Public Program Day 3

Royal Exhibition Building, Melbourne (Australia)



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Public Program. Melbourne (Australia), 10 March 1983.

Introduction by Dr. Warren:

Again it gives me great pleasure to introduce to you again Mataji Nirmala Devi. For those of you who have been coming regularly to the series these last two nights and tonight, I think many of you will have experienced Self-realization. For those of you who haven’t, don’t despair, because it can be worked out in everyone. Not everyone keeps that gift of Self-realization, because, very foolishly, when we touch it, we let it go, we squander it, or perhaps we don’t develop it in a way in which that seeking that lies within us would desire. But whatever it is, most of us who get this experience of Self-realization come to a point where logically they reach the conclusion that there must be something that has happened within me, which has taken me into this new dimension of awareness. In my own case, when I experienced Self-realization … it was a very remarkable experience because I gained my experience from Mataji, in Her presence, in India. But the events that led up to that were quite interesting. Because, as practicing professional in health care, looking after lots of patients, I was able to watch a lot of those patients who were going to India, going to America, going to various places of Spiritual pilgrimage all over the world. And many of them were coming back — quite curiously to me at that time — quite damaged and quite in a state of mental and physical disarray. I had done a lot of reading about seeking, I had read a lot about Eastern religion, I had read, of course, the Christian scriptures, I’d also read extensively the Koran. But I was watching what was happening to my patients, to these people who were coming back with physical problems and especially psychological problems, and psychosexual problems, which were far worse than when they went away. But having done the reading, having read about these so-called masters that are granting Self-realization — so-called — or the experience, or the promise, or some such thing, I was curious to find out why it was that these people seemed to be a lot worse off. Worse off, not better. And this was from a purely rational point of view: at that stage I hadn’t gained my Self-realization. So I was given to believe that many of them who had these experiences were actually purifying themselves. That was one explanation. Other explanations were that it was a process of growth in which you have to re-experience so many of, for example, your childhood experiences, or repressions, or whatever it was. And this seemed to be, I suppose, to a rational mind that wanted explanations for things, reasonably sensible. But I still couldn’t come to terms with why these people were really — if I could use the word — quite freakish when they came back from these so-called pilgrimages. So I went myself. I went to the ashrams of these so-called sat gurus, I went to the places where hundreds of my own fellow countrymen and dozens of my own patients actually reside, where they live, where they have regarded it as their Spiritual home. And they live a most remarkable life. They live a life which is, to my way of thinking — from a purely Western, but perhaps a more universal point of view — a very sick life. I watched the depraved things that go on in the ashrams. I watched the mental sickness which was manifesting everywhere. I watched them using sexual and other, rather bizarre techniques for the so-called awakening of Kundalini. Because I knew that Kundalini had to be awakened. That much I knew. I was also very worried about this whole notion of Kundalini because all the books that I’d read were … somewhat … scaring because they had suggested that Kundalini is a dangerous energy that you mustn’t play with, and that when it’s awakened it can lead to all sorts of mental and physical disorders, and so on and so forth. So I had all these sorts of conditionings. But what I saw in fact in these places was nothing but a nonsense. Watching them dancing to this subliminal music, which, in fact, damages the brain cells; using strobe lights, which damage the cells of the back of the eye; using tantric techniques of so-called sexual kind that are “awakening” the Kundalini; people going into contortions; but worse than anything, people getting mesmerized. This was the most frightening part. Watching an hour-long “technique” — and that was what it was — whereby the “guru” mesmerized his audience, it reminded me, in fact, of much of what I’d read of Hitler, and it really disturbed me. I went from one to the other. I don’t mind naming them: I went to Rajneesh, I went to Muktananda, I went to all of these different places. I went to Sai Baba’s ashram. I, thank God, was never initiated by them, nor did I see any sign of them. They were in America, living their luxurious life. But the disciples were there. And they were in a horrible state. Many of my patients were there, and they were very very damaged. So from one to the other I went, forming increasingly a view which ranged from disillusionment to total disgust. If this was Spiritual seeking, then I just wanted to forget it. So I virtually abandoned the idea of finding out in India because it seemed to me to be a just one big joke, a very sick joke. People like Rajneesh were practicing nothing but sexual pranks and pseudo-psychology as the means of awakening this energy, which of course it doesn’t do. In fact, what happens is the very deities that William Doble has just spoken of recede from those centers in a very very angry way, and you feel fire and burning and all sorts of negative experiences at the hands of these “gurus”. I came to the conclusion very clearly that I wandered away from this situation. In fact, I very quickly came to the conclusion that these must be, in fact, the antichrists. Because the very thing that I had been seeking, that very beautiful experience of Self-realization, was at best no more than a promise, and at worst was, in fact, absolute damage to either the psyche or the physical body. And so, I was about to come home, I had my flight booked back, and I also had the telephone number of Shri Mataji. I telephoned to Her. Something in me said, “Give one more a chance,” and this precisely what I did. I went to Her. In fact, I gave Her a telephone call, and at the other end was a very warm, loving voice, who simply invited me to come over and to meet Her. And this I did, in Bombay. And after a very beautiful hour or so in which there were grandchildren scrambling all over Her, in which there were all sorts of very very normal things happening around Her, She invited me to come to the Sahaja Yoga center in Bombay and to experience the realization that I’d been seeking. By that time I was feeling very relaxed, I was feeling calm, and I certainly wanted to experience what She had to offer. I hope you bear with me in telling this story because it’s a story which lies behind the pain and the agony which so many people have suffered in their seeking, in their disillusionment with their seeking, and it reflects just one such person who — but for the grace of God, but for the grace of the Mother — would perhaps have been lost in this round of human existence. We’re at a crisis point. All the great incarnations have spoken of the great time of confusion, of the time when there would be these antichrists on the earth. They are here — to seduce the seekers. These are very strong words, but they are here to seduce the seekers. They’re here to mesmerize, they’re here to confuse. And we have every evidence of it. From Pune, there has been one gentleman — if we can call him that — who has had to run away. The BBC did a documentary on the subject called “The god who ran away”. And they call him Bhagwan. And he’s now settled down in Oregon, in America. And the American government don’t want him either: they’ve given him a deportation order. He might come here. You people should take a responsible stand. There is another one who claims to be the incarnation of the Lord Jesus Christ. He was a little fat boy who, at the age of sixteen, started a mission. First he married his secretary who was nineteen, then he had a squabble with his mother and his brother, and they wrangled for the position of power. And finally he settled down in Denver City and in Florida, and he has literally thousands and thousands and thousands of people who are awaiting so-called knowledge, whatever that might be. There are so many. There is one “guru” who lives in Bangalore, who plucks diamonds out of the air and offers them to American tourists. He calls himself the incarnation of Kalki. He’s a man known to have certain sexual deviations, which have been written up extensively by many people who’ve been there. There’s a man who died recently called Muktananda, who died of a massive heart attack. What great saint would die of a massive heart attack? What great saint would need a bypass valving his heart for the last fifteen years? What man who called himself a saint would have a dirty disease? I ask us all to be very rational about this, to use our brains and to openly oppose these false gurus. Take a stand on the subject because they are the ones who are going to damage these young people who are coming up in the world today. Many of us — I’m forty-seven years of age — many of us at this age, all right, we’ve made our mistakes. With the grace of Mother, those mistakes are going to be repaired. The effects are going to be neutralized, the damage is going to be fixed up. Not so much from these false gurus, not so much from them, because we missed out, thank God, but many of the young people today are part and parcel of this whole mesmeric nightmare that’s going on against our evolution. And we owe it to the young people, who are in their twenties, in their teens, and the young children, who could be very seriously damaged. Mataji, as you know, speaks openly against these fake gurus. She has done, since Her message began in 1970, She has named them, She has said who they were in their previous births. She has warned the sort of diseases that they cause in the seekers, many of which She has had to cure. So, in contrast to that beautiful optimistic potential, which we all have, and which Mother has granted to most of us, so many of the people who miss out and do not get their realization, contrary to our possibilities, so many people are going to be lost. And I urge each and every one of you people who get your realization, who develop their realization, to take a stand, to speak out against these people. When you hear them come to your city to lecture, when you hear people conversing about them, when you hear people defending them, take a stand. How many people sitting in this audience may have been someone in the crowd at the time of the Lord Jesus Christ and did not have the courage that even Peter may have had? How many of us can sit comfortably in the chair and say that “I will take a stand when it comes to this nonsense that’s going on in the society, when it’s anti-God in its nature and its effect”? As I said, I’m a professional person. All Sahaja Yogis are professional people or, in some sense, working people, in a very very normal way. And we don’t believe in stupid attitudes and practices such as sannyas, wearing clothes that are specially designed for the guru, giving him Rolls-Royces, a hundred other, rather ridiculous tactics that are employed. We reject this nonsense. And in its place we have Mother. Mother, who is the one who Christ spoke about as the one who would come as the Counsellor, the Comforter, the Holy Spirit who would teach us all things. She’s the one who can do the job, in a very very simple way, as I said last night. You feel this manifestation of the cool wind of the Holy Spirit you feel it on your central nervous system, consciously. You begin to have the manifestation which all the great teachers who came on this earth said we had to look for. Mohammed said it is the Ruh that has to be looked for. And Bill has spoken of all the others. “At this resurrection time our hands have to speak” — all of these things. We have so many Muslims, Hindus, Christian, Buddhist — people who belong to Sahaja Yoga and who now have finally been liberated from that limitation of any one sect, or denomination, or group. This is the long-awaited experience, which you’ve all been waiting for. As I said, so many of you have probably been a Christian, a Jew, a Hindu; you’ve probably stood in the crowd — silently, knowing the truth — in those incarnations where you’ve been seeking. Now you’ve come to this point in your evolution where all you have to do is, by the grace of God, by the grace of God, get it. In the form of the Mother, that grace has come. That grace flows on your hands, it flows from the top of your head. It neutralizes negativity, it dissolves all those things in us which are against our evolution, and it gives us the bliss, that is the Spirit. Ladies and gentlemen, again I introduce to you Her Holiness Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi.

Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi:

To all the seekers of truth I bow. Dr. Reeves has spoken rather strongly today. I think he is a very great Australian to have that kind of a wisdom to see through the nonsense and the mockery that people were inflicting on simple naive seekers from abroad. It requires a great intelligence and common sense to see through that. But the greatest of all is the desire to do good to others, to be touched by the agonies of others, to be upset what others are suffering. This is the biggest thing, that really brings you to the right point of understanding. What he said is absolute truth. I’ve been to all these gurus to find out what they have been up to. And they have been telling everyone that “She was my disciple.” Another said, “She was my disciple.” I just wanted to find out what are they doing to these people, how are they grabbing them, and what are they managing. I knew the divine path, I knew the holy path, the pure path, but I didn’t know the path of the crooks, of the antichrist, and actually I had to find it out Myself.

And that’s how I went to all these people in a garb that “I have come to learn” — they never recognized Me. What you do and all those things. And that’s how I have been able to find out methods, in the permutation, combinations of your barriers, how to achieve en masse realization. In the beginning of My life, I started with normal, common people, intelligent people, educated people in all walks of life. I had to go through various types of phases, in which I met all types of people, and I could, through My subtle methods, find out what are the barriers. But the worst of all, which concerned Me the most of all, was that the great seekers of the ancient times have gone into such mesmerism, into such ego-pampering processes that how will they retreat back? It was a big concern to Me.

I have tried — after getting so many normal people first to Sahaja Yoga, then to these combinations — I must confess that it is not easy to give realization to people who have been to those gurus. Day in and day out I have to work out the permutations and combinations of barriers, of terrible barriers within them. It’s not an easy thing, but, thank God, I have achieved it by My own love and concern. Still I must tell you: those who belong to some guru are very difficult people for realization. Last year in Melbourne we had about, I think, fifty people like that, and it was impossible to give them realization; and they even tried their level best — they found it difficult to get it, while a drunkard could get it in no time, an alcoholic could get it in no time, a prostitute could get it in no time. Can you imagine? What harm is done within yourself that it is not easy to give them realization! And even if they get realization — because they are so ego-oriented — they fall back. They mock, that’s the only thing they can do. They are least bothered about their own realization. They are not bothered. They are identified with that idea that they belong to some sort of a cult, and they always try to be with them.

Even in Perth we went, then in Adelaide, I found these, some of them, are paid by gurus to come and disturb us. To that extent these people, who are seekers of God, are going down. They have no eyes, no sensitivity to feel what is the truth. And they are not bothered about their own well-being. This is the worst thing that is happening to them. It’s a thing of concern. Every time I have an interview anywhere — in Australia, America, anywhere — they ask Me such questions that “Why not your government stops these things? Why not your government do something about these people? They have amassed so much of money.” This Muktananda now, we have learnt, officially, he has got sixty thousand rupees worth of diamonds, and both the disciples are fighting for it. Still, you see, it is impossible for people to accept that “Whatever has happened has happened, it’s a naiveness we went into. Let us get to the real thing.” They just can’t think of it. And anything that guru says, they listen to it, not even logically think about it. Moreover, if you talk to them, they don’t know anything about reality.

Now, as you have seen Warren, then you have seen William, there are all these Sahaja Yogis who are equipped with complete knowledge about Kundalini, how to give realization and how to cure people, what are the problems. I mean, William, I had never told him anything about it as such. But he has given realization to so many people in your Melbourne. So you start manifesting your own powers, and you don’t live on some sort of an ego that you belong to some cult or anything, but you belong to yourself. Every individual becomes a beautiful flower. That’s what we have to expect within ourselves. That’s what really you are seeking. Not to be called into this guru or that guru but your own guru within yourself — is your Spirit, is the Shiva’s Spirit within you. Today, of course, he has already told you about these three centers which I would like to deal with you.

The first center that I dealt and the second and third are very important, but these higher centers are playing a very vital role in our being. The one which is the Heart center is looking after the security of God’s children. When a person sees something horrible, this center starts pulsating fast. Till the age of twelve years, the sternum bone, which is placed in the ribs here, as you know, creates antibodies to fight any invasion within, whether mental, emotional, or physical. These antibodies get distributed, till the age of twelve years, throughout your body. And when this sternum gets the message, it starts shaking, and it conveys, communicates, through no … nerves or arteries or veins — any connection known so far — to these antibodies that they should all fight. They fight the disease, they fight also the things what you call possessions. They also fight your own mistakes. That’s why this is a very important center within us.

If a lady is an insecure woman, if she feels insecure, then this center is always in a pulsating mood. And that’s how it makes all the antibodies very tired, because they are all the time in a state of emergency. Also these cults have used this method of putting people onto emergency: give them exercises where they jump, jump, jump, or something like that. Now, you can ask any doctor, this kind of jumping without any support can create impotency in a personality. Now, this is very physically used method by these people, to make them nervous by making this center go very fast. Now, when these antibodies are tired, they become absolutely numbed down, and they cannot find any strength to fight any aggression. Now, in everyday life also, if some lady, as I told you, is nervous, and she has problem, and she’s always afraid, then what happens — that this system starts exerting itself too much; ultimately it gets sick, and then she can develop a disease called the breast cancer.

This breast cancer is very common nowadays among women in the West. Because the motherhood of the lady is challenged. This center is bestowed upon by the deity of Mother of the Universe. And when the lady finds that her motherhood is challenged, then she starts feeling very nervous, this center goes into over-activity, and then she developed this cancer of the breast, troubles of the breast, all kinds of such troubles. Because the antibodies have become now very weak. On the left-hand side of this center is the center what we call as the left Heart center. But beyond that is residing the Spirit, in your heart, in the organ, separated from everyone. The Spirit is the reflection of God Almighty within yourself. And the Kundalini is the Holy Ghost, which is the Power of God, which is the Primordial Mother, expressed within you as the Kundalini. So we have got within us that power, shakti, and the Shiva, sitting in your heart. So this Kundalini has to rise to give you realization. The baptism, the real baptism. Not an artificial one.

Now, how it can happen in a person is a problem. It used to happen. What knowledge I am telling you is not the knowledge of today. Is the knowledge of very very ancient times. Fourteen thousand years back, Markandeya, a great poet in India, has written about it. After that there were many other poets who wrote about it, till, in the sixth century, Adi Shankaracharya very clearly wrote about the Kundalini and its awakening. Nobody has said so far, from those ancient writers, that Kundalini gives you any problems, or she makes you dance, jump and all that — is all modern nonsense. Traditionally, nobody has said so. Sixth century is the time when Adi Shankaracharya incarnated on this earth. Buddha got His realization without doing any dancing or anything. You know for definite.

So this new idea of all these happenings come by a generation of these horrible people in the last fifty years. I would say there has been a Holy Trinity as well as a Unholy Trinity. These people preceded the others who were to come, to execute what they wanted to do. These antichrists had two type of things, because … how to neutralize also the writings of the ancient times. Like Freud — was one of them. There are some more. They came down like this and wrote some things to uproot human beings completely, first of all, from reality. And then another lot came in for using that as a written thing for them — because writing is something great — and then preaching what these people have preached, using that as a base to express themselves.

You see, all hand-in-gloves knowledge. But if you read any ancient book — which many are not translated… Because nobody’s interested in that! They diverted all our attention from the sublime to absolutely wretched life. And this uprooting has taken place because these are antichrist activities; they are all joined together, they never talk against each other, that’s one thing great about them. And Christ has said that Satan is not going to talk against his own house. They praise each other, meet each other, I’ve seen them behaving like that. Give them presents, this one gives presents to another — big fraternity exists between them. Great fraternity, no problem between them. But the real saints in India, who are living in the forest and Himalayas, into the hills and dales, I should say, hidden away from … you people, are just quite aware that these are antichrist.

The first thing that happened when these people started manifesting themselves — India is very good at astrology, so, as soon as their birth date came in, they just cast their… horoscope and said, “Now let’s see what’s in their horoscope.” So, most of them changed their birth dates also. Nothing consistent! And when you ask them, “Why are you not consistent?” they said change is the way the life is. But that is life. You are talking of something eternal. How can eternal change? It’s very difficult to make people take to eternal life than to make them take to just mundane life. You know that. Now, see, there’s a show on today. How many cars there are! And how many people there are to see that! But to take to real life, it takes time, otherwise why is it all the great saints and all the great prophets and incarnations were tortured by human beings? Why did they torture them? So this is one of the things one has to realize — that the Spirit resides in your heart. Which is the Sat-chit-ananda, as they say — is the one which is the truth, which is the attention, and which is the joy.

Now, first of all, we must understand what is attention. What is “God who is an attention”, what does that mean. “God who is the attention” means God knows about everything that’s happening. He is aware of what is happening in this world. He’s the only spectator of the drama of life, which is created by His Power, the Primordial Mother. He knows each and everything about us; whatever He wants to know, He can find out, there is no problem about it. So He is the knower, and He is the knowledge too. So, when we become realized, we have to know through our awareness: we have to become collectively conscious. And this is a very important point which we must remember. It’s not very difficult to understand that you have to become something more. Only by wearing some dress or putting something in your neck what do you become?

Some people tell Me, “We lead a very good life, Mother, so it should be all right.” But “good life” is according to your concept. Even according to the divine concept, if it is a good life — for what? Everybody will ask, “For what? Why do you want to lead such a religious life, for what? What is the need to have such a life?” One should ask oneself, “Why to lead such a life which is so conditioned?” The answer is, you have to have balance to ascend. If you do not ascend, what’s the use of building up this balance within you? The purpose is to ascend. If you cannot transcend, then this is just a binding, your mental projection that you should lead this kind of life and that kind of life. It’s just your mental process.

But when the Spirit ascends, then all the religions are born within you. They get enlightenment. You just don’t do things which are wrong. Just don’t do it, you just don’t like it. As we have told you that there are people who gave up their drugs and things overnight. Is a fact! Because, as soon as this happens, the enlightenment brings forth complete new awareness which refuses to have anything that is not good for this body. You just have the things that are good for your body, for your life. You don’t have to fight with yourself that “Oh God, how will I give up?” In the morning you say, “I will not drink in the night,” but in the night you drink. So, in the beginning there is no need in Sahaja Yoga today to say that “Don’t do this and don’t do that.” There’s no need at all. Once it is enlightened within you, you just look after yourself. But when the Spirit starts coming in your attention, you become collectively conscious, and you know. You know, again.

It’s not mental projection. You know about yourself. You know what centers are catching, on your fingers you can tell. Fingertips, you can say. You know on your fingertips. And you know about others also. And also, if you really learn the complete technique — which is very easy to learn, within a week you can learn it — you can help another and yourself very well to rise above this level to a higher level. People have all kinds of fears these days. It’s a very abnormal situation. They don’t have any joy. Only fear. They live with fear. They were telling Me there’s a person who cannot live out in the space, then there’s fear of even building bad oxygen, then they have fear of germ touching them, and all those things are there. They have lost confidence in life.

By awakening of this center within you, you become absolutely a normal person. You have no fears. Because nothing that is wrong can attack you. You are well prepared for it. There’s a strength within you which really makes you very confident. That’s why this center is very important for us to know that this center gives us that strength, that confidence. The other day — every program — they asked Me another question: “What do You think about Australians?” Which is a very very common question, I’ve found. I said that they are great people, very nice people. But they lack only one thing — is complete confidence in themselves. They haven’t got that confidence that they should have. They are not aggressive people, they are not worried about aggressing other territories or anything. But a kind of a diffidence is still in them which they should get rid of it. Completely. You are the people who belong to God.

And why should you have any diffidence about it? But this diffidence is completely finished when you get this center awakened within you. To get this center awakened, you have to do nothing. The Kundalini herself rises, and if you have any problem in that center, she comes back; again she rises with a greater force and hits there, opens it out and awakens the deity of that center, so that you feel very confident. Today, if you see, Dr. Warren so confident. I must tell you, he was not, he was quite diffident. He thought you all are going to beat him when he tells you all these things. But today he’s a changed man.

Now, we have on the right-hand side of this, is another part of the center, which we call as right Heart. This center is the father’s center, and the left Heart is the mother’s center. So, if your fatherhood is challenged in any way — or, also, husband-wise, we can say it like that — if a husband is not loyal to his wife and is playing tricks with her, he gets this into trouble. But physically, he feels it very much because he gets asthma. Asthma one develops, but this is more a center of the father.

If the fatherhood of a person is not all right, for example, if a girl has lost her father and she has never seen him, she might develop asthma. If the grandfather had the asthma, the grandchild might develop the asthma. It comes from the father’s side. Anybody who has asthma problem should know that there’s something wrong in the fatherhood side. Maybe the father is sick and you are worried, maybe you are a good father, but the son is not all right, so you are suffering — anything like that, you see, could be responsible for this asthma. But if the deity here is awakened, you can be all right, and you can get rid of your asthma, quite all right. On the left-hand side is the center of your mother. If the mother has died very early, such a person is a nervous person, and such a person also doesn’t trust anyone. He can become secretive by nature, sulking type. He may not open his heart to anyone, because he doesn’t trust anyone.

Some people who have no mother, whom they have not known, can become extremely cautious by nature because they think they have to look after themselves. Extremely cautious. But with Sahaja Yoga, you can awaken this center, and you become a complete personality, without any fear, without any nervousness, and without any malice to your parents. Actually, after Sahaja Yoga, I’ve found, many people who have just forgotten their parents, had been very angry with their parents, given them up, could not forgive them — went back to their parents. We had a French girl in England who had not seen her mother for eighteen years, and the mother was alone, a widow lady. But after the realization, she has a tremendous feeling; she went back and looked after her mother, and also started doing Sahaja Yoga there.

It’s not … it’s a very very common thing that you start expanding your heart to others. You start loving other people, you start understanding them. I know of a man in America — I gave him realization — and he said, “Most surprising, I went to the race this time. I said this would be the last I go to the race. And there I find my uncle, and I wished him; and he was amazed, he started looking at me, because I had not wished him all these years at all. He just started, he was quite amazed at my attitude. And now he has become a great friend of mine.” So the friendship — which is a pure friendship, this homosexual and all nonsense — but a pure friendship based on pure relationship develops. And then you don’t feel insecure.

In a society where even a mother’s love is challenged, one would feel extremely insecure in a thing like that. If a mother has to love the child, she has to think, “I hope there is no bad feeling in my mind.” In America it happened: there was a little boy of eight years, just a little boy of eight years. And her mother said that she has started taking lot of drugs and things, and these drugs have created a problem for this little boy of eight years, can you imagine?

So I couldn’t bear it, I just took the boy to My heart, and I kissed him. He said, “Mother, this is never done to me by my mother.” So I asked the lady, “Why didn’t you do this to your child? He’s only eight years of age, doesn’t he love your care, and your expression of your love?” So she said, “Mother, I feel guilty.” I said, “How?” — “Freud has said…” Freud was a perverted useless fellow! He died of cancer, look at his life! These psychologists, when they come in contact with others, people who are suffering from pathological troubles — they are pathological cases — and when they deal with pathological cases, they don’t know how to protect them. Jung has said about it. Then they catch those diseases among themselves, and they start generalizing this for everyone. They have generalized, it’s an absurd thing! In Rome, there was a girl who came to Me, she said, “Ah, psychologists, horrid, horrid, horrid!” I said, “What happened?” — “They are telling me I have bad eyes towards my father. I felt like beating them!” It’s all absurd things, you see, to create — this is anti-Christ — to create a feeling of enmity, that everything is perverted, polluted. It’s so pure!

In India nobody can understand this. Thank God this Freud and all these people just touched the periphery of India, and it’s like an elephant: so nobody is there, and it’s just gone … nobody believes in it. So, I have to tell you this, that there is no such thing as polluted relationship or bad relationship. It’s all pure relationships. We must understand we are not animals. Even animals have got sense, so do you think we won’t have the sense of purity within us and holiness within us? So all these ideas also drop out completely, and you develop a personality. You live with others: in the ashram now we have many girls, boys, this — they’re all are like brothers and sisters. There is no problem on that.

Now, we have the other centre, which we call as the Vishuddhi Chakra. This is a very very important center which is bestowed upon by Shri Krishna Himself. The right Heart by Shri Rama, and left Heart by Uma, or we can call Her the wife of Shiva; while the centre Heart is bestowed upon by the Mother, called Jagadamba, who is the one who helps people to cross this ocean of illusion, and to protect them. This is the Divine Mother. The other day you were asking Me about Divine Mother — this is one of the glimpse of Her.

So now the other center which we have here is very important center, called as the Vishuddhi Chakra. This is the center Vi-shuddha. One is “shuddha”, means “pure”, but “vishuddha” means “absolutely pure”. This has got sixteen petals, as we have got the cervical plexus expressed in the gross, which has also got sixteen sub-plexuses. It tallies with medical science completely. Now, this Vishuddhi Chakra is bestowed upon by the deity of Shri Krishna. Shri Krishna is the one which is the evolution of the Vishnu Tattwa [Vishnu Principle] from there upward to the state of Primordial Being. He is the one who resides as the Primordial Being, as the Whole, as the Akbar. When Mohammed Sahib talked of Akbar, he talked of Shri Krishna. This is the finger which represents this center, and He said: “Put these into your ears and say ‘Allah hu Akbar’ — you get in connection with the Virat.”

Now, what Sahaja Yoga does is to make you in contact with the whole. It makes you in contact with the whole. It’s not that it limits you, but it makes you one with the whole. So one must understand that what you have to achieve in your realization is just not talk of Shri Krishna, just thinking, singing about — which is absurd! People don’t understand! That in Oxford Street we find people with all these nonsensical things going on; begging, asking for alms… I feel it’s such an insult to Shri Krishna that people in His name are begging. But it’s done in all religious movements that people beg in the name of God. There is no need to beg. First you equip yourself with the blessings of God that there is no need for you to beg at all. And begging is against God’s realization, against Self-realization. You must have self-esteem. That’s one thing very important. If you do not have self-esteem, you cannot get realization. Why should you go on the streets and beg? It’s absolutely absurd, it’s a showing-off thing, which is of no use to yourself. By doing this, you are really corrupting the name of Shri Krishna. But if you take to the right path, if this center is awakened, your hands become connected with the Primordial Being, and you become, your hands become collectively conscious. Medically, they accept that the extremities have got something to do with the sympathetic nervous system. That far, no more than that.

But in Sahaja Yoga, you’ll be amazed that the vibration starts flowing through your hand when you take the name of Shri Krishna. And these vibrations, when you want to find out what are these, then you’ll be amazed they relate to your centers within yourself. Even if you get ten children who are realized souls, and tie their eyes, and ask them about a person who is sitting before them what’s wrong with him, they will say one finger, or this finger, or this finger, or two fingers. Because you can feel the charring, you can feel sometimes a kind of a heat. Sometimes you may feel the numbness. If you feel the numbness on your fingers, then you must know that the person has to die. So many things you can know, all the permutations of these seven centers and this one: one, five, and … six and seven. So we have seven centers.

To understand about the centers, first you must get your realization, that is important. In the beginning you’ll find the vibrations are coming, going, coming, going. It is not steady. First you must steady yourself. Then you can find out, from your hands, what are the centers catching. Because these vibrations are nothing but the Power of God is flowing through you. They understand, these vibrations, they co-ordinate. They are life’s force. They are the one who create all these living things like … they are the one who sprout a seed, they are the one who transform the flower into a fruit. All living work is done by these vibrations, which is called as Chaitanya, Aum, Ruh, cool breeze of the Holy Ghost, and all-pervading Power of God. That starts flowing through you, first time you feel them. Yesterday many people felt it, and people were very happy that so many felt it, because that’s a sign that here many people are going to get realization. You don’t have to go to anybody, you have to just practice a little bit and find out. You’ll become such an expert! One person in India who got realization has so far given realization to at least ten thousand people. In a village. Many villages. He’s a very ordinary man. We wanted him to come, but there was a kind of a visa problem, so he could not come. He’s a very simple farmer, and he got his realization, and he knows so much about Sahaja Yoga that you’ll be amazed; he has not been to any university, to any college or anything, but he’s so knowledgeable. Because once you have these vibrations they guide you. So the Spirit sitting in your heart guides you and tells you what is right and what is wrong. If you have to ask a question: “Mother, is there God?” — if you ask this question, immediately there will be a tremendous flow saying that it is there.

Now, how to understand that these are the vibrations of God, also this question can come. We can judge them relatively. For example, in one of the programs in Pune, people invited Me to speak in a place which was owned by brahmins, and they opposed it. They said, “She’s not a brahmin, so we will not have her here.” So they said, “All right, we’ll publish in the newspaper — because Her name has gone in the newspaper — we’ll tell them that these people are so ‘brahminic’ that they don’t want to have Her.” Of course, they didn’t want to have that bad name, so they said, “All right, let’s have her.” These people never told Me what had happened. Suddenly I said, “Those who think who are brahmins, come down.” So four-five of them came and sat before Me. These are brahmins without knowing the Brahma! So I said, “All right, put your hands before Me.” And they just started shaking like this, going back. I said, “What’s happening to you?” So they said, “Mother, you are Shakti, that’s why it is happening to me, to us,” but I said, “What about others? It’s not happening to others.” So they turned round and said, “Look at these, they are also doing like this.” I said, “Ask them from where do they come.” They went and asked them; they said, “We are coming from the lunatic asylum of Thane.”

So these fanatics, who believed that they were brahmins, were reacting the same way as these lunatics. And they believed that they were brahmins, they were not supposed to touch anybody, they were “untouchables” people, and they were … the one who gave them realization was from so-called untouchable, a shoemaker. Now he’s become their guru, of all these brahmins, and he’s teaching them about God. So this center gives you the power to be one with the whole. It has many powers, but the main power it gives you is the power to be one with the whole and to have all the powers of that deity within you awakened, so that you can become aware and make others also aware of it. Those people who talk too much catch on the right Vishuddhi, those who do not talk at all catch on the left. Those who feel guilty catch on the left, those who think they are all right and aggressive, they catch on the right. It’s like that. So this has to be understood in right perspective: that if you misuse this center, what happens to you, so how you should give yourself a balance to improve that.

But the best part of Sahaja Yoga is this: that when you get them realization, they are separated from themselves. They’ll come and tell Me, “Mother, my Agnya Chakra is catching.” So, if you ask them, “Really?” — “Yes, Mother, very much.” That means they are suffering from too much ego. But can you imagine anybody saying, “Mother, I’m suffering from too much ego”? Because you are separated from yourself, you see your ego, the big balloonic-like thing, and you say, “Mother, please remove my ego.” That is how people talk to Me. They will tell Me: “Mother, I talk too much, that’s why my right Vishuddhi is catching. You better cure it, I must stop my talking too much.” So you start correcting yourself because you get separated from yourself, you become the Spirit; and the rest you see. Like I see My sari: if there’s a spot, I would like to clean it, I’m not identified with the spot. So, that’s how it happens; you are no more identified with yourself, and you start seeing the faults in you, and you try to correct it. That’s how you become a beautiful person — by your own attention, not by anybody else, it is you who has to do it.

Now, we have a very important center here called as Agnya Chakra. This is bestowed upon by the great incarnation of Lord Jesus Christ. We have no idea as to how this incarnation has come on this earth. Because if you just read Bible, it is a little bit of Christ we see. They allowed Him to live only for about four years to talk to people; within four years He was killed. So He had no time to tell you all about it. But He did the job what He was supposed to do and which He achieved in His lifetime. But if you read some books, in other scriptures like Devi Mahatmyam, where the Goddess was the one who created Him — and how She created, and what She did to Him, and everything is given in detail — and in every detail, you’ll be surprised, is the life of Christ. Only thing, there He is called as Mahavishnu and not as Christ. But even the name of Christ comes to Him from the same heritage which I was telling you: that His name was Yeshu, not Jesus, because, in the Bible, I get Myself confused when I read that Anna was not Anna, it was Hannah, John was Johann — every name has been corrupted in the English Bible.

In the same way they have corrupted Christ’s name, Yeshu, into Jesus. Actually, they call Him — some people, of course — call Him Jesu. This is the name given to Him by Shri Radhaji, the one who was the power of Shri Krishna. She’s the one who gave Him this name because She was very much indebted to the foster mother of Shri Krishna, who was Yeshoda, and that’s why She called Him Yeshu. “Yeshu” is the word in Hebrew language, and we call Yeshoda as Yeshu; also some people, in a … what you call … in a country language, also call the same thing as Jesu. You know that Y and J is always sort of brought together in that way: like Yugoslavia, we call it — they call it Jugoslavia. So His name Yeshu came from that, and that’s how He was created a special one. In the Devi Mahatmyam it is said that Krishna has said that “You will become the support of the universe.”

Now, in India, people and seers were waiting for Mahavishnu to come and tell them that, Mahavishnu has been born. But the people who went to India, they had Bible in one hand and the pistol in another hand, or a big gun, or maybe a huge big cannon. And that’s how they entered India, and they said that “You must get converted.” Now, what is a “conversion” God only knows. You can take a donkey and put a thing on that [Shri Mataji indicates across forehead] “You are a Christian” — you don’t become a Christian. That’s how they spread Christianity throughout India, which was all absurd type of Christianity. I was also born in one of the Protestant Christian families. My father was a realized soul, My mother was another, they were very learned people. And My father told Me, “God, look at this now, what are these Christians doing to Christ!” And he was the one who fought for Independence, he went to jail, My mother went to jail, and he was member of our constituent assembly, parliament and all that, but Christians only started recognizing him when he became a member of something or a mayor of a place. They had no other idea of a person, that somebody has Spiritual endowment or any sort of a Spiritual powers. Now, in our family, we were very much with Gandhiji, all of us; we had sacrificed a lot for the country, and My father decided to marry us all out of community, not among Christians, because he thought these Christians are so much worshipping these missionaries: they would even pray for their health, the health of their dog, and health of their umbrellas. It was such a wretched condition of these Christians in those days; I mean, they were so dedicated to these missionaries. The missionaries were only busy converting people.

Now, this Mahavishnu Tattwa — the one who was born as Christ — was never understood, never told, they never read anything about it they never found out. So, Indians believed that so far Mahavishnu is not born, and so it continued with the idea that we have to still go on. Because in the principle Mahavishnu it was written that “Not only You will be the support of the universe, but You will have such purity within You,” — because He is the Omkara, He’s the Chaitanya, He’s the vibrations, that’s why He could walk, that’s why He was resurrected — that it was said that when His Advent will come, He will cross this path — this is the cross, the resurrection part — and, by His advancement, He will be able to suck in the ego and superego within you, the karmas, the conditionings, the ego in you, by which people will get their realization. So Indians continued with the idea that “We have to still pay for our karmas, Mahavishnu has not come.” Because of misrepresentation. Once I told them that Christ was Mahavishnu, you see, thousands are getting realization because they believe in Mahavishnu, they of course respect Christ very much, but they did not know that He was Mahavishnu; if He’s Mahavishnu, it’s perfect! And that’s how He was enlightened, and He got – the people got their realization in no time. Because they are educated in it, they know what it is. You see, these missionaries just read some Bible in some schools and all that and came down. But they did not know how to correlate the whole thing. You see, it cannot be truth just in Bible, it has to be everywhere. And that is what happened when they came down and they told us something which was not Christ.

Now, this thing happens to us also: that when Kundalini rises, Christ is born within you here, He’s awakened within you. And when He is awakened, the ego and superego both are sucked in, and you get a space here; and when you get that space here, the Kundalini shoots off, and that’s how you feel the cool breeze on your head. I have given at least seven lectures continuously on Christ in a church called as Unity Church. It was, again, the unity and fraternity of all the horrible people. They were preaching about Rajneesh, preaching about … at least Rajneesh is antichrist, anybody can see. When Christ has said: “Thou shalt not have adulterous eyes” — to that extent His purity has gone — how can you accept Rajneesh as a guru for any Spirituality? But they had books from all kinds of horrible people. They had no books which were ancient books with them, nothing, no knowledge of any kind! Indians don’t depend — the real Indians, I mean, not the westernized pseudo-Indians who have been to Cambridge and Oxford — but those who are real Indians don’t depend on these books: they think it’s all trash that has come and will go away, it has no meaning. And they had all these books put there to destroy. Really the unity within us lies — when you become collectively conscious. All this work has been done in the ancient times. As Mohammed was one of the Prophets who came, out of the ten Prophets: Moses, Abraham, Lao Tse … then we had also people like other Prophets … Socrates… Recently, we had in India the last one, is the Sai Nath — not the “Satya” one, but the Sai Nath — who lived … who was representing this great principle of Primordial Master.

So this is the story of your evolution. The last is the most important center, is the Sahastrara, which is open today, open from 1970, 5 May, that we can feel the Sahastrara opening out. About this center also, if you go to My center, you’ll find many, many tapes which will explain to you this center. The only thing is that all the seats of all the subtle centers within us lie along the line like this. And all the centers are within us. This is the Agnya Chakra. And that’s how it moves: this is the Vishuddhi Chakra, this is the Heart, this is the Nabhi, what you call the solar plexus; then we have got, in the center here, is the Mooladhara, and around it is what you call the Swadhishthana. That’s why when Swadhishthana goes out or you get diabetes, you get blindness. Blindness is due to the fact that your Swadhisthana is not all right. Many people get blind when their eyes open — can be cured by Sahaja Yoga. In Geneva I cured a lady in ten minutes time. It’s all due to possessions that you get here. Coming to the Agnya Chakra, one has to say that all these chakras have movement on both the sides: one moves to the collective subconscious, another moves to the collective supraconscious.

Now, if at the Agnya Chakra you start moving like that, in the collective subconscious you start seeing all the dead things: like great deities, or you can also start think … past, we can say. If you move to the right, then you start seeing colors, and also you start seeing lights and all those things. With LSD also you can do it. If you take LSD … many people who used to take LSD and were suffering from coma just came to Me, and they just never saw Me, they just saw the lights. So, that is not the right thing to see Me as light or as some previous deity — is to see Me as I am, is the present. So we have to be in the present. Sahaja Yoga brings you to the present moment, by which you enjoy every moment of life in its all dynamics, and that’s how you become a dynamic, loving, affectionate, relaxed personality. May God bless you all!

Thank you very much, three days have been very good. I would expect you also to come on Sunday morning — not at seven o’clock as he said but at ten o’clock — Sunday morning to our ashram, which he will tell you the address. Please come along, and you can also have your lunch with us. I hope we’ll be able to cook something for all of you. Because this is your Mother’s house, and in a mother’s house you must at least eat your food. That’s what it is. It’s very personal, it’s very intimate, it’s not like the guru sitting on the seventh storey and all everybody bowing to him, it’s not like that. It’s absolutely personal, individual, and everybody is given full, proper attention and respect in Sahaja Yoga. May God bless you!

Today we’ll not have any questions, because we have had too many of them before and wasted lot of time. Let us have it without questions; without asking anything you can get your realization. So tell your mind to ask questions later on. Once you have got realization, you won’t ask, so just tell your mind, which is working all the time and giving you some ideas, tell it to wait. Because by thinking you have achieved nothing so far, by mental conception you have not achieved anything. Because, after all, this mind is a limited thing, and you have to be triggered into unlimited space, and for that, if you think, you cannot reach there.

So, actually, first thing that happens to you — that your thought stops when the Kundalini crosses Agnya. And when you feel this cool breeze, you absolutely get calmed down and relaxed. Yesterday was a great experience for people. I’m sure today also it will work out the same way. You have to do exactly as I tell you, which is a very simple thing, you don’t have to do anything great, just take out your shoes because this Mother Earth helps us. Just take out your shoes.

Just take out your shoes, sit comfortably; if you have anything tight on your body, just remove it, but keep yourself comfortable. Put your hands on your laps. One thing is, you have to be comfortable, so that during the process you don’t feel any uncomfortable feeling. So, please just put your right hands … both the hands towards Me first of all, just hands like this. Now you have to close your eyes. Please don’t open your eyes. Because if you open your eyes, the Kundalini won’t cross the Agnya Chakra. So please don’t open your eyes till I tell you. It’s nothing is going to happen, there’s nothing to have any fear, everything is going to be all right. But I must warn: some people have a habit of showing off, and they start going into a funny … contortions and this — that is not needed at all here. It’s something that happens inside, antar-yoga. Nothing happens outside, it happens inside, so be sensible and wise. Take your realization — is the best thing that you can do to yourself and to anybody else.

So put your both the hands towards Me and just close your eyes. Just close your eyes, all of you should close your eyes. Even if you have spectacles, you can remove because it also improves your eyesight; so remove your spectacles. Sit very comfortably. Don’t worry about others, just now you have to think about yourself. Now, left hand, as he said, is the power of desire, so put it … left hand on your lap towards Me. That is not to be removed. Only use your right hand to raise your Kundalini on different chakras on the left-hand side throughout. So we put our right hand on the heart. With full confidence! Now, as I have said, you have to have confidence! On the heart. If there is anything in your pocket, you better take out, and if it’s a coat or anything, put it inside. Put it on your heart, press it a little bit and say with full confidence, “Mother, I am the Spirit.” Feel no hesitation in saying that — you are the Spirit! You are not the body, mind, and this ego, you are the Spirit.

Close your eyes, all of you, keep your eyes shut. Even if they’re not shutting, try to press them a little, they’ll shut down. They must relax. Don’t say mechanically. With full confidence, I said, please say, “Mother, I am the Spirit.” Now put down this hand on the left-hand side, on the left-hand side of your stomach. Now, this is very good for you because the principle of guru resides in the stomach area.

So you put your right hand on the stomach on the left-hand side and press it a little bit with your fingers, fingertips. At this point you have to say ten times, “Mother, I am my own guru.” Again, with great confidence and understanding and respect for yourself, with all your self-esteem: “Mother, I am my own guru.” Please put your left hand straight towards Me. Both the legs should be straight on the ground, little apart from each other. Little apart from each other. It’s good. Now. You raise your right hand now upward, again to your heart position, put it on your heart again. And now twelve times you have to say, “Mother, I am the Spirit.”

Now put the same hand on the left-hand side of your neck. Why don’t you do, is a good chance. Just try, just try, it will work out. Close your eyes. Be a little attentive, be little attentive. It will work out, it’s very simple. Right hand on the left-hand side of your neck, on the left Vishuddhi, as we call it. At this point, sixteen times you have to say, “Mother, I am not guilty,” because you have been feeling guilty for nothing at all. Sixteen times, there are sixteen sub-plexuses. You have to say sixteen times, with full confidence: “Mother, I am not guilty.” All right.

Now raise this right hand onto your forehead, after saying sixteen times. At this point, you have to say, “Mother, I forgive everyone.” Because you know this is the center of Christ, and Lord Jesus Christ has given us a prayer which is the mantra, which is the chanting of this center is, so you have to say, “Mother, I forgive everyone.” Because if we do not forgive others, God is not going to forgive us.Without feeling guilty, you have to say, “God, forgive us because we forgive all those who have done harm to us.”

Without feeling guilty, again I’m saying, without feeling guilty, with all confidence. The guilt is too much in you people. What is the guilt for, you see, what are you guilty of? As I have said yesterday, God is the ocean of love, ocean of forgiveness, ocean of compassion. Trust Him. Not to feel guilty, and say that “Mother, I forgive everyone.” Now put this hand on top of your head. On top of your head where it’s a fontanelle bone area, which was a soft bone in your childhood — and try to press it. You’ll find a little heat coming out. Now raise the hand little higher, about four inches, and see if there’s a cool breeze coming out. If not, change the hand: put your right hand towards Me and left hand on top of your head. Otherwise also you can do it. Again change over, again and again, and see if there’s a cool breeze coming out.

At this point, you have to ask for your realization. I cannot cross your freedom, so you have to say, “Mother, I want my realization.” “Mother, I want my realization”, “Please give me my realization” — anything like that. It’s all right.

Now you may open your eyes and put your hands like this, just like this. All of you put your hands and ask a question in your heart: “Mother, is this the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost? Is this the Brahma Shakti? Is this the all-pervading Power of God?” Great. The breeze you are feeling is not the breeze from any air conditioner or anything, is the breeze. Now put down your hands and see for yourself. Again I’ll tell you how to raise your own Kundalini. Please follow me. This will take about two minutes more, but it will help you to establish yourself. We have left hand in front of the Kundalini, like this, and you have to move the right hand up, forward, lower, backward, like that, you have to move. Now, start it off. Keep your eyes open, start moving your Kundalini. Other way round, other way round. Other way round. Just see how I’m doing it.

Now, take it up on your head. Take it up on your head, stretch your hands up there and give it a twist, a nice twist, and give a knot to your Kundalini. Because your hands are now powerful, you are working through your hands. Now again start it. Do it again, but do it properly; you should do it this way, as I am saying it to you, not the other way round. Now take your hand up there, give it a twist again, and give it one knot. For the third time, you have to give three knots because of three powers. Let’s do it again please. Do it with full understanding that your hands are powerful, there is power flowing through your hands. Only thing that you want — that it should be established. Now, one … it’s two … it’s three. Now see in your hands how do you feel. All right? Those who came for the last two days definitely are feeling. Even the people who came yesterday might be feeling, most of them. Those who have come for the first time may not be, but doesn’t matter, it is going to work out. You are all going to come and see Me on Sunday. I’ll be very happy to meet all of you.

Now, if you have any personal problems, you can come and see Me just now. Thank you very much. But not for a long time. It’s already nine o’clock, so for about half an hour I’ll be here. Thank you very much. But when you come on Sunday, please bring some sugar, salt, and oil with you. And water. Not too much, little bit. But not so little also, bring at least half a kilo, or a quarter of a kilo.

Just come along. You got it?

May God bless you!

Seeker: Thank You very much! I love You!

Shri Mataji: That’s your own! That’s your own, what is there to thank Me. It’s your own, it’s your own. Come along. Yes.

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi