Lodge Hill Centre, Pulborough, (England), July 23rd, 1983

[Shri Mataji is inviting journalists to come closer to watch the show.]
Shri Mataji: The journalist from Ruth and the journalist from Mulhouse.
From Brighton also? Who else is there?
There’s a sit there, come and sit. And she can move these flowers here, wait, just a second. Now you can come here, come sit down.
[Name unclear] you can come sit on the ground?
Pull, pull, pull it forward.
Just [Unclear], yes, sit here.

[No sound]
Where is the journalist? [Unclear]
Sahaja Yogi: From Brighton?
Shri Mataji: From Brighton.
Sahaja Yogi: Is there a journalist from Brighton here?
Shri Mataji: Yes, the one who is doing the picture and all that.
Sahaja Yogi: That is John Noyce.
Sahaja Yogis: Oh John, John Noyce, John Noyce.
Gregoire: Is John Noyce in the room?
Another Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Senior people should come forward. You see, the young people should not sit on the chairs.
Gregoire: You are John Noyce, please, have a seat.
Shri Mataji: Let the senior people sit down and children should sit in front.
Gregoire: There is still a seat here.
Another Sahaja Yogi: John, come here!
Shri Mataji: You must understand, you must respect the elderly, all right.
Come, are you an elder or younger?
Gregoire: Sahaja Yoga –
Shri Mataji: Those who think themselves to be elders can come forward. [Shri Mataji is smiling]
Gregoire: Sahaja Yoga, being also educating good manners, it is suggested that the first rows are reserved for elder people.

[Sahaja Yogi speaking aside about the sound]

Shri Mataji: ‘Guest, should not sit in front. That’s not proper’. He said. Guest should be in front and the hosts should be behind. But the host will be sitting in front, it’s not proper. Hosts are also elders.
Gregoire: For – you have all understood. Shri Mataji may I…
Sahaja Yogi [fixing the mike]: It’s all right, it’s all right now.
Shri Mataji: [Inaudible] Let’s sit down here. Ladies [cut in the audio]

Gregoire: Oh, the writer, the writer who organised. May I start introducing about him?
[Shri Mataji nods].
Gregoire: Thank you.
[Sahaja Yogi speaking aside about the sound: Can you check it again? Can you check it again please? Can you check it again? Another Sahaja Yogi: Yes.]

[Cut in the audio. Gregoire starts speaking]

Gregoire: Pratap Pawar is one of the best exponents of Kathak in India. Kathak gives a traditional narrative form of dance which was popular, especially in northern India, centring on the stories of Shri Krishna and Shri Radha. And we have to understand the importance of this oral tradition, because it was a way to bring the life of God and the worship of God through gestures, through dance in the remotest villages of the country.
Pratap Pawar, a graduate of the Agre [unsure] University [cut in the audio] of Pandit Birju Maharaj.

Shri Mataji: Very famous artist, a very great artist, Birju Maharaj. He’s one of the masters.
Gregoire: He taught Kathak for five years in the American International school and three years in the Northern school in New Delhi. He has played extensively in various countries such as Singapore, Japan, Hong Kong, the Philippines, South Africa, West Indies and Indonesia and also UK, where we had the privilege of seeing him a few days ago in a wonderful programme which was praised by Shri Mataji and Mr C.P. Srivastava. And he played in Thailand and the USA where he was acclaimed as one of the greatest artists in his art. He worked for eight years as a Student Chorographer in South America, West Indies on behalf of the government of India. Pratap and Priya Pawar they have been taking part in worlds music conference and TV shows in many parts of the world and represent as a team [unsure] at the Vidya Barrel in London. Priya Pawar is then dance, dancing with her husband and had a rigorous training in both Kathak and Odissi.

Shri Mataji: To start. To start, it was Odissi. [Unsure].
Gregoire: From the?
Shri Mataji: Priya Pawar comes from Odissi. [Unsure]
Gregoire: She was taught Odissi dance style by Guru Kelucharan Mahapatra [and Guru] Hare Krishna Behara.

And she is also a remarkable artist which has been widely recommended and praised by the connoisseur of the art. Perhaps I could, shortly introduce the musicians. At the table, we will have Markandeya Mishra. At the sarangi –
Shri Mataji: Pandit Markandeya.
Gregoire: Sorry.
Shri Mataji: Very great artist from.
Gregoire: Who is?
Shri Mataji: Pandit Markandeya.
Gregoire: Pandit? Eh okay.
At the table, we will have Pandit Markendeya Mishra who Shri Mataji says is also a very great and renowned artist. At the sarangi will have Mr. Nicolas Mc Grill and we also will have Mr. Prashant Pawar playing on [sumurdhal and janji; unsure].

The program perhaps, very shortly, will start with a praise, the prayer, Shantakaram Lakshmi Kantam a prayer in worship of Shri Vishnu and his consort Lakshmi. And then the mime and the gestures of Pratap and Priya will express how they pay homage to Lord Vishnu who, as we all know, is the protector of the whole universe and the inspirer of many great sages. And leading us to the Nabhi chakra of Shri Mataji.

The second performance will be ‘Mangala Charan’ an invocation dedicated to Lord Ganesha.

Shri Mataji: It’s always in a [IP] puja as it’s so, they will take the name of Shri Vishnu first because of the ascent part, because of the evolutionary part. So, it’s always twenty-one names of this part and then they say the Ganesha. Because first we prepare ourselves and then we do the Ganesha at first to bring Ganesha from, Ganesha til it starts. But our desire is to be expressed through Vishnu that, “We want our ascent “.

Gregoire: The third performance is called ‘The rosary of rhythm’. It is a more technical performance which will be a presentation of Kathak by Shri Pratap combined to the musician in the traditional way, emphasising the rhythmic aspects of the style.

The fourth performance is called ‘Moksha’ and probably Shri Pratap will himself introduce it.

Then we have a performance called ‘Tarana palave’, Palave means elaboration. Here the dancer elaborates the body through lyrical movements set to the drum in force six and seven beats’ times cycle. The music is based on raga Kalyan.

Six and Seventh performance of the students of Shri Pratap will be commented by himself and the last performance will be Jugal bandi.
Shri Mataji: Jugalbandi [duet of two soloists].
Gregoire: Jugalbandi.

And on Jugalbandi, Shri Pratap will also himself –
Shri Mataji: No, both of them. This is maya. ‘Jugal’ means two persons.
Gregoire: Ah, so it will be a duo between the two artists.

Shri Mataji: I think I’ll talk two minutes; I think.
Gregoire: Sorry.
Shri Mataji: Just two minutes.
Gregoire: Two minutes.
Shri Mataji: At the very outset, we have to thank Pratap Pawar for this program, that he’s doing a tour, graciously and so generously and he came to me and he told me that he wants to dance in my presence sometime, somewhere. And it would be a good idea, just to surrender his dancing.

And we found that this was the best time, opportune time, to start his dancing. I see it’s rather late [unsure] to see the- also artist, their goods are built up with the time because of the, you know, spontaneity of the art as it is. But he is going to perform it and you’ll see that they go into their exuberance how they are trying to get the best out of it. Only thing I have to tell you one thing, that in India that a artist is very much respected. So much so that, I’ve never sat before an artist on a coach, [Unclear] but if it’s on a chair, it’s all right. But then an artist is to be respected because an artist in India always expresses the God’s will, the devotion to God, dedication to God. All connected to something so sublime and that’s how we have to be very, very thankful to Mr Pawar and Mr Mishra and all his family who have come here. Mrs Pawar is another very, very great dancer that is making us relieved [unsure] and a good housewife and has a – her daughter and her son are also Realised souls. It’s a very great blessing to all of us.
And also, I have to thank the Sahaja Yogis, who have been taken some lessons with [inaudible] to learn how to dance. So, at the very outset I would like to thank all of them and bless them, fully with my heart that they should do India art and through the rhythmic patterns build up Sahaja Yoga within the hearts of the people.
[Applause]

[Mr Pawar and Mrs Pawar’s dance]
[Sarangi].
[Mr Pawar ‘s dance]

Pratap Pawar: Mother.
Dear brothers and sisters, tonight is very special occasion for myself and my colleagues because we all have come to seek blessings to Mother [Hindi?]. This very style you are witnessing is a kathak dance which was born in the temples of Krishna [Unclear]. Though today, there are a lot of modifications and sophistications have come, and artists are more conscious of the presentation. But the story is the same. Now, this is Gunda [name] style: the dancers, they speak to the audience, just for a better understanding. For example, I will do [name] which is a combination of clap and stamp the ground. And the first, in the beginning, the clap will be wider, then smaller and more closer. Then, we’ll bring in the climax together.

The next dance is the pirouette, the spinnings. And [Unclear] has got twenty-one continuous spins.

[ Pratap Pawar is saying the ‘taranas’ of the rhythm]. Twenty-one steps.

‘Dhoom’ is a pause, baydhoom [unsure], without pause. I’ll speak one pattern, one break.

Nine, nine, nine, twenty-seven.

This particular style of Kathak has got many aspects as you can see, we are trying to cover everything as possible. There’s another one, improvisation which is just born on the spot, on the spare of the moment and sometime, you don’t even have time. Now Mishra played something very beautiful. So far, he has become, he has being accompanying me. This time, I will try to do his piece. But what he just played now, I requested him to play it again and I will try to interpret him. It’s just an improvisation in front of you.

Shri Mataji: It’s spontaneous art! See the spontaneous art, that’s the beauty of Indian art, because it is spontaneous.

Pratap: Our Mother is saying, She is very kind and I can explain to you more. She is saying it’s spontaneous, it’s very true. He just, he plays and he inspired me and I try my best to bring it up.

Now. So far, I have been showing you the technique, more faster things. Now I come to the expression, the facial expression. First, I’ll show you, just a beautiful game and then I’ll show you five different ways of covering and revealing of the faces. Traditionally speaking in India, ladies cover their beautiful faces with a vale. Now Kathak dancer, no matter a male dancer, essentially, he has to show all the aspects of the life. So, I’ll show you five ways of opening the face. [Hindi?].

The next one. When I will look to my left, there is Lord Krishna and when I look to my right, His consort, Radha. Similar expression, Krishna and Radha, I will use: flute or vale or the nose ring. Just with the eyes, Krishna and Radha.

We started very late, for various reasons. And naturally we have to cut it the program and again with our minds but I’m trying to make it short as much as possible, for the few technical problems we have. Since you are so much enjoying the expression, I’ll show you a Shiva Pranam, Lord Shiva. Can you just hold it, sir. You can join, you’ll bear with me the improvisation and having a live stand. Now Lord Shiva the one who took Ganga in his head. The one who had taken the poison for the benefit of the universe. The one who has got Vishnu in His hand and snakes, that are always on His neck and arms. That Lord Shiva does: [tarana].
[Applause]

We are taking you to the other side of the evening because I am, you are enjoying the performance but I’m looking forward to something with that I’ll tell you later on.
The next item is ‘Moksha’. By coincidence, our friend, let it all out in the beginning when I was expecting him, to tell you one by one but that was also improvisation. Yes, he just came to know at the last moment. Anyway, next one is Moksha, the salvation. Where we witness in the Odissi style, it’s a very different style from this one. ‘Moksha’ as you all know, the ultimate place. In Odissi style, the next item is coming generally in the last one. After that pair, we’ll do again Kathak but this is the last in Odissi style, ‘Moksha’.

Shri Mataji: We can walk that way.

Shri Mataji: Come here, come here. Perhaps those who are in the performance come forward a little bit.

Pratap Pawar: Respected Mother and colleagues, as I told you earlier, that you are already in the performance, I did my best when I admittedly wait till the end.
As you know this occasion, I don’t want to tell all of you. But this is Guru puja. So, every disciple is expected to offer something. And [Unclear] I didn’t have so much to offer to Mother. I brought a small offering that is in a form dance with seven Sahaja Yogis from Russia that are coming to my dance classes. They are very powerful now, they just they, happily they started. And they come once in a week. And there’s nothing but I keep on telling them in regularly time, [Unclear] visit 8th of a city approximately and they hardly get once in seven days. So, you can imagine how many times they got to learn. So, this is, I won’t call this a dance, I would call this as humble offering from me to Mother in the form of seven Sahaja Yogis presently performing.

That item that will followed by my daughter, she will do a small impression [unsure], again another offering. First time Mother will see her on here. The names of Sahaja Yogis is: Stan [unsure], Gent, Laura [unsure], Pedro, Alan, Paul and Eric.

Shri Mataji: We have to thank him for training the Sahaja Yogis. You see, he did not tell me, then I saw. [Unsure].

Come here.

Pratap: It’s okay I think, [Hindi or Marathi conversation].
Shri Mataji: Pratap?

[Hindi or Marathi, spoken between Shri Mataji & Pratap]
[About a mudra].
Pratap: They are offering the flowers, the flowers.

I hope Mother has [inaudible]. It is smaller but I’ll ask my daughter, you won’t believe, she can do the one prayer [name unclear]. And she did not even know that she would be dancing. But, as I said, it’s not a performance. I call it a puja. She will do a smaller one.

Now, one last traditional thing, country use, traditional thing. I sing.

I think, our very dear friend and colleague, Pandit Markendeya Mishra who is playing ragas on tabla, definitely deserves a very big well done, a hand.
Many times, people wonder that, what is this instrument ‘sarangi’, keep on playing just one ‘til’ on time. [Marathi?]. And perhaps they don’t know. This instrument plays the most important role in the whole sequence that is keeping the right time with a beautiful manoeuvring. When we play inside, for example, in doing cycles of sixteen. He’s just all the time keeping the measurement as a clock. Of course, with a beautiful melody. And then only could be judged with a drummer and dancer coming together all right or not. So, he plays a very important role, Mr Nicolas [name unclear].

The concluding of our evening is Jugalbandi, a duet, a friendly contest between two dancers. Obviously, it happens to be me and my wife.
[Laughter]

It’s the last number. It’s a friendly fight or a friendly contest you can call it. Before we both come and display this beautiful number, I request Mishraji to play two or three little things for you. Mother always likes to hear Mishraji’s solo. Now, this he’ll play two or three nice pieces to play.
Shri Mataji: [Unclear, about renowned artist]

Pratap: Thank you.
Shri Mataji: [Unclear]
Pratap: So, we’ll come back to you meanwhile and put it on position because they are [Unclear].

Pandit: I little bit play [Unclear] and stop, how to bring it. [Unclear].
Pandit: Sinking, a slow speed and then double and how the change is so, in a different way.
Shri Mataji: [Unclear]

Pratap: Very precious Pranam from Jaipur’s school of dance. There’s two dance schools in Kathak: Lucknow and Jaipur. Jaipur is quite vigorous in her own way. Taking one ‘dha’ should take two spins, ‘dha, dha’.
Priya: I’ll try.
Pratap: She says ”I’ll try”.
She’ll manage. Again, we will read each other.

Pratap: Now, I will see how many spins she will take.
Priya: At the end try to fifty-one.
Pratap: She said she will take fifty-one rounds. Fifty-one pirouettes.
Fifty-one spins!
[Applause]

I’ve got just really one thing at this moment. Otherwise, I will fail the Devi. I’m praising my wife but I do have a lot of care for her, as a dancer as well. Last, almost a year has gone, she takes this ‘dubra’ [unsure] which has got fifty-one spins. But almost a year has gone and I’ve been asking her to dance and she thinks, she can’t make it any more. [Laughter]
Very honest, because, I am sure you all enjoying, sitting, standing in front of Mother….
Priya: It’s because of her [Shri Mataji].
Pratap: There’s nothing to make up.
So, I was in the dressing room, my daughter, that, “Your daughter was – she was doing twenty-seven so far. She’s been twenty-seven, she has been doing twenty-seven spins so far, in the last I know she did twenty-seven”. Just now, I told her in the dressing room, that, “Your daughter has done twenty-seven already on stage”. And I imagine, was thinking, “What she will do? “And I never expected she will do fifty-one and I never expected she will be able to do fifty-one! [Laughter] Frankly speaking, to be very honest and I think it’s because of Mother’s blessing
Priya: Thank you.
[Applause].

Pratap: To conclude our item, our friendly contest, little bit… I try and take more than fifty-one. Ready to go!

The very last beat, we will create a certain effect, a sound, on taps- this is a sound. It creates a sound and we are wearing about five hundred bells, we’ll try to control them to that extent. And hardly, one or two is ringing. And then will come the last beat, but if I give a clap, they join me.

[Applause. A Yogini gives flowers to Priya].

Shri Mataji: It’s one of the most beautiful experiences that I’ve had. On a Guru puja, to see the dance of so many beautiful children and their guru who really is a master of Kathak and his friend Panditji, who is another master. Now on a Guru puja day, when you all have come to worship Me, I don’t know what should I do to give to another guru. [Laughter]
He is my son. So, for her children, Mother has all the blessings and she is enamoured, the way they have prospered.
May God bless them with this beautiful art which is at the service of God. And you’ll see better days and better days of expression, through art, the love of God. A small thing that I can give to them, is my photograph in which I’m no more an actress, not a dancer but a simple Mother.

[Applause]

Photographs should be given to Pandit also, I can imagine. Most of them are [Unclear].

[Shri Mataji looking through photos of Her, to give to Pandit and Priya].
[Shri Mataji speaking to the performers in Hindi or Marathi]. And to all my children also.

[Applause]

With all the Sahaja Yogis, we thank the artists for this great occasion that they came. And I know there is a little time problem. But if I tell you one thing, you’ll be happy to know that anything we do has to be done according to the auspicious time. And the Guru puja, actually, starts at ten o’clock in the night. So, we could not have had the program before. And that’s why. [Laughter]

Our, we call Ritambhara Pragnya which I have been talking to them in which the blessing of Ritambhara Pragnya is there, that’s why Mrs Pawar’s danced so well, you did everything right. So, we have to go with the ‘Ashima Ashadha chakra’ [unsure]. And accordingly, today’s program was very short.
May God bless you all.
[Applause]

So, tomorrow you’ll get up for the meditation in the morning. We must have a meditation about six o’clock. And then we’ll have, breakfast. After breakfast, we have a program of starting the puja. You should try to start it at nine o’clock.
[Hindi or Marathi]