Agnya Chakra, The door of heaven

New Delhi (India)

1983-02-03 Agnya Chakra: The door of heaven, New Delhi, India, DP, 83' Chapters: Talk, Q&ADownload subtitles: EN,ES,LT,NL,PT,RU,TR (7)View subtitles:
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Agnya chakra. Delhi (India), 3 February 1983.

Today we are going to understand the centre of Agnya. Agnya Chakra, which is placed on the crossing of the ‘optic chiasma.’ The nerves that supply the eyes go backwards in the opposite direction and wherever they cross, this subtle centre is situated. It has a continuous connection with the other centres through the ‘medulla oblongata.’

This centre has got two petals. And this subtle centre on one side acts through the eyes and at the back of the head where you have some protrusion. This is the physical side of this centre is. Now the people who talk of the third eye, this is the third eye.

So that we have two eyes with which we see and there is a third eye which is a subtler eye through which we can see. If you see this eye, that means you are away from it. For example, if you can see your eyes that means you are seeing your reflection, not the reality. If you see anything that means you are looking at it. So those people who say they see an eye for example people who take LSD and all such things, they start seeing another eye. They just see this eye and they think their third eye has opened. Actually, you are very much away from the eye, that is why you can see it. You go to a supraconscious level on the right side and on the left side to the subconscious level, you can see the eye. But in Sahaja Yoga you have to see ‘through’ that eye. Like a window, you can look at the window, but if you see through the window you cannot look at the window. So this illusion that people have that we can see the third eye and that is why our Kundalini is awakened, they are sadly mistaken.

This is a very narrow passage, through which attention cannot pass normally, it is an impossible thing. It is a narrow passage, where the ego and superego fit on to each other and cross each other. And there is no gap in between for the Kundalini to pass through. This superego and ego go back, go down-ward and come to the Vishuddhi Chakra and circle round it and go in the same direction. So you find that they come up to this place, they start from this place, go up to the Agnya Chakra and then they cross- over. But here they are in the same direction as they went, at Agnya here they cross-over. So when you have a problem on the left-hand side, you get the effects of that on the right-hand side. But right-hand starts from here up to this side and the left-hand starts from here. But the left hand actually acts on the right-hand side.

[brief exchange in Hindi and English about effect of lots of talking, including:
What is this?
(someone offers a packet of medicine)
Strepsils? I dont take Strepsils.
a yogi: It is Vicks.
Shri Mataji: okay, then it is fine.]

So this third eye is to be penetrated through or we have to enter into the third eye, through Kundalini awakening. But it is such a closed passage which is the door to the limbic area, which is the kingdom of God, that anybody who tries to push their attention through this closed door, either goes to the left or to the right. And this is the beginning of the trouble of the people when they don’t understand that whatever is unknown is not God, is not Divine. So, when they move on the right side, they go to the supraconscious area. And they start seeing hallucinations. Actually, these are not hallucinations but actual things. because they exist on the right-hand side. So they start seeing things of the right-hand side. They may see colours and the formation of colours, and they may see also people who are dead, who have been very egotistical. They can see Gandharwas and Kinnaras, because they go to the ‘Gandharwalok’, to the right side, and start seeing those things in the unknown awareness of supraconsciousness. But that movement is very dangerous.

Because if anybody catches you there, then you get an added personality sitting on your head, and you get possessed by ego and you become on your own and you actually become malignant. Hitler is one of the examples of that. He learnt this from the Tibetan lamas – how to go to the supraconscious. And when he learnt it from them, he used it and made many people supraconscious, ego-oriented. You must have heard about the lama system, which was another big problem. They knew the future part, who is going to be the next lama. Where you will find him ? Where you will get him? All the future things they knew and people thought this was Divine! To know the future is not Divine. It is an area which we should never go to. Because it is an imbalance. We are human beings and we have to know the ‘present’ and ‘not’ the ‘future’. Once you go through the present stage then you reach a height from where you can see the past, the present and the future. Supposing on the Mother Earth, if you have a means of going higher and hang yourself there, then you can see whatever has passed through, and you can also see what is going to come; and wherever you are, you are in the present. In the same way, when a person ascends in reality, in the present, he goes at this point in the superconsciousness from where he sees the supraconscious right side and also he can see the subconscious; but he has no interest.

He wants to rise in the present. And, this is what actually the Kundalini awakening is. So all those people who say that Kundalini, in the awakening of the Kundalini, it is very difficult and it is harmful, are the people who have no right to awaken the Kundalini. So when they try to play tricks, actually their sympathetic nervous system goes into great agitation. And this sympathetic system on the left and right side starts extracting more energy from the central path. So, much so, that it gets exhausted and such a person becomes actually a mental wreck. So many people who said, we are raising your Kundalini by this method or that method, wreck the life of the Sadhakas. Ultimately they are left high and dry without achieving anything. Nobody knows what to achieve and what to receive. So they are misled.

But logically one must understand, that at least your health should be all right. Mentally you should be better of. Your temperament has to improve; minimum of minimum. But if you are losing all your money to the Guru, you are losing all your health for this nonsensical experiences, and you have no control over yourself, then you must know that this is not in anyway the reality. Reality is where you are in control. If you are in the control of something else, then you are a lost case. For example, some people start jumping and they say ‘Mother I start jumping automatically.’ That is a serious affair. That means you have no control over yourself. You are just jumping because somebody is making you jump. ‘You’ are not jumping: that means your own ‘Chetana’ your own attention, your own awareness is under the control of somebody else; you cannot control yourself. So all these experience in which people think, they are flying in the air or they are having extra-terrestrial movements and people are going in the air and seeing things – all these are very dangerous things. Such a person may ultimately become a lunatic. Absolutely. Because he loses complete control over himself. These are called as parapsychological experiments, in America, to give it a big name ‘parapsychology.’

Of course, it is a para because it is beyond the psyche of a person; but is very dangerous. You are not supposed to get into these muddles where the spirits capture you and you start behaving in a manner that you cannot explain. Once, about I think five six years back or maybe more, no about 12 years back, a group of Americans came to see me and they told me that ‘you must teach us how to fly in the air.’ I said ‘Why? Aren’t you flying ?’. They said, ”No we want to have that space travel”. I said why ? ‘Because Russians are doing experiments in para-psychology and we want to do the same’. I said they will all get possessed and they will finish off. I do not want to do the same thing as Russians are doing. If they come to me I will tell them the same thing. So they said, ‘No, no we must learn.’ I said if I tell you that you become slaves of those spirits and of your own and you start shaking your body all the time. Despite that they said ‘yes, we must do it’. And when they told me that because Russians are doing it, we want to do it, I said who sent you here ? So they told me the name of a gentleman, who is a journalist in Bombay. I said this fellow used to ‘suffer’ from this trouble. He used to leave his body, go into another world, see this and see that, who suffered so much and he was losing complete control over himself, and I ‘cured’ him. So does he think I can put back the disease in you ? I cured him of this disease and why do you want to get into this disease? But they were quite sure that they wanted it and I discovered later on they are having parapsychological business in America which is an ‘extremely’ dangerous thing.

So this is the movement not crossing the Agnya but moving, floating on the left or the right, whether you go to the subconscious or to the supraconscious. Effects may be different but is the same thing to Sahaja Yoga. The people who go to the subconscious area may start seeing me also in different forms, like the people who take LSD they cannot see me, they just see lights coming out of me. And those who go to the subconscious area they start seeing forms and things in such a manner that they think, they have reached heavens. But they are seeing past of evolution, past of everything. So this supraconscious business, is very dangerous, no doubt, but also the subconscious is very dangerous. Because all incurable diseases like cancer, malaitis, all that come from the movement of the attention to the left side. So one should be very careful before going to any one of these tantrikas. Or to these people who are trying to control you or trying to tell you something about the future or the past. There is no need to know about the future or the past. What is the need? How does it help? Actually, if I start telling you how I came all the way from there and how I was held by the jam or anything, will you be interested? How do you get interested in your past glory or past life, which was of no value at all, today? But it is a human weakness that he wants to add to his personality something that is extremely artificial, non-existent, and of no value. And then he says that I did this, I did this, I happened to do this, I never got it.

In India people normally go more to the left side with this Agnya. Because they say, worship God. Now if they have to worship God, they have no connection with God. See I had no connection to the microphone, I could not speak to you. So without connection to God, they start worshipping God. Then they will sing all kinds of Aartis, fasting, this, torturing their own lives. This is left sided people. And singing the praise, all these things. Going to the extremes, 24 hours they are like that. So somebody sucks them into the left side. If they go on saying, Rama Rama Rama………… like that. You might say that Valmiki was told to say. But who told him? It was Narada. Narada is an incarnation, Narada. You are not Narada. So how can you tell yourself or anybody can tell you, take this name? You take any name, you cannot go to God. So where do you go? You go somewhere. There may be a servant called Rama, he might capture you. And people start behaving in such a funny manner that they look like mad, insipid people.

Same thing about supraconscious. People who are very ambitious, they too can get into such a mad condition where they do not think of the collectivity of the whole, but they just start thinking about themselves. And when such a situation comes in, it is impossible to convince them that they are wrong till they reach their Waterloo and finish off.

So this Agnya Chakra is a gate, is the door of heaven. and everyone has to pass through it. Now on this Chakra resides the great incarnation of our Lord, Jesus Christ. In our Indian Shastras, he is called as Mahavishnu, the son of Radhaji. And His essences are made of eleven Rudras, means eleven destroying powers. But the governing essence the main essence is that of Shri Ganesha means innocence. So he is the embodiment of innocence. Innocence means complete purity. And His body was not made out of Mother Earth, in the sense that He never had a body that was perishable. It is Omkara. So when He died, He ascended. That is the fact, He ascended. And because He was a person made of Omkara. Now as He is the son of Radhaji, you can see the relationship between Him and the relationship between other deities very easily. About Mahavishnu, it is written in the Devi Bhagvat.

But who reads Devi Bhagvat? Nobody has time to read these books. Mostly what trash things they read, there you cannot find explanation of all these incarnations who have come on this earth. So to understand Jesus Christ, you must read Devi Bhagvat. But if you say this to Christians, they would not like to listen to you. Because for them, Bible is the last word. How can it be? Because Christ’s life is depicted there only for four years. And He must have reference in other books also, and we have to open our eyes to those books and see for ourselves what is the truth. Because if we want to have an organised religion, you have to say ‘this is the thing,’ there is nothing else. Because if there is anything else, then your organisation falls apart. But it is not true.

Because Christ has been described ‘very clearly’ in Devi Bhagvat. And we can prove it in the Kundalini, that when the Kundalini rises and stops here, at the Agnya, here, you have to say Lord’s prayer, otherwise. It would not open. To awaken Jesus Christ, if you do not awaken Him, it would not open. You have to take His name otherwise it would not open, proves it was Christ who was ruling. Or even if you take the name of Mahavishnu, it opens. So Mahavishnu and Jesus Christ are the same. So you must see the ‘proof’ of it. And just because you want to believe that Christ is your own and discard everybody else as heathens, you are sadly mistaken. Absolutely you are sadly mistaken.

In every scripture people have entered from the back door. Every, scripture. I told you about Gita, what wrong things they have written about the food which is scientifically not true. To say that Tamogunis are the people who eat meat, is not true, because they eat protein and they have to be Rajogunis, automatically. So how they have tried to change it, just to suit their thing at that part. But in the beginning, they could not, because they said, Krishna said that ”You kill these people. I have already killed them. Whom are you killing?’ So just to bring this, you see. Brahmanic stamp, they did this. In the Bible, the mistake came when Saint Paul, who never knew Christ – he had nothing to do with Christ – just entered into the Bible. I don’t know, why he is there! He was not a realised soul. He was just supraconscious Roman soldier. Roman, very bad soldier, who used to kill so many Christians. And suddenly they entered this Mr Saint Paul into it and he is accepted in the Bible all over the world. But you read him and you will know he is not a realised soul at all. He talks in a supraconscious way. He is an organising machine and he is good for nothing.

There he describes, in the acts you see, which he has written – many people may not be knowing that acts has been written by Mr Paul himself – and this Mr Paul tries to describe the disciples of Christ as supraconscious bhoots, absolutely like supraconscious people and they behaved in such a funny manner that everybody started feeling that they are mad. Can you imagine, Christ’s disciples behaving like that! But you have to gulp it down and devour everything if you are a Christian. Because it is in the Bible. And you start questioning if you are a born-realised person, that what is this nonsense, who is this Mr Paul? From where does he come in? Because he does not talk like Christ. So the time has come for all of us to understand that all religions are one. They are part and parcel of one lifestream and that all incarnations are supporting each other, nourishing each other and caring for each other. There is ‘complete’ concord between them. There is ‘no way’, you will see they will oppose each other, ‘never’. So this point is to be proved also and that can be only proved ‘if’ you know how to raise the Kundalini. If you are a realised soul and if you can raise the Kundalini you will be amazed to see that all these deities are placed on various Chakras and they are to be raised.

Now sometimes you see, I am blamed in India that I am preaching about Christ, so I am spreading Christianity, and if I go to England, they say I am preaching about Krishna, so I am spreading Hinduism. Now if I have to tell you that Radhaji has created Christ and if you see Christ, his fingers are like this.” Try to understand. Two fingers like this. One of Krishna and one of Vishnu. And he says ‘the Father’. And who is the Father of Christ, then? Is Shri Vishnu: Shri Krishna. Because in Mahavishnu’s description, it is, Shri Krishna Himself worshipped His son and said ”you will be the support of the Universe, and whosoever will ever worship me, the fruits of that will go to you,” and He placed Him even higher than Himself. And that you can see that above the Vishuddhi Chakra, stands Mahavishnu. And He is the gate through which everybody has to pass. He ‘actually’ blessed Him special and He said ”you will be the support of the universe.” See now you have known that Shri Ganesha stays at Mooladhara Chakra. Mooladhara Chakra means the support of the Moola, support of the roots. But Christ is placed at the support of the fruit. So the same thing evolves at that point, that you become aware of Christ only when your Agnya Chakra opens.

Now this Agnya Chakra can be opened when the Kundalini goes up and opens it up. But supposing if you are too much ego oriented, then you have turned it so tight say, the two ropes have turned it so tight that nothing can pass through. Or if you are too much of a superego and a frightened personality and dominated one, then also it is twisted so badly that Agnya Chakra cannot open up. So what we have to do, is to give a balance through the Agnya Chakra by moving left to the right or right to the left according to the need, which you will understand in the technique of Sahaja Yoga – after realisation, not now. Now when the balance is established then the Chakras, the Agnya Chakra becomes little also better off, because there is no twist on it. And then only, when the Kundalini rises, She can push through. If you are normal person, if you are not an ego and superego type, then there is no problem to raise your Kundalini through your Agnya. But say in Delhi, since I have come, I have been working on the Agnya morning till evening. People are ‘extremely’ ego oriented. They all think that they are the administrator of the whole World. Delhi is full of this Agnya. Such proud and such vain people are here that they always think that they are ruling the whole World. They are the people who are the administrators and the great people belonging to politics, this that. All ego oriented.

And such people cannot be given realisation easily; first their ego has to be brought down and they have to accept God as the Supreme Being, as the Lord, as the Real King of the World. Then only it works out. Now when some people also try to spoil this Agnya like moving the eyes, the roving eyes. Christ imagine! -specially mentioned that ”They say ‘thou shall not commit adultery;’ I say thou shall not have adulterous eyes” Just imagine! He talked of the eyes. Because He is controlling the eyes at that point. But in the West, it is hard to find any man or a woman who does not have adulterous eyes, those who are the followers of Christ have such horrible eyes that you don’t know what they are doing, they will go mad. They cannot keep their eyes straight. All the times their eyes turning, this side that side, this side, that side. They have lusty eyes or they are looking at things or something else, but it is all joyless there is no joy! They are just looking at people for no fun at all.

Translation from Hindi:

Let Me tell you in Hindi. One of My acquaintance had come, his wife was a simple person. When she came to London, she saw people’s eyes looking like this (seeing here and there/ roving eyes). So she asked, “What is happening?” I told, “This is known as flirting”. So she said, “Why do people do it?” I said, “People here do.” What do I tell her why do people do it? I don’t know why people do it. I said, “This person’s wife likes another person. That person’s husband like someone else, it goes on”. She asked, “It goes on even after marriage?” I told her, “It goes on till their death”. She was shocked, “I don’t understand. Our things belongs to us and others things belong to them. What is the fun?” I said, “You ask them”. And not one but everyone is like that. Even when Indians go there, they become like that.

Delhi is very bad in that matter. In Punjabi’s it is a special thing. It’s not there in Maharashtra. In Punjabis, they keep turning their head and looking at every woman till their neck breaks. Till then they will not stop. It is their specialty.

When I got married in Delhi, I saw. While I was studying in Lahore, it was even worse there.

This happened because of parda (veil) system.  Parda system increased people’s curiosity for women. Now there is no parda system, still this is going on. There is no feeling of mother and sister, very less. That’s why Christ has said, “Thou shall not have adulterous eyes”.

Speech continues in English:

So Christ has said : ”Thou shall not have adulterous eyes.” But this was all said as an order by Christ. Of course nobody obeyed it. On the contrary, like I told you the Muslims were, it was said not to drink, they started having poems written by Umar Khayaam to challenge Mohammad Sahib. But among Christians, they started challenging Christ, all anti-Christ activities, by which innocence of the people should be destroyed, by which their eyes would be destroyed and all the purity of mind will be destroyed.

And the another extreme started, which was ‘not at all’ preached by Christ-I don’t know how it came into Christian religion – is a thing called nunnery and making people Brahmacharinis and Brahmacharis. You cannot make anyone Brahmachari or Brahmacharini. It is a state-avastha, where a person has to rise, like Yogeshwara, like Shri Krishna. Despite all that he was a Brahmachari. It is a state of mind where you are not involved. It is a different thing, that you just load somebody with an idea that You should become, absolutely a Brahmachari or a Brahmacharini or you should lead a celibate life, forcing them. Christ never said so. He could not become a married man because He was here on this earth to do one great job, ‘is to make this ascent through this Agnya Chakra,’ that is why He was crucified. By doing this he was to create a space in the Agnya Chakra and that is what He did, at the command of His Father and His Mother. And He did it. So the people who are doing all this non-sense of celibacy – which is not. Which is not, because from the mind there is no celibacy. Celibacy must come from within, the purity must come from within. And that has created a problem in Catholicism and also they started another big stuff like going and confessing to the priest. Now this is also another funny thing is to go to a priest. A priest is never a realised soul I have seen it. Because if he is a realised soul he will run away from the priesthood. So they would go and confess it to the priest and the poor priest would become mad and the confessor would have a left-Vishuddhi, feeling the guilt. That was the wrong side absolutely of God. To feel guilty is not necessary. Then, after Christ, there were people who would not accept Christ, like Jews. So they said that we will not accept Christ and ‘we must suffer because we must suffer for God.’ Even now Christians believe nonsensically that we should suffer. Now, I would say Indians also believe that we have to suffer, but they also know that Mahavishnu is going to come and when He comes, He will have power to suck our Karmas and we don’t have to suffer. Actually, that is what happens when Christ is awakened within you, He sucks your Karmas, he sucks your ego and superego. He sucks your Karmas, your papas (sins), your conditioning and that is how you become free.

This is a very important point which people must know. That, that was a great job He did: was to establish Himself at the Agnya Chakra to suck these two things. And when He sucks these two, when He sucks these, then we are above our Karmas, our sins and our papas. So we don’t have to worry about sins, papas and all that. But these people we should say, those who came to this earth, as missionaries, who came down to India to preach Christianity, had no idea of Mahavishnu nor they had any idea of Christ. They came with a gun in one hand and Bible in the other. And we stupid Indians also did not know any value of our heritage, and we just said ‘all right, let us become Christians so that they give us good jobs.’ And that is how all the job oriented, all sorts of people became Christians. But actually, they should have told that Mahavishnu is born. If they had read anything of the Devi Bhagvat and had told that Mahavishnu is born, then people would have given up this idea that you have to suffer for your Karmas. So Indians are still thinking that we have to still suffer for our Karmas, we should fast, we should walk and we should hang ourselves by the nearest tree all the time. This is not needed. What you have to do, is to just wait for the moment when the Agnya Chakra will be opened. Keep in the centre. As Buddha has said keep in the centre. And then when the Kundalini rises all this whatever is accumulated, will be sucked in and you can get your Moksha. This was the simple thing to be done. Instead of that we Indians believe we must suffer, we must go into fast.

Now in Sahaja Yoga, you are not allowed to fast in the name of God. You may fast otherwise because if you have no money you can fast, you have to fast in any case. But not in the name of God or your Karmas. Then secondly, the Jews refused to accept Christ, as a result, the Jews said that: we are not going to accept Christ, we have to suffer. So, alright, they suffered and suffered and suffered. So they got Mr. Hitler to put them right; their sufferings. After getting Mr Hitler, now they are becoming Hitlers. So you can imagine how wrong ideas can take you to such a limit, that as a result of this thing, ‘that we have to suffer’; that Hitler was born to support their wishes that they must suffer.

Nobody has to suffer any more now. You have to work-out your kundalini awakening. And you have to establish yourself very well in Sahaja Yoga. All your sufferings are going to be taken away. One of the names of the Devi is Papa Vimochini. She removes all your papas. ”Sankat Vimochan” we call it ‘Shri Ganesha’. He is the One who removes all the hurdles of life. And you really, when blessed, you can see that God has so many ways of blessing the people. It is miraculous. Absolutely it is a miracle. So many people who are in Sahaja Yoga now, say that miracle has lost its meaning in Sahaja Yoga. It is a fact.

So, one has to understand that God exists. Not only He exists. He acts. He loves, and that we are supposed to know Him. Whatever you may have done, wherever may be the mistakes, you have to become One with God. Because He is your loving Father. He is the Father who is the Ocean of love. And the only thing you have to do is to just ask for it and when the Kundalini rises you become One with Him and He wants to bestow all His Kingdom, all His powers upon His children, whom He has created.

So all these funny ideas about religion that you have to suffer, that you must do penance, that you should become Brahmacharis – all these absurd ideas, should be given up. You have to be absolutely a normal happy person. God has done so much for you He has created so much for you. But even then if you want to be miserable, what can one do?

As far as Mother is concerned if you want to punish your Mother sometimes, or say, you want to just make her unhappy, then you say; ‘…otherwise I will not eat my food’. So fasting is not allowed in Sahaja Yoga. But if you have to fast for food, other things, it is all right. But otherwise there is no need to fast except for one or two days, you have to fast.

And thus we understand that Agnya Chakra which is the most important door through which ‘everybody’ has to pass, everybody has to pass, and that has to be properly worshipped and kept clean. For that You must keep your attention very clean. Your attention has to be clean. If your attention is spoiled then your Agnya Chakra will not be alright. Then you will have hallucinations, you will have wrong ideas and you will think of wrong things. So if you really want to find the meaning of your being, if you really want awakening of the Kundalini, then know that whatever you have known so far about God or everything has to be revised, has to be again seen for yourself, what it is like. Unless and until you pass through this you ‘cannot’ be baptised.

The people who talk of Baptism, like John the Baptist, he was really a realised soul and when he raised the Kundalini and put the water on the head, he really gave them realisation. That is ‘baptism’. Christian means a baptised person, but not any Dick, Tom and Harry can put his hand on your head and say you are realised. On the contrary, William Blake* says, ‘the priest cursed on my head.’ It is true. For a realised soul, if you put the hand of a priest who is not a realised soul and who is not properly entitled to do it, children get into problems. We have seen many children who are realised souls, who got into problems – their eyes became squinty, they become funny, their brains went off and we have to cure them. So it is a very dangerous thing to make everyone put their hands on this pulsating fontanelle bone area which we call as Taloo. Taloo is the Brahmarandhra and is the ‘most’ important part of a human being, so everybody should be ‘very’ careful before they touch this. You have to be a realised soul and you have to know how to do it, means you have to be a Sahaja Yogi. So for your children when they are born you have to be careful. If they are realised soul; more so. Because if they are not realised souls, then their reaction is not so violent. But if they are realised soul, they scream and shout and they cannot bear it.

So one must understand, though it looks like very traditional or anything like that, one must see that those things which are harmful to human beings must be given up. The time has come for all of us to give up those things which are not good for our health, which are not good for our spiritual being. The time has come. If you do not accept this, then only thing I can say as a Mother that ‘I am concerned about you’. But it is much more than that. It is a dangerous time you are in.

And Agnya Chakra, if it is spoilt at the back, that means you are definitely possessed. At the back if the Agnya Chakra is caught then one develops blindness with the eyes open. Now, in India, it is very common. The reason is we have very funny ideas about the Devi or the God coming into the body of human beings. How can that be? It is again the same thing, supraconscious business. A maidservant who is all the time using bad words, who has no sense of cleanliness, who has no sense of holiness, suddenly becomes agitated, ”Ho Ho Ho…” she goes on. And all the women, in Maharashtra it is very common, they will go and fall at her feet. ‘The Devi has come, the Devi has come’ and now they fall at her feet. And then ultimately they are caught up. Because they get the possession by a spirit. We had one very bad case recently where a man, he came to me and he told me that he cannot help, he has to touch the feet of his sister-in-law because she is a Devi. I said why? ‘Because she gets into this agitation.’ So I told that if you think that she is a Devi and if you want to touch her feet you don’t come to me again. But he became blind, absolutely blind ! And when he became ‘absolutely’ blind then he came to me and then we had to put the Agnya Chakra alright.

Now how do you do it in Sahaja Yoga. As you have the photograph you may use it. Put a light before the photograph. Light is the way you cure your Agnya Chakra. Always. Light or the sun. Because Christ resides in the sun. So what you do, is to put a light in front. Take another light behind and give an Aarti to your Agnya Chakra at the back. It is resided by Maha Ganapati and Maha Bhairava. So you just give it an Aarti and Agnya Chakra will open. But how do you open this? Very simple thing is that any thought comes to you, you should say ‘I forgive’. This is the greatest weapon Christ has given us. You just say ‘I forgive, I forgive’, and you can overcome your ego. This is the mantra for this Chakra in the front, where you just say ‘I forgive, I forgive, I forgive’ and you will find your Agnya Chakra will open out and you will find your ego will go away. Forgiveness is one of the ‘biggest’ weapons human beings have got. But they are so stupid if I tell them ‘Forgive. Now, what is there not to forgive ?’ They say it is very difficult to forgive. I say what is so difficult? What are you doing? Are you doing something when you are saying, I am forgiving? Do you do something? Nothing. On the contrary when you do not forgive, then what is happening is, the person whom you do not forgive, is actually torturing you, while you are not torturing that person. So this is the mantra of the Agnya Chakra in front, and at the back, as I told you, you have to move the Light. Now somebody will, you see, one day they will do, two days they will do, – that is not how the Sahaja yoga is to be worked out. You have to really go all out to do it, and I have seen people who had eyes which were all bent like this, they could never raise their eyes, are now, have open eyes, proper eyes with this working. It is ‘very’ simple to be done. There is one more thing that happens to our eyes. When the Swadishthana Chakra goes out of order. It is represented here at the back, which is ‘around’ this back Agnya. So when you have diabetes or anything like that, people start becoming blind. Because this Swadishthana Chakra which is around, goes on pressing it and that is how, that part which is surrounding this center, oppresses and augments that centre so that the eyes cannot see; there is no light. There is darkness and people have eyes open. You have seen many diabetic people get this blindness. So, first of all, cure your diabetes through curing your Swadishthana. And also you can use an ice around your Swadishthana at the back. But first of all if you improve your Swadishthana you will feel very much better. So the treatment of the front side is with the light. And the treatment of the back is with the water. But the best is also to use the light or the water whichever way you like. Because if it is Swadishthana you have to use the water but if it is ‘just’ the possession, then you have to use – without diabetes, if it is a possession – then you have to just use the light. That is how we cure our Agnya Chakra.

Even Christ said I am the Light, I am the PATH. Because He is the Omkara. He is the path. And He is the door, He is the gate. And everybody will have to pass through His gate. He never told lies. But they crucified him. They just crucified him. One thing good we have, we are fortunate in this country, we don’t have any organised religion. Thank your stars for that. If you had any organised religion, you could never have taken to Sahaja Yoga. Because according to organised religion you have to believe in one person and as if he has no connection with anyone, he is alone person hanging in the air, he has nothing to do anybody else. So ‘thank’ God for this that it has not happened in this country. And that is how we have people who are more suited for Sahaja Yoga than we have in ‘any’ other country because they are so conditioned. And it is a very great blessing. For example, now, Sai Nath who was the last incarnation of the Guru Principle. He was a Muslim. But all His disciples are Hindus. They are not Muslims. Muslims don’t accept him even as God. Not only that, but there is one place called Hazimallang, where a Saint died who was a Muslim. But he told that ‘only the Brahmins, means the realised souls, must worship me.’ And so they had to appoint some Brahmin – which they did not understand – the word ‘Brahmins.’ They are Hindus who are worshipping a Muslim peer. So the idea, that once you become the peer, once you become a realised soul, then he has no religion. He is beyond religion, He ‘becomes’ the religion. Then there is no binding for him because a drop has gone to the ocean. Now he has become the ocean. So for the ocean, there is no limitation. And because he has crossed his limitations, he is ‘above’ all these things. And that is what we believe in. That if he is a peer. If he is a realised soul, then he is a realised soul. Once I went to a small village, called Mian Ki Takdi () as soon as I stepped into the village, I felt ‘tremendous’ vibrations. And I said “Who was the great saint who lived here?’ So they said there was one Muslim peer (). I said ‘Whatever it is, he was a Saint’. And when I was sitting and giving a lecture, you will see the photographs, the lights came on my head seven times. And the seventh time then I put my hand like this. But nobody saw it, only I knew. And I knew that it was there, I was laughing with it. And then the people, you see, when they took the photographs, they could picture it. So these realised souls are all over and they are helping. They never enter into anybody, they never trouble you, they guide you, to the proper lines. They bring their Angels and they help you to come to the right path, to the right conclusions. And they never try to possess you, they never try to hypnotise you, or take you to the wrong side of life. So when you are realised also, you must know that you have to know ‘completely’ what is the reality. Go on understanding, trying to assimilate it, not to discard it because you are attached to another organisation. There is ‘no’ organisation in Sahaja Yoga. you know very well. There is no grouping in Sahaja Yoga. There is no membership in Sahaja Yoga. ‘But’ it is a living organisation. It is a living organisation. So anything happens here, the whole body knows. We don’t have to have organisation written for this body. In the same way, Sahaja Yoga works out.

But still I must say, as we have in our body different type of sensory system, we too have in Sahaja Yoga, people who just come in, just the beginners. They are not exposed to the truths which they cannot bear.

Then if they pass a certain line of understanding then they are taken as we say Nirvichar-Samadhi people, who are given certain facilities to enter into certain new dimensions and ideas. But the inner circle people are the ones who are in Nirvikalpa. Such people are only taken into consideration for teaching Sahaja Yoga. Anybody who tries to teach Sahaja Yoga, talk about Sahaja Yoga at the second stage just is thrown out, because there is a centrifugal and a centripetal, both the forces working. By one, you come in and by another, you are thrown like a tangent. Nobody is anxious to have a very big group or anything. If it is big, well and good, one wants to save as many as possible. But nobody is going to force you, nobody is going to have any cheap sort of a circus for it. It is the desire of the people, who want to come in. It is the wish of the people, those who have to come, you cannot force them. You cannot force a person to get their realisation.

So this is what is today at the Agnya Chakra, I have told you. Agnya Chakra I have spoken many times in England and in America and was very much sometimes “opposed” by some churches and things. But I think if they want to exist any longer, they ‘better’ take to truth and ‘know’ that what they know so far is incomplete. They have to know the full of it. Because Christ could not talk much and whatever He said was written down by His disciples the way they understood. To understand Christ you have to have your realisation.

May God bless you

If you have any questions, you can ask Me again today for a while and then I’ll make a move because today I was unusually late. But it happens. You have to get out of time. You have to get into timelessness. You have to get deconditioned about timing. Those who see time too much, they must learn to get out of time. And that is very, very important because time is according to certain auspiciousness has to be worked out. It is not to be worked out the way we think ‛this is the time“ and I cannot be the slave of this watch. I have another watch of My own. So it all works out that way. I am not guilty for coming late, but I’m sorry because you had to wait.
Hindi Speech:
Q: What is the reason for having dreams?
Shri Mataji: The reason for dreams is that when you are sleeping your attention moves either to the supraconscious side or to the subconscious side, your attention starts moving. And then you start seeing things which are connected with your subconscious or your collective subconscious and all this thing. And you may go onto the supraconscious side where you see your future and all this thing. But the reason why you get dreams actually is that the unconscious, which is within you, or you can say the Kundalini or your Atma is trying to guide you to the right path. And how does it guide you to the right path? Is through dreams. But these are misunderstood.
How do you understand these dreams because you are so confused. First, you go deep into yourself and you touch the unconscious — sushupti stithi. But from there you come out. And then when you are coming out, you touch your subconscious or maybe supraconscious. So whatever anubhuti you had, or whatever experience you had, of the depths of the sushupti gets confused and you don’t know what you dreamt, and you don’t understand and you forget it. But those who are realized souls go to their sushupti and see exactly what they have to know. Like many people in Bombay when I came, they didn’t know I was coming but they were at the airport because they got the dream. So at this sushupti level, at the deep level, you get the communication with God if you know how to go in and come out fully aware. But if you get confused with supraconscious or subconscious areas or if you start, your chitta is not so clear-cut, then there can be a big confusion.
Question — How can you compartmentalize? What happens when a person is a realized soul? What is the state? When he is a realized soul, what happens to a man?
Shri Mataji: See, the first thing is to say that ‛how can we compartmentalize it?“ because is the ego and superego is on two sides. Actually, have you not noticed in our body, everything is a compartment. You see even a cell is a compartment. Everything has a boundary. It’s not some sort of a … even the blood has to pass through the channels. It has to go through these arteries. Everything is a compartment. There’s nothing like something just left there like a pulp. If it becomes the pulp, you won’t exist. So, everything is in compartment. Its ego and superego are like balloons and they are two balloons which can press each other, which can flow on one side. Now see the ego, though it is placed on the left hand side more, is placed like this on the left-hand side more, and this one on the right-hand side is the superego. Still, the ego when it increases in size it starts moving on the right-hand side and the superego, when it starts moving, it starts moving this way. So everything is in a compartment in our body. You are sadly mistaken if you think there’s anything is in a pulp, nothing. Or something like a air flowing in. Nothing like that. Everything has a channel. Everything is in a compartment.
Question — What happens to a man if he is a realized soul?
Shri Mataji: Now that is — I have been telling you what happens to a man he is a realized soul that his ego and superego are sucked in and he gets a dent in the fontanel bone area, and the Kundalini shoots off, and he can feel the Cool Breeze coming out of his head, and he can feel it in his hand. This is only on the central nervous system this happens. But so many things happen much more – how to use this power, what it means and all that you have to learn.
Question – In spite of tremendous stress on Kundalini by Your Holiness, it is hard for me to reconcile myself with the fact that there is not the slightest reference of Kundalini in the authoritative guides on yoga – I mean Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras or Gita. Why?
Shri Mataji: Yes it is surprising that people will say … He says that in Yoga Sutras of Patanjali it is not written about Kundalini and also about Gita it’s not written about Kundalini. Is a fact because, you see, it was a secret science. It was kept a secret science, in My first lecture only I said, till the Sixth Century. In the Sixth Century, Adi Shankaracharya for the first time opened his mouth about it. It was a secret science with very great gurus like Janaka gave Realization to Nachiketa. And in the same way Shri Krishna did not talk about it, because you see even when Markandeya talked about it, people did not know what he was talking. They never thought him to be a sensible man.
Then later on as the people became into two compartments, one on the right, one on the left side, some started worshipping God in a devotion and in a bhakti way, then another started doing yAgnya havanadi things. So whatever was required for these two types of things evolved and that’s what developed. The central side of evolution was kept a secret. And even at the time of Shri Krishna, it was not mentioned, not a word about this thing was mentioned because this is an internal happening, it’s antar yoga. It was not described, but Shri Krisha hinted at it, that you have to have your yoga. But how, He did not say because that was not the time. He was the one who laid the seeds. That’s why He is called as Krishna. Krishna means ‛krishi,“ the one who has done krishi. So this one was laid, the sprouting had to come. Today it was to be told.
So I am telling you about it. Everything is not told at the same time. Same in Sahaja Yoga. We don’t tell you everything at this state. About Agnya Chakra I have told you something, but not all. Gradually when you will be so aware, I will tell you. It has to be seen how far to be said at what time. And that’s what was needed at that time was told by Krishna. So Gita is the one which only tells you that this will happen. But Gyaneshwara, who was born after the sixth century, in Gyaneshwari has written about Kundalini clearly. Because, though Gita it is not written, but he said, ‛this is how it is done.“ Gynaeshawara has written. Though he has written, it’s not, it’s the Gita translated into a common language, he put also the knowledge of Kundalini. Because at that time, it was to be told. Before that, it was not to be told. Shankaracharya in the sixth century did it, then Gyaneshwara did it, then Nanaka did it, then Kabira did it. All these people did it. Not only, but even Mohammed Sahib in a way has talked about it – about the Sahaja Yoga and resurrection time. They all started talking about the resurrection time much later as they started seeing people getting it. Because to talk too much about the future is dangerous. That time Shri Krishna was placed with Arjuna when they were at the war, and that time He had to talk about the problems of hinsa, ahinsa and those ideas which we have about — wrong ideas we have. And that’s how He talked on that subject. Whatever was the subject, He talked on that and He told him how to become one with God … not how…that when you become one with God, you become a Stitha Pragnya. He gave the idea as to what will happen to you. But how it will happen He did not say. That was left to Me to explain. They can’t do everything, I have to do something, isn’t it? Because if He had said how, then they would have said, ‛Give me Realization.“ But they were not prepared for realization.
Question: I have tried to go into spiritualism in the real sense of the word. But my health is deteriorating day by day.
Shri Mataji: Some gentleman has done spiritualism in the real sense of the word, and his health is deteriorating. I have told you already what is the reason for that is – you take to spiritualism out of ignorance. There’s no spiritualism. There is no ‛ism“ with God. Spirit cannot be ‛ismized“. So, you take to Sahaja Yoga. Become your Spirit. You cannot ‛ism“ it. That’s one thing you cannot ‛ism.“ You can have ‛isms“ in everything. But Spirit is detached. It cannot be put into ‛isms.“ So those who say ‛spiritualism“ must know they have done wrong. All right? You come to Sahaja Yoga and forget it. I know I am sorry for that. You are misled but God is there and Spirit is there. In Sahaja Yoga we promise you that. Whatever mistakes you have done, it can be corrected. Hindi Speech.
I would say that whatever I said today, you must take the tape and listen to it at home. I’ve said all these things already. But your attention should have been there. Now you take a tape from these people. Listen to it. I’ve said the same thing which you are telling – that these are the problems of a big person who goes to these things and how he gets into problems. All right? So when you come to Sahaja Yoga. I know you are a seeker. And, if you are a seeker, that will be given to you. That’s your right to have it.
May God bless you.
Question: Which will be the end of all the world and of humankind?
Shri Mataji: Which will be the end of world? Again, futuristic, very futuristic. Let’s not talk about the end. Just now is the beginning. When the child is born we just don’t think about his death, do we? So better be worried about the beginning of this new world that we have started and don’t think of the death and all those things. Forget it for the time being.
Question: [written question in Hindi from a Sahaja Yogi from Kanpur]
Shri Mataji: There’s a gentleman from Kanpur he says that in Kanpur people are only interested in the physical curing. Have nothing to do with these wretched people, in this place. You just have nothing to do with them. If they are interested in material well being, Sahaja Yoga is not for such people. At all. If they don’t want to have God. Forget them. Let Kanpur be drowned in Ganges if they are like that. Useless people. Absolutely. Why should you worry about them? If they don’t want to have God. Don’t waste your energy on people who just want to be cured. It’s absolutely useless such people, they are very selfish, self-centred and troublesome. They are good for nothing. If they don’t want to have God, we have nothing to do with them. We have no relationship with them. They can go to the hospitals, take expensive medicines and die there.
I don’t like people who just come to Sahaja Yoga for only physical fitness. Is this is a hospital, or what? Reducing it to that level is not good. Anybody who thinks that he should help others should start helping them in Kundalini and not start curing people. Please don’t do that. I’ve told a hundred times, don’t do curing. Because what will happen if you start curing you’ll start thinking that ‛I’m curing“ and you’ll get into supraconscious. So better not do it. You just put yourself into a state which is proper for Sahaja Yoga. Gradually people will know you and will start coming to you.
But as far as is U.P. is concerned, God save that country, that place. I am married in that place. I know the people. Useless, absolutely good for nothing. They made Sitaji go to Banbas, who can forgive them? All dobhis, that’s all. U.P. wallas have a very great ego, you know. We had a servant who was from U.P. I am also married in U.P. I shouldn’t say but I saw that very clearly. And we had another one who was from Madras. So he was very clean Madrasi fellow, cleaning everything nicely, working very hard.
So I told this U.P. walla, I said that ‛If you don’t learn all these qualities, one day you will have no jobs in Delhi and you’ll all go out of jobs. You’d better learn all these qualities of Madrasi people – how neat they are, clean they are. They take their baths every day. You’re a lazy lump.“
So he said, ‛Ah, thika, inko to bartan majne dijiye hum to raj karange. [Hindi. Translation: all right, let them clean utensils, we will rule]
They are all going to do raj, just imagine. So one must understand that every place has its own problems. Out of them U.P. and Bihar, I don’t know how it is going to work out. I am worried. I have already tried to send somebody to Lucknow to do something. My house is in Lucknow. My relations are in Lucknow. I’ve given Realization to all My relations but they find it strange, the whole thing is so strange, you know. You don’t know what to do with that place. Imagine a nawab married three hundred and sixty-five wives. Can you imagine such a nawab living in that horrid place? Singing gazals morning till evening. All the dirty things they do. And I don’t know if you can really bring them around.
There are some nice people. I wouldn’t say there aren’t. But on the whole, the whole system is based on something very nonsensical and to bring them around…. Specially Kanpur is such a materialistic place, very materialistic. Very materialistic people. The Ganges flows — Ganga, Gomati, Yamuna — all these rivers are in the north, cleansing morning till evening, working so very hard. When will the people realize?
So the Kanpur gentleman should come and settle down in Maharashtra. Rama also had to leave with Sita. [In Hindi – Shri Mataji says sorry to people in audience who are from UP – the place of Shri Mataji’s in-laws.]
Question: When I give realization to persons who have meagre desire or to my own family members as there is no Sahaja Yogi?
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no, no. Don’t try your family members. That’s not proper. Those who have no desire for Sahaja Yoga, you cannot push them in. It’s impossible. Who is your family? These are your family.
Like Christ once they asked, ‛Your brothers and sisters are calling You.“
He said, ‛Who are My brothers?“
‛Your brothers are calling You.“
He said, ‛Who are My brothers?“ He looked around.
Don’t push your family members. All right? They’ll become bhoots. Because if you push them, imagine, Agnya Chakra is closed, they’ll go to the left or to the right. They’ll become bhoots or not. Don’t push them at all.
What else?
Question: One of my cousin brothers here in Delhi where I’m staying drinks wine but does not want to come to the Sahaj Yog program in spite of my persuasion as he’s convinced that he simply can’t drink or smoke after attending the program.
Shri Mataji: You see, somebody’s brother doesn’t want to come to Sahaja Yoga program because he thinks after coming to program he cannot drink and smoke. Now, I would say that you need not tell him this secret that after Sahaja Yoga you don’t drink and smoke. You need not tell him. Once you bring him and he gets Realization, he will not do it. So let us manage it on that level. Better not tell him if you are interested. I don’t say. Did I say, ‛Don’t drink, don’t smoke“? Did I say so? I don’t say so. But it just happens. So just let it be, let them come as they are.

Translation from Hindi:

Shri Mataji: What are they saying? Tell Me if it is sensible, otherwise there is no point in wasting time on useless talks.

Sahaja Yogi (reading out): Revered Mother, I bow to You respectfully at Your lotus feet. The meditation we do in Mooladhara chakra, of Shri Ganesha, how should it be done? How is the scene at Mooladhara meditation? Meaning do we see the nadis nearby or is there some other scene?

Shri Mataji: You have asked that how should we do meditation of Ganeshji? And whether we can see something there on the Nadi or not.

I told you today itself that if you see something then you are outside. Because when you see you halt.  Your movememt stops. There is nothing to see. You don’t see any scene. You are there. Seeing anything is wrong. If anyone sees anything, then they are not there. And you should not see also.

While going to the airport from here, you see thousands of scenes. If we go on looking at all this, how will we reach the airport? We have to reach the airport. That’s why stop seeing. just imbibe and absorb. That is important.  Experience.

You asked how we should do meditation of Shri Ganesha. For this you please come to our centre. There you will be taught the method of meditation. Learn that properly and listen to what they tell you. You may not even need to do meditation on Shri Ganesha. They will tell you on what to meditate. You yourself will come to know on which (chakra) you have to meditate.

Based on your state, based on your requirement, you will come to know yourself and you will be able to judge for yourself.

Sahaja Yogi (reading a question): Body is purified by water, mind by truth. And soul by – he has left it blank. Is it austerity and reason?

Shri Mataji: He has asked – body is purified by water and mind by what?

Sahaja Yogi: Mind by truth

Shri Mataji: Mind by truth and ..

Sahaja Yogi: Soul is by – he has left it blank. Is it by austerity and reason?

Shri Mataji: He thinks soul is purified by austerity. Not at all. it doesn’t happen. It is the other way round. In Sahaja Yoga, first the top floor is built then the lower ones. First you are given realization. In the light of that you see what is wrong with you.  Where the dirt is in your body.  In that light you understand where your mind is unclean. In that light you see the problems of your soul. First the lamp is lit.

Shri Krishna has also said  that this tree (of awareness) is hanging upside down. The tree of life is hanging upside down. Its branches grow downwards, and its roots are on top.  So first of all, we take you up and give realization in the roots itself. First understand the roots. Once the roots become alright, the rest of the tree will become alright by itself.

This is the significance of Sahaja Yoga. First the root is awakened.

Even otherwise, if you have to treat any tree and you say – „ first make the leaves alright, then make the trunk in the center alright”. Nothing can be done.

But if you go down to the roots directly, then through  the roots you can save the entire tree. This is the path of Sahaja Yoga that you go down to your roots. The root is on top at the Sahasrara. Then you are nourished by the Chaitanya, with which all your mind, knowledge, ego and body, whatever other physical problem you have, is cleared out.

1:18:22  –  If there are any people from UP (North India) please forgive Me.  That is the place of My in laws.

1:20:23  – This person says „there is a problem with my stomach.  My liver region is swollen.  There are soe light patches on my back”.

Shri Mataji:  This person says he has a problem with his stomach, his spleen is bad, etc..  If he has smoked, or drunk alcohol, then may God save him, because our hands are tied.  So the first letter that came, is its answer in the second letter.

That is why, only when they get pain in the stomach, they will come to Sahaja Yoga.  When their spleen gets enlarged, then they will come to Sahaja Yoga.  Those whose spleen is enlarged should come to the Center, in the same way that you go to a doctor, with full faith they should come.  Anywhere else people charge, take away your money, and sometimes even your life. No one knows.

But those who come to Sahaja Yoga with full faith and trust, they get all the treatment and advice free of charge.  And if they do the treatments with full faith and devotion, they get immediate benefits.  But because it is free, people do not respect or value it.  You come and tell us all your problems, and after that, not only uyour complaints will be solved, but you will also get union with Paramatma (God almighty).  Has this ever happened anywhere?

There is a proverb – I went to ask God for light, and instead He gave me Paigambari (prophet or apostlehood)

That is the situation in Sahaja Yoga.  You will come to ask for fire or flame, and you will get sainthood.  He spoke about it – William Blake*.  That men of God will become prophets. And they will have the power to make others prophets.

We are giving you „Paigam”.  You will come to cure your spleen, and you will take back with you prophet-hood.  This is what is Sahaja Yoga.  It is such a great thing.  Even to understand it you have to have that intrinsic quality.

Shri Mataji – Finished?  Now please excuse Me.  Those who wish to touch My Feet, may come.  But with decorum.  Dont rush.  Dont run.  I am sitting here.

*(about William Blake)