Conversation with Sahaja Yogis, “You need to have big ideas”, ashram in Brighton, UK, 1980 (lunch time)

Shri Mataji: But they don’t know cooking they said.
Sahaja Yogi: They know a little bit. Ricardo knows a little bit of it.
Shri Mataji: Does he know you are his side?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, yes, he knows.
Shri Mataji: Then that really is very, very, they are very much playing there.
[About the baby] Now, she’s singing. We should not show that we are paying attention to her, otherwise becomes self-conscious.
You didn’t think that that can please children, very little things there.

Then I saw Portugal is like that, I felt maybe the over-industrialized countries may become like that only.
Sahaja Yogi: All alike.
Shri Mataji: You see, this unemployment, and these are not very good signs for any country. That’s how it starts. It started the same way in Portugal. People got unemployed, and they’ve got out of their country. Now out of the, I don’t know, six million people in Portugal there’s only one million people they only think about, left. All the rest are out. And the proportion is much more, I think.
Sahaja Yogi: In Brasilia, in Sao Paolo or Brasilia, that is a city from Brazil, there are more Portuguese than in our whole country.
Shri Mataji: That’s it.
Sahaja Yogi: More than in Portugal and in France too. They don’t want Portuguese anymore. No one, nobody wants Portuguese. That reputation we have, very bad. In France they hate, they hate us, and in Brazil, they make jokes about Portuguese people. They don’t like us. Portuguese people don’t take bath, they say.
Shri Mataji: Don’t take?
Sahaja Yogi: Don’t take bath when they work in France and things like that. They say about us.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Sahaja Yogi: They say about us that we don’t wash ourselves. Workers are not used to take baths and things like that. They don’t like it.
Shri Mataji: French people say so?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, and it’s real.
Shri Mataji: Do they take baths, French?
[Laughter]
Sahaja Yogi: I don’t know.
Shri Mataji: Oh.
Another Sahaja Yogi: It’s racialism Mother, just racialism.
Shri Mataji: Portuguese are much more clean than French are. What are they talking?
Sahaja Yogi: I don’t know.
Shri Mataji: Horrible dirty people. No morals, nothing, all bathrooms. That’s why they have this perfumery.
No need to say that about Portuguese, sometimes I can’t believe it. All racialism, that’s what it is.

That way, Americans are the only people who are American- really we should say, take baths in India. That’s true. They are very clean and, but otherwise everywhere, the whole of Europe is just the same. Worst is France, worst.
Sahaja Yogi: The worst.

Sahaja Yogini: A lady on the phone, Mother. She wanted the Harlem Globetrotters.
[Laugher]
Another Sahaja Yogi: She wanted to find out about the Harlem Globetrotters Mother. They are an American basketball team. And she thought this was the Brighton center. Only it’s Sahaja Yoga center.
Shri Mataji: Really? For the Globetrotters?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: You must put a- can you put a sign board here?
Sahaja Yogi: Of course.
Shri Mataji: You better put. You should really pay for it.
Sahaja Yogi: We were not sure Mother because it’s a rented accommodation, and they may get funny about it. But we are going to tell them.
Shri Mataji: You ask them.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: You ask the lady.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: If she agrees.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother

[Hindi conversation]
Shri Mataji [to the baby]: Ha, where is the table lamp? Where is the table lamp?

These are made in England you know. Not Italy.
Shri Mataji [to the baby]: Ha, that’s it, very heavy.

They also illtreat Italians very much, in a way, don’t you think so, Pedro?
Pedro: Yes.
Shri Mataji: These people. And C.P. was telling Me that some were there in Norway and Sweden and they were given lower wages than the local people and, for Italians.
Pedro: Yes.
Shri Mataji: And you can’t do under international laws. You have to give the same wages, you see. And there were some-
Shri Mataji [to someone passing]: May God bless you.
Some underhand things, they used.
Shri Mataji [to someone passing]: May God bless you.
So that is all racialism.
Pedro: But in France they don’t like Italians. In France they don’t like Italians. They treat them very, you know.
Shri Mataji: Even, even France?
Pedro: Yes! France don’t like Italians.
Shri Mataji: What do the French think of themselves?
Pedro: Oh, that they are the best.
[Laughter]
At this time, one French man must arrive here.
Pedro: Well, their Laurent is the best.
[Laughter]

Shri Mataji: It’s very wrong. Now when I heard I was surprised at. Even internationally it is accepted that you have to treat everyone the same way. But that’s one point I must say about Americans, really, they don’t have so much of racialism. They have only for blacks and whites but otherwise they don’t have. Even blacks and whites it is not so much as we see it in England. Not so sharp. They have crossed that, quite a lot. They are very cosmopolitan. That’s something creditable to them. In America, you’ll find all races assemble, all kind. Indians are treated very well. Not the way they are treated in England, Indians. Italians, also. So many Italians have shops.
Shri Mataji [to the baby]: Yes. Now you make some tea for Me? Make some tea for Me. I hope it’s not too heavy for children. Op! Did it hurt you? Let’s see. Very sturdy and good.

But Italians are such craftsmen and such artists. What do they think of themselves? French.
Pedro: I don’t know Mother. Maybe they are jealous, because Italians when they work, they are very clever, with the hands and-
Shri Mataji: With the hands, with art. And with paintings.
Pedro: Yes, designing, for designing they are very good. The quality also of all these things, are very good quality.
Shri Mataji: And even today it is good.
Pedro: Yes, yes.
Shri Mataji: I don’t know why, why French have this kind of a-
Sahaja Yogi: Because they import Mother. The Italians can furnish better achievements for the French just don’t like it.
Shri Mataji: That’s it. Jealousy.
Sahaja Yogi: Yeah. All, all salesmen in France, they sell more Italian products than French products.
Shri Mataji: No doubt.
Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible] It is, because it is cheaper there. And the French, you know, don’t like that because it doesn’t go to their business.
[Laughter]
Shri Mataji: Yes.

Shri Mataji [to the baby]: Where is the cover? There’s a little cover there, she’s trying to put. How they [children] are changing little things, you see. I wish human beings were like that, so simple.

You see, our Prime Minister’s daughter in law is an Italian girl. You know that?
Sahaja Yogi: No, I didn’t know.
Shri Mataji: And her husband, you see now, is – Indira Gandhi always thinks that she should make her children the Prime Ministers, you see, she thinks it’s her father’s property. So, now she’s trying to put him up as a Prime Minister. His wife is an Italian lady. Sonia, her name is Sonia.
Sahaja Yogi: Sonia.
Shri Mataji: It’s an Indian name, Sonia. I don’t know what it means in Italy?
Sahaja Yogi: No, it’s a name. They also- Sonia, I don’t know what it means but they are people’s name is Sonia. But in Italy, they are giving rather international names like that, no?
Sahaja Yogi: In France too. We have Sonia in France.
Shri Mataji: It’s Indian name. Sonia is Indian name, actually. See, like our Sonu, now, her name is Sonali and we call her as Sonu and out of love we’ll call her Sonia. Out of love, you see, like that.
Just like that. But that is now taken there like that, Sonia. I was surprised, it’s an Indian name. Sahaja Yogi: Or, our Cinzia. In Italy there’s a name they give a lot, Cinzia.
Shri Mataji: This must, this must be Chinese.
Sahaja Yogi: Cinzia. So, a lovely little girl, her name is Cinzia.
Shri Mataji: Cinzia, that’s not Indian.
Another Sahaja Yogi: We have a Cynthia here.
Shri Mataji: Must be from Cynthia.
Sahaja Yogi: Ah, Cynthia!
Shri Mataji: Must be from Cynthia. That’s maybe Chinese also. Cinz and all these words are from Chinese.
Like, you see, to make it sweeter we call it “a” like that. Like to the daughter, we call her, say, Betini is daughter, but to sweeten it, “Betia”.

Shri Mataji [about the baby]: Now quite friendly. Not feeling shy so much. Hum, take one more.
[Hindi]. Hum, just have it. Now, I’ll put in the mouth. Ah, ah, ah. What a shyness, that suddenly it come upon them. Now you must give me bunch otherwise.
Sahaja Yogini: Paula, Paula is making.
Shri Mataji: All right. Or I can do it. You see what I, listen, keep it. I’ll come back and have. Sahaja Yogi: No, I think it’s ready soon, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Is it ready? It’s all right. Otherwise don’t cook.
Sahaja Yogi: It’s so much ready Mother.
Shri Mataji: Otherwise I can come back and have. I’m not in a hurry, at all.

So, you have to little bit educate Me about America.
[Laughter]
How to tackle the America.
Sahaja Yogi: I’ll do everything I can.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Sahaja Yogi: I’ll do everything I can.
Shri Mataji: Now you just tell Me one thing. Now say, take it like this, when you came to Sahaja Yoga what impressed you, how you came you see, what was your psychological barrier? Let’s see that. Because, you see, that’s how I can tackle them.
What do you say?
Sahaja Yogi: I think it was the intellectual sort of- connected with the things that I needed before, with my preconceptions about what Realization was, wasn’t, and what it meant to be Realized. what I actually felt.
Shri Mataji [to the baby who felt down]: All right, all right, doesn’t matter, doesn’t matter. Doesn’t matter.
Sahaja Yogi: So, it was about a week, you know, [inaudible] then I realized that, I couldn’t compare it with anything, and I couldn’t judge it with anything because it’s-.
Shri Mataji: Come here. Come here. It’s a good idea to understand it that way.
You see because Sahaja Yoga has many, many aspects and many you see things are, but to whom it will appeal what is we should try to find out, isn’t it? Now, what intellectual side of Sahaja Yoga appealed to you? First of all.
Sahaja Yogi: Well, it didn’t relate to the things I knew.
Shri Mataji: Knew already.
Sahaja Yogi: But from the experience that I received, I knew it must be something, by which I judge other things by that, rose and judged Sahaja yoga what I did before, because nothing else has given me,
Shri Mataji: This thing,
Sahaja Yogi: That thing, the thoughtless awareness.
Shri Mataji: So then, how should I proceed with them? Should I tell them that, if I tell them say, for example, that nothing you can relate it to, whatever you have known so far. Will they be happy to know that?
Sahaja Yogi: That, that should be a good thing to say.
Shri Mataji: They would.
Sahaja Yogi: It would appeal to me anyway but I mean, that’s just me.
Shri Mataji: I mean it must because that would make you think at least that, “I have to seek something new. I mean something different”. The newness of it, that may appeal?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes. The idea that I had trouble with, was that it’s the only the way to do it, cause I had all these ideas to do other ways, different.
Shri Mataji: Why this only?
Sahaja Yogi: It was sort of things I followed, you know, sophisticated and modern staff, and all other stuff. And I think I had been limited to one thing, cause at first, it was how to deal with.
Shri Mataji: Accept that there’s only one way of doing it.
Sahaja Yogi: That would, that seems it would be a difficult thing for most people in America. Shri Mataji: But why, the basic reason, they want to have many things because, see, the choice, a choice, they want to have a choice. That’s a very ego feeling, you see, because, as I told you, that in America if you go, you must better ask them how to open the tap. If you just try to open the tap, and you may find you to a swimming pool. So, I mean they have all different taps, styles, they’ll have different door knobs, different, the opening style different, everything different. So, this choice business, you see. But there is no choice with Divine. It’s already decided. But that, they find it difficult to accept, I think.
When it is selling, when it is selling, then you can have choice. But when somebody’s giving, how can you have choice? But they can’t understand giving, because that is also not related to what you have known so far. You have never known giving.
[Laughter]

Sahaja Yogi: Almost
Shri Mataji [about feeding the baby]: Still going in.
Sahaja Yogi: It’s like the feeding of the Five Thousand, Mother.
[Laughter]
Shri Mataji [about the baby]: Can you believe it?
Sahaja Yogi: Believe Mother, yes, we can. Twenty-one.
Shri Mataji: Now, take it. So much.
Sahaja Yogi: Twenty-one Mother.
Shri Mataji: Really?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: You were all wondering. Hop!
Sahaja Yogi: We thought there was a hole in the pot.
[Laughter]

Shri Mataji: So many things happen like that, little, little things, you see.
We had this Sahasrara program. And for that, you know, they decided a very far-fetched thing. You had to go to an absolute wild place, which you are going to have this time when you will go to India. And you had to go through a, ply through a, about hundred yards of sea to go to the other side of an island. And there is open sea the other side.
So, we went down. And they said, “We have to do the cooking. So, what should we do?”
So, the boys, you see, in India, are hopeless absolutely, they don’t know how to do anything whatsoever. Modi and her brother, and Mr. Pradhan and all these people, they said, “Now tell us how to do this, something cooking, simple, Acha [good], some sort of a pulao, rice pulao”. I said, “All right”.
While we were driving in the car, you see, I told them how to do it. I told them, “Take now. For how many people? ” It was for, they said, about three hundred people. “Three hundred people? Now you have never touched it, you don’t know how to cook”. They said, “We’ll tell somebody. There’s a cook coming out”.

So, in the car I told them for, for three hundred people, how much rice, how much ghee, how much masala, how much everything, all that I told them in weight. In fifteen minutes, I told them how to make it, everything. And, then, when we went there, it was such a perfect pulao, you can’t imagine. Such a miracle! And everybody said, “We have never eaten such a pulao. Who has made this and how it has worked out?”
The cook had never done it that way, you see. And there were ten things to be put and at least six, seven masalas to be put, this has to go there and so many things! It’s such a kichiri. That is called like “Ravan bhat”, means the, as Ravana had ten heads, you see, like that, it was the rice.
It came out so perfect and so tasty and so fragrant! Of, I don’t know, it was such a miracle for three hundred people. And they were four hundred people. And the whole, I mean the masala has to be absolutely perfect for that size. And what they did, they went to the market, they ordered, “Give us so much, so much, so much, so many kilos, so many kilos, so many kilos, all right”. And they gave it to the cook, “So, this is the recipe, just try”. The whole thing worked out absolutely perfect.

And everybody ate and ate and ate and ate! So much so that they couldn’t lift their bodies.
Absolutely dead time. And I told them that, returning time, better keep it six o’clock, because I know what will happen after they eat that rice. And it was absolutely sufficient for everyone. And we had taken one gentleman with us who had never been to Sahaja Yoga. He said, “I’ve never enjoyed in my life so much as I ‘ve enjoyed there.” And everything was first class. And I told them about – they’ve made also curry out of the yogurt. “A little thing”, I said, “you add to that, of the- we did, what you call, raw coconut. And the whole thing was so good that they were wondering how it was worked so exact, because, you see, these spices are very dangerous thing, I mean, if you have something more or less it doesn’t come out. But it just worked out. And fifteen minutes I had to tell them, in the car. Ramesh was sitting in front. He was writing “so many kilos, so many kilos, so many kilos, so many kilos”. And forty kilos of rice was cooked. And four hundred people ate. And the- you must get the tape. Did you get the tape for Sahasrara day?
Sahaja Yogi: I don’t think, was it [inaudible] there?
Shri Mataji: No, from Bombay. Did you get? One from Bombay.
Sahaja Yogi: I don’t think so, Mother,
Sahaja Yogini: Ruth’s letter with most of the talks in it. And she said it’s going to be written in the Nirmala Yoga next month.
Shri Mataji: Hum, then it’s all right. Then it’s all right.
If it is translated, it’s all right. Yesterday’s speech was good also [inaudible]. It was very good, isn’t it? It has cleared out many people, it was nicely balanced.

So now, first thing I have to tell them, as you say, that it does not relate to what you have known so far. But with Americans another problem is that they are very sold out to traditions.

So, if you talk, there was- I must tell you an experience. There was one fellow who came, very well-known man there, who does lot of TV, this that. He came to see Me. And when I was talking to him then he asked Me, “What do you think of –
Shri Mataji [talking about the baby], “She has given up”. All right, have some more.
[Laughter]
The jugglery going on. Still, there’s more.
And that gentleman, he said that- no I told him that, “He was not good, Ramakrishna was not good”. Immediately he folded all these things and he [inaudible] “Thank you very much”. And then these people telephoned to him. They said, “Why, why did you behave like this towards Mother? Why did you do this? So, he said, “But, you see, this Sahaja Yoga is not traditional”. He said: “What do you mean?” He said, “Why should She say such a thing about Ramakrishna?” According to them, Ramakrishna is very traditional. In which way Ramakrishna is traditional? That he used to dance, he used to dress up like a lady, do all kinds of dramas. Which tradition is that in India? But they have certain conceptions of the traditions, only fifty years old tradition they accept.
And then anything you tell them – you were there for this Lewes meeting, you see, that girl asked Me a question.
Sahaja Yogi: No, I was at the theatre. But I couldn’t manage so…
Shri Mataji: Lewes, you were not there?
Sahaja Yogi: No, I was not.
Shri Mataji: She asked Me a question about the tradition part of it and I told her what was the traditional. And this was all kept a secret for six centuries, nobody talked about Realization. You see, to them, tradition means whatever people have been working out for the last fifty years: it’s tradition. It’s not. On the contrary, all these fifty years, they have ruined all the traditions of India. Absolutely. Absolutely, no traditions at all.
Say, fifty years back came the star of Pluto, of fifty years back when I was born. And just after My birth, everything moved in such a fast way, the negative side, because they knew that now, their end has come. So, the anti-God activities became extremely powerful. The day I was baptized was the fifteenth day of My birth, and there was a carriage by which we were going. You see, in these days we used to have “tongas” [horse-cart] in India. And the horse fell down, the horse went up like that, actually, and the cart felt down. It broke into two and I felt inside the cart. On top of Me was the cart, on top of that felt all these things. But nothing happened to Me. See, the negativity, how fast it is working.

Then, after that, I got terrible blisters on my body, all over the body. For six months I was just covered with blisters. So many were negative forces like that. I still have one or two marks in the body, one mark here [on the left arm]. So, you can imagine how powerful these forces were at that time. But my mother said that, “You were bleeding, never you cried about it. Nothing. You were bleeding and we were afraid to touch you cause all body was filled with blisters”. But from nothing at all, it came, so they did not understand. So how negativity has worked throughout, shows that they just expedited all their forces, brought in.

So, these sixty years, as of course, Sahaja Yoga, has come out of it, but the other side is also very deep, and it has a very deep bearing in America, because last sixty years have been important for America also, very important. And how many changes in these last sixty years in America has taken place! How many presidents you have had? I think when I was born- when did Abraham Lincoln died?
Sahaja Yogi: 1866, ’67 just after the Civil War.
Shri Mataji: Ah. And then?
Sahaja Yogi: Then Grant, Ulysses S. Grant the general as President.
Shri Mataji: Eisenhower came. Before Eisenhower who was the thing?
Sahaja Yogi: Truman, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Truman I mean. I think from my birth was Truman. You see, Truman came, then Eisenhower, I mean so many.
Sahaja Yogi: Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, I think Nixon. Johnson. Johnson, Nixon.
Shri Mataji: Five, just imagine! And in sixty years’ time. Who was before Truman? Eisenhower?
Sahaja Yogi: No, Roosevelt, Roosevelt.
Shri Mataji: No, no, Roosevelt it is. Roosevelt. I was with Roosevelt. I remember Roosevelt also very well. Roosevelt was one great person, I mean, very great. After Roosevelt, horrible! It’s going round and round. This Reagan is, he has no vision, he has no higher feelings, nothing.
You see to combat Russia, you must have people like Mahatma Gandhi, you see, who knew the power of human beings, you see. Not people like Reagan can fight, nor this Mrs. Margaret Thatcher. You need people like Mahatma Gandhi to fight these. To fight a sword, you must have a shield, proper shield, not a sword. And if you could produce someone like Abraham Lincoln now, he can put them right. But that one also, Abraham Lincoln, is another great blessing they had, what a great blessing! There’s only one road somewhere very far-fetched I saw once, in his name, nothing else I saw! I mean once a statue I saw of Abraham Lincoln. And he was the greatest man you could think of.
And even greater than Jawaharlal Nehru or anyone because, he gave such great conceptions and such great ideas about freedom. What about these Reagan and all? I mean imagine a cinema actor! English would not accept that at least. Of course, even Margaret Thatcher is petty trader sort of a person. But Reagan, I just don’t understand.

Sahaja Yogi: There didn’t seem to be much choice for the elections.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Sahaja Yogi: There didn’t seem to be much choice, just between him and Jimmy Carter.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Sahaja Yogi: There is no other choice.
Shri Mataji: First, the Jimmy Carter was a wrong idea, you see. That’s like stepping down one after another. So, between them two, I don’t know. But such a great country, you have such great thinkers. Do you have only these two clowns there to vote for? What I am saying, why not bringing out some great people? People with ideas, people with higher thinking. Or you cannot beat Russians otherwise, unless and until you talk big. You have to tell them all these big things, then Russians can’t talk.

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, they have such a show business attitude towards everything. They have no-
Shri Mataji: Americans.
Sahaja Yogi: They don’t take it seriously. Even the West, with the Indians, they just make movies out of India. They never see the reality.

Sahaja Yogi: Is it, is it because they harm their roots?
Shri Mataji: Oh, you must have leaders who are visionaries, you see, those who have bigger ideas. Otherwise how are they leaders? Leaders must have some big ideas, you see, the leadership is that a leader will never tackle small problems of their followers but give them problems, “All right, solve this. Solve this problem. We have to do. Now I have to go to America, now tell Me what am I to do”. That’s how you should lead people. Put their mind into it. Instead of that you put your mind into their smaller problems, you see, finished!

Sahaja Yogi: Do you think, Mother, that it’s maybe because they, they don’t feel their own roots, they don’t feel their own worth, that they…
Shri Mataji: No, you see, it has an advantage that also, because they don’t feel their roots they should think of much higher things. Because deep rooted people can be quite [Shri Mataji thrusts her fist towards the ground] you see, conditioned type, very conditioned type. But they should really fly out with their wings. Instead of that, that is floating here and there. Actually, those who have no roots should fly out, isn’t it? I mean those who have roots, the birds are higher than the trees, aren’t they?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
[Laughter]
Shri Mataji: And I had that feeling about, because if you read Abraham Lincoln you do feel, “Isn’t it Sahaj?” Really, he was talking of golden Age, I think.
Sahaja Yogi: It was a new country.
Shri Mataji: Absolutely. And the newness, and the new ideas, and all that, it’s all brought down, just like that, collapsing type.
Now, say, French, very deep rooted, now where are they going? Horrible. They hate everyone, very big headache they are! I tell you, wherever there’s a French, it’s a headache. [Shri Mataji holds her head] in the diplomatic- [Talking to the French leader Alexandre] No, no, you are a Yogi. He’s a Yogi now, he’s a Yogi. But it’s a fact, you ask him, it’s not a fact?
Alexandre: That’s true Mother.
Shri Mataji: You see, for nothing at all they create a problem. And in diplomatic services, ah!
They create problems after problems.

[A Sahaja Yogini comes with the lunch] What is it? I have to talk there.
Sahaja Yogini: Fish and seaweed, Mother.
Shri Mataji: But I’ll sleep like a log of wood if you give me all that.
[Laughter]
Sahaja Yogini: It’s just seaweed [inaudible].
Shri Mataji: All right. All right.
Sahaja Yogini: It seems that it is quite big but-
Shri Mataji: That’s fish! It looks so nice, you can’t imagine. Which is the seaweed?
Sahaja Yogini: It’s the black underneath, is the seaweed.
Shri Mataji: It’s that? All right. And that’s the fish.
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.
And this is some of the sesame seeds. That’s all, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Then I won’t have all this, just that. Thank you.
You got the seaweed.
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.
Shri Mataji: I must teach this boy to clean it.
Fine!
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Excellent. You said this is Chinese?
Sahaja Yogini: Japanese.
Shri Mataji: Japanese?
Sahaja Yogini: I mean seaweed.
Shri Mataji: Oh, horrible Japanese are. They can’t make like this.
[Laughter]
They just can’t make that.
Sahaja Yogini: This Chantal has told me how to make it.
Shri Mataji: Chantal has done?
Sahaja Yogini: She, she said how to make it this morning. I got the ingredients.
Shri Mataji: Very nice, I tell you, very, very nice. And the fish is very good, too.

Pamela, you have made it or she has made it?
Sahaja Yogini: I made it Mother, but Chantal told me how to make the seaweed.
Shri Mataji: What did you do with the fish?
Sahaja Yogini: Roast baked in the oven.
Shri Mataji: Just baked it?
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Remarkable. What else you have? Mushrooms?
Sahaja Yogini: Mushrooms, carrots, onions and that’s all. A little bit of tomato sauce and ginger.
Shri Mataji: And there’s butter also.
Sahaja Yogini: A little bit of ghee. I kept at minimum.
Shri Mataji: A little.
Sahaja Yogini: A little bit ghee.
Shri Mataji: Ghee. Very good. Excellent. You must eat rice oven. And I should find out about this shop in London, what shop you were saying?
Sahaja Yogini: The body shop, yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: You get seaweed there? Where do you get seaweeds?
Sahaja Yogi: Neal’s yard, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Sahaja Yogi: Neal’s yard. Chantal’s work there, Mother. She can get it for You.
Shri Mataji: Oh, I’ll ask Chantal to come and teach to cook, how to do it.

I never knew seaweed was so nice.
I never knew they were so nice. I thought that Japanese eat everything so…
She works in a health, health trade, does she?
Sahaja Yogini: She works in a dairy, Mother. She makes the cheese and yogurt in the dairy. Shri Mataji: Dairy.
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.
Shri Mataji: You were, you two, doing something like that, was he? You were not connected with that sort of thing.
Sahaja Yogi: I’ve met Paul there who introduced me to You at the meeting.
Shri Mataji: Oh, I see. Whom did you meet?
Sahaja Yogi: Paul Danken. Paul.
Shri Mataji: Winston told Me something. I used to think that was, Covent Garden was beyond the river. That day, first day when I went there, I knew it was here. I’ve never seen it before. And that, that system of that clock you know, that’s very interesting. [Laughter] And we reached there at the time when it was- Hello, how are you today?
Sahaja Yogini: Sorry for coming late, Mother.
Shri Mataji: No, it’s all right. We went out. I bought some laces. Do you know there is very nice shop now.
Sahaja Yogini: Good.
Shri Mataji: Which sells all for the past, What? It sells the past.
Sahaja Yogini: Antiques.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes. The past for sell, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Not antiques, laces and very nice- I bought for twenty pounds so many laces, you can’t imagine! Laces, lace work, lace- what you call- curtains. Complete curtains, made of hand, made in hand, with thread. Can you show her?
Sahaja Yogi: They are still in the car Mother.
Shri Mataji: Where is the car?
Sahaja Yogi: With Paul.
Sahaja Yogini: Mother I wanted to give You this one, and wanted to show you what has happened. Because last year in Hampstead, remember we gave You one like this and I remember how much Mother had loved it. And we had one this one at home. For one year we’ve kept it and it was resting. And just quiet because it is not yet the season. And every day I was looking at it. And four days back I thought, “Ah, I think, I feel when Mother comes, it will make a flower”. And when I woke up this morning, this was present.
Shri Mataji: How sweet it is! You know, this is called as the flower of eternal in India, anantya. It’s called as that, gardenia. And then when you gave Me, I’ll really looked after it. See how many there are!
Sahaja Yogini: Yes. I just bought, I saw little buds coming and I felt, I was sure, because Mother loves it, it would know that You are here.
Shri Mataji: You see how nature works it, so sweet.
Sahaja Yogini: So great to see.
Shri Mataji: Thank you very much. Just imagine this flower, I discovered only just after I started Sahaja Yoga and named it. You wanted to know how the name of the Trust which was not very definite like Sahaja Yoga but something, little ambiguous I should say. So, I said, “All right, the Life Eternal. Call it the Life Eternal, you see”.
And, in Marathi translation, Hindi transposed, “Ananda Jivan”. Then after that, one day I discovered this flower, some people had brought it. So, I asked them, “What is this flower called here?” They said, “It’s called as the flower of eternal, anantya”. Just tremendous fragrance! But it’s Indian flower, actually. But the best part is most of your flowers are not fragrant.

Nature works in all its detail, in all its detail. And so many things, I tell you now. In America I am going, the man who is going to helps us is Dr. Marwah. He says that he knows many people here and he will arrange a TV and everything, in Los Angeles. And see now, he’s become the Mayor of Los Angeles.
Sahaja Yogini: Oh, great. That’s good.
Shri Mataji: What help we get! But despite all that, as you told Me about that money crawling in, despite all that, human beings are the ones who will let us down. Whatever we may try, God is trying his level best to do this and to do that, everything. Same thing in New York. There was one Dr. Lanjeevan whom I met. And he wanted Me, somehow or another, to talk to doctors and all that. But he said, “I don’t know if people will listen to me and all that”. And he became the chairman, chairman of all the practicing doctors of New York, that association. But then he refused to do anything for Me. And next year, he lost his job, got into trouble, everything he had. But he became the chairman and refused to do anything for Me. Then he had problems.
So, nature, even God’s help, everything is perfect. You can’t blame it. The earnestness of Sahaja Yogis, their desire to get so many to Sahaja Yoga, everything is there. But somehow, the negative forces are so active, that human beings, you see, they can’t see things through. It’s very sad. What’s going to happen to all these people? They don’t know they will go to Hell and Hell is so horrid. There’s no other way out. I mean I can go to any extent to please them, to do what they want but they must get their Realization.

There’s somebody who wanted to meet Me. So C.P. said, “He must come and see You. You are a saint. He’s coming to see you as a saint. He should come and see You. Why should You go and see him?” I said, “Baba, it doesn’t matter. But if it will help Sahaja Yoga I will go and see him. I don’t mind, I have no dignity, nothing. I’ll just go and see the fellow if it works out for good”. But never, I tried anything.

Such help, you can’t imagine! I was in Bangalore and there was a yoga teacher. And he came to Me and he wanted to talk and as usual, he became rather rude. He said, “But why should you say that You have got Realization? Why should You say that You can raise the Kundalini?” I said, “I never said that”. Because one of his assistants had come to Me. So, I said, ” I’ve never told her”. She knows about Me, so many people know. Ask her. At that time only who comes in, is the Secretary of the President of India, whom I have cured. He just jumped on him. He said, “You are a very rude and arrogant fellow”. What do you mean by saying such things to Her? Do you know what She has done, who is She? Who are you? Why should you ask such a question? He just jumped on him. “You’re a very rude and arrogant person. What do you mean by saying these things? What authority you have to say such things to Her? Do you know She’s cured our President? I’ve seen it with my eyes. She’s cured one man and I’ve seen it.
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It was remarkable because we, form was very interested itself, doesn’t matter. But there is a beautiful church and when you go through the church you have to go down. And there you find, there is a little statue, of Mother of Christ. The face is exactly like mine, is put there. And the story about it, that two children who were running after some-…
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