The Truth that we are seeking has to be achieved, understood and felt through a very open mind

Old Cambridge Baptist Church, Boston (United States)

1983-10-11 The Truth that we are seeking has to be achieved, understood and felt, Boston, DP-RAW, 97' Chapters: Talk, Q&A, Self-Realization, WorkshopDownload subtitles: EN (1)View subtitles:
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1983-1011 Public Program, Day 1, Boston, USA

I bow to all the seekers of Truth and the Truth that we are seeking has to be achieved, understood and felt through a very open mind. You cannot conceive the Truth with your mental activity, and you cannot form your own ideas and conventions about it. Like a scientist, you have to keep your mind open to achieve it. Moreover it is an evolutionary process, the process by which you have become a human being. And logically, it should follow, that you cannot put in any effort to become the higher personality. You have put in no effort for your evolution so far. Thirdly, you have paid no money to become a human being. God doesn’t understand money. This is created by human beings. God has no sense of money and He doesn’t know also, perhaps, how maddening it is for human beings.

So you cannot pay for it. It’s something ridiculous to think that you can pay for your ascent, or to say that you can go into a course of realization, because it is a living process of your evolution – a living process. If we understand the living process, you will understand Sahaja Yoga much better.

If you have to sprout a seed, you just put it in the Mother Earth and She sprouts it. How much money do you give Her? She doesn’t understand money. She only knows how to sprout the seed. So when you put the seed in the Mother Earth, it sprouts spontaneously, sahaja. Saha means with, ja means born. It is born within you the capacity to sprout; the capacity to awaken your Kundalini is born with you.

But it has to be the Mother Earth who has to do the job. Like every seed has all the maps of its past and all its future. You have those maps within yourself and once you just become capable of getting enlightened, you get your enlightenment. But we should not put any diffidence into your mind. Many people start thinking that you have to do the cleansing first, and then you get realization. When you are inside the dirt, how can you cleanse?

So this Sahaja Yoga today is of this way that first you get out of it, first have a little light in your lamp, The light is there and the lamp, if it is dirty, it is easier to clean the lamp which is enlightened than to clean a lamp which has no enlightenment. That’s why first you get your Self realization. That is very important before we deal with anything else, that you must get your Self realization first. This is what Christ has said that you are to be born again. He didn’t mean some sort of an artificial baptism. He never meant that. How could He mean that? Logically, you must understand, that if He was Truth he would not tell that you can have a false baptism. But what He has said is that by this Spirit, your Spirit will be awakened. It means a person who has got his Spirit enlightened can enlighten another light… Or a candle which is already enlightened can enlighten another light. But what has it done? Nothing. It had the light, the other one was ready, so the light passes from one light to another. There is no obligation, there is no greatness about it, there’s nothing special done. So as far as you are concerned, we are all ready today to have your realization.

Many people I have met so far, in the West ‘specially, want to escape the Truth because they say that Mother, we have to cleanse ourselves. You go ahead with it. How many years you have been doing that, how many lives, how many ages? Now stop it. It’s finished now. Better have your enlightenment and then see how you can very nicely clean yourself and see what’s wrong with you. Moreover, it is very difficult to tell anyone, even if you see the dirt in a person, that this is dirty. It is better that… Supposing there’s something wrong with this shawl. I’d better take it out, see for myself what’s wrong with it and I can cleanse it. In the same way you have to get out of yourself, to see for yourself what’s wrong with you and that is how it will be much easier for you to clean if you know how to clean yourself. So you become the person who is the Spirit. The Spirit sees the defects in you and the Spirit guides you and cleanses you completely. There is no more guide needed or no gurus needed. You become your own guru.

So many kinds of people have come to sell their goods in the market. You cannot sell God and the one who lives on your earnings is a parasite. He cannot be a holy person or a saintly person. Christ did not take any money from people did He? He was born as a carpenter’s son and He worked as a carpenter’s son. But what is the purpose of His advent? What is the purpose of my coming to Boston is this: that we all deserve this higher state. It is all your own. It is your right. I should say I’m like a banker and I have to cash your checks.

The purpose of this happening is complete transformation. The transformation has to take place. What is the problem of the world today is a moral crisis. People are morally, absolutely fagged out, tired. They have lost all their discretion. They don’t know what to do; they are so confused whether this is true or that is true because we live in relative world. Everything is relative. This will do, that will do. Everybody’s compromising. They don’t know what is absolute because we have not achieved our absolute within ourselves. Now the most remarkable thing about the absolute, that is the Spirit, is that the absolute is the one that is collectively conscious. That’s the one that can feel another person. That’s the one which knows about everybody else. That’s the one which knows also about yourself. So far as a human being, the Spirit has not come into your consciousness. It’s not yet enlightened which means your consciousness hasn’t got the light of your Spirit. The Spirit is in your Heart and this Spirit is just watching you as a witness. It has not entered into your consciousness, into your attention, and because of that, you do not know what is absolute, what is collective consciousness.

When it happens to you, it happens in your awareness. It doesn’t happen in your mental conceptions. Like I can give you a big book to read and then you become something great? Your own consciousness, which is a human consciousness, becomes a higher consciousness, which becomes collectively conscious, meaning it is an actualization. Like a person who is a human being can feel the dirt and filth, the colors, the beauty, but an animal cannot. So something is happening in our consciousness, actually, that we can feel the filth. In the same way, when you become absolute, everything that is not absolute starts negating itself. It just disappears, and you become absolute yourself, which is the Truth. You become absolute joy and you become absolute consciousness.

So far, the consciousness has moved to the human stage in such a way that we have not felt that we have moved higher because we were not made like that. At the human stage only we are made in a special way. If you see here, as you can see it clearly, that from the left side there’s a blue balloon-like stuff rising. This blue thing is nothing but all of our conditioning which becomes what we call in Sanskrit as manasa, but very closely we can call it as super ego where we are conditioned: Don’t do this, don’t do that.

We are born, say, as Americans. [UNCLEAR How many it’s not true.]. You are a human being. God never created America. It is we who have created America, England, these things. He just created one beautiful world. So then you are Americans. Identification starts like that. Then you go ahead and you think we are Christians or Hindus or Muslims. Then you go ahead with that and all these misidentifications start accumulating within us and all of them form an artificial thing called as superego in your head. All the conditioning, all the possessions, all the opposition’s, all sorts of things that you gathered in many lives can be there called as superego.

On the other side we have got the ego, the one that we accumulate within ourselves or create within ourselves by our activity because we think we have done this, is the ego. Actually human beings cannot do anything. What they do is to explore whatever is dead. They cannot do living work. They cannot transfer even one flower into fruit. All this living work is done by someone. We do not think how we are created, how this beautiful human being is created. We haven’t got humility to understand that this something great has happened to us, that there is some sort of a force, some living force, some very kindly, loving force that has done this. We never even felt how we were created like that. Without any pains we are created as human beings.

This great living work that is happening within us, who has done this living work? How has it come? We have never felt that all-pervading Power of God that is doing all these things. Not only that but it sorts out things; it’s such a beautiful mechanism. Like a mango tree will give you mangoes. If it’s an ananas tree it will give you ananas [pineapple]. Like that you have all kinds of different sorting out to such an extent that your child will look like you. Who does all this sorting out? All this Power that does all the living work. The scientists also have not done their [UNCLEAR cases]. They’re honest but they’re not so educated, they’re not so well informed and their seeking is very limited because their brains are limited, their mental capacity is limited. If they have to go further, they have to become higher personalities to be able to see how we are created, how do we exist and how this living force acts.

Now, for us, as we take everything for granted. We do not even think about it which is a good thing. Otherwise, we might go mad thinking that we do not know about the Power that does the living work. So we have an idea that we do this work and that work. What do we do? Supposing a tree is dead we make this floor, church, this, that – all stones. It’s dead from the dead. We have just changed the forms from dead to the dead. What special thing have you done? When we start thinking that we have done something, that is how we develop an ego.

Like people in a village going in an airplane were told not to take too much luggage. They talked it’s better to reduce the weight of the plane, so they put the weight on their head, sitting in the plane. In the same way we are putting the weight on our heads, thinking that we have to do this job, that job. The one who has created you, the one who has made you a human being, is going to make you higher. Why do you take the load upon yourself? That’s why Mr. Ego sits on your head like a heavy weight, “I have to do this. I have to do that,” without understanding the plan of the Divine. That’s all we have, ego and superego sitting on our head, and we start feeling that we are something great. Now this happening has taken place within us because we are human beings. A dog doesn’t have responsibilities as such. Whatever he does he does through his responses through its superego. But human being has developed the ego and because of that his brain is closed now. He is like an egg.

Now this egg has been ‘specially made to become the bird and that transformation has to take place which is all built in within you. You have all these powers within you. It has just to be clicked and the warmth of the Love of the Divine has to work it out so that you become the bird of complete, absolute freedom. This is what Christ wanted to inform us by His resurrection and when we have Easter you know that we have eggs. The egg is suggesting that you are the egg today but on an Easter Christ, as He became the bird, you also become the birds. And so we should say the time has come for all of you to become the birds.

But it is impossible for human beings because they’re such made, I don’t know how, especially in the West, to understand that there could be somebody who is genuinely interested in the well-being of others. They cannot understand because of their relative ideas. They cannot understand that there should be someone who should do this job; who should communicate with people who are seekers, to give them their Truth and to give them their transformation, to put them up on their consciousness as realized souls.

Now, actually, in the movement of consciousness, when human beings were born, they started sorting out everything on mental level and whatever works on a mental level works out in a linear manner. There is no sustenance in that. If something starts moving in a linear way it falls off, again recoils back. That’s why today we are shocked. We have evolved so much, we have developed so much, we are supposed to be developed people, and then how is it we are on the brink of a shock? Why are you so upset? What has gone wrong with us? Where did we go wrong? Because we tried to solve all our problems through mental efforts.

Anything – take your politics, take your economics – is nothing but a mental effort. For example, economics says that wants, in general, are not satiable. That means there must be some wants that are satiable and we live in the relative wants which are not satiable. Now what is that want which is absolute, which will satisfy us? And that want is represented here at this triangular bone. In the triangular bone you can see the Kundalini that is the pure desire within you, the pure desire to be one with the Divine. Unless and until that desire manifests, all your wants will be changing from one to another. Like today, you would like to have a house, tomorrow you would like to have a car and day after tomorrow something else, then a helicopter, then an aeroplane – you can go on like that.

But actually to have all your wants satisfied there is one want which is kept sleeping, as they say, because it has not manifested in the triangular bone which is to be awakened, which is to be manifested. Now, just imagine this bone is called as sacrum. It means Greeks also knew that it is a sacred bone. That is why they call it as sacrum. You can see the rising of the Kundalini, you can see the pulsation of the Kundalini, you can feel the pulsation of the Kundalini like, “Lub, dub, lub, dub,” as the Heart is. In some people it is quite a lot and then you can feel the cool breeze coming out of your head.

Now what is this Kundalini within us? The Spirit is in your Heart but what about the Kundalini? She is the Holy Ghost. She is the representation or the reflection of the Holy Ghost. But if you ask anybody else they say, “No, we don’t know about Holy Ghost. It’s a mystery.” In Sahaja Yoga, nothing is a mystery. Everything can be explained. Now what is the Holy Ghost? The Holy Ghost is the primordial Mother. But people never talked about Mother. They talked of the Father and the Son. Imagine, a father and a son and no mother. It is absurd. Have you seen any father and a son without a mother? Such an absurd situation comes in that people accepted because it’s all mental. Somebody tells you, “No, it’s a mystery, there’s no Mother,” and people accepted it.

But there has to be a Mother and this is the time of Aquarius what we call in Sanskrit as Kumbha, meaning the Aquarius which is the Kundalini, where She nourishes, where She cures you, She redeems you, She guides you, counsels you – and this is the time of the Mother. We had the time of the Father, then of the Son, and now this is the time of the Mother where She has to nourish you, where She has to take you to your ultimate goal that is the Spirit.

The consciousness itself, the way we have been moving in other directions, have been like people think that if a woman starts fighting for her life and then she’s asserting the femininity. She’s not. What I’m saying is not meant for women or men. It is meant for every one of us, that we have to become like a mother. Like a Divine Mother, like a person who can nourish people, who can give them love, affection, attention, perseverance, forebearing. This is only possible for a mother to do it and that motherhood should be awakened in every human being. I would say Abraham Lincoln you had was a great person like that. After that also we have had so many great people in this world who have been like that. In our country we had Mahatma Gandhi. We had many people of that temperament who were soothing, nourishing, curing and helping others in such a way as a mother would like to nourish her own children.

So the sense of nourishment has to come within us but we have no power of nourishment and that only comes when your Spirit starts manifesting through you. When this Power rises, She manifests Her power of nourishment. She actually nourishes your chakras, She’s the one who nourishes those subtle centers which look after the gross centers, She’s the one who cures, She is the one who guides because She informs you what’s wrong with you and She’s the one who councils you. Because once you become collectively conscious then you start feeling the cool breeze in your hand and this becomes like a computer. You become a computer of which you become the master.

You are already a computer, if you understand, because in a computer if you put something in it, it cannot just see and say, it has to think. But we can just see and say things. As soon as you see, we know what it is. So we are already a wonderful computer, which no scientist can produce. But we become even conscious of that computer and become master of that computer so that we know everything about whatever is not known to us unknown. All absolute problems can be asked and we can find out what’s wrong with you.

But it is not that the consciousness moves like a pendulum. Like a woman fighting a man and becoming egoistical and fighting and shouting and then behaving like a man. Or a man becoming like a woman. It’s a pendulum. But you move in a spiral way to rise higher and that higher point you start seeing the things. Like a spring has a spiral you have seen and it has a sustenance within it. It’s not linear. When the spring loses its sustenance it has become linear. Like in the peptones in the pancreas are all spiraling… and human beings, though they have created so many peptones with all kinds of amino acids and all that put into it, they are not even five percent equal to what natural peptones we have. But we make them linear by our wrong doing and then the peptones become linear and they lose their biological effects because they become lifeless.

In the same way our ascent takes place in a spiral way and rises higher than ones [UNCLEAR gravity]. It doesn’t move like a pendulum: a man becoming a woman, a woman becoming like a man. But what happens is you develop a higher consciousness and in that higher consciousness you start understanding that now you have become the light.

Now what is the light? Still you have to make the light, you work hard, you put it right. But once the light is made, you put it on top. So it guides. Then it becomes the guru, it becomes the guiding factor. It becomes everything. That’s how you become.

So we have got the left side of desire and the right side of action. These left side and right side of action can be compared with the brake and the accelerator in a car, to understand it on a very gross example. What happens that when we start learning how to drive, we get into the car, we use both these powers, trying to balance ourselves, first of all. To balance the car is very important and when we have learned how to use these two forces, then we think we have become drivers. At that time, we do it automatically. We don’t think about it.

That’s what happens to you that first, when Kundalini rises above this center, you become thoughtlessly aware. That means there is no thought, but we are completely aware and alert. And when this light is from here, here is the seat of the Spirit though the seat resides in human beings in the Heart. When it touches the seat of the Spirit then the master who’s sitting at the back seat watching you, you become the master and you start watching these two forces within you, how it is acting and also the driver [UNCLEAR bidding] and you become the master. This is the second stage into which you arrive.

Now when we become thoughtlessly aware what happens is that a thought rises and falls off and another thought rises and falls off and in the center of the two thoughts is a little area. These thoughts may arise from the future or from the past and the central part is the present. So when the Kundalini rises what happens is that you’ve become stationed in the present where there is no thought. If I say you stand on the present you cannot be because we are on the future or on the past because there were thoughts. But when the thoughts are removed you stand in the center of those two thoughts and you’ve become thoughtlessly aware.

This state is such a wonderful state that at that time whatever you see becomes a picture memory, not only as a memory, but the joy of creation starts pouring into you. You start understanding the joy of creation and lots of powers you start manifesting that at this time you can cure people, you can heal them – physically, maybe mentally also.

But that’s not enough. In that also you should not get lost. Some people do it by some other forces which are spirit. What they do is to put some spirits into a person, take out some spirits, transfer some spirits they do. This is absolutely a different area into which we don’t have to go. We have to do everything which is complete Spirit, ourselves masters, knowing everything about what you are doing. We are never under the blanket, no doubt. You see everything, what you are doing, what you are getting, these powers that are flowing through your hand, you know what exactly they mean. They are all recorded for you, you don’t have to research it and you can only verify it.

Like the gentleman who got his realization from me and then he said, “Mother, I can’t believe I can be collectively conscious because you see the brains here are working a bit too much, The Heart is less, the brain is too much. There’s an imbalance between the Heart and the brain.

So I said, “All right, try with your brain. By asking you can verify.”

He said. “I want to find out: How is my father?”

I said, “All right, you just put your hands like this and try to find out how is your father.”

So he says, “Mother, I’m getting a very great heat here and burning and a very funny feeling here.

So I said, “All right, if that is so, these are all the centers that are indicating your father and if it is in this finger you are feeling, then you must know that he must be down with very bad bronchitis because this finger denotes this center here.”

So he telephoned his father in my place and his mother came to the phone and she said he is down with very bad bronchitis – The same sentence she used. So that’s how you can feel it. You must know that in the realm of God we are really fantastic. We have to become the citizen of God’s realm. Then only be amazed that He has the greatest capacity, that you cannot imagine how dynamically it works.

There have been so many incidents in Sahaja Yoga that people can tell you sometimes how miracles after miracles have taken place which they cannot explain how it has worked. Not miracles like getting a diamond and giving it. One should understand that those people who go after diamonds are not the people who are seeking God. They want diamonds they can get it in the market. Some people who start jumping, they think they have become godly. How can it be? Are you going to become frogs now?

We should understand also logically what is going to happen to us, that we are going to be empowered by a power which we should know how to handle. Otherwise no use doing all these tricks these days people are doing. Some peoples are just jumping, some start shouting, screaming, some becoming dogs, some becoming like a lion. You are not to go to your subconscious because God has placed so beautifully. Your subconscious is on the left hand side and your right side is your future. So there is a room kept for you in the center, like you have made a home here, like there was a room there.

But the idea of the psychologists here was so confused that some of the Indians maybe have taken a little clue from that, and they have come here to take you down to subconscious, which is the easiest thing to do is to take down to your subconscious. That’s what they have done. They have mesmerized people, started these cults and these false gurus have come and they are just doing nothing but taking you to your subconscious where you get caught up and possessed by the collective subconscious, and you think you are in the best position but you don’t know where you are moving. You have no idea.

So the best thing for us is to see what we get ourselves, what we know ourselves. Some people have given six thousand, some people have given fifteen thousand. For what are you giving money? It is something I can’t understand. I came about ten years back to your great country, America, and they couldn’t understand me when I said you cannot pay money for this and they threw me out. They wouldn’t take me seriously. They said, “Oh, what are you talking? It’s nonsense. How can you do some things without money?” So this is what it is. But I think after ten years of good lashing from these people they have learned a lesson now. They’re coming around and now they have been kind to me. So you must understand one has to be humble about it. It’s only the ego that makes you think that you can purchase God, that you can organize Him, that you can organize God, organize religion, organize all that is Divine. You cannot organize, as I told you, the changing of one flower into a fruit. Then it is too much to think that you can organize thought. We must humble down within ourselves and that’s how it works out. It has worked in thousands and should work out everywhere. I’m sure in Boston also it should work out.

But there are categories and categories of people that I must admit. For example, Steve, I must say, is a special category. He met me only once in Bristol. One program he had come, just as all you have come, then he came to see me next day. [UNCLEAR] he met me only once and then he said he has to go to Boston. I said, “A very good idea. Go to Boston and I hope I meet you there.”

When I came to America two years back he just sent me a telegram. He said, “Mother, I’m in Boston. When you come here we’ll have a program.”

He was occupying a small little room and sweetly he invited me there and I said, “All right, I’m going to Boston.”

People said, “Mother, you don’t know him very well.”

I said, “I know him very well. I’m going.” I came here and we had a program in Boston and today because of the quality of people who are running it, we have a nice proper center where now many people can get their realization and settle down. But there are categories of very egoistical people also, of very funny people. Like some people in the church came to hit me with the Bible. You can imagine in the church they came to hit me with the Bible and no other place and all such people are there.

But those people who are of that category are the best who get their realization in no time and settle down. Some people have physical problems and that’s why also they cannot get realization. But the people who have been to false gurus and have bent their heads before them also are very difficult. They have to be a little bit patient with them, first of all, to neutralize the effects of this falsehood and then they get realization. But some of them – I was amazed the other day in Toronto – I gave realization to some people who have been to those gurus and they just threw away everything because they had reached the right conclusion that they had not found the Truth and they had just thrown away everything apart and they got their realization, too.

So we have people and people. We have people who come into Sahaja Yoga all soft and then they become very violent, very hot tempered, they are not so well organized and you find that their temperament doesn’t look like a realized soul. But all kinds of people come to Sahaja Yoga and the negative people will always see the people who are at the lower end and see them and start criticizing or, “Look at him. He’s a sahaja yogi.” A sahaja yogi is a person who has achieved a balance in them, a person who has achieved a mastery over Kundalini, the one who has all the knowledge how to raise the Kundalini and how to give realization. A sahaja yogi is not every Tom, Dick and Harry. This one, one should understand, but everybody is allowed to come to Sahaja Yoga. We have all kinds of people, all types of people. But the sahaja yogis are a special category who mature like a seed which is just sprouted, has to be looked after very tenderly, carefully, respectfully and then it grows into a big tree and when it becomes the tree nobody has to be told, you don’t have to tell them by oath that this is a tree. Everyone knows this is a tree.

So this is how it works out: Those people who are positive about it get it into their heads, first of all, and then into their Hearts. I’m sure it will work out even here and there are so many people here it should work out with all of you. I didn’t know that the program is only for two days. In any case, two days I’ll be here, that is today and tomorrow. In the short time whatever is possible I’ve tried to cover. The knowledge is like an ocean. But you become the knowledge which I’ll tell you how you’ll become the knowledge and you don’t have to listen to too many lectures to understand me. But as far as I am concerned I’ve been lecturing and lecturing for the last ten years and in London if you see there are thousands of lectures of mine which you can see for yourself.

This happens much better in a place where people are not so complicated. Thousands of them can get realization. People who are here have seen thousands of Indian villagers get their realization. But maybe people are much more oppressed by the modern society, modern ideas. Maybe that they take a little time to grow, but doesn’t matter. You are people of great adventure and people of great qualities. You are saintly people, you are men of God who are born in these countries, all over. Even in England I saw so many people who are men of God and as William Blake* has said that, Men of God will become prophets, and they will have powers to make others prophets.” That’s what you have to have. So many of you are saints. That’s why you are born in such a nice country like America. It’s such a highly blessed country. Is such a great, beautiful country and then you have to make the best out of it.

May God bless you.

If you have any questions, you can ask me.

Seeker: I would like to know God and I do pray to Him and what you said right there that this is the Christ center here. How long would it take for me to know Him?

Shri Mataji: Split of a second. It will happen in a split of a second, no doubt. But nothing is guaranteed. You cannot say if all the seeds will sprout at the same time, but it is guaranteed that it will ultimately. There is no time for God. God does not know time. Any other questions?

Seeker: After you get your enlightenment, your Self realization and you start to get integrated, what happens to you after physical death?

Shri Mataji: You should not be futuristic. Why do you want to think of that time when I’m talking of life? I’ve given a big lecture on that. You can take a tape and hear about it, but just now we’re talking about life, not about death. You are a realized soul. If you want, you can take your birth again, do what you like. You are a free bird after your death. There’s nothing like death after that, because you entered into a realm where there is no death. You know you are dying and changing this body and you can take the body again. It’s a very different awareness.

Seeker: Do you need faith to know God?

Shri Mataji: Not at all. You see faith, if it means blind faith, on the contrary, it’s very dangerous. Those people who have blind faith are very dangerous people because they are really bound to a certain mental aspect of it. They are bound to some sort of a mental conception, that this is God, this is God, this is God, is wrong. But you must have an open mind. Even if you deny, then it’s not proper because you keep your mind open. It is like sunshine. If you are facing the sunshine you will be affected by sunshine, but if you hide yourself from sunshine, the sunshine is not going to run after.

Seeker: Who taught you your technique, that you need a light to light another light?

Shri Mataji: You better know me when you are enlightened. I don’t want to talk about myself. The trouble is, Christ just said that He was the Son of God, and they crucified Him. That’s a fact. He was. But I don’t want to talk about myself till you have your enlightenment. When you have your enlightenment, then you will know about me. You better have your light first, and then you’ll know me. Otherwise, it’s difficult. I’m tactful in this lifetime. I don’t want to get crucified.

Seeker: If you’ve had an operation on your lower back where the Kundalini is and there is pain all the time can you still have enlightenment?

Shri Mataji: Yes, you can. you’ll have to put it right. So many people have got realization even if their back is broken. First, their back is put right and they feel all right and then they get the Kundalini rising. It’s not difficult. It’s a repairing system, it repairs you. But if something is dead in you, supposing you put some steel sticks into your legs, we can’t remove it. If it is a dead stuff inside, we cannot help you, but if it is a living machinery, it gets repaired.

Seeker: When the Kundalini rises, does it maintain that position or does it ever go down again?

Shri Mataji: That’s true, it goes down also, in many people. It goes down, it comes up and goes down. The reason why it goes down is because it comes in a flood. Because it faces me, knows me. It comes up like a flood and then it goes down because you need nourishment in different centers. Supposing you have a problem somewhere. It goes and nourishes you. Then again it nourishes. Very sweetly comes up again. But if you know, once you have touched this and it has come out of it and if you know how to raise it again and again, you can bring it up.

That’s what you have to learn after realization and that is called as shuddha vidya. It means the true knowledge of divine activity. Once you know that it’s very simple. You have to use only your hand. Like this you have to move it and bring it up. You have to give yourself a balance a little bit only because it’s flowing through your hands, that’s all and you can manage. It’s not difficult. You can establish it. A little bit in the beginning, about a month, you’ll have to work it out, but not all. I’m saying, just a few people really get it, like you can say, Steve was like that. He got it.

Seeker: Is all of this really happening? Is this real?

Shri Mataji: Yeah. It is too fantastic to believe. It is happening. It has to happen sometime. God who has created this creation, He is worried and He has to look after his creation, isn’t it ? He’s anxious. It has to happen. After all, we are not responsible for this creation. He has created it, so He has to jolly well look after it. It’s happening. You can’t believe it, isn’t it? It will work out. Have faith in yourself, that’s all. You must have faith in yourself and nothing else, yes.

Seeker: While doing Sahaja Yoga technique, which I have been taught. Is it okay to be like a worshipper of Jesus Christ, will that interfere in any way? And also wanna how about like, I’m a musician and the practice of my music, can that be like Bhakti Yoga, will that, I mean can I use that as a meditation? 

Shri Mataji: Of course, of course but you become discreet after that. You start understanding the music which is good for your spirit, which is not good for you, your spirit. And you become dynamic, dynamic. I mean, you know about Indian music, something? Indian music.

 So many Indian musicians have got realization and after realization they have become absolutely tremendous. So you become tremendous but you become discreet there. You start understanding what music will really give joy of the spirit and you start playing. And the joy of the spirit is the main thing people are seeking that’s eternal music because all other types of music comes up and goes down but only the one that gives joy reminds eternally. All like those, Mozart. Mozart was a realized soul and his music gives joy to the spirit because you start feeling the vibrations when you hear him. Like artists also we can say Michelangelo was a realized soul. When you see his paintings in the Sistine Chapel, you see. You have been to Rome. You start feeling the vibrations from that. 

Warren: He asked another half of the question. Can he remain worshipping the Lord Jesus Christ, once he gains his realization? 

Shri Mataji: Of course Lord Jesus Christ plays a very great importance but you must understand him in a full way, you should not just take it from the Bible because the bible cannot contain Christ, it’s only three and half years of His age is there. There are so many books which have described Him and you have to see what He is really, what importance he has. I wish people would have gone out of the Bible and seen what a great person He is. Today, you’ll be surprised by people like Jews, who believe in Christ very much, Muslims believe in Christ very much, much more than Christians can believe because they are realized souls and they know what’s his position in realization. 

Seeker: I would like to know more about the hands, you were speaking of – I guess senses on the hands? 

Shri Mataji: That is all written down in the book, you will understand that these are five centers, six and seven centers in the left hand side and the same way on the right hand side but what they do not answer in the book is there. And we give the books after you have got realization, not before that. Because before that if I give the book again you will go into mental projections. You see, so we are treating you in this way, that first you get your realization then only the first book is given because if you give the last book, it’s too much for you to bear. So the first book you have to read and digest it like that you have to grow really in Sahaja Yoga you have to become, there is no other interest. That you have to become so we gradually sort of make you understand it so that you can digest it.

Seeker: If you’re a person who can’t say see things but has visions when you come under realization, will that go away or will it be stronger or will it stay or what?

Shri Mataji: Visions are not all right. You should not see visions. That means you’re not normal. You’re on the right hand side.

The other day we had one boy who used to see auras and visions. But he told me his head is heavy all the time and that he doesn’t feel all right and we had to remove that because you must see the present, the reality as it is. At the time of Christ, people started seeing visions of Moses. But Christ was there living with them every night and they were thinking of Moses and Abraham. What about Christ who was living. Now today I am here and now you will think you are taking visions of Christ. What about me? I am here in the present. So you have to be in the present, not in the future or in the past. But when you see visions it could be from the past or from the future.

Like in India people see visions and they have their own visions of the devis and goddesses and all that and then they deny everything. They say that no, how are we to believe in Christ or his Mother or anything? But when they come to the present they understand that they were all there. They are there in the present. Because you become one side.

Vision is not a normal thing. It’s not very good and those people who see visions end up into very bad life because it’s not normal. You will know gradually, how you see visions also, what happens to you. But after realization, you just come in the center.

Seeker: In Sahaja Yoga, does the Kundalini go beyond the crown chakra?

Shri Mataji: Of course, it can go beyond, much beyond. But it depends on you seeing how you are. It has to grow. It is for the complete growth of a person. There are three centers above that which you have to cross. There are some people who have crossed it, no doubt. But they are a very assiduous. Also they are a category – there are so many things about them, the quality itself. You can ascend much more. The seventh chakra is just the beginning.

Seeker: I have a couple of books, one by Yogananda and one by Sri Ramakrishna. I would like to know if they were false prophets.

Shri Mataji: I don’t want to talk about personal things. I don’t want to shock you about things, but you yourself will find out. You get your enlightenment, yourself you can find out what is false, what is real. If they’re real, then you’ll start getting the cool breeze in the hands. If they are false, then you’ll get even blisters in the hands. So one has to understand what is real and unreal by one’s own understanding. When you discover it then you’ll know that.

Hatha Yoga is just a wee bit of real Patanjali’s Hatha Yoga, and it’s absolutely wrong because it makes you very one sided. You become physically attentive, but you are not only a physical being, you are a mental being, you are emotional, you are also a spiritual being. So this is just such a wee bit. If you see the book of Patanjali’s it’s so great, and in that all Sahaja Yoga is written, Why they have taken only the – just like jogging it is. Just another style of jogging.

So should we have now the realization? There’s a lady there? Now, that’s the last, eh?

Seeker: After death how soon does the soul return to a body?

Yogi: She answered the question about death by saying, “Put the attention to the present, not to the future.”

Shri Mataji: Just now is not important. I’ll tell you all about it. I think you come and see me and I’ll tell you all about it, all right? Because just now, we don’t want to spoil the minds of people with the death and all this nonsense. Just now, let us be in the present.

Seeker: Can I ask one last question? 

Shri Mataji: Now, ask.

Seeker: Beyond the crown chakra is it still the Kundalini that’s at work? Or is it another power too? 

Shri Mataji: Well the Kundalini itself because she is the primordial mother, she’s the primordial, she’s the primordial. You see, must understand she’s the Adi Shakti, she’s the primordial mother and she works throughout. She is the witness to the last (unclear). So she works throughout, I mean there’s nobody else who works it out but because you’re enlightened you do much faster, you’re accelerated. At that point you are accelerated because of your enlightenment. That acceleration takes place much faster. 

To look at it, looks like Kundalini but it is complete Aum. It is a complete force, the reflection of the divine love of God which is the Power of God, complete. Because God Himself separates from His Power. And becomes the spectator and the Power of God divides itself into three. And becomes the creation and the whole thing is the Kundalini, is the Kundalini is as they call residual because she manifests all that but still she’s complete. She’s complete and then she reflects this, so throughout she works it out. Of course in you is the reflection of that primordial Kundalini. It’s a form of the primordial Mother. She becomes that form. Say now I’m your teacher but also I am a wife, I’m grandma. In the same way she becomes the Kundalini.

Tomorrow again we will meet here. That’s the last day I’ll be with you, please try to telephone to your friends tomorrow and get their friends as many as possible because I don’t know when I’ll come back again. So try to get them, they should all get their realization and I hope the day after tomorrow we might be able to at least have a workshop and show how to make you understand the Sahaja Yoga, how to work it out and everything. Hope to again on Friday. So tomorrow please start to call your friends, it is their right to have to have it, they should be here. If they had come, they would have got it and then the growth would start. Now go home, don’t talk to anyone, do not argue, this cannot be argued some people haven’t got it, supposedly they start arguing. Do not argue it out, just go home, have your food and sleep on, enjoy, you feel very much better tomorrow. I’m back here and I’ll be able to explain to you some other things about chakras and things. And if you have any questions, I’d ask you. 

May God bless you.

*(about William Blake)