Talk to Sahaja Yogis: How to talk to New People

Hampstead Friends Meeting House, Hampstead (England)

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 “How to talk to New People”, Friends Meeting House, 120 Heath St, Hampstead, London NW3 1DR (UK), 12 May 1983.

So I bow to all the Sahaja Yogis, and all the seekers of truth, may God bless you all. 

Is such a great thing to be back home with all of you and to see you here blooming with joy and happiness. That’s the fate of a Mother who has so many children, that she goes from places to places leaving some children behind but looking forward to meeting others. Somehow that compensates for the separation.

Today I think we should start on a very subtler ideas about Sahaja Yoga, because you people have understood it on the other plane of mechanism that works it out, the Kundalini, the chakras and all those things. But we have to see what is the problem that faces actually human beings and why we make such mistakes in our seeking. Is a very important thing to understand, because unless and until we understand why we really make mistakes or others make mistakes we can never forgive them, and we might have a kind of a high handed attitude towards others who are now coming to Sahaja Yoga, thinking that, why did they do like that, and why did they commit this mistake and they could have done better. But I personally think that if you look at yourself you will know that you also committed mistakes. Everybody has committed mistakes. Some have committed more mistakes, and some have committed less. But what is the reason why human being has been committing mistake? That’s what we should look into it. 

The first and foremost thing is without getting –
Shri Mataji speaks aside: Come along here you can sit there is a lot of space here, come along. Move on, move on, just sit in the center. Come along, come along, come along not to feel shy there’s lot of space in here. I think you’ll have to have a bigger hall now Martha? Yes, come along, come, please there’s room here you can sit down here, come along. So sweet of you. Thank you very much, so very kind of you thank you, thank you. Please make yourself comfortable come along. So how are you?
Sahaja Yogini: Very well, thank you
Shri Mataji: Congratulations
Sahaja Yogini: Thank you
Shri Mataji: May God Bless.
Are you all right there all of you?

Now those who have got Realization and those who have felt the cool breeze and have matured in Sahaja Yoga know that automatically you drop out many things, automatically. Now why do we do it, you see, why do we drop things? Even I don’t ask you for it, you just drop them, why? The reason is the light of the Spirit within ourselves empowers us to see that this is wrong. Like as we have got eyes, once we have eyes, we know whether we are going to fall here, or we are going to slip, or what’s going to happen. In the same way, when you get this vibratory awareness, it is not an awareness only of the fingers, is the awareness of the whole being and you just drop out everything that is against your Spirit. I don’t have to tell you. But without Self-Realization what happens that reality is just a myth. It’s only a mental projection with which you live. You project your mind and you think this is reality. You can call anything as reality. Any hallucination can be a reality, any theory can be a reality, any absurd ideas could be a reality. I mean all religions have taken that form now, it’s very sad. But all religions, which came from truth and from reality, are nothing but mental projections, and they’re very far away from reality. You can only feel, understand and assimilate reality if you are a self-Realized person. Unless and until this Self has expressed itself or manifested within yourself, the light has come into you, how are you to manage? Whatever you try is a mental projection. Like many people who came first: “Oh, we believe that we are born again.” All right, now how can you challenge it, if you believe into something? “I believe” is the one of the great sentences we use. But what is that I that believes? That’s that ego. That’s not your Self, because you have not yet felt the Self. So, to feel the Self is the most important thing if you have to know the reality. So, you must excuse all others who have not felt the Self, who have their own mental projections. They might look like fanatic; they might look like stupid people. They may look like to be very high handed or maybe you might think they are these ego orientated pseudo-intellectuals and all sorts of things. But all that is mythical, because that plane on which they move is mythical itself. 

Whatever you know through your mental projection is imagination itself. But Spirit is the reality, and to know the reality you have to be the Spirit. And once the Spirit starts shining within you, you just drop everything like hot brick. Like I would say, as I’ve many times told you, that in our human awareness we know what beauty is, we know what cleanliness is. For a dog, he doesn’t understand cleanliness. If you don’t give him a bath, he’ll be quite happy, actually to give him a bath is a problem. But to a human being, you see, what is a sin or what is wrong? Sin is nothing but whatever is against the Spirit, is sin. Even fear is a sin. Any such small little sins or the big sins, all are nothing, but they are all against the Spirit. But if you have not felt the Spirit, whatever you do will amount to something like anti-Spirit, because you don’t know what you are doing. 

Now the prophets have tried their level best to tell you that you must keep your balance, you have to follow a certain religion, as they call it, or as we call it dharma within yourself. But that too for what? Why to have the balance within you? People will always say: “What’s wrong?” “What’s wrong if we are not in balance, what’s there? What’s wrong in drinking?” I never said don’t drink before Realization. After Realization you yourself drop out. But they’ll say: “What’s wrong, why does he tell us like this? Why should we listen to them?” Why the balance? 

The balance is needed for the ascent. Unless and until you have a balance, how will you ascend? Imagine an aeroplane without any balance, say a wing is missing, will it be able to take off from the ground? It cannot. So, for the ascent it is necessary to have the necessary balance, so they said: “Keep in the balance.” But even when they just told simple thing to keep to the central path, to lead a life of balancing yourself or moderation in your life, in that also, the moderation part of it they have made it an extreme. Everything has been made into an extreme, because religion also they want to follow through their mental conception. That’s why you find all these religions in the mess. But I would not blame them for that because they had no other instrument to go ahead, and they wanted to go ahead. They had no other way to proceed further. So, they used only one engine they had was this mental projection, and they made all these various projections and that’s how they are so diversified and separated from each other. But as soon as your Spirit shines, then, everything drops out by itself because it is beyond mind. Spirit is beyond mind.

I don’t have to tell you anything that you must have balance, you develop a balance. If you don’t have a balance, you’ll just get vibrations in one hand, other hand will be just cold or will be hot, so you start giving you a balance. But I don’t say that give a balance means following a particular religion or anything because if I say that, half of you may run away. The beauty of Self-Realization lies in secretly working out within you, everything that is virtuous, that is beautiful, that is joyful, secretly, it doesn’t tell you. 

For example, now supposing somebody has an imbalance on the right-hand side, a very intellectual fellow, and thinking for the future and futuristic man you see, forgetting all his past. Even there are people I’ve known they have forgotten their names, and the names of their wives. But they are so futuristic. For such a person if you tell them: “Don’t think about the future”, he can’t do it because he’s put his attention like this. The whole ego portion has gone that side and he’s all looking forward to the future. But if you put him somehow or other, in a state where his Self-Realization takes place, then immediately he will say, “Mother, my right hand is burning and there’s nothing in the left hand.”
So you start talking on a very mundane way, not in a very subtle manner, you know, like all the philosophers talked. “All right that means your right is not getting proper vibrations, so you raise your left to the right”.

Now for an intellectual he can’t understand, “What is this raising left to the right.  I have read Bhagavad-Gita, I have read Bible, I’ve done Koran, I have done this, nowhere written left to the right. What do you mean by this kind of a nonsense, you see that you have to put your hand just left to the right and you get the balance?”  I cannot appeal to a mind which has been thinking about God, religion, everything, all right.  So, the secretive working of the Kundalini is such, that She goes in that portion where you need help.  She works it out and She raises you and gradually She transforms you. But if it is not awakened, if it has not yet touched the Sahasrara, means if it has not touched the feet of your Spirit, it may not be interested, it may not be interested.  

So, the first and foremost thing is to raise the Kundalini, and to let Her at least once know that She has touched the Spirit.  Then She has interest, otherwise She hasn’t got any interest.  That’s why you must have seen some people who come to Sahaja Yoga and just drop out.  The reason is the Kundalini Itself is not interested.  So, the foremost duty of every Sahaja Yogi is, first of all, not to be angry or annoyed with people who have done lots of wrong.  But be very kind to them and gentle because they are just seekers of truth.  How can you be angry with them?  Already we have lost so many of them because of their stupidity. But we must try to salvage as many as possible. And then the second duty of every Sahaja Yogi is to slowly steadily to convince the person that he should become the Spirit.  

Of course, you’ll meet so many who will be self-appointed people they’ll say, “Oh, I’ve already met the Spirit, I am the Spirit. I’m Christ.”  They can say anything, so soothe them down a little, bring them down and raise their Kundalini, but don’t leave it half way, must touch the Sahasrara. I have seen some of the Sahaja Yogis, even in India I’ve seen, they just give up. They’ll sit down, “Oh Mother forget it, we don’t want to do it, it’s like a mountain we can’t raise it.”  But we have to work, that’s what we have to do is to work it out. Raise the Kundalini, pierce through the Sahasrara, and then Kundalini will work it out.

It was a question asked to Me, “Mother that we gave Realization to so many people, out of that only about thirty percent people are coming up the rest are lost.”  The reason is you have left it half done. 

So, this is one of the reasons why we have lost some people and there is no connection still established. Now those people who come to Sahaja Yoga you have to really work hard on them.  Instead of arguing with them, because what will you argue is all mental projection.  On what point are you going to argue with them because that is not going to give them the light of the Spirit. So somehow or other work it out in such a way that they feel light of the Spirit, then talk. But we think that if we talk to them it will help. It’s not question of conviction, is the question of happening, is question of becoming, which is important.  Unless and until they become, what is the use of argument, there’s no law court here.  There is no debate going on, there is no election.  There’s nothing of the kind, it is something that has to happen to all those people that they should get their light of their Spirit. And once they get it, then it is very much easier for you to talk to them and tell them about it.

The philosophy of Sahaja Yoga is extremely simple. Is the simplest of all philosophy you can think of.  Is a very simple philosophy, is that, once you get your Realization you start feeling for the first time, the All-Pervading Power and forget everything else.  Once you get that feeling of the All-Pervading Power only you have to know how to manoeuvre it, how to work it out and how to use it for your own growth.  It is made easy; it has to be as it is the most vital force that has to take place in the realm of spirituality.

Now thank God, many gurus are exposed. Thank God many myths that were working out are being now blasted.  When I was telling you people about the promiscuousness and all those things, that this will never lead you to God but to hell, I remember when people criticized Me to be Victorian.  I mean people have ideas, which is a very Victorian ideas, and also saying that Mother is very matronly and all sorts of English language you see, that they could use about Me.  But now you see, what have recently I’ve told, thank God there have been a film showing the diseases we get by promiscuous life.  The right sane attitude towards life definitely helps you very much.  But thank God, the grace of God is so great that once you get Realization you become such a different person that everything drops out.  You are really a transformed personality and so that one should know whatever was the past is finished now, is no more there.  The egg is finished, is the bird.  And whom to blame, whom to talk about is the bird there, now let the bird find its own wings and fly.  Once you understand this simple thing of Sahaja Yoga is that we have to make everyone feels the all pervading power of God, to begin with.  Unless and until they have felt it, we have not to accept them as realized souls.  They have to feel it.

Now of course as you know if the Vishuddhi chakra is not all right they may not feel it in the hands.  But still no use if you tell them that according to us you are a realized soul but according to you, you are not feeling.  You see because the mind is working.  Instead of feeling a little disturbed about it, upset about it, they may just think that, you see, it’s just a make believe or a psychological stuff and I didn’t feel it, I’m a person of great will power, that attitude, yes, many feel like that.  So, they can be lost.  For now, as our Sahaja Yoga is increasing everywhere in the world, we have so many good Sahaja Yogis in England now.  They are sensible people and uniquely placed in this great country.  And they have to understand that wisdom is higher than intellect, and discretion is higher than debating.  Take a very kindly and a compassionate attitude towards the rest of the people, and then work it out that they should somehow or other, feel this subtle force of God’s love.  Then gradually try to bring them round and teach them what you’ve got.  Is easy to blame their ego, it’s very easy, to say, “Oh, they’re ego orientated, throw them away,” very easy to say that.  But that’s not their mistake. That’s not their doing.  It was because they never felt the Spirit before.  Whatever they have they have used that instrument whether ego or super ego and they have built up their own self, in that kind of a fort.  But this barrier can be broken very easily as soon as they get their Realization.

I found the same thing in Australia.  When I went there so many came back, so many.  And now we have everywhere quite a lot of people.  In every ashram now we have coming at least thousand to two thousand people.  We have five centers now and it’s working out very well.  Same thing is in England, we can work it out.  But I told them the same thing that reality is a different thing, and a mental projection is a different thing.  You still do not talk on that level to these people.  Because you just increase their mental projection and their barriers within them and this has helped them a lot.  And you’ll be amazed that those people who were lost have come back to Sahaja Yoga and are growing very fast within themselves.

Now for the new people I have to tell, you have to have patience with yourself.  You have to have patience.  As I have patience for you, I have love for you, I am here only because of you.  You also must have patience for yourself and full confidence in yourself that you’ll become the Spirit. If you have these two things, I’m sure it will work out.  It is going to work out.  Once you get your Realization you have to work out on other people, and gradually you will be amazed that it will grow, and it will convince you, and you will know that you have become the realized soul.  But the realized souls are very simple people.  If they say, “I am a realized soul,” nobody can believe them because there are no horns around them.  No gurudom around them, nothing of the kind, they’re extremely simple people.  So, what is going to help you is a simple attitude toward yourself and toward these Sahaja Yogis, and towards Sahaja Yoga that you have come here to become the Spirit.  We have to gain nothing from you.  There’s no clientele as such, there’s no money proposition, nothing.  It is you who have come to the Ganges, to take the holy water, it is you who has to take it.  We are here to help you.  If that attitude is developed, I’m sure, with your co-operation, we can change the face of this world.  And as William Blake* has said in this Hampstead, “We have to build up Jerusalem here.”

May God Bless you all.

Any questions you have you ask?

(Shri Mataji speaks aside: This is not a loud speaker. I think I better present you with a loud speaker. What happened, you presented one to India why don’t you get one. Further conversation about the speaker) [Shri Mataji speaks with Douglas Fry who co-ordinated all early recordings of Mother’s talks in the UK. Douglas explains to Mother that in this hall the loud speaker picks up a signal from the local police station and contaminates the recordings of Mother’s talks so he doesn’t use one here.]
Any questions to request Me? (24.20)

Seeker asks a question: – I don’t know much about this at the moment, from what I understand so far, one experiences the spirit through (unclear) therefore as some form of sensation, the cold breeze or something such as that. In relation to physic phenomena, such as spiritualists seances and the like, a similar feeling can be experiences such as a cold breeze and senses of touching, those sorts of experiences, are the actual sensations are what one regards as physic phenomena. Now how can one such as myself who is new this subject distinguish between what is a psychic phenomena and what is actually the manifestation of the Spirit itself? 

Shri Mataji: is good idea. May God bless you.
You see when they say they have felt the cool breeze the psychic people they are telling lies, simple as that.  Because the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost, that you feel, has not only the cool breeze it has its own powers.  For example, now I say there is a flame here, all right.  Now if there is a blind man also if he puts his finger around there, he will know it’s a flame isn’t it, because he can feel the heat.  In the same way this cool breeze is just to feel this cool breeze but is a dynamic stuff.  You can, when you get this cool breeze established within yourself, you’ll be amazed that under your hand the Kundalini will pulsate, it will rise, and you will feel the cool breeze of another person.  With this cool breeze you can cure diseases like cancer and many others.  With this cool breeze you can give balances to people.  Everything you can do with this cool breeze, is tremendous.  If you have any, say question, any question, supposing you are a realized soul, you want to know about a guru if he is real or not.  If it’s a psychic thing you won’t get anything.  You won’t know why psychic people are all going to parapsychology, is all wrong, it’s a horrible stuff.  This parapsychology is one of the worst things that can happen to a human being, but they don’t know what it is. There’s nothing absolute about it.  But the cool breeze is the one that gives you complete absolute idea.  Like you want to know is there God?  Ask a simple question like that, “Mother is there God?” You’ll get a cool breeze.  Now it’s so, discrimination is so great and so precise that supposing you want to know about a guru how he is, supposing he’s a devil then you might get even blisters on your hand.  You might even get tremendous heat in your hand and vibrations will stop completely.  But supposing he’s half way then you may not get such bad effects but there won’t be any breeze at all.

But supposing he’s a Realized soul, for William Blake for example, I don’t have to ask I know, but unless and until you really feel that cool breeze in your hand in a real way, also it’s coming out of your head then you should not believe that you have got a Realization, you should not believe into it.  Now they are many psychic cases I know who told Me, “We have always felt the cool breeze,” because they cannot accept it, just say, and their Kundalini just frozen there.  Nothing of the kind, I’m getting terrible heat and just praying if this person goes away for a while will be good rest for Me.  And he says, “No, no but I have felt the cool breeze.” All the time he’s telling Me lies. “I have always felt the cool breeze everywhere.” But the Kundalini is down below you can feel it yourself, you can see for yourself.  If the Kundalini is not here how are you feeling the cool breeze?  You cannot.  Is a phenomena as a result of something it’s not just a phenomena of the cool breeze.  But when the Kundalini rises above the Sahasrara then only you can feel the cool breeze.  I’ve seen many people like that.  They don’t want to accept, oh that I’ve got all this. But supposing there are people who are born Realized. There are people, some people who feel the cool breeze. (26:46) 

Now you have to differentiate between them and the unreal people. There can be some people who are born realized.  But nowadays we have decided not to tell them that they are born realized because, those who came to us we told them they’re born realized, their ego suddenly inflated like this.  You see absolutely gone cases and we lost them.  Because you see, if you are a born realized it’s nothing great, nothing great, because so many are realized.  Supposing you get Realization today all right, so you’ll be a realized soul, but you’re not a Sahaja Yogi.  Sahaja Yogi is a person who not only is a realized soul but he knows all the technique of this pure knowledge.  He knows all the laws of the Divine happening and also, he knows how to handle the Kundalini. Sahaja Yogi is a knowledgeable person the one who knows all about it.  Who knows all the permutations and combinations, who knows how to manoeuvre it and everything about it. So, he’s you can say a boy who enters into the first class. He just knows one plus one is two. But say a professor of mathematics, there’s a big difference between the two.  So even if somebody’s a born realized it’s better not to tell him that you are born realized because he suddenly thinks he has become a professor.  Imagine a little boy thinking that he’s become a professor.  It is very detrimental to him as well as to others.  So best thing is to get the cool breeze in the right sense, in the right way and understand that it works, it must work.  As you see how do you make out a real note and an unreal note?  The real note it works.  So, it’s not a myth it’s a reality, again I say it’s a reality.  Supposing this is an artificial thing it won’t work.  Anything that is artificial doesn’t work, all right?  You go to this Madame Tussaud’s place and you’ll find so many people sitting looking exactly like us you see, but they are not living, all right, you understand My point?  So, you have to master it, know it fully.  You have to master it and understand it.  You see unless and until you understand it to that extent, you cannot reach any conclusion, all right, and we have to work it out. May God Bless you.

Is not only thing that is cool breeze, where is your Kundalini, whether it has risen or not, if the cool breeze is coming out of the head.  Only a Sahaja Yogi can say, nobody can say that.  I’ve seen many people who get even the cool breeze coming out of their head they cannot feel it because their hands are not sensitive.  Only a Sahaja Yogi can say, is true.  But that doesn’t mean that a Sahaja Yogi is something out of the blue, is just like you.  Only thing is he has grown into a new awareness, which you are going to grow yourself.

What’s your problem?

Seeker: I don’t know. (UNCLEAR- Mother speaks to seeker)

Shri Mataji: Put your right hand on the Mother Earth. Tell him to put the right hand on the Mother Earth. Yes that’s it, right!

In Sahaja Yoga there are so many ways and methods how we work out all the help from all the elements, how we work it. For example, this gentleman say for example, I find his left side is overloaded.  You can ask the Mother Earth to take away the problem.  Just put left hand towards Me and right hand on the Mother Earth, you can get cured, you will feel better.  Feeling better now?  Just wait, have patience.  It will work.

Any other question?

You must see that the person is transformed.  They may say anything the person must be transformed.  He must become a saint.  And the saint is not a person who calls himself a saint, but a saintly person is that one who drops out all nonsensical things, automatically.  Nothing sticks to it. As they say, “The lotus leaf you see, if you put water on the lotus leaf the water drops out, nothing sticks to it.”  I think in England at least seventy percent or maybe say sixty percent people have been drug addicts, Sahaja Yogis, you can’t believe they were.  If not addicts they were something like that.  I used to call them druggists and chemists, but they’re different today.

Any other question please?

Seeker: Yes, I heard that raising the kundalini was dangerous (unclear) that the artificial raising of the Kundalini dangerous?

Shri Mataji: Yes first.  You see the trouble is, those who have written about it have no authority.  I have said about it many a times.  Like say a villager comes to the city and puts his hand in the plug you see, and gets a shock and says electricity is very dangerous, all right, is like that.  But Kundalini is your Mother.  You have only one Mother and She has only one son.  It’s your individual Mother.  You don’t share it even with your brother or sister.  She’s your Mother.  She doesn’t trouble you at all. She’s you’re the greatest well-wisher who’s born again and again with you waiting for this time, there’s no question.  But those who are unauthorized harm the Kundalinis of thousands of people.  People have seen that.  Because you see that’s My nature perhaps that I can do it.  But then people feel very hurt you know they can’t understand why should Mother do it. I said, “You better do it. It’s good I should retire, I’m sixty years of age is better for Me to retire, you should do it.”  But if you are doing so many things, you know I don’t know how to drive, I don’t know many things that you do.  I know one thing, how to raise Kundalini.  So, if something is difficult and is done easily means that person is a master of that.  And if that person is a master doesn’t matter there are masters of everything, all right.  So far, I haven’t seen anybody suffering because of Kundalini and should not.  But it’s not an easy thing for many people because I met some saints this time and they said, “It’s only You who can do it Mother we can’t.”  There’s a fellow called *Gaugangiri Maharaj, a very old man and he lives in a forest on top of a hill and he’s come to Me also.  And he has many disciples and one of them he told him to do this and do that you see, the balancing part of it, and he did all those things for fourteen years.  And suddenly in a program in Kolhapur he just came to see Me, and got his Realization.  He was shocked that, “Fourteen years I’ve been doing all this and I never got it and how is it in a short time I got it?”  So, he went to see Gaugangiri Maharaja so he told him about Me.  He said, “She’s different.”  So that’s how it is, and I feel rather embarrassed to talk about it, all right? *(Gaugangiri Maharaja was John The Baptist at the time of Shri Jesus)
May God Bless you.

Question by seeker: -: Just further on this point, how do you relate Your experiences or what You are talking to us about with traditional yogic practices?

Shri Mataji: Very much so. Very much, it is the most traditional thing, you see.  Because the yogic practices you do here is some sort of a, I don’t know what to call it, but it’s like just a wee bit of it you’ve have taken are doing that, that’s not yogic practice at all.  You see Patanjali Yoga, which was practiced thousands of years back, when people led a different type of life.  When the children went to school with the gurus, who was a realized soul.  Nobody who was not a realized soul was called a guru.  And the children had to lead a very celibate life because according to your university, you see, you’re called as your gotras.  And you could not believe it today, say my gotra is Shandilya.  Shandilya was the muni of My family.  I can’t marry a man from the same gotra even today.  Thousands of years have passed since then, Shandilya lived about forty, fifty thousand years back, but even today I can’t marry a man who belongs to the same gotra.  So, the celibacy you can imagine, that from one university you could not marry.  That’s how they lived a life and then they went, after five years of age, they went to those schools, they lived there and they came out of that in complete celibate living they were.  And then they got married and then when they had children, they sent them back, like that the system was.  But if you read Patanjali Yoga the first thing that Patanjali Yoga said that, “Īśvara Praṇidhāna ” means the establishment of God.  First you must establish the Spirit.  It’s like we have not yet started the car for example, all right, it’s very logical.  Now I’m coming to Hampstead, I don’t know the way, supposing, and I don’t know which way to go.  Now supposing I say that all right now I have to go to Hampstead, from the very beginning I’ll turn to the left and not to the right, can I do it, no?  So, when the Kundalini rises then only you will know which chakra is catching what is your problem. (39:57)

Beforehand supposing you are doing any, at random, any exercises.  Say example, the way people are doing these days yoga, so called, it has nothing to do with yoga.  You see these exercises when you do, you are not aware as to what are your problems.  You don’t know what you are suffering from and what particular asana is needed for a particular type of a chakra, which is blocked, all right.  So, what you’re doing is indiscriminate, taking medicines without understanding.  But the practice of these things is a very minimum part of the whole of Patanjali.  First is Īśvara Praṇidhāna means when you establish the Spirit.  Īśvara Praṇidhāna means the establishment of the God.  Once you have established that, then the Kundalini starts moving and then you know where to stop, where to turn, how to do.  This is real tradition, but the last fifty years, you see, all sorts of nonsensical people have come up.  They’ve changed this, changed that and is logical, is logical you see.  Supposing you are suffering from Agnya chakra all right, and you are doing the exercise of this chakra you will spoil this as well as spoil this.  There’s no logic, there’s no understanding, nothing.  You see this is just physical exercises because people want to become actors and actresses, I think.

Seeker speaks to Mother. Well I’m talking about the whole, the eight limbs of yoga the whole ashtanga.

Shri Mataji: Which one?

Seeker: The eight limbs of yoga going through the whole system of the nearma(?) and the asanas, pranayama, pratchara(?) to try to work toward samadhi.

Shri Mataji: All those things you see, no, no it does not, it does not, it does not. That’s the other way around you see, this is the problem.  You see what happens that, unless and until you get your Realization you have no entry into yourself you don’t know where you are going.  This will never work out.  On the contrary, all those who have done Hatha Yoga catch on their heart center very much, because the whole attention is on the body. Because the attention is on the body the left heart catches.  Just now I have been to one organization where I met three of them. They all had their left side absolutely frozen, so they said, “Mother what should we do?”

I said, “You must sing the praise of God.  Forget, you have become so dry like a bamboo now, fill it up with the love of God.”  Forget it all your asanas and everything, just like, you see, dried fishes.  There’s no emotions left.  It’s such an imbalance, ha and Tha both the things, they’ve not said only ha, ha is the surya nadi they said ha and Tha. What are you doing about Tha, nothing?  So, you are doing ha yoga, all right.  You have to do Hatha Yoga but, without Īśvara Praṇidhāna without Realization we also do, not that we don’t do, whatever is needed that we do.  For example, now when I went there, I told them what should be given to a person who is suffering from mental diseases.  He said, “All this for mental diseases, also all these for egoistical people, also all these for liver patients, also all these for, I mean it’s horrible.”

I said, “How can that be, on the contrary to a mental patient if you make him bend forward, he’ll suffer more, he must bend backwards.  A person who is ego oriented should bend forward.”  They changed of course, I mean they’re sensible people as well as I’m concerned, they believe in Me, they think in India of course I’m accepted as some sort of a, something like that.  But you see these are little, little things they don’t know.

Supposing a person is ego oriented, right-sided person as we call it.  Right-sided person if he tries to bend backwards, he’ll become even worse.  And a person who is a superego person, suffering from mental troubles and all that has to, not to bend forward at all, he has to bend backwards.  Because they’re two types of people, there are actually three types as you know.  The people who are, I mean, in vulgar language we can call it masochist and sadist but they are extreme cases, but I’m saying that style.  We call them tamo gunis and rajo gunis.  So, the rajo gunis the sadists, if they become more like this, God save the world, see the point?  And the emotions are drained out of such people, there no feelings left, no emotions, nothing, zero.

I met one dentist who came and he said, “Mother now I have become a sthita prajna [detached].” I said, “How?” “I have no feelings. Nothing happens to me.  You see my child is sick I’m not bothered.” What a nice man you are.  “I have no feelings.  My mother calls me I have no feelings.  I am living somewhere alone.” I said, “All right.” I said, “Is that the way the saints have lived?  They have been worried not only about their people but about everyone.”  There’s no love.  There’s no love in the modern yoga, no love.  Is only the love of God, can be only felt through Spirit!  You have to have a balance.  Is very one sided, extremely one sided.  One side is those who are singing the devotional songs and the other side are (inaudible).  Both are equally mad I tell you.  Both can be equally mad. Come to the balance, again you have to come to the balance, otherwise you cannot enjoy Sahaja Yoga.  Sahaja Yoga is an enjoyment, enjoyment of your balance, of the beauty of God’s love, and the truth of His work.  Everything has to be enjoyed. Alright, you just work it out. (46:27)

Shri Mataji: Have you done yoga very much?
Seeker: Sorry?
Shri Mataji: Have you done lot of yoga?
Seeker: Reasonable amount, I wouldn’t claim to be… I do follow a Buddhist practice which is based upon the …
Shri Mataji: Now Buddhist also! Now I’ll tell you about Buddhi, all right? What are Buddhists doing? It’s true about everyone Christians, Hindus, everybody. Just because you asked about Buddhist, I must tell you.
Where is Buddha placed within us do, they know? Where is Buddha?
Seeker: I’m sorry to say…
Shri Mataji: Buddha is placed within us at a point…
Seeker: Well, yes…
Shri Mataji: And what does He control within us? We have to know this knowledge of the roots. Unless and until you know the knowledge of the roots, how will you know about the tree? You cannot treat the tree on its leaves or branches, you have to go to the roots. And first you find out the roots within you.

Buddhism is so superficial now, that I’m Myself amazed and Buddha must be thinking, “Oh God, from where it has come?”.
He said: “Buddham Sharanam Gachami.” What is a Buddha? Is an enlightened soul. Buddham means the one who is enlightened. “Sangham Sharanam Gachami”, means to the collective being. “Sangham” means the collective being. “Dhammam sharanam gachami.” “Dhammam” is the balance within you. How many Buddhists know about it? They don’t know even where Buddha is sitting on their heads. And what I find most of the Buddhists that their center of Buddha is finished. Buddha has disappeared from there once for all.
He controls our ego, and He is settled down here on the head on the left hand side. We can prove it on Kundalini. Supposing somebody is following Buddha immediately people will know that you are a Buddhist because there’s a catch here. And then some methods are there to awaken Him. If you awaken Him your Kundalini will rise, otherwise it won’t, all right? So, you must know the knowledge of the roots. We should not just depend on Buddhism or any “ism.”

Seeker: I know, yes, I agree…
Shri Mataji: That’s what I’m saying.
Seeker: It’s just that the thing that You said at the beginning, I mean I agree with that totally.

Shri Mataji: Yes, you see we have to have the complete integrated knowledge of the roots, which nourishes, you see?
Seeker: I mean, are you advocating a particular system or practice whereby one can get closer to these roots and perhaps most of us just feel from being human and just through our feeling for our fellow beings?
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no. There is no system about this. There is no system, no practice, no courses. Actually, it is spontaneous. I’m talking of your evolution. Your evolution comes through a living force of the living God. You cannot have a course in that, can you have? How do you sprout a seed? You have to just put it in the Mother Earth it sprouts by itself, is built in. In the same way within you it is built in and it sprouts, that’s all. There’s no course. Maybe you may not get it today, you’ll get it tomorrow, some seed sprouts faster.

Seeker: That very much accords with what I see is this, the Buddhist tradition anyway, I mean, I see the Buddhist tradition as growing out of an ancient yogic insight.

Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no. You are sadly mistaken about Buddhism. The trouble is with the western people they are so fed up with Christianity that they think Buddhism is going to solve the problem. They are just like any other Christian church, take it from Me.
All these lamas should be hanged by the nearest tree, I tell you. Horrible people they are, horrible. You should see their vibrations. You know this Dalai Lama when they’re sitting next to Me, I was invited to the Prime Minister’s place, I just couldn’t bear him. And the Prime Minister Lal Bahadur Shastri himself was a realized soul and he could feel it and he said, “Is he very hot? “I said, “Yes.” Is in Hindi he said, “He is an extremely hot fellow.” He said, “All right, you get on the other side,” he made the foreign minister sit there with Me.

You won’t understand, now, just now you don’t understand. Even a little child who’s a Realized soul will understand, but you won’t because you’re not yet realized, this is the point. The difference is: you are mentally understanding. I have a granddaughter, she was hardly five years of age when My daughter and the son-in-law went to Ladakh, it’s an interesting story. And there was a lama sitting you see like this, and everybody was touching his feet. This little child, who is a Realized soul, she couldn’t bear it any more. When the father went and touched his foot she just stood back and she said, “What do you mean, by shaving your head and wearing this big stuff you think you are a realized soul? Why are you making everybody touch your feet?” Just she stood up. And My son-in-law felt quite embarrassed and he told that he’s not even a realized soul, why do you touch his feet. (51:58) You won’t understand, even a little child will understand, you won’t understand. Realized soul is a person who can feel it.

This is what Buddha has said, that’s the traditional thing. He has said, “First of all seek yourself.” Buddha didn’t talk about God. Why? Because He thought if you talk about God again another religion will start. He just said,” First of all – as I say – first of all seek yourself, get your Self-Realization. Nothing else but get your Realization.”

Seeker: Oh yes, I mean that would be my understanding of Buddhism. 

Shri Mataji: Alright, that’s it. So better have it, better have it.

You see, to have Buddhism – there’s nothing like “ism” about Buddha; you see, these people are mental – to have it means to get Realization. What tradition are they following? Carrying that ring like this, like that, mad kip [sick] people, horrible.
Is that what Buddha did? He has sought His Realization. He didn’t do all these nonsensical things. These lamas, and they even beat people and do all kinds of things, horrible cruel people. Thank God they are out of that Lhasa. You should see the Tibetans, now they’re sitting on our heads like parasites in India and we had a parliament question on them. You see, they look very attractive because you are fed up with your Christianity, that’s what. Don’t believe in all these priests, whether they are Hindus, Christians or Muslim, all are just the same. There’s no difference. You become the realized soul first of all. You have to be the Buddha, all right? That’s what I am saying as a Mother.

And then they started another one Shambhala business, you see? This is another new thing. Taking everybody to Gobi Desert to get samadhi. Walk in that Gobi Desert even one mile you will get a samadhi permanently. [Laughter] You can’t even get a glass of water there to drink, My child. What things they are preaching, you don’t know, all nonsense. In Spain, some Spanish people have started this nonsense. They are recruiting people to go to Gobi Desert. I mean, what is going to happen to them? Think of the Gobi Desert, is one of the worst deserts of the world. Can you imagine going to a desert, how will you reach God? You have to seek Him within yourself. He is within, all right?

Question from seeker: Mother please tell us about the dangers of mis-using mantras by religious sects.

Shri Mataji: Mantras? Alright, dangers of mantras. You see mantra is a thing by which you awaken the Deity within, the Deity, which is on this chakra. Have you got? [Shri Mataji shows the chart] On these charkas, we have deities. On these, we have to awaken the Deities. So, a person who is awakened himself can only tell you what mantra to be said, isn’t it? It’s a simple thing as that. The one who has no eyes, what can he tell to another blind person? So first an enlightened soul, who knows about charkas, can only tell you what chakras are catching within you. But the Kundalini should solve it. Supposing you are just now caught on your Nabhi chakra and I tell you that you say the mantra, not that you, but the Realized soul should say the mantra and awaken that. Maybe the Kundalini has gone there, so from there you have to come here. You have to see the movement of the Kundalini. Like a car is going now, very simple, the car is going so we come to a toll gate, all right? To there we have to pay the toll. But where the car is going, and then there is a toll gate you pay there to a particular toll gate, isn’t it? Like when you are going you see –

Shri Mataji speaks aside: I’ve given up tea. [Laughter] I have, just given up. Just take it. Sixty years I thought I have drunk too much of tea. But that doesn’t mean you should give up. [Laughter]

So, the, you see, the thing is the movement of the Kundalini will only tell you which chakra is catching, all right? Otherwise you will not know. Unless until you move the car, before that, how will you know where the car is going to get the toll. Can you pay it before the car starts?
So what happens, if they give you a mantra, mostly people don’t know what they’re doing. You see it is a big enterprise, giving mantras is a very big enterprise. Like they have given mantras, which I was amazed to hear, if you tell some Indians, they’ll be laughing at you. What they say: “It’s a great secret” and the mantras they gave was, one was I heard, was “tinga” means like this you show [your thumb] to someone you see this is “tinga”, in Hindi language. There is nothing like “inge” in Sanskrit Language. Another mantra I heard was “inga”. “Inga” means the tail of the, the sting of a scorpion, can you imagine that could be it? And then, where is the director of the flying squad, is he there? He’s hiding there at the back. Now what is the mantra for they gave you for flying? What tubes? Who is there? Come along, where is he?

Sahaja Yogi: “Bronchial tubes, Mother.”

Shri Mataji: Bronchial tubes. Bronchial tubes, bronchial tubes, they paid six thousand pounds for getting that mantra for you. [laughter]
Just imagine and this bronchial tube is one of them. Then they’ll give a mantra of Rama. Take a more sensible thing, they might give a mantra of Rama. But Rama where does He exist? Supposing I want to give a mantra of Buddha, for example. Where is Buddha? Are you catching on Buddha or not? Is the main point. Where are you catching? Where is Rama? Rama resides in what part? Is it necessary to give this mantra or not? They don’t know anything, no knowledge of any kind just at random. At the age of six years to twenty years give the mantra what is it? “Pinga” then another one “tinga”, another “ringa”, according to the age, not according to the Kundalini where it is. Now what is the danger of that? That’s the main point.

That supposing they give you a name of Rama, they are not awakened people they are not connected with God, they are not authorized. Now you go on saying “Rama, Rama, Rama, Rama, Rama, Rama, Rama, Rama” like that, you see. Now the other way around you say “mara, mara” means “I’m dead, I’m dead I’m dead”. [Laughter] So you go on saying a mantra: “Rama, Rama, Rama, Rama.” Now what happens that you are not connected with Rama at all, because you are not a Realized soul, neither the guru, the one who has taken three thousand pounds for giving you this Rama mantra, is a Realized soul?

So, when you are shouting like that “Rama, Rama, Rama”, who will come to your help will be somebody dead as Mr. Rama somewhere. He will come to your help and he’ll possess you. With that you may start thinking because you get an added personality and suddenly you feel you see, you get more powers so called.
Like Gauguin, if you go on saying “Gauguin, Gauguin, Gauguin” he might enter into you. You might start painting something and after that finished! You have no energy left because one horse is riding two men.

But the worst thing that happens to you by saying mantra [if not Realized], is that you develop a terrible dent in this very important center called Vishuddhi, specially the left Vishuddhi.
And then they are frightened. If you ask them: “What is your mantra?”
“Mother I won’t tell you.”
“No that is not to be told.”
All secrets in God’s vision, in God’s realm, there should be no secret at all, everything should be known, everybody should know what is what. Why should there be any secrets? I can’t understand. For example, everybody will know those who are Realized souls, where you are catching, what is your chakra, they’ll tell you. Everybody will say the same.

Like one day, one gentleman came he said, “Why are they all coming and asking me ‘How is your father?’” I said, “Because your Rama’s chakra is catching.” That’s exactly the mantra you will take. So, your chakra is caught, that is the one that the name they give you because you’re insulting the deity and this Vishuddhi chakra, by which you say also is caught up, and from there it goes as guilt to the left.  If you should try to correct a person it acts as a guilt and he gets a problem on the left hand side Vishuddhi which is a very, very big problem.

Seeker: Japanese religious sect gives Buddhist mantra called Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. Please tell us?

Shri Mataji: Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, I know.  You see Nam-myoho-renge-kyo is a great thing, but not by these Japanese people.  Japanese less said the better.  I met the person called, his name I have forgotten. He was the head of the Zen system.  Now see Zen is Sahaja Yoga.  To be realized is to be Zen.  But this fellow had a frozen Kundalini just like that there just sitting settled down.  So I told him, “Sir with very humble understanding I would like to say, that are you really a Zen?”
He said, “I’m teaching Zen, but I’m not.”
I said, “Why?”
He said, “Altogether from the sixth century till today, only up to the eighth century we had Pashupas? means realized souls.”
Only till the eighth century and after that what followed was this kind of people who had the Kundalini just settled down there.  But at least he was honest.  And he was suffering from a horrible disease for which he came to Me.  So, I said, “At least you do not propagate now Zen, because you are not a Zen.”

You are a Christian, are you?  Ask anyone who is he. This artificial baptism is not Christianity.  Is the real baptism, raising of the Kundalini?  Is the Kundalini piercing through?  Are you a Muslim?  You are not because you are not a pir, you are to be a realized soul first.  So, imagine all these people who are teaching all these things are not authorized at all.  But they’ll come around, I’m sure.

Seeker asks a question: I was interested in Your comment when You said Nam-myoho-renge-kyo is fine but not any Japanese…

Shri Mataji: You see now I’ll tell you. It is very simple to understand, you understand one point which you are missing all the time.  Is this that supposing there is a constable standing there and he says, “Go this way,” all right, we have to obey him otherwise you’ll end in jail he’s authorized, isn’t it?  But supposing I go and stand there and say, “Go this way,” they’ll put Me in jail.  They have no authority from God to do it because they are not realized souls.  The same mantra becomes a great mantra when it comes from an authorized person from God.  But the same mantra becomes a sinful thing when it comes from a person who is not authorized, who’s just commercialized it.  

[Seeker interrupts] Well yes it came from one

Shri Mataji: Is it gone into your head what I told you, that you are to be authorized by God?  That is, you should be self-realized.  If you are not self-realized you have no right to give any mantras or anything, do you follow this point, simple point.

Seeker: Sure.

Shri Mataji: Now that’s all. So, you get your Realization, that’s important, which you should.  But I don’t know how it works out, you see that is not My guarantee.  If it works out well and good, may not work out today.  So better put attention to that, it’s important.

May God Bless you.

Shri Mataji: Is there any other question now?
Put attention to that, that is important. But one thing more, when you follow them you never ask questions. I had one lady from a lama, she came down from Norway, she was horrid, absolutely horrid. Her vibrations were, what was her name, Gavin?
Gavin: Pia.
Shri Mataji: Mia.
Gavin: Pia.
Sahaja Yogi: Pia.
Shri Mataji: Pia. Pia. She came to My house, I said, “Baba! How to raise her Kundalini, baba, dreadful.” And she was thinking no end of herself and arguing, arguing with Me throughout, and all that.
I said, “How did you happen,” I mean, she has been to this lama. I said, “What happened?” She said, “No, he wrote to us that I can’t live in an ordinary house, you have to make a marble floor. So first we all starved ourselves, within one year we collected money, made a marble floor for the fellow. So, he came and was sitting on the seventh step, and we were first one year we had to just go and bow to him just like this.”
One thousand and one time, can you imagine, every day. And “I’ve done that course.” But I said, “Didn’t you argue with him?”
She said, “No.”
Then I said, “Why are you arguing with Me?” Of course, I like that you argue because that shows you are free to argue, I’ve not mesmerized you.
But, you must see the sense.

How do we accept Buddha, let’s see? Have you seen Buddha?
Have you met him? Have you met anybody who is a Buddhist who says he can give Realization?
But then why are we the pleaders of Buddha whom we have never seen, who has gone away, we don’t know anything about Him. Why? Because I am living, He is not. When He was living there were people who were asking about other people to him. So better be in the present and get it, your Realization. All right? That’s what it is.

That’s what happened with Buddha he couldn’t give Realization to anyone whatsoever.   Sariputa, Mogallana, all were wasted people. Same with Christ.  Because when Krishna came, they said, “What about Rama?”  When Rama came, they said, “What about Dattatreya?”  But where is Dattatreya now?  Rama is standing here why not get it from Him.  So, everybody failed.  They said, “They are talking about the past only.” What about the present?  You are sitting before Me, I am sitting before you, have your Realization.  Why argue about it?  If there’s a diamond and if I say you can have it free will you argue? You understand diamond better than our Spirit.  Always we did that but this time better not miss it.  I’m telling you better have your Realization, it’s important.  Of course, Buddha plays a very big role within us but first get your Spirit otherwise it has no authority.  The knowledge of Buddha has no authority within you unless and until you become the Buddha yourself.  All right, now let’s have it.  At the end of it I would request you to have your Realization.

Put your hands like this towards Me just like this.  Better now, relaxed, all right, nice. Put your hands like this. It works, it works that’s the point is, it should work, isn’t it?  Now close your eyes, please.  Just close your eyes, you have to keep your eyes shut that’s important because when the Kundalini rises above the Agnya chakra if your eyes are not closed it will fall down, so please close your eyes.  There’s no mesmerism that’s why you have to close your eyes.  Just keep your eyes shut.

[Shri Mataji speaks aside: Take the baby out, please.]

Just sit comfortably don’t move, don’t make any gestures nothing, nothing outward.  You have to be inside; it will work out inside.  Nothing should work out outside.  Just keep quiet.  Just put your hand towards Me.  Whatever has to work out will work out inside, not outside.  Don’t open your eyes but don’t fix your attention anywhere, keep it loose, just keep it loose, don’t fix it at a point, please.  Don’t try to fix it at – some people are fixing it at the point what we call the Agnya chakra or anything.  At the most you can put your attention on top of your head.  But don’t try to fix it anywhere keep it loose, absolutely loose.  Now with your right hand, which is the hand of your creativity or the action power, you have to use the right hand to express your action and the left hand is a desire.  So, you have to put the left hand towards Me for the desire but don’t open your eyes, just on the lap you can keep it comfortably as it is and you have to just move your right hand but keep the fingers straight.  Straight fingers toward Me and move the right hand as I tell you.

No, on the lap left hand on the lap and the right hand I’ll tell you how to move it. Now put the right hand, no left hand toward Me. Sahaja Yogis should see left hand towards Me now move the right hand.  Left hand on your lap comfortably, please put left hand on your lap.  Left hand on your lap, yes very comfortably.

Now the right hand you have to put it on your heart.  Heart where resides your Spirit.  Now in your heart you have to ask a question to Me, “Mother am I the Spirit?” Just put it on the right hand side.  Those who are very much on the left but actually it is on the left hand side is the heart.  You see those who are putting it too much toward the left should put it at the proper place of your heart is on the left hand side.  Now press it with your fingers. And just ask a question, “Mother am I the spirit?”  Say it thrice, ask a question with full confidence.

Now please put this right hand, don’t open your eyes, on your stomach on the left hand side again.  Lower part of the stomach and push it and ask the question again to Me, “Mother am I my own Master, am I my own Guru?”  Because you are, and this Spirit is your Guru.  But when you are asking Me a question, “Mother am I the Spirit?” you have to ask the second question, “Mother am I my own Guru, am I my own Spirit?”  Because the Spirit is the Guru, which is awakened within you, when you get your Realization.  So, you have to say, “Mother am I my own Guru?” Say it ten times. Ask the question ten times. The times are according to the chakras.

Keep the left hand the same way and now put again the right hand on the heart.  And now you assert with confidence that, “Mother I am the Spirit,” which you are.  This you have to do twelve times, twelve times.  Ten plus two, twelve times you have to say, “Mother I am the Spirit.”  With confidence, with full confidence you should say, “Mother I am the Spirit,” full confidence.

Now take this right hand across to the left side of your neck, left side of your neck.  Again, was I said left Vishuddhi.  Because the Spirit is immaculate, absolute, it never does any mistakes so there is no question of feeling guilty.  So, you have to say sixteen times now that, “Mother I am not guilty.”  Say it sixteen times, again with full confidence, because we’re talking about God Almighty who is the ocean of love, ocean of forgiveness, ocean of compassion, sixteen times.

Now again raise the left hand without opening your eyes, to your forehead.  Across your forehead, across your forehead, and hold your forehead in your hand, right hand, left hand being towards Me.  At this point is the Agnya chakra where you have to say that, “Mother I forgive everyone.”  Now some of you might say that I cannot forgive is a very common thing people tell Me.  But when you don’t forgive what you are doing is to play into the hands of people who try to harm you.  So, you just say, “Mother I forgive everyone.”  With full understanding, without any reservation, “I forgive everyone.”  Unless and until you forgive everyone how, can God forgive you?  So, let God forgive you for your mistakes what you have done in your ignorance but don’t feel guilty about it.  Only you just say, “Mother I forgive everyone.”

Now put this hand on top of your head, right hand again where the soft bone was there when you were a child.  Press it with your palm that portion and move it in a clockwise manner.  Press that palm and move it in a clockwise manner.  Now at this point I cannot cross your freedom.  It’s your freedom, which I respect, you have to say that you want realization.  So, here you have to say, “Mother we want our realization. Please give us the Realization,” otherwise I cannot cross. So please say this seven times.

Now you can raise your hand and see if there is a cool breeze coming. Some people might be getting the heat coming out of their heads.  Raise it higher to see if there is a cool breeze coming out.  So many of you are still feeling guilty, is a wrong thing.  I’ve told you not to feel guilty.  Just see if there is a cool breeze coming out.  Now you can take another hand, left hand and see with your left hand.  You can change over and see if there is a cool breeze coming out.  Not very much higher say about four inches higher. You can change over another hand.

You just see if this gentleman has got it, Ruth see his.  You got it, you feeling in the hand also, not in the hand. He’s got in the hand, you got it, it’s very subtle.

It’s a subtle thing. You are coming from a gross level to a subtler place.

All right, you have to do that left to the right.

Put your hands toward Me still, see the Sahaja Yogis will help you now. Once you become Sahaja Yogis you have to help others, all right. They know about your chakras.

Is he all right? All right try to help Matha?  See this gentleman, no. Left to the right, put him left to the right.  Is he all right, all right?  Not yet in the hand.

You just watch Me without thinking. Can you do it?

Got it, got it she said she’s a Sahaja Yogini. What about him? Got it, see there.

(Shri Mataji speaks to someone in Marathi)

See the new people please. No, no don’t stop yet put his hands towards me. Put it left to the right. (Shri Mataji speaks to someone in Marathi) Vishuddhi , Nabhi (Shri Mataji speaks to someone in Marathi).

*(about William Blake)