Public Program Day 3, Seekers of Joy

Auditorium RAI del Foro Italico, Rome (Italy)

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Third Public Program, “Seekers of Joy”. Rome (Italy), 10 September 1983.

I bow to all the seekers of joy. I’ve had many, many questions from the last lecture. And gradually in my own lecture you will find, I have tried to answer some of them. But only possible to divert all my today’s lecture on those, because I want to tell you about the spirit. It seems there is someone who is a learned man about Indian philosophy and I was happy to know that he has also studied that. Because all that is not so known to the western world, I didn’t want to bring it in.

[Aside: Will you please sit down in your place and don’t disturb everyone – this gentleman I don’t know why he wants to disturb. Why don’t you go? Yesterday he was misbehaving also for nothing at all.]

This gentleman has asked a question about spandakarika – is a word which is used for Kundalini which creates the spanda. Spanda is the pulsation. Whether this is the same? Yes, it is absolutely the same, but it is not any ism, like what you called as shaibaism.

In the sixth century we had a very great saint in India or you can call him a incarnation or a great master, called Adi Shankaracharya – who has very clearly said that Kundalini has to be awakened Sahaja. He wrote many treaties like Viveka Churamani and all those. And then he got fed-up with the intellectuals. And he got so fed-up, he wrote his last book as Soundrya Lahari. And in this he describes that the Mother’s powers, the power of the Primordial Mother, the Holy Ghost, the Adi-Shakti. And just he has sung the praises of the Mother. And people said that, “Why are you wasting your intelligence in this?” So he said, “All these thinking and reading has made human beings absolutely mad.” Because too much reading, thinking creates dogmas. And once you start reading too much about something, you just form your own ideas. And by that you really become a stupid person, in the sense that you start forming “isms”. But He has clearly said the “‘Yogen, Sankhena’– by all these philosophies you are not going to get there. It is the Mother’s grace that is going to work it out.”

So those who have read a lot about philosophy, any philosophy, must know by reading you do not reach there. For example we were coming from Tivoli and we saw a sign to Rome. And if we had stuck up there and at the sign only saying, “This what is written in and start reading it,” we would have never reached Rome.

Like another great personality in India, Guru Nanaka. He says that, “Unless and until you know yourself, unless and until there is self knowledge – your confusion cannot disappear”. But those who follow Guru Nanak, go on reading the book that He has described of the poems of realized souls, to read. They go on saying that, “Unless and until you know yourself, you can not get out of the confusion,” they go on remembering it by heart, saying for hours together, like this. But this is not the way, because if somebody gives you a prescription saying that, “You should take this medicine”, and if you just go on remembering, “I should take this medicine. I should take this medicine,” how will you treat yourself? So by reading too much you condition yourself and form an ism. And you get identified with that knowledge. And once you are identified with that knowledge, so-called, you do not get to the point what is described.

So by reading at the most you can get the idea or a logical conclusion you might arrive at: what to do; how to achieve; what to expect. Like Christ had said, “You are to be born again.” So in the church we get up and say, “All right, let us sing the hymn, a number so and so. We have to be born again.” And we go on singing this song again and again. Then we start believing that we are already born again. In Geneva I met some people who came themselves, called themselves born again and they brought a Bible to hit me. So this kind of development that is within us must be seen and faced if you are a true seeker.

There were many other questions about Me also. Whether I was a spiritual master or I am an Avatara or who was My guru, all sorts of things. I would say, you better find out yourself. Christ said that, “I am the path. I am the light,” which He was. So people crucified Him. So it is wise not to say anything about yourself in these days, because the ego is so developed in human beings that they don’t see that they are the losers. Anyone who pampers their ego, is a very great man. But anyone who makes them the Self, the Spirit, is not liked so much. In all the countries, in the whole world you will find all the people who propounded truth were tortured completely. Nobody wanted to listen to them. This is the problem. When they die then we build up big organizations in their name but when they live, we never listen to them. So now it is time that we should seek our spirit, and the reality. That is very important.
Now today I have decided to speak of the reality. The reality is that you are the spirit. The rest is a myth. Shankaracharya called it as Adyavtya. He says that, “The Brahma is the only truth. The rest is all myth.” Like Christ has said that, “Seek your eternal life.” So this all-pervading power of God, which is a subtle power, is the only truth. And the spirit is the only way we can know it.

Now what is the spirit? The nature of spirit is three-fold. When our Kundalini is awakened and we cross through this fontanel bone area, it touches the seat of the spirit. But the spirit resides in your heart. As soon as it touches the seat, you start feeling a cool breeze from your head. One gentleman today came and told me that he saw one Sahaja Yogi emitting silver thread-like lights from his head. And I told him that is nothing to be afraid of. But if you are not normal, your prism-like perception starts seeing it, either as a gold color or as silver color. If you are a left-sided person, you see a silverfish light. If you are a right-sided person then you see a golden color. But if you are in the center you don’t see anything, because when you are there, you don’t see anything.
So the spirit when it manifests itself within us, it first enlightens our attention. That means it makes our attention collectively conscious. It makes it. It actualizes. You become collectively conscious. Like we say that we are very great friends, but as soon as there is a quarrel we drop out our friendship. But when you are collectively conscious you start feeling another person on your fingertips. This is what Mohammed Sahib has said that, “At the time of resurrection your hands will speak.” He has written so much about resurrection, but no one wants to talk about it. All of them are talking about the dooms day to frighten everyone, so that they can take full advantage of that fright and dominate with intimidation.

So one has to understand that when you become collectively conscious you start feeling another person on your fingertips. Even sitting down here you can find out about someone, what’s wrong with that person. So the messages come on your fingertips. Your fingertips have got all the sympathetic nervous system endings. For example, a person who is overactive, thinks too much and he is a futuristic, you will find his right hand side might start shaking or may, you might get warm from that person.

Such a person can suffer from liver, from diabetes, from all diseases which are caused by futuristic life. Such a person gets a very active heart and such a person can die of heart attack also. Then on the left hand side, a person who is a lethargic person and always worries about his past and is in a very unhappy mood, gets a heart called “lethargic heart”. Now such a person if you feel about his vibration, you will have a left hand absolutely not giving vibrations or may be there is some sort of a burning or could be some numbness on the hand. If the heart is catching of someone, you get a burning sensation on this finger here, left heart. There are many other causes which bring forth this heart trouble. You don’t have to go to a laboratory to find out, to diagnose a person. By fingertips only you can find out what’s the problem of the patient is.
It is very surprising that Sahaja Yoga has been predicted about fourteen thousand years back by the greatest originator of Indian horoscope method, called Vrigumuni. And about 300 years back a gentleman called Vagandar who tried to bring it up-to-date, predicted that according to this Nadi Granth, this should start in 1970. And we started Sahaja Yoga in 1970. But the most interesting thing he has said that if people take to Sahaja Yoga, there will be no need to have any hospitals or any doctors. Kundalini is not a new name, for Indians. And it has been described in the same prediction that the Kundalini will raise spontaneously, Sahaja.

There are many people who have predicted about this happening, specially a great seer called William Blake from England, about hundred years back. He has been extremely precise. He even said about the house where the first ashram will start, the exact place. Even My houses, two houses, He described exactly, exact spots. He calls the seekers as “men of God”. And He says, “Men of God will become prophets and these prophets will have power to make others prophets”. That is exactly what is happening now. Those Sahaja Yogis who have got realization, can make others realized and can make prophets. And that is how Sahaja Yoga is spreading so fast all over the world in a proper way.

But not like a fake Guru where you have to make plastic. It is very easy to make plastic flowers. But if you have to have a real flower, it has to become. So in Sahaja Yoga you have to become. If you are very well read, if you are a very rich man, you may be a powerful person, makes no difference. Like this man who came like a lunatic, believes that he has got the key to finish all the problems. So whatever funny conceptions you may have, is the main thing, is what do you become, is the point in Sahaja Yoga. We have to become collectively conscious. You cannot have a certificate. You cannot have an organization. You can not say that, “I am a realized soul”. But it is the growth in you that has taken place that you have ascended to be the spirit, is the becoming that is important.
So Sahaja Yoga is not meant for people who are shallow by nature, or not meant for people who are not deep enough to seek. It’s a special category of people who are seekers. They are the only ones who can really become Sahaja Yogis. You cannot force it. You cannot pay for it. It’s a living process of the living God of the living evolution. Like a seed which is good, if you put it in the Mother Earth, it sprouts by itself. A person supposing gets cured through Sahaja Yoga, he thanks Me for that. So I tell him that, “I have not cured you.” Because if you are part and parcel of Me, say this is my finger is sick, and if I rub it and cure it, will I thank these hands? If you are not the other, how can you thank Me? You are part and parcel of Me. But this is not only talking. It is there in the central nervous system.
So your attention when enlightened by spirit becomes collectively conscious. Then you find that your own understanding about life starts changing into new understanding. You find completely integrated within yourself and watch the whole thing as a drama. You become a witness of the whole behavior. It happens to you.

Now a question was asked whether you become an ascetic or you become detached. Now there is a confusion on this, very much. You think the one who wears a dress like a saint or an ascetic and who gives up his wife, family and runs away in the Himalayas, a ascetic, he is not. Because if goes and builds there a compound for himself with lock and key, then he is not an ascetic. He is ascetic from outside. But you become ascetic from inside. You are not attached to anything. Everything is there but you don’t get attached. I will tell you a story of Raja Janaka who was a great king in India. He was called as Bidehi – means an ascetic. And He was a king and whenever He went to any Ashram the saints used to get up and touch His feet. So one disciple of a guru got very angry ─ his name was Nachiketa ─ and he said, “How can you all touch His feet when He is a king and enjoying the life like a king, living like a king, wearing a crown? How can you touch His feet?” So the guru said that. “He is the primordial master.” To Him it does not matter whether He lives in a palace or on the street. So this Nachiketa went to Him to see. And he was very bold and he told him that, “How can you call yourself a king and also an ascetic, allow people to call you an ascetic?” So He told that, “All right, tomorrow we will go to the bath together in a river.” And He told him now you go into meditation. I am going into meditation. So the people came and told that, “Your palace is on fire.” Still He was meditating. Then they said that, “All your things are being burnt. Your children and families are running away.” Still He was meditating. Then they came and shouted, “Now the fire is coming here and all your clothes will be burnt.” So Nachiketa ran out of the water to catch hold of his clothes and to look after it. But He was still meditating. After sometime He came out and Nachiketa said, “Aren’t you worried about your palace being burnt, everything being burnt?” So He said that, “When you live in the realm of divine power, the Brahma, that looks after you.”

After realization you start feeling the blessings of the Brahma Shakti of that all-pervading power which is called as Ritamvara Pragnya by the Patanjali Yoga-Shastra. So this is what you have to feel the blessings. It has many folds. But you can see as I told you the other day, how our Ricardo [She may mean Eduardo, because in the program two days before She mentioned Eduardo, ndt] came only a year back and has become such a learned man today. So how suddenly a person becomes so much knowledgeable. Because the second nature of the Spirit is Truth. Truth is absolute. There is no compromise into, there can not be any. Supposing you want to find out about someone, who is a true guru or a fake guru. If he is a true guru, you start getting a cool vibration in your hand. If he is fake, you may not get vibrations at all. And if he is a devil, you might even get blisters. So to find out about absolute things also like a computer, you get your computer started. All absolute questions are answered. If there is a mad man, you will start shaking. If there is a saint, you will start getting cool breeze in your hand. There are so many things one can tell about, the truth that you are. So you become the truth.

The third nature of your spirit is joy. Many people confused the joy with happiness. If somebody is given a very big send-off and there is a party in his name and a big pronouncement is made that he was such a great man, he did such a good work and all that, the fellow feels very, you see, flattered. And then when he is flattered, he thinks he is very happy. This is the ego part. But if somebody punctures the ego somehow, then he goes absolutely useless. And you, of many people like this. Supposing today somebody is a big man, a minister. He walks with a nose upward. But when he loses that power, he looks on the ground only. When he is something great, so-called, he wants to see how many people are appreciating him, around him. But when he is nothing he starts feeling so low that he doesn’t want anybody to see him.

Now another question was about ego and super-ego, if we develop both of them highest, then what can we achieve? One would become a lunatic, because these are like two cuckoos. The ego when it develops too much, he is a sadist. And when the superego develops, he is a masochist. So one develops at the cost of other. How can you develop both of them, and even if you develop, it will collide. You are not to be your ego or superego. You have to be your self. And the journey is very short. And if that happens, if you get all these blessings, why not have it? So in that swing of ego and superego, we should not move like a pendulum but we should move in a spiral way for our evolution. It’s a spiral movement, to jump onto a higher level where you become the spirit. It is as parallel as we have had those space-crafts. The evolution has been like this, that as we have one container, then another container in charge, another container, another container, like that. Like, first the physical containing everything rose high, then blasted off and gave an acceleration for the second one with the mental container.

Then it blasted off, came another push to the emotional one. And the last one came out as the spiritual container. And ultimately it shot up into the space. Actually this is the way Kundalini starts triggering you inside. So one has to understand that to evolve yourself you have to become something more.

So now you become the joy. You start enjoying everything. I find sometimes very difficult to walk with anyone who is not a realized soul to a beautiful place. Because I am enjoying the beauty of the place, and this fellow is on how much it must have cost, and it must have been very dangerous and it may even fall down and all those nonsensical ideas. These are all joy-killers. They make you so unhappy and so miserable. Like you meet someone, immediately he starts telling you, “Oh! That man is not good. That fellow is very bad. That man has done this,” like that. And they would be very happy with a devil because they have no sense of joy. A very simple man can be also very joy giving. A little child could be joy giving. A flower could be joy giving. But to this man, it is his ego that gives him happiness.

This is what Zen has done. But those who study Zen are very difficult people. Without realization how can you do Zen? Zen is the same as meditation and you cannot do meditation. You have to be in meditation. Now you are paying attention to Me, and I say, “You pay attention to yourself,” how can you do it?

When you are in meditation your attention is inside. But how can you do it? Only when the Kundalini rises. Her movement upward, catches your attention inside. So you know about your centers as a self knowledge and you know about others’ centers.

Like you know who is a realized soul, who is not. The person who is a realized soul will give you joy. The joy starts coming on your head all the time like that, pouring down in your being, making you absolutely calm and beautiful. But the ego locks off your heart. It does not allow you to laugh and to enjoy. It makes you serious. But this is all the play, the leela of God, to be enjoyed in its complete purity. And it’s so great that you cannot describe it but you feel it within yourself.

I give you an example of a… [NOT CLEAR, HER?] once She met a Sahaj Yogini suddenly in Sicily. And by vibrations they felt that they were Sahaja Yogis. And they embraced each other with such joy, with such happiness, “Oh God, you are here. I am here too.” You must see the Sahaja Yogis from the west, when they go to east, in the villages, in simple places where there are a very simple Sahaja Yogi is living, the way they embrace each other, feel happy, the tears start flowing their eyes. “Oh, we have met another saint. Another saint is there, sitting here. We have met him”. So the Sahaja Yogis are that special race of evolved people. They do not dominate anyone. They love everyone. This love is without lust and greed. It is pure love and it is pure joy. May God give you that blessing to be the Joy. Don’t be identified with anything else.
There was a great poet called Surdasa, in India. After writing a very big book, known as Sukh-sagar, He says, “Surdasa ki savi avidya dur karo Nandalal.” “Oh Krishna, please remove all these non-knowledge from me.” That is what is also in the Vedas. The first verse is that, “If by reading this if you are not to be thee, means if you not become the knowledge, it is useless”. In this short time whatever was possible for Me, talk about Christ, other things I have talked. But this talking has no end, I tell you. In London at least I must have given thousand lectures and they have got tapes.

If you want, you can have from them and listen to them, on various subjects. And still they always say, “Mother you always say something new.” So much so, now I want Sahaja Yogis to speak instead of Me speaking, because it is too much. And I am sure a day will come when they will speak instead of Me and I just give realization sitting down nicely.

Because this is the nourishing power. It nourishes you in everything. Like a mother sees her children growing up and nourishing themselves and becoming great, that’s her achievement. As I told you for the first day that now the new type of awareness has to work out. So far the masculine movement was there. People wrote about God, talked about God, preached about God, did a lot on the manly side. And the tree of life grew too much outside. But now the time has come for the Mother Earth to nourish, the Kundalini to nourish. She is the Aquarius and this is the age of the Aquarius. In Sanskrit language called as Kumbha, which means they worship before every puja. So it is the feminine qualities that have to nourish. Of course, as I told you, it is not feminist, which is absolutely another “ism”. Women trying to become men, that’s ridiculous. Again the pendulum. But now when all this growth has taken place, like this instrument is made, now let it go to the mains. So men these modern times, who are compassionate, who are forbearing, who are nourishing, will be worshipped. And not men who try to aggress others. Like I would say Abraham Lincoln, Mahatma Gandhi. All these men are of a different quality altogether.

So this new type of fulfilment has to come. This womb that represents the Kundalini has to nourish us and take us to that beautiful… If there is one enlightened candle it enlightens another candle. The same way you get your enlightenment. Once you your enlightenment, you can give other’s enlightenment too. And as I told you, you cannot pay for it. It is invaluable. It is so invaluable you cannot pay for it. It is so dynamic you cannot organize. It makes you an ascetic who is a dynamic person. And that should happen to all of you, because you are seekers.

May God bless you.

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi