Talk to Sahaja Yogis, London, England, 16-08-1983
[Partially transcribed – It has 1 hour and 35 minutes of transcription. Total video is 2 hours 47 minutes]
Shri Mataji: I was amazed, how did you manage that. Write and show. These are the katoris (bowls) they sent you from India? These ones? You bought them here. But they have given them some plates, I think.
(Mother talks to a baby) Hello! Come come. How are you now. Are you fine? Are you Alright? (touches baby’s hands). very cold, hands are very cold… Lets go, sit down (kisses the baby)
Now get me some water. Alright?
What is this, Am I going to lecture now?
What am I supposed to do, I have got to consult about this…Journalism.. Hmmm.. I think, while you should come here and see what the agenda is and how we are going to work it out.
Now let us say, how are we going to work it out. What should we do? First, my suggestions are these. Well, you may give your suggestions. I personally think this way, that we should have a formal body, formal, with the people who will be with the journalistic side. Call it by any name. You are calling them in America, by the name of “Golden-Age-International”. So you have a formal body. You must have for that a proper card -shield, and a kind of a appeal “a letter of introduction”. It’s a very “Krishna’ work”, a very subtle work of Shri-Krishna, and we also need to have very clever people in that, rather “mischievous”. Too much honesty so called, with this all dishonest world, will not take us to higher goal. So, to go to higher goal, you have to sacrifice the lower goals, to see that you should have only the name of Sahaj yoga and you should be called as Sahaja yogis, you may land up in jail, if start like that. SO come as something else, so have a form with a proper message , that we are here to contact all the people who have alternatives, to create the “golden Age”. On one side you will have a phase by which people will think you are all neutral people and you can have approach to them directly. And on the other side..
Mother to a Sahaj yogini ….You made that, that will do. You looking very pale, what’s that, working very hard? Take it easy now, you better give her some rest now.
To other Yogis : Now after having that form, on one side you can have a base by which you can meet people, you can reach them easily. You will have your own cards, send them the cards, you are International Golder Age people, responsible. Wear a formal dress, don’t go like this, please. Because we have tried straight forward method, we have failed. Now, we have to save the world. By hook or crook you have to save them. They will be all finished. You cant take them out , out of the water by pulling with your hand, put a hook around them and bring them out. Useless, blind, non-sensical people, they don’t want to see the point. What to do? All right. So, one side you will have a face. On the other side, you will always be in touch of others who are trying to find the alternatives, Other gurus, other false people, other things. So very cleverly bring them down to Sahaj-yoga. It’s a Fifth columnist. You have to enter into them and tell them, ultimately this is the goal. Exposing all of them, One by one. Because you will be a body, a form of a body that nobody can ask for the bonafides. I mean you enter into these bonafides and say this is the point and say. We did that, Brian did that in Australia, when they brought Sahaja Yoga into some problem and then it was, they asked for forgiveness and the whole joke was out and people didn’t understand , that’s what brought Sahaja-Yoga to a great level. Is’nt it Brian. It’s a big drama they played. (Mother laughs). They tell us, that they wrote against those people for something else and then it was a big Drama and then it was said later on that nothing like Sahaja-Yogi, you see , something like that we have to do. No simple methods are going to work on these cunning people. Extremely cunning. Journalists here are very cunning people, extremely cunning. Now, you immediately become formal, you find out all the newspapers, all the editors and go to see them. You must have black suits, with white lines, you see, and with oil in the hair (everyone laughs). You talk purely English, that’s the best. Little mixed is Alright, but don’t take a person who is from Scotland to an English Editor. See there are basics bias is there. So better take a Scot one to Scotland , alright and Speak with a little accent. These are stupid people , I tell you. All this is done imagine on Vishuddhi. Can you imagine? This is the job of Vishuddhi, so many styles it is. Its not only that you have to speak about it, that it has to go all over through these medias are nothing but Vishuddhi, because they have to be witnessed, they have to manifest it in large English manner. They are supposed to do it. They are placed there for this reason. So, if they don’t do it, better use the other side of it. Because they are there for this purpose, why God has created them and put them in this position. Just think of it, why did get this media, why God has given them. Just think of it. They are doing all kinds of non-sensical things, they are wasting everybody’s energy into all useless enterprises. They don’t want to do God’s work so you better befool them and make them do it. That’s what they deserve, why God has given them all these powers? They haven’t achieved anything on their own and they cant create a leaf , even dust, they cant create on their own. Can they?
Nothing can be created by a man , on his own. Can he? They have to use something from nature. So on one side, we have this. Now there was one, who did on his own this experiment, in the capital city. So, he joined an organization which was trying to save people from all other gurus, false gurus. He tried to save them and he became quite prominent there and instead of sending them to catholic church, he sent them to Sahaja-Yoga. And he said, let me here mother, it’s a good idea. Then, I can catch people and send them , that’s how you got “Benaur “ and all those people, he sent them. He makes fun of pope, he makes fun of everyone and he is laughing around and he is arranging all that . Somebody met him and said I have been to this and that, now I am fed up and I will move to Catholism. He said, did you try Sahajyog? Better try, that’s the last one. You try that. He is a very interesting, intelligent man and he comes to my program , all right and somebody asked him, why do you go to Sahaja-Yoga program. He said, I have to find out, there also somebody lost, you see, so I must find them out. He comes to see me, very interesting person, very interesting . He is a priest. And all the lady, the chief lady who is doing the job, is a Sahaja yogi and also this Marrie has joined that organization. There are three Sahaja-Yogis, one is the head, another is the secretary and another is Marrie who are trying to save people to go to catholic church, can you imagine? They are actually saving people from catholic church, so this kind of thing, you must form. There is this that you must have a general appeal and you must also find out how you can approach these people and you should say, we have formed such and such organization here and also in America they are going to form another one. So you can say we have branches in America and also in India and branches all over. See, we can form everywhere. Such branches are not difficult. In Sydney, and he is the head of this branch, Brian, who have come all the way to see us. You can even have a formal inauguration by the Prime Minister. (Mother and All laugh) and give a “rubab” to it . That revenge I must take on Harverly (mother laughs), she gave a rubab eyes to eat, rubab eyes can you imagine? Can there be anything worse than that? Must be some sinister joy.
So, I would suggest that you form a very good organization. All of you are sahaja-yogis. I hope no one will leak out the secret? Is there anybody who will leak out the secret? Please raise your hand (mother and everyone laughs).So all this has to be worked out very carefully and we have to work a tremendous work, we have to save so many people an they are also half-hearted. Suddenly, you find I have lost a one child here and one child there. So, this is a tremendous task and to do this task, they have to be very cautious and careful and all the methods that are employed, we have to employ. Only thing is do not do the “samhaar”, don’t kill anybody, that’s all you do and you leave it to me. You need not tell lies, but you need not tell everything. Everything need not be told to everyone. This is not necessary. They do not have right to know everything about us. That’s all right. So, this kind of a think we should follow. So, you all should have degrees, those who are there. So, put all your MAD’s and PIG’s there (everyone laughs). FROGs and everything (everyone laughs).They are enamored by that, you see. You can wear tie-pin If you want. Try all the methods and go to a special hair dresser. Some people can even wear a wig, I don’t mind, and take out your rings, where you have your mother’s humble photographs. You better take out the rings and things . Inside you can wear something, but not outside. But, if you are wearing something, you just turn it around, you be careful not to show the photographs, otherwise they will be shocked to see. Its all camouflage, but what to do with these fools. We have tried everything you see, beating them with shoes, I mean. We have done everything that’s possible under the Sahaj yoga regime, but, they don’t want to see the point, so best thing is to go straight forward march, is over and going back door thing.
You try with that Arch Bishop of that Canterbury. I saw the bishop in London, the main bishop of London, was sitting next to me. We never talked about God, he was talking about Gold prices, this thing, that thing. But he drank most of the liquor and everything that was there, the wine and all. Poor thing may not be getting you see in the church biggest, this thing what you call that, cigar. He used the biggest cigar and pockets 2-3 of them. (everyone laughs). Its absolute truth I am telling. Then he was wearing the scarlet. See that’s the color suggested, already. Its in the book of revelation. See how they are wearing scarlet. Absolutely, frivolous people and they are misguiding people, so we have to also change our dresses and get them into the fort. We’ll find some people in there. Now, on these lines you start , then, you have a meeting with all these people here. You get the names of all newspapers, this thing that thing. Then, approach them and tell them that we have got first people who have come to us is Sahaj yoga company. They may be thugs, this is what is. But, this is what we found it in Sydney, they did. This is what other papers have done in Geneva , this thing that thing. They can’t say no to you, because you have to give them business later on. I don’t know what sort. Is there any other suggesting?
Sahaj Yogini : Should we approach International bodies like United Nations
Mother : What is it?
Sahaj Yogini : Should we approach International bodies like United Nations
Mother : Do as it (20.00)
Sahaj yogini : like Congressmen.
Mother : No no congress will be America, make it United Nations. Better. Whatever you claim, you are that . You are higher that United Nations and all that put together. What ever you say is not boasting at all. Is it ? it’s not. Whatever I say, it never amounts to boasting. Except that you get lots of vibrations. So, it doesn’t matter whatever you say. Call your UN body will call them.
Sahaj Yogini : I meant mother, should we approach them, should we write to them, talk to them.
Mother : Yes yes why not?
Sahaj Yogini: Find a sponsor.
Shri Mataji: Yes yes, tell him that we are working like United nations only. You immediately become top people; you know. You don’t know? I have known that. What do they have? All idiots. I have seen so many idiots working as great people, ambassadors, big big people, they are just idiots. They have no brains, nothing. I have seen, go to their house. I don’t know how they developed this kind of idiocity. But the other day we went to an ambassador’s place, he started telling me something. (Mother mimics him) What language he is speaking. CP came, he was also watching him, so he asked me in Indian language, do you understand what he is saying? I said not me, I thought something is wrong with me. He said “No”, what knows. (everyone laughs). He said, then I said, why are you laughing then sometimes. He said, I don’t know, I hope I am laughing at the right time. (Everyone laughs).
Then, he was ON and ON for half an hour. He was telling there something. (Mother Mimics him, Sahajyogies laugh) and his laughter was neither crying, nor laughing, sort of an expression, you know. You don’t know what he was going to say. Then, another idiot we saw. Idiots are free idiots. They talk like idiots; they don’t know what they are talking. They are big people, when they give lectures you are so embarrassed, you don’t know where to go. There is no sense, there is no dignity, there is no understanding, nothing. I mean you will find one or two persons in an organization sensible. Rest are all idiots. Top Top ranking. These are days of idiots, I tell you. These are days of idiots. If you are an idiot, then you are at a high position. That must be the case. Because everybody’s afraid of intelligent people. See, no I don’t think, no Prime Minister likes, or no President likes an intelligent man because he might be ousted you see. So there want to have mediocre, you see. But, actually in that competition, they pick up only the idiots and that’s how you find all these problems. You don’t know how to talk to them. You don’t know what to say. Within 5 minutes, you will be amazed, you will be shocked. What’s this. They are holding such a big position; you have to remember all the time. Otherwise, may be your driver is better than them. Perhaps they drink too much, all these parties. They are affected by drinks or may be some of them are supposed to be big educated Cambridge, Oxford, I don’t know what what. All sorts of people. Big-Big positions in. I mean Sahajyogies are also from there. They don’t seem so idiotic, as these people are like from john Hopkin Institute and all that. See I told Gregor about somebody whom I met from the same institute. I said, he is an Idiot, how did you get him there. Can’t’ understand. So, he said there are lots of idiots there mother. Just imagine. I think this must be the reason that all the heads of the countries must be frightened of intelligent people, so they must be selecting only people who are little idiotic and they can find them on the wrong foot you see. And then they can always dissolve them with some weakness and something. Must be that. This must be the reason. Otherwise how can you have such a set of idiots all around. So, this is how we have to manage and I think if you can really form this organization properly and save these people from the disaster into which they are , that is really the work that one has to do, very carefully . All of you should give them some ideas. Even local you go to a smaller place, you will be so excited that “Oh God, such a big organization has come to us. And that’s how you can impress them. You can use my car if you like. Or we can buy a second “Mercedes”, or we can even buy a second hand “Rolls Royce “. We can get it on a hire. Yah, just to ….You should do all this. You know how you should talk and you better study some people, how they talk , how they stop and how long they talk, how they behave, how they impress. You can give some tips after all.
Sahaja Yogi : Are we not falling into trans. All good and Glory.You know Rolce Royce indicates..
Shri Mataji: Not Rolce Royce, lets have something different, Mercedes, but you shouldn’t take say .. aaa. A Jeep there, is it (everyone laughs) something like that. We have to have a sensible car, may not be. Yes Rolce Royce is too much for a Journalist, I think. I will let you judge yourself, something in between. Otherwise, they may think that a false Guru must have given you as a present. Yes, yes he does that. So have something in between which car you think is best, which is journalistic. Which one ? … I don’t like that car very much, its like a horse with two camels back inside. But, see whatever you like. Sir CP knows all these things, so if knows all the correct things to impress. But, that’s a very expensive car.
So, Don’t use cheap cars. Don’t use Rolce Royce, none of us have. Even a second half or fourth hand we don’t have. But, don’t use any car that would look cheapish type. Something good for a journalist. You see association something like that. But, you should be careful about that. Car is important, suit is important. In your gestures and behaviours you see, how smartly you pack things , how you get up, how you lock things and also brief cases you see, very important and umbrellas that you carry, so lets have a training center for that.I am not se good, you can get somebody to train you off.
SahajYogi : like James Bond , mother.
Mother : Who?
Sahaj yogi : the famous star’
Shri Mataji: What did he do?
Sahaj Yogi : He used to dress up mother.
Mother : James , who? Bond
Sahaj Yogi : Its fictional. Double Agent
Shri Mataji: Hhh? Double?
Sahaj Yogi : Double Agent . Secretly
Shri Mataji: Oh I see (and laughs). No but you should not sound queer, you know, you should sound very British. Like James Bond carrying three women around, won’t be successful, you have to be very British. Walk with a (makes a gesture – nose high). I think who can teach us that? David, who else. Study, you its interesting to study. Manners, Mannerism. Little bit to study, how to impress. How to grab, ask your brother how he does it.
Sahaja Yogi: Its just a pose. Its just a pose, really. You know you learn by talking to the person.
Shri Mataji: You see Canadian people are different, English are different. Canadian people can be impressed by the looks, but not English, they can never be. Best is when you go to Uzbekistan , where 40 degrees is the temperature. But, to impress people here. There are norms which we say, they can’t understand Sahajayoga. But, what to do that’s the media, word is good media. We have to move this media. I have taken half of there bhoots by eating chana. Now, you tell me what is to be done on the gross level.
Sahaj yogi : In the first article about you in Australia was in a newspaper called “Sydney shop “which the back section that was for massage parlours and (Mother : I have to go everywhere) of newspaper reporting. However, that article and the advisement of newspaper reporting, not by us, but basically by the number of people from the meeting.
Mother : So lets use that also. Doesn’t matter I’ll have to be everywhere, massage parlor anywhere. But can you too, you land up in a place like this where there’s not of an inch of a holy land, and you want to create a holy land out of it, then what do you do. You have to put your feet in the maya.
Sahaj yogi: We worried a lot about that.
Shri Mataji: No no no, nothing to worry , you see, your mother is pure makes no difference. Doesn’t matter. I have given all freedom to you, do what you like , publish me anywhere you feel like.Like this girl, that Suvarna, somebody tell Sir CP that it was not dignified compared to Mrs Srivastava’s dignity, it was not dignified. See the very dignified and serene lady because in the office, I am extremely dignified. Not with my children, may be I can very simple and so they thought that how could it be and this lady has really taken advantage or some sort of thing you know, they were rather upset about it. So, I said, alright doesn’t matter, its alright whatever way she has seen me , she mut have written. So I was thinking she should do another article again.
Sahaj-Yogi : the biggest response that ever had.
Mother : About me, just imagine. Despite that, I mean though, I mean she made it little, I don’t say it was frivolous but she ,it was flippant. Flippant is the word you see, it didn’t go into the details at all or anything and shared the biggest response. Just imagine. And what did she do about it?
Sahaj-Yogi : She send some letter too.
Mother : I see. So she may like to do it again, in a proper way. This is one side. Another side is if you must have seen an article in a magazine which you were telling me , aaa… Indian magazine, which impressed you very much, Kohli’s. Did you see that one?
Saha-Yogi: No, I didn’t
Shri Mataji: Do you have it here? Naveen?
Sahaj-Yogi: I think some people have copy , mother. But, if we send 47pounds, then they will send 250 copies.
Shri Mataji: Alright, just send him and get it immediately. Alright, now, another thing is his suggestion has come. Yes, may God bless you.
Sahaj-Yogi : I have to go and have lunch with my mother.
Mother : Alright, go and have it . God bless you. Now, with Mr. Kohli, he wanted to publish a book, he said so. This will cost, 15-20 though rupees. It’s not difficult to get it.IN which he wants to write experiences of all the people from my childhood and this and that. That will have no meaning. But, my idea was that you Sahaj-yogies should compile together the experiences of different, Say Bombay experiences Bombay people should do it, Delhi people should do it, Sydney people should do it. The people in England should do it and they should write about each and every person, you see, those who have to write. So those who have to write something about me, should send it to say now from Bombay. Those who are in Bombay should write to somebody in Bombay, those who are in Delhi should write to somebody in Delhi. Who will compile it and put it together and put it in a proper way. Some sort of a , you write to Bombay people, somebody who is of journalistic nature and here also, these must be sent to Gavin or someone, and the same committee , we have you see, should deal with this side, to find out what is proper, what you think is proper, what is to be given and all the fantastic things that you have felt , even officers saying about the petrol business Write it down everything and all these experiences can be compiled, he can put the name as “miracles of our each or something like that. And then he can put it the way he likes. We should say we supply you all the material from here. Or, then he can edit it. Also, we can get it published, if he wants to publish, let him publish it, which ever way he wants to do it. Alright. We can get it very nicely done for him. But, he must publish the book, and the book must be in English. Not Indian English, that’s the main point. But also we should not use very difficult English you see, because it should be Internationally understood. Not very big sentences, complicated, and also loosing idioms from English literature and things, that no one goes into the head. That people are no literatures you see, okay. Most of the people who write are literatures students and they use all the idioms from the literature. Now, those who are not literature students, how are they going to understand it. They try to show off, you see that they have read this book and that. Best thing is to put directly, not any quotations from any literary book. You can use it from Bible if you want. But, that is not necessary if you want to give any experiences. But, just you can see that my hands started speaking to me, then you can say……………39.48……………at this time then. And that book can be done very well and will be sold all over the world. We can send him introduction also, very beautiful introduction to the subject. So, all the Sahajyogies should sit down and write all the good thing. Not like this, that half-hearted and half-baked things you should not have. Like, I am all right, but still I have (everyone laughs…) Buts and Ifs , you should not write. If you have any buts and ifs, you should keep it to yourself. Half baked people should not write anything. This, and, you have missed a very nice point.
Sahaj Yogi : Sorry to hear I missed it, Mother. Sorry to hear I missed it.
Shri Mataji: We could like to see what happened. So that you can see it’s the, may be forming a new organization, called “Golden Age International” for journalistic mischief. (everyone laughs…)
We shouldn’t also laugh when you are thinking them. You should be very serious. Otherwise you will be called as giggly people. Giggly guru is called , you know. Just imagine the new that he used to giggle. Also, in this book, you can write about people, who had a negative approach like a letter to Arch-Bishop Pope. Expose them. Expose all of them, like Uni-teacher, expose them. That’s the time, we can expose them now. The responses, Introduction first and the responses at the end. First give the responses of the gurus who are realized souls, how they have acted, they have done this. And a , Mahesh yogis you can write that, first of all there is nothing like a devil, nothing, no ills, everything is fine. And as soon as he heard the name of mataji Nirmala-Devi, she said, she is the devil. Otherwise, devil did not exist for them.
Sahaj-Yogi : Should we reveal the natural……………42.55………………..
Shri Mataji: yes, Yes why not. You should say, I went to this fellow and this happened and that happened. Just ……42.55……….
Sahaj-Yogi : Do you remember three years ago , you actually revealed and mentioned some of the names of the demons, some of the silly names. Should we reveal those as well? You think?
Mother : I mean, you can say that we had many people one after another, we had series of things you see with us. I think Gavin has got some of these things that this fellow from Denmark had sent. Have you got ?
Sahaj-Yogi : I think Linda may have …43.40………
Mother : why did Linda burn that also? Okay, let us find out. So, you can mention that, those there were so many indications, you see, from people, we could not see. Even this fellow said, this is the mantras meaning, we could not see , you see, somehow our mind was like that. So to prove that there was a kind of a possession, of a kind of a curtain on our head that we couldn’t see things. Though, these were pointed out you see, nobody bothered, because one gentleman who has flouted him, long time back from America. Though, he didn’t understand the subtler side of it, but he gave the gross side, which was really remarkable, that people could get over it. How he made money, how he had to embezzle money for him and how many millions of millions of dollars, they had to give everything , their data himself. Also, he said, if I have mentioned anything wrong, let them prosecute me. But nothing happened. About women, how he had relationship with women and all that, he mentioned it. I don’t know, if those papers re there or not. But, it was so. The name of the fellow, I forgot that. There were so many things like that which were as he says are given to Peter, you see, Peter kept that. But, if you can find that , but there were warnings coming all through, you see anybody who is intelligent can see this, you see and can warn, but nobody listened to it. I mean you all thought that you were doing for a great cause of the hindi world government, imagine. See, he made the whole show such a big , I mean the show was such that you had to believe it. Now, you have been into that “sportinial world”, isn’t it.
Sahaj-Yogi : yes, mother.
Mother : Achcha, now this one also, he has got 50,000 disciples even now, even now. And he calls himself a perfect guru. One of the disciples came to me and told me, he doesn’t know how to say “Perfect”, he says “perphect”. “Perphect” guru, I am a “perphect” guru, repeating that word again and again, and this fellow didn’t know English and he had to translate it and the queen of Spain complain to the ambassador of Spain, the Indian Ambassador of Spain, that it’s a shameful thing that how you can send such a man to our country, he has just finished our young generation , the whole race is lost. Nobody listens you know, that’s the trouble. He is a “perphect guru”, perfectly made them mad, turned their “Agnyas”, they are finished. So the whole book would be , where are the seekers, where have they lost, what has happened to them? Everything can be covered in this , in a very good way, tragedies and the…
Sahaj-Yogi : Mother, some Christian has published a book called “ Tiam and Cosmic Confidence Trail” and someone read a review as he used to be Christian and I think that’s probably going into next Nirmala Yoga has resented, and I also got some of the world’s translators , I asked Gavin, so that’s going in as well.
Shri Mataji: What’s the name of the book?
Sahaj-Yogi : “Tiam and Cosmic Confidence Trail “. It’s part of one these Christian book sellers. This couldn’t do it. Lots of insights into about the …………47:53………..
Mother : And who is the writer?
Sahaj-Yogi : I can’t remember mother ; I have got the details at home.
Mother : So, here it comes. Anybody who finds anything like that in writing, please get it . In waves, you see also you can find out. Like we can say that, they say about “Theta” waves and “theta” waves, you only get it from epileptic patient. Very carefully, without involving people who are dangerous to us, but gurus you can handle. Gurus are alright, there is no harm, because you can use this fellows name and all that, but not people like say, we can say the like say some Prime Minister as if God with TMC, for example, you need not bring his name, they may not like it, because they wont like it and they will try to trouble us, so such people be careful on those. The president before this was , what was he, he was a “Baptist Church”, somebody was president of the Baptist church of America. Carter. Also these churches you see, you can point out, like one person can say, like you can talk about these , aa, painting costs, no I am asking you.
SY : There is a International, there is an organization called “Family, Action, Information and Rescue”, already formed and its been run by MP called Paul Rose, and he commits service in …50.12.. and he has formed this organization and it has been effective.
Mother : Then, what do they do?
SY: If they , anyone’s been affected , then they get the people out.
Mother : You can ask them, you can go and ask what do they have to say about the Samarthan then interview them . Also, you can use that information, you can that also
SY : That’s very good Mother, there’s lots of information that started specifically because of a……50.49….for children of God, and that’s very much like mooning that they used to teenagers and young people and keep them totally out of contact with the outside world and keep them cuddled from their parents and all this starvation drive and some sugarizing . So all these techniques they use. So, I was told to help the parents who lost their teenagers and young adult children to get them back in the program and get the brain washing out of them. And they got lots of useful information.
Mother : then go and see them also , you see as an organization you can go and see them.
SY : Overall he is very obsessive mother, he is very skeptical mother, very skeptical.
Mother : You see, but they can be quite confused I tell you, like this fellow I went to see John will tell you. I told him all against these so called religions , and ultimately he told John that we cannot have her interview at length, because people don’t like to hear about religions. Can you imagine? Is he here John?
SY : No mother, He left some notes. I’ll read on behalf of him, Mother
Shri Mataji: Alright, read what he has to say.
SY : He said that you had that interview with “London Broadcasting” with Lord Spicer and he interviewed mother, solely because Sahaja-Yogies wrote letter to Mr. Spicer, out of interest from his previous interview so we can easily build up on what we have already done on this kind of thing. If a lot of sahaja yogis show interest
Mother : But, not only Sahaja Yogies, but you have to put non Sahaja Yogis. See, they didn’t write at Sahaja Yogies all of them.
SY : no no
Mother : So we should not say that sahaja yogis wrote, we should say that there was a begim, because he asked him that he should come and deal with a people.
Mother : Hmm, between us in the secret department. Alright.
SY: The 15 minutes interview.
Mother : Now you can also write to Arnold, Arnold, that she has a lot of a response. You can mention her. Alright.
SY : Ah, the 15 minutes interview by Lords Sparta went out two Sundays ago at 4 am on the radio.
Shri Mataji: 4am, 4 am ?
SY : We had one man come hearing that, he heard at 4 am.
Mother : She got up at 4 am . They must have thought that Sahaja-Yogis are supposed to get up at 4am.( everyone laughs)
SY : Also, Lord Spicer recorded an interview between John Flower, a West Indian Christian “Grant”. This interview we broadcasted in September is mainly concerned with our attitude towards Jesus and the Ten commandments. “ Grant” was not negative in fact he thought Sahaja-Yoga sounded good, because we follow the living Christ and obey the commandments. But, because his vibrations were tricky, he seemed best to be diplomatic and not confront his ego. The result of this diplomacy , may be to make Sahaja-yoga sound Christian.
Mother : Better call it Christian, Hindu, Muslim, doesn’t matter.
SY : That’s what he did and the other thing, we wrote a letter to US Nepal, who wrote various articles and books. One article , he said that we are certain that he has found the truth and wanted a professional objective in the descending journalist to investigate our claims and dissatisfied with our authenticity , write an article, we are yet to hear a reply.
Mother : No, he wont work out with you, but with this organization he will.
SY: And John did suggest few things as well on the basis of his experience . So, my personal letters to people that are important, so it would be better as an organization
Mother : No, right organization. To all important people, better right important letters.
SY : We should have our letter head mother.
Mother : We have to have all that.
SY : Make our own TV video film with our own funding
Mother : Hhh?
SY : TV video film, to show producers
Mother : Not like this. They wont allow me 5 minutes there, and will they allow the film?
SY : No, it didn’t necessarily mean , like what we watch . Perhaps the sahaja-yogies doing the same thing as you suggested.
Mother : No let it be done by the organization. You see, that thing can be done by this organization. And they can show, the root points. Let them do it. You have to contact. But not just now. You should not sound like you are sahaja-yogis. You can take help of other gurus also. Under the circumstances, you cant go and see “harey ramas”.Alright, under this and you ask them questions. I’ll give you the proper things, what to ask them.
SY : Can we take a video to the meeting? And ask them questions.
Mother : yes, ask them questions. First of all, you have to be very nicely get versed in Geetha (everyone laughs). Then, with other rules goes you should be prepared. And with this organization you should be prepared. Take their video and give these to him people, that these are what we are going to supply to you.
SY : Can we include you? Can we include some class of you.
Mother : No no no, I am no where. You are just talking to people in a neutral way to the people from Harey rama harey Krishna. Alright. And I’ll tell you the loopholes , then you ask the questions on them. Like thiam people, but the people who have done thiam should not do. But others who look very innocent should go. Because if you go with thiam ideas, then they know that you are from thiam and you are the revolty persons. Better keep out. All this will think of many such things now. You see I have put you out to the other line. What else now? Come along.
SY: Aaa, well he said that we should get a press kit of the articles, photos, case history, tapes, what you saying mother and take it to newspapers , to impact of the organization..
Shri Mataji: No this book should come out.
SY : Also, he intended to get in contact with Malcom Margerage , and go and talk to him in just two interested people.
Mother : Aaa?? Who is he
SY : Malcom Margerage. He is a literally critic of Christian . A well known person.
Mother : he do what now?
SY : He does commenting on religion and philosophy , Malcom Margerage.
Mother : Meet him first of all. Give him treatment, Sahaja-Yoga treatment, then, we’ll see how far he goes.
Sy: Or we could watch him as members of disinterested..
Mother : with this organization, because then you are neutral. You cannot skim, this is Roman Catholic has done this and that. See I will give you everybody’s loopholes. So, let us prepare some courses on this. Should we?
SY: Yes, and lastly, he asked Mr. Cantubry , he was quite , named it himself he did get in contact with the advisor of Indian affairs.
Mother : So what did the advisor do?
SY: He said, he wants to see us and talk to us, aa.., whose friend he says has written a translation of some Indian and also a bishop in Haywood, is also interested in talking to us.
Mother : Sahaj-Yoga is advanced Christianity, advanced Judaism , advanced everything. The point where everything meets, that’s what Sahaj-yoga is. But you must know where they have gone wrong. Otherwise, they will never advance. So that’s all.
SY: Also we would see the programmers, the programmers, people who dealt with pre-programming
Mother : How do you do that?
SY: You say that, if anyone has messed up with a Guru then they have an organization, what they have in America. You call it deep programmers. So, if anyone has messed up with a Guru, then, they go to the Police or Social Workers. They put you onto you and then you talk to the person who is affected, and then you make them better and then you go to his parents. It takes too long.
Mother : You see, you must get this organization, also this one, the same organization.
SY : Mother, instead of “Center for Sahaja-Yoga”, should we have “Center for International Comparative Religions”, or something. And it looks.
Mother : Whatever you like.
SY : We can put them in circle of people, because we can easily invite people here
Mother : You see in this world, whatever you say has two sides, except for Sahaja-Yogis. You see, everything has two sides. Like if you say this is a place for people to understand religions and their mistakes, whatever it is. All the religious people will be standing against me.
SY : Mother, the aim would be , in it, to Ah..the people will be the members of “Golden Age International”. They would indicate to the people, they were in contact with, that they were employed by the Sahaja-Yoga for that purpose.
Mother : That’s what I think, you should keep it out.
SY : So, they would know like..
Mother : Connection should not be there. What you can do is, to get some people you see. If they come to you , to your organization. You should say that you see, some people have told us that Sahaja-Yoga has helped. You can try . But, we are not recommending. But, if you want, you can try, like that.
SY : Mother, if people will ask what are the credentials of “Golden Age International”, and if we can’t say that we are Sahaja-Yogis. What are we to say to the people of our credentials?
Mother : No, our credentials are that we are FROGs and PIGs and all that , are the real credentials, not Sahaja-Yogis.
SY : We just go together as a Group.
Mother : You see , you are not to say that it is an organization of Sahaja-Yogis at all. Even, they won’t ask you that you are Sahaja-Yogis. They will never , believe me. You see, that’s why we have has no dress, badging, no nothing. We are so different (Mother Laughs) that’s why I have never allowed. Many people used to say let us wear Kurta – Pajamas. Even the mark, you are not to have anything. That’s only secretly, till we reach a certain stage, you see. So you don’t have to say, you are Sahaja-Yogis. Credentials are Dr…., then Barristers, then this that. Also, you can add the PIGs and all these things to it. Doesn’t matter. (Everyone laughs). This is what they respect, not Sahaja-Yogis. You see, Sahaja-Yogis mean, they must be some criminals, you see. They cannot think, that Sahaja-Yogis are some good people. They cannot think of such people who can be good. Really , they can’t think
SY: It is true tough, mother, that when we talk to people with full confidence in ourselves, without displaying a thing, who are prone to have a seeking lives, if they are seekers, probably. They always never fail to be impressed, with the depth of knowledge that Sahaja-Yogis have got and this itself stands out that think to ask, where have you got your credentials from.
Mother : You see, when a Sahaj-Yogi speaks even a little girl, like, Anupama, people are amazed, how does she talk all this. Every sentence that you speak has that sparkle, they won’t know, you need not say. If there is a beautiful rose, somewhere hidden you know, because it smells. You know the fragrance is there. They will know , because it is something great. You need not say you are Sahaj-Yogis by saying that we have achieved nothing with these horrible media. So let us go in another way. You see, if you talk of the flower, nothing works out. You talk of fragrance. By flower, they are not impressed, so better let them have your fragrance. (Mother looks are a baby and says) This is another one, who can impress, quite a lot.
SY : Mother, could we have part of the organization something, for search into the nuclear aspect. How to
Mother : You see, when you are International, then go into everything, no problem. But, you see peace cannot come from without. Peace has to come from within. See, if you don’t have nuclear weapons, you will have some other things. Now, Americans are , look at them, they are selling their weapons to all other countries at a very cheap rate, you see. What is this. This is even worse than having atomic bomb, because Atomic bombs, once for all finish everyone . You see, but this is very bad to make everybody fight. They have ways and methods. You can’t just say. It’s a temperament , it’s an attitude. It’s inner subtle , which is not at peace. They are violent, because they don’t have any peace within. Actually, they enjoy this. They enjoy all this.
SY : How to deal with people, to our connections with them. They come to see Sahaja-Yoga, they see us, as the speakers. They have seen as the representatives of “Golden Age International” , then they see us a person who is doing Sahaja-Yoga. How we should deal with that situation?
Mother : You should get people from outside . You see, for example, you can go to Toronto and let the Toronto people have in New York. It’s better. For example, Brian can say I have come from Sydney all the way and we have done so much there in Sydney. So much of , we have found out this and all that, now who’s going to find out about it. Alright, so in New York you work for Sahaja-Yoga, in Toronto, you work for this.
SY : What are we to do , if we …
Mother : What’s that, what did he say.
SY : Mike was saying, what happens if we get Legitimate Clients?
Mother : Legitimate Clients.
SY: Clients, willing to pay money, for the work we would be doing
Another SY : Because we are International.
Mother : You see, you have only one client that is Sahaja-Yoga. They don’t pay any money. Nobody will be our client as such, how can there be? except for these Gurus, because we’ll talk against them, they will never pay us anything. I don’t think, this question will arise.
SY : No, I mean regular business clients.
Mother : Business clients.
SY: The ones that are involved in seeking.
Shri Mataji: In this relationship you are saying . You see what will happen? We’ll have let’s see. We will either go to these Gurus. Alright, they will come, as we are giving alternative. Because when you will go and see them alright , we will give you a publicity and this thing , that thing. But we will tell the truth, you see. You should tell them you see, we are here, but we’ll tell the truth, because that’s what we have written in our this thing that we’ll try to see the truth here. You see, so they would like to have you there, because you will have a sort of a position to tell the truth, you see. So, you can go there as any journalist goes, and he can see whatever he likes, they cannot stop him . So you go ahead and see the flaws of that thing and then you can write about them and tell about them in newspapers. This is what we have seen. So, they won’t pay you. I mean if they pay , of course. I don’t think, they will pay you for telling all these things, but even if they pay . You can tell them , that ours is a voluntary organization, and we are doing this voluntary work and like that, or you can take the money , we can throw it in the temps.
SY: If somebody comes and our publicity campaign is not soap.
Mother : Soap, what is Soap?
SY : Well, a public relations firm, as well as selling something like Sahaj-yoga could also sell cheap soap or sugar or lemon.
Mother : We won’t have any magazine or anything
SY: But in the same way that the members of the organization could go to the media and try to interest them in publishing material about Sahaja-yoga, that , facility could also be used for other money making concerns, like a soap making firm could come to that “Golden Age International” to employ that organization, to give cheap soap quality image or , you see there is a possibility of an honest business, and not dishonest . This is what Michael has pointed .
Mother : Oh
SY : It could in another way, it could be the possibility of some members of the organization directly involved and financially involved.
Mother : No No, no no
SY : It’s just alternative Lifestyle
Mother : You see, what I am saying , these things again take you to the same. It’s a dangerous play. See, you can play out certain things, you see , like ah…something like we can say like, we can have a , I don’t know how you can work out, but, we can get some Sahaja-Yogis to say that , this special type of sugar , this vibrated sugar , you see . You can refer to some organization and say that this sugar is available from this day. Or say genuine things like genuine food or something . I mean more on the genuineness , if you can workout, say soaps are mainly made out of horrible chemicals. If you can get something genuine, you see. On that could be done later on, whichever is genuine thing. But, we have to test it for ourselves. Things like that , we can workout if you go to them. But, should be genuine stuff which is helpful, otherwise we cannot go on for anything cheap type thing, like for Liver patients, we can say we have a medicine or something . Alright?
SY : Mother, I used to be an illustrator. My work was in psychology today and so forth. And I have been wanting to use my artwork in some way. And I know it has a potential to be beautiful, if I was working for a good cause such as Sahaja-Yoga, and not just my own feelings. Is there anyway that I can help, that I can
Shri Mataji: Yes yes, we’ll make full use of you. I am going to use all of you for this. I am already using you. Alright? You have to find out all kinds of talents in these kinds of work , you see. But, now for example, David is too honest of a fellow, I must say (and laughs), he may give in our secrets . I hope David you have changed a little bit. You are too straightforward. You cannot be with them. You see, I have to play a Drama. You have to be an artist to play that Drama, you see. I am myself hopelessly bad, so I am out of it, you see. I just can’t do it. I will just laugh you know, so don’t take me . But, you have to be careful. If you give in the secrets, then we are out you see. Take few but those who can keep the secret all right. At least when you are representing outside, you have to be very careful. Sort of , you see all the Sahaja-Yogis know each other, immediately, they will say “Agnya”, all of them, you see, and they start giving the bandhan as a habit, you see immediately, they find out that these are some kind of charmers . Anybody like , and little, you have to use little cunningness, I should say , with these horrible cunning people, you have to be very careful. If you start giving out your secrets by any methods. And its Phill is very over-honest fellow, you see. So, you shouldn’t try to be over-honest. If you are over-honest , then, they will find you out. In no time they will know that this is the one. You have to little bit, do some practice in Drama. Have you ever taken part in a play ?
SY : I was Julius Caesar; I played the part. (everyone laughs)
Mother : You were what? (everyone laughs)
SY : He played the part of Julius Caesar , Mother , so he gets to quiver very much (everyone laughs)
Mother : What about you ? David, Did you?
SY : That was in Primary school mother
Mother : You better practice Drama, you see, that’s a good idea. All those who suffered from over-honesty, you see, because of conscious and all that , we are beyond all that and we have to save this world. It’s a tremendous task. You can’t go on playing with all these , ah…few bits of things that we have. We have to have the major thing now. We have to do something about it. (Mother kisses the baby ) Look at the eyes. She wouldn’t come. Where has Olympia gone?
SY : I don’t know, she’s playing with children outside . She is playing outside.
Mother : Oh, I see . Take, try. She doesn’t know you, who are you. No (kisses the baby again), Alright . Sit nicely . Hm… Good. But, you have wet yourself, do you know that? (kisses the baby again) Hello. She has got her hair, like her mother . Always comb the hair of the children backwards, you see, so they grow more. Don’t like it, Alright Sorry sorry (Baby Cries)What happened? That means, on Sahasrara she has a problem. Do you use comb or brush.
SY: No Mother
Shri Mataji: You should use some brush. Give me the brush for vibration. That’s how you discover. You must use brush for children, very important it is.
SY: Mother, there is a popular area of Television, which is the so called “ in-Depth look at some topic”. For instance , a program, an half hour program on health. On such a television program, would you be willing for instance, to talk on aspects of health, in a program which would contain so called medical experts who would impact a tip to refute the things that you were saying ?
Mother : Later stage we can . Just now you shoot a camouflage, you see , if you put me there, all Sahaja-Yoga there. All everything there, then , they will be shocked. First you have other people you see, build them up. Bring other Gurus, put them , like that, the way you did it, in Australia. Later on I can be there, But, first you prepare the ground, then, I would like to do anything . Any other Suggestions?
SY: Mother, would it be advisable to think , if the doctors in our group, approach people like arthritis research foundation .
Shri Mataji: We tried that
SY : We have a reason, it’s quite successful in arthritis patients
Shri Mataji: We have tried that. You see what we did, our doctor Shri-Vardhana , he was there on the cancer research. And he wanted to talk about it. He is doing that, and he wanted to tell it to other people and nobody was willing to listen and they thought he was gone mad. Its not easy. He was there, he was doing that research. Newin knows about him. He was doing research in cancer. When, he went and told them that this is possible , they said, no no this is all mad, how can that be? Because they cannot believe there is something higher source from where you get all this. You see, they all think in there ego behavior that this is all their own achievements. They do not want to believe it , because there existence will be Zero. You see, they asked me in India, that if I make this institute for research we get a big donation for the government. But, I said, what is there to be research. I have researched everything. I know everything, what is there to be researched in Sahaja-Yoga? What are we going to do with the donation that time. There was no land, nothing, but, even then, you see, they want you to research and an organization is for research , if you say there is a solution, then, the organization does not exist. You just see how did they do psychologically or they are not really doing it actually to find out something. They are doing it because they have to test.
SY : A lot of programs are attacking different gurus , but they have got a solution . Will it not be a good idea, if we were to make such a program. Again without offering the solutions, but, really opening up the loopholes.
Shri Mataji: How will you open up the programs Newin. You already have programs. Now, where can you do these programs. That would be on the contrary you go and talk to them as a neutral body. Alright? You tell them alright, we would like to study, we would like to, this is one of the alternatives, we agree , but after all we are journalists, we have to witness the whole thing. Alright , you go and see, and see there loopholes and you put them open. They have done it . They have exposed all the Gurus like this in Australia. That’s very simple.
SY : In this way, we can , to break the ground, for people to stop thinking for themselves , and then , Sahaj-Yoga is there, but, we don’t present Sahaja-Yoga
Mother : No no, first you do this, then you present Sahaja-Yoga also. Also, criticize it in a way, which is not really criticism , but , a creditable thing, you see. What did you criticize Sahaja-Yoga for? What did you say?
SY : Ah.. Aaaa.. related to some of the practices like foot-soaking and time absorbing, very time consuming. Lot of people give lot of time to it.
Mother : Otherwise, what are you going to do to the time. You go to pubs, is it time absorbing or not? You see, what I am saying that if anybody wants to refute it, its very good , we really want, otherwise you are bored-stiff you see. So, what you can say, say for example, if you want to criticize sahaja-yoga , let me see….I get thoughlesss (and laughs).
SY : We are sucking up all your enjoyment.
Mother : That , you can’t see from the face. You can say one thing, that there are some people who still are not …..aaa……. anywhere near a good person, or something like that, you can say that. But, some of them, look excellent, many of them look excellent. So, may be there is an inner circle, some sort of a doubt you see, and everything is not told, like that, you can put it, you see. You see, something to say that there is something secretive about these people you see. Everything is not told, first , perhaps. He said, that all knowledge will be told to you, but partly , is know, and everything, everyone doesn’t know. That’s what we gathered from some other people who were saying that we are not allowed to certain functions, or something like that. So you see, a class-consciousness is there, or something. That will help some socialists to raise their ears. Or,
SY : I have somebody say something , we could even turn to good-effect . it sounds like a criticism. Somebody once said that we seem to be privileged , we don’t take everybody, the poor, the sick, the week, the mad , the stupid. We don’t take all of them, we don’t
Shri Mataji: Yes, none of them were , none of them were here of that kind. That , there were no alcoholics among them. Nobody taking drugs and nobody was smoking, nobody had a match box.
SY : Except for lighting candles. Except for lighting candles.
Mother : A…, lighting candles. That also in the , may be here. For lighting the candle , none of them had a matchbox. Put like that. Aa, yah,
SY : It’s a Christian thing. To be a Christian, to be following Christ. We have to take like Mother Teressa , dying and sick people,
Mother : But you see , but when I asked somebody, he told me that he came to this place when he was dying , later on. See this is the first criticism, then we refute. And somebody can go and say, I was first dying, when mother saved me ,so I do perfectly alright. You see that is the second stage. I mean, you should give them the photographs of when you came. (Mother laughs) . Before and After.
SY : Mother, may I ask, how we should present the evening classes? We were originally going to give realization immediately, but I am wondering from our discussion this morning, whether it might not be too much for them.
Mother : Ya, they don’t deserve it.
SY : They are coming for education.
Mother : First you must educate them, what they should expect. First you have to tell them, what they should expect, from realization.
SY : Should we have your photograph there?
Mother : No, no, no, you can cover it with a paper or something, with the silk cloth if you cover, the vibrations will flow in anything. You need not.
SY: And shall we give realization anytime?
Mother : Aa… Yes afterwards, you should.
SY : It goes for 26 weeks. (everyone laughs)
Mother : Twennnty-Six weeksss?
SY : Friday evening, for 2 hours
Shri Mataji: What will you do?
SY : Oh, there’s plenty mother, there’s plenty
SY: We got 24 topics mother , it’s the barest of discussing Sahaja-Yoga
Mother : Then, 25th, you will give them realization ?
SY : Or the 26th
Mother : But, without realization, how will you make them understand?
SY: Well, this was what we wondered and that’s why our first impulse was to give realization.
Shri Mataji: No, you can say , after say half time, you can say, that let’s try , we can work-out on you.
SY: Shall we also invite them for our public meeting in Brazil?
Mother : Yah, public meetings, they are always invited. But you have public meeting, every week?
SY: Yes mother, every week, every Tuesday
Shri Mataji: That , this course is from people who are coming from public meeting or .
SY : No no, no. Hopefully not, hopefully it will be people who are interested in alternatives to education , like, comparative religions and astrology
SY: Mother, the idea arose, because TA was doing the introduction classes, in the same night school and it occurred to us . We can do better. See, we will, because lot of people were very displeased with TM. Last they thought , it was an absolute rip-off ,
Shri Mataji: But, what you can do is to talk to them, that you see this is the things, this Kundalini is here , this thing that thing. But, a mantra, until and unless it is awakened , by a realized soul, you cannot use it. The mantra, at this stage , it has to awaken this deity. Like that you can tell them to prepare it. But, it is to be awakened, and this should happen to a person, and if it happens. And, then, if it happens . I mean, when will we have the public meeting?
SY: Public meetings on Tuesday, every Tuesday.
Shri Mataji: So, what do you do there?
SY: Aa… We have your talk or tape , and then we give realization.
Mother : How do you say , these people won’t come to the public meetings?
SY : What mother?
Mother : These people won’t come to the public meetings?
SY : Aa.. Primarily what will happen with the evening classes, is that the persons will go round to library and also to …
Mother : But, how will you stop them from coming to the public meetings?
SY : Well, I wasn’t suggesting that we stop them mother
Shri Mataji: Then, what will you do?
SY : What I was thinking, was how we justify, Aa.. because they would be paying for the evening classes. That was the point. We offer our services and lectures as free. But, the other education institute will charge people who come on the course, for their hall, their lighting, their heating. If we can say to them, that the public meetings are more for in-depth actual working class and learning how to
Shri Mataji: How many people come to the public meetings ?
SY: Twenty Mother, 20 – 25
Mother : And how many will be coming for your course?
SY: We don’t know, we don’t know yet.
SY: Possibly more, if we make it look really interesting.
Shri Mataji: Now, the public meeting, of this 20 people, is always 20, is it? They don’t increase
SY: We can say typically, 2 to 3 to 4 new people a week.
Shri Mataji: So, let us not have it as a public meeting there. You advertise everytime.
SY : We have advertise mother, which says every week at this particular hotel, that public meeting, an introductory meeting.
Mother : You see, I would say , this one you will start at the Ashram, is it?
SY: No, mother, it’s Aa.. it’s the other education institute. Ya, so it won’t be .
Mother : Alright, So why do you have any public meeting, at all? Why, I am saying is for 26 people, if they have a big response . What you can do is to have them in the Ashram and need not advertise. Let’s see , if that works better. If only 2-3 people are coming every week, you see. Supposing, they get 50 people for this, kind of a training center.