What is to be expected as a seeking and as the goal of the seeking?

Institute of New Age, New York City (United States)

1982-10-26 Public Program Talk NYC NITL HD, 85'
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Public Program Day 1, New York, (US) 26th October 1982

Shri Mataji: (unclear)

Yogi: I said that if you are a scientist, you know that …

Shri Mataji: Scientific?

Yogi: Yes, a scientific introduction. If you are a scientist, you know that there is something that precedes the creation of the universe. What is this thing we must seek?

Shri Mataji: America is a country which has attracted many people to come down to talk about Spirit, about God, about new consciousness, new awareness, and all those things that you have heard about. I’m sure you must be fed up with that. 

Everybody has been talking so much that you have been targeted, somehow I feel, since long of the speech-making of all these great people who try to bring you to something very dynamic, something great. And I felt that I should give you some pause before I start telling you about it. That you cannot talk about it. You cannot brainwash people. It’s not a mental projection by which you can achieve God. 

This is a very simple thing we have to understand. That if anything has to happen to us, as all of them have been talking and me too, it should be something that is living. It has to be a living process. Evolution has been a living process. It’s not a dead process of thinking. This is very difficult for human beings to understand that we became human beings from a monkey stage or from an amoeba stage without thinking about it or planning about it. We just became. And that becoming was spontaneous; was the living thing. Once we understand this simple thing, then the whole thing becomes very simple because all the living things that happened are extremely simple to look at they may not be. But to look at that extremely simple this.  This understanding has to come to us.

For example, if you want to sprout a seed, what do you do? You just put it in the Mother Earth and it sprouts. The scientists only know this: that if you take a seed and put it in  Mother Earth, then it sprouts. That’s the knowledge they have, but it’s much more. Can we do it? Is the Mother Earth can do it. Do we have the capacity of the Mother Earth? How does she do it? And how is it that a little, small little seed has all the maps of all the trees it is going to be? Thus scientists cannot answer any one of these questions because this is not the knowledge. This is what is apparent. Is there. There’s nothing that is not there that they can tell you. So, these great gurus have come on this earth to tell you about something great and unknown you know, something from the heavens, and you people, who are so scientific-minded, got very much impressed. Supposing they were naive, uneducated, and couldn’t speak your language, then they were the best because you thought it was an antidote to your mad thinking.

Then there’s some who came and give you some sort of a brainwashing you thought this was the path.  But there must be something about you, the Americans, the way these people came to you there must be some reason. The reason is that they knew there were real seekers in this country who arejust waiting to get to reality. They were aware of it and that’s how they came over to this country.  From India, America is the furthest end I tell you. If you travel by ship it takes a month, it takes at least 30 days or 28 days something like that. Minimum of minimum. And sometimes it can be months.

So, why is it of all the things they came to America was the reason that they knew there are seekers and they may be able to sell their knowledge in this rich country. This was the great attraction that they had. And still, Americans never realized why these people were coming to us and telling us about these things, emptying our pockets, filling up their own bank balances. Because you are scientific minded and here it is that you feel that if it is spiritual, science fades.  And you never used your brains to reach any logical conclusion what is to be expected as a seeking and as the goal of the seeking.

Logically we must reach the point where you should know what you have to seek and who can guide you. Without that, headlong you went into it. I know the frustrations and the disappointments. Now logically let us come to the point. Firstand foremost thing, as I told you,  that if it is an evolutionary process we are awaiting then it has to be spontaneous, it has to be a living process, by some living force. This is the first conclusion we all should reach before giving up all scientific attitude. Second conclusion we should come to, that the living process cannot be achieved through human effort. Which is difficult to accept but it’s a fact. So there has to be some supreme power, you may call it a Divine power, God’s power to do it. This is the second conclusion you must reach if you are honest about it, you must accept it that yes, living processes are done by living power.  We cannot transform one flower into fruit, let’s accept that. Billions and billions of them are every moment transformed. Who does that? Is there any power beyond that does it? That’s the power we have to seek. Third conclusion should be, we should seek that power which is doing the living work. Fourth conclusion should be that evolutionary process if it is to happen to us you cannot pay for it either. You cannot pay for it. That’s one thing one must know that you cannot pay for your evolution. Try to pay any amount to a monkey. Can he become a human being? Money-oriented people cannot understand this. They cannot.

But simple Indians will know. They will reject an idea that they have to pay for their Self-Realization. Impossible how can you pay for it? These must be parasites who have come here to take your money and live on that. This is a sign of a parasite who earns money and lives on other people’s money. I call it opium. They are dealing in opium these days. You cannot pay for it. And you cannot take money for it. It’s insulting. Actually I came in 1973, in this country that time you were much more affluent I think and much more money orientated and the head was swollen like this with your money, you wouldn’t listen to me, that time you wouldn’t listen to me. I can tell you this much. Of course I had halls full and all that but they gave me a very wise advice, that mother unless and until you charge Americans they are not going to look at you. I said thank you very much. Those who can pay for it cannot get it.

And this they could not understand. I had such funny experiences that I was amazed that people are so naive.

They do not know and what are they going to go in for. They are so naive about the knowledge, the real knowledge, the knowledge of the roots. So this is the conclusion one has to reach.

Now there are people who must have already paid to so many. I mean, mostly I get people who are bankrupt out of these people. Doesn’t matter. Forget it. Don’t condemn yourself for that. Or don’t reject me for that. Is all right nobody likes to feel that we have been befooled. No, you are naive and they are too cunning.

If somebody says something, must you believe that person. Like somebody told me that he claims to be Christ. I said all right ask him to walk on the water, finished. Hardly two minutes will take to find out whether he is Christ or not. Then there’s another one who says that you can fly. He’s taking 6000 rupees to make you fly. Now think of it. And it is you who have been paying this man for flying. Ask him to fly himself once. Why not put him on the leaning tower of Pisa, what is [UNCLEAR]better use it. Put him down there and let’s see how far he can go. At least that will end another nonsense. It’s a serious matter also to understand that you are helping satanic people with your money. Is this money earned by bad means that it should go to such horrible things? Money itself has some auspiciousness about it.

You have made all these satanic people prosper to this extent that some of them have got so much money that (it is), it can be used for the development of the whole third world. I understand that you people are very sensitive but what about sensitivity to reality? So the last and the top most logical conclusion should be that we have to be honest to ourselves till we have found out the reality, we are not going to believe into anyone. If it is there it should be evident. Some of them (have going through) are going through a phenomena called as punishment of sharpish [UNCLEAR text].I don’t know if you know that but the punishment of Sharpish says that of this fellow Sharpish tried to cheat people and he went and cheated also the king. And he said I’m a big architect and I will build a big and very big palace for you. And the king poor thing that time he believed in him and gave him a lot of money he said all rightyou please go and build the palace for me.

After a year or so when he went to the site, Sharpish said yes see I made the great  palace for you. See here is your court and here you are going to sit.

There was nothing. It was all wilderness. You are going to sit on this throne and here people are going to come and bow to it so you should see how I have done the whole job. And the king started thinking am I mad or this fellow is mad. Immediately he realized this was the trick. He said very good, you have done a very good job, that’s the best job that anybody can do but I must give you a present. Very instant present because I can’t wait any longer, I must give you a present. He said I would request you to come and sit on this throne. So very nicely Mr. Sharpish walked up to the throne and so-called throne and sat down.

He said now keep sitting there. He took the pose as if he was sitting. And imagine a person made to sit like that.  This is called as the punishment of Sharpish. And that is the punishment people are going into, they are hanging in the air, they don’t know what to do.

Once you have paid for even the worst film, you want to go through it because you have paid for it. And that’s what they are doing, we have paid for it better go through it. This is done under a cover and people very little know they are going towards hell. Towards diseases which are incurable. Towards horrible experiences that they are going to have. They are going to lose all their personality, their families, anything that is normal, they are not going to have. They are going to become abnormal people ending into lunatic asylum, maybe if not in the hell.

It is sad, it’s very sad that great saints should be born in this country and should be lured by people that are telling them all falsehood. That they should not have sensitivity to reality, it’s a very sad thing. This attack started  long time back and has been again and again, waves after waves have been coming to this country. This country plays a very important role in the spiritual evolution of man as a whole. Nobody has told you what you are, where you stand in the whole cosmos and what is your position in this cosmos and what role you have to play because they never knew about it perhaps or perhaps they never wanted you to know about it. So when I come now, what I find.

The people who are to be adorned as saints, to be invited in the kingdom of God are in the wretchedest conditions. They are so conditioned some of them are that you cannot talk to them, if they are not conditioned they are in such a miserable state that you cannot do anything about them.

And even if they want to listen to you it’s difficult to give them Realization. This is actually is the situation believe me.

But I have a duty a duty towards the seekers and the duty is first of all to tell you that Spirit is within you.

Whatever you might have done whatever mistakes you might have committed, the Spirit exists unharmed. The only thing that has been harmed is your central path of ascent. That has to be corrected. That must be treated with great care and if somehow or another you can put it in a condition that is sufficient to raise the Kundalini you can manage the show.

So if it is a living process what should happen to you? Also, that should be clear-cut before us. What should happen to us when we are seeking and what should we achieve? What has happened to us in evolution? What is the difference between us and animals? In general, it is one that is our awareness is very different from theirs, of a higher awareness, we have a subtler awareness. Like we have awareness of the filth, the dirt, the color, animals don’t have, there are many other things but for example, I am saying. So something has to happen in your awareness. Your awareness has to become something else and what should it be?

Should it be that you suddenly start jumping? In my program we had some people once. Very embarrassing. But they suddenly started jumping towards me. I said, “What’s the problem?” They had been to some guru who taught them how to jump

and one of them would not sit on the ground. I said why don’t you sit down.

It would be a nice idea to sit on the ground.

He said no because then I start jumping like a frog. I said jumping like a frog. Why?

My guru told me that my Kundalini is awakened. I said Really? What makes you think that your Kundalini is awakened? Because I jump like a frog. I said now after evolution are you going to become a frog or an earthworm? What are you going to become? Can you imagine this is very prevalent and absolutely accepted that you become an abnormal person if you have to get Realization. You have to be absolutely normal to be a realized soul. Such people lead absolutely normal lives if you see them. Take great people like Kabira, take great people like Nanaka, Christ, Rama, Krishna, any one of them they were absolutely normal people. There’s one guru who worships his wife like a mother. It’s absurd, it’s untraditional. It’s never done in the whole history of humankind, leave alone in India. All sorts of funny things they are doing, standing on their heads. Are we now going to walk on our heads? We must know that we have to be first normal people. And the ascent if it has to be, it has to be in our awareness, within ourselves not outside we are not going to grow now horns. This is a simple thing which people cannot understand and they start doing all kinds of abnormal things. This is not reasoning. This is not logic. So we come to a point where we think of our awareness. What should happen to our awareness?  

That you become the master. You become the master of your awareness. I’ll give an example how you will know what is a master is. Say there’s a car it has got an accelerator and a break so when you are trying to learn driving, first you try the accelerator and then the break and then this and make all mistakes, I don’t know how many people you kill and hurt yourself after breaking ten cars or maybe twenty cars, you ultimately become a driver. All rightdoesn’t matter. Makes no difference but you are a driver now. So, you start driving. You are a driver you get a certificate as a driver with all the errors you have committed, doesn’t matter. But still, you are not the master. The master is sitting behind. He’s still watching you. He’s still looking at you. When you become the Spirit you become the master. That means you start watching yourself and the break and the accelerator and the car. You are no more involved into it. You are a witness. But you know everything that you are doing. Suddenly you start jumping, and you say I have no control over it. You have complete control, to begin with as a driver only you should have. But as a master, you should even control the driver within. So in your awareness, you must have complete control over yourself. Whatever is uncontrolled is funny. Could be that you are playing into the hands of something else. To understand this on Kundalini, I would like to tell you about the awareness of human beings. Now as far as I’m concerned, I would request you that you should not accept Me blindfolded. Blind people are no good for something that we are going to do. But you should not also be a closed people or should not have barriers against me. Like scientists, they put up a hypothesis. Take it as a hypothesis with an open mind and once it is proved then you must accept it. With that understanding let us move now to see what I have to say about our awareness. 

This is the picture of the tree of life within us. On the left-hand side the blue line you see is the line that’s in the Sanskrit language is called as Ida nadi, is the subtle channel of our desire. The power of desire flows through it. On the right-hand side we have another channel, is the channel of action, the power of action flows through it.

These two left and right side channels within us the subtle channels manifest outside in the gross as the left and right sympathetic nervous system. In the center that you see are the seven subtle centers which give rise or manifest in the gross. These are the subtle centers in the gross to the plexuses of which we know of in the medical science. Now the central path as you can see has a gap in between and the development of our parasympathetic nervous system is the achievement of our evolution. Actually whatever is in the central nervous system is reflecting whatever we have achieved in our ascent. Whatever is not in the central nervous system is not there. But could be there are subtler sensitivities which are not yet manifested so we should keep ourselves open to it. Now the psychological side of it, or the deeper side of it, on the left-hand side, the left-hand side one is the psyche which Mr. Freud talked of, he was another half-baked attacker because he just saw you as a sex point. Imagine he didn’t have eyes even to see human beings as they are. He could not think they were sublime people, they were not just sex points, even animals are not, how can human beings be. So he reduced you to sex points and people accepted him. When it’s surprising how you can accept a person like Freud blindfolded he himself was a horrible person. He had bad relations with his own mother the most abnormal thing to do. I mean in India nobody can think of such a thing. Where there are normal people I think, they are not so much mentally equipped, [UNCLEAR]such unusual things like having bad relations with the mother (laughs). This is only a special quality, of mentally very clever people to do such smart things. Poor simple Indians can’t think of such nonsense as that. And this is what this person talked of because he had that. Generalized. Most of the psychologists with all due respect to our person who introduced you, you see he is a psychiatrist I’m sorry, but most of them deal with abnormal cases and pathological cases and generalize it. Can you imagine? How can you generalize a pathological case? That’s not a general thing. Moreover,, they are attacked by the patients who come to them and they become like that. This fellows suffered with cancer, died with cancer but he is the leader of so many people. He has sophisticated ways. I don’t know what sophisticated ways of bathrooms he has got. This is the level we came to, to such ridiculous (method) ways by the guidance of this great man who came on this earth. Thank God I went to Austria and when I talked against him and they were all very happy about it because they thought it was a blot on their name that he worked in Austria. So this is what it is the psyche, which of course his knowledge I’ve told you already, he only knew about one center down below there. So this psyche of yours actually works out all your conditioning and all your past.  All your subconscious. Beyond this is the collective subconscious. 

First the present subconscious, then the subconscious, and then the collective subconscious which means all that is dead resides in that part. On the right-hand side, is the power of action which we use for physical and mental efforts. Caters for our future you see for the people who are futuristic you see, they are never in the present they are futuristic to such an extent I met somebody who was sick. He had forgotten his name. He had forgotten his father’s name. But when he said he had forgotten his wife’s name his wife started crying. She couldn’t believe it. She said I don’t know even that. So the futuristic people who die are in the collective supra-conscious beyond that ambitious, the futuristic the planning type. For example, Hitler must be somewhere there. So this is the other side we have. Then down below we can say is hell and on top of our head here, is the super consciousness which we have to achieve where you become the master. With LSD people see colors, they can see auras. I mean so many people who take LSD have never seen me they always see light. Imagine they can never see my body they only see the light. They can’t see in the present. They see something that is in the future. All such experiences take place when you cross this limit and go to the supra-conscious area. Like seeing the light, seeing the cross, like seeing some sort of a aura or other things means these are the causal of the elements. To see the causal of the elements is the supra-conscious entry. Then the other side is as I told you, caters for your past, is your emotional side, and these people see ghosts, the dead, they are the ones who do parapsychology, ESP, ESD, all kinds of things which we accept as scientific. These are all done through the possession of dead spirits. Cancer is caused by the left side activity of people in the sense that the left side triggers it. Recently I saw a very wonderful programme of BBC. I being a normal person though I’m supposed to be a saint, I see all BBC programmes (laughs), and [UNCLEAR text] such which are interesting. In that they showed some doctors that the cancer, though the situation for cancer is created by over activity of a person maybe, but it is triggered by the attack by some proteins which they call as protein 58, protein 52. Of course, poor doctors don’t know what it is so they call it protein 58, protein 52. Whatever you may call them they are nothing but spirits, dead spirits, and they trigger the happening of cancer. Myelitisand all such diseases which cannot be cured by doctors because they just deal with the right side with the physical side of man, they cannot cure it. They may have to cut your nose or cut this part and cut that part. That’s how they think they are curing cancer by cutting you part by part. But the problem is that your attention has gone onto the left side left-hand side too much and it has been triggered by these attacks. Be careful about this parapsychology I tell you. It’s most surprising that these parapsychologists four of them, not parapsychologists I should say but must have something to do with them, came to India to see me and asked me to help them how to fly. Just imagine. I said who told you that I teach all this nonsense to people to fly. You’re not going to become birds now. No, they said we want to remove our body from this and go to the moon and go everywhere. But I said why do you want to do it? He said because Russians are doing it. In competition with them, you see. They are going into the dead why not we go. I said Russians are doing it. Are you sure? He said yes. I said but I warn you that if you do all this you will be possessed and you will lose all your so-called freedom. They said it doesn’t matter but we want to do it, despite that. And they were scientists and something big in the government, I don’t that time it was something like 1970 I’m telling you about. But I said why? What is the need? You want to be enslaved? Yes, we want to do it. But then I asked one question who told you to come to me for this? He said there’s one fellow called Patanjali who is a journalist who told me. I said this Patanjali has told you I’m surprised because he is the one of whom I have cured of this trouble and he is telling you to take this trouble onto you. I can cure you, I cannot put the disease into you. This is the situation of the people who are so ego orientated that they do not want to go to hell even if they want to satisfy their ego. Now what is happening to Russians? Parapsychology will finish them but what about Americans? That may also effectyou. First thing you’ll get is cancer, multiple sclerosis all such diseases you’ll get which are caused by the triggering, by the proteins which are named as protein 58 and 52 and 56. That’s all they’ve found out but I know at least 1000’s of them. As it is, at least Russians don’t have these horrible satanic gurus there. Thank God for that, at least they will be saved. As it is you are attacked. On top of that you have got scientists dealing with parapsychology. They don’t know why it happens how it happens, if you don’t know how it happens better not do it. That’s a simple way of doing it. Whatever is unknown is not Divine. We can’t hear with this ear every frequency of the sound do we? You know that. Whatever is needed we know we hear it. Whatever is not needed we don’t hear it. So whatever is unknown if that happens to you, why must you accept it blindfolded without finding it what it is.

Even in medical science, they use this for curing people. And curing has become sort of a big problem with human beings perphaps, what do you do by curing you just cure the physical body, that’s all. But you are not only the physical body, you are also the mental body and the emotional body, and the spiritual being. I get wrestlers coming to me saying Mother give me peace. They have such healthy bodies that I mean if they slap someone the person will never get up. But they have no peace. They have no joy. They have no Spirit.

So the physical being if it is alright that’s not the end of it if you’re emotionally also sort of “Oh I’m in love with somebody” all sort of these romantic ideas that people have, of course, within one month they go for a divorce case. All these great romantic ideas that we work out, also Friedan [UNCLEAR text]sophisticated methods of emotionally indulgences, all they end up into another type of calamities, which we call as lunasee . There also what happens is when we start doing too much of it, we enter into that area which is called as the collective subconscious. There are so many ways by which you can go to that area called as  collective subconscious. In the collective subconscious, there’s lots of busybodies just waiting to take over from you. Like a person praying “Oh god, when will I see you? What should I do?” They weep and cry and this and that. There’s no connection. For example, there is no connection on the telephone, and you go on shouting “Oh god, when will I meet you”. You will never meet, no question. The telephone will go out of order no doubt. Better get connected,  is a practical thing to understand that are you connected with yourself. 

Like many politicians stand up and say “I believe” I say which part of you is believing? You believe into something, means what? What are you doing to believe? Is that your ego? Or your superego? Which you can see as a byproduct of these two: one the superego on the left, and the the ego on the right moves crosses itself and forms these two balloons which cover our head and once it is classified, we develop this “I”-ness. You become Mr. X, Mr. Y. This “I”-ness is specially given to us. Like an egg, we become. And this egg has to become the bird. In Sanskrit language, a realized soul is called as “Bejaha” twice-born. And also a bird is called as “Dweeja”. Like a bird which is like an egg and it becomes like a bird in the same way a realized soul is like an egg and becomes a bird, a free person. When this happens then you’re transformed into this new awareness of your Spirit. And the Spirit within you, what does it do? What is it?

It is the collective being that is residing in your heart. You become the collective being. It’s no brainwashing, you become. That means you start feeling others within yourself. Mohammad Saheb has clearly said “at the time of resurrection, your hands will speak” but Muslims never talk of resurrection time, they talk of Doom. He’s talked more of resurrection, they’ll talk only of Doom. Your hand will speak. Everybody has indicated to this, this happening. Thousands of years back, a very, I should say the Apostles [UNCLEAR text]we can say the really the man who started astrology Dhruv wrote a book called Nadigranth which is been translated and now being sort of revised, about three hundred years back, clearly said what will happen to people when they will come to this time, even this three hundred-year-old book, which has depicted in modern terminology said that 1970 this work will start where people will start getting their transformation through Kundalini awakening. And that is what we have to expect to happen to us that we become again I say, become the collective being. Yung has said it, not before he was realized, he got his Realization, he talked of it. That people have to become, have to become collective beings. Now, becoming is very different from the rest of it. Like, you cannot pay for it, as I said it, you cannot be a member I am a collective being. Or I have also known people who certify themselves, “I’m twice born”. I said how? I face them, you know? Five of them attacked Me once in Australia. We are all twice-born. I said all rightsit down, sit down. What is the meaning of twice-born? What should happen?

First of all you become, you become the collective being. You should be able to tell what’s wrong with you. First of all, if there is no light, there is no light outside. What centers are catching? You should be able to tell what centers are catching in another person just on the hand. Even small children who are born realized there are many in America who are born realized. In the house where I’m living, there are four children. All of them are one better than the other. Great people are born, great saints are taking birth. They all know about kundalini and they talk in such a manner that people should listen to them before going to these false gurus. They said how can you have a course in Kundalini Awakening.  They said how can you pay for it?  These little children hardly of any age they know better, they have better wisdom about it. 

So you become the collective being. That means your awareness, that means your conscious mind,that means your central nervous system starts feeling the existence of the spirit within you as you can feel this you can feel the all-pervading power of God which is called as the breeze of the holy ghost, as the Chaitanya Lahari is called as Ruh. It has many names in all the scriptures which we have forgotten. And this is what should happen to you, that you should become a collective being. Once this happens, as the ships are fourth hand or fifth hand my husband has to deal with ships very much, and when the French I gave them the Realization they used to appear every week he asked them what’s the matter she has given you already Realization what are you doing here? They said sir, if you know of fifth hand ships what do you do? He said we scrap them [laugh] he said we don’t want to be scrapped by Mother so we have to come for repairs again and again. That’s what it is, that it doesn’t stay there it falls off. I have seen the Kundalini has suffered so much by your ego probing some of the people have the Kundalini which is so wounded, which is full of condition that one can only pity it. I mean you can’t just imagine what kind of Kundalini people have, it just tosses its head on all the sights. Can’t come up and even by force you raise it just falls down, helplessly. She is your Mother, not the mother that the Freud talked of but the Mother who is a virgin, who is chastity is the most important part of you have got and the center down below is the center where the deity resides of innocence of your innocence whatever is remaining there is there. Which is looking after the chastity of this Kundalini your Mother.

Anybody who tells you that through sex you can go to God, believe him not. Sex doesn’t play a part in evolution anywhere any scientist can tell you that. Is the seeking. The seeking starts in the stomach first, you seek food then when you become human beings you start seeking power, money, love ultimately God. It’s through seeking that you raise and not through sex. Because the centre which is very important of course in the human beings is the center of innocence is placed below the Kundalini who guards the chastity of the Mother that resides there. How can you believe such a thing when you have known a person like Christ? Who said that it is said that thou shall not commit adultery, I say thou shall not have adulterous eyes.

Purity of that level because He himself resides higher there at this point. He’s the one who resided that at that point first of all and now when he comes on this earth He resides at that point, where the optic chiasma is. He controls the pituitary and the pineal which ultimately controls the ego and superego. When the Kundalini rises and she awakens this centrewhich is the most important centreI would say, then it sucks in the ego and the superego and breaks the shell here and you start feeling the cool breeze coming out of your head. This you can’t do this is the living process that you can’t do. And you get your Realization. Realization which is a true Realization, a true baptism it is not like somebody coming and all rightI baptized you putting some water over your head and you believe oh I’m baptized. It’s a true happening, it’s a living happening that takes place within you and that once happens, then only you are just realized. But we don’t call such a person a Sahaja Yogi, because you must know all about it.

Of course free of cost. You can’t pay for it. Everything you must know about it fully. All the technique yoga also means kaushalyam [UNCLEAR text] the technique of the divine laws. You must know all about the divine laws and you should be able to raise the Kundalini. You should be able to give Realization, it is you whose powers are important, it makes no difference to Me. 

If I say “I’m a guru, I’m such and such”, so what? Unless and until you get your powers what’s the use of all this? You have to get your powers and that is what is the criteria of Sahaja Yoga. 

This should happen to all of you today. It can happen because I know you are seekers of very great quality. But one thing which is a barrier in the West, which might have come from these great psychologists I think the barrier is, that you feel guilty. Please don’t feel guilty. They will feel guilty for anything in the West. While Indians even if they’ve looted you, they will not feel. They’re like hippopotamus. They’ll take away all your money, make a fool out of you, and they are least ashamed of themselves. It takes nothing for an Indian to tell lies. Take it from me. I’m also an Indian, so be careful [laughter]. Unless and until our politicians tell one thousand lies, they are not qualified to be politicians. Every day. So we are experts in all that, as we have great saints and great people, we have the other extremes also. All the great devils were born in that country and the greatest saints and the greatest pir’s [UNCLEAR text]. The greatest people of the world were born in that country. It always happens in a country where there are great saints, the devils also get their birth. But they all had to escape to come here. And the tragedy is that they are bringing all inauspiciousness to your country and you are in for trouble. I must say you are in for trouble. Nature is going to take the respite. 

Be careful about these people, your government should understand something about these people, how inauspicious they are, what kind of devils they were, and what they’re capable of.  Because if the attention of God recedes from this country, God save you. You are more dangerously placed than Russia is. I’m not afraid of atomic bombs. That may never function. But these things will work out horrible things for you here. So be careful that too subtle for your understanding because you do not have the knowledge of the roots actually, you’re broken from your roots by various things like psychologists, like unholy trinities who came in your music, in your architecture, in everything. They somehow or other attacked you  they removed you from the roots which sustain you. And now once you are removed from there, they are going to destroy you. So be careful about it. You have to know about your roots with full acidity[UNCLEAR text] you must learn about.This knowledge is not possible before Realization, I’m sorry to say. This whatever I have talked to you is just talk. Unless and until you are realized, you cannot enter into your roots to find out what you are. So all this talk will remain talk of very superficial talk, you must all get Realization, that’s a very important thing. First the connection must be established. I wish I could do it without any lectures, because I’ve been lecturing and lecturing, but you are so much used to it, that you won’t take to Realization unless and until I talk. That’s why I have to talk out of compulsion of your habits. But that as of no use, you have to get your Realization, you have to become that, and you have to feel yourself, and you have to know that you are the Spirit. You are sat chit ananda. You are the truth. You are the attention that is enlightened. You are the joy. This you have to get within you. It has to happen in your awareness. 

May God bless you all. 

I would like to have questions from you but relevant now, don’t ask me about gurus. Because you see I don’t mind, I’m not afraid of them at all. I can tell you about all of them, who they were in their previous lives. I told them in 1970s, see and everyone got a fright, they said they will come with a pistol to kill me. And I said, let them try. They never filed any suit against me. I openly told them what kind of devils they have been. Nobody. So, that’s not the point. But, why waste energy on them? Better ask something about Self-Realization, about something that is concrete. It is a waste of time to talk about these nonsensical things. 


Seeker: Last time I came to see you at the other Church, you gave a demonstration of guess Sahaja Yoga, in which I felt a coolness.

Shri Mataji: You felt?

Seeker: On my hands

Shri Mataji: Yes

Seeker: Thought you’d do the same thing this evening. 

Shri Mataji: You want it. All right, I’ll do it for all of them. That’s good. Yes, he felt it. It’s good, it is a certificate. It’s a good thing. Yes. 

Seeker: How does one take Realization if it comes, You said it comes spontaneously, and without any effort. 

Shri Mataji: Without any effort. It’s true. But there is no word, you see so we say give. But actually, it is not given, it just happens. Or you can say that, it is like. You have to just put your hand towards me like this and it happens, it’s absolutely effortless. Only thing you have to little bit unwind yourself with your effort. Little bitnot much. Little bit. And then it works out. It’s very simple. They say in India, in the villages, thousands of people get like that. I assure you it should happen in this country also. If we have some number of people Realized, then it will happen in this country also, it will click with thousands. That’s 

Seeker: I mean I still don’t understand how?

Shri Mataji: NO, I will tell you what’s to be done. All right? We will keep it, for the procedure, I’ll tell you it’s very simple. Nothing has to be done. I’ll never ask you to stand on your heads. 


Shri Mataji: So, you didn’t go? [to some seeker]

Seeker: No

Shri Mataji: Good, I’m happy. Thank you, how are you now?All right? 

May God bless you. 

Any other questions, please? Is there any question? No? Good. 

Seeker: Do you have any publications of your own?

Shri Mataji: Yes, we have my child. We have!

Seeker: You have with you?

Shri Mataji: Yes, but you see. We don’t give it to people who haven’t got Realization. I’m sorry. Because once you give them, they again start reading[Unclear text] it. You see that’s why it is for you to know about the divine laws. But unless and until you are Realized you cannot understand. So no use telling people about it. You see, we don’t give it to people who are not Realized. We have publications, no doubt.

Seeker: I meant your own, your own writings. We have books published with your own writings.

Shri Mataji: Is it? Which one is that? It’s a news.

Seeker: We have a book your own book, which is published in your,in your writings

Shri Mataji: Is there?

[Audience Laughter].

Seeker: I am asking

[Audience Laughter]

Shri Mataji: What is it?

Yogi: She wants to know Mother, if You have published a book that you…

Shri Mataji: No,  no,  no, not me,  not me. That’s true. Oh I see, I am sorry. 

Seeker: It is easier for me to read and listen.

Shri Mataji: Yes, but even easier to get a Realization. 


Shri Mataji: For you, especially, I say. It would be easier to get Realization. All right. The book is, I’ve never written a book so far, I will write, I hope so. I tried to write something, and they said it’s all going over our heads. You see, I’m so naive, I don’t really know how to write very well, very flower English. I mean this is the first time in my lives I’ve learnt an English language little bit. Still they say it goes over our heads. So I said now wait till their heads grow a little more. 


Seeker: I have been struggling expressing myself in painting. And I am taking a course at a painting school.

Shri Mataji: Course of?

Seeker: A drawing and painting.

Shri Mataji: Yeah

Seeker: In school. Ok. And I said ]in class, everybody is trying to do something that they teach and there are two kinds of students, one that will try to go up by themselves and almost fight the other group. You know, I’m one of them. That  I’m tempting[UNCLEAR text] to get the power that I feel that I can’t, doesn’t seem to go through and in the actualization.

Shri Mataji: See, before Realization, we live in the world of relativity, whether we try to express it’s individually or collectively or in any way we live in the world of relativity. Say the paintings are for example, you won’t be able to say who is the person who is a realized soul, who has done this particular painting. You cannot say. And when we have abstract and also in realistic or say impressionistic, in any forms we have people who have been realized souls, and who have painted. Not only that, but we also have in music and in all kinds of arts. We have two types of people: one who were realized souls and one who were not. Of course, the fake you forget. For example, I’ll say that Michelangelo, was a realized soul. Now if I say that, what should happen? If you place your hands towards his paintings you will get the vibrations. That’s what this is keeping the Vatican aloft. Otherwise, there’s every reason for the Vatican to fall down. 


Is the blessings of Michelangelo, like Mozart, He was a realized soul. So there are realized souls, and there are unrealized souls. Now about this, how will you decide unless until you have got Realization? The realized soul, if you put the hand towards a person, whether he was realized or not, you start feeling the cool breeze. Even if the person is dead, even if the person is not there, you can feel it. Once we felt the vibrations of Nixon, long time back, and one of the Sahaja Yogis said he’s in trouble. I said really. See the vibrations. And he was. Later on. So the diagnosis of a person comes to you, even when he’s living or not living, makes no difference. So first you must get your Realization. Then, you go to the absolute, then there is no relative world. Even in politics, you’ll be amazed. Like, we can say all the politics that has come like communism, or democracy, or anything, all these have come as different things, we see they’re opposites, but they’re not. See now, I will say I’m the greatest capitalist ever born. Because I have all the powers within myself. All right? But I’m the greatest communist also because I can’t live with them. I have to share. Whole politics takes a new turn after Realization. You have to share it. If you don’t share it, you can’t enjoy your Realization. It’s not individualistic. So the accent is individualistic. But giving is collective. So that’s how your politics, which you look so absurd, becomes reality. Because there is no life in it, there’s no Spirit in all this politics, there’s no Spirit. Once the Spirit comes in, everything looks the same. There’s no difference at all. For all practical purposes, I must be an insane woman, because I have a very good family, and a very good husband, and grandchildren, and we live very luxuriously. And, I mean, for all practical purposes, I should not be here. Doing this work, traveling like mad. But I can’t enjoy any luxuries, anything, I have to give. 


Seeker: I have a question[Unclear]

Shri Mataji: I can’t follow her

Seeker: Can you hear me?

Shri Mataji: No, Can you speak loudly? Can you come here? And just tell me. Uh

Yogi: Just speak loudly.

Seeker: All right, I thought I spoke too loud.

Shri Mataji: You speak loudly, it’s good

Seeker: My question is, in Realization, or in various levels of Realizations if there are  such could be, could one be so or does one become so sensitive to the consciousness of others, other beings of all kinds that become so sensitive that it could become a problem? Understand?

Shri Mataji: Yes, I understand. It can become a problem if you are in it, but you are out of it. You see if you are out of the crowd you can see the crowd. Any amount of crowd any amount of or anything you can see if you are a witness. Isn’t it? So the state you achieve is that of a witness it can’t touch you. But you see it.

Seeker: For instance, you would know all the murders that are being planned, you know

Shri Mataji: No, no that may not. But what you would know is not these things. What you would know that how far is the other seeker is and how to give him Realization. Murders and all these problems are to be solved from within not without. All these problems are there because of the problems within. If the within is cleared out, then the without problems get solved. Now another thing as your question is that supposing I can feel this gentleman, and this lady, and it can become a problem? No, I become like a witness. I see the problem of this gentleman and also I know how to cure that problem or to solve that problem, I can do it without getting involved into it at all. So there is no problem. For a person who is just a witness, what is the problem?All right? May God bless you.

Seeker: Would you claim that all the gurus that come to the United States are felonies?

Shri Mataji: I wouldn’t say all because I have sent one fellow, who is the real one, he ran away within three days. So I must give do respect to him isin’t, he was one of them. He stayed in New York for three days and he ran away and said Mother, whatever you may do for twelve years, I’m not going to get out of my place. He just refused to come in. So I wouldn’t say all but most of them. And now don’t ask again names.

Seeker: There are gurus that  from let’s say organizations or institutes and really they do not  the money that come in don’t have the money but hey give it to you know the betterment of the institute or the

Shri Mataji: You see the thing is in spiritual life there is no interest in money. Like taking money from someone and giving to someone and agencies like this is not the work of a spiritual person. Even the so-called missionary work is not the work of a spiritual person. For example, for Me,if you are part and parcel of Me, if I’m curing you I’m curing Myself. There’s not the other. If there is no feeling of the other, then what is the social work you are doing. It’s really social work. It’s nothing to do with God. Those who combined social work with God are very wrong. Like missionaries you see, they thought we are doing missionary work. This is what they are just doctor’s or there are doing social works. These are ills that they are brought in by human beings. These are your problems. You solve them. God has never done these, why bring God in between you see God’s work is different. God’s work is living work by which you get your Realization. By which you of course cure others no doubt automatically. You just don’t give any medicines or anything, you just touch a person, the person canbe cured. Yes.

Seeker: I confirm from  what you are saying that any person such as yourself or 

Shri Mataji: As such as yourself too [uh]

Seeker: Ok, such as yourself and any honest guru’s that are maybe, would be able to give freely of their knowledge?

Shri Mataji: Of course! Did you know[unclear]

Seeker: Because they, because they have the awareness with all, to go around the world, as you are doing.

Shri Mataji: Yeah. 

Seeker: And without it they could not do that

Shri Mataji: Who couldn’t do that?

Yogi: He means the money. He is saying you have to have the money, then to be a proper guru..

Shri Mataji: That’s all right, I mean you pay supposing, supposing you say, you want to pay for My traveling, My husband is a generous person. But that doesn’t matter. Supposing if he could not able to pay for Me and I have to travel alright you pay to the travel agency, not to Me do you? That’s for traveling. Not for Realization, not for any course. Now make a difference between the two. That’s a difference, if you have to pay at all to a person who is that much handicapped about money all right, you pay to that person is good because after all you must pay for your a person who is coming to give Realization is all right. But you don’t pay for the maintenance of that person. But here no question of maintenance. They have got huge big aeroplanes and runaways and they have got what you call one gentleman has got already 59 Rolls Royce, Royce’s, one 58 he had and he wrote that if you give him the 59, then only I come to UK and poor people starved themselves to give him the 59 and so he was there. He is still 14 yrs I think. So this is not. You can’t maintain that person. Also if there is a guru who is old and who is your father, you can give him food at the most. At the most he will take food from you when he lives there. But he can’t thrive on you. That’s not the style and pattern. That’s not the tradition at all. Of Course, I mean you would not like, supposing My husband gives Me up, then you look after Me isn’it? That’s different. That’s after love not that you pay for My diamonds and for Rolls Royces. Yeah.

Seeker:  I mean to be important is your Husband realized?

Shri Mataji: That’s a different personal question. All right!

He is better, he is not in the way. Because you will say We have floated an enterprise. Better keep him out and all My family.

Seeker: Would you say something overcoming hidden costs in past lives

Shri Mataji: What life? Last life?

Seeker: In past lives. How to overcome the obstacles created by past lives?

Shri Mataji: You see once Kundalini rises, you go above that, you see so all these individual problems get solved. It’s like you are in the water first, you are afraid of all the waves, all kinds of waves that come on you. But if you can somehow or other get into the boat, you enjoy the waves. It’s like that. That’s how you get out of it. Yes! Please.

Seeker: Once you experience Realization, how does one maintain it or does maintain it?

Shri Mataji: That’s the question. It’s true, it’s important. And for that luckily we have people here. We have sent somebody from London. Imagine now you are importing people from London again. But now I would like to import some Americans to help the English there. We have sent some people, they have started a center here. We have a center. And you will be amazed that one person who came here cured a leukemia patient  in one of your hospitals who was just declared to be died within eight days time. Certified. And this person has gone back to India. So we have a center here and we have some people who are very great Sahaja Yogis luckily. They will help you and you can become very great Sahaja Yogis yourself. No problem. All right.

Seeker: But can you do it on your own?

Shri Mataji: Yourself?

Seeker: Yes.

Shri Mataji: It is a collective happening. You have to come together. It’s a collective happening. You just. It’s not individualistic again I said it. You have to come together, you have to meet. If you don’t meet, then it doesn’t grow so much. You see it is not for individual gain, you see God has commonsense one must understand. He is not devoid of common sense. The lights which are not going to work out, to give lights why should he repair? Will you do that? Will you waste your energy on a light which is not going to give the light? Will you do that? And He is the source of all the commonsense, why will he do it? So it’s not for the individual. So it’s not for individuals again. It is the game of the collective. Because the time has come, the collective time.The blossom time. The whole world has to get it. If you have to save this creation, it will get it. If you have to save this creation it has to happen to all of you in a collective way. All right.

Seeker: I have a question again, a very basic question again from ignorance. What prevents us from being from being realized?

Shri Mataji: Again ignorance. No, this is what prevents you, is ignorance. [Laughter]. All right, you answered yourself. Nothing can prevent you. Actually I have not seen it can prevent anyone,if you ask for it. It’s your own.

Now, we are wasting time. But all right,  let’s have it. One more question and one more. That’s all. Then three. Now you said you have no questions, so now let’s have it then.

Seeker: That is before

Shri Mataji: Auh

Seeker: That is before.

Shri Mataji: Now, even now because we will be wasting time like this. And this is very important and I have been here for a short time. All right. We must have civil ways of dealing with certain things like there are other people, who are just asking for Realization. If there is something important you have to say, all right. Is there something important?

Seeker: Just my experiences and I just like to.. 

Shri Mataji: That you don’t worry. Because what I’m saying whatever are your experiences are of no value because the thing is, we have to see the experiences of everyone. All right?It’s all right, we will talk about it later or I will meet you privately for that. All right, or you can write to Me, we can individually meet. It’s a very, Sahaja Yoga is a very intimate, intimate thing. I know each and every Sahaja Yogi. You will be amazed, there are thousands. There are ways and methods of knowing them and keeping contact with them. It’s love. It’s attention. It’s surprising. All right, so we will discuss it later on, whatever are your personal problems, we discuss. All right. Could we now go further or you want to ask some very important question, my child? All right.What is it?

Seeker: Could Realization be consistently dreamed that someone is going to do before he gets it? 

Shri Mataji: What is it?

Yogi: She wants to know if Realization, if it’s a sign of Realization that you dream about something is going to happen before it happens, you dream for the person is going to give before they do it on a consistent basis. Over and over.

Shri Mataji: So what does she want to know?

Yogi: She wants to know that it is related to Realization.

Shri Mataji: I still don’t understand.

Yogi: She wants to know if when she has dreams about a person doing something and then it happens, right? She dreams it and it happens. She wants to know that it is related to Realization.

Shri Mataji: It is, it means that you are a deep person in a way, where you dream what is going to happen, but you are futuristic. That’s a sign that you are temperamentally futuristic and that if you dream about what is going to happen is of course shows that you are a deep personality, but doesn’t mean you are Realized.

All right.So let us have. Let’s go with it. Now what do we do simple things? First of all we have to take out our shoes because Mother Earth will help us. No, no socks are all right. I mean..

Seeker: [UNCLEAR] microphone turned on..I don’t think it’s on[UNCLEAR].

Shri Mataji: You think it is not good. It is not working all right?

Seeker: I don’t think it is working at all

Shri Mataji: It is for recording, now we stopped it.

Seeker: Oh I see.

Shri Mataji: Oh I see. I’m sorry. There is no, no, oh I see, without any connection again I said. [Laugh].

Now, if you have anything tight around your waist or neck sometimes, make it a little bit loosen it better physically also and if you are feeling very warm or uncomfortable, get out of your jackets, please. It’s all right, whatever you want. Spectacles also if you want to take out, is all right.

As long as you are human beings you will get Realization. Don’t need anything more than that. Now you have to put your hands straight, just like this towards me and you have to close your eyes. Just close your eyes

Seeker: They have to be open here or could just be on your lap?

Shri Mataji: Beg your pardon

Yogi: Yeah, they can rest on your knees, that’s fine.

Shri Mataji: All right. Because when the Kundalini rises I ask you to close your eyes. See it is against hypnosis. Hypnosis is done through the eyes. Because Agnya Chakra is turned out. Now you have to keep your eye’s shut because when Kundalini touches the Agnya there is dilatation of the pupil and if the eyes are open, it won’t come up. So please keep your eyes shut. Keep your both hands stretched towards Me as I told you. Stretch. Now both the feet should touch the Mother Earth properly and be comfortable.

You should not be tense about it, just be comfortable. Be comfortable. Put both the hands towards Me, stretch them and please keep your eyes shut. Now at the very outset as I said, you tell yourself very confidently in your heart can say a centres, “Mother, I’m not guilty” say it three times. Now the left hand as I told you the left side is the side of your desire. So you keep constantly left hand towards Me. Put your hands very comfortably on your lap if you want. Absolutely comfortably makes no difference, but should not face each other.