Public Program

C.G. Jung Institute of New York, New York City (United States)


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Advice given at C.G. Jung Society’s Hall. American Tour, New York (USA), 16 September 1983.

At the very outset I have to confess that I have no academic interest in philosophy and I don’t know anything academically. Neither have I known much of Jung till he died, and there was a report about him in one of the Indian journals and I felt that there was a great soul who has gone away. Now you are all great scholars and great intellectuals, while I’m a simple housewife, and all that is simple is reality. Reality is not complicated. One must know it’s the most simple thing is reality and the more simple we become the easier it is for us to grasp the reality. Now to understand Jung’s problem, I have no way out because I was not a student of psychology, but I got hold of some dictionary to know what he was meaning by saying “unconscious” and “collective unconscious,” and all these words. Then later on in London I met a Indian, an Indian boy, studied in Oxford and all that, then he became a psychiatrist also he did his M.B.B.S., and then he became a psychiatrist. A very clever, intelligent person and I found that because he had an Indian background he could integrate properly, and he related to Me all the beautiful things about Jung. Of course he also brought Doctor Adler to meet me, who got somehow cured of his trouble, I think. And Doctor Adler gave me a book as a present. It was so complicated that I gave up. But he was a very nice man I should say, and I found it difficult to explain to him. Because first of all there are certain presumptions in our mind, and certain conditionings, for which we must really thank Freud also, because he is the one who could see that we have conditionings. That’s one point about it.

But he also could not go too far with him because he could only see one side of the human being which he has described here, the left side. Now if you see the left side, is there as is shown, is the power of your desire. And the power of desire, naturally he felt comes from sex, because the last chakra as you see, this red one, is the chakra called Mooladhara chakra, is the center of Mooladhara, and is the one that looks after the excretion of the body. It deals with the pelvic plexus. Now, whatever I’m telling you today, you should listen to it with an open mind, that’s one request I have to make; as a scientist. And secondly, that it is a hypothesis, which I’m putting before you, as far as you are concerned, you need not take it for granted at all, but keep your mind open. And secondly that when you find that it has been proved now, whatever Jung has said can be proved, then you have to accept him as a person who knew quite a lot about Self and about the collectivity.

Now you can see here very clearly, that the one force that acts in us is the power of desire, left side. The right side one is the one that acts, the power of action. Now in the center, (DELETE “Can you see?” “Which one is the left?”) Left is this side, is the blue. (DELETE Shr Mataji goes on to point out which is the left side.) Now the right side you see, is the yellow colored one, is the one that is the power of action. So now you may ask, “What is Kundalini then?” Kundalini is the pure desire. Now what is lacked in Freud’s writing, anything about purity. What is pure desire? Is a desire like we want to have a house, is not pure, because it doesn’t give you full satisfaction. For example if you, even economics has described that wants in general are not satiable. In particular we think that, all right, I’ll have a house, then you have a house, then you want to have a car, then you want to have a helicopter. God knows how it moves. So any desire we have at human awareness is not pure desire. But this Kundalini is the pure desire. So the sense of purity, if it is missing we cannot talk. Now this desire is put there as you see at the triangular bone, and this is there at three and a half coils. Coils in Sanskrit is Kundala, that’s why it is called Kundalini. Now this pure desire is kept in the bone called sacrum. Now it is very significant, sacrum in Greek language means sacred. That means Greek people also knew about this, that there is something sacred here. So that part of sacredness and auspiciousness is also missing.

Now you clearly see here, there are three compartments I’ve seen, one on the left, one on the right and one in the center. So it is not placed one on top of another, this is another mistake. It is vertical. This is one big mistake that these are vertical, so for your ascent you have got a clear-cut passage, this one point. Second point is, that when you say, “unconscious,” means whatever is not conscious, whatever is not felt on your central nervous system is unconscious, all right. But it’s a very mixed up box, I mean everything mixed up together. But what is the purity about it? If you say that the left side, according to Sahaja Yoga, the left side represents the desire. I would say Freud, though he was not so clear-cut, libido and beyond that is the subconscious, and the collective subconscious. So the subconscious is not unconscious. Subconscious is unconscious because of the language problem. It’s a language problem; unconscious is such a big word because it is not conscious on our central nervous system. But that’s not we are bothered about, subconscious is on one side, we can leave it on one side, all right.

Now on the other side if you see, what we call as the power of action is the futuristic thing, so this side lies the future. We have first the supraconscious area and then the collective supraconscious. See the difference is, that if you say these things are one top of another; we make a very big mistake. That means that if we have to rise to our unconscious, of course rising is also not there, for them it’s to go down, the rising is not described, but what I’ve seen a picture of it, is that the unconscious is below, the unconscious which will never become conscious, then the unconscious, and then the subconscious and then the ego, is rather confusing. Now you see that here, that one is the subconscious and the collective subconscious, and one is the supraconscious and the collective supraconscious. Now the top thing, there where you see these petals and all these things, is a lotus, is the super consciousness. That is the evolutionary ascent we have to achieve, is to become conscious of the super consciousness, which is really the collective consciousness. Now this has two aspects. To say Patanjali did not say about Kundalini because at the time of Patanjali it was kept a secret, but he did write about, after the ascent what happens, very clearly. So the representation of the motherhood is here, this Kundalini is the Mother, which he could see. And the Father, Father is the one who rests on top of your head, so that is super consciousness. You have to become one with the whole, so that means you’re aware of your Self as I, becomes the whole. This has to happen, what is called as the second birth.

Now you might say that, “Why Moses didn’t talk about it, or Abraham didn’t talk about it?” Because their job was, you see, they are all connected with each other, only we are fighting, they are not, they are all together. But the trouble is when people do not have eyes to see, one might say, “The elephant is just a tail,” or somebody might say that, “It’s just the leg,” but they are all one together. But this integration only takes place after you have got realization, to understand that they say the same thing, they have done the same job. In a living process of a seed you can see first, the seed becomes the trunk, it has to become the trunk, that doesn’t mean trunk is less important than the flower. So this is the trunk we can call it here, all these great prophets like Moses and Abraham and all those people were born here, establish the sustenance within us. It started from, also in India, we had people Janaka, Nanaka and the end was the Shirdi Sai Nath. There were ten main incarnations of these people, who came in this part and they reside within us to give us the religion.

Now the religion we talk of is outside religion, is myth, is mythical. But inside religion is like a valency. As we have a valency for carbon, four valences, in the same way human beings have ten valences and that’s how we have got Ten Commandments. And these Ten Commandments relate to our ten valences within us, and that’s how we do it, that you maintain the balance. Because if you go too much to this side then you go to the left side, then you fall a prey to subconscious to collective subconscious, if you go too much to this side, it’s all into the supraconscious and to the collective supraconscious. That’s why the balance has to be maintained. Any vehicle, which has to ascend, like say an aeroplane, if it is not in balance it cannot ascend. To ascend one has to maintain the balance, and that’s why the religion, which is nothing but consciousness regulated by superconsciousness. Because these people came, according to us, they were incarnations of the Primordial Master. They didn’t say so, because to say this is very dangerous. Anybody says, “I’m the incarnation of Primordial Master,” immediately either they’ll poison you or they’ll hang you by the nearest tree. You see that’s what has been, I mean, nobody wants to listen to anyone who says something sensible or truthful. We have been doing that throughout and, of course you cannot crucify Me this time, but there are lots of problems I face because I tell the truth. And the truth is, that all of them who were born at this stage within us, are looking after our religion, means our valences, means our sustenance by which we are human beings.

If we go beyond this, that side or this side, then we become either subnormal or abnormal. Now the subnormal people are the ones who go to the left side. Now I would like to say that another mistake was committed because of the idea of this unconscious. That way the findings of the Indian seers, because in India there is nothing like religion is just a seeking, a true seeking of a person, is neither a Hindu, Muslim, Christian, those who are seers; you see they say, “There is no caste for a seer.” A person who’s a seer has no caste, he has no religion, he’s nothing, because he’s a human being. He doesn’t belong to any conditioning of the kind, but to the truth itself. So they found out through meditative method, not through reading, through mental projections or through imaginations or anything, but through meditative method. First they had to become realized souls. Like in Patanjali as she said it, it’s not written clearly but it is said, “First you have to have Ishvar Pranidhan,” means you must get your realization first, the God must be established within you. Before that, anything else you do is just artificial. For example now, this thing they have put it here for me to speak, supposing it was not connected to the mains, it would not work, is a very simple thing again I say. Any machinery, this one, if it is not put to the mains it doesn’t work. In the same way human beings, who are not connected to the mains, if they start working out they either go to the left or to the right.

Now also we see very clearly, medically we can see this, what happens? That we have an autonomous nervous system within us. If you ask the doctors, “Who’s this auto?” they don’t know. They just say, “Auto” because it works by itself. Who is the auto they cannot say. But in the autonomous nervous system in Sahaja Yoga, you see branding is the way people just shut you out, you don’t know what to say that you are autonomous nervous system. Now you ask them, “Who is auto?” Because I did medicine I was surprised the way they were going about with all the blindness, doesn’t matter. This autonomous nervous system has got two groups of nervous systems, one is sympathetic another is parasympathetic. Now the sympathetic nervous system, though they call it autonomous, but it is under our control, because in sympathetic nervous system in any emergency it comes into play. Like supposing I’m frightened, then I start running; then when I start running the sympathetic goes into action and when sympathetic goes into action the parasympathetic brings it back to the norm. Means, supposing you are running very fast, your heart starts pulsating very fast, but then it comes to normal by the action of the parasympathetic. So we have two types of left and right sympathetic nervous systems, both can be activated by our own emergency created by us. Now see the left and right according to the doctors is all just the same, for them it’s quite a blind alley. So parasympathetic, they don’t want to talk, they’re honest people because they don’t want to talk parasympathetic. But sympathetic also what they understand is that the left and right are just the same, but it is not so. Left looks after the emotional or the desires as you say, the emotional side, the conditioning side and also the subconscious, because it creates the subconscious within us. The present subconscious is created by this nadi or the channel.

Now the right side one, as I told you, is for the action, it creates the supra conscious side. Means a person is say is a very, very futuristic person. I mean Americans are very futuristic and very speedy people, so what happens they start moving to the right, too much of action, very speedy, very fast. You see everything is for the future, I mean you are sitting here and may be we are thinking of tomorrow, “What I am going to cook?” sort of thing. So this is what happens to us when we start thinking about the future. And then we create a realm as the present supraconscious within us. But beyond that lies the realm called as the collective supra conscious. So as I told you, there is collective supra conscious, and collective subconscious, and a collective superconsciousness. Then we have another collective hell we can call it. So we have four types of collective consciousness. But it is not conscious in our central nervous system, that’s why we call it unconscious, is a general name, English language unconscious, which is general name. But actually we have four types of unconscious and all of them are collective.

Now what happens to the collective subconscious? Collective subconscious is the area where all that is dead since our creation, resides. All that is dead resides in that area.Recently I saw a very interesting documentary on cancer cure or cancer. Some doctors had given a very good report, saying that, “That if the body is vulnerable for cancer,” according to Sahaja Yoga when you have too much in a sympathetic activity then you are vulnerable for cancer, then an attack comes to you from the area which is built since our creation. They are very near us. And they call that, as the name is given again as protein fifty-eight, you can call it the street number sixty-eight as well, I mean you can call it anything. So they call it protein fifty-eight, and protein fifty-two, that’s what I gathered in that thing they call it like that. But now what are these things that trigger? They are the ones who trigger cancer. This is one point we have to find out, what happens if you go to the collective subconscious. Because of this complete jumble of for collective consciousness, we can say, because of not understanding that these are four areas kept like this, separately that way, this way and downward and upward, absolutely nicely compartmented. The problem came, that they thought that we have to go into these areas first to understand about the depth of our being.

Now as you see, there is a clear cut path in the center, here, according to Sahaja Yoga, there is a, and another thing is, Sahaja Yoga does it, it works out, it’s an actualization, it is not just talking or theories. Actually you can see the Kundalini pulsating in the triangular bone, not in everyone, but on the people who have some problems on the Nabhi chakra, this centre or that centre if there is an obstruction, then the Kundalini really pulsates, and you can see with your naked eye. We have some of the photographs taken by them, but we cannot say that definitely in this person it will pulsate like that. With a stethoscope you can feel the pulsation rising, and when you bring it to the top of your head you can feel the pulsation rising here. And when it stops you’ll feel the cool breeze coming out of your head, actually cool breeze. This is actualization. Now what happens actually is that this Kundalini is the one who is the Mother principal within us, reflected as the Primordial Mother. It was so great and courageous of Jung to talk about this when Freud was so much accepted by everyone. Even now in London there are only twelve Jungians, you’ll be surprised, I’m so happy to see so many of you are here. So he is the one who very courageously put forward this idea that there is the Mother’s force within us, which is a fact, and which can be proved.

If you see historically now, at the time of Moses and Abraham, you see, Moses crossing the bridge, you see this is significant here. This is the void, we call it the void, but Zen for them void is different. So we cross this. In the same way Moses crossed, through the bridging he did it and this bridging takes place when the Kundalini rises from that triangular bone, and crosses over, then the first bridging takes place. Now one may ask the question there, “Then why did they think like that? Why is it they did not have the right idea about it? Why these mistakes were created, if they were realized souls?” No doubt they were realized souls. But here the problem was in this country, all these western countries, is that it’s a very individual effort of a person, and traditionally it was not known so much about it. Though Christ has openly said, “That you are to be born again and that a transformation must take place”. But then again we started an artificial type of a baptism, that you put some hand on somebody’s head, anybody putting hand and saying, “Now you are baptized.” But there are people like Blake, who said, “A priest cursed on my head”, he said so. So the thing is that because it is not a knowledge of the ancient times in the western area, people took an individual probe into the thing. Naturally whatever they found out was not supported, something was supported by their experiences whatever he had from the dreams and all that, so he established it. But another problem is, a person who suddenly, through spontaneity only, through Kundalini awakening only, jumps on the stage, then he starts seeking about stage, about the frame work, how it is made, how it is done. But because it is an individual approach it is very linear, it is not going from one point to many points but is linear. For example, he would go on this point to find out, then onto that point to find out, and then onto that point. But supposing somebody who knows about the framework and also about the stage can tell you about everything and that is what is needed today.

Historically it was, I would say the Dharma, the religion was established, historically, for our consciousness, everybody has contributed. Then it came further onto this point where another center is very important; these are all the milestones of our evolution, mile stones. At this point, the advent of the Motherhood came, just to protect, for protection, because that time ascent was not so much needed, but the protection of the seekers, and She came as the Mother of the seekers to protect them from evil forces. Now the evil forces were from the left and from the right. The left side people also are sly; those who invade, those who torture are what you call the masochist sort of people and the right side as the sadist people. Then when they die also, they do not leave their habits and they then possess people and try to torture. For example Hitler, Hitler used Lamas for this, and he got the supraconscious ideas from them. Lamas are known for their supraconscious ideas, that they can tell you where the Lama is going to be born, and where such and such person, all the futuristic things. And he had a training with them and they went down there, some of the people went and told him how to use the supraconscious spirits to impress or to possess the Germans and he managed that very well. Because of that, they lost their consciousness; they didn’t know what they were doing. In possession one doesn’t know what he’s doing. And that’s how these possessed people did such work that even animals can not do, worse than animals, without any sense of shame without any sense of decency, without any sense of love or compassion.

So the whole development came up like that and surprisingly they also called it as a Fatherland. Fatherland, the right sided, the right sided manifestation you can say, the manifestation of the action. So that’s how we grew up with our action, developing our ego, as she told you, first we had just the part which was the pituitary within us at an animal stage, but then pituitary was pushed down, our ego came up as the action took place on the right hand side we developed this yellow stuff you see, it’s like a bile color and all these people have bile trouble and liver trouble. Those who are over active are aggressive people and they tend to aggress others. Now the problem was, that India was dominated for three hundred years by English people and the seers and all were ridiculed and laughed at, nobody even bothered to look at them. So they disappeared into their caves and disappeared into places where they could not be located. It was such an aggression of ego on them. And later on they made our people to learn more about science and more about their culture and their achievements, they impressed so much on the Indian people that we took to your styles. All these seers got lost. So fourteen thousand years back you’ll be surprised, there was a great seer called Markandeya who has written all about Kundalini, about the ascent of the Kundalini and everything. There was a great astrologer, I should say, he was the person who started astrology in India about sixteen or seventeen thousand years back, you cannot really say when he started it. He wrote one great book called (Sounds like-Bhrigu Sangeeta.) But before writing that he wrote another one called (Sounds like-Nadi Grantha). Of’ course this is written on the lotus leaves and this voluminous thing was later on completely depicted and brought to, up-to-date level by another person about three hundred years back whose name was (sounds like Bhujandar). Can you imagine that this man thousands of years back predicted clearly that the Sahaja Yoga will start in 1970. And that in that way the Kundalini will rise spontaneously, and people will get their realization. Because for an Indian, I mean for an Indian I say, not the westernized but the real Indian, the highest goal in life is to get Self Realization. When my grandchild was born, you see, her horoscope was cast and when the horoscope was cast, they sent a telegram for my family, the astrologers, “The great thing is her Guru is in her own family, she’s a born realized. But they said, but for them this was the greatest,

(This next section not recorded on the copy of the tape) I have to send a telegram to her family saying, “It is the greatest thing that she has her Guru in her family so that she can get her realization.” So this is what it is. The whole attention of the people in India should be, if they follow their traditions, is to get self-realization. But as the Western people impressed them so much you see, so much of impression came from them, we had to learn about your sciences, your all these things and we just forgot. Not easy to talk to Indian doctors about how parasympathic, if it is mastered, you can cure any diseases whatsoever, because they learn only from you. Now even if some people want to talk what happens that they think we are sort of challenging their ego? The problem is, even about religion or God, one cannot talk. In the meanwhile I’m very happy that Jung had warned that, “Be careful about India,” that was a very big thing he said. Because Jung came to know about India through people, some German writers who went to India. Now their main interest is to find support of the Freudian theory that what is sex, this thing, that thing, only that. Even though you’ll be surprised Japanese have the same interest about India. They want to come and see what is tantrism and how these erotic things are there and they take zoom lens you see, and go on top of the these old temples to take a photograph of erotic things. It is so surprising for us; we never see these things, why they are doing that. Because when in the sixth century after the advent of Adi Shankaracharya who also propounded that, “It is the Kundalini who has to be awakened.”

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and unless and until you get your Realization you are nowhere near religion. These people came up just to attack, the negative attack. And all of them formed a very big belt, starting from Bengal going round through the middle of India going towards Gujarat. And there they propounded that it is through sex you can achieve your realization. Because a sort of a, that was the only way they could make some money out of it also, by helping the very licentious and permissive rulers in those days, by telling them that the sex is the way you can achieve God.

Now here you can see very clearly that the center, which is supporting or which looks after the sex activities below the Kundalini. In Sanskrit it also is written, shata chakra bhedan, means six, six centers are to be pierced through. Shata chakra, six not the seventh. But these people said that, “This is the Kundalini is in this center which looks after the sex.” Now I as a Mother, I don’t want to condemn them so much so I would say that may be a mistake also. Because here resides the Deity, a symbol as you call it, which has got the head of an elephant, because elephant is the wisest animal and the head of an animal signifies, that such a person never gets ego. It’s the human beings only; the human animal only gets the ego part of it. So to suggest that it is the pituitary only acting, and that it is an innocent. To represent the innocence in us this symbol they must have seen, but not the whole of it, must have seen a part of that trunk and they must have thought that this must be the Kundalini.

So to give them a full benefit of the doubt, I would say like that, but people took too much advantage of it. So they started big competitions, that those people who can produce such erotic art and all that will be given so much money and this can happen, that can happen. Artists would not take to it, so they gave them lots of temptations that so they should accept. Like in Nepal they gave another temptation by saying that, supposing, you see, if you make the temples out of the wood they can be destroyed. But the Virgin who is, according to Indian mythology, is the thunderbolt, and the thunderbolt if you want to keep it out, better make things that she won’t come near them. Just to make it repulsive they made it. They gave all kinds of arguments. Like they told the ministers, you see, were very austere people and they wanted to have their own temples, so they told the king, “All right to please you we’ll have some licentious thing outside but inside we’ll keep very pure.” Because that is light, that is fertility, this and that, all kinds of stories and theories they made up, just to create this kind of a new cult there.

Now what happened? Why they did it? Is a very important point one should note why these people tried to bring down divinity, purity to that level. The reason was, that when you start insulting divinity or purity, then that area becomes absolutely horrid. When the purity is removed then you can do whatever you like in that area. You can get possessions there, you can get all kinds of spirits there, you can do all kinds of witchcraft and all those things, if you somehow or other create an area where divinity doesn’t want to go, this was the principle. And that’s what exactly they used to create an area of this kind. Like there’s a very great temple in India called Kamakhya Devi’s temple, and all these tantrikas went there and tried to do that, like having sex relationship in the temples and things like that. And by that they saw to it that whatever is divine that is showing there, should be removed and all the negativity could be brought in. Now in the Ten Commandments it is said, “Whatever is created by the Mother Earth should not be reproduced and should not be worshipped.” Now we should find out what hat is created by Mother Earth? This point we miss. Whatever is created by Mother Earth, that Mother Earth Herself has produced something divine. Now in India people know about it, that it is so. I went to a place called Musalwadi, in a village, because I work more in the villages, and there they told me a story, that, “Mother there’s place here where an Englishman came about a hundred years back, an engineer, and he tried to build a (sounds like -bhand) for creating a nice tank there. And what happened that at a particular point about 20-30 meters, he could not build it. Whenever he tried to build it, next day it used to be finished off.” So he was quite surprised, and he’s written down in his own diary and all that, they have published the diary also. He had to make a bhand like this and go round and then make it further. So I wanted to go and see the place. When I saw the place I knew this is something created by the Mother Earth. Now how do you know it is created by the Mother Earth is the point to which I’ll come later on. So there are places created by the Mother Earth, already, to vibrate the divinity, the purity, the whole expression of Her compassion and love for human beings. But unless and until you are a realized soul you cannot feel them and understand them. Only a realized soul can feel them and understand them. For example Stonehenge, I went there, Stonehenge is the same story. But the problem with them is that the people who are Druids who are doing all this worship don’t know what it is, they don’t know how to use it. So in this way the Mother Earth has also created so many such places, which have come out of the Mother Earth, and they are there. In India there are many places like that, like in Maharashtra we have Ashtavinayakas, eight of the symbols of the innocence Deity as you say.

Now because people are not realized souls, one cannot talk to them. Because if I say they’ve reached the thing, how will you know? So when the Kundalini ascends through the central, you see the subject is so great that even if I give thousand lectures I cannot cover it, so the thing is I’ll try to cover every point little bit here and there. When the Kundalini ascends, I told you the cool breeze starts coming out of your head. So what happens to you? For the first time you feel the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost. Now some may deny Christ, that was wrong thing to deny Christ, I must tell you very frankly. It’s a conditioning, it’s a conditioning to deny him, because you see, by denial what you have done, you have denied an Incarnation who came at that point. But the way they have made out of Christ, naturally anybody would deny. The way they made Him an Incarnation anybody would deny. I mean I got my birth, I mean I should say I got it because I deliberately got born into a family which was a Protestant Christian, because they are the most sophisticated fanatics. Absolutely, because it’s such a rational thing they have made out of Christ, that I thought this is the place I should be born so that I would be able to tell them that this is not Christianity, this is not Christ. So the way they made Christ naturally people denied Him but He is the one who has suffered for us, definitely. So there is no suffering needed for us at all, if you ask for suffering you’ll suffer. Only thing, He is to be awakened here. Now if I say about Christ or anyone, it should not be taken for granted at all, nobody should take it for granted.

What happens when the Kundalini rises? Say, it is here in the stomach. Many people who have been to wrong gurus, who have been following wrong things or those who think, “I’m the guru, I know how to do it and I’m the one who has done it,” they have to take the name of Moses. Unless and until you take His name it won’t rise, the Kundalini won’t rise. Now when it reaches this point you have to take the name of Christ. Here you have to take the name of Mohammad. Who was Mohammad? Nobody else but Moses Himself was born. You’ll be surprised the Islamic people today are following Shariat.) What is Shariat? If you have read Bible, is the same as written for the Jews. Same thing they are following what is written in the Bible, they are following. We are not following it, but they are following it. Which shows that because when Moses came down be found these people in such a big mess and such a big hell, that he had to make a very, very strict law to pull them out of that hell, and that’s why he gave such strict laws. Actually if you have read the books of the Essenes, I was surprised that many people who have read it showed it to me, that they really, clearly said that the laws were not so strong, but Moses had to make them so strong because people were absolutely hellish and they were going down so rapidly that he made those laws. But surprisingly, they are more followed by the Muslims and imposed on them.

Now if you want to know what you are, say a Muslim wants to know about himself he should go and ask a Jew. And if you want to know about the Jew you should go and ask a Christian. And if you want to know about a Christian you can ask an Indian. So it is the opinion of others will correct your conditioning in the mind, because you are born in one religion, it’s a conditioning. It’s absolute conditioning, and this is the worst conditioning that people have. Then how will you accept the truth? If you are conditioned you can never accept truth. And that’s why the Indian fake gurus have accepted the advantage, you see they are very clever, cunning, absolutely cunningness personified. They all came down here first, with the idea we don’t talk about religion, finished. So they suit us very well, if they don’t talk about religion, about God then they’re the best because it doesn’t come in conflict with our conditioning that we have. So they talk about flying in the air, for which people have paid six thousand pounds each, for flying in the air. I am the one, in 1970 I openly took their names and denounced them and told the people who they were in previous lives. At that time you see, so many of my disciples started shaking, they said, “Mother what are You doing? They are going to kill You.” I said, “Let them try, try their level best.” So these fake gurus came here, started the cult, and started all kinds of these things. First of all don’t talk of God, and if you talk of God, then just make the person such a slave that he cannot get out of it. They use the supraconscious, or they use the left sided subconscious. And that’s how they have attacked your people.

Now the people who have no idea as to what should happen they think they have to go through this suffering. There is no need to go through the suffering at all. When Christ has gone for you, finished. There is no need for you to go through any suffering any more, just you have to awaken Christ within you. Just count your blessings one by one. It’s a very cheerful thing, it’s not such a serious stuff, you see. Like in Paris I went they said, “Mother never say you are the happiest person.” I said, “Why, I am enjoying completely.” They said, “No, you must say you are very serious, and that you are suffering very much.” I said, “I’m not, how can I tell them a lie?” They all say, “You’ll have to suffer.'” I said, “Why?” They said, “Because here everybody believes that we all have to suffer.” Les Miserables you see. I said, “All right these Les Miserables are sitting on the streets of Paris, drunk completely, and prostitutes at every lamp post, are the Les Miserables, they are the ones who have created their miseries like this.” This is how our mental projection has taken us, to this kind of a hell, from which to come out only Kundalini can help you. Now this is the Mother’s thing, is the, so we can say that first is the Father’s manifestation came, then the Son, now the Holy Ghost has to come. Now people, Christianity is another absurd thing they teach, that there is the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost but not the Mother. How can you have a Son and a Father without the Mother, can you? It is absurd, but all intelligent people accept it and seriously talk about it. And Holy Ghost is a mystery, don’t talk about Holy Ghost, it’s a mystery. Because to say that Mother has a part to play, is too much for them. Because in Christian religion, so called, they don’t have any place for the women to become the priest or anything.

My father was a great, learned man who was the master of fourteen languages and he translated Quran-e-Shareef into Hindi, and very learned. I should say he was the one who told me about human beings, and how their permutations and combinations work. And I asked him, “But why this Martin Luther, who was a realized soul, put away the Mother’s position that way?” He said, “That time,” you see – we call it “samayachara”, “according to the timing – the Muslims were very powerful”. And he said that, “If he talks of the Mother he’ll be hit hard.” So he took a course where he said, “She’s the one who’s there, who gave the birth to Her child, and all that,” but he wouldn’t call Her as a Primordial thing or a Primordial Power. But the truth has to show itself. So in recent times you have seen how the women have become very conscious of themselves. Of course they are absolutely misled, absolutely misled. Because they think if they become like men, then they solve the problem, it’s not true. It’s a pendulum you see, you move like a woman to a man, man to a woman, it’s a pendulous movement. What you have to do is to rise in a spiral way, otherwise evolution is not there.

Evolution is the spiral movement and it’s not shown here how the Kundalini moves, but maybe later on I may be able to tell you in details how the movement of the Kundalini takes place, and how the spiral movement of the consciousness has taken place so far. In the same way the spiral movement has to take place, that in your evolutionary process you must come above the man and the woman part of it. So this is completely misled business that we dominate the men. And when I say this many ladies left you see, the hall, they were very angry with me that I was saying so, but it’s a fact. And the woman is the mother; she’s in a way higher than man, I think. She’s the mother she has to nourish. She’s here for nourishment. So the new awareness has to be that of nourishment, of compassion and love. For example, in the olden days, for us Napoleon was a vintage hero, and now if you call any Frenchman a Napoleon he’ll hit you back, he can’t stand it, because according to him, he was very egoistical. So who is the hero today? Somebody like King, like Mahatma Gandhi, somebody who is the manifestation of the womanly qualities, of the Mother’s qualities of compassion, love, of nourishment of this Mother Earth.

Now very interesting it is to see that this Kundalini is the one, which is called as the kumbha, in Sanskrit language, means the Aquarius. We call it Aquarius, as one of the signs, and is the same as kumbha in Sanskrit language. So it is the Age of the Aquarius, is the age of the Kundalini. Secondly is the age of the Kundalini which will nourish, which is the Mother within, which will rise, will give you the completeness of it, and which will connect you with your Spirit which ultimately gives you the enlightenment by which you become collectively conscious. You become, again I say, it’s not just telling stories, you just become. Today we had a lady, 1 came a little earlier, she came to see Me and apologized that, “Mother I went to this Muktananda and got very badly hurt and I’m in terrible pain and I have to get up every moment and I hope You don’t mind.” I said, “All right you come up, and I’ll cure you.” She came up, she’s better now, but only thing her Kundalini rose and she felt the cool breeze coming out of her head and she felt the cool breeze coming out of her hands.

Now what is this cool breeze that is coming out of your hands? For the first time you feel the subtle All Pervading Power about which, everyone has talked. The Rueh, as they call it, they call it, as the Brahma Tattwa, they call it by various names is the All Pervading Power of God’s love. So we come back to the origin, that first the God Almighty, the Father and Mother is His power, and He’s the spectator and She’s the play. That’s how it works, and the Son is created to lead the people through this problem of ego and superego, because it is so much tight that someone of a very great nature had to take up the resurrection as a drama. Now Christ actually is described in Indian scriptures, but Christians won’t go beyond Bible, they cannot, they’re so bound they will not go beyond Bible to see, to them Bible is the last and the first and everything. It’s surprising in everything they cross limits, but in understanding you must go to other scriptures. That’s why I really respect and appreciate Jung because he went out of the way to find out about everything with a very open scientific mind. Now, in the Indian scripture, in the Devi Mahatmayam where they have described the Goddess, they have very clearly described Christ, absolutely, all His life, but He is called as Mahavishnu. Vishnu is the Deity at this point, which is responsible for our evolution. But He’s at Mahavishnu point, and His description if you read to the last bit of it, is so good, and He is the Incarnation of the same innocence born on this earth. It’s so clearly described. Why do we have an egg for Easter? Egg represents a human being, who has not got realization as yet, because egg has to become the bird. And in Sanskrit language a realized soul is called as (sounds like vijaha) born again, twice born.

But in America I came in 1973, of course I was a big failure because they told me, “Mother, without money nobody is going to listen to you, you must charge some money.” They cannot understand anything that can be had without money. I said, “But how much are you going to pay, it’s invaluable. You cannot pay for this realization. It is your right to have this, and you will have it. And how can I take money for it?” So I was a big failure, but many people came here. But out of that came out a cult called “Twice born”, and one of them walked up to me with a Bible in her hand to hit me, in one of the programs and every body was upset but I was just laughing and we have a big film about it. Because I said, “Look at this one, the twice born walking with a Bible just to hit me.” Bible to hit, I mean I’ve never heard that. I had heard that people used to walk with a Bible and a gun in another hand, but the Bible to be used as a gun was the first time I saw such a fantastic thing. So it can happen! You see, the people get so much possessed by the ideas and by the conditioning that they can go to any limit of accepting something as truthful, without finding out, what did I achieve out of it, or what did my forefathers achieve out of it? Why not the Christians or Jews or anyone find out, what did they achieve? Now, they’ll say it is postponed for, say ten thousand years. Why? Supposing I say to anyone, “There’s a diamond available for you here, just now,” will you wait? I tell you, people from Australia will come down.

But if I say your Realization just there, you must understand that all systems and all that will work out. Comes from the unconscious, which is God Almighty, and in us He has worked out the system so beautifully, so delicately. Did you become a human being by any effort? From an amoeba stage He has made you a human being without giving you any trouble whatsoever. What trouble did you take? What did you do? Did you stand on your head or did you pay for it? You just got it spontaneously. So if you believe in that force that is there, of compassion and love, why should you not believe that if you have to get your realization, it would work out spontaneously? It has to work out spontaneously. So this Mother force, that is there, the age of the Aquarius as you call it, this has to come up and nourish you, and it does. It has worked out wonders in India, because Indian villagers are still very simple, thank God. They’re not educated, they’re not complicated, they just start feeling the cool breeze and enjoying it, that’s all. They give up all habits, they give up all wrong ideas, their all customs of caste and all those things they give up, and they become extremely joyous. But that’s not the end of it. When you get your realization, your material problems are solved, surprisingly, even material problems are solved, but to that extent that you do not become Mr. Ford, to have a headache. But you become a person who is satisfied and you get a balanced amount of comfort and a balanced amount of living. Actually you’ll be surprised that comfort is also a myth. Because see look at Me, for Me I don’t know what is comfort is. I don’t understand that why should people worry so much about comfort. If you make Me sleep on the street, I’ll sleep like a log of wood. If you make Me sleep in a palace, I’ll be there. After all you don’t carry anything with you at all. I mean nothing sticks to you, does it? I mean once you have to sleep, you just sleep off.

Now another point I would like to point out from Jung’s point of view that he took to dreams as one of the very big, big experimental truthful manifestation of the unconscious. But what happens, how do you get dreams, let’s see. The dreams come to you from the Kundalini itself, in a way. So what happens the Kundalini is not connected on the central path, but it is the record, is all our past, all our record is in there, like a tape recorder has a tape, it is there. And what happens, that when you go very deep into (Sounds like Sushuti ) that’s the stage they call it, very deep into you, then the symbolism comes through that down below and passes through that blue line into your brain and that’s how you start seeing the dreams. But when you are passing through that you see you pass through your all subconscious area, so the dreams get distorted, they get a funny symbolism. Sometimes you don’t understand what’s happening, it becomes a sort of a mixed up expression and on that to depend may not be so much good. Instead of that we must get the reality. The reality is that you become collectively conscious and you develop this vibratory awareness by which you can feel the All Pervading Power. But this is just what you get as far as your conscious mind is concerned, as far as your central nervous system is concerned. But actually what does it do, is the point? When it happens, what happens? First of all when the Kundalini rises above this center Agnya chakra, then the suction takes place of the ego and superego, so the space is created. Actually you can feel the soft bone like a child, when it comes up, actually you can see. First of all the eyes dilate and then it comes out from here and you start feeling the cool breeze, actually here coming out. Now this is what you feel, but it acts in this way that these vibrations, are the vital forces we can say, not libido only, but all these things mixed together which are in pure form, which are for your Hita. Hita means, which is for your Spirit, we can say, and when you want to give vibrations to someone like that with your hand at the most, the person can be cured. You can cure cancer patients.

Now there’s one gentleman who has come here luckily. I mean it’s all Sahaja again I say, spontaneous, that I met him and he was a person suffering from angina a very serious type of thing had happened, because they said, He has to go to Houston, and he had booked his seats, everything, and was about to go. And then he came to Delhi, just to meet his friends because he thought here something might happen so it’s better to go and see them. And there they had the Rotarians you see, they called Me for a lecture, and I was speaking. There must be a lot of people there and he came out with the question that, “What about the heart?” I said, “Heart is completely under control with Sahaja Yoga.” So he found it very difficult to find Me out in Poona, but he just came to Me, and I think I must have treated him for about ten or fifteen minutes and I said, “Now you are all right.” But first he had a big, you can say, a big convulsion sort of a thing because the force was there, and then suddenly he got rid of it and he’s perfectly all right, he’s normal. He went back to the doctors and they said, “What have you, this is not your X-rays, these are not your reports, these are too different.” And luckily this gentleman happens to be here in America, but this is only one of the cases. I would say that luckily it so happened that Sahaja Yoga has cured people like we can say the President of India, who was suffering, who came here for an operation for his cancer of the lungs. And when he was going I just went to see him, because my husband knew him very well, and the High Commissioner just said that, “You know She’s such and such, but also She’s Mataji Nirmala Devi,” and I’m known in India for this kind of things. So the wife of the President said, “Then Mother, please cure my husband.” And he was very much suffering, he could not sleep, and people were worried that he may not survive up to Delhi airport. Then I treated him for ten to fifteen minutes only, and he felt now I’m feeling relaxed, I’m going to sleep. And next day when they reached Delhi, he walked down and everybody was surprised. They had taken a stretcher, this thing. And he told me, after that he went straight for a tour. And he then later on, his wife showed me that even the mark of his operation has disappeared. So you can write to him and find out about it if you want to find, but it’s nothing important, it was just a by product. So I must warn you that I’m not here to cure anyone, or to do anything but if the Kundalini rises, She nourishes. It’s your own, it’s your own Kundalini, it’s your own Spirit, it works.

Now what am I doing here? People might say that, “Why you?” I mean it’s very common question in the all western countries then, “Why of all the persons you should do it?” I said, “You better to do it, I’ll be very happy, I would like to retire with My husband with My grandchildren.” But the thing is I have to do, what can I do about it? I mean, say you are intellectuals I’m not, you can drive a car, I cannot, I cannot operate a bank, I cannot do many things. Supposing I know how to do Kundalini why should you feel so hurt about it? And it’s a thankless job, you have to work really very hard, 24 hours job it is, you see, and everybody wants to gain out of it. So I don’t understand that why should the ego come in between? But doesn’t matter, I’m like a bank; I have to just cash your cheques, that’s all I’m here for. I’ve nothing to gain out of it, in the sense, that of course I feel very joyous, many people get their realization, and really get their own, because this is your own thing. It is within you it is nothing to be paid for nothing to be worked out; it’s just within you. But supposing one person gets it, he can give it to others also. Like one candle, which is not enlightened, can be enlightened by another enlightened candle. Now this candle doesn’t do anything except that it enlightens that candle, and that candle has to be enlightened another candle. It is as simple as that, is nothing very serious. You don’t have to go into, see they had told me, I was really thinking Jungians how will I address them, you see, they’re already moving like that, like that, and I’m such a simple person. How will I tell them what I have to tell them? But it is such a simple thing I tell you, it’s even simpler than cooking. So one should not think that God could have made anything very complicated. See we breathe without even reading a book. Supposing you have to read a book, and then breathe, how many of us would survive? Is as simple as that. Now if you have to go up, if God has created this universe, and if He wants to save His universe and His creation, He has to jolly well do something about it. If He has made us like this, He has to give us realization too. And it is so surprising that I find it is working out.

Of course we cannot have 50 million disciples like that, as these fake gurus have, because to create a plastic flower is very easy. You just give somebody a name, go on repeating his name. Now they give a name, repeat the name of Rama. Now there is no connection, you go on pressing on your sympathetic nervous system. Now Rama could be a servant dead somewhere, he just enters into you and you start jumping. You start jumping like a frog. Some people came to my program they were jumping like a frog. So I said, “Why are you jumping like a frog?” They said, “Our guru said, “When the Kundalini rises then you jump like a frog.” I said, “Now are you going to become a frog or an earthworm?” Use your brain. That’s the problem, you see, with all intelligence when it comes to their evolution, to the living process, they just don’t want to use their brains. Whatever these gurus tell them they are willing to do it and do whatever they like. Like another guru is there who brings out diamonds, this, that from the air, and. it’s all jugglery, it’s absolutely jugglery. Now what I’m saying, “What is the interest of God in diamonds? What is His interest? Why would He give you diamonds?” You see diamonds you can always go and buy from somewhere. But people don’t think, you know he’s very popular, he’s very popular with affluent people. Why should they ask for diamonds? I can understand Indians, but he’s not bothered about Indians so much. But he gave a diamond ring to a gentleman who was a very, very rich man. So I said, “Why did he give you a diamond ring? He should have given it to your driver. And if he’s such a diamond ring fellow, why doesn’t he solve our problems in India, our poverty, completely?” So this is what one has to think openly, with open mind and you can save all these people from these cults and sects.

Now the best of part of it, that I’m also called as a sect, that’s the best part of it. From the year 1970 I’m the lone person who’s been fighting and fighting these people, clearing people who have suffered from it, I’m the person who has been telling everyone about them, their nature, what they have been, how they practice this, how they have managed you, what has happened to you, everything. Despite that, the shallowness, or the naivety we can say of the western people, now they call me also a sect. Now this is the limit. I said, “Now to call me as a sect, would be something like calling Christ as Hitler.” I mean I can’t understand how these two things can go together, a person who has been fighting them lonely, all these things.

So this is what it is, and I’m very happy that you have given Me your precious time today and listened to Me. Now I would like to have workshop because I know it would work out very fast with Jungians, because it has worked out always, all those Jungians I have met have been wonderful people. Because they are not so one-sided as Freudians are because you see, Freud reduced us to a sex point. Absolutely are we sex points now? I mean this is too much, very ridiculous. I mean it doesn’t behoove anyone to say that about a human being, that you are nothing but a sex point. But you live without the sex also, so are we not living, are we not existing? I can’t understand how people accepted Freud so much. At least Jung at that time could see this point clearly, that it is not something that has to do with one human being, it’s collective, and this is a happening that is collective.

You’ll be surprised that people, when they get realization, they can give it to thousands. In India in thousands they get realization, in thousands. And also should happen here in America if our chakras are all right. Because the chakras here are very haywire, I must tell you the vibrations here are not good. Because you have witchcraft, you have all the gurus settled down in America, imagine how they all felt so attracted. All of them horrible people are down here, and one better than the other. And I don’t know how they have been able to manage your intelligence. What has happened to your brains? I can’t understand how they have dominated you so much, that one fellow just he wants you to learn flying. Why not ask him to fly himself? Put him on that Pisa, what you call that Leaning Tower of Pisa, and let him fall down and let’s see if he can fly. What I’m saying, “Why not use your brains for these things?” That’s what it is, that’s how you are going to find them out. But what happens, when they suffer. Like this Muktananda, somebody asked Me, “Why is he a dangerous man?” Somebody asked me a question, is one of the questions is there. Now before I came here, there was a lady sitting who has been to Muktananda. To me he’s not only dangerous, but he’s sinister, absolutely sinister. And do you know his children, so called, if they are his own children, two of them, and are now fighting for the diamonds that he has created out of this stupid people here. And the diamonds are worth six thousand; I don’t understand the money part. (DELETE -Six thousand Mother then speaks in Hindi-Something like that, you see I don’t understand,-million-billions, something like that.)You see he’s made out of you people here, all these diamonds. What is the interest of a divine person in diamonds? What can you give? This is what one should understand, that you cannot understand, that you can get your knowledge without paying for it, you must accept. Is the ego of money, is the ego of money, cut it out.

You have to humble down yourself. If you humble down then it’s yours, is there, it’s just in your heart. There’s a saying that whenever I want to see my God, I have to just bend my head towards my heart that’s all. That’s what it is, it’s so simple, it’s very simple. We have to humble down, that money cannot purchase God, because all religions are based on that. Everybody, Mr Pope is having what you call that hat, donkey hat on the head with all the diamonds in it, and like (inaudible), what a crown he has. What a crown he has, think of it. And now like a pop star he is waving to all the people, creating problems for these Polish people, and the political stunts he’s creating. Why don’t you think about this? All these things that condition people, and making money out of it and seminars and this and that. I really am surprised! Where are you lost? What are you doing? Why don’t you come to reality? That the Spirit is within, it is such a simple thing and that Kundalini is your own Mother, She has only one child, that’s you. And She’s so anxious to give you realization, so very anxious that it will just work in a split of a second. So why, why go to these false things and false ideas and false conditioning, having big, big seminars and big, big things? There’s no need to, actually for me it’s not necessary even to talk, but without talking who will come to Sahaja Yoga, nobody. So I have to talk, I’ve talked and talked and talked. So much talk, you can’t imagine. I’ve got about at least thousand lectures in London, and they all feel that it’s something great. I don’t know, but I wished I could stop now talking. The other day somebody was talking, I was so happy that that person can talk very well. I said, “Now I will retire from talking, I will just do the raising of the Kundalini, you better see to the talking.” And I’m quite happy, she also said in a quite good way whatever it is, you people all enjoyed it. So maybe that some of you might come up as great speakers in Sahaja Yoga and you might be able to relieve me of this too much talking. Thank you very much. May God Bless you.

Now if you have any questions I would like to answer them. But it should not be, it need not be aggressive with Me. There’s no need to be aggressive, there’s no political stand going on. It’s just I want you to get your realization; it’s a simple offer. So for that you may not hit me with a bible, all right.

Question: I understand that to raise the Kundalini you should have a master to guide you.

Shri Mataji: She’s asking me if, that she’s read, that you have to have a master, no doubt you have to have a master, no doubt. Meaning the person who is an enlightened soul. A person who is a realized soul can only do. I wish Jung knew how to do it; he would have done it himself. So you have to have a master who is called as a Sat Guru, the one who has achieved the truth, and who is a master. Now I’m not a master, thank God, I am not a master at all I am a Mother. And Mother is always a master in a way. So that’s what it is. But as far as I’m concerned, I am too soft to be a master, I think, because I cannot be hard with people. But masters are horribly hard and I would like to tell you about a master. There was a great realized soul living in a forest on top of a mountain which is not easy to climb down, near Kolophur, he’s known as (sounds like-Ragan Bourha). Ragan Bourha is the name of the mountain. So he sent some people to me saying that, “Mother has come so why do you want to bother me?” So I went down to see him there (Sounds like-and when he’s going to climb) and I went up and of course he was very, he had a power to control the rain. So that day it started raining very heavy, very heavy. So when I went up I got completely drenched and he was so angry like this. He was moving his head up and down and then he came to me and said, “Mother why was it raining so much and you controlled the rain and you allowed the rain to drench my Mother like this? And this is it to kill my ego?” I said, “No, that’s not the point. The thing is you are an ascetic and you are a sannyasi and normally I would not take anything form a sannyasi because I’m a householder. But you have bought a sari for me so unless and until my sari gets drenched how will I wear the sari you have got?” The whole thing became such a poetry you see; he forgot his temper, everything, and he said, “Yes Mother, how did you know I’ve got a sari? I said, “I know, in love you know everything.” And that’s how he gave me the sari to wear.

But then he told me, “Any body who troubles you better send him over to me.” So I said, “All right if anybody troubles me I will send him over.” So a gentleman was very torturous you see, over learned, this that, used to eat my head morning till evening. So I said, “Now what to do?” I said, “All right, you go and see the master, this one Ragan Bourha he never meets anyone.” So this fellow felt so flattered that he called me there, and have me meet the great master and all that. So he reached there. Next time about a month later what I find I’m in a meeting and this fellow is brought with broken legs around his neck and dangling like that you see. And really tears came into my eyes, I said, “What has happened? What has happened to you? What did he do to you?” He said, “Mother never send me to that Guru.” I said, “What happened?” He said, “I didn’t say anything I just said one thing to him against You.” I said, “What did you say against Me?” So I said that, “This Mother, you see, She has no discretion She wants to give realization to everyone and She makes everyone equal level and all that, and I said some things like that.” So I said, “Then what happened?” So this guru has got broken, you see legs are broken by other people, because anybody who is realized I told you, they must break your nose or break they can break you legs or something like that. So his legs are broken so he goes on a tiger, you see, there’s a tiger with him. So this tiger came and he said that, “All right, now you sleep here tonight and tomorrow you go down that’s very late.” So I was sleeping and a tiger came and it threw me in a (inaudible) I fell down about fourteen fifteen feet down, and I broke my legs. So I said, “Then after three, four days I’m lying there calling for people. He brought some bread tied to a rope and he put it down and said, “Now eat and lie down there. And now if you say anything against Mother I’m going to put you right.” For three, four days he did like this. After that he brought him up and he said, “Now you put your legs round your neck, go to Mother, she’ll cure you I’m not going to cure you. If you say a word against Mother I’m going to break your hands now.” I said, “Why should you do such a thing? Why did you do like that?” I asked him, “Why did you do?” He said, “To the donkeys you must give the treatment of the donkey and to the cruel people you must be with them as they are, I’m not a mother. But I cured the fellow, and I was really very sorry.

So it’s a fact, you know, they are very hard taskmasters. They are not here for in the market or anything they are sitting somewhere. I asked one fellow who was a, in a that place, (sounds like-kardi center) and I told him that, “Why don’t you go and see some of your people? You see I won’t be able to go this year, why don’t you go and see them because I’ve not been there from 1972.” He came here for three days he stayed and then back. He said, “I cannot manage it, people are absolutely no good for realization.” (Inaudible) that’s what it is. You have to have a master. But to get a master rather difficult, better get a Mother.

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi