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Press Interview, Melbourne, Australia. 8 March 1983.
Sahaja Yogi: And Her family members and Herself were the victims of considerable oppression and even jailed, at the time when … prior to British withdrawal. Two thousand years ago?
Shri Mataji: So that was the calendar they started.
Sahaja Yogi: That was when it started.
Shri Mataji: It’s very ancient, even at the time of Shri Krishna.
Sahaja Yogi: It’s a most ancient lineage. She’s doing this spiritual work since 1970. The work She’s doing is granting en-masse Self-realization to seekers of truth. There is no organization, there is no money paid. We call ourselves Sahaja Yogis. We’re professional people, we’re business people, we’re ordinary members of the public who just conduct their lives in a perfectly normal way. And She is, I think, well known for being an outspoken critic of many of the false gurus that are purveying their ways in the marketplace today. So, She’ll tell you anything you wish to know about Her message and the work that She’s doing. Basically, it’s to put you in touch with your spirit so that you become a master of your own Self. You don’t depend upon a guru, you don’t depend slavishly upon any other external influence, but you become master of your Self. So without any further introduction I’d like you to meet Mataji Nirmala Devi.
Shri Mataji: Now, I think, we should have questions first.
Journalist: What is Self-realization and how do You grant it?
Shri Mataji: Self-realization is the epitome of our evolutionary process, which is a living process through which you achieve your higher Self. Even Darwin, who was an atheist, did say that as human beings have come so far they will achieve their absolute. So, to achieve your absolute means to get Self-realization. The purpose of our life, the meaning of our life is only achieved when we will get connected with the divine Power, which is all-pervading. Now, one need not believe in the divine Power, but you can see the manifestation of this living divine Power when you see a flower becoming a fruit. All living work is done by this divine Power. But we are not aware of it. At this human stage we are not aware of it. But once this happening takes place in your awareness … it’s not just suggesting that you become something great or on … on mental level, but actualization of this experience is felt in your awareness, on your central nervous system. You can feel that you have become — again I say, you have become, not told or brainwashed, but you have become — collectively conscious. Is a state where you can feel your Self inside and others’ too.
Now, the knowledge of this is the knowledge of the roots. Whatever we have achieved is the knowledge of the tree. But if the tree outgrows itself from its root, then it may die. So it is time that we should find out about the roots. And to know about that, we have to become a subtler being. At this human awareness you cannot. But sometimes it challenges the ego of people. They think, “Why not? I am such and such, why shouldn’t I know?” But you cannot. As you have to have a microscope to see things deeply, in the same way you have to have this new awareness within you, this dynamic awareness. Of course, the nature of Self is that it is collectively conscious, that it is the source of peace and bliss, that it is the truth and love. That’s the nature. And you become that. You become. It’s not only mental, but you really become. Because whatever is mental is artificial, man-made.
Journalist: And do You perceive this … this collective unconscious or this collective consciousness mentally?
Shri Mataji: Yes. The unconscious becomes conscious, means it comes into your central nervous system. It is within you. Everyone has said it: Christ has said it, Mohammed has said it, Buddha has said it, Mahavira has said it. Everyone has said the same thing. Like Lao-Tze, then, say, Zen system — everything has said that you are to be born again, there has to be some transformation within you. They didn’t tell us lies. But the trouble is people can use this for their own purpose and mislead others. That’s a different point. But logically, the disciples or the seekers also must know that you must feel your own powers, you must feel your Self. Otherwise what’s the use of just following somebody where you achieve nothing of your own? What did you achieve is the main point you should see.
Journalist: And how do You grant this Self-realization en masse?
Shri Mataji: Yes. That’s the only thing is new today, is that it can be done on mass level. That’s why in India it is called as Maha Yoga. Formerly it was done for one or two persons, but now on very mass level you can do it. We had once — they were there — six thousand people in a village called Khudus. All of them got realization. In India is very easy because they are not so complicated. But Indians take it for granted. They know what Sahaja Yoga is, they know what realization is. I mean, they are trained that way, or I should say they are conditioned that way, that they understand it faster. But when the Western people get it … they are sometimes difficult, but once they get it they are very deep and they think this is the solution, the only solution for all the calamities. So they work it out very seriously, and really, they are doing very good work.
Journalist: Is it harder to grant Self-realization to Westerners?
Shri Mataji: I used to think so, but the other day, in Adelaide, I was amazed that they got it without any difficulty. So many of them, there must be about three hundred people in that hall, it was all packed — and they all got it. So all My ideas about that also are now changing, that suddenly I’m meeting the right type of people, I think.
Journalist: But how is it that You actually give them this mass level of consciousness?
Sahaja Yogi: How do You do it, Mother?
Shri Mataji: How do I do it. As I said, it’s spontaneous. A seed, if you put it in the Mother Earth, it sprouts by itself. You cannot say how you do it. But … because you are just ready for it. It’s like one enlightened light can enlighten another light. Even if you put your hands towards Me like this, you can get it. It’s so simple. And then you can give it to others. Once you get it, you can give it to others.
Journalist: And with due respect, we get a lot of Eastern visitors to Australia now, with different prayer or different types of religion. But who do we know is leading us, and who do we know is misleading us?
Shri Mataji: You see, you must use your brains. For everything. God has given you a very good brain and logic. And logically, you must reach proper conclusion about your realization. First of all, you must truly find out whether you want your realization or not. Because if some people want to fly in the air, then I can’t give that. If some people want to have diamonds — that I can’t do, some sort of funny miracles that they do, all these tricks. So you have to be honest, first of all, about it. Secondly, you must know that this is Love of God and you cannot sell it in the market. You cannot purchase …(unclear) That’s one of a very important things one should know. Because they pamper your ego in a way that you are purchasing your guru, that he is in your pocket. That’s what one feels. But you cannot pocket the guru, guru has to be higher than you. Then you have to find out the lifestyle of such a guru. How is he? How he lives? Is he an honest man? Is he a righteous person? Or is he… You must find out the credibility of such a person. Apart from that, you must find out the credibility of the followers also, what are they doing. There are so many gurus who have got followers for eighteen years, sixteen years — and they are epileptic! If the guru can’t even look after their health, then what’s the use of having such a guru for yourself? But human beings are very competitive in certain things, it seems.
Journalist: Sorry, really?
They are very competitive, amusingly. Like, they see a person coming out of the pub, falling in the gutters, and they enter into the same pub. Sort of thing, you see. It’s sort of a competition that they get into. And they think, “Why, this man has gone to this guru, so I’ll go.” It’s a fashion! People talk, “Who is your guru?” And the other says, “This is my guru.” It’s … really, I can’t understand how people can do that.
Journalist: Yes, but, You see, it’s sprung up like that.
Shri Mataji: Yes. What I’m saying, this is a special time, a time of your resurrection, the time of your judgment. So, there is a need. There is a need. But people are so vulnerable and so naive, I would say, very naive, not to understand who is right and who is wrong. It’s very simple. People come out of the jail, wear a funny dress and go to America, sit in a square and start singing something funny. Everybody will: “Oh, look at him, what a very great…” Moreover, a kind of a inferiority complex, I think, people have who are householders. They think they are very selfish, they are rearing their children and looking after their household. It is not. It is one of the greatest jobs, is to be properly married and to have nice children. But if you see somebody wearing that dress — he “has given up everything in the world”, you see — you feel so enamored. It’s superficially you cannot judge it.
Journalist: Do You believe Yourself to be the (unclear)?
Shri Mataji: Beg your pardon?
Journalist: I asked that, do You believe Yourself to be the only true Guru or are there other organizations that offer enlightenment as well?
Sahaja Yogi: Do You believe that You are the only true guru and are there other organizations who offer enlightenment?
Shri Mataji: There are many true gurus also in India, it’s not true that I’m the only true guru. But I’m the only Mother, I should say. Because these true gurus, who are living in Himalayas and other places on the hills, don’t want to come down. They don’t want to mix with people. I sent one fellow with great coaxing and persuasion to America. He ran away within three days from there. He said, “They can’t understand, they are just the other way round people. They can’t understand God. They understand dollars.” So there are many gurus. And they recognize Me quite all right. That’s why when they say that “She is the … what did you say … greatest saint” or anything, is all said by these gurus, only have told them.
Journalist: What about in the West, do You think that they are — gurus or not gurus — but do You think that they are of religious organizations.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, some people have taken oaths, you see. It’s a good enterprise to make big money, you see. Now imagine, one guru has made six thousand crores of rupees. Now, crore is hundred and then … hundred and then … thousand…
Sahaja Yogi: Sixty.
Shri Mataji: Thousand and then…
Sahaja Yogi: Multi-billion.
Shri Mataji: Hundred thousand and then hundred of that is one crore. So six thousand crores of rupees he has made in India alone, God knows how much in the Swiss Bank. Another one has got fifty-nine Rolls-Royces. Another one who has run away from India has purchased three aeroplanes and thirty-five Rolls-Royces. They have a special liking for Rolls-Royce, I think. Seems so. One must understand that it’s a very big enterprise. Even Oberoi [owner of Oberoi Hotels] cannot afford it.
Journalist: You could say it’s got good knowledge of the marketplace.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Yes, they know, you see, they’re very clever. Not only, they have employed people to tell them about it. You see, they have employment of, also, publicity department. They have every sort of department. I mean, it’s a big enterprise.
Journalist: For being a guru.
Shri Mataji: Beg your pardon?
Journalist: Being a guru is a big enterprise.
Sahaja Yogi: Being a guru is a big enterprise.
Shri Mataji: Very big enterprise if you can venture it, really. I mean, some English people have tried it. They have been successful, but not so much as Indians. I think Indians are clever to do that job.
Sahaja Yogi: I’ve missed the point you were asking.
Journalist: Yes, I think…
Sahaja Yogi: But she asked are there any enlightened gurus in the West.
Shri Mataji: Did you?
Journalist: Yeah. Are there genuine spiritual leaders in the West?
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, yes, I said so, there are many. Yes, there are many. All over the world they are, not only in India.
Journalist: Do You consider some of the Western religious organizations to be genuine?
Shri Mataji: They are all genuine because they believe so, but they don’t create genuine effects. That’s the point is. You may believe something is genuine in ignorance, see? For example, you may believe that a particular diamond is a real diamond, because they’re ignorant about jewellery. But when you want to sell it in the market, you find out that it’s not so. That’s what is happening to our religions now. The thing is, all religions have to seek within themselves and get their Self-realization. Which they are not doing. They’re, too, having buildings. They, too, are having organizations. They’re, too, having … what you call … big market places. All that is … all coming to economics again, or to politics at the most, but not to God.
Journalist: How is it that the, er, there are gurus in the world that won’t come into the West? Why do You come to the West?
Shri Mataji: Me?
Sahaja Yogi: The ones that … there are many that won’t come to the West. Why have You come to the West?
Shri Mataji: You see, because I’m the only venturesome person, I think.
Journalist: Sorry, what did You say?
Shri Mataji: I said I’m the only venturesome person. But apart from that, I must tell you, it was so arranged that My husband got elected to this job in England, elected by 134 nations, four times unanimously.
Journalist: What do You think … how long have You lived in the West now?
Shri Mataji: No, I don’t live here much, you see, I go to India also. I’ve been traveling quite a lot. I’ve been to India, I’ve been to all the places, and I have to go about with My husband also. I’ve been to Russia, I’ve been to China, all over the places, Argentina, every place.
Journalist: Apart from the material circumstances of life, what do You think is different between the West and the East? Just forgetting the material circumstances, You know, what do You think is different about us?
Shri Mataji: Western people?
Journalist: Yeah, and the Eastern people.
Shri Mataji: They are very…
Sahaja Yogi: Other than material aspects.
Shri Mataji: No, they are very honest people, very honest.
Shri Mataji: Very honest, they are very honest people. Really, they are honest, no doubt of it. And about themselves also they are very honest. I have tremendous regard for them. You see, the Indian real gurus, as you may call them, are even frightened of Indians, leave alone the Westerners, you see. They think they’ll be crucified or their throats will be cut. They have been tortured also, I must say. One fellow cannot walk because his legs were broken and hands were broken. Because, you see, there is a big struggle between the reality and unreal things. Because these people are having a business proposition. You understand that. It’s a very big business organization. So, if anybody says anything against it, then they can pay people to get after you, they can kill you, they can do anything they like. It’s a mafia. It’s not easy, to face these horrible people. They are all multimillionaires.
Journalist: Have You suffered similar experiences and people try to kill You or…
Shri Mataji: They try, but doesn’t succeed. Yesterday only we had a meeting and there were two boys from this TM, I think paid by TM, whatever it is. They tried to be very funny. And I’d say the whole public got after them; they ran away. They said, “Now you can’t have it, dog-in-the-manger policy you have got. Now you can’t have it, so let us have it at least.” So they went away. They try. It’s all right. I mean, I expect all that.
Journalist: Can You just tell us something if the … Your … Your yoga school is developed from…
Sahaja Yogi: It’s not a yoga school.
Journalist: No, it’s…
Sahaja Yogi: You get your realization, and you then become a person who becomes a realized person. And you just…
Journalist: But it has started from … through the influence of…
Sahaja Yogi: Yes. Not influence. I got my realization when I went to India. I’ve been looking. I’ve been to all these false gurus, all these places where I saw some shocking things happening, and I … absolutely shocked and disillusioned. I was about to come home, but somebody had given me Mataji’s telephone number. She was in India at that time from England. And I went to Her and I thought, “My goodness, this is all so very different.” I was starting to feel incredibly peaceful and joyful, and amazing things were happening inside me, which were very … very wonderful, and it all seemed so normal. And yet so…
Shri Mataji: And healthwise. First of all he improved healthwise.
Journalist: What was your trade…
Sahaja Yogi: I’m a doctor. I mean, I was very skeptical…
Journalist: General practitioner?
Sahaja Yogi: No, I’ve trained as such, but I’ve been practicing in natural health because I’m a bit disillusioned with the medical side. And many of my patients had been going to India on these spiritual pilgrimages — and coming back worse. And I wondered why. Because I was reading all these books that were saying these great gurus and they were speaking about Christ, and Mohammed, and Krishna, and all these things. And they were coming back in a worsened condition. So I thought the two things were a disparity. On the one hand, they seemed to be those spiritual masters. On the other hand, these people were coming back. But they had a very good rationalization, they’d say they were purifying themselves, or they were cleansing themselves, or they were going through some karmas, or something like that. So I couldn’t sort it all out. So I went to India. I stayed there a few months. And finally I met Mother. And it seemed so logical, and so sensible, and so scientific. I mean, it agrees with all the medical science. It underpins medical science, in fact.
Shri Mataji: I’ve also studied medicine.
Sahaja Yogi: It was quite incredible. And now it just seems so easy.
Journalist: So you do some yoga practice as part of your daily routine day?
Sahaja Yogi: Meditation in a very simplified form. When you feel this cool vibration on your hand, and above your head, and over your body, you know that you are in meditation.
Shri Mataji: You are in meditation.
Sahaja Yogi: That’s it. That’s it.
Journalist: Do you do any sort of asanas or you just…
Sahaja Yogi: Not many. Just a few if you got a specific problem.
Shri Mataji: You see, it depends on. It’s very scientific. It depends on where you have a problem. Say, for example, you have a problem in your stomach. Now, you have to do certain exercise for that, for a short time, till you get rid of it. Or may be that you have to say certain mantras for that, to excite, or to awaken, that part within you into liveliness. That’s how … it is very scientific. But gradually you’ll know it, so easy it becomes, the whole thing becomes so easy. Because when you are expanding towards the periphery, the whole thing becomes complex. But when you integrate towards the center, then everything is very simple, you have to deal with simple principles. And once you know how to manage that… for example, balance. Balance in a person is very important. Balance in a person is not dealt with in, say … in medical science. While we have one medical science, then we have psychologists, we have this and that. We have one doctor for one eye and another doctor for another eye. Here, it’s one person, who is the one who cures you, he diagnoses you, he gives you realization — is everything. The laboratory, the complete instrument is human being. And this is created by God within you beautifully, it’s all there. Just to be connected to the mains, that’s all. It’s all ready there. I mean, nothing fantastic for Me, because I know it is there. But once you get it, you are amazed how you have started working it out. Because we are not aware of ourselves. Every one of you can get it. Every one of you.
Journalist: How did You develop the Self-realization, were You born with it or…
Shri Mataji: I was born with it.
Journalist: So, from the day You were born You knew it?
Shri Mataji: Yes. Yes.
Journalist: When did You know it that You have been born with it? When did You discover it?
Shri Mataji: You see, it is like if I ask you a question when did you discover you are a human being. You won’t be able to say. It’s as simple as that, you see. I was quite aware of it.
Journalist: When You say Self-rea— I mean, I know I’m a human being. I mean, what do You mean by Self-realization here?
Shri Mataji: You can, everyone can get it. As long as you are a human being, you get it, that’s all.
Sahaja Yogi: It’s a higher level of awareness than human awareness. You’re not using your thinking brain. You’re not using your emotional brain. You’re using what is basically the all-pervading Power of God, the unconscious, about which Jung…
Shri Mataji: That is reflected within you.
Sahaja Yogi: Jung spoke about it.
Shri Mataji: You see, it is reflected within you as Kundalini, we call it. In Sanskrit language it is called as Kundalini. But this also word is so terrifying to people, those who have read about Kundalini; they get a fright. She is your Mother, the one who has to give you the rebirth. Now, there are people who have written so many such big books, without knowing where the Kundalini lies. Imagine. Absolutely vain. Now, you can see it in some people, pulsation of the Kundalini. We have got also on videotapes some of these things when we saw on some people, where there was obstruction, the pulsation goes out. The pulsation, you can see sometimes this triangular bone, sacrum, just pulsating.
But imagine, this thing was called as sacrum, means sacred. And I asked the Greek people; I said, “Why did you call it sacrum?” They said, “We had a rapport with the Indo-Aryan group, much before Alexander went to India, and they told us that this bone is the sacred bone.”
Sahaja Yogi: If you burn the bone, the bone is so ossified that it’s the last one to burn.
Shri Mataji: Yes, you need a very high temperature to burn that bone.
Journalist: I’ll ask: You worked with Gandhi, didn’t You? What were Your impressions of Gandhi?
Shri Mataji: What are My impressions?
Shri Mataji: Oh, he was a very great man, very much needed at that time. And if he had survived, he would have supported Sahaja Yoga out and out, no doubt about it. Journalist: Sorry?
Shri Mataji: If he had survived, he would have supported Sahaja Yoga out and out.
Journalist: How much contact did you have with Gandhi?
Shri Mataji: It’s quite a lot. As a child I was very close to him, and he used to call Me Nepali. Because according to My features were more Nepali, My complexion was Nepali, he used to call Me Nepali. And very affectionate towards children. Very affectionate. Otherwise he was a hard-task master himself, towards himself and towards others, but very kind gentleman as far as the children were concerned. And you could even overrule him by sweetness. I mean, supposing he says, “I don’t want to have any juice just now.” You can say, “Bapu, have a little bit, otherwise we won’t have,” or something. He would just melt away. So sweet inside.
Journalist: Have You seen the film version of him?
Shri Mataji: Yes, I’ve seen it.
Journalist: What do You think of it?
Shri Mataji: Film is very good, I must say. It’s very good.
Journalist: Is it accurate?
Shri Mataji: Yes, very. It is very accurate, but in some ways, you see, I would say that … for example, Gandhiji, you see, was an Indian. And the Indian style of talking is rather different from what you people talk. Because you are very intelligent people and you’re sharp-witted, you see; you know words, I mean, you are very well read, so you say few things in a very sharp way, immediately you answer in a way that is … very, I should say, acute, absolutely. But he was an Indian, so the Indian, you see, doesn’t say such a … such … sudden … he just springs with such a sudden intelligent remarks, you see. They are gentler people, I think. They speak in a gentler way, in a little roundabout way.
Sahaja Yogi: He couldn’t sit on the floor properly.
Shri Mataji: That also you could find out that he couldn’t sit properly on the floor. That’s why— but that’s not so important. What I felt was the only thing…
Journalist: He did in the film. I’m not a critic, he did in the film.
Shri Mataji: That’s one thing about him, and the essence of it is, you see, that whatever was — which was such a short time to bring forth such a deep thing — I think he has done full justice. Except for one point that Gandhiji never wanted to provoke. He never used these sinister methods of provoking others. He was a very genuine person, you see. And I think that is little bit lacking. He didn’t do it to … just to, you see … with a mind that would provoke others. No, he wouldn’t think of such a thing. It was just he thought that if he … has no other way out. Because you don’t know what times we had. I mean, in this picture he couldn’t show anything. It was very oppressive time. For three hundred years, can you believe? So to talk of anything was impossible.
My father himself went to jail many a times. My mother went five times to jail. Of course, later on he was Member of the Constituent Assembly, Parliament, everything. My brother is also a Minister of Steel now in India, in the Cabinet. But that time, it was so difficult, very difficult. They used to torture people much more than is shown there. Individually. They used to hound out.
Journalist: Do You know Mrs. Gandhi?
Shri Mataji: Oh, yes, I like her.
Journalist: Do You ever met her personally?
Shri Mataji: Yes, I’ve met her once or twice. But I wonder if she remembers Me now. You see, she is a very busy person. I mean, she is a solution just now for us, we can say.
Journalist: What do You think are the immediate problems facing India at the moment?
Shri Mataji: If they take to Sahaja Yoga, they can be all solved because it also gives you material freedom. It also gives you material blessings. You see, we have too much black magic and all that in our country. It’s very heavy (…). And once you get into those things, you get the poverty.
Journalist: Just on that point, Mother, a couple of years ago in an interview You were more talking about Self-realization and less inclined to talk about so-called group miracle cures and so on. I noticed in the press release there’s quite a heavy accent on cures. Have You done that specifically, to perhaps reinforce Your message or get Your message across?
Shri Mataji: Which one?
Sahaja Yogi: He is saying that there seems to be an emphasis in the press release on curing.
Shri Mataji: No, no, I did not. Did you feel that way? Oh God, I’m not doing that. Really.
Sahaja Yogi: “Has Your emphasis changed?” is his question.
Journalist: What I’m saying is that I gather that two years ago that You weren’t emphasizing it…
Shri Mataji: No, no, no. No, never, never, never.
Journalist: … but the press release that supports Your trip here indicates the more … other side of it, which, of course, has opened a little more skepticism.
Shri Mataji: Curing, it is a by-product. Curing is a by-product of Self-realization. You see, Self-realization is most important. You see, God is not interested in curing every Dick, Tom and Harry. Say, for example, Hitler wants to get cured. Should we cure him? It’s better cure for him to go to hell, at least for one lifetime, and then come back, to see what people have suffered. So, it’s never … accent is never on curing at all, and I, out of compassion — you see, because it works — I work out. But this isn’t important. I don’t know why you felt that way. I don’t know what they have given you. I have no idea as to what they have given you and what is accentuated, but as far as I am concerned, for Me Self-realization is the main thing. That’s My job.
Sahaja Yogi: In fact, Mother takes emphasis away from curing at the public programs.
Shri Mataji: I tell them not to cure anyone. I said, if they want to cure, let them work on My photograph. Let the photograph take all the load. You don’t take any load of curing. Journalist: Perhaps then You better talk over the situation with your public relations people.
Sahaja Yogi: We don’t have any.
Shri Mataji: Any. We don’t have any publicity, nothing. They do it on their own, spontaneously. They will realize if they have made mistake, then put it right next time. I don’t know what’s happening and all that. I don’t know anything. They are doing on their own. Let them learn. They gradually learn, you see. Better ways of healing and all that. Let them learn. They’ll all learn.
Journalist: Can we just clarify that: do You claim that You can heal or cure?
Shri Mataji: I do not claim, I do it. No question of claiming, you see. I do it. I’ve done it. You can do it also. Everyone can do it. This Doctor Warren has done. He’s cured so many people.
Journalist: You’ve just said it could be done through photograph. Could You explain that?
Shri Mataji: Yes, it is surprising, you know. Myself I was surprised, as you are, that My photograph has also got vibrations and people get cured with photographs. In your country only when I came, the press was very kind to Me. The reason was there was a lady who was sick with coma. And they said she had got blood…
Sahaja Yogi: Cerebral aneurism.
Shri Mataji: Aneurism. And one another disciple of Mine took My photograph, put it under her head. And she started getting all right, in the sense that she started opening her eyes. So the doctors got frightened. They said, “Even if she gets all right, she will be damaged. She won’t be able to walk.” But today she’s perfectly all right. Not only that, but she is very hard-working
Sahaja Yogini. So it’s all right.
Journalist: How does it work? When you (…) the photograph.
Sahaja Yogi: How does it work? How does it work from the photograph?
Shri Mataji: From the photograph? The photograph is a real image of Myself, you see. And this My body has got a coefficience which emits vibrations. Same happens with the photograph. That, too, has the same coefficience. Of course, it hasn’t got the other dimension, but it also emits the vibrations because of the coefficience being the same. Say, even if you take Christ’s photograph — it’s not real, because it’s all come out of the unconscious, all right, but there’s a lot of imagination put into. Any photograph if you take of any person, it is like that. But there are so many things I’ve seen which are … which have come out of the Mother Earth. They emit vibrations. Like, Stonehenge in England has vibrations. So many places like that have vibrations, but not so strong as Mine, because I am a living person.
Journalist: What is Your idea of God? What is God?
Shri Mataji: My idea? It’s not only idea, but it’s the truth that I feel about God. God … is … difficult to put Him in words, isn’t it? Is the witness of the play of His Power. He is separated from His Power, and He’s just witnessing the play of His Power. And the Power is creating, is protecting, nourishing the creation, and evolving it. Till this play is up to the animal stage, everything is under the control. But to give it a greater freedom, they have to give first freedom to human beings at this level. So this freedom was granted. So that you learn what is your mistake, what is your right thing; you decide. You develop yourself with that. You create a balance within yourself. And then you ascent to the spirit, by which you know God’s power flowing through you. This is all the game is. In short I’m telling you. So this God is the witness of this play. He is the Father, we can say, and His power is the Holy Ghost. And He sends His Son on this Earth to redeem people. He plays a very important part, Christ, in our lives. And all other Incarnations. All of them have a meaning — and a place within ourself. Christ also has a special place within us, which is the gate of the limbic area.
Journalist: So You are a Christian, as well as being an Indian?
Shri Mataji: Oh, I’m not a Christian, in the sense that I don’t belong to any Church. Neither I’m a real Hindu, Christian, everything. Because they are all based on the same principle of God. See, these are all flowers who were … on the same tree of life. But people plucked it, saying, “This is mine. I am that. I am that.” And then the flowers became ugly — and dead. That’s why people think Christianity has failed you, Hinduism has failed you, Islam has failed you. It’s not the Prophets. It’s not the Incarnations. It’s we — by possessing them. We cannot possess God. We cannot possess religion, we are in religion. Means religion is our valency. Just like carbon has valency of four, we have valency of ten. That is in this part of our being, where the attention is. And if we are balanced people, if we live with moderation, the ascending was fast. But even the extremists of extremists have got realization. So the grace is flowing very generously, I should say, to achieve that. Even alcoholics, you see, who come to Me — in alcoholic state — become overnight wonderful people.
Shri Mataji: Overnight, you’ll be surp— overnight. There are druggists and chemists and smokers.
Journalist: Can You cure me of smoking?
Shri Mataji: Beg your pardon?
Journalist: Can You cure me from nicotine?
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes.
Journalist: Do You consider Yourself to be a saint or a prophet?
Shri Mataji: What is the relevance of this question?
Shri Mataji: I just don’t understand. Everyone of them are asking, “Do you consider?” If I was not considering Myself, why would I work like this? Do I think I’m a thief? Or what I think of Myself? You see, it’s a funny question, isn’t it? You just tell Me. I don’t understand the relevance. Because everyone of them are asking these questions to Me: “Do you think?” It’s a— what is it? I must be thinking something about it, I must be aware of Myself, otherwise I won’t take up this work. See now: I have a husband who loves Me very much, I have a very comfortable house of My own, I have My own children and grandchildren. I don’t get anything out of this for Me, except that I have a satisfaction that I’m sharing My joy with all of you. All right? Now, unless and until I’m aware of Myself, do you think I will do such a thing? Anyone of you will do this thing without getting anything out of it? Can anyone in this world can do such a thing? Tell Me. Without any purpose?
Journalist: Well, I think somebody’s just called You the greatest living saint and…
Shri Mataji: Yes. I mean, they can call Me anything, you see. But what I’m saying — that, you see … asking this question … supposing I said, “Yes, I think so.” Then you’ll say, “She is very ego-oriented.” All right. If I say, “I don’t think so,” then suggest, “She’s diffident.” You see, it’s a very funny thing, you know. So it’s like a … this is a question that is irrelevant. Unless and until I am aware of it, why will I do this work?
Journalist: I suppose, in the West we think of saints with halos around their head, you see.
Shri Mataji: Yes, you can see that also if you become realized souls. You do. You will see that. Many see that. I will show you one photograph. Have you got that? Let us see it.
Sahaja Yogini: This is a nice one.
Sahaja Yogi: Ah, there. That one.
Shri Mataji: Just see this photograph. Can you explain?
Shri Mataji: This photograph. I’m sitting in a village, outside. And this … seven times this light fell on Me. Have you seen Christ pray in that garden?
Journalist: Oh yes, yes.
Shri Mataji: And this is the photograph. See now. There are many other things people have seen in My photographs. There’s one photograph where they have seen lights coming out of My fingers, My toes. They have got these photographs. So for you…
Journalist: Couldn’t that just be a reflection from a glass or something like that?
Shri Mataji: No, no. This has happened seven times and when I put down My head. None of them could see at that time. It’s not through a reflection. Ask the photographer if she can explain.
Sahaja Yogi: We had the expertation.
Shri Mataji: All artificial gurus would try this trick, you see.
Journalist: I understand You began teaching Self-realization of people in 1970? Is that right or…
Shri Mataji: No, not Self-realization. I had “human-realization”.
Shri Mataji: I understood human beings at that time. They are very complicated, I must say. So many permutations and combinations. And I had to study them thoroughly. Because My father himself was a realized soul and he told Me that “No use talking about God, saying anything about Him — it will become another Bible, another Gita. You have to find out a mass realization method. It has to work on masses.” And also you have seen any discovery which is not used for masses is wasted. And he said, “Otherwise, same thing will happen. You will be crucified or they’ll kill you. You’ll be finished.” Then I knew I had come for this work, to achieve that. So I had to study, work it out, the method by which en-masse evolution could be achieved. And when I did it, I would say it was My human-realization, in the sense that I found an opportune time to start.
Journalist: Will You continue to do this travel around the world until You die or…
Shri Mataji: What is it?
Sahaja Yogi: Will You continue to travel around the world doing this work until You die?
Shri Mataji: It’s very futuristic. I don’t think of My death so far. As long as I can do, I’ll do it, but … I mean, if some … these people are realized, then, I think, they’ll give Me some rest sometime, isn’t it? I must also have some rest. Now I am sixty years of age. How long do you want Me to live? It’s for you to decide. If you take over, then I need not live.
Journalist: You spend more … most of the time in London now, do You?
Shri Mataji: Yes. Because My husband is there, My family… And he is a very busy man himself, you see, he is a…
Journalist: Where did You come from originally in India?
Shri Mataji: Beg your pardon?
Journalist: Where did You live originally in India?
Shri Mataji: Originally, near Ahmednagar. It’s the where the … our dynasty…
Journalist: I mean, of big cities where … is that near a big city?
Shri Mataji: It’s a … it’s a … district place, it’s not a very big city, Ahmednagar. It’s very near…
Journalist: What is the biggest city it’s near? Or…
Shri Mataji: I lived in … with My husband in Delhi because he was with the former prime minister Lal Bahadur Shastri. He was his secretary.
Shri Mataji: Yes. And then I lived … he went to Tashkent also with him. He was throughout with him. And then I lived in Bombay because he was Chairman of Shipping Corporation of India. For years together I lived in cities. I studied in Lucknow, in Lahore, in Medical College. That’s how I lived in cities. But originally, My family, all of them come from this place, Ahmednagar. I was born in a small little hill station, which is on the tropic of Cancer.
Journalist: Mother, what about reincarnation? Is that part of Your philosophy?
Sahaja Yogi: Is reincarnation part of Your philosophy? Reincarnation.
Shri Mataji: Of whom?
Journalist: Of everybody. When we physically pass away, do we return (…)?
Shri Mataji: Yes. Are you mean … you mean human beings?
Shri Mataji: Of course, of course, of course. Of course.
Journalist: Perhaps then You could look at another situation, one of the mysteries of life. There are many people who appear to be honest, sincere and work hard, who suffer enormous tragedy and so on. And there are people — I could name a couple but I won’t — who seem to flow through, but they’re not necessarily liked by their mate, You know, by their fellow human beings. Is there a reason for that, perhaps attached spirits or something like that?
Shri Mataji: Going to false gurus is very dangerous, is extremely dangerous. It’s not so superficially to be treated. You see, money I don’t mind. Because if they are thugs, all right, there are so many thugs. We have mafia, we have all kind of things. It doesn’t matter, let them be thugs. But it’s not so simple as we think. It’s very deep. You see, they can bring forth all the diseases which are incurable within us. Say, myelitis … what you call … osteomyelitis, cancer, heart attacks — all kinds of diseases which are absolutely incurable, beyond our control. Then depressions, and then stresses within us… also they can bring … quite a lot of them give epilepsy to people, abnormal behavior. Even in the plane if I am sitting, you see, I find some people are just doing like this, like that. And most of them have been to this TM. They have paid thousands and thousands of pounds to achieve that kind of a funny thing, burning this center, by which their necks come out like that and they are all the time twitching themselves or jumping.
Sahaja Yogi: He asked about spiritual possession too, Mother. He asked about spiritual possessions.
Shri Mataji: Of course, this is spiritual possession. Yes it is spiritual possessions. They become…
Journalist: And did You have a method of driving away that spirit?
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, I do. I do try. You see, even…
Journalist: So that’s the key to solving many of these diseases.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, of course, of course. Because, you see, the cabbages are better sometimes than these people. Poor things! You know, they are so suppressed that even if you show them a garlic, they are frightened and they tremble like this. Garlic, can you imagine? They are afraid of garlics and afraid of onions. I mean, what are their myths? Some are just sex-points, without any sex activity. Horrible things they are! They are neither human beings nor animals. Terribly possessed, no doubt. They can be cured, absolutely. We have cured so many like that. You can meet so many … you won’t believe them that they have been like that. There’s one gentleman here, standing, you can see him…
Sahaja Yogi: He was a flyer in TM.
Journalist: What’s a flyer?
Sahaja Yogi: Who can levitate.
Shri Mataji: You see, all they levitate, so-called. Sitting on the floor you have to jump, you see. And then you think that you are flying. And then you get possessed. And they just start … sitting down they just come out of their seats, you see, as if somebody had ejected them out. This is supposed to be flying.
Journalist: Do You (…)?
Shri Mataji: Beg your pardon?
Journalist: You ruined his theory, didn’t You?
Shri Mataji: Oh, horrible things they do. In one of our ashrams, one fellow came because he went to a barbershop and he was having a … so he had to spend some time waiting outside. So he saw one magazine there, where it was written about Sahaja Yoga, in a magazine called Yoga Today. They are not supposed to read anything else, you see. They are banned. Everything is secret. It’s all mafia style. So poor man, you see, hesitatingly took that thing, and he took that Yoga Today to read. And there was My picture which said that “If you feel cool breeze on this picture, then know that you are a realized soul.” So he tried to put the hands, and in the barbershop hall he went into contortions. So he got such a fright that he telephoned to our ashram, and the gentleman who was on the phone was also … not a TM but another type; and he asked him, “Are you feeling hot?” He said, “I’m boiling this side.” He said, “Have you done TM?” He said, “Yes. But how do you know?” He said, “We know.” Then he came down. But when he came down there … and these people just took My name, and the fellow went into such a contortion and started barking like a dog that all the Sahaja Yogis got a fright, and they sent Me a SOS that “Mother, please come to our help!” And I was going to have big … lots of people for dinner. I said, “What’s it happening?” He said, “There’s a fellow who came here, he’s behaving like this, and we are all frightened of him.” Then I told them what is to be done to pacify him. But this fellow today is a very big Sahaja Yogi in London. He was a manager of a very big estate company. He lost his job, lost his money. He became penniless doing this TM.
But now I am told this Rajneesh is coming to your Australia to bless you all. This fellow Rajneesh, who is ousted from America…
Sahaja Yogi: The orange people, they’re called.
Shri Mataji: The orange people. He is trying to come here, so be careful.
Sahaja Yogi: The government’s already typing up its regulations now.
Shri Mataji: He’s bought only thirty-six Rolls-Royces and three aeroplanes. I don’t know what his ambitions are out of Australians.
Sahaja Yogi: He’s been thrown out of India. Now that he got a dep –
Shri Mataji: Not thrown out, he ran away.
Sahaja Yogi: He’d run away, sorry. He had a deportation order in America now. We hear this coming through.
Journalist: What’s his name?
Sahaja Yogi: Rajneesh.
Shri Mataji: These orange people, you see.
Journalist: What is bad about Rajneesh?
Shri Mataji: Horrible.
Journalist: But why?
Shri Mataji: You see, what he does: he makes you into a sex-point. He has mass sex. Mass sex, you see. Horrible things.
Journalist: Some people think that’s all right.
Shri Mataji: Yes, those who like it go there and become mad, that’s all. That’s all. You pay for it. We have a film. I think we have a film. We can show you. See, somebody has taken secretly the film of his work.
Sahaja Yogi: One of them, who is disenchanted.
Shri Mataji: One of them. He took a secret film of what they do inside. And that was released in London, called as “God Who Ran Away”. And in that they showed this mass thing and all that. So what he does: he makes people absolutely impotent. They become impotent by his method. Possesses them at the sex point. And talks about sex all the time. So they are so restless that they become mad. And they give him money as much as he wants, you see. He has told so many women that he was their husband in his previous lives. So they gave all their ornaments to him. One Indian lady gave all her jewellery to him, very expensive jewellery. So his brother and his … her … she was a widow. Her brother and brother-in-law came to Me with her, that “Please, Mother, cure her.” I asked her, “Why did you give?” She said, “He was my husband in his previous life.” I said, “Who told you?” She said, “He told me.” I said, “But why do you believe?” She said, “I also feel the same way.” I said, “But what about the husband whom you married, from whom you have children, who has given you all this jewellery? And why should you give it to this man, whom you never married?” “No, I believe what he said.” She was absolutely in complete possession of him. And no one knows where she is now. No one knows.
Journalist: There is … sorry … there are some other cults in Australia, and (…) would probably including the Moonies and the Hare Krishnas. What are Your opinions on them?
Shri Mataji: Now, Moonies, of course, you know all very well. I need not tell about them. Journalist: You don’t approve the Moonies?
Shri Mataji: Of course not. You see, when you become a Sahaja Yogi, you start loving your parents, loving your children, loving everyone. You solve your problems. You don’t hate anyone. You don’t run away from anyone. On the contrary, if these things happen, this is anti-God activity, absolutely anti-God activity, that you get out of your families completely, you have nothing to do with anyone. This is absolutely anti-God.
The another sect is our great, what you call them, Hare Ramas. And the first basic mistake they make is to say that vegetarianism is just way to God. Taking Krishna’s name, specially. Because Shri Krishna, in Gita, the first chapter — is very outset — He told Arjuna that “You have to kill.” Human beings, leave alone animals. Then he said, “How can I kill! Because there are my gurus and there are my relations!” So He said, “You have to kill them. To achieve a higher goal, you have to give up your lower goals.” This is what exactly He told. Then later on it was introduced, in the Gita, that vegetarianism leads you to God. I don’t know how. Because they said that the people who are left-sided, emotional people, eat more meat, which is scientifically not true. Those who are morbid people, those who are left-sided — means who have got … what you can say … conditioned people — they seldom eat meat. The people who eat meat are the rajasic people, are the people who are more aggressive, more active. So the inactive people eat less meat because protein acts as an activity. So it’s scientifically also. But they don’t understand science or anything, you see. These people are told that “You must not eat meat.” Finished. That’s the end of a way. Now, in India, out of poverty, so many people are not eating meat. By not eating meat if you go to God, then everybody else was wrong — because Krishna Himself used to eat and Rama Himself ate. Even Buddha ate it, because He died … because He died …
Journalist: Buddha ate meat?
Shri Mataji: Beg your pardon?
Journalist: Ate … ate meat?
Shri Mataji: Yes, He ate. And He died because He ate a raw — by mistake — a raw meat of a … pig. Or a wild boar, just wild boar. Of a wild boar. So, He was eating. And in India only the so-called Brahmins don’t eat, so-called Brahmins. Because they thought this is the best way of befooling people. But not that I am for eating meat or eating vegetables. It depends on your temperament, what sort of a temperament you have. Supposing you are very aggressive — it’s better to eat vegetables.
Shri Mataji: Yes. Grass. But if you are non-aggressive and you get conditioned very easily, suppressed type, then you better eat meat.
Sahaja Yogi: I’m afraid we’re going to have to finish it there. Those that want to, you can see Mother privately and … for an interview if you want to. That can be arranged later. So, can we wind it up? Are there any…
Shri Mataji: On one point I’ll say about them that what these people are doing in India is something so shocking. I went to many places, in the district places, and the people like you, the newspaper people, came and said, “Mother, why are You carrying these people in the villages here? We have had enough of them.” I said, “Why? What happened?” They said, “We have so many beggars now let loose. These people are now walking in the villages, you see, and begging. And they are torturing everyone there. Because our villages don’t have so much money to look after them. In the beginning, of course, they tried.” And they all bombard Me with questions that “Why do you carry these people? They’ll also come here as beggars.” I said, “No, they are all employed people. They are not beggars, don’t be worried.” They can’t believe it. They said, “Now, first they came as aggressors and now they are coming as beggars and troubling us. And a person is begging at your house.”
Journalist: Is that the hippies?
Shri Mataji: Yes. The hippies and these, also these Hare Ramas. This is their special job. And you said that … you see, they say they are saints. So they said, “We can’t even eat our food properly, because they are standing at your doorstep asking for alms, you see. Whatever we have we give them: ‘Baba, save us from your problems!'”
Journalist: It’s like they play reverse (…), isn’t it?
Shri Mataji: Yes. Imagine! And they think they are leading a very sane life, you know. For only eating vegetarian food, they think they are very sane people. God’s people are never beggars. They must have self-esteem and self-respect. If they feel insulted, then they should give up this profession.
Sahaja Yogi: OK, those that want to see Mother further, see Ian, he’s at the back there. And we’ll take it step further then. Thank you very much.
Journalist: Thanks very much for Your time.
Shri Mataji: Thank you very much all of you. Thank you very much. I hope you convey the message so that many people get their realization and you don’t have any more diseases, anything left in this country.
Sahaja Yogi: Let them know that Mother is speaking tonight and tomorrow night and Thursday night at the exhibition hall, exhibition buildings in Melbourne. And She gives the experience at the program.
Shri Mataji: It acts. The main thing is it acts.
Sahaja Yogi: She actually gives the experience of Self-realization at the program.
Shri Mataji: Yes, I will, I will, there. It has to act. That’s the difference between others and Me, at least. That much one can see clearly. It immediately changes you. Yesterday we had one cancer patient of liver. We should follow it, that case up. Now, doctors have told him, “Within one month you are going to die,” you see. And I told him, “All right.” I made him sit with his left hand towards Me and right hand outside. He started feeling much better. And healthier. And if he is cured, that’s a proof.
Sahaja Yogi: And it’s happened many times, under medical supervision.
Shri Mataji: I’ve also cured our president, Mr. Sanjiva Reddy. If you want, you can write to him and find out. He is cured of his cancer.
Journalist: Where is that person that had cancer that you saw in Australia?
Shri Mataji: Here in Adelaide. He came only yesterday, and he felt very much better after that. So many people felt better. Some people had stomach trouble, and some people had frozen arms… Everybody felt better. Their arms opened out, automatically.
Journalist: When You claim cures like that, do You get flak from the medical profession and…: When You claim cures like that, do the medical profession oppose You?
Shri Mataji: No, I have many doctors who are My disciples now. Many doctors. You see, there are so many things still left to the doctors to do. I’m not interested in patients. But if they come to My program, they get all right. I’m not (…), I don’t go to hospitals.
Sahaja Yogi: It challenges too much, challenges too much within our fabric of knowledge.
Shri Mataji: No, but they won’t be angry with Me, I’m sure, because they are overloaded with patients. They won’t be so angry, I can assure you. They won’t be so angry. Journalist: That’s very true.
Shri Mataji: You see, I’m not interested in curing, but they take … if they get cured, what should I do? Automatically they get cured.
Sahaja Yogi: Certainly the people that develop their realization get better. That’s not … there’s no question about.
Here ends the official press conference Shri Mataji works on the journalist.
Journalist: As you did so we can just get the. We got the camera here, you see. This is what people have to do?
Shri Mataji: Yes, just that’s all.
Journalist: Hold their hand there, mother.
Shri Mataji: Up to their both feet like this.
Journalist: And feet like that, hold out their hands. That’s the way to do it.
Shri Mataji: Yes, it might work out.
Journalist: All right. We’re just getting the shots, you see. All right, but you spread fingers, or fingers together?
Shri Mataji: Just like… relaxed. as if asking for something.
?: Raise your hand
Journalist: Yes, we are just getting there.
Shri Mataji: You yourself will start feeling it. You are shaking a little. That means you work very hard.
Journalist: Yes, too hard.
Shri Mataji: On your nerves. Now they’ll sooth down. See, that shake is coming from too much strain on the nerves. Specially the right side is shaking.
Journalist: Coming from the left side of the brain.
Shri Mataji: You have to forgive, you have to forgive, forgive, forgive everyone. Just forgive, just forgive, it will work out. You feel ? Still shaking. This shaking has to go, then it will work out. I’m giving you balance, raising your left side, the emotional side, the right side of your action, you see being fulfilled. Can I touch your forehead? Close your eyes. Are you feeling peaceful now?
Journalist: Hm. are my hands stopped shaking?
Shri Mataji: Yes, it has, little bit still, it stopped. This hand up, so it will cool down. Better now. We overdo things sometimes, isn’t it, which we should not. Now better, see, it’s better, it stopped.
Journalist: And how long do I need to sit here like this?
Shri Mataji: Just to assure… are you feeling the cool breeze in the hand? Are you feeling anything cool?
Journalist: I feel relaxed, calm.
Shri Mataji: Relaxed. No cool in the hand? And see, you can see pulsation is here, now, in the center of your head. It just breaks here. It takes hardly any time. Still you are shaking, you see. All right, just say, “Mother, give me my realization”.
Journalist: Give me my realization.
Shri Mataji: Again.
Journalist: Give me my realization.
Shri Mataji: Once more, once more.
Journalist: Give me my realization, give me my realization. Give me my realization.
Shri Mataji: Better.
Journalist: Give me my realization.
Shri Mataji: Are you feeling the relaxation? Light, you feel light within yourself, feel lighter? Shri Mataji: Hands will clear. You have to forgive, it’s too much work. How many years you have worked like this? Days in and days out, worrying, for what? Everything is done by God. He does all the work, now seems better. Are you feeling cool?
Journalist: Ah, I feel a tingling in my hand.
Shri Mataji: Tingling is not a perfect sign, but it means it has started. It is smoothy all right, this is all right. Is it all right? This one is all right, this is still tingling. But it stopped shaking now. Better? Better now? All right? It works. it works. it works. Now you can’t think, just watch me. You can’t think.
Journalist: Oh, I can think. Shri Mataji: About thinking, when you want you can think.
Journalist: Oh, yes.
Shri Mataji: But now you can be beyond thinking also.
Journalist: Oh really? What?
Shri Mataji: So that’s it. So no worries. All right ?
Journalist: Now, all right.
Shri Mataji: Feeling the cool?
Journalist: Let’s do the interview and then see if I relax afterwards.
Shri Mataji: Oh yes, yes. You will. You will relax much more.
Journalist: Whenever you like Chris. All right. Mother, this is for people watching now. What can it be in this for them?
Shri Mataji: What is?
Journalist: So what have you to say to the people who are watching this on television at the moment?
Shri Mataji: Those who are watching at this time, they have to just spread their hands like this towards the television set and see if they feel any cool breeze in their hands. If they feel it, they should know that this is the power of God’s love, is the all pervading Power about which everybody has talked. The time has come for all of us to achieve it. This is the epitome of our evolution by which we find out ourselves, our absolute, our meaning, our purpose of life. The first time you feel the all pervading Power, which is doing all sorts of living work, like transforming a flower into a fruit. All this is done by God. What we do is the dead work. Is transforming dead to the dead. But God does all the living work, and first time you start feeling this power, and then you have to learn how to use it for doing living work on this earth.
Journalist: And the people who extend their hands towards You now on the television set, can they expect Self-realization?
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course.
Journalist: And from that, is a by-product health?
Shri Mataji: Yes, health, of course. They can…
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course. But they have to see which hand is heavier, which hand is not heavier. They might get, all of them, spontaneously realization, but they have to come to Me to know how to maintain it, how to understand it, how to give it to others. Because God is only interested in those people who are going to work as lights. And we do not keep enlightened lights under the table. So such people will get their realization very fast if they desire it. Desire is very important.
Journalist: So there are some people watching at this very moment who are receiving that.
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course. It’s all over, it’s all pervading. It’s like your ether, through which they are seeing the television now. In the same way God’s power is everywhere. You can feel it.
Journalist: And it doesn’t have to be that these people will be with You. They can do this by extending their hands towards the television set or the photograph.
Shri Mataji: Yes, My photograph is there. That’s sufficient to work it out. That’s sufficient to work it out. But they have to come to Me to decode it, what it is, how to feel it, what’s the problem is. Because at the very first outset, I’ve seen, it rushes out and the whole thing you can feel very fast. But then it goes back to the problems that you have. So it is better to see that you learn all about it. And you don’t have to pay anything, nothing of the kind. It’s very easy. It’s nothing difficult or complicated.
Journalist: All right. Thank you very much. I was happy with that. And how we are doing? We got enough? Or I should… Do one more shot. There will be one more shot and then we.
Shri Mataji: One minute. It was probably more than that.
Journalist: Yes, it was a bit more. or later. Now we better check my hands. So they are both back shaking again.
Shri Mataji: Still shaking? See what you are doing to yourself. You must learn to relax. Journalist: Working too much.
Shri Mataji: Yes, too much, working too hard, you can see, clearly you see. Why should they shake? You are a young man, I’m an old woman.
Shri Mataji: See even now how much they are shaking. Just see. This is not good.
Journalist: I best learn to relax a little.
Shri Mataji: Now you have to use My photograph. That’s the best way to relax. Put My photograph in front, put a light before it, put your hands towards the photograph. put both your feet in the water and little salt. The whole thing will go in the water, you’ll flush it out that water. You find everything is all right. He’s got it, I think. On the top of his head, he’s got it, but his hand are vague. Firstly, you have to talk to all kinds of people also, you see. You catch from them as well. Do you smoke?
Shri Mataji: Then it should not happen. That’s only nervousness. Better, you are feeling it. Good.
Shri Mataji: Yes, it’s there.
Journalist: But I mean.
Shri Mataji: It’s there. Little balance I am giving you. Too much working with your brain and very futuristic, and a speedy person. All right? Now, better.
Journalist: Yeah. Well, thank you very much for talking with me. I hope you enjoyed it.
Shri Mataji: I hope you’ll communicate to the people. Let the Australians get this. This is their right to have it.
Sahaja Yogi: Let them know that She is appearing tonight and tomorrow night.
Journalist: Yes, I have the details for. there.
Sahaja Yogi: Thank you.
Journalist: All right. Thank you very much.
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi