What is to be expected as a seeking and as the goal of the seeking?

Institute of New Age, New York City (United States)

1982-10-26 Public Program Talk NYC NITL HD, 85'
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Public Program Day 1, New York, (US) 26th October 1982

Shri Mataji: (unclear)

Yogi: I said that if you are a scientist you know that …

Shri Mataji: Scientific?

Yogi: Yes scientific introduction that if you are a scientist you know that there is something that proceeds the creation of the universe. What is this thing we must seek.

Shri Mataji: America is a country which has attracted many people to come down to talk about spirit, about God, about new consciousness, new awareness and all those things that you have heard about. I’m sure you must be fed up with that.

Everybody has been talking so much, that you have been targeted, somehow I feel,  since long, of the speech making of all these great people who try to bring you to something very dynamic, something great and I felt that I should give you some pause before I start telling you about it. That you cannot talk about it. You cannot brainwash people. It’s not a mental projection by which you can achieve God.

This is a very simple thing we have to understand. That if anything has to happen to us, as all of them have been talking and me too, it should be something that is living. It has to be a living process.  Evolution has been a living process. It’s not a dead process of thinking. This is very difficult for human beings to understand that we became human beings from a monkey stage or from ameba stage without thinking about it or planning about it. We just became. And that becoming was spontaneous, was a living thing. Once we understand this simple thing then the whole thing becomes very simple because all the living things that happen are extremely simple to look at they may not be but to look at they are extremely simple.  This understanding has to come to us.  For example if you want to sprout a seed, what do you do, you just put it in the Mother Earth and it sprouts. The scientists only know this that if you take a seed and put it in the Mother Earth then it sprouts. That’s the knowledge they have but it’s much more.  Can we do it? It’s (or if/is?) the Mother Earth can do it. Do we have the capacity of the Mother Earth to do it? How does do it? And how is it that little, small little seed has all the maps of all the trees it will be. (Does) Scientists cannot answer any one of these questions because this is not the knowledge. This is what is apparent.  Is there (not sure what Mother says), there is nothing that is not there they can tell you. So these great gurus have come on this earth to tell you about something great and unknown, something  from the heavens and you people who are so scientific minded got very much impressed.  Supposing they were naive, uneducated, couldn’t speak your language, then they were the best because you thought it was an antidote to your mad thinking.  Then there’s some who came that gave you some sort of a brain washing and thought this was the path.  But there must be something about you, the Americans, the way these people came to you there must be some reason.  The reason is that they knew there were real seekers in this country who are just waiting to get to reality. They were aware of it and that’s how they came over to this country.  From India, America is the furthest end I tell you. If you travel by ship it takes a month, it takes at least 30 days or 28 days something like that. Minimum of minimum. Sometimes it can be months.

So why is it of all the things they came to America was the reason that they knew there are seekers and they may be able to sell their knowledge in this rich country. This was the great attraction that they had. And still Americans never realised why these people were coming to us and telling us about these things, emptying our pockets, filling up their own bank balances.  Because you are scientific minded and here it is that you feel that if it is spiritual, science fades.  And you never used your brains to reach any logical conclusion what is to be expected as a seeking and as the goal of the seeking.

Logically we must reach the point where you should know what you have to seek and who can guide you.  Without that, headlong you went into it.  I know the frustrations and the disappointments. Now logically let us come to the point.  First and foremost thing as I told you, that if it is evolutionary process we are awaiting then it has to be spontaneous, it has to be a living process, by some living force, this is first conclusion we all should reach before giving up all the scientific attitude.  Second conclusion we should come to, that the living process cannot be achieved through human effort. Which is difficult to accept but it’s a fact. So there has to be some supreme power, we may call it a Divine power, Gods power to do it. This is the second conclusion you must reach if you are honest about it, you must accept it that yes living processes are done by living power.  We cannot transform one flower into fruit, let’s accept that.  Billions and billions of them are every moment transformed. Who does that? Is there any power beyond that does it? That’s the power we have to seek. Third conclusion should be we should seek that power which is doing the living work. Forth conclusion should be that evolutionary process if it is to happen to us you cannot pay for it either. You cannot pay for it. That’s one thing one must know that you cannot pay for your evolution.  Try to pay any amount to a monkey can he become a human being? Money oriented people cannot understand that this. They cannot.

But simple Indians will know. They will reject an idea that they have to pay for their self-realisation. Impossible how can you pay for it (maybe add ‘?’). These must be parasites who have come here to take your money and live on that. This is a sign of a parasite who earns money and lives on other people’s money. I call it opium. They are dealing in opium these days. You cannot pay for it. And you cannot take money for it. It’s insulting. Actually, I came in 1973 in this country that time you were much affluent I think and much more money orientated and the head was swollen like this with your money, you wouldn’t listen to me, that time you wouldn’t listen to me. That I can tell you this much. Of course I had halls full and all that but they gave me a very wise advice that but mother unless and until you are going to charge Americans they are not going to look at you. I said thank you very much. Those who pay for it cannot get it.

And this they could not understand. I had such funny experiences that I was amazed that people are so naive.

They do not know and what are they going to go in for. They are so naive about the knowledge, the real knowledge, the knowledge of the roots. So this is the conclusion one has to reach.

Now there are people who paid to so many. Mostly I get people that are bankrupt from these people. Doesn’t matter. Forget it. Don’t condemn yourself for that. Or don’t reject me for that. Is alright nobody likes to feel that we have been befooled. No, you are naive and they are too cunning.

If somebody says something, must you believe that person. Like somebody told me he claims to be Christ. I said alright,  ask him to walk on the water finished. Hardly two minutes will take to find out if he is Christ or not. Then there’s another one who says that you can fly. He’s taking 6000 rupees to make you fly.  Now think about it. And it is you who have been paying this man for flying. Ask him to fly himself once. Why not put him on the leaning tower of Pisa, what is (don’t recognise this part) better use it. Put him down there and let’s see how far he can go. At least that will end another nonsense. It’s a serious matter also to understand that you are helping satanic people with your money. Is this money earned by bad means that it should go to such horrible things. Money itself has some auspiciousness about it.

You have made all these satanic people prosper to this extent that some of them have got so much money that (it is), it can be used for the development of the whole third world. I understand that you people are very sensitive but what about sensitivity to reality. So the last and the top most logical conclusion should be that we have to be honest to ourselves til we have found out the reality, we are not going to believe into anyone. If it is there it should be evident. Some of them (have going through) are going through a phenomena called as punishment of sharpish (check this). I don’t know if you know that but the punishment of Sharpish says of this fellow Sharpish tried to cheat people and he went and cheated also the king. He said I’m a big architect and will build a big and very big palace for you. And the king poor thing that time believed in him and gave him a lot of money and please go and build the palace for me.

After a year or so when he went to the site Sharpish said yes see I made the great  palace for you. See here is your court and here is where you going to sit.

There was nothing. It was all wilderness. You are going to sit on this throne and here people are going to come and bow to it so you should see how I have done the whole job. And the king started thinking am I mad or is this fellow mad. Immediately he realised this was the trick. He said very good, you have done a very good job, that’s the best job that anyone can do but I must give you a present. Very instant present because I can’t wait any longer, I must give you a present. He said I would request you to come sit on this throne. So very nicely Mr sharpish walked up to the throne and so called throne, and sat down.

Now keep sitting there. He took the pose as if he was sitting. Now imagine a person to sit like that. This is the Punishment of Sharpish. This is the punishment of Sharpish. They are hanging in the air, they don’t know what to do.

If you have paid for even the worst film, you want to go through it because you have paid for it. And that’s what they are doing, you’ve paid for it better go through it.  This is done under a cover and very little know they are going towards hell.  Towards diseases which are incurable. Towards horrible experiences that they are going to have. They are going to lose all their personality, their families, anything that is normal, they are not going to have. They are going to become abnormal people. Ending up in a lunatic asylum maybe if not in the hell.

It is sad, it’s very sad that great saints should be born in this country and should be lured by people that are telling them all falsehood.  That they should not have sensitivity to reality, it’s a very sad thing. This attack started long time back and has been again and again, waves after waves have been coming to this country. This country plays a very important role in the spiritual evolution of man as a whole. Nobody has told you what you are, where you stand in the whole cosmos and what is your position in this cosmos and what role you have to play because they never knew about it perhaps or perhaps they never wanted you to know about it. So when I come now, what I find.

The people who are to be adorned as saints, to be invited in the kingdom of God are in the wretched of conditions. They are so conditioned some of them are, that you cannot talk to them. If they are not conditioned, they are in such a miserable state you cannot do anything about them.

And even if they want to listen to you it’s difficult to give them Realisation. This is actually is the situation believe me.

But I have a duty, a duty towards the seekers and the duty is first of all to tell you that Spirit is within you.

Whatever you might have done, whatever mistakes you might have committed, the Spirit exists unharmed. The only thing that has been harmed is your central path of ascent. That has to be corrected. That must be treated with great care and if somehow or another you can put it in a condition that is sufficient to raise the kundalini you can manage the show.

So if it is a living process what should happen to you? Also that should be clear cut before us. What should happen to us when we are seeking and what should we achieve. What has happened to us in evolution. What is the difference between us and animals. In general it is one that is our awareness is very different from theirs, of a higher awareness, we have a subtler awareness. Like we have awareness of the filth, the dirt, the colour, animals don’t have, there are many other things but for example I am saying. So something has to happen in your awareness. Your awareness has to become something else and what should it be.

Should it be that you suddenly start jumping. In my programme we had some people once. Very embarrassing. But they suddenly started jumping towards me. I said what’s the problem. They had been to some guru who taught them how to jump

and one of them would not sit on the ground. I said why don’t you sit down.

It would be a nice idea to sit on the ground

He said no because then I start jumping like a frog. I said jumping like a frog.

My guru told me that my kundalini is awakened. I said Really? What makes you think that your kundalini is awakened Because I jump like a frog. Now I said after evolution are you going to become like a frog or an earth worm? What are you going to become? Can you imagine? This is very prevalent and absolutely accepted that you become an abnormal person if you are to get realisation.  You have to be absolutely a normal to be realised soul.  Such people lead absolutely normal lives if you see them. Take great people like Kabir, great people like Nanaka, Christ, Rama, Krishna, any one of them. They were absolutely normal people. There’s one guru who worships his wife like his mother. It’s absurb, it’s untraditional. It’s never done in the whole history of humankind, leave alone in India. All sorts of funny things they are doing, standing on their heads. Are we now going to walk on our heads. We must know we have to be first normal people. And the ascent if it has to be, within our awareness, within ourselves. Not outside, not going to grow on our horns. This is a simple thing which people cannot understand and they start doing all kinds of abnormal things. This is not reasoning. This is not logic. So we come to a point where we think of our awareness. We should happen to our awareness that you become the master. You become the master of your awareness. I’ll give an example how you will know what is a master is. Say there’s a car it has got an accelerator and a break so when you are trying to learn driving, first you try the accelerator and then the break and then this and make mistakes, I don’t know how many people you will kill, hurt yourself after breaking ten cars, maybe twenty cars, ultimately you become a driver. Doesn’t matter. Makes no difference, so you are a driver now. You start driving. You get a certificate as a driver. With all the errors you have committed, doesn’t matter. But still you are not the master. The master is sitting behind. He’s still watching you. He’s still looking at you. When you become the Spirit you become the master. That means you start watching yourself and the break and the accelerator and the car. You are no more involved into it. You are a witness. But you know everything that you are doing. Suddenly you start jumping, and you say I have no control over it. You have a complete control to begin with as a driver only you should have. As a master you should even control the driver within. So in your awarnesss you must have the complete control over yourself. Whatever is uncontrolled is funny. Could be that you are playing into the hands of something else. To understand this on kundalini,

I would like to tell you about the awareness of human beings. Now as far as I’m concerned I request you that you should not accept me blind folded. Blind people are no good for something that we are going to do. But, you should not also be closed people or should not have barriers against me. Like scientists they put up a hypothesis. Take it as a hypothesis with an open mind and once it is proved then you must accept it. With that understanding, let us move now to see what I have to say about our awareness. This is the picture of the tree of life within us. On the left hand side the blue line you see, is the line that’s in the Sanskrit language is called as Ida nadi, is the subtle channel of our desire. The power of desire flows through it. On the right hand side we have another channel, is the channel of action, the power of action, flows through it.

These two left and right side channels, these subtle channels within us, manifest outside in the gross as left and right sympathetic nervous system. In the centre that you see are the seven subtle centres which give rise or manifest in the gross in the gross to the plexuses which we know of in the medical science. Now the central path as you can see has a gap in between and the development of our parasympathetic nervous system is the achievement of our evolution. Actually whatever is in the central nervous system is reflecting what we have achieved in our ascent. Whatever is not in the central nervous system is not there. But could be there are subtler sensitivities that are not yet manifested so we should keep ourselves open to it. Now the psychological side of it, or the deeper side of it, on the left hand side, the left hand side is the psyche Mr Freud talked of, he’s another half baked attacker because he just saw you as a sex point. Imagine he didn’t have eyes even to see human beings as they are. He could not think there are sublime people, they are not just sex points, even animals are not, how can human beings be. So he reduced you to sex points and peoples accepted him. When it’s surprising how you can accept a person like Freud blindfolded he himself was horrible person. He had bad relations with his own mother, most abnormal thing to do. I mean in India nobody can think of such a thing. I mean not normal people o think, they not so much much mentally equipped, which is why they have such  bad relations with the mother (laughs). This is only a special quality, half mentally,  very clever people to do such smart things. Poor simple individuals can’t think of such nonsense as that. And this is what this person talked of because he had that. Generalised. Most of the psychologists with all due respect to our person who introduced you, you see he is a psychiatrist but most of them deal with abnormal cases and pathological cases and generalise it. Can you imagine? How can you generalise a pathological case? That’s not a general thing. More over they are attacked by the patients who come to them and they become like that. This fellows suffered with cancer, died with cancer but he is the leader of so many people, he has sophisticated ways I don’t know what sophisticated ways of bathrooms he has got. This is the level we came to, to such a ridiculous (method) ways by the guidance of this great man who came on this earth. Thank God I went to Austria and when I talked against him and they were all very happy about it because they thought it was a blot on their name that he worked in Austria. So this is what it is, the psyche, which of course is knowledge, I’ve told you already, he only knew about one centre down there. So this psyche of yours actually works out all your conditioning and all your past.  All your subconscious beyond this is the collective subconscious. First the present subconscious, then the sub conscious and then the collective subconscious which means all that is dead resides in that part. On the right hand side, is the power of action which we use for physical and mental efforts. Caters for our future, you see for the people who are futuristic you see, they are never in the present, they are futuristic to such an extent I met somebody that was sick. He had forgotten his name. He had forgotten his fathers name. But when he said he had forgotten his wife’s name his wife started crying. She couldn’t believe it. She said I don’t know even that. So the futuristic people who die are in the collective supra-conscious beyond that the futuristic the planning type. For example Hitler must be somewhere there. So this is the other side we have. Then down below we can say is the hell and on top of our head, here, is the supra consciousness that we have to achieve, where you become the master. With LSD people see colours, they can see auras. So many people who take LSD can never see me, they always see light. They can never see my body. They only see light. They can’t see in the present. They see something that is in the future. All such experiences take place when you cross this limit and go to the supra conscious area. Like seeing the light, seeing the cross, like seeing some sort of aura or other things which means these are the causal of the elements.  To see the causal of the elements is the supra conscious entry. Then the other side as I told you caters for your past, is your emotional side, and these people see ghosts, the dead, they are the ones who do parapsychology, ESP, ESD, all kinds of things which we accept as scientific. These are all done through the possession of dead spirits, cancer is caused by the left side activity of people in the sense that the left side triggers it. Recently I saw a very wonderful programme of BBC. I being a normal person though I’m supposed to be a saint, I see all BBC programmes (laughs), that which are interesting. In that they showed some doctors that the cancer, though the situation for cancer is created over activity of a person maybe, but it is triggered by the attack by some proteins which they call as protein 58 protein 52. Of course, poor doctors don’t know what is is so they call them protein 58, protein 52. Whatever you may call them, but they are nothing but spirits, nothing but spirits, and they trigger the happening of cancer. Malities (??) and all such diseases which cannot be cured by doctors because they just deal with the right side, with the physical side of man, they cannot cure it. They may have to cut your nose, or cut this part and cut that part because they think they are curing cancer by cutting you part by part. But the problem is that your attention has gone onto the left side left hand side too much and it has been triggered by these attacks. Be careful about this parapsychology I tell you. It’s most surprising that these parapsychologists four of them, not parapsychologists I should say but must be something to do with them, came to India to see me and asked me to help them how to fly. Just imagine. I said who told you that I teach all this nonsense to people to fly. You’re not going to become birds now. No they said we want to remove our body from this and go to moon and go everywhere. But I said why do you want to do it? He said because Russians are doing it. In competition with them you see. They are going into the dead, why not we go. I said Russians are doing it. Are you sure? He said yes. I said but I warn you that if you do all this you will be possessed and you will lose all your so called freedom. He said it doesn’t matter but we want to do it, despite that.  And they were scientists and something big in the government, I don’t that time it was something like 1970 I’m telling you about. But I said why? What is the need? You want to be enslaved? Yes we want to do it. But then I asked one question who told you to come to me to do this? They said there’s one fellow called patanjali who is a journalist who told me. This patanjali has told you I’m surprised because he is the one of whom I have cured of this trouble and he is telling you to take this trouble onto you. I can cure you, I cannot put the disease into you. This is the situation of the people who are so ego orientated, that they do not want to go to hell even to satisfy their ego. Now what is happening to Russians. Parapsychology will finish them but what about Americans? That may also effect you. First thing you’ll get is cancer. Multiple sclerosis. All such diseases you’ll get which are caused by the triggering, by the proteins which are named as protein 58 and 52 and 56 that’s all they’ve found out but I know at least 1000’s of them. As it is, at least Russians don’t have these horrible satanic gurus there. Thank God for that, at least they will be saved. As it is you are attacked. On top of that, you have got scientists dealing with parapsychology. They don’t know why it happens, how it happens, if you don’t know how it happens better not do it. That’s a simple way of doing it. Whatever is unknown is not Divine. We can’t hear with this ear every frequency of the sound do we. You know that. Whatever is needed we know, we hear it. Whatever is not needed we don’t hear it. So whatever is unknown, if that happens to you, why must you accept is blindfolded without finding it what it is.