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Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Just tell them how much you questioned Me. Tell Me, tell them how much you questioned Me. How much you question. At that stage when we started [unclear] I mean, he was [all the time questioning Me]. And this you didn’t tell, remember. I mean [unclear]…
Sahaja Yogi: I do remember. I do remember, Mother. But maybe I was going far of that [you know OR enough].
Shri Mataji: And he represented all of them. I could see through him all the questions that they are going to ask or they can, you know. But once I’ve answered that, [lot of them will apply], [then] I’ve seen [it], questions are seldom, seldom repeated.
Sahaja Yogi: Because once, [on one side OR when I was trying] to answer a category of [human beings OR maybe] but, Mother, I was, it was like you were like in front of a “turbulence”. How do you say in English? It was like firing at you, tatatatatatatatatata, like this.
Shri Mataji: Brigitte, it’s all right now. [The questions are OR First question is] over.
Sahaja Yogi: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shri Mataji: It’s all right. But yesterday like the lady came to ask Me a question. See what a good thing. She said, “Mother, why are we on this earth?” It’s a very different type of a question. What are we to do on this earth? Why are we here? [So] many different ways, of a question isn’t it? [Very]….
Sahaja Yogi: … Yeah!
Shri Mataji: Very positive. It’s just, “Do you think I have the Spirit which helps [me]?”
Can I have a shawl?
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, and we feel that in the questions, we feel the confusion. We feel the confusion of the people when they are asking You the question, because the confusion is taking the speed. How long I do the development of Sahaja Yoga? And if the question is repeated, especially….
Shri Mataji: It takes some time. And I know some people are [unclear], because you are all interconnected. So whether you are awakened or not, I can feel it. The questioning and so far I didn’t see that answering questions one could be very [enlightened OR important]. Very direct people. And I had to use a lot of discretion [unclear].
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, I [the original sin], you see, the first we discussed innocence and then ego.
Shri Mataji: But you can see God has given one thing to Sahaj Yogis: it’s innocence. But if you want to know about how this world was created, and the universe was created, isn’t it? Let the child be born [first].
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, but then, if it is our curiosity that it was also the start of [our seeking].
Shri Mataji: No, first curiosity was there, but when you are forbidden to know. It is not…
Sahaja Yogi: What was forbidden? What was forbidden?
Shri Mataji: Forbidden that you should try to know all these things.
Sahaja Yogi: Just forbidden to try to know.
Shri Mataji: Of course, it was absolutely forbidden. What was the need? What’s the use knowing all these things?
Another Sahaja Yogi: Which things, Mother?
Shri Mataji: All scientific things, what was the matter?
Sahaja Yogi: Knowledge of Kundalini was forbidden?
Shri Mataji: Yes, I mean, God could have given you everything. But [if] you, you wanted to achieve it by your own [this thing and all], [ She/He considers, obstinacy that] you should know on curiosity. See, like a child is told not to go in the other room.
Sahaja Yogi: Nothing [we are having]. But then you could not say that that belongs to God. Then [you won’t trust Him to OR you wanted us to do it], to find out.
Shri Mataji: No, first take the baptism. Freedom is first you see what you do, all right? And it’s told that you must obey to Him. All just to enjoy yourself. They are nicely perceived, everything. They had a body, who could bear all kinds of atmosphere, everything.
Sahaja Yogi: But there was no [way, no way] of recognition within.
Shri Mataji: You see everything, they had recognized Christ and they had recognized God. They knew it was God. They knew it, [aren’t they]? And they were proceeding and proceeding. With all that, everything is given, still.
Sahaja Yogi: I don’t understand.
Another Sahaja Yogi: Now, in the beginning they were [realized all]…
Shri Mataji: Aaa?
Sahaja Yogi: In the beginning it was realization, [in the human starts].
Shri Mataji: No, no, they were not realized. They were human beings. But they had to grow in [life / love], you see, in [inner] being as they don’t go in for all these.
Sahaja Yogi: Stay in the middle.
Shri Mataji: That’s why it is, you see.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, I don’t understand this because if they were not realized surely they were not fulfilled because that’s…
Shri Mataji: No, no, [it’s only] they would have been fulfilled. They were told that, you see, supposing now I give you a house, very big, everything, garden, you have no problem of money, nothing. You just stay here and enjoy yourself and grow. Have no complications. You have every freedom. And also told us only a particular thing you just don’t do, that is to go into the inquiry about something. It means mental projections, simple thing.
Sahaja Yogi: Aha. So the first thing is mental projection.
Shri Mataji: Of course, thinking is the main thing.
Sahaja Yogi: This I did not understand.
Shri Mataji: Yes, the mental projection in the sense that God has told us to obey Him. But they won’t [obey]. It happens even in Sahaja Yoga. I tell you not to do it, but you just do it. And then you suffer for that. So the other way was left, was to make them understand through their own sufferings. This is specially, this is done as specially. Then all those things, you see, started off, because you went so wrong and everything. And then, you see, then it started that we had [unclear]. I mean He, He [had no OR could not] control over them, in a way.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, it’s true.
Shri Mataji: There was no control over human beings of God. [Is this] He could control them.
Sahaja Yogi: But then it is not the…What I was a little bit afraid, Mother, [it can sound] when we read the book of Genesis [it can sound like], I could never accept this story. Because it sounds like your seeking itself was a sin actually.
Shri Mataji: What was it?
Sahaja Yogi: [It sounded like if] seeking is a sin.
Shri Mataji: No, no, because the knowledge is confused. You see, a big confusion it is there. Then you don’t have to have [vidya] also. You see, your vidya would have been given there. So Self-realization would have been there. What is the vidya needed? You could have come up. Now the vidya has to be there also because you have so many complications within you. You see, you can’t imagine how terrible it is.
Sahaja Yogi: OK, good, without…
Shri Mataji: God has lost all control over human beings. They became ego-oriented, separated from God. They developed, developed their identities. Not only that; they created all problems for themselves. Now, I mean to work it out. One had to do a very big programming for them to learn how to use their freedom. Now in their freedom how they behave? See, you can see it in Sahaja Yoga.
Sahaja Yogi: Yeah.
Shri Mataji: How Sahaja Yogis get entangled into their smaller things saying, “This is mine. That is mine. That is mine,” isn’t it? It’s like that, whatever you may try. All this is, this is, actually the knowledge they wanted to know was this knowledge. And there was no need for them to, [first they] get realization, Sahaja Yoga. Nothing was needed. There was no need to have incarnations. They send incarnations to try.
Sahaja Yogi: That’s why.
Shri Mataji: Because nothing else was needed. They were all ruined. You would have not seen Me otherwise also but without questioning of His work. You see, it is a very long way. And how many will not come. Then what a headache for God. I mean, the other[s] say/things [need] tremendous patience. And still they are disobeying, are disobeying. Human beings are disobeying all the time. It’s not only curiosity. It’s also their own ego to tell other people this thing is done. Simple curiosity. And there is no way of understanding how they have to serve God. Why? I mean, imagine God’s created them, told them everything and they have to just wait and see. That’s all. No, but they must do something that is told not to do. It is a powerful story, but because it is so symbolical these stupid fools cannot explain. These are another set of people who are just the same, part and parcel of the whole. Just dim style of a people. So all this is disobedience.
Krishna came, said, “Sharanam, Sharanam Mamah, Sharanam Mamah, Sharanam Mamah,” you see. Buddha came and said, “Buddham Sharanam Gachami is this, this is.” Everywhere is surrender your ego. Surrender? Why to surrender? “We are great, you see, created by ourselves.” Ego is tremendous. I mean, only a Mother can see that and then bear it. And despite all that, God tried to save you because [God does that]. So supposing you want, you are given this house. What is the need to know from where it has come, so much [money/planning], this, that? What is the need? Suppose the [carpet] is there. Why? God is not that. They don’t tell us. Their heart if they would have had God there, obeys. Obedience of a man. Then they [know/get] the response.
Sahaja Yogi: What’s wrong with that?
Shri Mataji: They are weak. With your brain you cannot know. You really have brains; that’s all. And imagine the tremendous amount of trouble God has [to take/get]. So see the extremes, the religions, this religion, that religion. Then you see how human beings [have been OR are] doing really stupid things throughout the seeking. When He has given you everything, what was the need? I can understand one [argument maybe] but you can’t take them also because [there is OR they did] a little bit progress, the [others with the] whole mountains and mountains they have created out of ignorance. Because the more you think, the more ignorant you become of God. It’s very, very symbolic, but the trouble with Bible, you see, is that was a very abridged form, you see, the whole thing. And because of that [you just], all the small necessary things I just spoke of them, unless and until you [project/forget] it, all the time, [then you cannot see Bible].
But I didn’t talk about this before much because, you see, that [would/could] make people [think OR feel] so again doing all these, again doing all this nonsense and feel guilty and [say nasty things]. A man, it’s like a bull, you see, who gets adamant, obstinate. While he’s running he is horrible. When he stops he is horrible; no control. So according to the plan it’s gradually I’m opening My heart. I mean, saying what is the truth behind the Sahaja Yoga. I mean, this is the effort of God, you can say, the effort of God, how patient He is. And anybody who was sent here, to tell you anything was killed. Why? Anybody tried to control or say, “Do this for God,” was finished. Disobedience was not only there, but also arrogance is also there. So when I tell to these English Sahaja Yogis, “You must meditate every day, do Pujas, this thing, that thing. To say that, you have to surrender also.” Adi Shankaracharya ultimately gave up. He said, “Done, Baba, finish[ed] with these intellectuals. So I am just going to sing [a/the] praise of Mother that so that She comes on this earth and solves the problems for all of us.” He wouldn’t go into the, anymore, [well], worry of convincing, people. Got frightened. [Cause/because] if Mother comes She solves the problems. It is their work you see, their work. Everybody gets. If you see their lives and the [end OR error OR enemies] the[y OR people] get.
Imagine killing these people; so many [wrote the Scriptures] doing this, doing that. And on top of that when they are dead making big, new, organizations, all these organizations and then using those organizations to fight each other. I mean, it was supposed to lead you to . Absolute stupidity, I tell you, absolute stupidity. That’s what I thought. But not [what], [you shouldn’t say]. I say so. I say that it is stupidity because still the [game] it’s not over. Let us try the last chance. If that is so, then you must all understand your responsibility as Sahaja Yogis. You must understand your responsibility. Forget about your personal life. This personal, forget it. How much time you think about your personal life? You have to have a big vision of yourselves. See now how what you are and what’s important. Otherwise, when the other force will start you’ll be thrown out. All this stupidity. It’s all right. You should worry about the present, not about anything else. Couldn’t be in [unclear] daily circumstances, you see, [when/then] they get involved, little [localized] things. And then from there they start [pumping]. What to do? It’s so, the times.
I say because I can’t stand it. So finish this nonsense. Let it be finished. All the time you have to appease them. Appease them; even Sahaja Yogis I have to appease. I can understand you see My family if I have to appease them because [they’re my family]. But here the Sahaja Yogis also take Me to dust absolutely. And then the questions like the one people ask, “How is it I am a still suffering so much?”, “How is it this is happening?” Are, what have you to ask [this question]? You have only gained out of it. But you’ve seen the expanse of Sahaja Yoga also. Such a thing occurred, historical, such a great thing. Even, I mean, ego, if it is there, is the greatest satisfaction for the ego even. I mean, it’s a temptation for the ego to take a jump at that big [ issue / vision]. But if that’s not even there, the ego, it becomes superego then. Depends on. See, human beings are unpredictable. Worst of all, you can’t say whether they’ll act [like/as] scorpions or they can act as snakes or as the wild [boars] also. You just don’t know how they act.
Ha, I’ll first talk to you about [deities], what are the deities . So you put it off.
Sahaja Yogi: Now, it’s all these, Mother?
Shri Mataji: See all the Shaktis, now. Radha and Krishna. Radha and Krishna. But Krishna is the One which is apparent, [Hindi], [was apparent / Radha] you see. She is the Shakti Viraat. Like the Mother Earth is the Shakti, isn’t it? She is the Shakti. But Ganesha is the one which [is innocence / respects]. She sits behind. You see, even if you see Me I give you the Shraddha. I have all right, of course many powers, all [powers/powerful] of the deities. But I do not play that role of being an all-powerful. I never order you [about ganas]. Nothing. I may be behind your powers. I mean, what I’m worried is that you should have your powers.
But the women here are, either they are half [way through / baked women], neither women nor men sort of a thing, or they are men. They are not what they should be like women. So their personality is very horrid. They don’t know their role. I mean, if somebody comes to your house I’ve seen, if the woman of the house is cooking or doing anything in the house, if she is the one, she just tries to be stingy or this, this some sort of a thing she’ll do. She will not open [hand/heart]. You see an Indian woman; she’ll cook ten things in the house, to see that the, she’ll look after the guests. I mean, she’ll go all out to [do it]. It’s a very different situation. I do not feel welcome in a Western house, I really tell you. I am not surprised but it’s all right, Sahaja Yogis. It is all right. But if you go to any Western’s house, see Gregoire, it’s impossible. C.P. will never stay in a Western house. You may give him [whoever will invite OR whatever you like]. He would prefer to stay in a hotel there because, you see, if C.P. will see the face of the person, they react in such a way. He saw people are trying to create some fuss or they’ll create some problem or they’ll show such a face that the another person doesn’t want. I mean, they are not shameless; they are shameless people.
I went to this lady’s house. I mean an Indian woman. Now see, you have seen Me how I work with that. Every lath of the house I know; every hold of the house I know, every arrangement also of the house I know, everything I look after and neat it. My husband is just like living in a hotel, sort of, if you go and ask. He doesn’t know anything what I have got, where I have got, what are the, everything I know of My house. And I do everything in My house, decorating, everything. Now, you’ve seen My husband. He doesn’t think. Now if I go out I’ll worry about what to buy for my guests who will be coming, this is lacking in the house. My husband does not bother. He’s not bothered what I am going to have. He doesn’t know even what things we have in the house. I bother about everything because it is My job to look after the guests, to make them feel comfortable, to make them feel happy. Here the women only have rights, no duties. This is the best part of it. They have only rights, no duties. Then how can it be? How can you make them understand? This love, love is just, just talking nonsense. Giving love means only showing off, put your hands round their necks and to caress, all nonsense about. It’s you, it is nothing but just hands. It doesn’t mean anything. If they wait for a year or so this Anapurna shakti come out. Then they get a shock. Better to marry again for the other sensations. It’s not reality. It’s not true love. It is a very demanding. True love never demands anything. Doesn’t demand; doesn’t demand anything. It gives; it gives, you see. And then as you give, others respect you, understand you, this and that. But this is not only you keep demanding, “Bring this for me. You must get me. If you haven’t got a Coke for me then you are the worst person,” isn’t about that also.
Sahaja Yogi: [False guru].
Shri Mataji: But here women [make/have] too [much/many] demands. Thank God, in India we have still preserved everything, the duties. Woman is so beautiful. I mean, it’s such a joy for them. [unclear] People are coming to [see] her so. She, she goes out of the way, to the market to get things everybody rejoice. You see, it’s a thing of joy for them [about it]. And this lady, you see, she made all the Sahaja Yogi[ni]s clean her bathroom, do this, do that. I saw her. What’s her name? Poor Malika was working like a servant in her house, first day in the house. Even Natalie was cleaning the bathroom, and you see they become like owners of the house. You see, suddenly they want to grab. “This is my husband, my family, my house.” And no duties for the house, nothing. First duty is how you serve your guests, how you look at others. You see, because your husband has got a personality which involves other people.
As I said [about image] that he is not a grown-up. You can see his image as somebody, as a leader, or a Sahaja Yogi. All right. What are you doing to support him in that image? As Mathias as he [got leader], he was no more in the eyes of others. All right, he was later a Sahaja Yogi. That, that’s no worry. What is it? Nothing much. Now he has a certain image. How are you going to support him in that image? Are you rejoicing about it? Are you happy about it? If so, what are you doing about it? It’s, you see, then whole [Puja / thing] all the time when some way or another is to be done, then they won’t tell him it’s wrong because mothers are doing like that, as they are.
Tell Robert… [Talk interrupted.]
It is not a life of humiliations. This is they should understand. You see, this is not the life, but your position in life, it’s like this Mother Earth. You are so powerful that you are the giver. Only the person who has can give. What can your men give? Only the women can give. They are the shaktis. So for a shakti there’s nothing like humiliation. See, she has to give. So the life of humiliation and all that human talk of because they lack something within themselves. You see, you do not take, assume the power what you are. Logically you are humiliated. If you assume your power as the person who has to give, then you’ll be surprised. You’ll be respected the most. And the family will say, “There’s one woman like that.” Everyone respects her. Everyone say, “She’s such and such.” So it’s like a, as I think Rosemary or somebody said, that an Indian woman is like an Indian flower of magnolia. I don’t know, in India I have to have a magnolia flower, that wherever it is, from a very distance you can smell it, that there is an Indian woman, in her poise, in her dignity, in her decency, in her decorum, in her dharma. She, in India, the women are dharma, not the men’s quality. Women are dharmic. They are the [givers/preservers of morality]. You’ll seldom find a woman in India who is not dharmic. Men can be adharmic. They can go on to all sort of things. They get disturbed. We don’t even know to what extent they can do it. Some of them are horrid men. But women, you know, they have dharma. And on that point they fix the family.
Now some people say that, “Why should the women should be dharmic? Why should she take this?” Because she’s appointed for it. Now supposing a person is appointed for a job and he takes bribes. Then? He takes bribes; he’s punished, because he’s appointed for that job. In the same way, a woman is appointed for dharma. And if she’s appointed for dharma and if she doesn’t know how to keep her own dharma, then soon it’s [to be] taken [from her/for granted]. Men won’t be. Men will be punished for other things if they take something in the political life or in their, their official life or something. But women for dharma. And this is a big problem. The inner strength of women is not developed. Outer, that you see they’ll have ten types of cosmetics, this, that. The body should be nice to attract the men. All the men of the world should look at them, you see, put a sort of a, all the time an image like a prostitute walking on the streets. Everybody must look at you as if you are selling your body. And the whole system it’s like this. In India if you are coming it’s just the other way round. A woman will cover herself very well. You see, if she sees somebody then she gets covered her whole body. Or she’ll put a palu on her head, get covered. If it is in the north also they cover heads. But in Maharashtra, in fact, immediately it, if they think a man’s coming they’ll just cover their heads or cover their bodies. Here there’s other way round. The men will bother themselves. What is there for men to bother yourselves? Whole thing, the whole system is like this. I mean, all this life, on dharma, you are all right for the political, economic things like this. You have better telephones sort of things, but look at these things. That’s also done for, by men because men are like that. And they could be womanish if they are enslaved. Then they are not men. Then they are not men. They do not have that position.
So this kind of a thing, of course, domination and all that, we always talk of. Now, I mean if you ask an Indian women, “Are you dominated?” they’ll say, “No, we are not [unclear].” Even [at any cost]. Then we are protected. You see, once we develop one idea that we don’t want other men to use our chastity, the whole system changes. We want to be protected.
And now, you see, I’m in the house. If I am not travelling, if I am not going out anywhere for Sahaja Yoga, I’m just sitting at home. I don’t go out anywhere. Nowhere. You just see; I just don’t go out. People will just walk out, just [for/sort of ] a walk or stroll. I don’t. I never even go to any garden or any place. Ask Gustav. He has been telling Me, “Come to see these flowers,” and I said, “Let C.P. come. Then I’ll come.” Just no desire. When you all are there, all right, with My children I can walk around. With My grandchildren I may go to take them [with Me out of the house] . But, you see, to enjoy luxury, nothing, I have nothing to gain. What is there to gain at all? I am happy [unclear]. But just to please you to go around with you, it’s all right. That’s only for children’s sake. But unless and until you develop that [witness] among the women, they won’t strive, not [unclear] won’t come. It’s something that is imposed by men also, because the other men, you know, they run after horrible women, and your idols are like that, you see. So it’s a prostitution. It’s a, absolutely is the way you look at your women is. If they start looking at women who are more attractive, this, that, so your women try to be like this. And this transition is there. Once the Sahaja Yoginis understand they will change themselves. Either they look like [bhooties], that they are the worst and the most unhappy women, or they look like the [smartest/smarties]. It’s one of the truth. Looking like anyone, that’s so easy. I don’t know, it’s a very different thing and it’s the only women who can really sin. But when will they be obeying? Because their ideas about womanhood are very second-hand, because they are not their own ideas. The ideas come from men. Whatever is projected, tomorrow if a woman wears, say, a big tin on her head and every man starts looking at her with that tin on her head, then all the women will wear a tin and a bun like that. There was something called bouffant. I don’t know what was that called as bouffant and that was just put on the head, some sort of a thing and on that was [built in]. In India is a very common [word such a] bouffant. There’s a very nice picture about it. [unclear], it’s a very sweet picture. You should have that, how… [incomplete]
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi