Conversation with Sahaja Yogis, Residence of Madhukar Dhumal, Rahuri (India), January 8th, 1983

[Marathi to English translation]

All right? So, this is all a confusion in Gita. But whom to tell, you see? You cannot tell them. Because you see they- actually, it’s an attack on religion itself. In the beginning vegetarianism is an attack on religion.

When Krishna had a cousin, whose name was Neminath. And he was one of the tirthankaras (ford-maker) of the Jains. But these people used to eat meat. Meat was not regarded as violence or anything. And what happened, that, at this time, they attacked him [the attack came] through this Neminath because he saw many chickens being killed, cattle being killed, and he felt that mentally, he felt compassion, mental compassion for them. And he said, “We should have just ordinary food like carbohydrates”. And then, he told them, “Better have [only] carbohydrates, don’t eat any meat and things”. So, all this mental compassion started from his cousin, that was the first one.

But as a result of that, they denounced Shri Krishna because Krishna has some ‘Sanhaar shakti’. And Krishna being a Kshatriya, he used to eat meat. So, they discarded him. So, according to them, Krishna was nothing but a ‘devyoni’. He was nothing higher. These tirthankaras were higher, you see. Actually, they are the same Shambhalastas people. Shambhala Gobi desert. [Shri Mataji is laughing]
That type of people. All right. Whatever happened, they discarded Shri Krishna at that time.

At Rama’s time also, if you see, Rama used to eat meat. Because, you see, his wife wanted a blouse to be made out of the skin of a deer. I mean, it’s such a small petty thing. For that, he wanted to kill the deer. That means he used to kill the deer and eat it. And for making just a blouse, if he can accept such a situation, then he used to eat meat. I mean, this is the proof of the pudding.

And then after that, you see Krishna, Rama, [inaudible] and then Buddha also eat. The surprising thing is, in Buddha’s time, just to show this perhaps, Buddha went, at the end of his life, he went to see one hunter. And the hunter had a – what you call – a wild boar, a boar not cooked. And it was not fully cooked. So, the hunter told him, “That’s not fully cooked and I’ve, I mean it was delayed”. He said, “It’s all right, I have to go now. Better give me”. So, he ate that meat and that’s how he died, you see. So, it is written down that Buddha ate that wild boar [pork] and he died of that. So, this is a myth again saying that he was a vegetarian. He was not. His insight [unsure] meant being kind to your fellow men. It’s a very funny idea, diverting your attention from human beings to other things.

Of course, as we know, we have common sense. In Sahaja Yoga, we have to use common sense. And according to Sahaja Yoga, you see, we don’t believe, indulge, into all these melodramatic compassion businesses, you see.

So, in a proper way, what we do is to find out, first of all, what is the most important thing. The most important thing is to sustain human beings. Because they are the most important, they only can get Realization. So, they are the most important. Now, how to sustain them? Is to give them balanced food, proper food, so that they are sustained and they are good for Sahaja Yoga. 

We are not bothered about other animals. Of course, we don’t eat animals which are bigger than us because their fibres can eat us up [unsure]. But if he eats even smaller animals- actually, in the evolutionary process, we give them a higher life. [Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi]

If you put into a bigger animal, you will see, it will take the shape of the bigger animal. Muscular muscles or any muscles, if you put it into the bigger animal, the smaller one, you will see that the muscles of the smaller animal which you have introduced, will take the shape of the bigger animal.

This is – supposing, a fish has to become a tortoise, all right? Now, it must have the muscles of the tortoise, isn’t it? Now from where to get the muscles of the tortoise? So, to create these muscles of the tortoise, you have to put these fishes into an animal which will make them higher. Once they are made higher animals, then these animals, once they die, they have greater muscular power which can be used and shared by lower animals. It’s common sense. It’s common sense, you see. So, we also make provisions for the lower animals. And the animals who are beyond us, we do not eat. Because it is common sense.

We use common sense; we don’t use this melodramatic love for the bugs you see. [Laughter] But we have common sense. By this common sense, we stand in the centre and we try to understand how our body will be all right. And so doing- for example, a person who just eats vegetarianism food, what does he get? All the troubles, you know, Left Nabhi, first of all. He can also get Left Swadishthana. But Left Nabhi is first. And what is the result of a Left Nabhi is that such a person doesn’t have a proper digestion. The power in the muscles, in any muscle, the muscles become very weak. So, such a person gets a muscle which cannot throw [grow?] the food in a proper way. So, all the time, such a person gets diarrhoea. All the time. And then such a person all the time feels hungry and all the time gets diarrhoea. It’s a very weak constitution and such a person is very good, vulnerable person for ‘bhoots’. Because it’s [he’s] such a left-sided fellow. Now, such a person can have also a very sluggish liver. So, he is very much susceptible to allergies.

For example, in Gujarat, people eat the same oil that we eat in Maharashtra, ’Shengdane’. But in Gujarat, if you go, I tell you, at least, seventy percent people have leucoderma [now] in the vessels. The reason is that’s [That means that] what people eat here, the- what you call, the fat of the groundnut, which does not have much of proteins, they become so susceptible that they catch this leucoderma much faster than the people who eat meat in the Maharashtra. Because they cannot fight it. So, they are suffering from leucoderma, and this Left Nabhi can develop with those people. Because, if you people have Left Nabhi, it is because it is an over-active Left Nabhi, while they have a sluggish Left Nabhi.

So, the people of the sluggish Left Nabhi get all the problems of the sluggish Left Nabhi and it could be one of those where you find all the muscular disabilities like myelitis and all those diseases. What are the names of these diseases?

Sahaja Yogi: Muscular?

Shri Mataji: Muscular these that start degenerating muscles.

Sahaja Yogi: Muscular degeneration. Muscular dystrophy.Shri Mataji: Sclerosis.

Sahaja Yogi: Sclerosis.

Shri Mataji: All these diseases can come though that kind of behaviour.

Sahaja Yogi: Also, the leukaemia and also the anaemias, Mother.

Shri Mataji: Anaemia, not leukaemia but anaemia. And also, the children can be born with that kind of a funny spleen, which doesn’t produce any RBC’s.
So, they have that kind of children, they have that kind of problems, and this and that. So, to be one-sided like that is stupid according to Sahaja Yoga. There is no need to be that kind of compassionate person.

In this country, because lack of money, so many people are vegetarians. Now, for example, people, say, from Bihar, suffer from a disease called ‘beriberi’. If they eat proteins, they will never have beriberi trouble, you see. Because this B-complex and all that, whatever they may say, if you eat meat then B-complex is compensated. So, because they cannot afford to eat meat, they just eat vegetable oil and things like that. [Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi.] Mustard oil. And with that they do not get any protein within themselves, they suffer from that. So, all these diseases of our country can be solved.

Like, also, we have a disease of the lungs – what you call that- [Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi]. TB, tuberculosis. That also comes from the same problem. And the, also, the trouble of the Left Vishuddhi. And this Left Vishuddhi troubles are, could be- what you call – [Marathi] Left Vishuddhi and Left Nabhi, if they join, they form the disease of [Marathi] from liver – rheumatism. Rheumatism and another is, that comes on the joints, what do you call?

Sahaja Yogis: Arthritis.

Shri Mataji: Arthritis. This is also Left [Nabhi, Left Vishuddhi], these two combines. And also, this- what you call- this spondylosis. Spondylosis, spondylosis. Spondylitis is something different. Also, spondylitis, I would say, the whole of, whole of your muscles can go into tantrum [unsure].

And for the brain: madness. Schizophrenic or mad, such people can become mad because, what happens with them, is that they are vulnerable to the left-side attacks. So, they can become mad.

The worse is heart. They get a heart which is sluggish, which – angina – what is the, you see, all these things which require pumping of the blood better, like coarctation and what else is there?

Sahaja Yogi: Low blood pressure Mother.

Shri Mataji: Yes, low blood pressure. And also – what you call – the

Sahaja Yogi: The [inaudible] problem.

Shri Mataji: And also, could be paralysis; paralysis you can get because if the clot is with low blood pressure, you see, it fixes up itself. And such people clot their blood very easily.

Sahaja Yogi: What about [unclear: arteriosclerosis hardening of the arteries] the heart?

Shri Mataji: Yes, of course. That too [unclear][hardening of the arteries] of the heart is, all these things go [handed – hand in hand.Unclear].

All right. So, you see, we have to be sensible people, we are not to work out ourselves though our brain power but through our spiritual power, means the Spirit. And when the Spirit says, “It’s all right” we should see. Such people sometimes, I’ve seen they are numb. And their hands feel so cool that they feel that it is vibrations. It’s not so. They are absolutely numb people and they cannot feel anything. I mean, like death, a person who is going to die.

Once I as treating a lady and I had such numbness on my left-side that I got a fright of my life. I said, “This lady is going to die or what, what’s the problem with her?” So, I found out she was a strict vegetarian. She would not even take – what you call- garlic and would not even touch any-

Sahaja Yogi:[Inaudible].

Shri Mataji: And I think some Rakshasa must have been introduced this because all the Raksahshas whom we know, say, Maheshyogi, say Rajneesh, say this [unclear], Bhandasur [unclear]

Gregoire: The fat little boy?

Shri Mataji: No, no, Bhandasur is Muktananda

Sahaja Yogi: Muktananda

Shri Mataji: Muktananda. Bhandasur is Muktananda. Then this fat little boy who’s there is Raktabija [Red drop]. You see, all of them are vegetarians, surprisingly! All of them are vegetarians, none of them is non-vegetarian. This Vaswani, this [inaudible] all of them. They are all vegetarian. And they are always preaching, “We should be kind to the animals and we should be kind to this”, all sort of nonsense.

[Conversation in Marathi] 

Give bandhan to Manore. You see, it happens like that. One gentleman who is a big – that same fellow partner. He wants to give a program. All right. So, we can’t cancel our program. I said, “Now don’t”. They have already cancelled. I said, “We like that Manore program, we’ll all go there”. Whatever it is, howsoever people you might get, we’ll go for it.

[Conversation in Marathi]

 There’s only one advantage of science is that every country is afraid of each other. [Shri Mataji is laughing] That’s the advantage we have reached of science which we must accept. You see, we must congratulate them for this great thing that they are all frightened of each other. America is frightened of Russia. Russia is frightened of America. That’s a very big thing, you see, that they are frightened of each other. So, they are not fighting and keep apart. They have created this monster and now they are afraid of the monster itself. This is like that Frankenstein, you know? [Laughter].

That I felt that Frankenstein is very symbolic picture which shows that you made a man who started eating you off.

All right. Now have you had your dinner, lunch?

Sahaja Yogi: Maybe [inaudible].

Shri Mataji: Now the second part is to go and I would also like to go.

[Conversation in Marathi]