Workshop in Perth (Australia), 2 March 1983.
Sahaja Yogi: God the father, God the mother and if she recognizes you as God the mother is Sai Baba, this fellow in India God the father?
Shri Mataji: No.
Sahaja Yogi: But on the whole, is there, I mean
Sahaja Yogi: She answered your question.
Sahaja Yogi: You do need a father.
Shri Mataji: I’ll tell you how you should understand, all right, that’s better to see you [sounds like sa].
Sahaja Yogi: Do you want to all come a little further.
Shri Mataji: Come along, I will tell you, how to recognise, to see a right person.
Sahaja Yogi: Before you ask a question, you kindly just come forward so that Mother can speak to you directly and so She can hear you.
Shri Mataji: I hope you have explained to her about the center heart position.
Sahaja Yogi: Just a little, I said this is the center…
Shri Mataji: mother, She’s the Mother of the universe at that point, all right? In the center of – it’s all right, let her be comfortable – is the center heart, as you call, we call it center heart. But, is this center, this is a very subtle center within us which manifests the gross plexus, which is called as – thank you – which is called as the cardiac. There is any doctor here? This subtle center is bestowed upon by the deity of the Mother of the universe, all right, She is called as Jagadamba Now Her position is such, if you can see clearly? That green, big thing, that’s the place She resides. And She’s alone there, She comes alone because the people are trying to get over this round thing that you see here, we call it as Void or you can say Bhavasagara means the ocean of illusion. So the seekers are trying to get out of the ocean of illusion because we live in illusion, we have not yet felt that subtle thing, all right? So the Mother there, is to protect, to guide, to counsel and bring them out of that illusion, all right? Now, I have not told you the story of the creation. That’s why there’s a confusion, that the Father, the God does not do anything but to witness the play of his power. He is just witnessing the play of his power and His power is the Mother, the Holy Ghost. In the Bible it’s a mystery, they have not talked about Holy Ghost so much because that time the Mother of Christ was playing the part of Holy Ghost, so they didn’t talk because they thought the attention will go to Her and She’ll be killed. And then as Christ has got eleven destroying powers He will destroy the whole world. And that is why they never said about the Mother. All right? So that is the Mother, who is, we call as Mahalakshmi, is the power of ascent, as She was. So this Mother, who is the one who is the protector, the Mother who looks after you, who kills all the demons and all the devils in you and outside is the one who is called as Jagadamba in Sanskrit language, means the Mother of the Universe, all right? The Father about whom Christ has talked or about everybody has talked as Allah and all that, this Father is the witness of the play of the Holy Ghost, all right? And He’s reflected within us in the heart as the spirit. So the Mother has to do it alone. Now as far as this particular gentleman you asked Me, we can see that instead of taking us out of illusion he puts us in the illusion. He gives you diamonds and diamond is a very big illusion. He gives diamonds to people who are very rich, I mean for example he’ll give diamonds to My brother who is a very rich man and he gets a heart attack. Most of the people whom he has given a diamond get a heart attack. Can you imagine? On the contrary people think he is going to cure. So many people have got heart attacks from this man. Now if somebody is a godly person and a divine person he’ll not give you diamonds, because what is a diamond? You can purchase it in the market, isn’t it? What is so special about diamond? He’ll give you something that nobody can give you: that’s your spirit. All right? So this is what it is: they create an illusion, all kinds of illusions are created. But Sai Nath, the first one, the real one, who was on this earth real Sai Nath, at Shirdi, who was, He was the one, who was a real prophet. He was the Primordial Master, who came on this earth. And He was the last of them, so far, who’s done lot of work for Me and it’s helping Me such a lot in that area only our work is doing very well because he’s talked all about Sahaja Yoga, about all these things to people so people are just prepared in the villages and all that, just to get it. It’s much easier to do it, when He has already prepared people for that, they are ready. They know what to do, how to discriminate, how to find out, who is the right person. In that area he never goes, he never goes in that area, nor people have any respect for him, even in Bangalore people have no respect for him. So to understand a person first of all we must know that does he, does that person takes us out of the ocean of illusion? Now if I say we are in illusion just now, now I must prove, then, isn’t it? If I say something like that, I must prove then what is not illusion. This is illusion because we haven’t got our awareness yet, of that level by which we will know, what is not illusion. For example, supposing we are blind, we can’t see things, there is darkness, then no use talking to a person about the color who cannot see, because whatever you may talk he won’t understand. For him his dark life is the reality and enlightened light, enlightened life is an illusion – for him. But supposing by any chance you can open the eyes of the person then he can see that this is not an illusion, that one was an illusion. In the same way something has to happen to all of us, by which you achieve that state where you become the spirit and you feel this all-pervading Power which is around us. First time you feel it when you get your realization. So one should not talk of diamonds, pearls, gold which has nothing to do with a person who is a divine person. Now it’s all right I am a married woman, My husband has a big position I have to live with him as a normal human being, I’m living. So I have to dress up the way his status is in life. It’s all right, makes no difference to Me, I can sleep on the road, I can go by bullock cart, I can go by Rolls Royce also. Makes no difference because I’m so detached about it. So it’s nothing important, what is important is that we should know what is reality. And to know the reality, we have to become something more then what we are. And that is what a guru should tell you – always – that you must get your Self-realization. But there are much cleverer gurus than this one is. There are many cleverer ones, who tell you, all right, you become something else. So we have four types of awareness within us, we can say. One is at the lower side, where we are just animals. At the stage, where is this red mark, we are carbon. Just a carbon, carbon gives you life, without carbon you cannot get life. So this is carbon is here. Then the orange one that you see there, is the one that goes round and round. There’s a mistake in coloring. This is a yellow one, this is yellow and that is green.
Sahaja Yogi: This is green.
Shri Mataji: And that is blue, blue and that one is, is a wrong name, it’s just now noticed, it’s all right.
Sahaja Yogi: That’s green, that should be blue.
Shri Mataji: Blue, and that should be what you call dhu, dhu means smokey, smokey color.
Sahaja Yogi: that one’s correct.
Shri Mataji: It’s a little mistake, doesn’t matter. All right, so the other gurus can do other tricks, is to put you to another kind of awareness, like they can make you into an animal. Like some people I’ve seen seen pictures that they make you jump, jump, jump then you start shouting and screaming like animals, you start barking like dogs and behaving like frogs and all sorts of things you see, Rajnish does that. He’s done that to people. Now that’s one way. Some can drive you to the left side. Left side people are those who go into clairvoyance and use spirits. Left side is our collective subconscious, where everything that is dead is lying there. And that’s a very dangerous zone because, so far, I have noticed that all people who suffer from diseases like cancer and you name all of them.
Sahaja Yogi: Poliomyelitis, osteomyelitis, all these, muscular dystrophy, multiple sclerosis.
Shri Mataji: All these, these come from the problem of the left side, can you believe it? From the left side, means if you take to clairvoyance or if you go to a guru, he practices the left side, means he uses dead spirits and all that, then you get these diseases. Then there are some who put you to the right side. For example, they make you extra intelligent, and extra clever and there’s another spirit that sits on you, very ambitious person and all sorts of things. They also, after all, after some time you’ll get tired, you can become like a cabbage and you just don’t know, you can’t face life, you become a recluse and you are away from the society, you are good for nothing. So there are two types of people, in the left hand side people people make you feel very small that you are a sinner and you must say, like confess, or something like that, showing you down that you are good for nothing. The other ones pamper your ego and take you to the other side. So you have two other areas also, one is the collective subconscious and another is the collective supraconscious. But where we have to go is the super consciousness. This is the ascent, we have to, not to go sideways or downwards but we have to ascend, to ascend means what? What have you to achieve as an ascent? It means you yourself develop powers of giving ascent to others because you become a higher person than the rest of the people. Like one fish first came out of the water, then two, three fishes came out, then about twelve might have and then many shoals of fishes started coming out because these are the few fishes which pulled them out. They went ahead and they pulled them out. In the same way, you have to become a higher personality, and as soon as you become higher personality, I don’t have to tell you that you should be virtuous, you must do that, you just become, just become. What is the difference between a great man and a small man, is just this: that the great man has already achieved that state, where his virtues and his qualities are part and parcel of his life. You see? And the others are still fighting within. But by becoming the spirit you become so powerful that you don’t have to fight anything, you become completely integrated, you fight yourself actually all the time. For example, somebody would say: “Oh, I love to take drinks, I like to go to pubs, I like that, of course bad for my liver I have a bad liver but what to do, I like it, how can I give up?” That doesn’t happen after realization; you just do what is good for you, what is going to give you complete joy. So this is what one should ask for, not for anything like diamonds and things like that. But this is more serious than that. It’s not only diamonds, I don’t mind, you can give smuggled diamonds, blue diamonds, makes no difference but it’s much more serious. If it were only diamonds I am not interested but it’s much more. Much more than that, it’s very injurious, very injurious. And the serious matter, gradually as you’ll grow in Sahaja Yoga and sensitive you will become, you can feel it, who is the real and who is the unreal and then you’ll be amazed at what sort of people are going about as gurus. They are nowhere near God, they are all anti-God. They are anti-Christ, anti-God people.
Sahaja Yogi: Last night you were raising the kundalini of the people in the room. Last night in the hall.
Shri Mataji: Ya.
Sahaja Yogi: Why didn’t I feel a great feeling of bliss?
Shri Mataji: You did not?
Sahaja Yogi: No.
Shri Mataji: You will.
Sahaja Yogi: Why when everyone says if the Kundalini comes in you have a turn of heart.
Sahaja Yogi: It’s a incredible feeling.
Shri Mataji: You got it?
Sahaja Yogi: No no, I didn’t. I’m wondering why, if that happened?
Shri Mataji: You see there can be many reasons but I need not tell you, should I, why to make you nervous about it? I’ll just get it done.
Shri Mataji: Doctors don’t tell you had this trouble or that trouble, do they? Why should he, if I know how to cure you? I’ll just cure you, finished. Why should you worry, why you didn’t feel or anything. you should feel it, all right? That’s between you and Me. But not to worry, why I didn’t feel, what happened. There must be something, no doubt, but doesn’t matter, it’s nothing important, is it? To you, is it? No no, later on you will know. First of all you get your realization. You see, first of all you must get your realization, that’s more important. Then, you will know yourself, what was wrong with you, why you didn’t get it. Now if you ask Warren he will tell you that he was arguing Me all the time within himself, you see, but he wouldn’t say that to Me. You are doing the same but there are some other things also… Yes, my child.
Sahaja Yogi: How would one of your disciples…
Sahaja Yogi: Could you speak up for Mother?
Sahaja Yogi: How would, or how could a disciple or a seeker deal with a person who is possessed? who has difficulty, who has blockages within himself, how could a disciple of yours deal with a person like this? What would be a good way?
Shri Mataji: Oh, there are so many ways. Mother: Yes of course, there are so many ways by which they deal. That is what I have to teach you, that’s why I am here, to counsel you on that, isn’t it? That I’ll teach you how to do it. But. First of all you must get completely strong enough. And you must know all the ways and methods of protecting yourself. So the main interest of the Mother is in Her own children, to begin with, and then once they are so well equipped they can go to other people, no harm. Then they can look after. But there are other ways also indirectly helping you, so I’ll teach you all those things one by one, all right?
Sahaja Yogi: That’s what I’m more interested in. Mother: Yes yes yes.
Sahaja Yogi: Indirect way.
Shri Mataji: Yes indirectly it’s, we will tell you.
Shri Mataji: That can be done. Indirect ways should be used first of all. Then direct ways because indirect ways are easier and you are not sort of harmed by that. To begin with. Later on then, once you are strong, you are never harmed but you have to be strong person because you get involved into situations, you see, specially if you have to treat your own mother, own father, own brother, then it’s even in worse, you see.
Shri Mataji: Is that the case?
Sahaja Yogi: No, I had been pointed out that I had certain possessions and things and in fact when it was pointed out to me, I became very frightened.
Shri Mataji: Yesterday?
Sahaja Yogi: No it was some time ago, six months maybe, I am not sure.
Shri Mataji: Who told you? Yogini: Friend of mine.
Shri Mataji: She is a realized soul?
Sahaja Yogi: I think so. She is My disciple?
Sahaja Yogi: I am not sure.
Shri Mataji: How can she say that? That’s not allowed in Sahaja Yoga to say to anyone like that. Unless and until that person becomes aware of it, you don’t say that. Because why frighten a person, for nothing at all? If she has done, if she is a disciple of Mine, I am surprised, you are not to tell people like that. But, slowly you can introduce and tell that this is to be done to get well, all right? Have you been to some guru?
Sahaja Yogi: No, I had certain visions and things that just came to me, when I was a bit younger. What sort of visions?
Sahaja Yogi: Little people, I saw little people, and what I was led to believe were nature spirits. I didn’t want to see them, it just happened.
Shri Mataji: But you’ve been to some clairvoyant person or someone?
Sahaja Yogi: I think he claimed he was clairvoyant, but I knew he wasn’t.
Shri Mataji: Must be something like that.
Sahaja Yogi: So I didn’t believe him.
Shri Mataji: You see they’re all like that. Clairvoyance is not a very great thing. If he says he’s clairvoyant, then he must be. See if you go to these people, they push you to the left or to the right and you can see like that, you see they can they can go to any extent. Those who go to left side can see lots of things. Example I’ll give you: a gentleman, who was one of our trustees, he was bringing another fellow who was mentally disturbed. He went to the station and this fellow did not arrive so he was rather upset. So he went to the post office to telephone. The phone was out of order, so another gentleman said there’s a house there, you can go and ask them. They’ll allow you to telephone. So when this telephoning the fellow came out and he said, “Why do you want to telephone to this man?” He told that, “I know you want to take him to Mother but you should not because Mother is doing a very great work, why do you want to take this fellow to her? Why do you want to trouble her?” He was surprised, how did he know all about this. They can read your minds. And he said, “No it’s better that you go. Take this man to a temple somewhere outside Bombay and go and take one coconut and see the person who is in charge of the temple.” So when he went with that coconut there, with this gentleman, he started telling all the stories without… They all were amazed both of them, how did they know all about it? So he took that coconut from him. And he said, “With this you have to give hundred rupees each.” So they gave hundred rupees first to him. And it started off like that, you see. Till one day I came back from London. And I saw this and I said, “Where have you been?” He was just shaking before Me like this. So he said to know one, there was one gentleman in the temple, thing this that thing, I said, “What ? How did you do that? Why should you go to that place?” You see they can read minds and things. And ultimately that fellow never got cured, they lost all their money and this one died of heart. So it’s a very common practice in India, everywhere, everywhere I find this a very common practice to use these spirits. Here also I find lots of people are going to these clairvoyant women and clairvoyant men and all that. It’s very dangerous thing, one should not deal with that area which we do not know. Is a very common thing and apart from that you see like this – we have pentecostals, and that’s all this same thing. We have pentecostals doing that ho ho ho ho ho ho stuff. Is nothing but that, because after all, if you have to get realized you become a decent person, isn’t it? You become a sensible person, a saner person, a wiser person. You don’t become a stupid fellow or you don’t become an absurd and obtuse personality you don’t develop, isn’t it? We must also know that all such obtuse people cannot be realized souls, you see. They are funny faces, funny looking eyes and they are so greedy and they have no virtues, nothing, how can they be godly people? You should judge them by the way they live, by the style they live. You see a good man lives in a way that is very decent, decorous. Isn’t it? Is the smallest thing that we should understand is that when God resides within us, when there is light, you see in every walk of such a man there is light. You should have compassion, love, if he’s a hot-tempered fellow, furious style then how can, how can he be claim to be godly? We must use our brains, but when they come to Me only that time they start using in the other direction. Because you’re free to use. It’s all right, I am happy in a way that you use it because you should be free to use it. But not to great extent also because you miss the point. And we are still worried about your realization, isn’t it?
Sahaja Yogi: No it’s just that, so, you know all the different gurus
Sahaja Yogi: and all the different writings of gurus
Sahaja Yogi: say that, you know, when Kundalini rises –
Sahaja Yogi: if it rises – that when this happens is a, you know
Sahaja Yogi: great [?] or whatever you want to call it.
Shri Mataji: They are all,
Sahaja Yogi: It just happens, that happens.
Sahaja Yogi: If it rises.
Shri Mataji: You see, because they don’t know the job, they don’t know the job.
Shri Mataji: How can they claim they can raise the Kundalini? They don’t know the job, not only that, they are anti-god people, How can they raise Kundalini, you just tell Me? A person who has no authority from God, how can he raise the Kundalini? It’s a very recent thing, all also this is about fifty years back only people have started writing all this nonsense. And ancient books nobody reads, that’s the trouble is. If you read Markandeya, who wrote in fourteen thousand years back. He never said such a thing like that. He said, “Mother can do it.” Adishankaracharya in the sixth century said. I think Kabira was about, must be sixteenth century.
Sahaja Yogi: It’s fifteen hundreds, yes.
Shri Mataji: Ya, sixteenth century Kabira was, he said it so clearly. Nobody said all these things, but if you read a German you see writing about Kundalini or if you read some other gurus these pseudo gurus, they will say it because they don’t know the job at all. There are not supposed to do it, so they are frightened to talk about it. And those even who say, even Muktananda, for example, said that he can raise the Kundalini, but look at him now. He has got, he’s died with leaving sixty thousand crores. I don’t know the Indian. 60,000 crores worth of diamonds he has left. and both of the disciples are fighting among themselves. There was a fellow who came to see Me who has been with him for sixteen years. He’s here now, where is he? He’s somewhere, Melbourne he is, he’s in Melbourne. Poor man! You see, he he was buying a ticket from a agency, who the owner of which is My disciple. And he said “I am going now to India to meet this another lady, Anandamayi Ma.” So got such a fright, he said “Why are you going see her?” Because this gentleman Mehrotra’s parents are ruined because of Anandamayi Ma. He said “don’t go and see her, why do you want to go?” He said, “No I was with Muktananda for sixteen years and what I am left with is no money, no brains, nothing. I am a cabbage. I am good for nothing.” Sixteen years! So he said “all right, You go to Mother and you just go and see her.” And he just walked into My house. That day I was having a very big dinner in My house, he just came and he said “such and such a person has sent me, Mother, I have been sixteen years with him and I have to catch a plane in the evening.” I said, “Now. I have to cook for so many people, what am I to do?” “All right,” I said, “I’ll talk to you.” And I was amazed, the way he was ruined, you know. He was a rich man, he lost all his money, everything. But what people are enamored with, I just don’t understand. He said, “what does he do, he used to make everyone jump.” Now to make you jump is it, is it difficult? Anybody can jump. You should see his own lifestyle. All those gurus who have talked and you have read are mostly these modern pseudo ones, who know that there is market; also they have taken their birth. What will they gain? Nothing. They will go to hell, that’s all I can say. They have made money out of simple seekers, who are truthful, who are honest. What’s going to happen to them? But say, supposing it is, I say it is so simple, so why not accept it? What’s wrong in it, all right? Because they have said it is difficult, so must you accept that? But because I say it is simple you should accept Me. On the contrary. isn’t it? If I say there’s a diamond free for you, absolutely free, easily available. Will you stop not taking it? You will. That’s what it is, it has to be simple. You just logically you understand, you are intelligent people. Anything that is vital has to be simple, has to be easy. God is not going to make your life miserable, will He? Why? He’s trying to make you so comfortable, so happy. Why will He make you miserable? Logically you reach that point. These people do want you to be miserable and them to be happy. That’s a different point. All right? So first you get your realization and then we’ll talk about it. Hm? Now don’t oppose it with your mind, just forget it. Whatever you have read is of no use, just now. You should think that I have gained nothing out of that. I mean if they cannot do it why are they talking about it? First of all ask them this question. You better shut up then, if you don’t know the job better keep quiet, isn’t it? Like a doctor who says I can’t operate. I can’t do anything about you, I can’t cure, it’s very difficult. So why are you a doctor? Nobody will do that, in a profession. Only in this horrible profession, people do like that. To make everything look so horrid and so difficult. It is not. As I told you that people have worked for you, have done the job for you. They have done it for you. Christ has done, Rama has done, Krishna has done. Everybody has worked it out in you. You are just ready to receive the result of their work. All right? So don’t worry about what others are saying. Better have it yourself. Heh? Now who else is there? Any other question?
Shri Mataji: Who?
Sahaja Yogi: Who are the Sat Gurus?
Shri Mataji: There are many, there are many Sat Gurus in India. And what they tell Me is this, that “Mother it’s difficult to convince people. They always take to falsehood, they’re more fond of falsehood than of reality. They have always tortured the real people and even now they torture us.” With very great difficulty I sent one to America. He ran away within three days, because he couldn’t bear it. He said their brains are placed the other way round, you see. They don’t understand God, they understand money. They understand dollar. To them, dollar is their God. So he ran away within three days, you see he wouldn’t stick on to the place. Because they just have no patience with people, they just don’t understand what quality of human beings these are, that they can’t understand God and things like that. Because they have achieved a very great height of purity. They can’t bear impurity of others. You need a mother to have that patience and love. There are many. And I meet them, they come and see Me. There are many like that. If there is somebody who is a real guru, you can make it out from the disciple also. The other day I met someone, who had a guru called Shantanand, who knows about Me, already told them. They all know about Me, even in Rangoon. There was a fellow, whom somebody went to see and he, he knew about Me. It’s surprising. They know, because this is all predicted. All has been predicted. Very ancient times, say Bhrigu Muni was there, who lived about twelve thousand or fourteen thousand years back. He has written about this, that this is going to happen, that this is going to work out, the Kundalini is going to be raised. Have you got the book of Yogi Mahajan?
Sahaja Yogi: No, we don’t have it Mother. We, they couldn’t find another copy.
Shri Mataji: Is has he got only one copy? But he sold so many books, he was saying.
Sahaja Yogi: “Really?”
Shri Mataji: Yogi Mahajan.
Sahaja Yogi: That publication?
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes.
Sahaja Yogi: I didn’t ask him actually, I asked in Maharashtra.
Shri Mataji: Oh, of that, of that. Yes the original book is of course original book is only one copy they have, but yogi Mahajan has written in his book at the end of it.
Sahaja Yogi: Oh, have we got the copy of that book? Yes, we’ve got that. Now this Yogi Mahajan is a person who was not a realized soul. But he felt for people and tried to organize an ashram and all that, and he was calling people to his ashram. But once he got realization he changed himself completely. He knew that this was the truth and he just changed. And now he’s a great Sahaja Yogi. He has an ashram in Dharamshala.
Sahaja Yogi: There are a number of other books which you can pick up later once you get established in realization. This is one of them.
Shri Mataji: At the end of it, he said he’s put something. Gavin has put or someone?
Shri Mataji: Out of that book, can you read it out.
Sahaja Yogi: Nadi Granth.
Shri Mataji: Yes you read out. Now the whole chapter is also on this subject.
Sahaja Yogi: OK.
Shri Mataji: It’s
Sahaja Yogi: OK.
Shri Mataji: You see it’s a very small chapter.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes yes OK.
Shri Mataji: Yes, just see this.
Sahaja Yogi: In the period of distress about the fiftieth century B.C., Lord Krishna came to uphold Dharma, and He stated in the Bhagavad Gita: Whenever there is a decline in righteousness and a rise in unrighteousness, then I send forth Myself. And indeed in the age of darkness 2000 years ago Christ came forth to save mankind. He too said, I will pray to the father and He should give you another comforter, that He may abide with you forever. What could be a more troubled period than ours, when there is a crying need for the savior? Will He not come? But the divine blessing is on mankind, and as promised She has come as Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi. It was prophesized. The manifestation of the spiritual reality in the modern world has been foreseen by realized seers and sages since ancient times. In America, Jean Dickson predicted the birth of the coming Avatar or divine incarnation in about 24…in 1924. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi was born on the 21st of March 1923. In England, William Blake prophesized very clearly in his poetry the coming age when men of God would become Prophets, empowered to make others Prophets. Sahaja Yogis giving realization to the guru tattwa in others. Many of the places specifically mentioned by Blake have proved to be closely connected with the development of Sahaja Yoga in England, especially the Vale of Lambeth, where the first Ashram was established, and other locations connected with the various residences of Shri Mataji. Among all the ancient writers of astrological prediction, the greatest master is Bhrigu rishi, who lived more then 2000 years ago. His two great treatises…
Shri Mataji: 2000 years ago! That’s wrong.
Sahaja Yogi: It’s incorrect is it? Yes, it should be twelve thousand. …His two great treatises, The Bhrigu Samhita and the Nadi Granth, written on the leaves of lotus palm describe respectively the horoscope of the man according to the the combinations and permutations of stars at his birth, and the future world events of spiritual significance. At the present time when so many are seeking the new age and so many self-certified teachers and masters are floating enterprises of all kinds, to attract the seekers, it would help if we tallied the descriptions given in ancient prophecies against the modern reality. Thus. we should be able to recognize the incarnation, described by our Lord Jesus Christ, as the redeemer, the counselor, the comforter, who will instruct in all things concerning sin and judgment. Many have predicted that this incarnation will be an expression of the female aspect, The Holy Spirit, or Adi Shakti of Indian tradition. These ancient writings are replete with proofs of the advent of Shri Mataji as the saviour of modern times. Her person, her teachings, and the Nirmala Vidya, which means pure Knowledge, which She teaches, are the fulfillment of these prophecies. The clearest of these indications are contained in Bhrigu’s Nadi Granth, which was edited with Marathi commentary by another sage, Bhujender?
Shri Mataji: Bhujender.
Sahaja Yogi: Bhujender, about 300 years ago. According to the Nadi Granth, it stated that in 1970 a new transformation in human consciousness will commence.
Shri Mataji: It will start.
Sahaja Yogi: The [ ] period, the period preceding Kali yuga, and Kali yuga itself will end. Kali yuga is the age of darkness. That period will end after the death of a yogi in 1922, and that was probably Sai Nath.
Shri Mataji: Ya. A great Maha Yogi will take birth. This Maha Yogi will be an incarnation of the Holy Ghost and will embody all the divine powers of God, or the Parabrahma. That is, She will be the one that controls the divine power. That yogi will have the Shakti, or the power, of doing or not doing. In previous ages, seekers of truth had to take had to take to devotion, or Bhakti, or knowledge, or gyana, Patanjali Yoga and all such different method and disciplines in order to achieve the joy of Moksha, or liberation. Thus they could achieve the fulfillment of their heartfelt duty of life and get their hearts’ meaning. In those days, one had to undergo a very severe type of penance in order to awaken the sleeping spiritual energy of Kundalini and to make it ascend through the different subtle centers.
Shri Mataji: Your question is answered, all right?
Sahaja Yogi: But by the grace of the unprecedented method introduced by this Maha Yogi, the seekers will be able to achieve the joy of Moksha in their own lifetime, spontaneously, and they will be able to see the rising of Kundalini. There will be no need to give up the body by living Samadhi, but… which means a method adopted of shutting oneself in a cave and dying there while in meditation… but by the capacity of the yoga, one will even be able to achieve victory over death. There will be neither need to leave the body nor to think of your rebirth. The realized soul through this yoga will not have to worry about food, clothing or shelter. In other words, you’ll be well cared for. Diseases and mental sickness will be completely destroyed and such people will not need the institutions known as hospitals anymore. They will have a power to develop a subtle body and the other powers that will be given to them. And that’s the end of the quotation, and this was written 12,000 years ago.
Shri Mataji: Nadi Granth. That it will start in nineteen… because you see, the whole thing was in Sanskrit language, so it had to be again translated to be brought up to date. Because, if it was written so old as that, in our way of saying that what year it is, he, so he brought the whole calculation and he said it will start in 1970. And it really started in 1970, this work of Mine, started in 1970. I mean there are so many ways by which one can understand. But in the intermediate period of this fifty years, all these people came up, they wrote books and things like that. Writing books takes nothing. I have not written any book so far. I mean this is, I’m hearing for the first time, what they have written. But I have seen this Nadi Granth before, with My own eyes.
Sahaja Yogi: But only a couple of years ago, they showed it to You.
Shri Mataji: Yes, they showed Me about two years back. And I saw this book only, when we were in Sholapur.
Sahaja Yogi: I think it was last year, last year.
Shri Mataji: Yes, last year. Last year they showed Me this book. But I’ve read this in Marathi language. But this one is done by another, that Yogi Mahajan, who has put few things… William Blake was another…
Sahaja Yogi: I’ll just finish, because it’s interesting about your birth, Mother. Every one of these predictions is fulfilled in the life and work of Mataji Nirmala Devi. She was born at the geographical center of India, in a hill station known as Chindwara exactly at noon on the 21st of March, 1923, the day of the spring equinox when day and night are equal. On the 5th of May 1970, in fact, Shri Mataji introduced the method of Sahaja Yoga, by which realization is achieved effortlessly and without any penances or fasting, let alone living death from the part of the seeker.
Shri Mataji: En masse, is the point.
Sahaja Yogi: The spirit manifests as the the witness state and man conquers his appetite through detachment. Thousands have seen the rising of Kundalini and the pulsing of the different Chakras when Shri Mataji awakens the secret powers of the seven centers. This happening is one which happens to people en masse, and we have seen thousands of people at one time gain their self-realization. C G Jung spoke of a collective unconscious common to all mankind, when he himself had glimpsed through his own dreams and insights, and those of his patients. He also knew and taught that this collective realm is only to be attained by a maturing process of self-realization, casting off illusions and imaginings which hide the collective reality and hinder its realization into collective consciousness with the dawning of a new awareness. Sahaja Yogis know that this describes how Kundalini herself records her own history and carries the scars of our self- inflicted injuries. All this knowledge becomes an open book after Self-realization and aids the recovery of the subject. It is true also that as one establishes one’s realization by giving it to others, so also material problems of income, food and shelter all miraculously are solved. This we have seen and experienced, it’s a fact. The vibratory knowledge is an absolute knowledge. Shri Mataji Herself never consults any books but radiates innate knowledge on every subject with astonishing insight and understanding. Nirmala Devi Sahaja Yoga is beyond rational thought, it is like the sprouting of a seed into a great big tree, you cannot explain it. Now we have to proclaim that this is the fulfillment of the ancient prophecies, this is the revelation and the testament of modern times.
Shri Mataji: I didn’t even have time to read this. All right. So, that’s it. All right? Now. Yes?
Sahaja Yogi: Excuse me would you like to comment on books like Yoga Vashishtha.
Shri Mataji: Yoga Vashishta is, you see Yoga Vashishta and all these books are written at a time, you see, when we had a certain pattern of life. Ancient times, you see. Vashishtha was at the Rama’s time. So it was about eight thousand years back, you can say. About. And the pattern of life he had, even Rama’s life was like that, that children who were about five years of age were sent to a guru in a forest. And they were kept absolutely in a very pure relationship and a pure understanding of life. In complete purity. So much so that every university was called as Gotra, gotra. Means, is the, that’s your forefather’s place. Now everybody in India today also has a gotra, and they never marry among the same gotras, means, you see My forefathers who belong to one gotra, nobody can, I cannot marry a person who belongs to the same gotra. So the celibacy is maintained to that limit, that we are brothers and sisters. Now thousands of years back also we are still brothers and sisters. It’s like that. In those days, you see, all these things were sort of practiced, all these patanjali Yoga, Yoga Vashishtha and all these things were practiced, but that’s not so today. Today the time is very limited, the crisis is complete. You have to take to something fast, you see there’s emergency there. So those books were meant for those days, this was all right, but how many people got realization at that time? Very few. Only Nachiketa, one person, who was the disciple of Janaka, father of Sita. That’s all. One person got realization in those days. Rama didn’t give realization to anyone. He did not. Because that was not the time to give realization. Now today is the time to give realization. All right? So every book has its own place at that particular period. At the time of Christ, we needed a particular thing. Before that we needed Moses. Before that we needed other things. So whatever was needed at that particular time, that is how they tell it. All right? At this time what we need is realization My main attention is on giving you realization. Nothing else. That’s all. The first thing is that. Then other things will come. Now you’ll understand Yoga Vashishtha very well. Because those days people lead a very righteous life, they did not need anything to sustain themselves, that righteousness, that purity. They lived like that because the the whole system was built upon that. They lead a very nice life, celibate life of purity, not because they were forced or they were conditioned but because they lead in such circumstances all like brothers and sisters, that they never felt that way. They had very good concentrated married life and everything was arranged very well, but now that society is no more. All right? So how many of you felt the cool breeze yesterday, let’s see. That’s good.
Sahaja Yogi: How many did not? Did not: one, two, three.
Shri Mataji: Now first of all, have you got a guru before?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes well, she has.
Shri Mataji: Yes. What about you? Another seeker: I had Yogananda
Sahaja Yogi: Yogananda. Seeker: Seven years of TM and two and a half years of …
Shri Mataji: Doesn’t matter. What. Seeker: It really blew my…
Shri Mataji: I know, I know, I know, it is so. You don’t know people suffer from epilepsy this horrible TM business, you see. You pay for becoming mad. It’s that. What about you? Seeker: Ananda Murti.
Shri Mataji: Hmm? Seeker: Ananda Murti.
Shri Mataji: Ananda Marg.
Sahaja Yogi: Ananda Murti. Not Ananda Marga, was it? Seeker: Yeah.
Sahaja Yogi: Ananada Marg.
Shri Mataji: Hmm. Seeker: …
Shri Mataji: That’s hard. We have people, now his own wife has come to Me, she is a Sahaja Yogini. His own wife. Last time she got her realization, when we were in Delhi. She tried for three years, his own wife, his own people who are in Calcutta, and she went and told him also that you better take to better life now, you have done a lot of things. But you see he cannot change himself, cannot change. That Sarkar who was his right hand, first he came to see Me. I was in a hotel. He came to see Me with a police escort, and my husband was quite surprised, he said “what’s this going on here?” I said, “I don’t know why he has come with the police escort.” Actually he was the one first who ran away from Calcutta, went to Lucknow and took a jeep and then came to Delhi and then he came to see Me. Now he’s all right, but later on he was threatened. He and his wife both were threatened. So he wanted to come to England but somehow or other this all subsided. Now the wife of this Anand Marg came to Me. She’s got realization. So that’s what, it solves the problem, all right? Doesn’t matter. Whatever has happened has happened, doesn’t matter. You better get your realization. What about you, you felt the cool breeze there, you two? Seeker: The only thing I felt was a very heavy weight in both my whole arms. Yes, you have been doing Hatha Yoga, isn’t it? Seeker: Ya we’ve been doing Hath Yoga for eighteen months.
Shri Mataji: That’s why. Hatha Yoga also is the same thing, you see. Hatha yoga is just a part, a wee part of it, you see. We too do Hatha Yoga, but after realization, and according to the Kundalini’s movement, you see, where the Kundalini is, not before that. Because it is absurd, you see, to do anything, any medicine… Come here come, come, come, come, come forward, come forward it’s all right, come forward yes, yes. So this Hatha Yoga also is like taking all the medicines without any discrimination. Seeker: Swami Venkatesananada, he died recently.
Shri Mataji: Who?
Sahaja Yogi: Swami Venkatesananada, he died recently. Seeker: He died in South Africa.
Shri Mataji: What did he teach you?
Sahaja Yogi: In South Africa.
Shri Mataji: What did he teach you, this, Hatha Yoga, means physical exercises? Seeker: Have you not heard of him? He’s very famous.
Sahaja Yogi: He said, have you not heard of him? He’s very famous.
Shri Mataji: Or notorious? Seeker: No, no he’s a very, a very spiritual man, travels all over the world.
Shri Mataji: No he’s not. Because you should have got another experience, if he was really so. See, those who talk of physical being too much is not a real person. You see? This is not an acrobatic play, is it? Just to become something in the circus. We have to be human beings first of all. Seeker: He speaks of the enlightenment. Is there enlightenment in realization, is that a different thing?
Shri Mataji: They can speak, what they achieve is that you felt happy. Otherwise if you feel this way, the heaviness and all that, then that’s not realization at all, isn’t it? All right? They are very notorious one by one. But thank God they are all getting exposed, you see. Ten years back when I told them all about them, they were all all up in arms against Me. And people warned Me they are going to kill Me. I said, “Let them try.” None of them filed a suit against Me. I told their names, and I told everything of them, none of them… Because falsehood has cowardice in it. They are cowards. They know they are doing wrong things. Seeker: Swami Shivananada was he the same, was he in the wrong?
Shri Mataji: Who is this?
Sahaja Yogi: Swami Shivananada.
Shri Mataji: What did he do? Shivananada also, what did he do, see now? What has he done? On the contrary, he is the one who was denied by some gurus in the Himalayas because he was no good. So he came down and started teaching all kinds of exercises, but he never did any exercise himself. Made others do all the exercises of the world. And then another is that, what’s her name is, Yogi Shakti Maa. She’s another person. There is nothing in them, all hollow personalities. You are thousand times better than them. Seeker: And the Dalai Lama, is he in the same… You see, there was a book, being written about something and they wanted to have an introduction of Dalai Lama, to that book. But Indians said don’t put his name, otherwise it won’t sell in India. We don’t like him, he is like a parasite. He was a parasite in Tibet, now he has come as parasite here. They are all parasites, they are supraconscious people, that’s all. What good he has done to anyone? Living freely at the cost of that poor country Tibet and now in India, you see, there was a parliament question about him. Why should we support this man and his paraphernalia, which has run away from there. We should find out what they have done, what they talk about. Seeker: So all these gurus are… Modern times there are many who are true gurus also. But they are not in the market. They are not in the market now. This Dalai Lama fellow has had a doctor with him, who used to do all kinds of things and
Sahaja Yogi: He is dead now?
Shri Mataji: Thank God, he’s dead. And he really ruined people, this doctor you know, he used to give some sort of a …, I don’t know what he gave to these people who went to him, but they came to Me afterwards and they were all sick, all sick people. People don’t like him in India. If you take Dalai Lama’s name they say, all right, you are one of them, they think something wrong there. You see, because from outside how will you know? How will you know? Simple thing as that.
Sahaja Yogi: would you say Krishnamurti was a true guru or a false guru? Now Krishnamurti was another one. Now see, you’ve read Krishnamurti?
Sahaja Yogi: He’s had a great deal of…?
Shri Mataji: That’s the problem. See now, Krishnamurti what he said, was that, he tried to be very honest about things, and he said that there is no true guru, you have to be your own guru. It’s not true. Of course there are fake gurus but there are good gurus also. You see, there has to be somebody real to create artificial, isn’t it? If you see an artificial flower, there has to be a real flower, otherwise how do you get your ideas? This is a very big mistake, and that’s how everyone who has read you see, thinks, thinks, thinks, thinks, and you just see what happens to you. You become mad, thinking like that. You see some people talk like him nowadays, just talk like him. There’s nothing inside. You see My, My point is.
Sahaja Yogi: I got a personal audience with him and I asked him, why does he do what he does, and his answer was: “Does a rose ask why?”
Sahaja Yogi: He’s a very beautiful thinker, but I don’t…
Shri Mataji: You see thinking is not going to lead you there just understand. You can also think, you could be a more beautiful thinker, but makes no difference. Because what you have to do is to logically reach a point. See thinking is just to logically reach a point and then ascend, you see that is for proper thinking, is to understand, what to expect. Denying everyone is not proper. You must have discretion, you must have discretion. And there has to be somebody true also. You see this is complete negative business, that deny everyone. Yogini: I have a question. I believe that this is a very true way of sustaining the chakras and keeping them in order in order to make your kundalini grow. Could you, would you say that there are many ways to have realization…
Shri Mataji: No.
Sahaja Yogi: …by yourself, on you own?
Shri Mataji: No, there is no other way. Only Kundalini awakening is the only way. You must reach the logical conclusion also there. Because, you see, that’s how we are made. You see, in an instrument is there any other way but to connect this to the mains? Nothing. It has to be connected to the mains. Is there any other way that the seeds sprouts? Is the same thing, is all everyone is made like that, now somebody, if somebody laughs, like crying, then you will say he’s absurd. Normally you laugh, the way everyone laughs, isn’t it? In the same way the Kundalini rises, the way it rises. That’s the only way, there is no other way out, no other way out. Everybody who has got realization has got through Kundalini awakening.
Sahaja Yogi: Yoganandra, of course, has gone to his mahasamadhi, but do You feel whether he were realized or not? He was trying to teach self-realization. Do you feel, Do you feel it isn’t on, once the person is dead?
Shri Mataji: What’s it? When you are dead then you get samadhi.
Sahaja Yogi: That he cannot be a guru, because he’s dead? Different
Sahaja Yogi: Can he still be a guru, even after his death? Assuming he, assuming even though he got, he was not a realized soul, but he did contribute something to teaching…
Shri Mataji: No.
Sahaja Yogi: …He took mahasamadhi after death, can he be a teacher?
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, if he is not a realized soul he has no business to be there, first of all.
Sahaja Yogi: He’s a teacher, he was almost using the same words you just used.
Shri Mataji: No but they can say the same things, My child, you see, they can say the same thing, they, because it is written. It’s written everywhere. You see even if you go to a church the priest says the same thing. Saying is not the main thing. Is whether he is a realized soul or not. Apart from realized soul, there are many realized souls also. Now, for example, in Sahaja Yoga if you come, you get your realization, you are a realized soul. But are you a master of that or not? That is very important. Unless and until you have a entered into the kingdom of God, you have no authority to talk about it. Say, I will tell you a very simple example. Now, supposing on the road you find a man standing and saying go this way and go that way. If he’s a policeman, you will listen to him, but if he is not a policeman you’ll say, “You who are you, you are mad? Why are you telling me?” They have no authority to do it. All right? That’s why, whether he is dead or living, they call “We have got mahasamadhi,” this is not true, they cannot. They can only posses you. That’s all. Because the realized soul does not possess, only these people can possess. You see, the teaching can be in a priest can say the same thing in a church. Anybody can do it, but they are not realized souls, is the point, how you do it. It becomes a conditioning on you. You see? If a person who is not a realized soul and does not give you realization, it becomes a conditioning for him. It’s not reality. You take it because you think it’s good. Rationally you think it’s a good thing, rationally, that you should do a good thing, and all that. But doesn’t help much. What helps you the most is that you become capable of it. That you enjoy it, it becomes your second nature. It becomes part and parcel of you.
Sahaja Yogi: There’s another one, Vivekananda wrote thousands of books in India.
Shri Mataji: But what has he given?
Sahaja Yogi: He gave nothing, except this…
Shri Mataji: All, you see, we know, because those who know, know Vivekanada very well, because those who have read the original books know that he has taken from other books and said something. So it nothing special, you see. You people only know Bible, supposing, and somebody writes the thing on Bible, you won’t call him Vivekananda, you won’t. But because he writes about Vedas and all that which you have not read so you call him Vivekananada. That’s what it is. You see anybody can read those books and can write. Anyone can. There’s nothing so special.
Sahaja Yogi: In Perth we get ten day meditation courses, one is … by doctor Goenka.
Shri Mataji: You cannot have courses in this, My child. It’s a living process. You cannot have courses, you see. You cannot have courses. It’s all, there is another going those courses, what do you get? Nothing. Have you seen anybody getting realization? First thing if somebody can give you collective consciousness than you should believe that person. You see, it’s like, people think that we can pay for a course. I will give you another little story of My grandchildren. I have two granddaughters, who are from the first daughter and they are realized souls and born realized. So one day the little one, she was about three years, going to a kindergarden school, brought a paper to Me and said, “what is written grand Ma?” I said, “It is written that if you pay hundred Rupees and come for a course in this hotel then you can get your transformation.” She was first puzzled. She said, “How can you get transformation without Kundalini being awakened?” Little one, you see. But the another one then, [laughs], “but this courses business I cannot understand. My father has done fourteen courses of all sorts but his Kundalini doesn’t rise.” You see, they are simple, and they know the facts, they said by courses you cannot. There’s no course, we cannot have a course, we don’t have course in Sahaja Yoga actually. We don’t have. It’s, you should feel it, you should see it, you should work on other people, understand it, you see, it is the ‘Bodha’, is the awareness, that you develop about others. For example, supposing, how to make out a Dodge car? You can’t give a course on making out the cars, you see that. And then you know, this is a Dodge, this is Mercedes, this is this, this is that. But you give somebody a course, he won’t know. It’s simple as that, simple as that, you see. But then this, about God, you can’t have course. I can’t tell you one day, you become this too. This cannot be. May be, may not be, you see it’s a living force. May be his kundalini did not rise, yours has risen. Hers, his is not risen or somebody’s not risen, so we have to raise it. How can I give a general course like that? Now the fruits are, you can’t say that every flower will have a fruit on such and such time, such and such. Can you give a course to these flowers? It’s so simple you know, but we never, we take everything living for granted because we don’t know that we can play a part in that. So we shut away. But after realization you can. This is a living process. You cannot bound it, you cannot condition it, you cannot teach it. Nothing at all.
Sahaja Yogi: Sorry.
Shri Mataji: Yes?
Sahaja Yogi: “But each person has a different journey, right? For some people might be easier for them to be self-realized than other people.”
Shri Mataji: It is, it’s true, doesn’t matter. But I am here to solve the difficulties. All right? It’s all right, doesn’t matter.
Sahaja Yogi: But there are not different pathways.
Shri Mataji: Pathways is the same but some are going slow, some are going fast, some are going up and down, you see some go this way that way, all sorts we have, all samples. You will see that, one by one. It’s a big humor that you find sometimes how people move, you see. So itself will solve, doesn’t matter. But the path is the same. Path is the same, the ascent is the same. But some are caught up by the lower chakras, some are caught up by the higher chakras, and some have got too much of mental activity, they suck in the whole thing again. It’s all right, makes no difference, makes no difference. You see once you understand that you have the power to raise your Kundalini and correct yourself and if you understand how to do it, it’s very simple. You can work it out yourself. You see, if you are a mechanic of your car and you know the road, then there is no problem. Some are second hand cars, you see, like a French girl she used to come very often to Me from France so My husband once asked her, “Why, She has given you realization now, why do you bother Her every time?” So he is a shipping man, so she said, “Sir, sometimes you have second hand ships, sometimes you have got fifth hand ships.” So he said, “Then the practical thing is to srap them. That’s what we do in shipping.” But I said, “Not in Sahaja Yoga. we don’t scrap, that’s the only difference.” He said, “The practical thing in shipping is to scrap them.” But not in Sahaja Yoga, we don’t scrap. There are so many ways of working it out. So, should we have again? Let’s see. Are you feeling very hot there in the sun? You can come here. It’ll be not proper to sit in the sun too much also. Too much of sun is also not good, too much of anything is not good.
Sahaja Yogi: In fact, could people in the shade just squeeze together so others can be there? You come and sit here.
Shri Mataji: Hmm must be, quite hot.
Sahaja Yogi: It’s better to sit on the earth, if you can, because…
Shri Mataji: No no but it depends on, this won’t matter, this pillow. No no it’s all right, pillow is all right, if it is not made of nylon. Now, you just put your hands like this. I’ll have some water please, if at all… Just like this, your hands. Thank you Manmesh, thank you. He’s got it here. Thank you. All right. So you please have to close your eyes, put both the hands towards Me. What about the gentleman there? What’s the problem? He’s not well? All right, let him put his hands towards Me. Now watch your hands, you see if they are shaking. Watch your hands. Left side. All right? Or if there is heat, on one hand. Put them straight, straight like that. Hmmm? Now if the left is shaking, can you put your right hand on your heart, heart, if the left is shaking. I think yours is. Put on the heart. Take out some, there is some paper in your pocket? Yes please. Take it out. Yes please, Ya Right hand here on the heart. And if the right is shaking then you put your left hand on the stomach and right hand towards Me. If the right is shaking. Yours is left. Put your right hand on the heart. You are all right. Are you feeling cool breeze? Not yet? You are all right. Not yet? Don’t you worry. Keep your eyes shut, all right, all of you keep your eyes shut. Is very important that you keep your eyes shut. Hmm! Put your right hand on the heart, those who have been to the gurus. Please. Right hand on the heart. Hmm, first of all. To any guru you have been, you put your right hand to the heart first of all. Because your spirit is your guru and he resides in your heart. Now bring down the hand on your stomach, On the left hand side, all those who have been to gurus specially. And say that Mother I am my own guru. Just say that, you are your own guru.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother I am my own guru.
Shri Mataji: Mother I am my own guru.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother I am my own guru. Mother I am my own guru. Mother I am my own guru.
Shri Mataji: Ten times.
Sahaja Yogi: Ten times. Mother I am my own guru. Mother I am my own guru, Mother I am my own guru. Mother I am my own guru. Mother I am my own guru. Mother I am my own guru. Hmm! Better.
Shri Mataji: Don’t lock up your legs, just leave them loose. Don’t lock them. Let them loose. Yes, don’t lock them.\NSee, this gentleman, going to Krishnamurti. I think I should use Sindoor of Mine. Very bad Agnya.
Sahaja Yogi: Sindoor? Mother’s, no, bring Mother’s own.
Shri Mataji: No it’s all right, this will do
Sahaja Yogi: Will it do?
Shri Mataji: Hmm.
Shri Mataji: Let Me try with this, if it works out, hmm. Everybody’s Agnya is. So I am using something, just to turn your Agnya Chakra, you see. So that you don’t feel. I have to use this red because red frightens all the evil, just to frighten the ego.
Sahaja Yogi: Left Swadishthan, left Agnya, and right Agnya.\NIt’s still at Agnya. It’s still at Agnya, Left Agnya. It’s risen to Agnya…
Shri Mataji: How do you feel? Any cool breeze in your hands?
Shri Mataji: All right?