TV Interview “Success stories with Janet Turner”. Los Angeles (USA), 1983.
Reporter: The Academy award-wining Movie about Gandhi, made many Americans aware of the great work this man accomplished in India. My next guest worked with Gandhi but she is here in America now to help us find what she calls “Self-realization” Stay tuned! I think you are going to find this very interesting. Her name is Shri Mataji.
Reporter: Did I say it OK?
Shri Mataji: It’s good. [laughter]
Reporter: It’s actually longer than that! But we are not even going to try that. [laughter]
I just got to ask, was Gandhi anything like the actor who portrayed him in the movie?
Shri Mataji: Oh! Very much. Very well done. The only thing was the style of talking of Gandhi was rather more Indian. This fellow was over brilliant, I think.
Reporter: Over brilliant?
Shri Mataji: And he would answer everything in such an alert way, and Gandhi ji was a very slow speaker. That’s it.
Reporter: It took little longer to come out.
Shri Mataji: Yes. That’s it, you see.
Reporter: But they portrayed him so perfect like a saint. Is that true?
Shri Mataji: Yes, you see, they have done it very well. And the lady who has worked it out, I know her very well. She is a very intelligent lady who did all the dress up and all that. She is very intelligent woman.
Reporter: They chose her well. Wasn’t there anything that ever got him angry or?
Shri Mataji: No, he used to be very angry. That’s a wrong conception. He used to be very angry with the people who would make money and cheat others and would not be sincere. He used to be very outspoken about it. Very outspoken.
Reporter: He had lots of good things to say. What exactly did you do with him?
Shri Mataji: You see, I was little child of seven years when I stayed with him. He was very fond of me and he used to call me Nepali. Because of my face had some ‘Nepali features’. And actually, he found out that I was a very different type of a child. And sometimes, he used to discuss with me some things which we would not discuss with a child of seven years. Like, he would ask me, “What should I put for my prayers? Which should be the first? And the second, which one should come second?” Like he knew that I knew something about the spiritual life.
Reporter: Isn’t that interesting?
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Reporter: Well, that’s all what we’re going to talk about. First, I think we should start at the beginning. Explain what you mean by Self-realization?
Shri Mataji: You see, within us is placed the reflection of God Almighty, which is the Self, which is the Spirit, which is placed in your heart. Now when Christ or anybody has said that, “You are to be born again”, it was not any sort of artificial type of baptism. But it was the real happening within us of a power which is placed in the sacrum bone to rise and to get you connected with the whole. So, this is what, when it happens, then you become actually first connected to your Spirit which is connected to the whole. And that’s how you get connected to the whole primordial Being.
Reporter: Do you have to understand yourself first?
Shri Mataji: Me, myself, No.
Reporter: No. You just-
Shri Mataji: I knew it.
Reporter: But if somebody at home is watching. What is the first step?
Shri Mataji: It is spontaneous. It is not mental projection. It just happens automatically. It’s something like a candle which is not yet enlightened, can be enlightened by another light or another enlightened candle. It’s just like that. So, you don’t have to anything. You are just ready. if they put their hands towards me, even now, just watching me, they will start feeling a kind of a cool breeze in their hands blowing. And that is the thing that has happened.
Reporter: Ok, what do you suggest? What should they do?
Shri Mataji: They just put your hands towards me like this. Now you are a very hard-working lady, and futuristic. So, your right hand is more active and the left is less. So, what you have to do is to put left up there. And the right, we’ll start working. [Shri Mataji is clearing her right hand]. Now another thing you have to do, is to forgive people.
Reporter: Oh Yes! I know that.
Shri Mataji: And that’s the thing is lacking a little bit. You must forgive. Because it is a myth when we say, “We don’t forgive”. What do we do? We really torture ourselves, don’t we? The other person, whom we don’t forgive, doesn’t feel anything bad about it. On the contrary, you are playing into the hands of that person. Isn’t it?
Shri Mataji: So, it’s a myth. Just you have to forgive and then you’ll start feeling the cool breeze in the hand. That’s the All-pervading Power.
Shri Mataji: You started, yes.
Reporter: And people at home, what would they feel?
Shri Mataji: Yes, they would also feel the same way. They will also feel the cool breeze coming out of their heads. That’s what happens.
Reporter: [While checking above her head] Well, not in this room. But I- Oh, yes!
Shri Mataji: Yes! It’s there. It’s from within.
Reporter: Oh, this is spooky!
All right so, but how do you use it? All right, so say.
Shri Mataji: So now, you have become the Spirit. Now, you manifest your own power. Like the gentleman who was here before was saying, “I must know myself”. But you don’t know who you are, what you are. Now by this now, you will know that you are made up of a very fine instrument within yourself. And you have got seven very subtle centres you see, which work out in two ways.
First of all, you will know what’s the problem within you. Because, on your fingertips, you will start feeling the problem and I can decode it by saying that there are seven centres: one, two, three, four, five, six and seven.
All right? And on this hand, the same way. Now, this is the hand of emotional side and this is the hand of your mental and physical side. Now if you have any physical problem, you can feel it on your fingertips. Now if you know how to solve it, it’s all right. Done! Any disease, anything are nothing but the permutations and the combinations of these centres going to the extreme or being exhausted. Or some sort of a damage done to these centres. But when this force rises, she nourishes them. It’s the Mother, it’s the feminine within us, which rises, which nourishes, which soothes, which gives you that peace.
Reporter: So, let’s take this little bit more practically.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Reporter: OK, I will tell, I have had a little bit of kidney problem.
Shri Mataji: You have, I know.
Reporter: Well, what will I do about that?
Shri Mataji: It’s very simple, you see. You put your hands like this, towards me now. Your kidney problem comes from the centre called “Swadishthana.” now you will feel a little bit here [Shri Mataji points the thumb] See, even you can see virtually, see this looks healthy [right thumb] this does not look that healthy. Don’t you see so?
Reporter: What am I looking for?
Shri Mataji: You see, you are looking for- you feel a little, see, this swelling and you feel a little heat there. Do you feel a little heat there when you are getting the cool breeze?
Shri Mataji: You see, that’s the heat that suggests you. Now this also is suggesting. Even this kidney is not all right (pointing towards her left hand) but (again back to the right sw. On her hand) this centre deals with kidney and other organs like liver, deals with your pancreas, with your spleen and part of your intestines; uterus also. So, you see, you must know how to make them out. Now what you have to do is to -at this centre is a deity what we call is the creator. The creator is sitting on this one. So, you have to request the creator that he should now cure you. That’s what we call as the mantras. Now, because you are connected, you can ask. Before that…
Reporter: Is it basically just asking God?
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course! Of course! It is an aspect of the God.
Reporter: Is it just like saying a prayer?
Shri Mataji: Of course. But when you say a prayer, you are not connected. Now you are connected. Now, you should know where are these deities are placed? Where is Christ? Where is Moses? Where is Abraham? All of them are placed within ourselves and how they denote here. (Shri Mataji pointing towards her hand) Now you are connected, and now if you ask, they will help you. That’s how you cure people without much trouble.
Reporter: One thing I wasn’t quite sure, how was I connected?
Shri Mataji: Because now the thing has started flowing in your hand. That’s the proof. Now here. (Shri Mataji again brings her hand to the top of her head. Pushes her Sahasrara and massages it gently.)
Reporter: Oh! Because, I believed.
Shri Mataji: No, no, no. There is nothing to believe. It is within you that power. It is all spontaneous, it rises. It’s a living process of a living God. That’s all. You have to become that. You see, this is not a mental projection. Now, the women think that if they become the men they will be all right. The men think they have to become the women, it’s all like pendulum moving like this. Actually, in your spiritual ascent, you move spirally at a higher level. You come up. And that higher level is where you become the Spirit. And you become aware, you become a different personality. It’s a transformation but in the beginning….
You have to go slow, establish it, understand it then you start manifesting your own powers.
Reporter: Ok. Say, tomorrow you’ll be gone. You will be gone tomorrow. So, what do I do to get it back?
Shri Mataji: All right. For that, we have a center here. In Los Angeles, luckily, I have been here thrice now. I came in 1970, but they wouldn’t listen to me. They said, “I must take some money”, how many Rolls-Royces I’ve got, all sorts of things you see. I was amazed you see…
Reporter: I know. Shri Mataji does not ask for any money. At all.
Shri Mataji: How can you pay? What can you pay? Just now, it happened to you how much will you pay me for this? It’s absurd. Isn’t it? It’s a living process. You don’t pay any money to the Mother Earth for sprouting a seed. Do you? It’s absurd. It’s illogical. But I don’t know why people are so much enamoured by that. It’s a thing, they think they can purchase a guru. They can purchase God. They can organize God. We have to be humble.
Reporter: Ah!! We have to be humble. Yes. That’s important, and you- well that means you don’t always put yourself first, right?
Shri Mataji: Yes, I mean, you must-
Reporter: Do for others.
Shri Mataji: ask. You just ask for it. You just have to ask for it. It works out. But before this, if you try to do this say, for example like a missionary work or anything. It is all outside. And it drops out in no time. But now supposing, people say, “Mother, thank you very much for curing me” and so I just laugh! Because, you see, this is just like my finger being sick. Who is the other? Now my finger is sick, so I rub my own finger and there is no obligation. Neither, I feel, they should feel obliged because if you are part and parcel of me, nobody is the other. Because you become collectively conscious. You become. Again, I say, it’s an actualization. It is not just talking. It just happens to you. Because you are just ready and you get it.
Reporter: Hmm. OK. And I read an article where you told the reporter not to think so much. Do Americans tend to think too much?
Shri Mataji: Oh!! Too much. Too much to think, but it stops. Because, you see, a thought rises and falls off another thought rises and falls off. Either you live in the past or in the future. More futuristic, Americans are more futuristic. But some can live with the past and some can live with the future. Now, in between that thought, there is a little gap. And that gap widens when this force rises. And you stay in the present. And then the dynamism of the present you see, you see the whole thing just like a new dimension within you. And you start enjoying every part of it.
Reporter: Hmm. Well, it’s fascinating. It’s- I don’t know if we really were able to cover it. I mean, to say enough for people to really understand.
Shri Mataji: It’s a very wide subject.
Reporter: It is.
Shri Mataji: And I have, must have spoken, at least, thousand lectures must be there in London. And so many thousand. But the main thing is that when you become that you become yourself the knowledge. You yourself know everything. Like, once I was travelling with a gentleman on a bullock cart and the fellow was just uneducated. And he started talking like a prophet. Like a saint! I was so surprised. The whole knowledge was within him and he started saying like that.
Reporter: Well, thank you very much for being with us.
Shri Mataji: Thank you. May God Bless you. Thank you very much.
Reporter: We are going to give you an address, if you would like further information. Here’s what you can write for Shri Mataji (then the address appears on the screen for California)
It’s a rather interesting concept to think that we have a lot of power within ourselves to heal ourselves and to solve our own problems. I think that’s what basically what we were saying here. Well, thanks so much for being with us tonight. Remember until next time, the only real success is living the life which you have imagined.