Public Program Day 2

Institute of New Age, New York City (United States)

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1982-1028 H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, Self Realization at Public Program in New York, USA

Come tomorrow to see me. I’ll tell you. Leukomia. That is not difficult. This is not difficult. Don’t you worry. You see they want to suffer. They are Jews. Ha, ha, ha, ha… Look at that now. See… This is non-sense. This is nonsense. You see. You can’t create this body. Can you create this human body? Why do you want to suffer? You have no respect. Absolutely it has no meaning at all. I can’t understand. You want to torture yourself. This is a wrong idea. Absolutely wrong idea. You better come see me tomorrow. I will tell you. Don’t you worry. I will tell you. It is a wrong idea they want to suffer. What to do? Do one thing. Take two sticks and give them. Now hit each other and suffer. (people are laughing in the audience). To such stupid people what should we do? They want to suffer. There is one fellow, who told me, a radio man, that everybody has a right to suffer. I said, alright if you want to suffer, go to some place far away and kill yourself. Why bother everyone with your suffering? It is a sadism isn’t it ? I am suffering, I am suffering, I am suffering… Who has asked you to suffer? Shri Mataj is is smiling and drinking some water. Have you met such wonderful people?… hahhha… that you have to enter into the Kingdom of God, promised that, and you want to suffer? There must be something wrong with you / them? They must be possessed, otherwise I can’t explain this. That you want to suffer, why? It is like a man who is rich, wants to say: I want to become poor and starve myself. In the name of GOD, again. Some people torture others in the name of God, some people torture themselves in the name of God. What do you say to that? What a wonderful understanding of life.

So now, it is very simple for you to get your realization, normally. Normally… You have to do one simple thing, first of all, is to take out your shoes. I am sorry, it is rather cold down. But you have to. Because it is Mother Earth will help us. And it is very good we are very happily on the Mother Earth. Seldom get such a chance. If it is not very cold you can put your feet on the Mother Earth. We take help from all the elements. To put the elements within us first of all,alright. Now you put your both the hands towards me, just like this. Now why we are doing it? Because as I told you, your hands are to be enlightened. The chakras are five, six and seven within you. (Shri Mataji is showing the chakras on Her right hand.) And these 7 chakras must be enlightened. And the message passes through your hands to the Kundalini and She rises spontaneously, as a seed sprouts, it just rises. And that has to happen to all of us. It is very simple. There are so many who are Realized Souls here. They have got it the experience, and you all should get it.

There is some noise from the outside. And Shri Mataji asks: “What is that?”. Audience starts laughing.

A lady says: “They want realization.” And laughters continue.

A gentleman says: “It is a loud speaker for an election. There is a politician advertising himself, from loud speaker in the street.

Shri Mataji: “Why are they shouting?”
From the audience: “Everybody would vote for them.”

Shri Mataji: Vote!…Vote.

A lady says: “Is it Indian politics?”… Laughter in the audience. Shri Mataji is also laughing.

Shri Mataji: “Same style… 🙂 They are one better than the other. Nothing to choose. Alright. Just put your hands towards me. And you have to close your eyes. Please keep your eyes shot. That is important, because when the Kundalini rises, She touches the Agnya and the dilatation of the pupil takes place. But if the eyes are open, it won’t work out. Please keep your eyes shot till I tell you. Just… That much if you cooperate I will tell you later on what is to be done. Put both the hand towards me, stretched out. And keep your eyes shut. Now put your right hand on your heart. That is the place of your Spirit, and left hand towards me as it was. Throughout you have to keep the left hand the same way. Now after putting your hand there, you ask a question. With fill confidence you have to ask a question not hesitatingly, but with full confidence: “Mother am I the Spirit?” Ask the question: “Mother am I the Spirit?”

The audience asks the question out loud: “Mother am I the Spirit?”

Shri Mataji: “Again ask the question: “Mother am I the Spirit?””

The audience asks the question out loud: “Mother am I the Spirit?”

Shri Mataji: “Again ask the question.”

The audience asks the question out loud: “Mother am I the Spirit?”

Shri Mataji: “Now put this right hand up, on the neck again. On the, on the left hand side again, we are working on the left hand side. On the neck. And three times, just say… “Mother, I am not guilty.””

The audience repeats out loud: “Mother I am not guilty.”

Shri Mataji: “Again…”

The audience repeats out loud: “Mother I am not guilty.”

The audience repeats out loud: “Mother I am not guilty.”

Shri Mataji: “Now put back this hand, right hand down below on the stomach, on the left hand side. Again we are working out our chakras ourselves. Pressing it. All the fingers pressing in the stomack on the left hand side. Now ask the questions again…: Mother am I my own Guru?”

( 56:40)

Woman 1: I can be very conflicted having been raised the Catholic and well have […] and Catholicism and other have this Episcopalian […some words ambiguous] other religions which are close to it such at Episcopalian, Episcopalianism. Always teach that you don’t have to do too much with your mind, you sort you bring your body in and the rest go power (?). And they don’t at all condone any praxis such as yours.

Woman 2: […]. You’re mistaken. You read […]

Woman 1: Pardon? Maybe, that’s […]

Shri Mataji: What is she saying?

Yogi: She is saying that Catholicism and religions like that say that you shouldn’t have to do anything and you should be there and you receive and there is not things like meditation and that’s…

Shri Mataji (57:32): But my child what Catholicism is saying it is missing the point all together. I’ll tell you how. The first thing is against Catholicism I would say, not against Christ, but against Catholicism. What they have missed the point first is: Christ has said: ‘You are to be born again.’ See My point is. Are they doing anything about it? Only artificial baptism they give you. Get some water and any Dick, Tom and Harry comes and puts on your head and says: ‘You are baptised’. It is not true, it is not true! Accept it first of all, that’s not the way. The realization takes place when the Kundalini rises in you and you really start feeling the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost, the all pervading power. That’s one thing they are missing. (58:19) Secondly Christ never said that you should have nunneries and all that. It’s absolutely wrong. He could never have said that. Third thing with were they went very wrong is confession. Whom do you confess? Is very bad because every Catholic I have met so far suffers from a very bad centre here – left Vishuddhi, a guilt. If you believe that God is love and if you believe that God is not only love but an ocean of love and an ocean of compassion, an ocean of forgiveness, then how can you say that you go and confess to a priest? You make him mad and you become mad too. All heart attacks, anginas come from that guilt. So many other problems like spondylitis, on physical level I’m telling you, comes from there. It’s a very dangerous thing to have guilt, that’s one thing they are doing. Now go ahead. I’m not against Catholics or anyone, but I’m trying to point out what mistakes they have committed. If they rectified its all right, they have done justice to Christ. Now, the another point you have to see, that a Catholic – if Christ comes in how will you recognize? Do you recognize Me? Do you? Do you know who am I? Can you find out who am I? Christ has said that ‘I will send you a comforter’. He has said: ‘I’ll send you a Holy Ghost’. How can you make it out? You also do not know whether the Holy Ghost was a man or a woman, what She was, what is Holy Ghost is not explained. Nobody has tried. Now this is another thing. Another point is that Catholicism should not take to fanatism. Should open themselves out and see for themselves what people have to say about Christ in other religions. It’s not a contract of Christ. Nobody can have a contract of Christ. He was an universal personality. He was too great even for bible to contain within self. Last of all My objection is that how this saint Paul came in? Who was he? I never recognized him. When I heard about him I said: Who is this man. I have never heard about this. Saint Paul the great. Who was he? Why was he there? How was he connected with bible? If you say I agree Catholics have been sensible about many things but very much stagnating. And the bureaucracy of Catholicism is going it to ruin it completely. And the results of that today you can see, Catholicism – all the catholic countries are poor. There is no blessing of God. They suffer from all kinds of diseases and they are told: ‘You must suffer!’ If you say that as a person who is Christian, you don’t believe in Christ. Christ has suffered for us. We have to awaken Christ within us. And how do you do it? By raising your Kundalini. So do not support any such thing. If they can come forward, open themselves out, I tell you they are the ones who can change the whole world. Even your pope I have given him realization for your information. I met him in Krakow suddenly. And I met him and after all that time it was different. And I raised his Kundalini, it went up. Even now sometimes it comes up but he doesn’t know Me. He doesn’t know anything about. How to approach him? People wrote to him letters, he doesn’t go to him. He is cut off from people, cut off from reality, cut off from everything, is that God, is that Christ? So if you are a real Catholic then you are awaken Christ in you, all right? May God bless you.


Woman: Mataji, in different cultures have different knowledge like when in India people cremate bodies and that is accepted and when over here by some people the idea of cremation is not accepted and these people judge those people and maybe those people judge these people. And You come from a different culture than ours and say how do we recognize You and even for us in our culture where we have bibles and we have different religions and we have many people who shows levels of concern for themselves for other people and our minds are always chasing, we always chasing in our minds. How we have so little sureness and we haven’t come. How are we do now?

Shri Mataji: Are you did not know what?

Woman: How do we know You say: Do you know Me? When so … [word ambiguous] people follow Christ. When Christ was supposedly very holy and very loving and He was crucified. How are we do know if we have minds? You know? But one church says: We are it, don’t listen to them. The next one comes along it says: Do this, don’t do that!

Shri Mataji: What is she saying?

Yogi: She simply asking how do we recognize Christ when we see Him and how do we recognize Holy Spirit when we see Him?

Shri Mataji: Now, first of all I have to tell you that to say different cultures is a wrong thing. You see, you are a human being out and out, all right? That way, we are all human beings. The culture is outside, spirit is within. If you open the body of anyone, whether it is an English man or an American or an Indian it’s just the same. All right? Now, what I’m saying the spirit which is the universal thing within you has to be awakened. The spirit is the universal thing within you. Now, for example you said now, you follow Christ. I mean all of you – lot’s of people follow Christ here. Was He born in America? Was He born in England? Where was He born? People sometimes feel He must be a New Yorker. The way they have the contract of Christ sometimes I feel how are they there. Actually Christ lived more in India than in His own place and never came to New York, take it from Me. So, how can you have such a thing, this culture plus Christ around, everywhere you do Christianity you never thought of culture, did you? Today you are talking of cultures, why, because you think that your cultures are threatened. Actually culture is universal. There is a universal culture within us and that universal culture is the culture you will know when you get your realization. How? For example when you get your realization, what happens that this all pervading power starts flowing through your hand and you get a new awareness called vibrately awareness. Now, if you want to know if it is Christ you put your hands towards Him and you will see tremendous vibrations will start flowing. You ask a question: ‘Are You Christ?’, and the vibrations will start flowing. But if he is not a Christ, you put your hands – it won’t. There is another way, I’ll tell you a trick. If he is Christ ask him to jump in the water. This is another, simple one. But the final one is that you become the spirit. You will know what this Mohammed Sab is, what this Christ is. What all this people they are all together you won’t believe. Christ has said: ‘Those who are not against Me, are with Me.’ Who are those? Mohammed Sab also. It means all the people who are great prophets of the world, those who are incarnations of the world are all one with Christ. He doesn’t sign somewhere a single. All right? So, we have to learn the universal language of vibrately awareness and universal culture of auspiciousness. Auspiciousness is the thing, we should do something that will give us more vibrations. Which is appealing to our spirit. It is not auspicious say for in India, say a saint is sitting and you just go and show your feet to a saint. It is not auspicious. After realization you try that. You will see immediately your vibrations will stop. We have lost the sense of auspiciousness. I would say it was so here before … [word incomprehensible]. We started this nineteen twenties nonsense. That it started. In 20th really started all our nonsense. All kinds of unholy attacks came on us in the western countries. We were driven away from our roots and we started all kinds of nonsensical ideas by which we are removed. But again when you go back to your roots you will find the culture is the same. Is a culture of human love. All right? So, you agree with Me there.

But you are not yet realized. After realization I will tell you, all right? You just take your realization first, all right, that should be so.


Woman: [some words incomprehensible] to say something about Christ. He was born in Jerusalem. I mean I believe so. See, now there’s a problem which what Christ’s consciousness stands for I agree. Now, all this thing has nothing to do with religions. Ok. I know Christ was Jewish. But there was such discrepancies afterwards you know, when Christ at that time … [words ambiguous] up a Jew. Now, when I – you know the … [words ambiguous].

Shri Mataji: You will understand all…

Woman: Ok … [some words ambiguous] a God of some thing or man form a religion or whatever it is. But if You say Jews for Jesus now, they go crazy [word ambiguous] now but they thinking of that in a different way.

Shri Mataji: You see, that’s why you must come face to face to reality. If I say there was Christ, He was the son of God, how can you believe it? I agree with you. But also we believe in Moses, we believe in Abraham equally the same. They have a different – for Moses and Abraham are exist in our Void, here, there what you see as prophets, but Christ is here (Shri Mataji points at the Agnya Chakra). So, whether I say its true or not, how will you verify? You have to verify it. To verify it what have you to do? The point is, you must verify it. And to verify it you must have vibrately awareness. And how will you have vibrately awareness? By getting your realization. Then you – if you ask a question. Say you ask a question: ‚Was Christ the son of God?‘ You will get vibrations. Was Moses a true man? Yes – everything you will know through this new awareness. When you are connected with God, you will know the truth. Jews. Everywhere it happened, you see. For example I was born in an Indian Christian family. Not a single Indian Christian is My disciple and they are against Me. You’ll be amazed I have all Hindus, Muslims, Parsees disciples in India. I go and address in the Catholic Hindu – Sanatan Tharam they call it – temples, thousand Hindus are there. But the Indian Christians do not accept Me. And somebody ask Me: ‚Why mother did You take birth in a Christian family when You are the –‘ according to them I am an incarnation. According to Hindus I am an incarnation. I said why, because they are the most fanatic. While I have Christian disciples all over the world, but not in India. Same thing happened with Christ. When Christ came in He was apposed by Jews at that time. They can’t bear it, to say it’s true with everyone, is not only Christ, it has happened with everyone. You came to India and you will see that every saint has been troubled by his own cast. We had Shirdi Sai Nath who was a Muslim, and Kabir, they was tortured by Muslims.

Woman: Buddha was a Hindu!

Shri Mataji: Buddha, the same. And the Hindus rejected Him. So, it is human nature. When the person is living they don’t want to worship him. They want the person to die and then build all the temples and churches. Now – but see the result. Jews deny Christ, so they had to deny that He has suffered for us. So they say: ‘We must suffer’. Jews had this big philosophy if you remember. We all must suffer for God, we must suffer for God. So, you had Mr. Hitler back on your heads. You have ask for him, you incarnated him by your: ‘We want to suffer, we want to suffer!’ All right, suffer now. Now after Hitler you people have become Hitlers now in Israel. It is a fact, one must accept the way they behaving. This Mr. Sharon came to India just after they have been there. That time he was not a minister or anything, but he was an influential man. They organized a program and I was there. Again I was a chief guest of that organization. And I said one thing. He told how the Hitler people troubled him and what happened, all this things he told. I said: ‘Remember one. Whatever has happened to you, you should not become a fanatic and torture others.’ And he promised – we have a tape. He promised that this can never happen. And you see today what he is doing. Even the Americans don’t know. This is it. This is it! You see, because they have money, Americans may not say anything, but what is wrong is wrong. In the eyes of God it is wrong, it is sinful, whether it is Hitler or Mr. Sharon it makes no difference. Is no question of politics, is question of values, of right and wrong. So this is what it is. So, do not identify yourself with any dogmas or with any fanaticism. Open your eyes and see for the truth what it is. All right? See for the truth what it is and then accept it. Because you should see how fanaticism has ruined our world. Look at that: What are we going to give our children. Mr. Chomeini is on one side. We call him a fanatic but you ask him and he will tell you about Sharon. And if you want to ask about Jews go and ask Christians and if you want to ask about Christian go and ask Hindus in India.

Woman: Well, there are unhappy [ambiguous] people in Israel was very upset about what Sharon did.

Shri Mataji: They did, I tell you. There are always good people in every place. What I’m not saying, not the whole. I am saying there are many Jews they have met Me and said ‘that we are sorry for this’. There are many Jews who are felt like that, believe Me. I agree, there are nice people in every place and they are the ones who are going to get realization. You’ll be one of them, all right. There are so many nice people. Very few are fanatics. How many there are Chomeinis in Iran, you will be surprised. Very few, the hate it. Now in Iran we have Sahaja Yogis, you will be surprised. We have got Sahaja yogis are all over the places. We have Sahaja Yogis everywhere so it is not necessary that if you belong to any community you are condemned anywhere. No not at all as long as you do not take those ways. If you think this ways are wrong then it is good, it is perfectly all right.