, Islam, Christians so all and we cannot say that you take the best of each, or you always say it’s the same thing , in this point or this point or this

Shri Mataji: We can prove it on Kundalini. It’s very simple to prove it. I will tell you an instance how we can prove it. There was a gentleman who came to see me coming from Iran, a doctor. He had cancer of his stomach. A staunch Muslim. And I told him because of you are a staunch fanatic, got the cancer of  stomach. He couldn’t believe but his wife has been said. So I said you have to believe that Mohammad sahab took many incarnations before and afterwards and that you cannot say that Mohammad sahab is the only one who came on this Earth and he is the last God on this Earth – it’s wrong. Because he himself has talked about the future. And who is going to do the future work if he is the last one and what about the future work talk resurrection day this that? Who is going to do that? He couldn’t accept it. I said will you accept that he was Nanaka? born as Nanaka. He said I don’t accept it. I said alright, I can’t help you I am sorry. So went back. He went to his hotel and all that. He tried all the doctors and they said that you give up, we cannot cure you. So his wife said Mother could you save it. So, he came back to me. I said, now do accept? Yes and if you say Mother. I won’t tell you lies int it? He said of course you won’t tell us lie. I said you do better accept it and alright accepted it. And I cured his cancer.  

Interviewer: Its incredible to do things, you have normal sexual life, no tobacco, no alcohol, so more like so you have to work with yourself?

Shri Mataji: That’s wrong it has to be simple because it is vital. Everything simple. You see it has to be there because after all now you will say oh hey how simple it is to see with the eyes we never say like that everything so clearly we can see the color, we can see the shape you see. How simple it is to see with these eyes do we say? There is a big camera and not that type, it’s a very different camera you see and this camera is existing there we never think that it is everything widely, has to be simple as we? We cannot read books to understand how to see things. I mean it is everyday life you see is so simple. Just see these trees they grow? How do they grow? Must be very complicated thing inside, but to look, to look at it, it is so simple. It works out in a way. Because the Divine is very efficient. See the telephones don’t go out, the electricity doesn’t fail, no instruments fail, it is so smoothly done you see its better than Belgian machinery you see. 

Interviewer: Is like, you say why hypnosis, why a cool parapsychology? I have the impression you said go out all the stage upper parapsychology, you don’t need because you play as magician.

Shri Mataji: You see, you don’t need no doubt you should never need it that’s the another sin. You see first the original sin is that you became human beings and started thinking for yourself and forgetting God – that’s the first sin you did. And the second one is to go anti-God you see to move right and left is the second sin. So, keep to the central path. And the central path is don’t go to this side or that side. You don’t need is not the point, you just don’t have that. because those are very dangerous places, you should not enter into it. 

Interviewer: But don’t you think, I know you don’t like to speak about it that’s example for so secret society like muscularly because why you think is useless here, why you think that? You think every man in the all muscularly bad?

Shri Mataji: Of course. It’s very bad because its all deals with spirits. They don’t know that they are dealing with spirits. See the results is that your banks now. You saw all these large people are organizing your banks and they do secret things and secretiveness you see what’s there to be secretive in Gods realm? there is nothing secret. The secret things like crawling into the caves and start doing under hands stuff you see. Is there an organization which why should be secret? First of all, why should it be secret? Alright, we too do not allow everyone to know the complete knowledge. Because in the beginning not easy. If you suddenly opens somebody’s eyes to the light he can be complaining this so the light will., but if we open out everything, it is to be told

Interviewer: But once this unclear() is open in one moment. We say usually initiation one year, two years stage after stage, maybe you wait it’s not a moment

Shri Mataji: That’s the money-making propositions. 

Interviewer: Sometime as the best is not making money. 

Shri Mataji: No, this John is money making. Tell me anyone who doesn’t make money? You can’t find them. You see all these are money making proposition as they said today you come then come tomorrow day after tomorrow.  moreover, some of the gurus I agree some of the gurus, he used to clear one chakra, then second chakra this that. But you should see there were, I must say something special about them. That is those who know me know me. Something special. But one should anybody desire. It’s like, we say that now we can go to the moon. Alright, but if you tell my grandmother, she won’t believe you see. Even if you show the television, it’s alright wrong. It’s not possible. It’s like that. Today is a jet age why not have a jet kundalini. Because you have grown so much outside something has to go downstairs also, down below the Mother Earth. 

Interviewer: How did you explain some Indian caves painting of men’s but not from hairs. They make the space vehicle also. How about you force? Un identified flying objects? You think all the civilization is above the cosmic world? 

Shri Mataji: You see, in the supra conscious area you can see all these, supposing you went into the supra conscious state, you can see these caves. But what is so important? For example, can you believe you have seen the Ganesha sitting down, you have got Hanumana sitting down, all them are just sitting down here around us but you can’t see them. But if you enter into supra conscious area, you can see, you can see the vibrations also sometimes. I don’t know now if you are developed you can see the vibrations like commas, if you are a realized soul, you can see. 

Interviewer: In the air, unclear()

Shri Mataji: In the air, that is Kundalini. that’s Kundalini, but chik chik chik chik like that you see, you can call it like the commas chik chik chik chik you see very clearly. Its less here, but in India, India is just calling you.  

Interviewer: I have seen Shakespeare unclear()

Shri Mataji: Fire? Flames. 

Interviewer: Some white white flames.

Shri Mataji: White flames. Yes that also it’s a sign of a some good souls coming near you. Trying to guide you. 

Interviewer: Can vibrations also be little bit like unclear() is that also be same way with vibrations?

Shri Mataji: You see after realization, after certain development, you can see my vibrations from my mouth flowing in, you can see everything as how they move, how they make a loop. We have some sahaja yogis in India were very good. See she told me that your vibrations are caught up by this-mike, you see, so it was very good idea, just let us start some other experiments. So,I started putting the mike on different chakras you see. And what I found was when I put into all got your chakras cured. It a very good collective start it is I thought that it works on the collective. 

Yogi: If you want to see unclear() we should leave now.

Shri Mataji: Yes yes, so we should leave now. Alright. So something to eat I would like to have? Oh, chana will do. You have chana? Alright?

Yogini: Would you like some more tea Mother?

Shri Mataji: I had. Very good. Chana will do before startingSothank you very much and more over all your questions are answered. 

Interviewer: Excuse me.

Shri Mataji: All your questions I will answer. Think of more and then you start writing. Advent have you got that Advent? How do you found it? He is thoughtless.

Interviewer: difficulty to ride in train for example, it is to be read in quite place. 

He had made it a very rock of Gibraltar like

Interviewer: changed something I don’t know what..

Shri Mataji: I changed and changed and changed and torture unclear(), because it should be straight isn’t it after all you cannot have a wrong algebra alter depictured head with..

So, I think a few shaja not to take uncelar() know what happens? A big question mark. 

Shri Mataji: No, I was just instrument. No no Leave it to me

Interviewer: You know why?

Shri Mataji: Krishna has said ‘Yoga Kshema Mahamyaham’. First if you get yoga, then you get your kshema. Yoga is your union and Keshama is your wellbeing. Once you take to yoga then kshema ll come

Keshma is well being. You should ask the Australian, they will tell you even better than the other. So many stories. You live in on the mundane life of money.  hmm so it was a very nice puja. I am very happy. Very happy. It’s not the number of people that matter to me, to me, how the puja is, [vehicle engine sound…]