Knowledge of the Roots, Talk to Students

University of Sussex, Falmer (England)

1983-05-25 Knowledge of the Roots, Talk to Students, Falmer, England, DP, 108' Chapters: Arrival, Talk, Q&A, Self-RealizationDownload subtitles: EN (1)View subtitles:
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Public Program, University of Sussex, Falmer near Brighton, United Kingdom, 1983-0525

Public Program, University of Sussex, Falmer near Brighton, United Kingdom, 1983-0525

I was really very happy to learn that Sussex University Sahaja Yoga centre has been very kind to invite me to speak to them. It’s such a pleasure to talk to the students because they are the ones who have always been, in any country, been responsible for any new step, whether it was political, economic or social, which was to be taken boldly. Students are the people who have their idealism intact still and when they are studying, they don’t get biased easily. They keep their minds open to every knowledge because they are new to it, but those who become experts can become very biased, very conditioned by what they read or they think to be right. But the students can also be very much vulnerable, because they do not know whether whatever new comes to them is the truth or some sort of falsehood. So, at this life, when you are a student, you have to be very careful to understand that if you have to seek the truth, you have to be alert about it.

First and foremost thing, as students we enter into university. It’s a beautiful name ‘University’ meaning that you get all the knowledge of the universe and when you enter into university, you come with an open mind and with an understanding that whatever you have to learn in the way of a student, you are not the teacher and that humility always helps the students to learn about anything they want to know about any part of their knowledge. Now what you learn in the university is the knowledge of the tree. Knowledge that you can perceive and understand through your mental activity, but what I’m going to tell you about today is the knowledge of the roots.

Roots of the tree, from where the whole knowledge comes.

Now to believe in me or to understand me, it is not necessary for you to have any sort of faith in me or a sort of surrendering position, but you must also know that if I have to tell you something new, you must keep your mind open to understand what I have to tell you.

When we study, say economics, take a subject which is very common these days and it is even regarded as a higher science than philosophy. What do we learn? The essence of economics is very simple, that ‘wants’ in particular are satiable but in general, ‘wants’ are not satiable. This is the essence of Sahaja Yoga also, like whatever you want to have, you can have today and tomorrow you will run after another thing. That’s why we have economics because this is the tendency of the human mind, but why it is so? Why is it we really strive, supposing you are doing your graduation, you will strive your heart to be a graduate but you won’t be satisfied. You would like to do higher studies or like to take up a job and even if you get a job, you will not be satisfied. Then you want to build a house, then you want to have a car, then you students want to have a nice bike, alright. When they have it, they want something else, a helicopter maybe I don’t know what but it goes on increasing, you are never happy with what you have. Fully satisfied.

Now the reason for that, you can find it in Sahaja Yoga, because the roots are deeper down which you do not know. It’s alright to build up the whole science of economics on something but what about the roots that have created this big tree of economics?

The roots are that none of these material things are going to give us full satisfaction, this is the root. So, what is going to give us that satisfaction, we come to the second logical question. What is the need of a human being to feel satisfied? There is something higher, something deeper, something that we have missed. This is definite, now what is that? We can refer if you are not upset or angry or we can say biased about the scriptures, any scriptures, I’m not saying Bible or say Torah or Indian scriptures or Buddha sayings or Tao or anything. You will find one common thing they have said, all of them have said one thing common and that is ‘that you are to be born again’.

You have to know your Spirit, you have to become the Spirit because that lacking in us, in our awareness, because we are not yet the Spirit, whatever we know without it is only the mental projection, which is limited as our mind is limited. So to know the unlimited or to know the roots, you have to become the Spirit. This is the first condition they have given. Now if you just don’t deny them, we should look into it, we just have to become the Spirit. Now what is that, what is that? We can ask, which is the Spirit. If there is something like Spirit within us, we have not yet felt it, we have never felt the Spirit within us and what is that Spirit and what does it do? What are its qualities? We should try to find out. That’s what you can find out when you become the Spirit, it’s a vicious circle.

The other way around, here nobody will say that you must become a graduate to know about economics, but the other way around thing, you have to go deep down into the roots and how do you do that? Supposing I say you pay attention to yourself. A teacher will say ‘pay attention’ so all the students will start looking at him, looking at the blackboard, but I say pay attention to yourself! Then you will say ‘Mother how do you do it?’ It’s an impossible thing, how do we take our attention inside, it’s all the time outside, how are we to take it inside?

That’s why you have to get your realisation first, you have to become the Spirit by which you can take your attention inside to your roots, that’s why the first condition in the Sahaja Yoga system is that we have to become the Spirit.

Before that, whatever I say, you will say how is it true? You can always challenge, you can always say it may not be true, it may be wrong, it may be false…it’s true, because supposing I have no eyes and you start telling me about the colours, how will I know? So, anybody will say open your eyes first of all, unless and until you open your eyes you won’t be able to understand what I’m talking about. In the same way we have to understand that if we have to know about the roots, we have to penetrate within, for that we have to become subtler than what we are. We are at a level from which we cannot enter inside ourselves, so we have to become something else and that becoming is only possible if you become the Spirit.

I hope I’m clear on that point. Now, how to become the Spirit is the problem because whenever a teacher tells you do this, you say how? That’s correct, I mean logically that should be the question, how do we become the Spirit? Now if I say, this is our evolutionary process, we have evolved as human beings, come up to this stage and if something more has to happen, it has to happen the same way as evolution has taken place, automatically. What did we do to become human beings from monkeys? If we have become from monkeys. I don’t think anybody remembers anything they have done to become human beings or they have put in any effort to be that, we have done nothing, we have just become human beings spontaneously or we can say automatically, but actually spontaneity relates to a living process. Only living things are spontaneous. You want to sprout a seed, you just put it in the Mother Earth, spontaneously it sprouts, we don’t do anything to it, we don’t stand on our heads, we don’t read any book, we don’t say anything to the seed but it sprouts because it’s built in, within the seed, the quality to become the tree.

In the same way, it is built in within you to become the Spirit.

As you have become a human being, you have to become the Spirit. That’s the evolutionary natural process to which you have to take to. Now if you get satisfied just with whatever state you are in as a human being, you can live, not impossible, I mean you can while away your time, you can carry on but still you will not be a satisfied person. You will not be a blissful person. You will not be a person who can be called as a person who has become an absolute personality. Still, you will be living in the relative world because of this mental activity which is going on, which will confuse you completely all the time. You will not know whether this is good or that is good, like these days in England we have a big confusion whether to vote Labour or Conservative or this. We don’t know which one to vote so we will close our eyes, whichever I catch, I will do it. We don’t know what to do. This stage will go away because we haven’t reached that state of absoluteness where we can decide things with absolute authority. This is the thing, this is the right thing.

Once we understand this state that lies within us, then what do we do? We know what is right and what is wrong and right can only be one thing, there cannot be any difference of opinion as to what is right and what is wrong if you do it with your absolute awareness. But human awareness is not absolute, if it was so, there would have been no problem. There would not have been any necessity to have this ‘mx’ authorised or have this atom bomb produced there. Human beings are the only animals that are doing like this, you don’t find any dogs creating any atom bombs or anything to kill each other, but this is special human failure to show that we are not at an absolute point where we all agree. So how to achieve that is the second point again I said it is spontaneous, it’s a living process and you don’t have to worry about it. It’s all built in within yourself.

So, how many of you have come for the first time for Sahaja Yoga meeting? Let’s see…[Shri Mataji counted five new people and continues] the rest of you have been to Sahaja Yoga meeting so you know about Kundalini, you know awakening of the Kundalini and all those things. Now we have within ourselves, this power by which it is going to happen to us. This is the power of pure desire, of pure desire within us because so far as we have seen all our desires that we have cannot satisfy us. So there must be some desire within us which leads us to completion or to the fulfilment of our ultimate desire to be the Spirit, and this power lies in the triangular bone in the lowest part of your spinal cord. Now this lies there or not, it exists or not, whether I’m telling you is correct or not is to be found out. You should not just challenge it, you should see for yourself that sometimes in some people, there are many who have seen it here, you can see the pulsation of this power if there is an obstruction in this person and the awakened Kundalini cannot rise. You can see it with naked eyes absolutely with naked eyes, a pulsation, just like a heartbeat. In some people it is so vigorous that you are amazed that this bone behaves, this triangular bone behaves like a heart beating.

Surprisingly, this bone is called a sacrum and sacrum in Greek language means sacred. Of course for all our knowledge, sacred word is only in the dictionary, we don’t know what sacredness is, what divinity is, what auspiciousness is, thank God there are words but we don’t know what it is supposed to be. Now this they call as a sacred bone and I was amazed and I asked them, why did you call this a sacred bone, when I went to Greece. I was even more amazed to find out that they knew a lot about this knowledge. They told me that they had rapport with Indians, with great philosophers of India who came down and told them all about it and they had this practice with them. Even the knowledge of their medical science was very much based on those ideas, even in England, when you had your medical science first, you’ll be amazed the basis of it was the same as Sahaja Yoga system. They had three types of human beings and they are to be treated that way. But then suddenly I don’t know from where, we started curing, not through the roots but through the leaves. If there is something wrong with the leaf, you treat the leaf and then you find some trouble somewhere in the fruit, you see, it’s like that.

So, the medical science became like that, absolutely treating the leaves and the roots were left behind. Now these roots are within you. They are there all the time, you are not aware of them, you’re not aware of so many things within yourself, but once you become aware of them, as you get your realisation. As you get your Spirit manifesting in your attention, in your central nervous system, when you start feeling the vibrations of the Spirit flowing, then you can understand all about them. Whatever I’m saying here today, you can verify it and can find out. To give you a simple example, is that when you have to go to a class of astrology, you have to use a microscope. Now you say that I won’t use the microscope, I would like to see the skin with my naked eye, you cannot, what you will see is the skin that is there. But if you have to see the deeper structure of the skin, you have to use a microscope. In the same way, if you have to see the deeper side of life, you have to use the microscope of your Spirit. Without the Spirit, you cannot understand what is beneath and what is above.

Beneath is your beautiful being, the glorious human being that is created by God and above is the All-pervading power of love of God Almighty.

May God bless you.

I would like to have questions from you. That would be better than to talk about it because I must have given, I don’t know how many, thousand lectures so far and there’s no end to it because this is a vast knowledge. Even if you have thousand universities like that, I don’t think it can be completed, but it’s so simple. Once you become that, I don’t have to tell you much. Like this room you have done, if I have to explain about it to someone, I can write a book on this and still they won’t understand anything. They will come here and will never recognise that this is the book I’ve told them about. But if you just open your eyes and come here, you see for yourself and know definitely this is the place you have to be. That’s what it is when you become. You don’t have to know all about it, you just become that.

May God bless you.

I would like you to ask me questions, that would be much better. What do you say Jason?

Seeker: Is the energy tied physically to this bone, the triangular bone? What happens to the poor unfortunate people who might have lost the bone?

Shri Mataji: No, I don’t think anybody has lost it so far except they are devils you see. It’s not lost easily and I would say that just now we should worry about ourselves, isn’t it? So we can help others. So we can help so many. If we are not equipped, how can we help others? First we should equip ourselves then we’ll think about others. I’m happy you have thought for others, that’s a good sign of generosity but we must have something within ourselves to give, isn’t it?

Seeker: In what way the chakras and triangular bone, sacrum is associated with the physical body? If somebody is born with one arm, what happens to the chakras?

Shri Mataji: You see, even if you are, chakras are not normally hurt because they are very much placed inside the inner core of the medullae, they are very subtle things, they are not harmed easily, they cannot be harmed but it can be possible that a person who has no backbone but such a person doesn’t exist. I have seen people with crooked ones and they get it straightened and it can work out with them, but without a backbone we don’t exist.

It’s a subtle thing and it’s an energy, it’s an energy centre and it may be in your case it may be just on the borderline supposing on the lumber area, it may move out with another one. So that is not so important. What is important is just now you see, instead of going into details, first we must get our realisation and gradually you will be able to locate everybody’s centres, where they are, because they pulsate and you can see with your own eyes.

Seeker: If you see them with your own eyes, presumably you can’t photograph them?

Shri Mataji: We have photographs also, we have photograph, we have films, everything we have done, but as I told you that every person has a different style of awakening, in the sense that in some people like a little child, or say a person who is simple hearted, say from a village where he is not so complicated, I mean who doesn’t think too much you see this chakra goes out if you think too much [Shri Mataji’s hand is at Agnya]. Or sort of obstructions like that. Then, such a person, if he takes, in a split of a second the whole thing moves out, really, like a jet. But, in a person who is a little complicated or has a disease or physically handicapped or any sort of thing like that, then it takes time. It pulsates much more in those places where they have a problem. So it depends. You cannot say that supposing you say that take my photograph, it may not be there, so we have of course taken photographs, we have films of that, everything. But on some people we have seen it, not all because you don’t keep a camera there all the time to take a photograph, we have taken.

Seeker: The camera is impartial so presumably if you find one person who has this throbbing, you can do it again [Yogi: but surely Mother could you also mention to him that the Kundalini only throbs like that when there’s a problem there…is that right?]

Shri Mataji: What do you want to achieve by that? Let’s see, what’s the achievement? We should not side track, it’s a very important issue but we should not side track alright? Keep it to the main point, what do we want to do, why do we want to? You see the trouble is we would not like to do anything wasteful, naturally, why should we do anything wasteful, for nothing at all, isn’t it? What we would like to do is achieved easily for the good of everyone without much difficulty, alright, so now to take a photograph, this, that kind of a thing is not necessary. There is no need to do it, but we have taken photographs, no doubt we have taken because you see many a times, I have many photographers with me and people with a movie sort of camera are going on. Then they have taken photographs, but it’s of no use, as it is for our purpose, there’s no need to take a photograph. But we have taken and now we have got it and now as your question moves further with it that if somebody has a pulsation, it may disappear after five minutes. It may not be there, it’s just there for the time being because if the Kundalini is rising, it is moving upward you see. So, it may not be there, it may reach another point or it just come out from here [Shri Mataji takes her hand to her Sahasrara to demonstrate]. All right?

You should ask me questions which has some advantage, you see, to you and to me both because this is of no meaning, that we should take a photograph, then we should do this, there’s no need to do that, what is the need?

Seeker: There’s no need for you to do it…

Shri Mataji: But we have.

Seeker: I would have thought that if you believe through true awakening people may realise the futility of desiring material things that this was the sort of thing you would like to see established as soon as possible….

Shri Mataji: That’s a good idea. We have got it you see we have got but you don’t know, the media people want something bad to happen. They don’t want anything good to be said that this is a way we can say things. I think so, because they are not interested much, in this country, not in other countries, but in this country, I don’t think they are very much interested if I tell them that there is such a power and we have a photograph and you can see for yourself, and this happens and cancer can be cured, they are not interested. What to do? It’s not easy.

Seeker: On the contrary, if you could talk about this … [unclear from public]

Shri Mataji: Alright, so next time I give you the responsibility, you get them to me, they are terrible, you don’t know. Just, I’ll give you a simple example alright. I don’t want to talk against them, they are after all good people, but they don’t see the point you see, that is important and they just don’t want to understand. Simple thing you see, they wanted to advertise me alright, I’ll give you an example of these people, how their mind works. So, I didn’t want to say much but I just said one little sentence that England is the heart of the Universe, which I can prove. And then I talked about William Blake*, who said that such and such a thing is going to happen and all that. Where he has used the word that England has to become Jerusalem. I mean it’s an honourable thing I said for them, so they raised an objection today only, that’s why I was delayed, saying that if you say England is the heart of the universe, the Arabs will have objection!

You must understand, you see, you are a student, you must understand what sort of people surround us. I didn’t know what to say! Why will they have objection? Because they too have a place in the universe but England if it is the heart! I have to say that. But supposing I am honouring you, why should you not stand for your honour? Because if you in any case go to Falkland to save your honour there, and here if I say a simple truth – which I know – you don’t want to say that just in an advertisement because the Arabs may catch it and they may disappear from Harrods!

So that’s our media we must understand it’s not so simple as you think. But I’ll be very happy if you can get me some of them. It’s not easy, very difficult people, very difficult.

Seeker: Are you prepared to say anything about [??]?

Shri Mataji: Yes. I’m prepared to say, not only that, but I can prove it also but it is such a simple sentence. But I’m regarded as a saint in India. If a well-known saint is saying that, one should take it as an honour. But that’s not so. That’s not so with people you see. Here I don’t think they take saints seriously in England, perhaps, maybe, but Arabs are taken more seriously I must say. Surprising you know! How can Arabs make an objection to such a thing, I can’t understand. But this is exactly the problem today I was facing. So I think you are the students but you still don’t know the reality of what these people are like but one day you will realise. I’m very happy your attention is on that, I hope so it works out that way, then we can show them pictures and all that alright.

Now what else?

It had only one purpose that I could explain it better to you because I didn’t know what to say to these people, the way they came out with Jerusalem and the objection to Jerusalem. After all, if William Blake said it but now we can criticize it because the Arabs don’t like it. Is that the way to look at things? Are the Arabs going to decide for us everything?

Seeker: Would you be prepared to make any comments about life on other planets?

Shri Mataji: No, there isn’t any. It’s as simple as that. Even if there are, they are not the type of life which you are used to, the different types of things, different style of life. We cannot call them as ‘life’ because our concept of life is different so we shouldn’t call them but as human beings, the awareness of human beings, there is none. But there is something like life you can call it in some places, maybe the matter is moving like life but according to the human conception, you would not call it life.

Seeker: Is there any difference between humans and animal life on this planet?

Shri Mataji: Difference? Tremendous! I’ll tell you one example. You take your dog through a dirty lane, he can pass through, you cannot. Thousand and one, there is such a difference between animals and human beings.

Seeker: You were talking about evolution earlier?

Shri Mataji: Yes you have evolved to human state, no doubt.

Seeker: Would you say in the course of evolution that all life forms were the same and at one point we came at a different life form.

Shri Mataji: Human beings are made in such a way, they can exist as people who can think and can create, it’s as simple as that. You see, that’s why they have developed these things. Supposing an animal feels the dirt or anything, he cannot remove it but human beings can. He can create, see this is the difference and that’s why so many things that human beings have, are only as an accessory to help adjust his life to his surroundings, alright? But say you take a horse or a dog, they have a certain sensitivity to an evil spirit but human beings don’t have that much sensitivity to it. There are some birds, if they disappear from a part of Japan and all that, then people know that there is some sort of rumbling going on in the Mother Earth and some earthquake is expected so people also start departing from the birds you see. There are so many birds as you have heard that they go from one place to another, from Siberia all the way to Australia, how do they do it? We can’t do it, because they have a magnet developed within them which can feel and through which they go. So, of course there are many things which are dropped out in human beings and many things added to him, but are evolved because they can create. You can create. Like an animal cannot create, that’s the difference.

[Same person kept speaking so Shri Mataji asked him to give others a chance and also the discussion is not about evolution at large, Mother is saying that if you do not accept that you are more evolved than animals, how can I argue it out? It’s a fact. You are a human being, you’re definitely more evolved than animals. You can organise yourselves better, you can create, you can think, they cannot think. Can I talk to animals? Can I tell them what I have to tell? Not only that, their Kundalini is not there perfect yet to be awakened, this is the last point of it.

That’s not so important all right? Now let’s see, some other questions.

Same person still wants to ask one more!

Seeker: If human beings have evolved from animals, there must be something that was brought in to distinguish them from other things?

Shri Mataji: Yes, very true, there is. Raising of the head. You see the way they have raised their body, it has changed the shape of their body. That’s why you must learn Sahaja Yoga, about how the shape of the brain has changed. What has happened that our attention has gone out. Everything you must know, that’s very true, agreed on that point. That’s the thing you have to learn. That’s part of Sahaja Yoga. Absolutely, what has changed human beings? First of all, they are given freedom, if you believe in God. They have been given freedom to decide. Animals have no freedom, if it’s a dog it’s a dog. If it’s a cat it’s a cat, nature will remain the same, but human beings could be a scorpion could be a lion could be a snake could be anything so the freedom that has been given to human beings has made them higher. They got this freedom in the expression when you raised your head like this you see. Also some physical happenings take place within you, which of course I’ll tell you later on when you come to Sahaja Yoga meetings and all that, you will realise how God has given you freedom and by freedom what you developed is the ego within you and that ego has covered your head and you have developed the I-ness. That you are Mr. X and Mr. Y and Mr. Z. That I-ness has come to you, your own entity as Mr. x, y, z. You are cut off, much more from the Divine power; in the sense that now you are your own guide. The freedom is given for you to try the freedom.

Seeker: Are you saying that evolution was carrying on in it’s merry way and God decided that some peculiar time [unclear]?

Shri Mataji: It is up to you, of course it is up to you to decide. You see at this juncture you have to decide. At human level you must decide what you want to do further, the decision.

Finally! Another student asks:

Seeker: You say the attainment of Spirit is the necessary step to see into yourself, but what actual steps can anybody take for attainment of spirit and is there only one way or are there many ways?

Shri Mataji: There’s only one way of sprouting. Only one way that is built in within us, you see, that’s the only way.

Seeker: Why as an individual want to attain that Spirit to look into myself, what should I do, what practical steps can I personally take towards…

Shri Mataji: Yes, that’s very nice to say, that’s what we have to do alright. That I’ll tell you, that’s a good thing to ask. That is something nice and promising. Alright? What else?

Seeker: Mother, how far can the intellect take us? Can we understand it with the intellect?

Shri Mataji: How can you, you can’t. You see intellect can only tell you, like I came here, it was written University of Sussex, but I have to enter in. This is like a signpost, with intellect you can only know the signpost but you have to enter in, actually. Supposing I give you a chocolate alright? It’s written Cadbury’s, you read it but you have to taste it, you have to experience it, that’s the difference between the two. Just reading that mentally, knowing that mentally is something like reading a signpost. Experiencing it is like entering into it. Intellect has it’s own limitations. Like, we had to leave our car behind. It’s beyond. It’s the intellect of the intellect, you can say that. But it’s all poetry, you see what I’m saying in reality we should see what it is. So should we come to your question?

Shri Mataji asks a child what she wanted to ask.

Seeker: How does the Kundalini raise when you are rising it?

Shri Mataji: When you are raising it how does it rise? It rises just like that [Shri Mataji makes waving up motion with her hand] you have seen it, that’s it.

Now any more questions? None?

So, coming to previous question alright?

I can tell you in an analogy sort of thing because you see when you have to understand something mentally, you have to use these worldly things to explain something Divine. We can say that if there is a candle which is not enlightened, it cannot get enlightened by itself but it is ready to be enlightened. If you are ready to be enlightened, any enlightened light can enlighten you. But the enlightened light doesn’t do anything except you can say at the most it is a catalyst, at the most. But just it is ready, it’s all there, just an enlightened light comes near the one and it catches the light from that. It’s as simple as that. To give an analogy. As I told you, the seed when you put it in the Mother Earth, because it is built in, it just sprouts, it’s built in, but the process is that it has to be put in the Mother Earth. In the same way, it being a spontaneous thing and absolutely a living process, it works in a way that, supposing you have somebody who is an enlightened light. Say Ray has got enlightenment, for example, so if he wants, he can enlighten you. Once you get enlightenment, you can enlighten another person. But Ray now knows what should be done to prepare first of all the candle, to get rid of the obstructions, how to enlighten and how to bring it to a full bright light. He knows all that.

So, there are three stages we can say. First is, you are to be awakened, the Kundalini, it has to be brought out of your head here [Shri Mataji’s hand above her head] so that the cool breeze of the holy ghost you can feel it on your head. This is the second stage where you start feeling a cool breeze also in the hand. So many people don’t feel in the beginning in the hand also on the head they do not feel, because it’s a very subtle thing, but if a Sahaja Yogi feels it that means it has started but in a very subtle way. Then you must allow it to grow more and more and to dispense all the obstructions on its way. Gradually, it becomes a steady light and then a Sahaj Yogi any Sahaj Yogi can put it in such a way that you start feeling it in your hands also. Starts flowing in your hands because from the hands of a Sahaja Yogi, that power is flowing. With that power, he can handle the situation in such a way that your hands start feeling it, flowing from your hand, flowing from here [Shri Mataji’s hand above her head].

Now, when it happens, suddenly, sometimes it happens to people in a very sudden way, in a sudden rush also because they have been seekers for ages perhaps. But then they feel, oh I feel very high, absolutely on top of the world, I’ve become a witness now, naturally, because it is such a change you see. But, that’s not the end of it because you must know how to kindle it properly, to keep it going and all that. If you don’t do that, it will again come down. You must learn how to keep it going, how to work it out. That’s the part that’s the transition part through which you have to go. Some people take at the most eight days, some people take a month or so. But once you have done it, you become your own master.

To give another analogy, a very simple one. It’s like this, when you are driving a car, there’s a break and an accelerator. This is the freedom that has been given to you first of all, to learn how to use the break and the accelerator. To take the car in a proper way, to keep it in the centre, the way it has to move. Then once you have learnt it, what happens is that you automatically become a driver. Nobody has to tell you now put the break, now do this. You know it, automatically you develop it. This is the second stage of driving.

Now the third stage is that you really become an expert in that and you drive without even knowledge that you are driving, when you are perfect. But still there is one more stage left. That there is a master sitting behind, who wants you to drive this way and that way and the master says now stop the car. He’s there. Now what happens that when you really become a Sahaja Yogi, is the point, when you become the master. You start seeing the driver within you, and the accelerator and the break, and you control as a master. That’s the point you have to reach. So these are the four stages through which you have to pass, which gradually works out just like your graduation, without much difficulty, for which you cannot pay. But you must have respect for yourself, you must know you can do it and you must have that understanding that you are a human being. The epitome of evolution, and that you have to become the Spirit. It works out. It works out very fast, these days and should work out in this University also, alright. Analogy should not be taken too far because this is Divine working and Divine working is such that we can’t understand how it works. In the beginning, if I tell you, you’ll be amazed how it works you see. You will say now Mother explain, but I won’t be able to explain so many things. It’s tremendous. The Divine power has all your communications and everything. It’s tremendous and in a split of a second it works. It is to be seen for yourself. Now the time has come to prove the existence of God, to prove the existence of his Divine power. For the first time you start feeling the subtle power when you get your realisation. You start feeling it in your hands as cool breeze of the Holy Ghost. First time, otherwise you never feel it, alright.

Should we have it now?

[Shri Mataji requests all new people to come in the front row.]

You shouldn’t mind if Sahaja Yogis just put their hands above your heads. Yogis will not touch you, but just to feel you.

Now what you have to do is just put your hands like this [open facing up], why? because these fingertips have got the representation of your centres here. These 5,6 and 7…they haven’t brought the charts but you can see later on, they will give you books to see. These are 5 centres, 6 centres and 7 centres we have, so just put your hands like this and put your feet on Mother Earth, because Mother Earth also helps us, wide apart without shoes. Everything helps us, like all the elements that are there can help us and we have to use. So now put your feet on Mother Earth like this and put your hands like this and you have to close your eyes that’s all. Just close your eyes. Now don’t try to control your attention at all. Keep your attention absolutely loose, you just don’t worry as to where to keep the attention, what to think, what to do, nothing of the kind. Just leave it. Keep your hands on your lap and sit very comfortably and it will work out. I’m sure it will work out for all of you.

[Shri Mataji places her Hamsa on the speaker for a couple of minutes.]

You should not open your eyes until I tell you.

Keep your eyes shut. Take off your glasses, if possible, it will be a good idea. It helps the eyes also.

Stretch your fingers a little bit towards me like that, just stretch them, that’s all.

Shri Mataji rubs her hands and asks yogis to see their chakras. [New people’s chakras]

Shri Mataji rubs her hands and blows into them.

Right Swadishthana is too much, I think you all put them left to right, Right Swadishthana is too much. All of them have Right Swadishthana, Right Vishuddhi and Right Nabhi. Put them left to the right, that’s the best way, left to the right.

Those who have got it, you can ask them to put their hands and feel it, if possible.

Please don’t feel guilty, any one of you feel guilty that I’ve done this wrong that wrong, that’s not going to help us at all.

[Yogis working on all seekers]

Forgive, forgive everyone, just forgive. What about this gentleman? Nabhi-.let him put his left hand on his liver, right hand towards me. Left to the right.

Just don’t think, just enjoy. Those who have got it, just enjoy and don’t think, don’t think.

Now what about him? Heart, put your hand on your heart [Shri Mataji moves her hand raising general Kundalini and then around the heart]

Ask him if he has done TM or something? Buddhist.

Right Vishuddhi is too much. Right Vishuddhi, right liver put your hand on his right Vishuddhi and tell him to turn his head left. The whole muscle is better now.

[Another seeker had Ekadasha due to going to another cult so Shri Mataji asked the yogi to put his hand around the seekers Ekadasha and put him right to left. Shri Mataji generally checked on the seekers and directed the yogis accordingly.]

Shri Mataji told a seeker who had been involved with hypnotism to keep her eyes open and look at me, try to hypnotize me now. Alright now let’s see, watch me. It’s very dangerous my child, to do all these things, very dangerous. Ah! Now see it’s up there, alright. But you have to do something more alright, to get released. These are horrible things, you don’t know how you hypnotize.

Seeker: Isn’t Kundalini something I have to raise myself?

Shri Mataji: Yes she can do also, but first of all you have to become. You have not become that, how can you do? What will you do? Unless and until you become and you understand what it is alright.

Seeker: Further questions [unclear].

Shri Mataji: First, you have to become through the help of somebody else, as I told you about the two lights alright. One is an enlightened one, the other is enlightening you. Once you become, then you can enlighten others alright. So first you have to become that, fully. So they are just helping you. You see helping your light to be there steadily, is it improving now in your hand?

Seeker: No

Shri Mataji: Nothing flowing?

Seeker: No

Shri Mataji: What’s the matter [Mother asks a Yogi] warm? It will work out. It has to work out first of all, you have to become that you see.

Seeker: What do I have to feel? I don’t know.

Shri Mataji: You will feel the cool breeze in the hand and cool breeze out of your head. So many of them felt.

Did you have any Guru or someone? No one?

Seeker: Not in this sense but we do have a family Guru.

Shri Mataji: Who is he?

Seeker: We are supposed to be followers of Mahaprabhuji.

Shri Mataji: Who is he, from Bengal?

Seeker: No from Mathura.

Shri Mataji: Mathura? What is the name?

Seeker: Our family Guru but Valabh Acharya.

Shri Mataji: Valabh Acharya! Tremendous! Are you Valabh Acharyas?

Seeker: He is supposed to be our family guru

Shri Mataji: Valabh Acharya was a great Realised soul, you see, you should get it in no time, in the name of Valabh Acharya. Put your hands like this [open and palms up] Was he the Ashtachaap?

Seeker: Yes

Shri Mataji: Oh tremendous! Hah! Got it? Are you feeling now?

Seeker: No

Shri Mataji: You should. Valabh Acharyas are great, they are very great people. If they follow it properly.

Seeker: But I can’t feel it.

Shri Mataji: She has got cold that’s why her Vishuddhi is catching. That is Valabh Acharya’s chakra himself. Yes, his chakra is catching, he was great. They are called Vaishnavas. I’m doing all his work only. This is all Vaishnav Panth. What he said, I’m doing it. It’s not only worshipping him but you have to become what he said. To be Vaishnav Janas.

Seeker: Then you can be Vaishnav Janas by being nice to people.

Shri Mataji: No, no, you have to become a Realised soul. You must have ‘atma sakshatkar’. Do you read him? Do you read him or not?

Seeker: Not so much.

Shri Mataji: Then you read him, then you’ll understand what I’m saying nothing but what he says. You have to get atma sakshatkar.

Seeker: But I feel this is not the way to get it, atma sakshatkar I must get within myself.

Shri Mataji: Then why do you need Valabh Acharya?

Seeker: I don’t know but I don’t think I need some sort of community thing to start feeling in myself.

Shri Mataji: Whatever you think is from your own knowledge, no? You don’t know anything about it? Then better not think about it because you don’t know.

Seeker: I’ve been taught a lot about Valabh Acharya by family etc…

Shri Mataji: Did they get atma sakshatkar? Your family and people?

Seeker: I don’t know.

Shri Mataji: Then how do you say that? They are not authority. Those who have got atma sakshatkar are only the authority.

Seeker: Yes, but how do I know who has got atma sakshatkar?

Shri Mataji: At least, you try to find out, we are trying to help you. We are not going to gain anything out of you, are we? Then why not try?

Seeker: It must be more personal. It can’t be done in a public way like this

Shri Mataji: If you believe in Valabh Acharya, then you are telling just against him because he never believed in this kind of a thing. It was all public, because he was a great believer of Shri Krishna and not only Shri Krishna did Sahaja Yoga with gopis and raas and everything, all publicly, he didn’t do it sitting down in the rooms, alright? So this is the wrong idea you have got.

They have all got it I think except for these two. She has touched but no use. You see she is neither a full Valabh Acharya or not half way, so if you are educated enough…

[Shri Mataji is interrupted by same girl in public].

Seeker: I’m just an ordinary simple person who came here to find out.

Shri Mataji: Yes, but what I’m saying is to find out, you must accept certain things isn’t it?

Seeker: Why should I accept anything?

Shri Mataji: No, I’m saying you have come to find out, all right.

If you go to a school or to university, you have to find out. Not by giving your own ideas, ‘I think’ is not there. What ‘I think’ you listen to it, isn’t it? I think whatever you think is different, that’s the point.

Seeker: That doesn’t prove that you’re better than me or I’m worse….

Shri Mataji: I may not be better than you or maybe worse or whatever it is, but you have come to listen to me, na?

Seeker: If I would just listen to you and think about it and thought your concept. But this kind of physical exercise is not working.

Shri Mataji: Is it?

Seeker: It doesn’t bring out anything in me.

Shri Mataji: What I’m saying, it isn’t in you only, others have got it. You are the only one who hasn’t got it. It’s all right, if you haven’t got it, then you haven’t got it. We can’t help it also, we can’t help you.

We are sorry, that’s all we can say, but they have got it and all of them have got it. You haven’t got it and he hasn’t got it either. It’s the Vishuddhi. Both of them haven’t got it that’s all. Only two persons haven’t got, what can we do about it. What about her? Is she alright?

You see if it doesn’t work out what can we do? We can’t help you.

Seeker: [Unclear comments…]

Shri Mataji: It’s all right. That’s all, we can’t work on you. This is not possible.

Seeker: I don’t want anybody to work on me, I want to go myself.

Shri Mataji: All right. So, you go ahead work it on yourself, all right.

May God bless you.

Easy to be worked out. I saw an Indian, I knew what was going to happen. They are very uprooted, they neither know the Indian things or the English things. You see nothing in between. That’s the problem. Immigrants. They neither know the Indian things, I mean she’s a Valabh Acharya. Anybody, we have so many disciples from Valabh Acharya, so many have come and she doesn’t know what it is. Can you believe it? She doesn’t know what Kundalini is when Valabh Acharya has talked of nothing else but this. How can you believe she’s from Valabh Acharya? Just keeping a photograph of somebody is not that, you must know what he’s talking about. That’s what it is, they are a very uprooted people in England. Very uprooted, they don’t know Indian music, they don’t know anything. Just they wear Indian dresses that’s all.

[Shri Mataji refers to another seeker]: He’ll be all right, just he has centre heart, he’ll be alright. Do you get asthma sometimes? Just come here, sit before me, I must cure your asthma. Father issues. [Shri Mataji tells him to forgive his father….and works on him].

[Shri Mataji and the Sahaja Yogis continue to work with all the seekers in various ways.

Shri Mataji tells everybody to bring some sugar and water].

I’ll vibrate it for you, it will give you a better liver and the whole system will improve with that water.

Now all of you are invited. Come and see, where is our ashram? Just tell them the address. Give them the address, talk to them. Let them come first then we will see. You are all seekers. You realise that? Seekers of ages, that’s what you have to find. That’s your right.

May God bless you all.

*(about William Blake)